Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 5th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Western]

The Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill delivers on this Government’s manifesto commitment to safeguard public money and ensure that every single pound is wisely spent. Fraud against the public sector is not a victimless crime. It takes money away from vital public services, eroding trust and harming innocent people. The Bill introduces new powers to enable the Public Sector Fraud Authority to investigate and deal with public sector fraud outside of the tax and social security system, using its expertise to act on behalf of other parts of Government.

The Bill also contains new powers for the Department for Work and Pensions to tackle fraud and error within the social security system, providing much-needed modernisation for our defences. At the same time, it includes significant safeguards, including new independent oversight to ensure the proportionate and effective use of the powers. As we now reach the final stages of the Bill, I am sure colleagues across the House will agree that it needs to receive Royal Assent as quickly as possible, so that we can realise the delivery of the estimated £1.5 billion of benefits by 2029-30.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill forward and for all the hard work that the Government have done in relation to this. There is one thing that always concerns me. In my office, nearly every week I have people come to me who have inadvertently made mistakes. They perhaps do not understand how the online system works or how the paperwork has to be filled in, and sometimes they have ticked the wrong box and found themselves in a difficult position. This does not take away from those who deliberately defraud and try to get money that they should not be receiving. How can we be absolutely sure that those who make inadvertent mistakes will not find themselves in a difficult position alongside those who have done wrong? How can we ensure that they get the sympathy they need? I know that the Minister will be of the same opinion as me that we must make sure this is done right.

[Andrew Western]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that it is enshrined elsewhere in legislation that claimant error is recoverable as part of universal credit. I can also assure him that, as part of this Bill, the eligibility verification measure will enable us to identify errors that are legitimate as well as illegitimate—deliberate, shall we say—in order to minimise the level of debt for individuals who have, I accept, done this accidentally and ensure that they are caught earlier. Any overpayments will be smaller as a direct consequence. One advantage of the Bill is that it can minimise suffering for people who have inadvertently made a mistake.

Before I turn to the Lords amendments, I thank my noble Friends Baroness Anderson and Baroness Sherlock who expertly guided the Bill through the other place. I share their appreciation for all the peers who contributed to its detailed scrutiny and their invaluable insights that have helped the Government to strengthen the Bill.

The Government made important changes to the Bill in the other place, and I now ask this House to endorse those Government amendments. They were made to ensure that the Bill delivers its aims and to clarify the operation of the powers, as well as to ensure that the safeguards this Government have introduced are strong and effective. More procedural yet still important amendments have been made to part 2 to reflect the Scottish Government’s position on how the powers should be applied to devolved benefits. Across the Bill, we have made amendments that are more technical in nature, including to reflect the recent Data (Use and Access) Act 2025 and to ensure flexibility in the commencement of certain provisions of the Bill across the different nations of the United Kingdom.

In the interests of time, I will focus my update to the House on the most substantial and pertinent areas, on which there has been extensive engagement with external stakeholders and points have been made by peers in the other place. First, the Government tabled a group of amendments to part 1 to enable the Public Sector Fraud Authority to be merged with another statutory body, rather than necessarily being set up as a stand-alone statutory body, although the power to do so remains. That builds flexibility into the legislation, enabling the PSFA to achieve the aim of separation between investigators and Ministers in future, while avoiding the need to set up an entirely new statutory body if it is not considered proportionate to do so.

Linked to that, I would like to speak to a minor and technical amendment that I propose to make to Lords amendment 75 to schedule 2. Amendment (a) simply ensures that authorised investigators are captured within the regulation-making power set out in schedule 2 if or when the powers conferred under part 1 of the Bill are transferred to another public authority, or if the PSFA is set up as its own statutory body. It does not change the use of any powers laid out in the Bill.

The Government also amended parts 1 and 2 to ensure that the Government must disclose relevant information to the PSFA independent reviewer and the eligibility verification notice independent reviewer. Effective oversight is a critical aspect of this Government’s approach. These amendments do not represent a change in that approach; indeed, they further strengthen the commitments this Government have made to support open and transparent use of the powers. I will return to the point about oversight later in relation to Lords amendment 43.

The Government made several amendments to the debt provisions across parts 1 and 2. Those are a consequence of the extensive engagement by the PSFA and the Department for Work and Pensions with the financial sector, and they clarify important aspects of the operation of the powers, including in situations where a liable person might have a legal deputy managing their affairs. They also strengthen the rights of debtors by ensuring that a deduction order cannot be in suspension indefinitely, and that after a two-year period in suspension, it will not be resurrected. The Government have also responded to the continued confusion that seems to have arisen on the DWP debt recovery provisions in part 2 and who those powers apply to.

The Government have made amendments explicitly stating that a direct deduction order, as outlined in schedule 5, and a disqualification from driving order, as outlined in schedule 6, cannot be made where the person is entitled to and in receipt of a benefit from the DWP. That clarifies the existing intent that these powers are only for use with those who are not on benefits where the money cannot be recovered from a payslip and where the person can afford to pay and is refusing to do so. I remind the House that this power addresses an important point of fairness. It cannot be right that those who can pay money back can avoid doing so, and the amendments underline that point.

The Government also acted to strengthen the legislative safeguards around the use of the eligibility verification measure. I remind the House that that measure simply enables the DWP to ask financial institutions for limited data that will help the Department to identify incorrect payments and verify eligibility for specific benefits. The amendments made by the Government in the other place will introduce an explicit, necessary and proportionate test before an eligibility notice can be issued, and clarify the purpose for which an eligibility notice can be issued to only assisting in identifying incorrect payments. That puts the existing policy intent in the Bill. Again, I will return to the eligibility verification measure when I address Lords amendment 84.

I turn to the other amendments made in the other place. We welcome the challenge and scrutiny provided by peers’ contributions, but we cannot accept changes that risk undermining the powers. The Government’s position will continue to reflect that, including in our amendments in lieu. First, Lords amendment 1 would give the Minister for the Cabinet Office the power to initiate an investigation when they consider it necessary in the public interest. [Interruption.] Just so that he is sure of that power, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Josh Simons), has joined me on the Front Bench.

We are proposing technical changes to Lords amendment 1 through amendments (a) and (b) in lieu. Those changes will give the Minister for the Cabinet Office the power to initiate an investigation when they consider it necessary in the public interest. The other place asked us to go further than the original drafting of the Bill allowed, and our amendments show that we have listened. The Government believe that it will almost never be necessary for the Minister to exercise that new power because of the collaborative approach in the normal working of government, but it will be available if there is a genuine need.

Our amendments in lieu also make consequential changes to clause 2 to preserve the intention that the PSFA should not take on matters assigned to the Secretary of State with responsibility for social security or His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. The reason for that is that the DWP and HMRC already have well-established functions and frameworks to tackle social security and tax fraud. Of course, it goes without saying that both Departments may still collaborate with the PSFA if a fraud crosses many departmental boundaries.

I turn now to Lords amendments 30 and 31. The Government wholeheartedly agree that the measures in part 1 of the Bill are powerful and must be used with care. We agree that staff must be appropriately trained before they are able to use these powers, and that robust oversight—both internal and external—is essential. Our amendments (a), (b) and (c) in lieu mandate statutory guidance and a new reporting requirement, and set internal record requirements. The amendments in lieu ensure strong ministerial and parliamentary oversight of the powers, as was called for by the other House, without involving Ministers unnecessarily in operational decisions.

The statutory guidance will detail how the Minister will exercise the function of investigating suspected fraud against public authorities. It will outline structures of internal oversight, the delegation of powers, standards for the training and appointment of all authorised officers and investigators, and the PSFA’s collaboration with an independent reviewer. New reports will be prepared following the end of each financial year and laid in Parliament by the Minister, stating how many times the investigation and enforcement powers in part 1 have been used. There is now a requirement in the Bill for the PSFA to keep internal records of the use of those powers, available for scrutiny by an independent reviewer. Together, those measures ensure that Ministers are accountable for the use of the powers, and show how they are delegated. In places, they build on processes that would already have been in place, but we have put them in the Bill.

Let me move on to part 2 of the Bill, focusing first on Lords amendment 84 on the treatment of information obtained under an eligibility verification notice. Although I understand the intent of the other place, I cannot accept the amendment as drafted, and I urge Members instead to back Government amendments (a) and (b) in lieu.

Lords amendment 84 risks compromising the weight that the DWP may be able to attribute to information obtained through an eligibility verification notice. The Government have been clear that EVM information on its own has no tag of suspicion attached, and that the DWP must look within its own systems first and check for any inconsistency before taking further action. However, depending on the information held, EVM information may form an important part of any further action. We must not compromise that. The amendment also risks legislating for a person’s state of mind—in this case, that of a DWP-authorised officer. That is something that we should avoid where we can. It is far better to focus legislation on the actions that must or must not take place following receipt of EVM information.

The second part of the amendment, relating to the seniority of staff who must review EVM information, risks undermining the existing public law principle that staff at DWP take decisions on the Secretary of State’s behalf. There is also uncertainty about what would constitute a suitably senior person. In any case, the Secretary of State must be satisfied that officials are suitably trained and experienced to take decisions on their behalf.

Government amendments (a) and (b) in lieu of Lords amendment 84 seek to address those risks and build on the amendments that the Government tabled on Report in the Lords. They more accurately reflect the policy intent and focus on the actions that DWP staff must take following receipt of EVM information. The amendments in lieu clarify that where the DWP has received EVM information, it must also have regard to all other relevant information that it holds before taking further actions.

First, the amendments in lieu require an authorised officer to consider all information held that is relevant to the question of whether to issue an information notice, as well as the relevant EVM information, before issuing the notice under the Department’s investigatory powers. Secondly, they require a DWP agent to consider all information held that is relevant to the question of whether to suspend a payment, as well as the relevant EVM information, before suspending that payment. Finally, they require a DWP agent to consider all information held that is relevant to the question of whether to change an earlier benefit decision, as well as the relevant EVM information, before making that change.

I believe that our amendments succeed in offering the necessary reassurances about the way individuals within the DWP will take decisions once EVM information is received by the DWP—namely that no decisions will be made using EVM information in isolation—and I therefore urge hon. Members to back them.

Welfare Spending

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Stephen Timms]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The disability employment gap fell steadily under the previous Labour Government, but it has been stuck at about 30% ever since 2010. There was one moment in those 14 long years of Tory rule when it looked as though they planned to do something about it. In the middle of the 2015 general election campaign, David Cameron announced a target of halving the disability employment gap. It was like they suddenly woke up at that moment, but as soon as that election had been safely won, they scrapped the target. They just went back to passive benefit processing again.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister is a good man, and I mean that sincerely. I think he understands and shares the faith that I have when it comes to looking after those who are less well off. Every day in my office I meet constituents who have disabilities or complex health needs, anxiety and depression or severe mobility issues and people whose health problems are impacting their families. They are burdened with financial pressures. Those who cannot cope with life must not be penalised. Can the Minister reassure us that the vulnerable will not become a target for the Government or indeed anyone in this Chamber?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

Yes, I can. I will come on to talk about that in a couple of minutes.

In contrast to the passive approach of the last Government, we will be active. We are investing in and joining up work, health and skills support. We have brought adult skills and apprenticeships, further education, training and careers into the DWP so that we are better able to give people the skills to thrive in today’s economy and to enable them to move into good secure jobs.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Pat McFadden]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to the importance of the energy transition. As I said, the Scottish Government are receiving the largest spending review settlement in real terms since devolution was established. We know that young people in Scotland have the talent, but are their Government backing them by giving them the opportunity? We believe that a proportion of those funds should be devoted to that. I am pleased to say that, for example, BAE Systems will be a major beneficiary of the £10 billion deal to build Type 26 frigates for Norway—a critical investment in European security, and one that I hope the Scottish Government have got around to supporting.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his place and wish him well in his new role. I am quite confident that he will give us all the answers we wish to have. Northern Ireland continues to have a higher proportion of young people not in employment, education or training—some 11% to 13%—compared with the UK average, so what discussions has he had with the relevant Minister in Northern Ireland to ensure that the necessary support and opportunities are provided to young people in Northern Ireland?

[Pat McFadden]

There should be no part of the United Kingdom in which we do not give young people the maximum opportunity. I had a good working relationship with the Northern Ireland Executive in my previous post, and I hope to have a good working relationship with them in this post, with the shared agenda of giving our young people the best possible chance in life.

Statutory Maternity and Paternity Pay

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

You are very kind, Mrs Hobhouse; thank you very much. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Burton and Uttoxeter (Jacob Collier) on setting the scene. This issue affects every single constituency in the United Kingdom.

When babies are born, it is a time of beauty. Learning to navigate a wee family is so precious, but the reality is that when parents cocoon their baby, the bills need to be paid, and they find themselves outlaying more money than ever. They have to buy nappies, new clothes, the pram, the crib, the car seat; it sets them back a substantial amount. Although it may seem that mum and dad being on 90% for the first weeks is okay, the fact is that they are under pressure. The mortgage, the rent obligation, the car insurance and the car payments all still need to be paid on time.

Little wonder that the 2025 Maternity Action survey revealed that 90% of respondents worried about money during their maternity leave. The financial strain has a significant negative impact on women’s mental wellbeing. A 2025 Unison survey found that 57% of respondents felt pressure to return to work earlier than they would have liked.

Some mums are told that the most important time of their lives are the early years with their baby, and yet there can be no doubt that mums are under financial strain right from the outset. That does worry me. Mum guilt is a real thing; it is not just something that people talk about, a thing in a paper or a motto. They worry about letting their child down.

In Northern Ireland, the DUP has recognised the need for childcare and has introduced a very successful scheme. I am sure the Minister is aware of it. It gives some help at a time when it is needed.

Twelve weeks of severely reduced pay will not enable the mum to get the baby into their own wee routine, and ensure her physical and emotional health is back at the level needed to return to work. I urge the Government and the Minister to work on this issue, and recognise that there cannot be stable homes if parents with newborns are wondering whether to turn the heat on or whether to just have vegetable soup for the fourth meal in a row. That should not be the case. Let us change that and give families the time they need to bond.

World Menopause Day

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Betts. I commend the hon. Member for Neath and Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on setting the scene so well, as she always does. I have always been pleased to help and support her. She is dedicated to her causes—that is the way I would put it—and she always leads by example and with passion. It is really hard to say no to her, to tell the truth. I say that genuinely: it is, because I support her in what she does.

When someone says the word “menopause”, reactions will differ. There will perhaps be a sense of embarrassment. For others, there is an immediate sense of understanding. For some, there is a sense of sympathy. For others, there is a distance. The fact is that conversations have taken place, and led us to a place where we acknowledge the effect that menopause has on families, and how we can work together to give support and love during a different phase of the family journey.

I have seen change from the days in my parents’ household, when these things could never be mentioned, to the family home where my children were raised, where my wife Sandra is the heart of the home. I have an understanding of the changes in her life, which brought about changes in the home. That gave me a slightly better understanding. I am thankful for that progress, and although I am by no means saying that we are all understanding and enlightened, I know that conversation has brought about changes, and an awareness in me that I hope has enabled me to provide greater support to those who need it in my office.

I always say that I am blessed with women of many generations in my office. They give me an understanding of so many issues. I have women in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s. I am blessed to have their hard work and wisdom. It is my job as an employer to facilitate their carrying out that hard work. There are obligations on employers. They can be easier to meet for office staff than for others, but it is important to help staff to work well at every stage of their lives.

We need to step up information and guidance for small businesses on providing help to enable all staff to feel valued at every stage of their journey. We need to ensure that medical support is more readily available. For most women, their GP does the blood test, tells them that their hormones are still present, and sometimes will say just to grin and bear it, yet we know that the perimenopause can affect women for years. Even the acknowledgement that they are in that stage can be useful for strong, independent women, who have difficulty understanding the physical and emotional changes that they are going through. With that in mind, I am pleased to add my support to the campaign of the hon. Member for Neath and Swansea East.

I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place. This is a new role for her, but in all the roles that she has held, she has done exceptionally well, and I have no doubt that she will do the same in this one.

I conclude with this: menopause is much more than the change of life. Life is ever changing, but menopause is a major milestone on life’s journey, and it must be acknowledged as real and worthy of attention. Perhaps I cannot totally understand that section of the journey—there is no road map, for instance—but I am prepared to help and support as needed. Let us work in every area of Government to provide guidance and help to those who need a bit of support along this part of the journey, and ensure that employers have the tools that they need to meet the requirements of their staff.

Neurodivergent People: Employment

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey. I commend the hon. Member for Ely and East Cambridgeshire (Charlotte Cane) for her passion in this matter. She has done this House credit today and she deserves many accolades for the way that she presented the case.

I wish, as always, to give a Northern Ireland perspective on the matter, which I hope will add to the debate. The issues that the hon. Lady and others have spoken to are replicated in Northern Ireland. Some 5,367 people were recorded as having an autism diagnosis in the 2021 Northern Ireland census, and prevalence in school-aged children is much higher, reaching 5.9% in 2024-25, according to a report by the Department of Health.

Some 70,000 adults may have ADHD in Northern Ireland, according to an April ’25 BBC report citing an ADHD expert. Those figures are relevant and fresh for this debate. The same expert suggests that there are a higher number of undiagnosed adults as well, with 5% of school-aged children estimated to have ADHD, according to Northern Ireland Direct.

It is clear that there is now much more awareness of neurodivergence. That is a good thing; it means that we can help those young people, with their lives ahead of them, to find a job that fulfils them and fulfils the communities in which they live.

There are many fantastic programmes currently in Northern Ireland that do phenomenal work with those who need a different way of training to achieve the right result. One of those is NOW Group, which works with those who need training in a different way to learn their trade. It supports 1,630 people across its services and it is estimated that £1.5 million of disposable income was generated by those in paid work, meaning that every £1 invested in NOW Group generated £21 in social value—again, if we want return for our money, there it is.

However, this issue is about more than money; it is about making sure those young people have the opportunity to do well. Money does not take into account the value of dignity and pride for those who may have struggled to fit in, and now realise that there is still a place for them. That restoration of dignity, pride and confidence for those young people in work is so important. Some 257 people are in paid employment because of the service and there are 70,000 online training sessions. NOW Group is doing truly great work, but the difficulty lies in the fact that it is not funded consistently and is reliant on grants and charitable giving, as well as the goodness of volunteers who have donated 2,000 hours of voluntary service.

As we see the rise in neurodivergent diagnoses, so will the need increase for these groups, which enable young men and young women to find work and self-worth and enable businesses to realise that thinking outside the box and processing in a different way can be a bonus to running a business. The question is how we encourage businesses to see the potential in those young boys and girls.

It is my belief that the Government must pour resources into this in the same way they do for other college and education funds. I look to the Government, and particularly the Minister, to instigate sustained funding for groups such as NOW Group, Usel—Ulster Supported Employment Ltd —and others. What they do for our young people cannot be ignored. We thank them, and we look forward to more work with them in future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Stephen Timms]

Yes, there are opportunities to do exactly that. We will look at the recommendations from the independent panel along with the results of the “Keep Britain Working” review, which is led by Sir Charlie Mayfield and is investigating how employers can reduce health-related inactivity. We want to bring all this work together to make a real difference. We are expecting the recommendations from Sir Charlie Mayfield in the autumn, so there will be a lot going on this policy area, with opportunities for improvement.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his response to all the requests we have made collectively and individually. I am very keen to show that we can have an exchange of views and share ideas. In particular, I want us to share some of those ideas with the relevant Minister in Northern Ireland, to ensure that the good things we do there can advise Ministers here, and vice versa. Does the Minister intend to ensure that will happen? If so, I would welcome it.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I have had a number of opportunities to speak to my counterpart Minister in Northern Ireland and I am sure there will be more—I have always enjoyed those conversations. I have not yet had the opportunity to visit Northern Ireland but that might also be a possibility.

The new jobs and careers service that we are setting up is a key reform. To echo the points made in the debate, the new service will deliver much more personalised support than has been provided in the past, moving away from the one-size-fits-all, tick-box approach that far too many people think of as characterising Jobcentre Plus. We need to be different from that. The pathfinder we have set up in Wakefield is testing how a personalised offer could be much more responsive to different support needs, including those of neurodivergent people in particular. We are testing how to make the jobcentre environment more accessible for both jobseekers and DWP staff with support needs, including neurodiversity. The findings of the academic panel will also help us to shape the new service.

Our new Connect to Work service, which is being locally commissioned and will cover the whole country by early in the new year, includes a specialist pathway for those with particularly complex barriers, using the IPS—individual placement support—methodology and the supported employment quality framework, which has been overseen by the British Association of Supported Employment, which I think the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire (Ian Sollom) mentioned. There has been close collaboration with BASE in drawing up Connect to Work, which I think will make a big difference over the next few years.

Participants in Connect to Work will be given a dedicated specialist employment support adviser to work alongside them, understand their career goals and help them to address specific barriers to employment. We are taking a very different approach. The methodology is being tightly defined—the IPS and the BASE framework—but the service is being commissioned entirely locally. The decisions about who to involve and which organisations will take part are being made entirely locally by, I think, 42 groups of local authorities around the country. I am hopeful that that increasingly devolved approach will allow us to make substantial progress.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2025 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Western]

My hon. Friend is entirely right to raise this issue. We will look at that, working closely with the Department for Education, as part of the child poverty strategy. We of course share her ambition to ensure that families can claim the support that they need. Our expansion of free school meals to all children in households claiming universal credit will make it much easier for parents to know if they are eligible, as well as lifting some 100,000 children out of poverty.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his reply; as always, he is very positive in his responses. He referred to the anti-poverty strategy. What discussions has he had about the anti-poverty strategy for us in Northern Ireland? Levels of poverty and mental health issues have risen dramatically, and young people in particular are under great pressure. The Minister is always compassionate and understanding; what is he doing in relation to the Northern Ireland Assembly to make things better for us as well?

[Andrew Western]

The hon. Gentleman will understand that we want this strategy to be for England, Wales, Scotland and, of course, Northern Ireland. He will be reassured to learn that those leading on the child poverty strategy have held a number of meetings with Ministers in Northern Ireland to ensure that its specific needs are taken into consideration.

Credit Unions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Twigg. I commend and thank my Gaelic cousin, the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch (Katrina Murray), for setting the scene so very well. It is also good to see the Minister in his place. He is certainly becoming a regular in Westminster Hall—he is here almost as much as me.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

Not quite!

[Jim Shannon]

That was meant as a compliment, by the way. I look forward to the Minister’s contribution. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), brings a wealth of knowledge to the debate from his previous employment. I know that the debate will be greatly enhanced by the contributions of all.

I have long been an advocate of credit unions, and I have been thinking about how long I have been involved with them. The credit union in Greyabbey was run by the Orange lodge, which was the instigator. It made its hall available and managed the credit union under the auspices of credit unions elsewhere as the governing body.

I became involved to support credit unions and to start an account for my three boys. Only last week, I realised that moneys in that account had been gathering for some time and had been sitting in the transfer, because the account was transferred from Greyabbey to Newtownards credit union. My three boys have a bonus coming, which I will let them know about one of these days. I hope they will not spend it on wasteful living, but whatever they do, they do.

The credit union instilled in my boys and in me from an early age the value of saving and of ensuring that the saver can afford to pay back loans. That is the great thing about the credit union; we can put money in and borrow money out, but it is controlled in a way that means someone can live and borrow at a rate they can repay. That is a lesson that I learned from my mum and dad—of course, as we all learn from our mums and dads—and that has stayed with me these many years.

It is said that every pound is a prisoner to a Scots woman or man, but I think it is equally a prisoner to some of us in Northern Ireland; we are no different. As the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch said, there has been substantial growth of credit unions in Northern Ireland, particularly in membership and assets. Membership has doubled in the past decade, with 34% of the population now saving with a credit union, which is a massive figure.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

It was good to hear the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch (Katrina Murray) mention Northern Ireland. I, too, am a member of the credit union, and I have a savings account for my little boy as well. Does my hon. Friend agree that in Northern Ireland, where so many people bank with the credit union, the numbers could grow if the credit union were able to do more? The legislation in Northern Ireland is quite antiquated, and we are only able to bank with loans and savings. Does he agree that we should learn from what happens in GB and address it from there?

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The 34% growth of the credit union in Northern Ireland indicates its success. She is correct that there is certainly more it could do.

Total assets have passed £1.9 billion, having increased by 1.6% in the third quarter of 2022. Lending is also strong, with the loan book increasing by 8.3% year on year. Membership of credit unions in Northern Irelands stands at 571,000. To put that in context, Northern Ireland’s population is 1.96 million. That is a success story. It is lovely to tell everyone about what we are doing in Northern Ireland, and the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch was generous in her comments and acknowledged the good stuff we do.

The figures represent a 30% increase over the past 10 years. With the rise in membership comes the need to ensure that the institution is financially safe and sound, which is always important. I am thankful for the credit unions in my constituency; I can think of three straight away. The one in Kircubbin, which took over the premises of the Northern bank, or Danske bank, is an offshoot of the credit union in Portaferry, which I have supported the whole way through. There is also an active credit union in Newtownards that provides a wonderful service to get people on the road to financial stability. That is what credit unions do: they help people to save and ensure that they borrow and spend their money wisely.

There are over 2,200 credit unions providing ethical financial services to more than 1.5 million people, holding £2.71 billion in assets, £2.33 billion in savings and £1.83 billion in lending. Their differences mean that they can lend responsibly with good rates to those who are classified as excluded communities, with 31% of the community development credit union pathfinder members being “cash-strapped families”, and 21% falling into the “hard-up” or “challenging circumstances” categories. Credit unions are often the only fair option for such individuals and it is really good to have them on board.

Some 56% of credit unions offer payroll savings, and “save as you borrow” schemes turn 67% of previous non-savers into regular savers. Prize-linked savings also incentivise saving behaviour. I understand that in this day and age it is always that wee bit harder to save money. My mum and dad instilled in me a saving culture at an early age, and I remember saving from a very early age. Not everybody can buy their house today, as they perhaps would have whenever I was younger and houses were much cheaper. Credit unions like Serve and Protect offer dividends of 3.5% to 4.5%, returning £3 million to members, while for every £1 invested, the Clockwise credit union generates £11 to £19 in social value. Credit unions reduce financial leakage and build community wealth. I am sold on credit unions. I think they are great and I hope my speech has illustrated that. I think everybody else will say the same thing.

I will conclude, as I am conscious that others want to speak and that time will be limited. I am a strong advocate for credit unions simply because they work. Let us support and encourage them. As my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) said, let us try to do more so that we can bring them along. I encourage reasonable regulation that allows the freedom to spend locally and not to be drawn into more centralised investment—if someone borrows from a credit union, they are more likely to spend their money in the local area of their credit union, and more likely to borrow or buy from the area where they live—and I know that the Government, and the Minister in particular, would like to advocate for and support that.

I wish my local credit unions every success as they continue to help people to learn financial principles and responsibilities while sowing deeply into the local economy. That can only be a good thing, so it is a pleasure to speak today about credit unions. I could wax lyrical until about 10.28 am, but you would not let me, Mr Twigg—others will do that for their own constituencies.

Welfare Spending

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Gill German]

I have just given way, so I will make some progress.

I came to this place because I did not want to mitigate the impact of child poverty any more—I wanted to do something about it. That is exactly what this Labour Government are doing, by boosting the minimum wage, taking others on the pay scale up with it; by investing in getting people trapped outside the labour market into work—the surest route out of poverty in the long term for them and the generations that follow; by negotiating trade deals to bring food costs down; by expanding the warm home discount, so that almost 1 million more families can afford to pay their bills, and investing in our own clean energy to bring those bills down for good; by increasing the standard rate of universal credit above inflation for the first time ever; and by establishing a fair payment rate for those who find themselves immediately in arrears with universal credit, which is a recognised driver for food bank use—an early action towards our manifesto promise to end mass food bank dependence for good. That is what action looks like—not indifference, not inertia, and not blaming those who are in need of support.

I know only too well that the drivers of child poverty are complex and multifaceted, but we must not shy away from that complexity. That is why I am proud that one of this Government’s first actions was to begin work on a child poverty strategy where, importantly, everything is on the table to drive down poverty and drive up opportunity.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Lady give way on that point?

[Gill German]

I am just about to finish, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

I look forward to the findings of the child poverty taskforce in the autumn. More than that, I look forward to getting to work to make child poverty a thing of the past, so that we can continue to act, rather than to blame as the motion does today. We must put child poverty into the dustbin of history, where it belongs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak in support of the policies outlined by the Minister. I wish to discuss the crisis in the system, the situation in my constituency, and some of the important initiatives under way to get people back into work.

It is worth reviewing the scale of the crisis that the current Government inherited just a year ago. After 14 years of the previous Government, 4.5 million children were living in poverty, 2.8 million people were on long-term sickness and disability benefits, and the cost of those benefits was up by £20 billion since the pandemic.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Matt Rodda]

I will not, I am afraid. I need to make some progress.

In addition, one in eight young people were out of work due to long-term sickness and were on sickness and disability benefits. In short, the system that the Government inherited this time last year was in crisis and, moreover, trapped people in poverty.

We are lucky to have a growing local economy in my constituency. We have a town that attracts many new businesses, and we grow our own businesses. However, that wealth is not spread evenly. Despite the impressive array of new buildings in the town centre, there is a stark contrast between the wealth in those businesses and some of the wonderful science parks on the edge of the town, and the poverty in which some of our residents live. I want to see that issue addressed. The Government are taking important steps forward in tackling that issue. I certainly saw the problems when I was a councillor in Reading. They can include families struggling to get by in an area where the cost of living is particularly high and the cost of housing is high; that is a crucial part of the issue.

Creating more good jobs is very important, and that is not just my opinion. Those jobs need to be spread across the country, and I believe the Government are making real progress on that, and on growing the economy. Indeed, I will correct a point that was made earlier: the UK economy has grown more in the first quarter of this year than any other comparable G7 economy, and that is in a difficult economic context around the world. As well as a need for economic growth, there is a need to improve access to good jobs. That is one of the points I want to cover.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Rodda]

I will make a little more progress.

I have discussed some of the challenges in my constituency, which are very pertinent to the wider debate. Even in areas of the UK where economic growth is at quite a reasonable level, we face real challenges accessing some of that wealth. The Minister outlined the 17 initiatives aimed at encouraging people to return to work, building their confidence and growing their ability to access work. That is so important. I would like to see more of that, and I hope that the Minister will say more about that later.

Many of my constituents who are not able to benefit from the great opportunities in our town are struggling with a series of challenges in their lives. That is not through their own lack of initiative, but often because of pressures on childcare and many other issues.

[Jim Shannon]

I agree with the points that the hon. Gentleman makes about child poverty. In Northern Ireland, child poverty has grown by between 35% and 40% in total, so many people in Northern Ireland have experienced child poverty in the last five years who would not have experienced it for a long time before that. The Government have indicated that having a strategy may work. Does he feel, as I do, that we need a strategy not just for Westminster, but for the whole United Kingdom, so that we can collectively address this issue?

[Matt Rodda]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. This must be a strategy for the whole United Kingdom. I am obviously reflecting on the issues in my community, where we are lucky to have relatively high economic growth, but that growth is not spread or shared evenly. I want more detail from the Minister about the 17 very exciting pilots, which have focused on offering help and support.

I appreciate that time is pressing, but let me briefly focus on some of the very important first steps that the Government have taken in this area. Some of these policies are not solely within the remit of the Department for Work and Pensions, but are cross-Government. It is important to see the context. We have had the biggest investment in employment support for many years, with £3.5 billion being invested in that important field. There has also been an increase in the minimum wage to £12.21 per hour, and the initiative to build more homes during this Parliament. That is vital. As I said, one of the biggest challenges for families in my area is the very high cost of housing, so it is very important that we build homes to buy and to rent across the country, and that families can access those. Greater supply will obviously drive down the cost.

It is also important that families are supported with childcare. That is a very important aspect of helping parents return to work, particularly when they have young children. I was delighted to hear the Best Start announcement, and there will be a Best Start project in Reading. Other initiatives have provided similar support; the free breakfast clubs, for example, are also very important. I want a quicker roll-out of those programmes.

Beer Duty

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Murrison, and it was a pleasure to hear the hon. Member for Woking (Mr Forster) set the scene so well. I was intrigued by the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) referring to the fact that Lib Dems were here. It made me wonder what that means about the Lib Dems—I say that in jest, of course.

I am thankful that beer has become more than the mainstays of Harp, Carling and Guinness, which are all wonderful beers and stouts but increasingly being challenged by small independent brewers. There is only one small independent brewer in my constituency, but they are good guys; they have a good company, and I wish to mention them. Grant in my office tells me that Bullhouse East craft beer, which began in Newtownards, is top class and, for any of the big brands, hard to beat. I have tried it myself and I also think it features up there, but that is just my opinion.

Hon. Members may not be aware that, in Northern Ireland, small independent breweries are severely restricted from offering the choice and variety of local products that consumers demand, because of the liquor licensing laws. That limits Northern Ireland’s economic, hospitality and tourism opportunities and means that 99% of beers sold in Northern Ireland are imported. This year, Northern Ireland lost 20% of its breweries because of the limits. The current review of the licensing system, including the surrender principle, is the opportunity to introduce much-needed reforms. I will ask a question of the Minister at the end of my speech and I will be happy for him to get back to me in written form if that makes it easier, because of the particular question that I intend to ask.

Granting Northern Ireland’s independent breweries the ability to properly open taprooms, as happens in England, Scotland and Wales, would enable small businesses to reach their potential, meet consumer choice and increase tourism. I believe that is what we should be considering for Northern Ireland, so that is my wish and my request to the Minister. The Licensing (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 limits the number of alcohol licences available. Under the surrender principle, an existing licence must be surrendered before the granting of a new one. It is a quirk in the law, but it means that someone has to hand one in so that someone else can buy one, and the premium is exorbitant.

Obtaining a new licence costs well over £100,000, which is unaffordable for most small businesses. In some areas of Northern Ireland, it is impossible to get a new licence. The Licensing and Registration of Clubs (Amendment) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 introduced a new but extremely limited local producer’s licence, but its cost of £10,000 or more outweighed its limited benefits. It was very limited, restricting a brewery to opening twice a week for 12 hours and selling only its own products.

Northern Ireland’s 23 small breweries struggle to sell their products in local pubs, as the vast majority are locked into sole-supply contracts with globally owned breweries. That is another negative for those people who want to be more independent, to have more choice and to give their customers more choice. Many of those globally owned breweries do not allow local draught beer to be sold. Currently, the only realistic option for Northern Ireland’s small independent breweries is to export their beer to the rest of the UK or to the Republic of Ireland. In England, Wales and Scotland, small independent breweries are permitted to apply for a licence to properly open taprooms, which helps to create jobs, regenerate the community and grow tourism.

The one thing that we have in Northern Ireland and have tried to encourage—this applies in particular to my council, Ards and North Down borough council—is tourism. We are very keen to ensure that tourism can produce economic advantages, jobs, money and opportunities for small businesses to grow as well. Northern Ireland’s independent breweries need the same opportunities to grow and thrive. Any discussion on Northern Ireland’s top-class beer industry must come with us urging Government to support our local breweries and, obviously, to liaise with the Northern Ireland Assembly to press for reform. That is what I look to the Minister for today. As I said, I will be very happy if the Minister wishes to come back to me on this issue in a letter to indicate what can or cannot be done.

The one thing I do know is that we in Northern Ireland want to play our part. We do not have a large number of breweries; we have 23 across Northern Ireland, with one of them being in my constituency, but I am very keen to see the opportunities presented by the proposal from the hon. Member for Woking, who as I said set the scene very well, and for us to be able to be part of that. I am ever mindful—others have referred to the news in the paper in the last two weeks about the number of pubs that will close in the United Kingdom over the next period of time; I think one per week was the figure referred to—that there is pressure on the hospitality sector and, in particular, on pubs. They are part of the community. Whether people are going for a drink, to socialise, to have fun, to meet people or for a meal, pubs are integral. Let us do our best to ensure that we keep all the ones that are there, so that in the future they can still be parts of the communities that we live in.