Covid-19 Update

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his clear commitment and for the regular updates that we get in the House. Can he provide an assessment of the availability of the new covid drug molnupiravir? If people get that pill within five days of symptoms, hospitalisation and death rates are cut by 50%. Will the drug be available across the whole United Kingdom, and will the vulnerable classification include the diabetic and the immunosuppressed?

[Sajid Javid]

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the antiviral drug that he refers to has been approved by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. We do have that drug, and since the point of approval last week we have already started deploying it in certain settings across the United Kingdom. We have put an order in for another antiviral, which has had very successful trial outcomes, but it has not received any final approval. If the MHRA independently decides to approve it—of course, that is a decision for the MHRA—the country will be in the fortunate position of having procured that drug, too.

UK Vaccination Strategy

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maggie Throup)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) for bringing this important debate to the House and for his kind words about the success of the covid-19 vaccination programme. He speaks with a great deal of knowledge and personal experience, and I thank him for that.

I am going to talk about the covid vaccination programme as a great example of how well the UK has done in putting together a programme in a short time with great success, which I know my hon. Friend will want us to emulate in other areas. Our phenomenal covid vaccination programme continues at pace, with almost nine in 10 people aged 12 and over having now received at least one dose and more than 10 million people throughout the UK having had their booster and third vaccination dose.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I spoke to the hon. Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) and he suggested that I should ask the Minister this question. Those over 50 with a vulnerable disease or who are on a priority list have been told that they can get the booster vaccine; if someone happens to be aged 40 or 35 and is a type 1 diabetic in a vulnerable position, should they not also get the booster injection as a priority?

[Maggie Throup]

The criteria for who should receive a third dose are set by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation. We take its recommendations and roll things out according to that advice.

I thank each and every person who has come forward for their jab, as well as the tens of thousands of NHS staff and volunteers who have made this happen. Vaccines remain our biggest line of defence as we head into a challenging winter period. Vaccinated people are less likely to get seriously ill with covid-19, to be admitted to hospital or to die from it. There is also evidence that they are less likely to pass the virus on to others. Although the vaccine efficacy against severe disease remains high, we know that a small change can generate a major shift in hospital admissions—for example, a change in efficacy from 95% to 90% would lead to the doubling of hospital admissions among those vaccinated.

Early results from Pfizer show that a booster jab restores protection to 95.6% against symptomatic infection. That is why we have launched the booster programme—to top up the immunity for those at increased risk of complications from covid-19 over the winter months, helping to keep people out of hospital, to reduce pressure on our NHS, and, as my hon. Friend has indicated, to ensure that there are fewer patients with covid-19 in need of an expensive hospital bed. The UK already has one of the highest covid-19 vaccine uptake rates in the world and we are working closely with the NHS to make it as easy as possible for everyone to get a vaccine.

There are more than 2,200 vaccination sites in operation across the country, an additional 500 extra vaccination sites now compared with April this year. Hundreds of walk-in sites across the country are now also offering booster vaccines, making it even easier for people who are eligible to get their top-up jab. From Elland Road in Leeds to the Kassam Stadium in Oxford, the NHS is making it as easy as possible for people to get vital protection against the virus ahead of the winter months.

We are working with the NHS to provide advice and information at every opportunity on how to get a vaccine and its benefits as well as combating any misinformation. The NHS is engaging every single day with local authorities, faith leaders and organisations representing ethnic minority communities to provide advice and information about vaccines and about how they will be made available.

Our communications include information and advice via TV, radio and social media, and this has been translated into more than 13 different languages. Print and online material, including interviews and practical advice, has appeared in 600 national, regional, local and specialist titles. We have worked with clinicians and medical influencers to communicate the benefits of the vaccine and deliver content via the media and social media platforms.

This is just some of the huge amount of activity that has taken place, and that continues to take place, to ensure that as many people as possible can benefit from the vaccine, but we are not resting on our laurels. We have been continually learning throughout the roll-out of the vaccine. We look at research from trusted and reputable sources and we have identified some of the most effective interventions. I am sure that we can learn from this for other vaccination programmes, too. For example, we have learned that engagement with local communities, targeting specific gaps in vaccine uptake and getting local, trusted community leaders involved—people who know their communities well—is a very effective approach.

There are countless, brilliant examples of local activity around the country, but I shall mention Salford where they worked specifically with people experiencing homelessness, and were able to vaccinate 653 people. Every jab helps to save lives, and these are some of the hardest to reach people in our society, and also those who would have been most vulnerable to the virus. We have also increased the amount of information publicly available on vaccines, including more transparency about its benefits, safety, and potential side effects.

I can fully assure my hon. Friend that this Government are committed to tackling covid-19 vaccine misinformation, and I agree with every word that he has said so passionately on this: vaccine misinformation is dangerous and costs lives. That is why we stood up the cross-Whitehall counter-disinformation unit, specifically to tackle online misinformation and disinformation, and to hold social media companies to their public commitments to combat covid misinformation. We have also produced a wide variety of communications and toolkits to share case stories, build confidence, and provide trusted information about the safety of the vaccine.

Throughout the pandemic, the Government have been guided by the advice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation and the four UK chief medical officers, and we have consulted a wide range of experts and ensured that their advice is embraced and actioned. Trusted experts such as our deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam and so many others have all helped to build confidence in the vaccine in our communities where uptake is traditionally low. That has made a big difference. YouGov polling indicates that vaccine hesitancy in ethnic minority groups reduced from 63% to 14% from October 2020 to August 2021.

I can assure my hon. Friend that we do not have an ounce of complacency, and will continue to do whatever we can to stamp out dangerous misinformation. He is keen that we translate the successes of the covid vaccination programme into all our immunisation programmes. I fully agree that there is so much learning from our response to the pandemic that can inform and strengthen our wider vaccination programme.

The UK already has world-leading childhood immunisation programmes, and vaccine coverage from most of our childhood programmes is generally high. My hon. Friend was quite correct when he indicated that uptake had fallen slightly due to school closures and social distancing. I reassure him that the mitigation measures are in place to ensure that no child misses out on those vaccinations. However, we know that uptake rates must improve to fully protect the public from preventable diseases. We made a manifesto commitment to maintain and improve the routine childhood vaccination programme, and we recognise that there is still more that can be done to improve uptake in all programmes.

The publication of England’s national vaccine strategy has been delayed as a result of our ongoing focus on responding to the unprecedented covid-19 pandemic, but rest assured the strategy has been kept under constant review and is in the process of being refreshed to reflect the changed landscape that the pandemic has brought, including new developments from the covid-19 vaccine and the extended NHS flu programme.

I know that my hon. Friend has a particular interest in the use of data and technology. Both offer immense benefits to every individual who seeks vaccination and to the health system that supports them. Our ambition is to make vaccination records easily available digitally so that each individual, and anyone treating them, can easily access their vaccination records, know which vaccines they have had, which they still need, and when they are due to receive them. The covid-19 pandemic has reinforced both the importance of vaccines—as they offer the best way out of the pandemic and the return to normal life—and our certainty that we can do even better and create even stronger, more effective vaccination programmes in the future.

Flu is another winter virus that can be serious, especially when combined with covid-19. That is why we are running the largest ever flu vaccination programme in UK history. A record 35 million people in England can book a free flu jab this year—the most ambitious effort ever to protect individuals and their loved ones from what can be a very nasty illness. It is vital that we build on the learning from the successes of the covid-19 vaccine programme, and use it to improve all vaccine programmes.

The covid-19 vaccine roll-out continues to be a success through every single vaccine given. I ask those people who peddle untruths and misinformation about the benefits of the vaccine to look at the evidence: more than 130,000 lives saved; and more than 24 million infections and 230,000 hospitalisations prevented. The facts are clear. That is 130,000 families who continue to have a mother, father, husband, wife, daughter, son, brother or sister still with them—and that is powerful. It is for that reason that we will continue to tackle vaccine misinformation head-on, and to promote the benefits of the vaccine to as many people as possible.

Finally, and as I have been grateful to have the opportunity to say many times at this Dispatch Box over the last few weeks, I urge everyone to get their booster jab as soon as they are eligible. To those who have not had their first jab yet: it is never too late.

Question put and agreed to.

Dame Carol Black’s Independent Review of Drugs Report

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Westminster Hall

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Dame Carol Black’s independent review of drugs report.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Fovargue. I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The damning conclusion of part two of Dame Carol Black’s review, setting out a way forward on drug treatment and recovery, was that

“the public provision we currently have for prevention, treatment and recovery is not fit for purpose, and urgently needs repair.”

I have called today’s debate because the report’s recommendations are too important to be left gathering dust on ministerial bookshelves. I want Dame Carol’s words ringing in ministerial ears. She says:

“Government faces an unavoidable choice: invest in tackling the problem or keep paying for the consequences. A whole-system approach is needed…This part of my review offers concrete proposals, deliverable within this Parliament, to achieve this.”

Of the review, Dame Carol says:

“It calls for significant investment, but the payoff is handsome: currently each £1 spent on treatment will save £4 from reduced demands on health, prison, law enforcement and emergency services. I am hopeful that the recommendations will be welcomed by this government as they strongly support its crime reduction and ‘levelling up’ agendas.”

The 32 recommendations are a gift to the Government, and should be a moment for change. It is fitting that the debate falls on Budget day. The economic cost of drug misuse is upwards of £20 billion each year; yet the spending on prevention and treatment stands at just £650 million. The recommendations give hope that real change is possible. Addiction is a national crisis. Drug and alcohol-related deaths are the highest on record, at the very moment that treatment services are most ill-equipped to deal with the soaring need.

Forward Trust estimates that more than 2 million people are in need of help with alcohol, drugs or gambling, and its recent YouGov poll showed that 64% of people said that they knew someone personally struggling with addiction. Since I talked openly about my personal experience of addiction and recovery, I have been over- whelmed by the thousands of people who have reached out to tell me their personal stories—of the horror of addiction, and the blessings of recovery. The tragedy is that addiction is everywhere, yet remains so hidden.

In 2019 Dame Carol was commissioned by the then Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), to independently review illicit drugs in England. I thank her for her commitment and dedication over the last few years, and all those who contributed to this groundbreaking report. Most of all, I hope that my contribution today does justice to the absolute clarity that Dame Carol brings to these incredibly complex matters. Part one of her review was published on 27 February, and made for uncomfortable reading. The unflinching analysis detailed the extent of drug-related harm and the challenges posed by drug supply and demand, including the ways in which drugs fuel serious violence.

The Department of Health and Social Care swiftly commissioned Dame Carol to produce part two of her independent review, which focused on how to improve the funding, commissioning, quality and accountability of drug prevention, treatment and recovery services in England. Part two of her report, published in July, pulls no punches either. It says:

“Funding cuts have left treatment and recovery services on their knees. Commissioning has been fragmented, with little accountability for outcomes. And partnerships between local authorities, health, housing, employment support and criminal justice agencies have deteriorated.”

The report goes on:

“The workforce is depleted, especially of professionally qualified people, and demoralised. Vital services have been cut back, particularly inpatient detoxification, residential rehabilitation, specialist services for young people, and treatment for cannabis and stimulant users.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for bringing this issue to Westminster Hall for debate and discussion. Does he agree that more should be done to ensure that alcoholism in particular is treated urgently, along with drugs, and that help needs to be given to families for rehabilitation, which he has referred to, not in a punitive fashion, which is how some would like to do it, but instead to help to draw people away from their addiction? That has to be done in such a way that people wish to get away from their addiction and try to move forward.

[Dan Carden]

Absolutely. That is a valuable intervention, and it is good that we have a Health Minister responding to this debate, because it is a health response, joined up across Government, that this issue calls for.

Part two of the report goes on:

“Areas of the country with the highest rates of drug deaths or the poorest treatment services are the very same areas where the need to level up is greatest. These communities want to see urgent and effective action to tackle the violent drugs market, alongside purposeful efforts to rebuild treatment services and recovery support so that people can get the help they need.”

NHS England Funding: Announcement to Media

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Edward Argar]

We need to make sure that our NHS workforce, which is diverse in terms of its skills and background, is able to work where those skills are most effectively deployed to deliver the best outcomes for patients. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: where are there are administrative tasks, which I do not in any way denigrate, that are better performed by an administrator than a clinician, we should be looking to deliver that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the Minister for being assiduous and incredibly dedicated. We welcome money wherever it comes from because it is important to have it. In Northern Ireland we are very keen to see what that money will mean. Will similar money be provided for Northern Ireland through the Barnett consequentials? Will there be any direction as to how the money is spent—for example, to address this year’s non-elective surgery waiting list to give people their sight back, their ability back, and indeed, for some, their lives back? What discussions have taken place with Robin Swann, the Health Minister, in relation to that?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman —my hon. Friend—for his question. The Chancellor will set out the detail of Barnett consequentials in due course. The hon. Gentleman knows that I speak to Robin Swann, to whose work I pay tribute, at regular intervals—almost fortnightly—about a number of things. I have not yet discussed the detail of this matter with him, and it will be for him as a devolved Health Minister to make those decisions, but I will of course discuss it with him.

Covid-19: Government Response

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I wish the Minister well in her new role. Will she outline what plans are in place to begin to get on top of waiting lists, for example on breast reconstruction post mastectomy, hip replacements and tonsil operations? Will additional funding be made available to outsource work to private hospitals to reduce waiting lists and to give people back their health, mobility and confidence?

[Maggie Throup]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I reassure him that a lot of investment is being put into the health service, as I am sure he is aware, to ensure that we can tackle the backlog that has been created because of the pandemic.

World Menopause Month

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on her contribution. I cannot think of any debate that we have not been together on. Indeed, the hon. Lady usually puts forward her suggestion of what she wants me to do and I easily fall in with whatever she says. She is infectious; she makes others want to be part of the debate and enthuses them.

As a man, I am pleased to speak in this debate because, as other Members have said, it is important that we understand the issues. I am pleased to be part of the growing call to bring living through menopause out of the shadows and into mainstream life. Some cynics might wonder what gives me the authority to speak when I do not have the necessary equipment to understand fully. I acknowledge that, because, in much the same way, unless someone is a diabetic, as I am, they can never fully grasp the life-impacting changes that diabetes brings. Although I cannot bring first-hand experience to this issue, I believe that I can bring compassion and a desire for other men to understand that we have a role to play in the cycle of menopause about which each and every person who has spoken today has referred.

I was recently asked to make comment on the menopause for a blog. The hon. Member for Swansea East had made the bloggers aware that I would be very keen to do so, and I did, of course, as she knows. I said that I was raised by a very strong lady in my mother, who gave me a real appreciation for the work ethic with the kind and no-nonsense approach of a good woman. Sandra and I have been married for some 34 years. Some people may say, “How has she stuck it that length of time?” Well, there must be something right, otherwise we would not be together, let us put it that way. She raised our three boys. She volunteered in the local charity. She kept our home going while I worked incredibly long hours. I am so grateful for her support in every aspect of my life.

However, as Sandra has approached menopause, it is clear that while she can and does continue to bear the load of minding the grandchildren and all those other responsibilities, she does need my support, and others’ as well. It has been hard for me to understand as I have watched her go through all these changes. I have learned that I do not need to understand but I simply need to be there, and she needs to know that I am not there expecting her to facilitate my normal standard of life, but rather there for her. I came home one day and she said to me, “Oh, I heard you were on ‘Loose Women’ today.” Right away, I felt the cold sweat on my brow and my heart missed a beat, and then I realised that it was because the hon. Member for Swansea East was asked on that programme whether there were any men who were supporting her, and she referred to me. My wife was then greatly encouraged when she realised that I was supportive of this.

I joined the APPG to highlight the fact that menopause is not an experience that a woman must suffer through alone; it is an experience in which we can all stand together as she comes through what can be a very difficult time in her life. It is an experience that men must better understand to provide the help and support that will change the experience. It is an experience that is a certainty of life for most ladies, but women do not have to walk alone. That is why on this World Menopause Day I am proud say that I stand alongside my wife, Sandra, my mother and indeed every other woman to offer my support and encourage other men to understand that we can make a difference and be a help. That is our role—to help.

I commend the hon. Member for Bradford South (Judith Cummins) for the work that she does on osteo-porosis. A prolonged lack of oestrogen affects the bones and the cardiovascular system, leaving those who are post-menopausal at increased risk of a number of long-term conditions such as osteoporosis. Women’s Health Concern, the patient arm of the British Menopause Society, emphasises that, unlike hot flushes—it is important for the Minister to address this when she responds—there are often no obvious symptoms of osteoporosis and the first sign is usually the fracture of a bone. The hon. Lady illustrated that only too well.

Osteoporosis makes bones fragile, which causes painful and disabling fractures. Women aged over 45 years spend more days in hospital due to osteoporosis than diabetes, heart attack or breast cancer, and osteoporotic or fragility fractures can have a profound impact on everyday life, causing loss of independence, misery and death. A post-menopausal woman has a 50% chance of sustaining an osteoporosis-related fracture in her lifetime. Once a fragility fracture has occurred, the risk of future fractures at least doubles. In women over 50 years of age, the lifetime risk of a vertebral fracture is one in three and is one in five for a hip fracture. The link is clear. I commend the hon. Lady, and others as well, for outlining that. I congratulate the International Menopause Society on highlighting this issue as a real and present danger that occurs after menopause.

I end with a further plea to all the men who are in this House and all the men who are watching on the screens outside: do not be embarrassed but be involved. Help your partner. Be informed about what your partner is going through and be part of the process and a help. I know what it is to feel helpless, and sometimes even clueless, as I am often reminded in my home by my good lady, but I have learned the truth of the scripture: two are better than one, for if one falls, the other is there to help them up. I may not have the right words—I often do not; although I have lots of words, I often maybe do not have the right ones—but kindness and understanding is worth more than an encyclopaedia. I encourage families to be involved and be of use.

Eighty per cent. of women suffer from menopausal symptoms; 100% of women deserve support. That is what we are calling for today—support from Government, support from employers, and support in families. I commend the hon. Member for Swansea East, and the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) as well, for putting forward this case. I hope that, as a man, I have made a worthwhile contribution.

Covid-19 Update

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Government’s vaccine roll-out has been a success story, but it is important that we continue that success story. I had the flu jab three weeks ago and I will have my covid booster in about four weeks. All sorts of constituents have contacted me to ask why they have been called for a third primary dose of the vaccine along with their flu jab. Are the Government considering a wider publicity campaign to clarify the reason behind the third jab, the criteria for the booster and the need for the flu jab as well at the same time?

[Maggie Throup]

A communications programme has been rolled out this week to encourage people to get their booster and their flu jab, and to get whichever comes first and then the other as soon as it is available.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Gillian Keegan]

I look forward to working with my right hon. Friend. I have been along to the first board, although I have not yet chaired it. But we will be developing that action plan. I cannot commit to the date but I will let him know as soon as I can when we will publish the plan. We will be publishing a winter plan for the NHS, which will include lots of different support, in the next couple of weeks.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her response. Given recent statistics that show that one in 20 schoolchildren in Northern Ireland has an autism diagnosis, may I ask her what steps have been taken here on the mainland to ensure that children with learning disabilities or autism have guidance in their health journey and are never left overwhelmed without specialised support at those very necessary appointments?

[Gillian Keegan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. He is right to identify this concern. Compared with the general population, people with learning disabilities are three times more likely to die from an avoidable medical cause of death. That is why these annual health checks to ensure that we get early diagnoses for these people are so important. That is why I am delighted that many people are coming forward and that the NHS is two years ahead of its plan here in England. Hopefully, others will follow that lead.

Future of the National Health Service

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak and listen in this debate. I thank the hon. Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon) for setting the scene and all those who have made contributions. Every one of us is definitely agreed on one thing: the importance of the NHS, what it does and what it has done over time. If we needed further reinforcement of that, what we have seen in the past year has told us. In my family, I lost my mother-in-law to covid, so I do understand. During those difficult times for families, health service workers are there, masked up and doing their best to try to preserve life.

As my party’s health spokesperson, I must emphasise the importance of the NHS and highlight the issues of concern for my constituents, to ensure that the future of the NHS is maintained and provides hope to those who currently feel that it is not being maintained in the way that it should. It is a devolved matter, as the Minister knows. During the 18 months of the pandemic, we might have taken our NHS for granted in a way. We did not take the staff for granted; that is not the point I am making. The point is, the NHS was there, we depended on it and it was important to have it in place to help out. I put my thanks on record to all those healthcare workers across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I know we clapped the NHS staff. I live out in the countryside but, believe it or not, I could hear the clapping starting three miles up the road. I could hear the clapping in the midnight air from people in the village of Greyabbey down the road. People were out in numbers creating that crescendo of noise. We need to galvanise public compassion and our sense of community and wartime spirit to restore to the NHS the pride we have. I look to the Minister to do that.

This is a debate about the NHS, but the Northern Ireland protocol is preventing 910 medicines from getting into Northern Ireland. That will have an impact on the NHS. It is not the Minister’s responsibility, but would he convey to the relevant Minister the importance of our having medications that are available in the rest of the United Kingdom? They are available on the mainland, but we cannot get them in Northern Ireland. It is terribly frustrating, and a further 2,400 medicines may be at risk. It is an important issue, and it is an NHS issue. It needs to be on record.

I feel that the prioritisation of treatments and services are at the forefront of the future of the NHS. Too many people are awaiting cancer treatment. I am pleased that the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is here. His story is a personal one. I remember speaking to him in the Chamber. I did not quite know what was happening, but I had not seen him for a while, and I did notice that there was a scar on the back of his head.

[Chris Bryant]

A scar?

[Jim Shannon]

Well, I noticed it after the surgery. Our NHS saved our honourable Friend’s life. It is good to hear his personal story as well.

Health reconfiguration is crucial to ensure that our NHS is held to its highest standard. By the same token, these changes must be assessed to ensure that they benefit the future of the NHS. We want the correct funding. I hope that the Minister will reaffirm that he will encourage the Secretary of State to undertake discussions with his counterparts in the devolved institutions to weigh up how this will impact on other parts of the United Kingdom. People are waiting for life-saving cancer treatment, and people are waiting years for a consultation. Unfortunately, some of my constituents waited and did not get the surgery. They did not get their diagnosis early on and some of them are not here today. That is the reality of the waiting times that we all worry about.

The King’s Fund states that

“even under the most optimistic circumstances outlined in the NHS Five Year Forward View, an additional eight billion a year in funding was to be needed by 2020.”

We are already a year behind. If we want to protect and maintain our NHS, we must ensure that the correct funds are in place to secure its future in the United Kingdom. I urge the Minister to listen to NHS workers and focus on what they are telling us. The Minister needs to protect their jobs and livelihoods and the NHS.

Covid-19: Vaccination of Children

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 21st September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates) on bringing forward the debate. We had a discussion beforehand about her ideas for the thrust of the debate, and I have to say that my ideas concur with hers. Much of what I will say has been put forward already.

It is good to see the Minister in her place. I wish her well in her new role. I look forward to working with her on issues that we will find we have an interest in. I am also pleased to see the shadow Minister in her place. She and I have many things in common, and one is Leicester City football club. We are perhaps not doing as well at the moment as we could do, but we look forward to better days in the future.

My boys are grown up and I am now at the grandparent stage. I do not have as much of a role to play in the childminding as my wife does, but I understand that this morning she started childminding at 5 am, which is an early slot, because the two boys’ parents are working, one from 5 am and the other coming back at 8 am. I know that Government have always been of the opinion that families are core and central to society, and that is what I want to see as well.

Of my grandchildren, the two biggest girls have isolated on two or three occasions. I am glad to say that they have never had covid, but none the less that is the system: if one child in the class takes it, the whole class is out. I concur with the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge that we need a better system so that we do not necessarily have to go to those lengths every time.

I am vaccinated, and very pleased to be so. I believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine, but I also believe in reasoned parental consent. I believe that parents have a right to determine the best course of action, in co-ordination with medical staff on best practice. I put questions about this to the former vaccines Minister, the right hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), last week and the week before in the Chamber. I respect him greatly, because he is very good at his job and committed. However, I was not totally convinced by his answers. I say that respectfully because I was not sure that the final decision would always lie with the parents.

I am encouraged by the news this morning that 89.1% now have double jabs and 81.3% have single jabs. We are moving in the right direction, so there is good news on the vaccine front. The medical evidence is by no means empirical at this stage. There are strong suggestions that

“new scientific advice does not endorse universal vaccination of all children over 12 in the UK”.

If scientists are saying that, we cannot ignore them. They are saying:

“The latest advice recommends that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine should be offered to a wider number of children directly at risk from covid-19, and to children living with an immunosuppressed person. There is very good evidence that children who have covid-19 are much less likely to develop severe symptoms and much less likely to die from the disease than adults. While rare in children, serious outcomes from covid-19 have been studied in this group. The strongest risk factor is having some underlying health problems, including neurological and cardiac conditions or complex neuro-disability.”

The hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge referred to those with disabilities. Reuben, the son of my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), came home from school 10 days ago. Out of his class of 28, 26 children had covid. They had to self-isolate because my hon. Friend has asthma, and his case is quite serious. While we have to do things, there must genuinely be a better way. It is not the Minister’s responsibility to respond for education, but I am keen to find out what discussions she has had with Education Ministers on this issue, and how we could better handle it. That is what I would like to see.

My parliamentary private secretary has two children. One comes home from school and has to isolate because someone in the class has got covid, though they have not. They potentially bring it in to the house. I cannot understand, and neither can she, why they cannot go back to school. They have to isolate from the classroom but can interact with the family, including a sister who is in a different class. We need to have a better way of looking at that.

In my opinion, some parents may decide, following medical advice, that the jab is the safer option. The starting point must be that it is a matter of opting in, not opting out. I have read some incredibly interesting data from Israel that suggests that immunity gained after recovering from a bout of covid-19 is more protective against the new delta variant than vaccine-induced immunity. Natural immunity was estimated to be about 13 times stronger than having two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. Natural immunity should be key to how we deal with this.

Added to that are our own data that show that children do not tend to become seriously ill. To me that underlines the importance of the Government allowing parents to determine. In saying that, there must not be any pressure applied by schools, such as restricting after-school sports clubs without vaccination proof. A child needs a normal life. The hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge referred to the impact on children’s mental health. The figures for Northern Ireland show that the effect on mental health, even for children at primary school, is greater than ever. We need social interaction. That is why I am pleased to be back in Parliament and to have social interaction with people again, which is the way it should be. It is also important for children at school. The hon. Lady also referred to obesity, which it is important to put into perspective. The role of parents in physical health at school and home is critical.

Sometimes people go overboard on restrictions that are not always necessary. We need to be aware of how covid safety should be carried out while having a normal life and protecting children, yet making parental input central and critical. I will finish with this comment: I believe in the vaccine and am totally committed to what it has done. It has given us a leadership in the world through our vaccination programme, and I thank the Minister and the Government for their leadership.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

I picked up on the hon. Gentleman’s comments earlier about being sociable and being back in this place, and I did not want him to sit down having made a speech without being intervened on, as he is probably one of the most social Members across the House. Well done.

[Dame Angela Eagle (in the Chair)]

The sociable Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Our friendship goes back to when our offices used to be across from each other on the same corridor, and I am very pleased to renew it again in this House.

I believe that we have seen a decline in covid due to the vaccine, and the benefits are clear to see. However, from a child’s perspective the tale is very different, and parental consent, hand in hand with medical guidance in specific cases, must be the way we move forward. I believe that is what we should be doing. I am pleased to have had the debate and I thank the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge again for securing it. I look forward to other contributions, which I hope will endorse what we have all said.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

I am pretty sure I will not. I congratulate the Minister, who until last week was my favourite Whip and is now the vaccines Minister. It is a great honour to do that job, and I am sad we have to come up against this particular policy because across the board the vaccine programme has been remarkable. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates) on securing the debate. The issue is agitating and concerning, and enormous numbers of people, including parents, schools and many others, feel it is a step too far.

I am a Conservative. I joined the Conservative party because of a belief in giving people freedom of choice, the ability to deliver and develop their own destiny, and the opportunity to live full, vibrant and fulfilling lives. I think this particular policy goes right against that, and I feel uncomfortable with it. It feels wrong, and I believe it is wrong to introduce this vaccination programme for children aged 12 to 15, considering all that has been said about consent this morning. Before I get started, may I just say that I feel privileged to be in this room where such great points and speeches have been made, because we care about families, children and how our schools are supported in a very difficult and unprecedented time?

Earlier in the year I went to visit St Clare medical centre in my constituency, which was delivering the vaccine programme with great fervour. It has an amazing system going on. In fact, with other primary care networks in my constituency, it was mentioned in dispatches for the incredible effort it put in to get the vaccine out to the most vulnerable people. My constituency was the fifth in the country in getting the most people vaccinated by the February half term.

I observed the logistical challenge and triumph of rolling out the vaccine programme and talked to the practice manager. She described why the additional workload was acceptable: a massive volunteer army was motivated and mobilised, there was an incredible collaboration of GPs, the NHS and all sorts of organisations that had got behind this, and there was organisation across the primary care networks. She said that all of that extra effort—the long weekends and the massive amount of work that went into it—was possible and worthwhile because it was part of the national effort. It really struck home that people right down at the end of the country, in the most beautiful part, who are often tucked away and not necessarily engaged in national efforts, were so enthusiastic and determined to make this work. West Cornwall primary care networks were mentioned by the Secretary of State at the time for their incredible effort in getting vaccines to people in such a quick and effective way.

During the roll-out of the vaccine programme, Ministers fiercely defended the decisions made by the JCVI. The JCVI determined the priority groups—who would get the vaccine and when—and Ministers refused to intervene. They were determined not to intervene, not even to prioritise teachers as schools opened in September last year. They refused to intervene to prioritise the police when some 10,000 policemen descended on my constituency in Cornwall for the G7. There was great concern about that, but Ministers refused to intervene to allow police officers of all ages to have the vaccine ahead of the priority groups set out by the JCVI. Why now, with the help of the chief medical officers, do the Government reject the advice of the JCVI? That advice states:

“The margin of benefit…is considered too small to support advice on a universal programme of vaccination of otherwise healthy 12 to 15-year-old children”.

It also says that

“any impact on transmission may be relatively small”.

In other words, schools would still be disrupted because the vaccine does not manage transmission. I, along with many others, recognise the wisdom of the JCVI’s advice JCVI in this area. We were surprised when, just weeks later, the Government and chief medical officer seemed to take a completely different course. I was relieved when the JCVI made its case and gave that very sound advice. Like many others, I was then disappointed and concerned that the Government seemed to go against it.

The reason for my concern is that the decision to override the JCVI advice will undermine confidence in the vaccine roll-out programme. Up until now, because of the way the JCVI has operated, the country has welcomed the approach, has supported it and had confidence in it. I wonder whether the Government are actually doing it a disservice by potentially undermining confidence in the roll-out. So far, the great strength of the vaccine roll-out is its voluntary nature, based on sound advice and a national united effort.

My fear is that the decision has been made for seemingly unsubstantiated reasons. There are gaping holes in the argument that it will minimise disruption of children’s education. My fear is that it risks turning a national effort into a tool to pressure children, undermine parents and drive an inadvertent wedge between families and schools. Under a new Secretary of State, the Government’s primary priority should be allowing schools to do what they do best: educating children. I ought to declare an interest as I have three children, who are in school at this very moment—or so I hope.

At the beginning of the year, I secured an Adjournment debate on the experience of schools. They have had a blooming rotten time, with changing advice and all sorts of things coming down from Government; they did not know if they were coming or going. What has really concerned schools, teachers and headteachers is that they have taken on a new role—trying to manage children’s health and parts of their welfare—that they never signed up for. It is not that they are unwilling, but that they do not have the time or resources, and they might even add the expertise, to take on those additional responsibilities when what they want is to educate children and give them the best start in life.

All Members’ constituency offices have supported schools in the bizarre work they have had to do to manage parents on different sides of different arguments when it comes to managing covid in schools. I have had parents who are furious with a school for insisting on face coverings in parts of the school, both before that was the official advice and since; I have also had parents furious with a school for saying children do not have to wear a face covering in the classroom. Those poor headteachers and staff have had to deal with that along with all the pressures of teaching children.

What do we do? We make their job a whole lot more difficult by putting schools at the centre of a decision that most of us in this room do not believe is robust or stands up to what scientists have said. We have asked them to take on the additional responsibility of vaccinating 12 to 15-year-olds, and to manage the various pressures that come with it, when all they want to do—all they thought they were doing—is go back to school in September, catch up and give their children a happy, healthy and wonderful experience being educated. I really feel for our children.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman has referred to one school where there were different opinions between parents about their children. There are different opinions in schools, but it is important to have a policy that is uniform across all schools. Does he feel that when the Minister replies, she could mention any discussions with the Secretary of State for Education about having a uniform policy which applies to all schools? Then the schools would have one rule they could all adhere to.

[Derek Thomas]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, because I was going to come on to that. We are entering into a very difficult situation. We need to protect schools and enable them to do their job, not drive a wedge between parents and schools. At the same time, we want schools to be very clear about their responsibilities and how they can manage issues of coercion, peer pressure and so on. It is a tricky issue for the Minister to grapple with.

I would like the Minister to ensure and confirm three things. I imagine that it will make up the vast majority of her work over the next few weeks, now that the Government have made their decision. Obviously, many of us would rather they had ditched that decision and instead made sure that the vaccine got to people in developing countries who really need it. If we really care about keeping this country and the rest of the western world safe—if that is our priority—then supporting the vaccination of the whole world, instead of our children, is the answer. However, that is a separate issue that the vaccines Minister probably cannot address on her own.

In line with the intervention I have just received, can the Minister make it absolutely clear that parents have the information they need, that they understand their rights, and that they are very clear about schools’ role in providing the vaccine and supporting children to have the vaccine, if that is what parents wish for their children? Can we also ensure that the vaccine is given only when informed and voluntary consent is clearly given—when it is definitely there, free from peer pressure and coercion?

We are now asking schools to somehow play referee in a situation that should never be in their remit. The desire to get on top of covid and get things going again could lead to a situation where things go wrong and become difficult in the school environment.