Local Museums

Ian Murray Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2026 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Creative Industries, Media and Arts (Ian Murray)]

It is a great pleasure to see you in the Chair again, Ms Lewell. I do not know what you have done to upset someone—you are in the Chair constantly—but thank you very much indeed for chairing this debate. It is a great pleasure to respond to it.

I echo the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing the debate. What a tremendous champion for her constituency she is. We could probably conclude the debate now with me saying that Edinburgh is the permanent city of culture in this country—it does not need a prize to be told that; it has some of the best museums. We could put that to a debate if Members so wish.

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the tremendous value of local museums, history and culture in our constituencies. The Purfleet Heritage and Military Centre, which we have heard a lot about, is an excellent example of a museum working for and with its local community. It tells the varied local histories of its community with pride, from Purfleet’s national impact as a key player in the UK’s military and industrial story, to the town’s links to Bram Stoker and Dracula—although we have heard some debate about whether it is indeed the home of Dracula. That is not to forget the museum’s sell-out ghost tours. I think I have seen an advert saying that tickets are still available for the tours coming up at Halloween.

The Purfleet Heritage and Military Centre achieves all that without any paid staff at all; it is entirely volunteer-led, like 30% of museums in England. I pay tribute to the immense contribution that volunteers make in sustaining our local museums, transmitting local history and identity to new generations, and preserving our proud heritage. I congratulate those volunteers—Trevor, Polly, Ollie, Sylak, Jeff, Phillip, Claire, Yvette, and, of course, Alan and Sue Gosling—and thank them for all they do for the Purfleet Heritage and Military Centre. Alan has passed away, but he left a significant legacy. I thank them for all they do.

As noteworthy as Purfleet is, I am pleased to say that it is not an isolated case across the country. Today, I have had the privilege of outlining the vital role that museums up and down the country play in celebrating our local and national stories. As civic institutions, integral to our national and local cultural life, they are hugely valuable as places of learning, community and, of course, entertainment. This Government are committed to championing our local museums, and to working in partnership with councils and communities across the country to see them flourish for the future.

[John Slinger]

On my right hon. Friend’s point about working closely with local councils, will he join me in congratulating Rugby borough council on its work in running the superb Rugby Art Gallery and Museum? It is currently exhibiting its entire art collection as well as a history of Rugby in 50 objects, and is planning an exciting expansion in the coming years. I am sure its staff would be very grateful if my right hon. Friend might get on the West Coast Main Line and visit to see their excellent work and their plans to reach out even more effectively to our community in future.

[Ian Murray]

I can certainly congratulate everyone in Rugby, and especially at the museum, on that particular project. Throughout the course of this debate, I have been invited to a number of museums across the country. I am very happy to report that it is not my ministerial responsibility, so I will accept all those visits on behalf of Baroness Twycross in the other place; I am sure she will have a lovely time touring the country.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) mentioned the Brunel Museum and the work that it does. I was struck by the fact that it has the very first boring machine in Britain, and by that did in terms of building under the Thames, and all that infrastructure of the industrial revolution. Now, I would perhaps suggest that my hon. Friend is the very definition of a boring machine, and that is why I think he quite rightly represents the Brunel Museum.

[Neil Coyle]

Ms Lewell, given all the references to Dracula, I am tempted to point out what a shame it is that none of the bloodsuckers from Reform is here. Given the point the Minister has just made, I invite him—and colleagues—to visit the Golden Hinde in my constituency. We have corresponded regarding the Golden Hinde, because it has been the pearl of Bankside in Southwark for 30 years, and next year is the 450th anniversary of the original Golden Hinde setting sail—the first British vessel to circumnavigate the globe. However, because of its unique status, the Golden Hinde struggles to access funds. Can the Minister outline how he is expanding the museum renewal fund and working with the British Business Bank to ensure that such unique museums can access resources and continue their fantastic work in communities such as mine? I hope that was not too boring a point.

[Ian Murray]

My hon. Friend proves my point! But yes, he raises a key point about funding for not just large and national museums, but local ones. We have been trying to put together a package of measures for museums and for culture across the whole country, consisting of everything that is written into the creative industries sector plan.

The key part there is for the British Business Bank to look at new financial models to help museums and the cultural and creative parts of the industry, but it is also about philanthropy and making sure that we have that corporate sponsorship as well. There is also public funding through Arts Council England and the money that DCMS is directly putting into museums.

Of course, a key part of that is local authorities, which have been hollowed out over the last 15 years. The hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) was right to mention that culture—including museums—is one of the first things to fall off a local authority’s agenda when it is struggling to pay for key statutory services. Those are all things that this Government are trying to fix, but I am very happy to talk to my hon. Friend further about the Golden Hinde in particular.

This Government believe that arts and culture should be available to everyone, everywhere, regardless of background and location. We are committed to broadening access to culture so that everyone has the opportunity to explore our shared heritage and feel connected in some way. We have heard that from right across the country today, so I will just concentrate on a few of the contributions that have been made.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock was correct in the way she presented this issue on behalf of her communities. She asked a number of questions about recognising the value of small museums and making more small grants available. I can tell her that small museums are an essential part of our national tapestry of museums and we very much recognise that as a Department. Indeed, 40% of all museums are small attractions with fewer than 10,000 visitors, and our funding streams must reflect that in what we are trying to achieve.

Our museum estate and development—or MEND—fund is open to museums of all sizes. Capital grants do require some paperwork, but the Hodge review into Arts Council England, which my hon. Friend will be aware of, is considering a proportionate application process for smaller museums, particularly those run by volunteers, to try to ensure that it is as easy and streamlined as possible for the very smallest museums and organisations to apply for those kinds of funds. That is very much at the forefront of our mind.

The hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Dr Mullan) and I discussed this topic in last week’s Adjournment debate on the Bayeux tapestry, and he is absolutely right to showcase what his part of the country does for our culture and heritage. He also talked about the transparency of funding, reorganisation and infrastructure in local authorities, which the Hodge review deals with very clearly. I appreciate that not all museums are part of Arts Council England, and there is a process to become accredited. We must ensure that local authorities regularly produce plans on updating arts, culture and museums, so that the public can then hold them to account. We are actively considering that matter in response to the Hodge review.

My hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Terry Jermy) mentioned “Dad’s Army”—I think “Don’t tell him, Pike!” was the other quote. Indeed, the statue of Captain Mainwaring in his constituency is fantastic, and it shows the real breadth of what we are talking about: ranging all the way from “Dad’s Army” to Dracula and industrial heritage, as well as all the other things that museums do so well.

The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Tom Gordon) talked about how museums help town centres to thrive, and that is key to regenerating them. He asked about a meeting about saving Knaresborough castle; my hon. Friend in the other place, Baroness Twycross, would be delighted to meet him, and I will ensure that it happens.

My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) highlighted how the Tullie House museum is an international home for curation. It is also near to Hadrian’s wall, which I have a special interest in: I think that we should preserve Hadrian’s wall, or even build it a bit higher—some of my nationalist colleagues would certainly agree with that. I also congratulate my hon. Friend on her lobbying for Durham to be city of culture.

I know that DCMS officials had the pleasure of attending the reopening of Tullie House following the remarkable makeover that we heard about this afternoon. I hear that the museum’s new galleries fantastically showcase the area’s history, and that its nationally important history collections, reorganised by the Arts Council, are of outstanding significance—congratulations on that and on the funding that has been put in.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) does not miss an opportunity to participate in these debates; he talked about the Titanic museum, and his titanic contributions should surely mean that he has an exhibition there. I am sure that every Member would be delighted to visit the special exhibition, “Jim Shannon has intervened in the Adjournment debate”, and see what that has to offer. He is a great champion for Northern Ireland’s museums and culture.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy (Melanie Ward) is looked on with admiration and envy by a lot of colleagues for the way in which she has championed her local area and secured £20 million to transform Kirkcaldy city centre, due to her tenacity in representing her constituents. She talked about how local museums keep that local history alive, mentioning Adam Smith and Jennie Lee. I know that the Jennie Lee lecture is now part of the suite of things that the DCMS does, so I am very keen to take that forward.

My hon. Friend specifically mentioned the campaign by church leaders in Scotland on the places of worship fund. I would like to spend 30 seconds on this subject, because I think it is really important, as church buildings are part of our heritage. The Government extended the listed places of worship scheme to 31 March this year, or until the £23 million figure is exhausted. That was a VAT reclaim scheme of up to £25,000, with an average claim of about £3,000, but that has now been exhausted.

We have replaced that scheme with the £92 million places of worship renewal fund, but that applies only to England, and the Scottish part of the churches renewal fund is a devolved function for the Scottish Government. The £92 million that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has put into this new fund comes from our departmental budget in the spending review, so the Barnett consequential will also have come as part of the spending review. We are spending that budget; if the Scottish Government wish to replicate the VAT reclaim scheme, or introduce a new scheme for Scottish churches, they have the power and the money to do so. I would encourage Scottish churches to get in touch with the Scottish Government on that matter.

[Euan Stainbank (Falkirk) (Lab)]

Does the Minister share my concern that, rather than increasing funding for Historic Environment Scotland, the Scottish Government appear to have cut it by £3.7 million in last week’s Budget?

[Ian Murray]

The key thing is that responsibility lies with the Scottish Government, and it is for them to determine how they spend the money. I am very clear in acknowledging and understanding the concerns of Scottish churches about no longer having access to the UK-wide VAT reclaim scheme. The UK Government have introduced a scheme for England, and the Scottish Government have to determine how they spend their budget, and whether they introduce a scheme for Scotland. However, based on the Budget they have just passed, they seem to have reduced the funding for historical places, rather than increase it. I encourage all those in the Scottish diaspora to get in touch with the Scottish Government to push the Culture Secretary to replace that scheme.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Dr Gardner) represents the centre of the world for the Potteries. I feel as if I live in Longton, I have heard so much about it in the lobbying that is going on for town of culture. I am very happy to be bribed further.

[Dr Mullan]

The right hon. Member helpfully reminds me that I forgot to mention that Bexhill is also putting itself forward for town of culture. I am happy to bribe him any time.

[Ian Murray]

Sir Phil Redmond is chairing the panel to determine which will be the first town of culture, and I do not envy his task. I met him last week, and we went through the number of applications—it is not public yet, but it is significant. It probably covers the constituencies of almost half the Members of Parliament. It is going to be tough. We may need to come together, across parties and as a Parliament, to celebrate everywhere that has entered the competition to make sure they get something out of it. Winning is important, but the process of taking part will help arts and culture right across the country.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Since we have a little time, we should congratulate the whole sector for making museums so much more engaging and fun. I remember being dragged to museums when I was young. They were boring places to be, and I could just about survive for half an hour. These days, museums are places where people really want to stay, because the whole sector has been transformed into something with which everybody can engage. We should take this opportunity to congratulate the museum sector for all it has done in the last generation.

[Ian Murray]

We should congratulate everyone involved. The way that we curate and develop museums is renowned across the world. Many countries look to the UK for the expertise to build their own capability, because we do the best museums and exhibitions in the world and have the best skills. Congratulations to all of them.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South wants to talk about the Lunar Gardens project. Baroness Twycross will be delighted to talk to her about that, and we will make sure my hon. Friend has an appropriate meeting in place as soon as possible.

My hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) talked about her three children, and how museums are a key component of the local community and education. She also talked about entertainment and telling the stories of the past that shaped future generations. I have a five-year-old and a one-year-old, and my five-year-old loves being in museums. He loves looking at the exhibitions, but he loves just being in big spaces he can enjoy and run around in. I do not know if Dracula is a son of Derby, but it is something that we should perhaps debate further, maybe in an Adjournment debate with the lights out.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Douglas McAllister) is absolutely right that Denny’s shipyard built the Cutty Sark, and it celebrates the proud innovation and heritage of shipbuilding on the Clyde. It might not be an entirely accurate statistic, but I think I am right in saying that, 150 years ago, 90% of the ships sailing anywhere in the world were built either on the Clyde or somewhere near the Clyde. That innovation and heritage has to be respected and celebrated. He rightly talked about the local pride of maintaining and developing local museums that tell local stories. I think the statistics show that 89% of adults say that museums are important to their local pride and local culture.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) said that Captain Cook would probably have been a constituent 300 years ago. I would probably describe him as an L5Y—only half the Chamber will know what I am talking about. Again, Baroness Twycross will be delighted to meet my hon. Friend to talk about some of the issues he has with museums in his constituency. He said something important that sums up the whole debate: “Some museums are small in scale but enormous in impact.” That is great for telling local stories. It is the impact on young people, schools and heritage that he is talking about. He also talked about the Land of Iron getting a national title. Arts Council England, via accreditation, will consider all requests from museums to become nationally styled where they have a strong story and strong case to make.

On the Captain Cook Museum, Middlesbrough council museums were awarded £240,000 from the museum renewal fund last year, and the Land of Iron was awarded a MEND grant worth £650,000 in February last year, so we are supporting those museums. For the hon. Member for Bath, we had 93% satisfaction for her speech as well. She talked about what is happening with the Bath museums, and she talked about museums closing and the delicate position that many local museums, particularly smaller ones, are in.

I do not want to diminish the seriousness of a lot of the stories we have heard about our local museums, but an independent academic study has found that since 2000 the number of museums in the UK has risen. Despite the 500 closures since 2000, there have been more new museums in the UK, although it has plateaued since about 2015-16. There is a lot of work to do, but it is not all bad news in our museum sector. Arts Council England supports the museums and schools programme with £1.2 million a year to make sure it happens.

It is wonderful that the shadow Minister has some Dracula jokes, but they are so old that perhaps they should be in a museum themselves. However, museums need local authority funding. We should not turn this into a political debate, as it has been so collegiate today, but the last Government, during their 14 years in power, completely and utterly decimated local authority funding right across the country. That was the starting point for culture and arts to be diminished—they are not statutory, so they fall away.

On the Hodge review, Arts Council England has been looking not only at how local authorities can be better supported but at how they can be better held to account for what they do on arts and culture. Hopefully, the review will come through and we can respond very soon.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon (Gregory Stafford), made a strange point about freedom of speech and editorial freedom. I do not think it is for the Government or the Opposition, or indeed any politician, to tell museums how they should celebrate our heritage. Many of the political issues we are dealing with today relate to the past. Some of the best museums in the world that I have visited address political issues such as slavery, and we should make sure that we maintain that approach. Actually, a lot of the stories we tell in politics today are not new—they are stories of the past—and I hope the public engage with them, and the public will determine whether they are good things to reflect.

[Gregory Stafford]

I think I made the point very clearly to the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft), but I will repeat it now. My concern is not about museums representing accurately what happened in the past—that is obvious. What I am against is museums using taxpayers’ money to push a current political cause. Extinction Rebellion is not a historical organisation. It is active now, and museums should not be pushing its agenda.

[Ian Murray]

I do not want to get into a debate about Extinction Rebellion or any other organisation, but I feel obliged to respond directly to that point. If my five-year-old daughter sees an exhibition on Extinction Rebellion and starts to talk about climate and other current political issues, I think that is what museums are there to do. They are not just there to celebrate heritage and the past; they are there to educate and inspire for the future. We do not have to agree with any of those exhibitions. In fact, I have not particularly agreed with some of the exhibitions and creative curation I have seen, but I have still engaged with them to be able to have a political debate.

[Dr Mullan]

Members of Parliament and the public are also perfectly within their rights to say that they think they are a bad idea. It is a free speech issue, as much as anything. If a museum wants to put on an exhibition and then introduce all sorts of other political elements, the museum’s members and politicians—all of us—are perfectly free to say that we think it is a bad idea and a bad use of time. What is wrong with that?

[Ian Murray]

It seems to me that some Opposition parties like to be bastions of freedom of speech until they disagree with what that freedom of speech is used to say.

[Gregory Stafford]

It is taxpayers’ money.

[Ian Murray]

It is all taxpayers’ money and public money, and it is the public’s money as well. The public can decide whether they wish to attend these exhibitions. They can even ask their local museums to put on other curations. However, it is important to see that in the context of what our museums do. We might not agree with everything we see—in fact, we might agree with only a small proportion of all the stuff we see—but we should be exposed to it. That is what art and culture have been doing for centuries: expressing views. Looking at a painting is just about as politically expressive as seeing an exhibition about Extinction Rebellion.

I am conscious of time, so let me conclude by saying two more things. First, I will say a little about the vital role that museums play in schools and communities. For example, the Essex Fire Museum in Grays, in the Thurrock constituency, is a brilliant example of a museum partnering with schools in its local area to deliver practical, hands-on education that engages children in learning environments outside the classroom. The museum runs an impressive learning programme in schools, offering immersive experience of fire service history, as well as sessions designed to engage children with subjects such as home safety, cyber-safety and the environment.

Arts Council England’s museums and schools programme, which is funded by DCMS, works with 18 museum partnerships across the country—from Blackburn to Scarborough to Bristol—providing money to connect museums with local schools. The programme reaches over 200,000 pupils across the country, which is key.

There is also placemaking and tourism, of course, as they are great drivers of footfall, and not just on our high streets but anywhere there is a museum. They drive footfall towards the areas where we want people to spend their money. Reviving our town centres is a key component of what the Government want to achieve. The average museum contributes nearly £350,000 to its local economy through visitor numbers alone.

The role of local museums, as the cultural heart of our communities, in protecting, exploring and sharing our diverse local stories is undeniable. Today we have heard examples of the immense and varied contributions that museums have made across the country. The Government will not neglect local museums. We have committed significant new funding to the sector— historically high funding—and forthcoming publications and policies, including our response to the Hodge review, will further our commitment to the museums sector right across the country. That will outline the breadth of our ambitions for the sector, now and into the future. I thank all hon. Members for championing their local museums.