Baroness Harman
Main Page: Baroness Harman (Labour - Life peer)
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
It is simplistic to complain only about the cuts the BBC is facing. We need to take into account the broader economic perspective. Instead of adopting the top-down approach of considering where savings can be made, our starting point should be to ask the following question: what do we want the BBC to do and to achieve? Let me say at the outset that I am a strong supporter of the BBC. The quality of its output is first class, and it covers subjects that no commercial operator would consider addressing. It responds positively to education and social needs and demands. As a public service broadcaster, it ticks all the boxes and more. However, in doing the “and more” part, does it stifle competition and squeeze out competitors, thereby reducing plurality of provision? A guaranteed licence fee income of £3.5 billion and a total income of £5 billion puts the BBC in a strongly favourable position compared with providers who have to deal with fluctuating advertising income and economic unpredictability.
Critics of BBC budget cuts need to recognise that it may well be able to operate more efficiently in some of the many areas of its output, and, indeed, that it might not need to operate in all those areas, as other providers may be better placed to cover them. To the credit of the BBC—and the Secretary of State for Wales—freezing the licence fee has resulted in its being forced to look at what it does, and the Delivering Quality First agenda is the outcome, although I would suggest that it should be the start of its reaching the desired outcome.
I want the BBC to start by focusing on what other providers might do and what capacity they may have for providing entertainment and information, as the BBC must ask itself how it can ensure that it strikes an appropriate balance in services and subject areas while representing all parts of the nations and regions of the United Kingdom. How can it contribute to innovation, rather than squeeze out competition? Should it operate in every area where there are commercial alternatives, such as in the market that Radio 1 covers? Plurality and news output to target audiences must be considered of course, but do we need to continue with the same traditional approach?
It may be unfashionable to mention James Murdoch at present, and I would condemn him if he were to be found guilty of any of the allegations that have been made.
Alun Cairns
If the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) wants to intervene on that point, I will happily respond.
James Murdoch has highlighted that when some years ago Radio 2 was losing its target audience of 24 to 45-year-olds, it paid millions of pounds to recruit Jonathan Ross to try to regain those listeners even though commercial operators already addressed that audience. If that is not an example of the BBC squeezing out competition, I do not know what is.
Does it make sense for the BBC to cover sporting events that ITV, Channels 4 or 5 or Sky would like to broadcast? I agree that we need to look at what should be free to air and whether pay per view is appropriate in all areas, but let us consider the example of Formula 1. The BBC has paid £300 million to screen Formula 1 over a five-year period. That amounts to £3 million per race, yet Sky will also broadcast every race. The partnership between Sky and the BBC is a significant and positive step forward, as it is certainly better than the previous situation of their competing outright, but two issues remain unresolved. First, could not ITV, Channels 4 or 5 or another broadcaster screen that popular sport? Secondly, the simple fact of the BBC bidding with public money will drive up the price and squeeze opportunities for others.
I recognise that the quality of the BBC can give it an edge over other broadcasters, but I remind Members that the BBC covered test match cricket for a long time, but the greatest innovations in the coverage of the sport occurred when the broadcasting rights were won by Channel 4 and then Sky, who took coverage to a much more sophisticated level. Innovations such as Hawk-Eye were introduced and a more informal approach to cricket attracted more viewers and new audiences.
I pay tribute to the BBC’s website coverage, which has set the standard for such output. It covers national and regional news in a structured way, and addresses subject matters across the spectrum from hard news to social gossip. It is an excellent example of the innovation the BBC can achieve. Yet if it continues to dominate this part of the market, that could prevent other providers—newspapers, broadcasters or even new entrants—from having the opportunity to innovate. The BBC set excellent standards, but it needs to consider whether there should be a subsequent, partial withdrawal when the market has matured.
I strongly support the BBC’s activities in areas where the market cannot provide. News in general is extremely important, and without the BBC’s news activities in many parts of the UK there simply would not be any coverage of significant news or social or cultural events. Wales and Scotland are of particular relevance in this regard, especially with the advent of devolution.
Other Members have talked about local television, so I shall now briefly address a parochial issue. The UK press does not always cover Wales as adequately as it should. This is where the BBC comes into its own of course, but in Wales its implementation of the Delivering Quality First agenda involves a squeeze on its political coverage. It argues that news is not being cut under the current proposals, yet there is a reduction in political output. Politics is news, so there is obviously a cut to news.
Although the BBC has, to its credit, responded well to devolution, that should not be achieved at the cost of coverage of non-devolved matters. Over recent years, there has been a trend to reduce political coverage on mainstream news outlets. Welsh questions have been covered on a mainstream outlet in Wales since 1987, but under current proposals that will no longer be the case.
Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith).
My hon. Friends the Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith), for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), and for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) put forward a compelling case for the BBC to think again about local radio. Surely the BBC will think again given the passion and the forensic arguments of hon. Members from all parts of the House.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell) for moving the motion and the members of the Backbench Business Committee for choosing BBC cuts, particularly in local radio, as the subject of today’s debate. It has been an excellent debate.
The importance of the BBC to Britain today is hard to overstate. The BBC has unparalleled breadth, depth, reach and appeal. It is, along with the NHS, one of the things about Britain that is most trusted and valued. It is a source of national pride for its quality and international impact. Whether through sport, drama or just Saturday night family viewing, the BBC is an integral part of life in this country. We all think that we bring up our children, but actually we do it in partnership with the BBC and CBeebies. The BBC is valued worldwide. We could have had a whole debate on just the BBC’s children’s programmes, the World Service, BBC news, the BBC’s sports coverage, or the importance of the Proms and the great BBC orchestras to music in this country.
I want to take this opportunity to address some points to the Secretary of State about his responsibility for the BBC. His responsibility is to ensure that the BBC remains strong and independent. If he wants a strong BBC, he will sometimes have to stand up for it, as we did, against the commercial sector. Of course it is important that we have a dynamic commercial broadcasting sector, but it was good that when we were in government the BBC got more channels on radio and TV, developed major online services and expanded into digital. Not surprisingly, that attracted opposition from the commercial sector, and we withstood the pressure. I hope that the Secretary of State will stand up for the BBC’s strength, independence and future development, and resist unwarranted pressure from the commercial sector. When and if he does that, he will have our full backing.
When it comes to fighting the BBC’s corner, is it not bizarre, as the right hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster) made clear, that the BBC has to pay Sky to carry its channels rather than the other way round? Why is it that when someone watches “Frozen Planet”, a BBC production, on Sky, the BBC has to pay Sky? In the next five years, the BBC will pay £50 million in satellite access fees, more than all the costs that the BBC is planning to take away from local radio and BBC Four combined. Surely that cannot be right.
Alun Cairns
If that is such a priority, why was the issue not addressed when the right hon. and learned Lady’s party was in government?
Ms Harman
Perhaps it should have been, but we are talking about the situation now and in future, especially in light of what has happened in the licence fee settlement, with which I shall deal in a few moments.
As well as standing up for the BBC against commercial pressure, the Secretary of State will need to stand up for it against some on his own side. Lord Justice Leveson’s inquiry and Ofcom are now examining media plurality in the wake of the Murdoch scandal. The dominance of the Murdoch empire, which was so much the root of the wrongdoing that is now being exposed, would have been even more dangerous without the BBC.
I do not think we will see James Murdoch repeat his attacks on the BBC any time soon, but some who support the anti-BBC stance that Murdoch set out in his 2009 Edinburgh lecture will see the Leveson proceedings and the Ofcom review as an opportunity to re-launch their attacks, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said. Those voices have kept away from the debate today, but we know that the view still lurks among some in the Secretary of State’s party and on his Back Benches. If he wants a strong BBC, he will need to stand up to some on his own side strongly and publicly. When he does that, again, he will have our strong support.
The Secretary of State needs to stand up for the independence of the BBC. At the heart of its independence is the licence fee, and that is why so much concern has been expressed in the House again today about how the deal on the licence fee was done last October. My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby talked about it as “Three Days in October—When Jeremy Terrorised Mark”. Actually, there was a prequel to that film: “Three Days in October—When George Terrorised Jeremy”. The Secretary of State, appearing to have failed to fight his Department’s corner with the Treasury and to have accepted cuts that were too deep, then imposed major new financial responsibilities on the BBC in a rushed deal behind closed doors, to be paid for from licence fee funds. One was the cost of the World Service.
The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Jeremy Hunt)
Will the right hon. and learned Lady explain why, if George terrorised Jeremy, the settlement for the BBC required it to make 16% efficiency savings compared with 19% cuts across the whole of the rest of Government?
Ms Harman
The Secretary of State could be saying that, in the context of deficit reduction, which the Opposition believe is happening too far and too fast, the settlement could have been even worse for his Department. I do not like to play Tory Cabinet Ministers off one against the other, but the Secretary of State for International Development secured an increase for his Department. The point is that what is happening in the BBC derives from the deal that was done in October.
Of course, like all organisations, the BBC should be efficient, but the agreement on the licence fee should be a settlement between the British public and the BBC; it should not be, or be seen to be, an opportunity for Government intervention in the BBC. That is why there should always be an open process, based on evidence and involving consultation, particularly with the public, who pay the licence fee and receive the service. But that is not what happened. The licence fee stands till 2017, which is after the next election, but I am asking the Secretary of State to acknowledge today that the way in which that was done was wrong, and that to protect the BBC’s independence it should not happen like that again in future.
Mr Hunt
If the right hon. and learned Lady is so against the licence fee settlement, will she confirm that it is the Labour party’s policy to reopen it, and that she is against the six-year freeze in the licence fee, which has been so welcomed by hard-working families up and down the country?
Ms Harman
The Secretary of State did not listen to what I said. I said that to protect the independence of the licence fee and of the BBC, the licence fee deliberation should be done with great care, with consultation with the public at its heart, and that it should be based on evidence and be open and transparent. Actually, it is a threat to the independence of the BBC to have the Secretary of State locked in a room with the director-general and to have an imposed settlement. I have highlighted the question of independence. I like to think well of people, so I ask the Secretary of State to say that he will support a strong, independent BBC. He needs to show understanding of the concern about how the licence fee was imposed and I hope he will do so.
With the frozen licence fee, new financial responsibilities and the increase in inflation—the forecast is that it will be up from 1.6% to 4.5%—the BBC is having to cut back by at least 16%. The BBC faces invidious choices and hard decisions, which cannot but affect services, jobs and all the sectors for which the BBC is the creative heart.
The cuts to local radio and regional TV have prompted particular concern. I echo hon. Members on both sides of the House who have said that BBC local radio gives a sense of place in what are sometimes fragmented communities—it is about local identity, because it reports local sports and events as well as local news. Local and regional TV offers a ladder of opportunity into the national media and the outcry against the cuts in local radio is heartfelt and genuine.
I should like to add my view of the quality of local radio and to mention Ed Doolan of BBC West Midlands—he is not from my region and I am not trying to get on his programme; he is retired—who spoke out for the whole of the west midlands and was as high a quality of broadcaster as can be found anywhere in the world.
Jesse Norman
I share the right hon. and learned Lady’s view about the quality of radio broadcasting in the west midlands—BBC Hereford and Worcester is a classic example. Does she agree that the Government’s plans to introduce more local television to invigorate local markets are extremely welcome?
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
My right hon. and learned Friend mentioned Ed Doolan, a big figure in the west midlands. When Mark Thompson opened The Mailbox in 2004, he said:
“The BBC’s centre of gravity is shifting. The regions of the UK and great cities such as Birmingham are central to our vision of a new BBC”.
So much for the vision of 2004; clearly it is no longer with us in 2011.
Ms Harman
Let us hope that Mr Thompson is reminded of that spirit and that he listens to the words of my hon. Friend and hon. Members on both sides of the House.
The BBC Trust should respond to the motion and review its proposals. I know that the BBC’s room for manoeuvre is tight, but like other hon. Members, I urge it to think again. It should also think again and put right, at no extra cost, the men-only shortlist for BBC sports personality of the year. Is the BBC really saying that there are no sportswomen, or that sportswomen do not have any personality? Is it any surprise that it has come about given that the panel of people who draw up the shortlist includes representatives from the magazines Nuts and Zoo but not, unsurprisingly, from Grazia and Marie Claire? This is clearly a matter that the BBC needs to think about again.
Tracey Crouch
I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Lady for her generosity in giving way. I support everything that she says about the BBC sports personality of the year. As a sportswoman and someone who coaches girls on a regular basis, I think that it is important that the BBC looks at its overall coverage of women sports. Rather than imposing positive discrimination so that women get on to the sports list, we should raise the profile of women’s sports so that they can be shortlisted on the basis of merit.
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
For as long as we keep talented top athletes such as Sheffield’s Jess Ennis off the shortlist, we are sending out the wrong message to women who want to compete and engage in sport.
Ms Harman
Absolutely. The BBC can and should sort this out. The process for the awards is not written on tablets of stone. There is time to sort this out. The BBC should listen to what is being said by hon. Members and by people all around the country and sort the matter out.
Finally, may I raise an issue that was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner)? Will the Secretary of State join me in condemning the really outrageous remarks of BBC presenter Jeremy Clarkson yesterday on live TV? He said that striking public sector employees should be “executed” in front of their families. The BBC has apologised for those remarks, but I hope that the Secretary of State agrees that Mr Clarkson should do the same.