Northern Ireland Veterans: Prosecution

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

If the next speaker keeps their contribution to four to five minutes, we might be able to get in two more Back Benchers before I call the Front Benchers for their contributions. I call Jim Allister.

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[Stuart Anderson]

It is not just about the final prosecution, but about what people have had to go through over all these years. Will the hon. Member say how many people have actually had the knock at the door, or the call, or had to give evidence? That is the issue that is really hurting people?

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

I call Al Pinkerton, who I assume is coming to the end of his contribution.

[Dr Pinkerton]

I was not, but I will endeavour to do so, Ms Lewell. I thank the hon. Member for his intervention, because he puts his finger on the point that it is not just about the numbers—I had been going to make that point myself—but the actual experience of those veterans.

In conclusion, I absolutely recognise the deep anxiety felt by many veterans. That concern—that fear—must not and should not be diminished or dismissed; but nor should it be unjustifiably stoked for political ends. If the Government are serious about restoring confidence, they must listen to victims, veterans and legal experts.

In the last few days before the Government announce what I think will be new legislation, may I put a couple of questions to the Secretary of State? First, what steps is he taking to ensure that any new legacy framework is compliant with the ECHR? Secondly, following this turbulent hiatus, how will he ensure that our armed forces veterans are protected from the most vexatious of legal actions, and that the investigation does not become the punishment?

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[Mr Francois]

Later.

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

Order. The shadow Minister has made it clear that he is not going to give way.

[Mr Francois]

Who would wish to serve a Government who may ask them to risk their life fighting for the state, only to be prosecuted in a courtroom half a century later? As General Lord Dannatt, a highly respected former Chief of the General Staff, put it so well:

“Why would any sensible young person think of putting on the Queen’s uniform if they thought they could be tapped on the shoulder years after an operation and questioned over false allegations?”

The Secretary of State will already be aware from his colleagues in the MOD, some of whom have a distinguished special forces background, that this process is having an adverse effect on morale in the special forces community, and in the Army more widely. It would be an act of sheer folly, and aid to our enemies, to continue with this act of military self-harm so that, put bluntly, even fewer people will join the Army and even more will leave. This is therefore not just morally but operationally mad, and a gift to our adversaries to boot.

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[Hilary Benn]

I did not say it was illegal; I said it was unlawful. I shall come directly to the right hon. Gentleman’s point. Look at the facts: of the 250,000 veterans who served so bravely in Operation Banner, as we heard, the number who have been prosecuted for offences has been very small. The Centre for Military Justice records that only one soldier has been convicted since the Good Friday agreement. The House might want to reflect on that, because for almost all of those 27 years, immunity was not on the statute book—the legacy Act was not passed. [Interruption.]

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

Order. Do not shout.

[Hilary Benn]

If the right hon. Gentleman will bear with me, we have also heard it said that terrorists are not being prosecuted and have somehow been given immunity. I want to challenge that, both because the only thing that gave terrorists immunity was the legacy Act, and because during the troubles an estimated 25,000 to 35,000 republicans and loyalists were tried and convicted, many of them serving sentences for murder and bombings. Indeed, there have been five convictions for terrorist-related offences connected to the troubles since 2012.

The so-called “on-the-run” letters had no legal force and did not give anyone any immunity. On interim custody orders, I made it clear in a written answer a couple of weeks ago that we will bring forward legislation to deal with that. By the way, I say to the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford that the remedial order does not bring back inquests—he was incorrect when he suggested that.

The fact that the legacy Act enabled terrorists to be given immunity was, as we have heard, one of the principal reasons why so many people in Northern Ireland were strongly opposed to it. We need to have in mind the people of Northern Ireland when we discuss these matters. Across all the political parties, among many victims and survivors—and I have met many of them myself—and Northern Ireland veteran groups, some of which I met last year, there is not just one view on this.

I know that there are some—and we have heard the argument in this debate—who say there should be absolute immunity for anyone who served in Operation Banner. I would simply say to them that, as a country, we either believe in the rule of law—[Interruption.] Well, that there should be no prosecutions. We either believe in the rule of law, or we do not. That was a point forcefully made by my hon. Friends the Members for North East Derbyshire (Louise Jones) and for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger).

As the former Conservative Defence Secretary Ben Wallace put it,

“the British Army is not above the law, and nor should it be. That is the difference between us and the terrorist.”—[Official Report, 18 November 2015; Vol. 602, c. 678.]

In a joint statement last Friday, the Veterans Commissioners for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales said that they do not call for immunity from the law but “for fairness under it”. I could not agree with them more.

Because immunity was struck down by the domestic courts even before the Government were elected—and we came into office committed to repealing the Act—any incoming Administration would have had to fix it. It is wrong for anyone to suggest anything different. [Interruption.] The answer is because we do not agree with it.

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

Order. Members will refrain from shouting out and having dialogue with the Secretary of State. Please intervene in the normal manner.

[Hilary Benn]

Legacy is hard. This is the unfinished business of the Good Friday agreement.

Windsor Framework: Parcel Delivery

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 30th April 2025 Westminster Hall

[Emma Lewell (in the Chair)]

I will call the Member in charge of the debate to move the motion and then I will call the Minister to respond. I remind other Members that they may only make a speech with prior permission from the Member in charge and the Minister. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the impact of the Windsor Framework on parcel deliveries across the Irish Sea.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Lewell. Tomorrow, 1 May, the noose of the Irish sea border will tighten even further in respect of business in Northern Ireland. We already have the red lane Irish sea border, subject to the full complement of EU requirements, through which all raw materials for our businesses have to pass. We also have what was called the green lane, which has been renamed but otherwise little about it has changed, for the passage of other goods; we have a business-to-consumer border for parcels; and now—in some ways the most threatening because of the scale of the businesses that will be affected—we have the business-to-business parcel border. Of course, that is a border partitioning the supposed United Kingdom and its supposed internal market.

The essence of an internal market is that goods move unfettered and unchecked between and within all parts of it. We now have something else, courtesy of the absurd protocol—or, as we now call it, the Windsor framework. In view of the fact that that decreed that we in Northern Ireland are subject to the EU’s customs code, which in turn decrees that Great Britain is a third or foreign country, we now have the absurdity of various dimensions of border for the passage of goods from GB to Northern Ireland.

For 200 years, the Northern Ireland economy has been intensely integrated with the GB economy, particularly in manufacturing. It was always the northern part of Ireland that had the big manufacturing sectors. Therefore, the integration, in particular with regard to the supply of raw materials, has been pivotal and GB has been the primary source of all that.

Now, parcels will be subject to rigorous EU requirements, including the requirement for a commodity code—

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Member is right. It is a crisis, and I am sorry to have to report to the House that it is not the only crisis that we have inherited. There is crisis and failure absolutely everywhere, after 14 years of failure, that this Government of service will begin the hard yards of fixing, including in social care. We will work across the House, and we do endeavour to create a national care service. That will not be easy, but we can begin the first steps and we will share that across the House where we can.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

Q5. For decades, my constituent Jack Taylor has been continuously ignored by previous Governments. He and other nuclear veterans have been denied access to their medical records and compensation. The Prime Minister has rightly said that these national heroes deserve full accountability and justice. Will he therefore consider supporting a special tribunal with statutory powers on this 70-year-long scandal?

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his excellent suggestion. He is a great champion of small business. Every measure that the Government produce is judged by the effect or impact it will have on businesses large and small. As he knows, we are also providing for these particularly difficult circumstances about £100 billion in business support—the bounce back loans and many other forms of support—but the best thing for businesses large and small is for us to shop local, as I said earlier, and to allow the economy cautiously and prudently to reopen.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

I want to congratulate the Prime Minister, as I think next week marks his first year in post. However, in that time: over 71,000 covid deaths, the highest rate in Europe; over £2 trillion in debt, with the worst-performing economy in the G7; failing Brexit negotiations; and at least £1.5 billion of taxpayers’ money spent on contracts for Tory friends and donors. At the same time, he has whipped his MPs to vote against meals for hungry children. Which one of these achievements is he most proud of?

[The Prime Minister]

I would take the hon. Lady’s point more seriously if she and her party could be bothered to vote for measures—[Interruption.]

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I did.

[The Prime Minister]

I am sorry—she defied the Labour Whip. Forgive me, Mr Speaker. She defied the injunction to dither from the ditherer-in-chief. She did not obey his instruction to dither. I would take her more seriously if her party leader would vote for measures that would open up the economy while protecting lives across the UK.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 24th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

What steps the Government are taking to support the recovery of the Northern Ireland economy from the effects of the covid-19 outbreak.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

What steps the Government are taking to support the recovery of the Northern Ireland economy from the effects of the covid-19 outbreak.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

What steps the Government are taking to support the recovery of the Northern Ireland economy from the effects of the covid-19 outbreak.

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[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady is right to recognise that there has been a severe impact, and we are determined to work hand in hand with the Executive on the response to that. I was pleased to see them publishing their own plan, and their focus on skills and infrastructure are shared objectives with the UK Government. This certainly needs to be a joint endeavour, to ensure that we support a strong economy and the conditions for safety and security for the people of Northern Ireland.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Northern Ireland is reported to be heading for a prolonged economic downturn. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) said, its aerospace industry is in crisis, with significant job losses at Bombardier and Thompson Aero. The Secretary of State can stop further decline by putting pressure on the Treasury to accelerate defence procurement programmes. Why has he not done that?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Lady is right that the covid-19 outbreak has had a severe impact on the aviation and aerospace sectors around the world. The UK Government have already provided significant support to the sector, including through the business interruption loan scheme, the job retention scheme and, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State mentioned, £2.1 billion through the covid corporate financing facility, with additional flexibility from UK Export Finance. Of course we will have contact with Ministers at the Ministry of Defence, and we are always happy to work with the sector to promote job opportunities in Northern Ireland.

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[The Prime Minister]

Absolutely. I can certainly say to my hon. Friend and to the people of Blyth Valley that we are going to do absolutely everything we can in the course of our infrastructure revolution to ensure that UK steel manufacturers are at the front of the queue for the great projects that we are going to construct. We have already identified about £3.8 billion worth of opportunities.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

My constituent Elizabeth Smurthwaite contracted coronavirus in her care home and was refused admission to hospital. This Government’s policy of discharging patients with coronavirus into homes has led to over 16,000 deaths. Sadly, Elizabeth has since passed away. Last week, the Health Secretary said that he accepted responsibility for these deaths in our care homes. Does the Prime Minister?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course this Government accept responsibility, and I accept responsibility, for everything that has happened throughout this crisis, but I will say that what happened with the discharge of patients into care homes was all done according to clinical decisions, as the NHS has confirmed, and actually there was a 40% reduction between January and March in the number of people going from the NHS into care homes. Thankfully, we are now seeing a massive reduction, thanks to the efforts of care workers and our care home action programme, to get the numbers of deaths in care homes down to the levels we would expect to find this year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Most people in this country want to see the Government doing what we are doing, which is getting on with the job of delivering the best deal for Britain from Brexit. There was a certain amount of noise from the Opposition when I said earlier that the Leader of the Opposition let workers down by failing to protect their rights on Monday, but that is exactly one of the issues in the Bill. It is about bringing workers’ rights that are contained in EU legislation into the UK, and he voted against it.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

Q9. As the Prime Minister was visiting survivors of the Manchester terror attack, families who were heartbroken to have lost their children were also in the vicinity, but the Prime Minister did not visit them. Chloe Rutherford and Liam Curry from South Shields tragically lost their lives, and their parents feel ignored by the Prime Minister. I wrote to her seven weeks ago with their concerns, but she has failed to respond. When will she properly acknowledge their loss?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady raises an important issue. I am not aware of her letter, so I will of course look today to see why she has not received a response. I can only apologise to her for the fact that she has not yet received a response.

I acknowledged at the time, and I continue to acknowledge, that the attack in Manchester damaged lives in many ways. There are those who were injured and are living with the consequences of their injuries, those who lost loved ones—relatives or friends—and are affected by that, and those whose lives were sadly cut short at all too young an age. We must all ensure that we are providing support for the victims and that our authorities—police authorities and agencies—have the power to prevent attacks in the future. I will look into the issue of the letter because, as I said, the hon. Lady should have had a response already. I am sorry that seven weeks have gone by without her receiving one.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

The Prime Minister was asked—

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 16 July.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Given the Prime Minister’s commitment to equality, will he explain why 75% of his Cabinet are still men?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady is being a little bit churlish. The Government before mine had four women Cabinet Ministers and three additional women attending Cabinet. We now have five full members of Cabinet and an additional three attending, so more women are attending. I am of course leading a coalition Government, and when it comes to Conservatives sitting around the Cabinet table, I am proud to say that a third of them are now women.

Oral Answers to Questions

Emma Lewell Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Absolutely I will. My hon. Friend makes a good point; we are seeing a rebalancing of our economy. Just this week we have seen a growth in manufacturing and all the elements of GDP, such as construction and manufacturing, growing. We want to see a recovery that is broadly based across the different sectors and in every part of the country. When it comes to today’s figures, we can see that pay levels in industries such as manufacturing and services, rather than financial services, are on the rise.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

Q8. Last week, the Minister without Portfolio, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), said that people in the UK had“not yet felt any sense of recovery.”The Office for National Statistics has confirmed today that full-time workers in the north-east are £36 a week worse off than they were last year. Does the Prime Minister agree with his Cabinet colleague?

[The Prime Minister]

The point I make to the hon. Lady is that, as I have just said, there are 47,000 more people in work in the north-east than there were a year ago. The best route out of poverty is work, and what that needs to be followed by are the tax reductions this Government are bringing in to make sure that people are in work and better off in work—that is going to make a difference.