Finance Bill (First sitting)

Debbie Abrahams Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 16th January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mr Paisley; I am delighted to serve on the Committee.

I just wanted to raise an issue that has come to my attention in relation to the Liverpool Philharmonic Hall. The Liverpool Philharmonic Hall is the home of our orchestra in Liverpool. It has a unique model whereby the orchestra owns the hall, and the hall is also rented out for external events. That is unique compared with any other set-up in the country. I understand that, in clause 5, the Government are proposing changes to the detail of how creative tax reliefs are claimed. They are proposing that external events with connected companies —as might happen in the case of the Liverpool Philharmonic—will not be eligible for those tax reliefs. That is the model that the Liverpool Philharmonic has relied on and that has made it such a great success. I wish to use this opportunity to ask the Minister to look again and to seek assurances that the minor changes proposed in clause 5 will not affect the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra negatively.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I have a couple of quick questions for the Minister. First, on clause 3 and the assessment that the Government have undertaken of its economic impact on the sector, particularly in relation to the current TV ads slump, how much will it offset that and what timescales are the Government considering? On clause 4 and theatre production companies, is there a size limit for the companies that the measures will relate to?

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[Debbie Abrahams]

May I absolutely confirm that there will be no retrospective tax collection deductions of carer’s allowance? That is so important, given the issues around deductions.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady is right to highlight that—it is the very question that I asked. Nobody will be financially impacted by the change, which applies to a drafting error that has not been executed. It is a clarification purely and specifically on the legislation, as opposed to having any real-world impact on the finances. It is very important to get that point across, because we do not want anybody to be worried about this change. There is no change in circumstances or amounts. Clause 18 provides clarity on the correct statutory reference under which the Scottish Government’s carer’s allowance supplement payments are made.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 18 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 19

Growth market exemption: qualifying UK multilateral trading facilities etc

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

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[Debbie Abrahams]

Can I just ask how the clause compares with the policy of our international colleagues —New Zealand, for example?

[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful to the Opposition for their position on the clause. It is a mutual endeavour to ensure that we reduce smoking rates. We should take pride in this country that, over the last couple of decades, both parties, when in government, have overseen a reduction in smoking prevalence to some 13%.

On the specific question about international comparisons, I do not have the information available, but I am very happy to write to the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 22 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 23

Rates of vehicle excise duty

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

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[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I remember very well the exchange at the last fiscal event, and I note that since then, the leader of the Labour party has developed a new passion for flying in private jets courtesy of foreign Governments.

Let me try to address the hon. Gentleman’s concerns and explain what is going on here. The industry is notified of air passenger duty 12 months in advance. It is uprated by a forecast of RPI and those rates are then rounded to the nearest pound. He asked a very reasonable question about how that shakes out in terms of the actual rates. It largely depends on how they are rounded to the nearest pound; the actual rate is determined by whether the figure is rounded down or up. He pointed out particular types of aircraft and particular bands. In the instances that he described, the rates have been rounded down; others have been rounded up, which is why other rates have gone up. He is right that helicopters are not part of the APD regime, but they do incur fuel duty, and buying a helicopter incurs VAT.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Just to clarify, if notification is given 12 months in advance, does that mean that there will be a more progressive approach to taxation for private jets in this Budget?

[Gareth Davies]

The Bill implements the rate changes that were announced at the spring Budget last year, based on a forecast RPI, as I have described, but the principle that the hon. Lady talks about is absolutely right. We have in this country an established principle that the further someone flies, the more they pay. Long-haul flights are subject to a greater rate than short-haul flights, as are private jet flights, for which the rate is increased.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Just on private jets—

[Gareth Davies]

The rate on private jets is significantly more than any commercial flight passenger will pay.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 26

Vehicle excise duty exemption for foreign vehicles

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.