Finance Bill (First sitting)

Dan Carden Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 16th January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[James Murray]

I look forward not only to moving on from the current drama in our wider politics, but also to the Minister’s response on the specific point about pantomime productions and claims for tax reliefs.

Finally, having led for the Opposition on five Finance Bills, I know all too well that there can be complexity and indeed unintended consequences when new changes are made to tax relief regimes. Will the Minister therefore again explain what he and HMRC are doing to make sure the appropriate guidance is issued, and support offered, alongside the changes to the rules, to support claimants in navigating them?

On clause 5 on orchestras, the Government have sought to clarify rules around cultural reliefs, again following a two-year extension to the higher rate for orchestra tax relief that we mentioned earlier, which was issued in October 2021 to help the sector recover from the pandemic. Clause 5 seeks to clarify the exclusion of capital expenditure; clarify the exclusion of costs incidental to production; and amend the time limit for concert series elections to either the date of the first concert in the series or the date of the claim.

Although seeking to provide clarity in the operation of creative reliefs is welcome, I am concerned that there is still a lack of clarity on how the rules should be interpreted, and I again ask the Minister to use this opportunity to put some clarification on record. The lack of clarity was brought to my attention by my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who is a great champion for the UK’s world-class orchestras. On Second Reading, she made the point that:

“International touring is vital to the survival of many orchestras and makes up a fifth of earned income”

and that

“it boosts cultural exports and enhances the UK’s place on the world stage.”—[Official Report, 13 December 2023; Vol. 742, c. 931.]

She also referred to changes in eligibility for orchestra tax relief that required 10% of expenditure to be on goods or services that are used or consumed in the UK.

I understand the reasoning behind that, as the Minister set it out, but I also understand from my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South that the Association of British Orchestras believes that that means there is a lack of clarity about what orchestras will be able to claim. I am sure the Minister will agree that clarity is crucial for a successful tax system and I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could provide clarity today about how changing eligibility criteria will affect the claims that touring orchestras make.

In clause 6, the Government have again sought to clarify rules, following the higher rate that was granted for museums and galleries exhibition tax relief in October 2021. Galleries and museums are a critical part of our creative sector and of the enjoyment and fulfilment of so many people across the country. The clause seeks to provide clarity on two areas in relation to the relief: namely, the exclusion of costs incidental to production and the requirement for there to be physical admission to exhibitions for the relief to apply. The Opposition will not oppose either of those changes, but I ask the Minister what he is doing to work with key industry bodies, including the Museums Association, to ensure that the appropriate guidance is in place for museums and galleries, large and small, to be able to navigate these changes without confusion.

Clause 7 introduces new administrative measures for companies claiming creative tax reliefs. Claimants will now be required to complete and submit a new online information form. This will include the various new expenditure credits that we discussed in the previous clauses. We understand that these changes seek to streamline the process of making a claim, reduce the administrative burden on HMRC and make it easier to tackle abuse.

Of course, the Opposition support the principle of all those aims. However, as the clause involves the mandatory use of a new online information form from 1 April 2024, I ask the Minister to confirm whether he is confident that the digital systems at HMRC are ready for that to operate from that date. I believe that that is a pertinent question, given the shocking record of the Government in overseeing the implementation of the Making Tax Digital strategy since it was adopted almost a decade ago. Last summer, HMRC admitted that its ageing legacy IT systems meant that HMRC had

“underestimated the scale and complexity”

of delivering Making Tax Digital.

According to the National Audit Office, Ministers set unrealistic ambitions and timescales for implementing MTD. From the very start, HMRC rated MTD as a high-risk programme, and dates were rushed without realistic appraisal. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury is the fifth incumbent of the role since September 2021, and there is no doubt that the churn of Ministers has contributed to the lack of direction in policymaking for digital strategy on tax affairs. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could outline what steps he has taken to give him confidence in HMRC’s ability to make sure the new online forms for the creative reliefs are operational on time and on budget. That is important for the effective administration of creative reliefs. More widely, it is important that HMRC is equipped with the tools it needs to provide a high-quality online service that individual taxpayers and businesses should expect the Government to deliver.

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mr Paisley; I am delighted to serve on the Committee.

I just wanted to raise an issue that has come to my attention in relation to the Liverpool Philharmonic Hall. The Liverpool Philharmonic Hall is the home of our orchestra in Liverpool. It has a unique model whereby the orchestra owns the hall, and the hall is also rented out for external events. That is unique compared with any other set-up in the country. I understand that, in clause 5, the Government are proposing changes to the detail of how creative tax reliefs are claimed. They are proposing that external events with connected companies —as might happen in the case of the Liverpool Philharmonic—will not be eligible for those tax reliefs. That is the model that the Liverpool Philharmonic has relied on and that has made it such a great success. I wish to use this opportunity to ask the Minister to look again and to seek assurances that the minor changes proposed in clause 5 will not affect the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra negatively.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I have a couple of quick questions for the Minister. First, on clause 3 and the assessment that the Government have undertaken of its economic impact on the sector, particularly in relation to the current TV ads slump, how much will it offset that and what timescales are the Government considering? On clause 4 and theatre production companies, is there a size limit for the companies that the measures will relate to?

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry]

The cost of living crisis is gripping families across the nations of the United Kingdom. They are struggling with rent, with mortgages, with food costs and with energy bills. When we come to clause 14, though the abolition of the lifetime allowance is necessary for certain professionals, including doctors, it benefits about as many bankers as healthcare workers. There were better ways for the Government to tackle this problem. What other options were looked at to avoid the undue rewarding of those who it was perhaps less necessary to include than healthcare workers?

[Dan Carden]

The Minister said that 15,000 will stay in the workforce as a result of these changes. However, the changes have been criticised for actually complicating the pension system. Will he be reviewing the numbers that stay in professions such as healthcare? If 15,000 stay in the workforce, how many others are simply benefiting in other sectors such as banking?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank hon. Members for their comments. We seem to have had a bit of a U-turn from some Opposition Members and some political parties. There was considerable support for these measures across multiple sectors. These measures will benefit swathes of the public sector. I have already given quotes and there are plenty more from swathes of the medical and health service industry. The Royal College of Surgeons, for example, found that 68% of consultant surgeons were considering early retirement because of the old pensions rules. I do not know what more evidence hon. Members need to be convinced that this is a proper and appropriate move.

[Dan Carden]

None of us disputes that this is a positive move for the public sector and for certain sectors of the economy, but perhaps the Minister could answer the question about those who perhaps are not so worthy.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Member is being rather selective. Swathes of the public sector will benefit: headteachers, police chiefs, clinicians, senior armed forces personnel, air traffic controllers, prison governors, senior government scientists, government-employed vets and so on. It is a point of principle that the tax system does not generally distinguish between occupations. To the point of the hon. Gentleman and others about timeliness, this is an issue that we needed to deal with immediately—not in three or five years’ time. There was an appropriate measure, and we took it.

It goes without saying that some people have benefited from similar schemes in the past. The Leader of the Opposition had a unique deal from his time as Director of Public Prosecutions, which allowed him to avoid tax on his savings. It is only appropriate that, in order to make sure that we retain people in the workforce and encourage people to come back to the workforce, we make these changes and make them in a timely manner. That is the broader point of the policy area, as opposed to the specifics of these changes. They have been subject to considerable consultation.

The hon. Member for Ealing North mentioned that there are about 100 pages of legislation. That is true, but let us be very clear: this is a clear and transparent simplification that has been welcomed by large swathes of the public sector. The vast majority of the 100 pages of legislation he talked about remove references and concepts associated with the lifetime allowance. When we make changes, we need to remove references, and that was the bulk of the work.

As I said, this has been the result of extensive consultation. The Government have been consistently clear since the spring Budget of 2023 that the abolition of the lifetime allowance will be effective from April 2024. We have set out the timelines very clearly. We continued to work closely with industry, and HMRC will support the implementation of these changes. As I said, we have listened to stakeholder feedback and confirmed that we would not proceed with the previously proposed changes, for example to pension commencement lump sums and small lump sums. Once the changes have been made, they represent a significant saving for pensions.

Unlike the lifetime allowance excess lump sum, which is charged at 55%, the pension commencement excess lump sum is charged at the member’s marginal rate. So the pension commencement excess lump sum is only paid in connection with the commencement of a pension. The pension commencement excess lump sum allows individuals entitled to receive more of their pension on commencement as a lump sum than is provided for by the standard pension commencement lump sum. As I said, overall, these changes are welcomed and are a simplification. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 14 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 9 agreed to.

Clause 15

MPs’ pension scheme etc: rectification of discrimination

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.