Oral Answers to Questions

Damian Green Excerpts

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

16. What the change has been in the number of front-line police officers since May 2010.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

Between March 2010 and March 2012 the total number of front-line officers fell by 6,778. West Midlands police saw the greatest reduction in the number of front-line officers. Over the past year crime there has fallen by 10%, much more than the national average, proving that what matters is not the number of officers, but how they are deployed and how effective they are at fighting crime.

[Catherine McKinnell]

At a recent coffee morning I held, constituents were overwhelming in their praise for and gratitude to the police for the work they do in our communities, yet with falling police numbers their job will get harder, not easier, and my constituents are worried about the knock-on effects. What does the Minister believe will be the impact, particularly on police morale, of a Cabinet member verbally abusing a police officer at a time of reckless front-line cuts up and down the country?

[Damian Green]

May I start by endorsing the gratitude the hon. Lady’s constituents showed to Northumbria police? I am sure that she will be pleased to hear that crime in the Northumbria police area is down by 8% from 2011 to 2012. With regard to her other remarks, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) has apologised to the officer concerned and the officer has accepted the apology, and I think that for most people that would be the end of it.

[Fabian Hamilton]

Following that rather complacent and out-of-touch response, will the Minister take responsibility for the consequential increase in crime and disorder caused by the cut of more than 450 officers in west Yorkshire that will affect my constituency?

[Damian Green]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman thinks that I am out of touch, because crime in west Yorkshire is down by 3%. I am afraid that he seems to be out of touch with crime levels in his own constituency.

[Jack Dromey]

The police service for Birmingham and the west midlands is among the finest in England, but 814 of its front-line police officers are being cut. Does the Home Secretary understand the dismay being expressed by the people of Birmingham over the damage being done to their police service, and does she also understand that they cannot begin to understand why 814 officers are going in Birmingham and the west midlands but 257 are going in Surrey?

[Damian Green]

The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well the financial state his Government left this country in, which is why there need to be cuts. I completely agree with his tribute to West Midlands police, because, as I have said, in these difficult times they have reduced crime by 10% in the west midlands, a significant improvement, making the streets of Birmingham and the rest of the west midlands safer than they were.

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Surely these are decisions for chief constables. The chief constable of Thames Valley police is managing in that area without any perceptible cut in front-line police numbers and, although one can never be complacent, I must say that crime levels in my constituency are probably as low as they have ever been in the nearly 30 years I have been a Member of this House.

[Damian Green]

I am glad to hear that. My hon. Friend is correct that there has been no fall in the number of officers in Thames Valley police, and that is at a time when recorded crime is down by 13%, which is a huge tribute to all involved. What has happened is that chief constables all over the country have worked effectively to ensure that our streets are safer. That is the basic job of the police and they are doing it very well.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Effective press and media relations are an essential tool to support front-line policing, but it is not clear to me whether or not the authorised police officers who are responsible for these matters are described as front-line. It is extremely important that, for police accountability and to prevent the abuse of power in relation to those police officers who are not authorised to speak to the media, we have full transparency about the police’s links to the media and how the media are briefed.

[Damian Green]

Transparency is an important issue for the police, as it is for other institutions such as this House. One of the improvements following the election of police and crime commissioners will be the existence of individuals with the job of holding individual forces to account. That, in itself, will be a major step forward in transparency for the police service across England and Wales.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

Will the Minister join me in congratulating Cambridgeshire chief constable Simon Parr, both for reducing crime by about a fifth in two years and for announcing the recruitment of 100 new police officers? Will he suggest that other chief constables look at that model?

[Damian Green]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. It shows that good chief constables can decide how to deploy their resources effectively. The vast majority of them around the country are seeing crime fall in their areas, and that is what the public want.

[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

9. What recent estimate she has made of the cost to the public purse of the elections for police and crime commissioners in November 2012.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

As the Government set out to the House during the passage of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, and on a number of occasions since then, the elections will cost up to £75 million. That money will not come from funds that would otherwise have gone to police forces.

[Mr Spellar]

We already knew that the figure was £75 million; what the Minister did not say was how much extra, over and above that, the Government were going to spend on adverts to try desperately to get people out to vote in these unwanted elections in the middle of November. Why are the Government not holding the elections at a sensible time and spending the money on front-line police officers?

[Damian Green]

The elections may be unwanted by the right hon. Gentleman, although I suspect that they will be less unwanted by some of his Labour colleagues; at the last count, seven former Labour Ministers were standing in the PCC elections.

I am genuinely surprised that the right hon. Gentleman is so afraid of democracy. On the whole, during its history the Labour party has welcomed advances in democracy. It is a sad comment on the state of the modern Labour party that it should be frightened of democracy.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

The PCC elections are a great opportunity to involve the public in policing priorities for the first time. Does my right hon. Friend agree that Members on both sides should be getting behind the elections and raising awareness of them among their electors? If the Minister is near Birmingham on Saturday 27 October, I cordially invite him to join an action day that we are holding in the centre of Stourbridge, where he will be able to meet the candidate, Matt Bennett.

[Damian Green]

I am extremely grateful for that kind invitation. I will indeed be travelling around the country to take part in the campaign in various areas. My hon. Friend is absolutely right—this is a chance for people to have a say in the policing of their local areas. The elections are the biggest advance in the democratic control of our police in a generation.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister to his new post; I am sure that he will enjoy it.

One month away from what are flagship elections for the Government, let us reflect on where we are. More than 7 million people who do not have access to the internet will find it difficult to get information from the Government because of cost savings. Election organisation has been shambolic; parliamentary orders have been laid late, including orders on the Welsh language, driving down turnout and increasing costs. The Electoral Reform Society predicts the lowest turnout ever and the former Minister, the right hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert), having stirred up apathy, has now jumped ship. What turnout does the Minister expect on 15 November and will he finally publish the cost to the taxpayer of this shambles?

[Damian Green]

I have answered the question about the cost to the taxpayer once, and the shadow Minister’s right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) made the point that we had answered it several times before.

On the first point about how difficult it is for those who do not have the internet to have access, I should say that one phone call will get them access. Anyone who phones the helpline can have all the information that is available on the internet—for the first time, information from every candidate—sent to them in hard copy. It is extremely easy for everyone to get hold of information about the election, and I hope that the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) will campaign alongside his hon. Friends, many of whom seem to take the elections a lot more seriously than he does.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

If the turnout is as low as 15%, as some people predict, a winning candidate could well end up with less than 10% of the vote on the electoral roll. What mandate would such a commissioner have?

[Damian Green]

I am not going to predict the turnout, but I can tell my hon. Friend that the existing police authorities that the PCCs will replace have no democratic mandate at all, because not a single vote has ever been cast for a member of a police authority. The new arrangements are a significant step forward.

[Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)]

10. Whether she has received legal advice on whether the proposals contained in the draft Communications Data Bill are compatible with the UK’s human rights obligations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)]

11. What recent assessment she has made of the use by police of orders under section 61 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 to disperse illegal encampments.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

A range of powers are available to the police to deal with illegal encampments, including the power under section 61 of the 1994 Act to remove people who are trespassing with intent to take up residence. The Government keep these powers under review.

[Tim Loughton]

During the summer, a number of public places in my constituency were, yet again, the destination of choice for many illegal Traveller encampments, leaving my constituents to pick up a hefty bill for damage, dumping and abuse, with no prosecutions made as a result. Yet Sussex police were very reluctant to invoke any section 61 orders, which they have had the power to do since 1994. Will the Minister look into the police’s reluctance and investigate whether the use of the word “discretionary” in the guidance is acting as a bar to their using these orders, which can result in instant dispersal, to the great relief of my constituents and those of many other hon. Members?

[Damian Green]

I have every sympathy with my hon. Friend and his constituents. Many Members on both sides of the House will have experienced similar problems. I understand that Sussex police responded in September to an encampment in Lancing by issuing a direction under section 61 that required the occupants to leave within 24 hours, which they subsequently did. I am also aware that my hon. Friend is engaged in continuous discussions with Sussex police about this matter. If there is an aspect that has anything to do with changes in the law, I will of course look into it, but I also urge him to talk to the PCC candidates in his part of the world, because within a month they will be responsible for writing the policing plan for his area.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

Melksham Without parish councillors have told me about the trouble that they have had with illegal encampments on their land. They are frustrated that the encampments arrive at the very end of the week, often before a bank holiday weekend. Can anything be done to enable stop notices to be applied on Friday evenings or even at the weekend itself?

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend’s question moves us into the planning arena and he will have heard last week’s announcement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government. As I have said, the police have a range of powers that could be used. It seems clear that in some parts of the country this will be a significant matter for police and crime commissioners. If the issue is causing that much public distress, it may well need to be higher up the agenda of police forces in certain areas. That is why we are having elections to make sure that there is more local control over police planning.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

12. What steps she is taking to empower police officers to tackle crime.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

T3. To continue with the theme of police and crime commissioners and the elections, does the Home Secretary agree that the introduction of democracy and transparency will help to achieve the right balance between rural and urban policing, as exemplified by our excellent candidate in Gloucestershire, Victoria Atkins?

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

My hon. Friend is precisely right. In areas such as Gloucestershire, striking the right balance between urban and rural pressures on the police will be an important task for the police and crime commissioner. One significant difference is that only 7% of the public are aware that they can go to a police authority if they are unhappy with their policing. By the end of this campaign, I am sure that a far higher proportion of people will be aware of their police and crime commissioner candidates.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

T6. Today, after the police cuts, there are only 22 custody cells to serve the entire borough of Ealing. Although we are, by and large, a law-abiding bunch, we feel we are approaching the stage where there is no room at the nick. Will the Minister provide reassurance for my constituents, and those of fellow Ealing MPs, about what we can do to increase and perhaps bring back the number of custody cells in Ealing?

[Damian Green]

I can happily reassure the hon. Gentleman that although total funding for the Metropolitan police is down by 2%, recorded crime is also down by 1% in the Metropolitan police area, suggesting that there is less pressure on police cells than there would previously have been.

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

T5. Please will the Minister provide an update on progress on establishing the college of policing, with particular reference to the future of the National Police Improvement Agency site in the Pannal Ash area of my Harrogate and Knaresborough constituency?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to report that the college of policing will be up and running by December this year. The site at Pannal Ash remains open, although the majority of residential training has stopped, with staff now focusing on the development of national standards for recruitment, promotion and training. The freehold of the site transfers to the Home Office on 1 December when the college is established, and the site will then be leased to the college for its activities.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

T7. While working for P&O ferries, my constituent, Mark Hanson, met his partner, a foreign national with whom he is having a child. She has been refused entry clearance because Mark has been deemed unable to meet the sponsor requirements, although his parents have offered him employment and accommodation for the couple and their child. Does the Home Secretary recognise that that case highlights how the inflexibility of her new rules unfairly prevents many British citizens from bringing their partners to the UK? Will she meet me and Mark’s parents to consider their case for their family to be united?

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

T8. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to increase public awareness and participation in the forthcoming police and crime commissioner elections, and to ensure that the public know about the many excellent candidates who are standing across the country, such as Sir Clive Loader in my county of Leicestershire?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to agree with my hon. Friend. I met Sir Clive for the first time last week. He is by any standards an extremely impressive human being, and will make a formidable PCC if he wins.

[Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab)]

Crime in Hampshire has fallen for six years in a row under the leadership of Jacqui Rayment, the Labour candidate for police and crime commissioner. Would the Minister care to say why the Conservative candidate for Hampshire still refuses to apologise for his long support for Asil Nadir, the convicted fraudster, and why the Conservative party has refused to give back the large donation it received from Asil Nadir? Is that not a case of them all being in it together?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to report to the right hon. Gentleman that all Conservative candidates are being encouraged to sign a clean campaigning pledge to avoid the kind of cheap slurs in which he has just indulged. I hope the Labour candidate in Hampshire signs the pledge, and that the right hon. Gentleman is acting in a freelance way, and not being subcontracted to run a dirty campaign.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

T9. More than 50% of the inmates of Swaleside prison in my constituency are foreign nationals. What assurances can my hon. Friend give that the Government will ensure that all those prisoners will be repatriated to their home countries on their release?