Oral Answers to Questions

Claire Perry Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

10. What steps he is taking to support new renewable energy technologies.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

All of us in this House should celebrate the UK’s global leadership in decarbonising our economy: we have had the fastest rate of decarbonisation in the G20 since 1990, and part of that leadership has been through very substantial investment in renewable technology, including subsidies totalling £52 billion since 2010 and auction design and research and development investment. It is paying off: in the third quarter of last year we generated over a third of our energy from renewables, and our support is continuing with over half a billion pounds committed to the contracts for difference process and almost £200 million for cost-reducing innovations.

[Danielle Rowley]

Scottish businesses such as the innovative Artemis in my constituency have developed world-leading tidal and wave energy technologies, but requiring these early-stage businesses to compete with the more mature offshore wind industry for CfD subsidies means there is often no viable route to market for emergent technologies. Will the Minister consider having a three-pot auction for new technologies, including wave and tidal, so there is no direct competition with more established technologies?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. We want to continue to invest in technologies that have the potential both to decarbonise and drive global exports, and that is certainly an area that could contribute, although not at any price: we will not rerun the debate over Swansea, which would have been the most expensive power station the country had ever built and created just 30 jobs. There are potentially better, more valuable projects and I am always happy to look at innovative proposals coming forward to see how we might support this technology.

[Dr Huq]

As well as the obvious, 31 March sees the end of the export tariff on electricity exported into the grid by solar photovoltaic systems. After that, big firms will end up receiving free electricity from all new solar PV installations, which are mainly small businesses and individual households, so they will effectively be subsidising the giants. Will the Government consider a net metering scheme, whereby the difference between electricity consumed and exported into the grid only is paid for, to rectify this burning injustice?

[Claire Perry]

I admire the hon. Lady’s passion. I feel I am rather front-running my answer to Question 9, which I know the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) is teed up to ask, but I will publish today the consultation on the Government’s proposals for a smart export guarantee to bring forward this valuable source of energy at a price so that people are not providing it to the grid for free, and to support its development in what we want to call our smart systems plan going forward.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

While supporting new energy technologies is of course important, so too is supporting technologies that make our energy production more efficient, and many of these technologies are low carbon so they help us meet our climate change targets and cut consumers’ household bills. Can the Minister update us on progress made in this area and on the call for evidence I have asked for on this subject?

[Claire Perry]

My hon. Friend has been a doughty campaigner on this issue and will know that we have contributed almost £20 million to the industrial strategy heat recovery fund, and the low-carbon heating technology innovation fund is also receiving funds of up to £10 million. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend’s principle. I am not convinced that a further consultation is required, but I am always happy to discuss it with her.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Is it fair to continue to subsidise solar panels by charging higher prices to other customers who could not possibly afford that investment?

[Claire Perry]

No, and that is why the intention to close the feed-in tariff scheme was signalled many years ago: it has cost to date over £5 billion and we have a legacy cost of over £1.5 billion to fund that scheme going forward at a time when the price of solar is tumbling. We know that many companies are bringing forward large-scale solar installations without needing subsidy.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

22. The Minister will be aware that the whole point of supporting new renewable energy technologies is to allow them to enter the marketplace and, hopefully, get to the point where they will become subsidy-free. Onshore wind is almost at that point, and it is also the cheapest form of electricity generation at the moment. What discussions has the Minister had with the Secretary of State for Scotland about developing onshore wind in Scotland?

[Claire Perry]

I have regular discussions with my right hon. Friend the Scottish Secretary regarding all the support we are providing for the BEIS Scottish energy sector. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will join me in celebrating the fact that we have opened up the CfD mechanism to the offshore wind provision that is coming for remote island projects—[Interruption.] He used to think that that was a very good thing. We should also never forget that it is UK bill payers collectively who have invested in the success of UK renewable energy. We will continue to review the potential for onshore wind, but the hon. Gentleman will know that the Scottish Secretary and I were both elected on a manifesto that said that further subsidy for large-scale onshore wind was not required or necessary.

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

I very much support renewable energy, but many of my constituents in the Scottish borders feel that we now have our fair share of onshore wind, so can the Minister assure me that nothing in Government policy will promote onshore wind farm developments over other forms of renewable energy sources?

[Claire Perry]

That is exactly the point about technology neutrality. I refer my hon. Friend to the Scottish Government’s own onshore wind policy statement, which suggests that the number of onshore wind applications is expected to increase by more than 70% on the basis of current planning applications. The current system is clearly working to bring forward onshore wind in the windiest parts of the United Kingdom.

[Sir Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD)]

Given how vital offshore wind is to Britain’s future electricity supply, and how it is increasingly providing good value for money, how can the Minister justify allocating just £60 million to next spring’s CfD auction?

[Claire Perry]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for recognising the incredible contribution that offshore wind can make, and I hope he will join me in wishing great success to our negotiating teams in bringing forward the vital sector deal. The point is, given that the price has tumbled since he was one of the people who designed the excellent auction structure, that we should be able to bring forward the amount of capacity we have said we need—1 GW to 2 GW—with that amount of subsidy. The system is working to get us to subsidy-free provision of this extremely important offshore wind energy.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that the recent EU Court judgment, which effectively freezes the capacity market in the UK, turned substantially on the lack of level playing field access to capacity market support for new low-carbon energy technologies such as demand-side response. Does she intend to respond positively to the judgment by recasting the capacity market to reflect remedies for this lack of equal access, or is she perhaps hoping that, after a decent interval—and a lot of damage to existing participants in the capacity market—normal service will be resumed?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman raises an incredibly important point. We have been working on this issue closely with the industry for several months since the judgment came forward, and it is absolutely right that we reassure the industry and investors of our commitment to holding auctions in the near future to ensure electricity supply for next winter, and that we do all that we can to ensure that this market is put back on a legal and orderly basis. It does work—it is the envy of many countries around the world—and we are working closely with Ofgem and the industry to ensure that we can take that market capacity structure forward.

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[Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the potential effectiveness of the Paris rulebook agreed at COP24 in meeting the Paris agreement goal of holding the increase in global average temperature to less than 2° C.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

I want to pay tribute to our UK negotiating team, which did such a fantastic job at the recent conference of the parties in developing a robust set of rules that will take us forward to achieve what we need, which is further hardcore nationally determined contributions in 2020. We want to use our leadership in this space to continue progress, which was why I was pleased to announce our expression of interest in hosting the 2020 COP right here in the UK. I hope the hon. Gentleman will support that.

[Mr Sharma]

I thank the Minister for that response. What sanctions are the Government willing to use to ensure that other countries meet their 2020 emission reduction targets?

[Claire Perry]

We do not have the power to sanction under international law—or, indeed, under the current United Nations proposals—but we can work positively through initiatives such as the Powering Past Coal Alliance, which I was pleased to set up with my Canadian equivalent last year, to encourage all countries that, like us, are committed to phasing coal out of their energy system in a short period. We now have more than 80 members a year after launch, so we can continue to lead by example.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. When his Department plans to publish its proposals on rewards for small-scale renewable energy exports to the grid.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

I want to give the hon. Gentleman the good news that I will be publishing today the next stages of our proposals for a smart export guarantee to reflect two principles: that nobody should be providing energy to the grid for free, or indeed at negative pricing, as has happened in some countries; and that the value of community energy projects, which is real and significant, can be recognised. That consultation will be published later today and I look forward to his response, because I know he is a long-standing campaigner in this area.

[Geraint Davies]

It would have been useful to have had that publication before Question Time to enable informed questions to be asked. I put it to the Minister that some 60 MW of solar energy in Wales alone rely on the export tariffs. Will she be looking at differential tariffs for existing versus new providers, so that there is no breach of contract with existing providers, and ensure that tariffs are set so as to encourage solar rather than fracking and so that we are in accordance with our Paris commitments, which have just been referred to?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman should know that we have signalled for many years how the closure of the feed-in tariff will work. We have spent almost £6 billion on existing contracts, and those contracts will of course be honoured. We have also announced with the closure of the scheme that there is a limited application period for projects for the next couple of months. There will be some that are brought forward, but it is only right that, as the price of this power provision has tumbled, we stop using other people’s money to subsidise something that we do not need to do in order to bring forward solar.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

While we have been in the Chamber, the Minister’s consultation has gone online, and Members and the public have until 5 March to respond to it. What reassurance can she give that those responses will be listened to? There is concern in the solar industry and among others that 91% of responses to a previous consultation by her Department were against the end of export tariffs, yet that went ahead. Will she meet me and an excellent local business, AES Solar, which has concerns but would like to discuss them with her and community representatives?

[Claire Perry]

I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend and I am also very interested in the consultation results. I want to make the point quickly that the era of crude subsidy is over, partly because the price of renewables has dropped so significantly. We are trying to ensure that bringing forward the decentralised energy that we believe is so important to our system is also the objective of this tariff, and I would be interested to hear his views as well as those of his constituents.

[Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)]

11. What steps he is taking to support the manufacturing and automotive sector.

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[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

T2. Fracking activities in Lancashire have recently had to be suspended because earth tremors triggered the traffic lights system. As a result, the Minister has said that she is now looking at whether that system should be relaxed. Will she tell us what she is thinking, and will she give us an assurance that there will be full consultation with all stakeholders before any change is made, and that the matter will be brought back to this House for the approval of Members?

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

I think I have answered a similar question before, although not from the hon. Gentleman. I have absolutely no plans to change the traffic lights system. The current fracking proposals being tested in Lancashire right now were developed with that system. The fact is that that system is working and being triggered even by micro-tremors; the hon. Gentleman will know that we have had some great evidence from the University of Liverpool as to how small the tremors actually are. If we are to take forward what could be a very valuable industry, it is only right that we do so with the toughest environmental regulations in the world, so I say again that there are no plans from the Government to change the traffic lights system.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

T4. With the high street undergoing a period of significant upheaval, will the Secretary of State confirm that he is working closely with the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government to ensure that high street businesses are able to compete on a level taxation playing field with their online competitors?

[Laura Pidcock (North West Durham) (Lab)]

New research from the TUC shows that household debt is at its highest ever level, with average debt per household now at over £15,000. It is blatantly obvious that the cause is years of austerity and wage stagnation. Millions of workers are now reliant on borrowing, making up for low wages by increasing their debt—not for holiday or luxuries, but through using credit cards for everyday essential such as nappies and food. That is so stressful. Will the Minister please explain what the Government are doing to address this crisis, and why Conservative Members refuse to join the Labour party in advocating a real minimum wage of at least £10 an hour and a return to serious collective bargaining for workers in the UK?

[Claire Perry]

I heard the news reports of this particular analysis, but I also heard that the analysis had been entirely discredited because it included student debt, which does not accrue to every household. If we were to strip that out, the rate of accrual—[Interruption.] Would the hon. Lady like to listen, rather than chunter? I will carry on. If we strip out student debt, which does not accrue to every household, we see that the growth of consumer credit has actually slowed. Once again, I am proud to stand here and represent the Government who finally did what the hon. Lady’s Government had 13 years and did not do—introduce a national minimum wage and ensure that it goes up well ahead of inflation. [Interruption.] A living wage.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Will Quince. [Interruption.] I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is delighted to have excited such a reaction, but I would like to hear what he has to say.

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[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

T7. The Minister will be aware of the rising cost of the smart meter programme for dual-fuel households. What is she going to do to curtail those costs, make transparent the true cost to households, and ensure that any benefits that eventually accrue are actually passed on to consumers?

[Claire Perry]

I had an inkling that the hon. Gentleman might ask a question about this, because he has been a long-standing campaigner in this area. I am pleased to report that the programme is accelerating; I know he will welcome that. I welcomed extensively the National Audit Office report on the cost profile, which showed, effectively, a cost overrun but still a very, very substantial net benefit to both consumers and the economy. I believe that we are minded to accept almost all of the recommendations that were made. This is a vital programme for upgrading our energy system. I hope that he has had his smart meter installed. I saw over Christmas quite how much electricity cooking the Christmas turkey cost, and it was a very valuable exercise.

[Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)]

What role does the Minister see for the push on technical skills in boosting youth entrepreneurship?

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[Laura Pidcock]

Under her breath, the Minister for Energy and Clean Growth mentioned the living wage, but of course in practice there is no such thing. The Minister could correct the record in that it was indeed the Labour party that in 1998 introduced the minimum wage, which her party strongly opposed.

[Claire Perry]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Sorry; I am blaming the excitement. Of course I am happy to correct the record. The hon. Lady is absolutely correct: the Labour party introduced the national minimum wage. It was quite clear that that was inadequate for many people on the lowest incomes, particularly women who were underpaid, which is why we introduced the national living wage—something I wish she would support.

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you. I am extremely grateful to the Minister.

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[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Lady has achieved her own salvation. It seems to me that she has used the device of an entirely bogus point of order to register a point that she probably would have wanted to register if she had been called to do so, but could not because she was not.

[Claire Perry]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I was delighted to answer a question on this very point, because our negotiation team was, as always, excellent. I was also happy to accredit the hon. Lady; I do not know whether she managed to attend our superb stand and entire presence at Katowice. My door is always open to her, as an expert in this area, to discuss this. I do not think an oral statement will be necessary. Perhaps she and I could grab a cup of tea, as this is dry January, and have such a conversation.

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you.