Finance Bill

Chris Vince Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, mental health, more broadly, is a priority for this Government. On the policy around VAT on private school fees, the impact on pupils in private schools having to change to a state school is expected to be very limited. The Government estimate that 35,000 pupils—less than 0.5% of all state school pupils—will leave, or never enter, the private sector as a result of this policy. Those movements will take place over a number of years, and only 3,000 pupils are estimated to move within the current academic year. To put that number in context for the hon. Gentleman, every year many pupils move between schools, including between private schools and the state sector. A Department for Education report published in 2022 looking at moves between state schools and out of state schools, found that almost 60,000 moves take place every year. As he will know, pupil numbers in schools fluctuate regularly for a number of reasons, and the school funding system in England is already set up to manage that.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my hon. Friend not think it ironic that Conservative Members are talking about the mental health of students? They did not consider that when they made changes to the state system. As a former teacher, I know the massive impact on young people’s mental health of the Conservative party’s decision to move from lettered grades to numbered grades at short notice, to completely change the syllabus and not to provide the resources or textbooks that teachers needed to teach those courses.

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that the lack of funding that the previous Government put into the state sector has implications. It takes a toll on children if schools are not properly funded. If the capital budgets for schools are not properly funded, as well as their revenue budgets, that has an impact on children’s lives. That is why the funding that we are putting into schools is something for which I will make no apology. The fact that we are having to take difficult decisions to fund it is the nature of government. I note that Conservative Members are happy to support our investment in state schools, but they refuse to support the difficult decisions necessary to generate that funding. Frankly, that underscores how far away they are from even being a credible Opposition.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Hinds]

On three counts, I am afraid that is incorrect. First, it does not cover everybody with special needs at a private school. Secondly, the IFS has not said that there is ample space in state schools, nor could it possibly know that. Thirdly, and most importantly, the point on which I was heckled, and on which I invited somebody to intervene, was a completely different one. My point was that unlike in quite a large number of countries, here there is no tax break for those using independent education providers. Everybody contributes towards state education through general taxation; if we take up a private school place, that contribution does not reduce.

In the modelling that goes with the Finance Bill, the Government say that they expect a little over £1.5 billion to be raised from the measure in maturity. We do not know the detail of the modelling and how robust the analysis is. However, I agree, intuitively, with the Treasury that a small part of the effect will be felt immediately in January, but that the effect will really start from September 2025. It will be felt gradually, through some children leaving the independent sector; the bigger effect will probably be from those who do not start in the independent sector in the first place, or who do not start their next phase of education in the sector.

I am not totally clear from what the Treasury has published whether it factors in all the effects of the change. It obviously factors in families who are directly priced out of the independent sector, but what about those who are indirectly displaced, because they were at a school where a number of other families were priced out and the school had to close? Does it factor in the higher number of education, health and care plan applications that will be made, and the much higher than average per-place cost that the state will have to meet for those displaced?

I am also unclear whether the Treasury’s analysis looks at all the effects on independent education cumulatively. Yes, there is the VAT, which is in the Finance Bill, but there are also a number of other measures being taken this year that materially affect the cost base of independent schools, and that is likely to be reflected in fees. They include the increased contribution to the teacher pension scheme; business rates changes, which affect about half of independent schools; and the massive hike in employer national insurance contributions, which will affect so many sectors.

All those are transfers from the independent state sector to the Exchequer, so the real increase in the cost base for that sector will be considerably more than 20% over the course of the year. In the Minister’s summing up, I would love her to tell us what assumption was made about the total average price increase. Whatever it was, the Government calculate that, in the policy’s maturity, 37,000 children will be displaced from the independent sector, and of those, 35,000 will go to the state sector. Ministers say, “Don’t worry; there are loads of places available in the state sector.” In fact, the hon. Member for Barking (Nesil Caliskan) suggested that a third party had said that as well, and the Exchequer Secretary said it again in his remarks. He said that we are talking about 0.5% of the total population in state schools. It is useless to have places available in primary schools in inner London if that is not the age group of people leaving the independent sector. The effect will be uneven across the country, and need is concentrated largely in secondary schools and sixth forms.

There are plenty of places where even a small number of children being displaced from one sector to the other could have a big effect on the state school system. What discussions have Ministers had with colleagues, and with councils in Salford, Stockport, Sale, Bury, Bedford, Bristol and so on? I could name considerably more. What contingency plans are in place?

[Chris Vince]

indicated dissent.

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Gentleman shakes his head. I take it that means that he has not had those conversations. [Interruption.] I am happy to take an intervention from him. What contingency plans are in place for September if the displacement is greater than anticipated? We know that the money will follow the pupil if more pupils turn up in the state sector, but we have not heard whether that money is coming out of general Exchequer receipts—in other words, that the Department for Education will not be expected to find that money from elsewhere in its budget. Similarly, what are the contingency plans, and what capital has been set aside in case extra capital funding is needed? As well as the displacement of pupils, there is also potential displacement of teachers, as we have heard from the unions.

[Chris Vince]

As the right hon. Gentleman encouraged me to intervene, I will agree that there will be a movement of teachers from the private sector back to the state sector. As a former teacher, I know a number of former colleagues who left the state sector because of the failings of the last Conservative Government, and they are considering going back into state education only because of the hope that the new Labour Government have given them.

[Damian Hinds]

Well, we shall see. As a teacher, he will know that teachers move between the state and independent sectors all the time. They move in both directions, but that is not what the Association of School and College Leaders was talking about. It was talking about the fact that the change is being made mid-year, and said that it carried a risk of redundancies, and of the permanent loss of teachers to the profession.

Labour Members—the hon. Member for Harlow (Chris Vince) is one of them—frequently like to say to Opposition Members that we have to choose. They say: “Are you on the side of the many or the few? Are you with 94% or the 6%?”. Well, we refuse to choose. It is not a question of whether we care about the 94% or the 6%. We care about the 100%—all the children. It is definitely true and right that at the Department for Education—this was true when I was a Minister there—Ministers spend way more than 94% of their time and effort on the state sector. In our time in government, between 2010 and 2024, that paid off with huge results. When we supported our brilliant teachers in their great work, our results went up. We went from 27th in the world to 11th for maths, and from 25th in the world to 13th for reading. We had the best primary school readers in the western world. Free school meal eligible children were 50% more likely to go on to university, and the number of schools rated less than good was down from one in three to fewer than one in 10. That was through supporting teachers, academy trusts, a broad knowledge-rich curriculum and the propagation and spread—from school to school and teacher to teacher—of proven methods, such as maths mastery and synthetic phonics.

Yes, the system does also need money. Per-pupil funding under the last Government was higher than it was under previous Labour Governments. Among the G7 nations, it was middle of the range in cash per child, and the highest as a proportion of national income. Of course, we have to keep increasing the resourcing that we put into key services, none more so than education, but the Conservatives did that as a priority from general taxation, not by taking from another part of the wider education system. I repeat: the Government do not have to choose. These are all children.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I wish first to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) for her fantastic maiden speech. Knowing that I had the graveyard spot—or, as we call it in this place, the “Jim Shannon spot”—I took a moment to pop to the Tea Room to have a cup of tea, and I visited southderbyshire.co.uk. I own a dog named after a previous Labour Prime Minister, and I am looking forward to taking him to South Derbyshire—

[Chris Curtis (Milton Keynes North) (Lab)]

Which one?

[Chris Vince]

I don’t really want to give away my dog’s name—I don’t know why.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak in support of the Bill. This is not just another piece of legislation; it is a crucial step towards boosting growth in some of our most dynamic industries, from the creative sector to financial services. It is aimed at repairing our public finances and bringing much-needed economic and fiscal stability, and it considers every person from every walk of life to create a fairer future for everyone. Last week the Chancellor outlined the Government’s plans for growth, focusing on high-growth sectors that will drive our economy forward. The Bill is a key part of that vision, introducing important tax changes to support the UK’s creative industries, speed up our shift to clean energy and enhance our financial markets.

For too long the burden of taxation has fallen disproportionately on working people. The Bill addresses that imbalance—it finds that balance and the fairest way to do it. By choosing not to extend the freeze on income tax and national insurance thresholds, the Government are ensuring that personal tax thresholds will rise with inflation from April 2028. That protects hard-working families from what I would consider stealth tax increases. The Bill also delivers on the promise to maintain the fuel duty freeze and a temporary 5p cut. I know that is welcome for residents and motorists in Harlow, as they have suffered for many years with the appalling state of the roads. We all know about the dreaded potholes, and the Government are doing what they can on that as well.

I will not go on too much about the removal of the VAT exemption on private schools, because I spent a lot of time talking about that on Monday. However, I am delighted that it will generate additional revenue to invest in our public services, including our schools. A number of schools in Harlow have suffered with reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, and one school—Sir Frederick Gibberd college—is having to be completely rebuilt because of the previous Government’s failings.

This Finance Bill is more than just a collection of tax adjustments; it is a forward-looking plan that lays the foundation for a resilient economy. It reflects the Government’s commitment to supporting key industries that are vital to our nation, investing in sectors that promise sustainable growth, and ensuring that the UK remains at the forefront of global innovation. It creates a fair and balanced future for all.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Minister.