National Minimum Wage

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

I was elected in 1997 in a Labour landslide on a manifesto with a commitment to introduce the national minimum wage. It was Keir Hardie who, in 1906, put forward the idea of a national minimum wage and it took almost 100 years to deliver it. Incidentally, he also proposed devolution for Wales, Ireland and Scotland and reform of the House of Lords. Both of those were introduced after Labour’s historic win in 1997.

When I was a parliamentary candidate in 1996, I organised a low-pay survey in my constituency. The person who came out top—or should I say bottom—was a taxi driver who was on £1 an hour. There were other incidences of women in the care sector who were working 12-hour night shifts for £2.50 an hour.

Seaside towns such as Rhyl probably benefited more than anywhere else from the introduction of a national minimum wage. A table produced by the House of Commons Research Department shows that 29% of those who worked in hotels and restaurants and in the entertainment industry were affected by the national minimum wage. In seaside towns, we have a huge number of care homes and the second biggest sector to benefit, at 15.1%, was the one that undertakes community and social services activities. Seaside towns have done really well under the national minimum wage.

Could any of us in the Chamber today work for £1 an hour or its equivalent today? Could we have brought up our families on £2.50 an hour, working throughout the night? I have a great deal of respect for the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on these issues, as he is what I would consider to be a compassionate Conservative, but he said that he was concerned about unsustainable levels when this is about trying to increase pay for people on the lowest rung by 50p or £1 an hour. We never hear about the unsustainable levels of high pay. For example, two captains of industry in the energy companies were given £14 million and £15 million golden handshakes without a peep from the Conservative party. It is one law for the rich and one for the poor.

[Mr Anderson]

My hon. Friend spoke about care workers’ pay before the 1997 election. I was then a negotiator for care workers in the public sector, who were getting at least £5 an hour—twice as much. We introduced this legislation because people were being exploited by private companies. Is that not the same worry that we see today?

[Chris Ruane]

I concur entirely.

When we want to improve the efficiency of businesses, we say that we must pay those at the top as much as we can to reward their energy and enterprise and that we must reduce the pay of those at the bottom because it is in their own best interest. There is one rule for the rich and one for the poor.

[Katy Clark]

Of course, we did not hear from the Secretary of State this afternoon about the fact that although most people in this country face a cost of living crisis and although wages are going down for the vast majority, those at the top are doing very well, thank you very much. The salaries of chief executives and those at the top are soaring. At the time of the 1997 election, we heard time and again that we could not afford the national minimum wage. Does my hon. Friend agree that the arguments we are hearing now should be treated in the same way as those arguments were then?

[Chris Ruane]

Absolutely. The Conservatives were whingeing when I raised these points, but it is obscene that the Chancellor of the Exchequer scurries off to Brussels to protect the multimillion pound bonuses of British bankers at the same time as he is reducing workers’ rates by £1,600 a year.

[Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Chris Ruane]

No, I will not.

More than 7,000 people have visited me in Parliament since I was elected in 1997. Many have been schoolchildren and sixth formers. I always allocate a good period of time for questions and one of the most common questions is, “What are you most proud of from your 16 years as an MP?” I am most proud of this piece of legislation, which Labour introduced in 1998. It is totemic. It was an indicator at that historical time of what Labour was about and what the Tories were about. We were for the many and they were for the few. I welcome the massive U-turn that the Conservatives have made on that, but it is too little too late.

[Mr MacNeil]

rose—

[Chris Ruane]

I am afraid that I must make progress, as I am now using up my own time. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) and for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) for their interventions as they gave me an extra two minutes, which I am eating into now.

The policy was resisted tooth and nail by the Tories. The House sat for two days in the Chamber and there were 70 hours of debate in Committee between 22 January and 17 February 1998. The Tories made the direst predictions about the introduction of the national minimum wage, predicting that 2 million jobs would be lost and every single person who received an increase would be sacked. That was absolute nonsense; an extra 2 million jobs were created.

The then Secretary of State for Wales, the right hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), said:

“He is right: the adoption of a minimum wage and the social chapter would gravely inhibit employment opportunities in Wales. There is no question about that.”—[Official Report, 27 February 1997; Vol. 291, c. 461.]

What about when the Conservatives were closing down the steel mills and the coal mines in south Wales? Did that gravely inhibit employment opportunities in Wales? He said:

“Adoption of the social chapter and a minimum wage would price tens of thousands out of their jobs along with hundreds of thousands throughout the rest of the United Kingdom.”—[Official Report, 17 March 1997; Vol. 292, c. 609.]

He was on the mild side in referring to hundreds of thousands; the Conservative party nationally was predicting 2 million job losses. The Conservatives fought tooth and nail against the legislation, but it was passed. That is the proudest moment of my time here in the House.

In my constituency, we saw no job losses. We saw the number of people in employment go from 23,000 to 30,000. The St Asaph business park, which was built by the Conservatives in my constituency at the cost of £11 million, was empty for seven years. When Labour came to power, it was filled, and there are now more than 2,000 jobs on the park.

The national minimum wage legislation is fantastic, but we should not rest on our laurels. We need to move upwards and onwards to the next frontier, which, as has been mentioned by hon. Members, including shadow Ministers, is zero-hours contracts and a living wage. We need to push for better conditions and better payments for workers. That is in the best interests of those workers, their families and the economy.

Transport Infrastructure (North Wales)

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

I welcome you to the Chair, Mr Caton. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I am pleased to have secured this debate on an important issue. I will mainly concentrate on north-east Wales, particularly its economic importance, the history of the area and why the transport links that we have now and that we hope to have in future are so important.

The area, whether people want to call it the Deeside hub or Mersey-Dee, covers Flintshire, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Cheshire west, Chester and Wirral, with a population of about 1 million and gross value added of some £17 billion a year. Some 83% of the area’s journeys start and finish in the area. More than 17,000 people commute across the border to England, and some 10,000 go the other way. There are also students who go to Chester, and students going the other way to Glyndwr university.

I am pleased to say that the area contains many modern and very successful manufacturers, with Airbus, Toyota, Shotton paper, Tata Steel Colors, ConvaTec and many more on the Deeside industrial park. On the other side of the border, we have Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port, Bank of America and, again, many more. Indeed, north Wales accounts for more than 30% of the manufacturing output of Wales as a whole. I know that colleagues both in England and in Wales are surprised at the size and skill levels of some of those factories and at the number of jobs involved. My hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) will no doubt talk about the Technium in St Asaph, and my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) will talk about Wylfa in Anglesey.

Airbus employs more than 6,500 people, 60% of whom live in Wales, coming from as far afield as Anglesey. The other 40% live in England, coming from as far afield as Derby, or so I am advised—that seems a fairly long commute to me, but apparently it is the case. There is substantial spend in the local economy, but those people need to get to and from their place of work. The supply chain is beginning to site in the local area, which, again, is creating more jobs. The big danger is that we take all that for granted, as if it will be there for ever and a day.

I have told this story before, but I will tell it again because I think it is worth telling. When I entered Parliament in 2001, before giving my maiden speech—I am sure other colleagues did the same—I looked at what my predecessor did. My predecessor, who is now Lord Jones, talked about the two great powerhouses of the area, which were Courtaulds Textiles and British Steel. One of those companies has gone altogether, and the other is still important but employs only a fraction of the numbers it did back then. It still holds the record for the most job losses on a single day at a single plant, when more than 8,000 people lost their job. We cannot assume that, just because companies are big and employ a lot of people, they will be there for ever and a day.

Many other areas that suffered in the 1980s have still not recovered, but because of the efforts of Flintshire county council and others, including my predecessor Lord Jones, new investment was attracted to the area, and we have managed to build on that. Importantly, we want to attract companies that will stay, not just companies that come because they want grant assistance and that will then up stumps and move somewhere else. We want long-term investment not only in buildings but in the work force. Even in good times, we have seen that successful companies can still fail. I remember when we thought that the optical fibre market was doing extremely well, but it crashed overnight and the high-tech factory closed. We lost quality jobs in a relative boom period.

We are getting by okay at the moment, so why do we need to improve and update our transport network? To be honest, we are barely getting by. If we get the level of growth in the local area for which we hope, we will need to improve things, because our transport system is creaking at the seams in places. The Mersey Dee Alliance carried out research, which is included in both the Haywood and the north-east Wales integrated transport taskforce reports to the Assembly, showing that we can expect to get between 40,000 and 50,000 jobs in the next 20 years. That figure comprises Mersey waters enterprise zone, with 20,000 jobs; Deeside enterprise zone, with 5,000 to 7,000 jobs; 4,500 jobs at Ellesmere Port; Ince resource recovery park, with 3,200 jobs; the university of Chester’s Thornton site, with 2,000 to 4,000 jobs; central Chester business district, with more than 1,000 jobs; the Northgate project, Chester, with 1,600 jobs; Wrexham industrial estate and western gateway, with 2,500 jobs; 7,500 jobs in Denbighshire; Vauxhall Motors, with 700 jobs; and Bank of America, with 1,000 jobs. So we hope that a substantial number of jobs will come to the area during the next 20 years, which is positive stuff, but we need a modern transport system that works to ensure that that happens.

We are already over-dependent on car usage. In Flintshire, more than 80% of people use their car to travel to work, which is a very high figure—Flintshire had the highest car usage in the country, but I do not know whether it still does—and I am sure the figure is not much different in other parts of Wales. I do not think that is just because people like using their car; it is because there is a problem getting anywhere using any other system of transport.

The north-east Wales integrated transport taskforce report of June 2013 clearly highlights some of the problems that we are facing. I will illustrate them by referring to a few journeys to the Deeside industrial park. From Flint by car it would take an estimated 16usb minutes, and by public transport 43 minutes, which is not too bad. Rhyl is 39 minutes by car, or one hour and 25 minutes via a bus and a train with one change. Denbigh is 44 minutes by car, or two hours and 17 minutes by public transport—a bus and a train, two changes. Wrexham is 32 minutes by car, or one hour and 25 minutes by public transport—it is a bus and two changes, even from Wrexham. Frodsham is 24 minutes by car, or one hour and 14 minutes by bus and train, again involving two changes.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. Two of the big centres that he mentioned, the Airbus factory and the Deeside industrial park, are on the north Wales line. Is there a case for building dedicated stations on the Deeside industrial park and at Airbus itself?

[Mark Tami]

I think there is, and I will talk about why we need a dedicated station. It is important that we make it easy for people to move about, because there is a lot of anecdotal evidence showing that some people are not taking up jobs that are perhaps not well paid because the difficulty and cost of getting to that job outweigh the benefits of taking it. We need to address that.

What do we need to do? On road improvements, we have a pretty good system, but there are pinch points. Considerable work has been done on the M56 to sort out problems on the English side of the border, but there is a pinch point on the A494 and the A55 around Queensferry and Aston Hill. With the creation of the Deeside enterprise zone, that will probably get worse, rather than better. In saying that, I am certainly not arguing for the original proposal, which was totally out of proportion to what was required. At one point, it included 13 lanes—I think it could have been seen from space. It failed to take account of local issues, and there were serious local concerns about that.

I think we can do things relatively cheaply—we are in difficult financial times. As someone who uses the road a lot, I know that most of the problems are caused by lorries and, in the summer, caravans slowing down. A crawler lane could deal with a lot of those problems.

Whatever we do, we need noise protection measures. We also need to involve local people. The Assembly is looking at the issue, and I have written to the Transport Minister about it. The problem is that there is a lot of uncertainty, which makes it difficult for people to sell their houses or to know the size of the project they will face. I recognise that £70 million has been earmarked for improvements further into Wales. I read the other day that another crossing to Anglesey was being considered, depending on what borrowing powers deliver.

A further pinch point is between the A483 and the A55. As someone who has sat in traffic there on many occasions, I know that it causes a bit of a problem. Again, it could be sorted out relatively easily. I am always struck—this perhaps demonstrates that we need more joined-up government—by the fact that the A483 has tarmac on it on the Welsh side of the border. I actually know when I am entering England, because I drop off the tarmac and on to concrete slabs. I do not know why the two Administrations could not just have spoken to each other and sorted the whole thing out in one go, but clearly that did not happen.

As I said, we do not have a bad road network; it needs improving, but it does not need major surgery. The same cannot be said for our rail network, which is particularly poor—especially for people in the Mersey-Dee area who use it to commute to work. The Wrexham-Bidston line goes through the whole area, and it is an ideal solution to many of the transport issues I have talked about. There is great potential, but the service’s frequency and reliability are, unfortunately, not what the average commuter expects.

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[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Caton, and to follow the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson). I am pleased to be involved in this debate, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) on not only securing it, but articulating a positive view of the future of the Welsh economy.

It is important that we should sometimes speak as Members for north Wales, rather than trying to make party political points, and the spirit of the debate has been positive. We are all extremely proud of the success of the north-east Wales economy, which, it is fair to say, is interlinked with that of the north-west of England. As a Member for a constituency further west, I want to see some of north-east Wales’s success move along the A55 and the railway line to ensure that more of north Wales benefits from the economic performance of north-east Wales.

The success of north-east Wales—I am thinking of Airbus in particular—is putting Wales on the map. A week and a half ago, when the announcement was made about Airbus’s success in securing further significant orders, I happened to be in Washington, and it is my pleasure to say that both Senators and Congressmen were aware of Wales, mainly because of the success of Airbus. For Wales to be known for the high-skill, high-technology industry in the area is an important development.

On the performance of our predecessors, I should say that before making my maiden speech, I read Lord Roberts of Conwy’s, but I felt depressed afterwards. He said that he wanted to do two things during his time in Parliament—first, to ensure that there was a dual carriageway from Chester to Holyhead, which was delivered—

[Chris Ruane]

It is 25 miles short!

[Guto Bebb]

Almost to Holyhead. Lord Roberts also wanted to ensure that Bangor had a new general hospital, which was delivered. When preparing a maiden speech, looking at a predecessor’s performance can be a sobering experience.

The road infrastructure in north Wales is actually fairly good, but we need to consider whether we can deal with some of the pinch points, not least those on the A55, which can create difficulties—in particular on summer Friday nights when people are heading into Wales for the weekend from the north-west and Yorkshire and any accident or problem can cause severe delays.

The A55 is a designated Euroroute and yet that dual carriageway has two roundabouts in my constituency—the only two roundabouts on Euroroutes in the whole of Europe. I can assure everyone that the caravans and tourists trying to get down to Anglesey or the Llyn peninsula make returning from my constituency office on a Friday night a difficult journey. The A55 does need some improvements, but we should be fairly pleased with the current road infrastructure.

We need to look carefully at the required investment in rail. Anybody who travels from London to north Wales is well aware that there is a two-hour service to Chester, where one must often change trains and enter what feels like a less effective system. The mere fact that it takes two hours to get from London to Chester, but then another hour and 45 minutes to reach Holyhead is indicative of the problems.

I warmly welcome the announcement of the £200 million- plus investment in signalling on the north Wales main line, but we need to keep up the pressure for electrification. It is to be welcomed that the Government are delivering electrification in south Wales—in particular on the valley lines—but we need to argue the case for north Wales. Signalling will make a huge difference to speed and capacity, but I acknowledge that we need to look at electrification as the long-term goal. The north Wales railway line can take high-speed rail, by which I mean a speed much faster than the current performance. Much of that can be achieved through signalling, but we must keep up the pressure for electrification.

Given the growth and renaissance of Liverpool, the fact that there is no direct link from there to north Wales is problematic. People in my constituency travel to Airbus, to Deeside and over the border for work, and I am sure that they would travel even further afield if the transport links existed. I would support a direct link into Liverpool.

We should, however, be confident of the fact that positive things are happening on the railway, and not only in signalling. Virgin Trains has plans to develop services in north Wales. My constituency is dependent on tourism, so a service from Llandudno Junction to London in three and a quarter hours, which is what Virgin envisages as possible, would make a huge difference. To be able to say that a constituency such as mine was within three hours and 15 minutes of London would be a huge boost to tourism in my area.

The Conwy valley railway has also seen significant investment into communication for the cabs travelling up and down the line. It is an important link, but we sometimes think of it as a line that happened to escape the Beeching cuts. I recently gave a hitchhiker a lift from Tal-y-Cafn back to Dolwyddelan when on my way to a surgery. The gentleman in question worked at the new Bodnant Welsh food centre. He catches the train down from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Tal-y-Cafn in the morning and then hitchhikes back in the evening, because he cannot afford the rail fare. He wanted to work, so he preferred to do that than be unemployed in Blaenau Ffestiniog. He cannot hitchhike in the morning, because he needs to be in work for 8 am, so the only way he can make it is via the Conwy valley railway.

Another important point about the line is that my constituency and that of the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) have both seen huge development in outdoor sports, such as mountain biking. Market research in the area shows that many of those who visit for such sports would really like to travel by public transport, so the Conwy valley railway is important. My aspiration is that such people should go biking on the new tracks at Blaenau Ffestiniog while staying at Betws-y-Coed or other places in my constituency. The railways are getting some investment, but we need more.

Before I finish, I have a few points to make about infrastructure. When discussing infrastructure, we need to talk about broadband. The fact that 10% of the broadband fund has been spent in Wales is a real success for the Government and a great success for the partnership between Westminster and the Assembly. The important investment from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, which has been matched and supported by the Welsh Government, is most welcome.

If we aspire towards a modern economy, broadband infrastructure is just as important as any transport link. Frankly, in an area aspiring to have new businesses, saying that we have no broadband capability is not very persuasive. That is also true from a tourism perspective; time and again I am told by businesses in my constituency that the lack of broadband capability and of wi-fi affects them.

All that must be underpinned by the skills sector. We can talk about the need to invest in infrastructure—whether road, rail or broadband—to our hearts’ content, but we must also underpin all that by training our young people so that they can take the job opportunities. In that respect, the investments in Deeside college, Glyndwr university and, in my constituency, Llandrillo—including the support of Coleg Menai, which is part of Grwp Llandrillo Menai, for the energy sector—provide examples of the further education sector supporting the jobs that, without doubt, we hope to see in north Wales.

Infrastructure is important, yes, but unless we have the skills base in place, we will not be able to exploit the economic potential of the area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Caton. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), who secured this debate for us, for his good work in promoting north Wales and his constituency in Parliament.

I will talk first about rail transport in north Wales. In the 19th century, rail transformed north Wales. My home town of Rhyl had a population of 1,000, but when the train came in 1849, it turned Rhyl into a premier tourist destination. Rail also opened up the port of Holyhead and the train route to Ireland, bringing great wealth to north Wales.

In the mid-20th century, rail took a dip with the advent of Beeching. Many smaller lines in north Wales and throughout the UK were closed, but in the 21st century we are looking at a rail renaissance. North Wales MPs must ensure that we receive our fair share of the UK transport budget. London and the south-east have had massive input into their transport infrastructure. They have had Eurostar; Crossrail, one of the biggest construction projects in Europe, is being built; and Heathrow airport has been extended. Many people in the south and London do not want what they believe is over-intensification.

MPs must look at the regional impact of transport investment. There should be a rebalancing towards Wales and north-west England, and we in north Wales must ensure that we tap into that transport infrastructure. We must also ensure that we do not get just crumbs from the table, as we did when Virgin’s rolling stock was upgraded and we ended up with Voyagers instead of Pendolinos. We must ensure that we are not short-changed on electrification of the north Wales line, and that we get transport links to the Manchester end of HS2 so that we have the proper investment to attract tourists and manufacturers to north Wales.

The road infrastructure in north Wales is also important to bring in tourists and manufacturing as well as research and development. I pay tribute to the work of Glyndwr university, which called the A55 a “knowledge corridor”. In my constituency, it has invested in the optic research and development centre, which won a £200 million bid to create the optics for the extra large telescope that will be located in the Atacama desert. That is the sort of 21st-century investment we need in north Wales.

There is a proposal for an A55 science corridor from St Asaph business park in my constituency all the way to Daresbury near Manchester, taking in Airbus and the optic research and development centre to bring that science corridor alive with jobs and investment. That is important.

Airports are essential for us in north Wales. Our regional airports are Liverpool and Manchester, and public transport links to them are very poor. If investment is coming, we must ensure that we have coach and rail links direct to those airports. I take on board the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen)—Ynys Môn is fair old distance from Liverpool and Manchester—that there is a definite need for an airport in north-west Wales.

My hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside mentioned the jobs growth in his constituency at the Deeside industrial estate and at Airbus. There are already tens of thousands of jobs there, and tens of thousands are to come. We must ensure that workers from the unemployment hot spots on the north Wales coast at Holyhead, Bangor, Colwyn Bay, Rhyl and Flint can get on the train in their home town and get off at dedicated stations for the Airbus factory and the Deeside industrial estate, where the jobs are. Will the Minister look at the Department for Work and Pensions transport grants that were available about 10 years ago to help to link people to jobs?

As well as speaking about the big stuff—airports, rail and road—I want to speak about cycling in my constituency. My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) referred to the north Wales coastal path, which brought 416,000 visitors to his county last year. It is a fantastic facility for north Wales and I pay tribute to Sustrans for attracting millions of pounds of lottery funding for the UK coastal footpath and cycleway. A £4 million dedicated cycle bridge, Pont Dafydd, was opened in my constituency two weeks ago, and I am grateful to the Welsh Government for their investment in that, to the European regional development fund, to Sustrans and to Denbighshire county council. Cycling is an important form of local transport. My constituency has the finest off-road cycle networks in Wales, and I pay tribute to Adrian Walls, the cycling officer for Denbighshire, Gren Kershaw, who set up a cycling attraction in my constituency, and Garry Davies and Howard Sutcliffe from Denbighshire’s countryside services, which have provided fantastic cycling facilities.

Finally, the first hovercraft passenger service in the whole world was from Rhyl to Wallasey in 1963. Is a future transport link possible across the Dee estuary to link the hundreds of thousands of people on the Wirral and Merseyside directly to Rhyl?

[Martin Caton (in the Chair)]

I will call you now, Mr Williams, but I appeal to you to sit down at 10.40 for the wind-ups.

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[Nia Griffith]

I want to point out, first, that we had all the plans in place for electrification, and the Tory Government wasted time by cancelling them so that we had to campaign to reinstate them. Secondly, as my hon. Friends have already pointed out, there was a certain Minister from Ynys Môn who was the Transport Minister in the Welsh Government from 2007 to 2011, and who seemed to think that electrification in the north was just pie in the sky. Perhaps if he had fought a little harder for it, it would have been higher up the agenda.

[Chris Ruane]

Would my hon. Friend not say that the greatest achievement of the Transport Minister from Ynys Môn was “Ieuan Air”?

[Nia Griffith]

I endorse my hon. Friend’s comment.

Turning back to funding for infrastructure in Wales, borrowing powers are absolutely vital for the Welsh Government to invest further in transport infrastructure in north Wales. However, I am concerned not only about what seem to be considerable delays in the introduction of borrowing powers, but about the fact that the goalposts on borrowing seem to be being moved.

We had the announcement back in October 2012 about borrowing powers. UK Government Ministers have indicated that devolution of the minor taxes is a sufficient independent income stream against which the Welsh Government can borrow for capital expenditure. We therefore need clarity on how much borrowing will be released when the minor taxes are devolved.

However, in the UK Government’s response to the Silk commission, we read that “appropriate short-term borrowing powers” will be given to the Welsh Government to manage lower-than-forecast tax revenues, but it also says that capital borrowing powers will be given and that:

“The precise levels of capital borrowing will…depend on the outcome of the income tax referendum”.

I should remind the Minister that in Scotland, borrowing is not linked to income tax powers in that way. The Scotland Act 2012 gives the Scottish Government the power from April 2015 to borrow up to £500 million for current expenditure to manage volatilities in tax revenue when they gain responsibility for stamp duty and landfill tax. They will also be able to borrow for capital expenditure, with a limit of 10% of the capital budget up to a maximum stock of £2.2 billion. Both those powers are coming into effect prior to income tax-varying powers. According to a similar formula, that would mean that the Welsh Government could borrow about £150 million for capital expenditure. Will the Minister clarify exactly what borrowing powers will be given to the Welsh Government based purely on the devolution of minor taxes? If some borrowing powers are to be linked to the devolution of income tax powers, that is a very different situation from the previous understanding that they were linked to the minor taxes.

Will the Minister explain why there are still delays on the issue of borrowing for the M4? We know that there may be some borrowing powers purely in respect of the M4, as has been mentioned today. First, will he explain what is preventing the Treasury from immediately permitting the Welsh Government to use their existing borrowing powers to finance the much-needed M4 upgrade? Secondly, and more importantly for this debate, as the Welsh Government are being given specific borrowing powers for the M4 first, with a more general borrowing power to follow, what will happen to any north Wales projects? Will they have to wait for a more general borrowing power, which could be until the end of the decade, or will the Minister confirm that borrowing might be available sooner for specific north Wales projects, along the same lines as the M4 borrowing, should the Welsh Government ask for it? Will he please tell us what infrastructure can go ahead in Wales, what extra borrowing powers there will be and what sort of time scale he envisages for all this?

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I pay tribute to the work that my hon. Friend did in government. I will make it a personal priority to ensure that his review sees the light of day and is acted on.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

T7. Why has the number of the working poor doubled since the Chancellor took office?

[Mr Osborne]

The key thing is that people are getting into work. That is another Labour MP who has not acknowledged the fact that unemployment has fallen in his constituency. When will Labour Members acknowledge that our economic plan is repairing the mess that they left behind?

Living Standards (North Wales)

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

I rise today to discuss the living standards in north Wales—the dropping living standards in north Wales.

The TUC reckons that Wales has the lowest levels of disposable income in the UK and has experienced the highest falls in living standards in the UK. There has been a drop in living standards for 38 of the 39 months that this Tory-Lib Dem coalition has been in power. In constituencies in north Wales, the impact has been severe. Between 2007 and 2012, in Flintshire the average pay packet for a 40-hour week dropped by nearly £3,000 and in my own county of Denbighshire it dropped by more than £2,000.

The outward sign of the drop in living standards is, of course, the food banks—the food banks that many Conservative Ministers and MPs refuse to go to when they are repeatedly asked to do so in the main Chamber. I have been to food banks in my constituency and I praise the work of people who volunteer at them; they do a sterling job. I have visited the Wellspring centre in my constituency and shared soup with the people it provided food for. The citizens advice bureau in Denbigh set up a food bank; in fact, it is an award-winning food bank and I congratulate the CAB in Denbigh on it.

The Conservatives say, “Oh, food banks increased by tenfold under Labour.” They did, from 3,000 to about 34,000. Under the Conservatives, however, they have increased from about 40,000 to nearly 400,000—another tenfold increase. The food banks under Labour were peripheral; as I say, there were 34,000 of them, at most. Under the Conservatives, food banks are central. Since 2011, the Government have given instructions to jobcentres to refer people who have no money to food banks. Food banks are part of official Government policy—dare I say official Government philosophy? It is charity versus the state; charity taking the place of the state. It is the big society, or, as I call it, the “beg society”, where soup kitchens are here in the 21st century, having last been seen in the 1930s. As I say, I have shared soup with the people using them.

Will there be a return to the workhouse, the alms house, the deserving poor and the undeserving poor? The language coming from certain sections and certain MPs on the right—I do not include the Minister here today in that group—is disgraceful. I will give a case in point. The Education Secretary said that the people who visit these food banks

“are not…able to manage their finances.”—[Official Report, 9 September 2013; Vol. 567, c. 681.]

Could the Education Secretary himself “manage” his finances on £56 a week, if he was a young person, or on £71 a week, if he was over 25? I think not—that money would hardly cover the price of a bottle of Moët. The Government have the wrong priorities—while they are forcing people to use food banks, they are giving a £44,000 handout to people earning £1 million a year.

Of particular interest to people in my constituency and the other constituencies in north Wales is the issue of public sector workers, who are another group vilified by the Conservatives. There are huge numbers of public sector workers in certain constituencies in north Wales. The number of people who reside in my constituency, the Vale of Clwyd, and work in the public sector is 10,200—35% of the work force. In Ynys Môn, the figure is 10,100; in Clwyd West, where the Secretary of State for Wales resides, the figure is 9,000. Those public sector workers are not only vilified by the Conservatives but have had their wages frozen until 2015-16. There is no help to rebalance the economies that have been reliant on public sector jobs; there is no specific help or guidance from the UK Government for those constituencies.

Who are the losers from the drop in living standards? It is the young long-term unemployed. There are more than a million of them in the country. In an 18-month period from early 2009 to 2010, in my home town of Rhyl in my constituency we put 450 young people back to work through the future jobs fund, under a Labour Government. That scheme was abolished almost as soon as the Conservative Government entered office.

Children are big sufferers from the drop in living standards. An excellent Daily Post article from 18 July calculates that 24,400 children in north Wales are living in poverty and that the state will pay an extra £265 million a year in additional school costs, benefits and NHS costs. We are even seeing the disease of rickets creep back into the UK, for the first time since the 1950s. I have tabled questions about this—[Interruption.] I see the Minister huffing and puffing.

The disabled have also suffered because of a drop in living standards. This group has been vilified, as well. Disability is the only one of the five or six hate crime categories, which include sexual orientation, religion and ethnic origin, that has increased in the past year. The elderly are the other group to have suffered because of the drop in living standards. They are on fixed incomes. When their fuel bills increase by 8% or 7%, they have no way of paying them, except by cutting back on food or other necessities.

In north Wales, 8,178 people will suffer because of the bedroom tax, but there are not 8,178 single-person units in the whole of north Wales to look after them.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

Last week I heard about a case of a man, in a couple, who was disabled and on whom the council spent a small fortune creating a wet room downstairs. This couple is to be moved to a one-bedroom place. The council will, no doubt, have to spend money converting that and ripping out the stuff from the previous place. It makes no sense.

[Chris Ruane]

It does not make social sense or economic sense. The state will be paying £60 a week rent for many people living in council houses. If such people are moved into houses of multiple occupation in my constituency, the state will be paying £85 a week. The conditions in HMOs are far worse than on council estates.

Some 420,000 households in Wales are living in fuel poverty, 84,000 of them in north Wales alone. Household fuel bills have increased by £300 since the Government have been in power. Those who suffer most are on pre-payment meters. I was brought up in a household with pre-payment meters; we put a pound in the “leccy” if the lights went out. Those people will be paying an extra £50 a year, because they are not on direct debit. Every which way, the poorest are hit the most.

Fuel bills went up by 7% last year. In this current season, the first energy company out of the blocks is going to increase its prices by 8%, at the same time as chief executive officers in energy companies are having golden handshakes of £15 million or £13.5 million.

Under Labour’s home energy efficiency scheme, the energy efficiency of 127,000 households in Wales was improved, cutting down people’s bills and their carbon footprint. The great green hope from the parties in Government was the green deal, What a failure that has been! At the top of the green deal figures for the whole of Wales is Alyn and Deeside, where 19 households have been checked; at number two is Delyn, with 16 households; third is Wrexham, with 13; and at number four is Clwyd West, with 13. In the Prime Minister’s constituency of Witney, six households were assessed for the green deal. This policy was going to rescue those living in fuel poverty, but it has done nothing for them.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will remember that the Arbed scheme—the insulation scheme that he mentioned—was part of a programme from the “One Wales” Government and was the responsibility of, and was launched by, Jocelyn Davies, the then Housing Minister. Does the hon. Gentleman share my disappointment that Labour’s energy price freeze does not extend to coal, liquid petroleum gas and oil? What can he do, in his party, to ensure that it does extend to those?

[Chris Ruane]

Fuel poverty is being looked at. It is on the political agenda because our Labour leader put it there during conference season. Labour is dictating the agenda on living standards. That aspect should be looked into.

I shall now talk about those in work. When Labour came into power, the proudest political moment in my 16 years in Parliament was the night, the day and the day after we introduced the minimum wage. The Conservatives kept us up for about 28 hours. They hated it and said that it would cost 3 million jobs and be devastating for the economy. It did not cost 3 million jobs; it created another 3 million jobs. Their prediction was 6 million jobs out. The minimum wage put a floor in for those who are paid poor wages.

The issue today is zero-hours contracts. I have tabled some 50 questions about those.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. When talking about living standards in areas such as north Wales, the cost of travel, particularly in rural areas, should be considered in addition to food inflation and energy prices. The Government are considering areas in Wales that may benefit from a discount, but does my hon. Friend agree that hard-working families are suffering because of the great distances that they have to travel, to work and to take their children to leisure facilities?

[Chris Ruane]

Absolutely. That is a particular problem in rural areas. I represent the Vale of Clwyd, a rural seat. This is just one of many ways in which ordinary working families are being hit by the parties in government.

Earlier today, I attended the zero-hours contracts debate in the main Chamber. Statistics are scarce. The Office for National Statistics claims that 240,000 people are on zero-hours contracts, but some trade unions reckon that 5 million people are on them. Either way, those are huge numbers and they are having a devastating effect. It is costly to the state, because if companies do not pay the going rate for the job, the state has to step in and subsidise that; it is also a cost to taxpayers.

The issue is also costly for individuals, because they cannot plan their future. They cannot get a mortgage on a zero-hours contract, cannot save up and get Christmas presents and cannot plan for holidays. The working week, including taking children to and from school, cannot be planned for properly. These contracts have an impact on people’s well-being and mental health.

The issue is costly for the companies implementing the contracts, because they will not get loyalty, good will and commitment from a work force on zero-hours contracts—they are pinging and ponging back and forth to work and can be sacked at a moment’s notice. It is also costly for companies paying a proper wage, because they are undercut by those who use zero-hours contracts. Overall, it is a costly business. The Labour party in opposition has shone the light on these dark practices and got the political ball moving.

To combat the drop in living standards, we need a living wage. I congratulate Councillor Joan Butterfield, leader of the Labour group in Denbighshire, who is pushing for that. The local churches in my constituency—Catholic and other churches—led by Father Charles Ramsay, my parish priest, are also pushing for a living wage.

Living standards are crucial. Labour had a good record on that in government and looked after the poorest of the poor, with, for example, Bookstart, child care credits, nurseries for everybody, Sure Start, the education maintenance allowance, child trust funds and the future jobs fund. We dropped VAT from 20% to 15%. All that helped people’s living standards.

Let us look at what has happened to child poverty under the Conservative-Liberal Government. The latest figures on child poverty, on which there is a two-year delay, show that the trough peaked under Labour and that child poverty will rise again under the Conservatives. The Prime Minister is for ever vilifying the Welsh Government and saying, “Look at Labour in practice, look at their bad practice here and their bad practice there.” Let me give MPs a taste of what the Labour Government are doing in practice in Wales.

In England, the education maintenance allowance was scrapped—the allowance was an opportunity to keep 16 to 18-year-olds in school so that they could get their A-levels, go on to college and get a good job. In Wales, it was not scrapped. In England, tuition fees went from £3,000 to £9,000; in Wales, they were capped at £3,500. In England, there were cuts to council tax benefits; in Wales, the Welsh Government allocated £22 million to stop those cuts.

Last week, £17 million was announced by Alun Davies, a Minister in Wales, to combat fuel poverty over a two-year period, which is equivalent to a UK Government allocating £1.5 billion to address fuel poverty. The Welsh Government are doing an excellent job of helping to buffer the Conservative-Liberal coalition’s negative effects on living standards.

The Conservative party has tried to get rid of its nasty reputation. The Home Secretary described the party as the “nasty party,” and the Conservative leader went to the Arctic to hug a husky and to Manchester to hug a hoodie. As has been said today, instead of hugging a husky he is now gassing the badgers. The mask has slipped: Flashman is back in charge.

In the 1980s, the Conservatives atomised, alienated and broke up society. They were out for 13 years, and now they are back to their old tricks—look at the language being used. The Education Secretary says that people are not able to manage their own finances. The Conservatives have the wrong priority in giving money to millionaires. They are allowing £15 million golden handshakes to chief executive officers of energy companies. They are reintroducing soup kitchens. We have beggars in the street for the first time ever in Prestatyn. The number of homeless people in Rhyl has doubled, and we will see people from the inner cities of England driven out to the UK’s coastal towns, including in Wales.

All that does not bode well for the future, and I am pleased that my Labour party and my Labour leader have put living standards at the heart of political debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

Forgive me, but I will not give way because I have not been left with much time.

This afternoon we have heard Opposition Members talking down north Wales and the Welsh economy and not recognising many of the great things that are happening in their own constituencies that we should be celebrating and promoting.

The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd, for whom I have a huge amount of time and respect, finished his contribution with a rather crude political attack on my party and my Government. Of course, it was his party that said it was “intensely relaxed” about people becoming filthy rich. His party was intensely relaxed about abolishing the 10p tax band, which hurt the lowest-paid workers the most. His party was intensely relaxed about soaring petrol prices and soaring council tax. The Government are not relaxed about such things, which is why we are doing everything that we can as the economic recovery gathers pace to ensure that people on the lowest incomes are the ones who benefit and are given incentives to move into work and be at the front and centre of maximising opportunities from the economic recovery.

It is a pleasure and a privilege to be a Minister in the Wales Office, and I have the opportunity to go around all parts of the Principality. I see many of the exciting things that are currently happening in the Welsh private sector, and I have to tell Opposition Members that much of that is happening in north Wales; it is happening in their own constituencies. Unemployment is falling in most north Wales constituencies. Unemployment is not falling everywhere, and we are not complacent about that. We want unemployment to fall in every parliamentary constituency, but the hon. Gentleman cannot stand there and say what he said without recognising that unemployment in his constituency is lower today than when his party left office. I remind him that, under the previous Labour Government, in the five years between 2005 and 2010, unemployment increased in his constituency by more than 100%.

[Chris Ruane]

The top-line unemployment statistics look okay, but the number of people on jobseeker’s allowance for 12 months or more was 215 in 2010, and it was 516 in 2012. The underlying trend is that the number of people who are long-term unemployed, who are the most difficult people to get back to work, is going massively upwards and there is no room for complacency.

[Stephen Crabb]

I am the last person to be complacent. I recognise that a huge amount of work still needs to be done, but the latest figures today confirm that the overall employment picture in Wales is positive. Unemployment is falling across Wales. Overall employment levels are increasing, which we should welcome and want to see more of.

At the start of the hon. Gentleman’s speech, he talked about the decline in real wages between 2007 and 2012 in Denbighshire and Flintshire. We can go through the figures later if he wants more detail, but the vast majority of the decline in real wages happened in the last three years of the previous Labour Government, when, as a result of the economic trauma that they visited upon this country, there was an enormous destruction of wealth and real wages fell. We are now seeing a recovery in wages, including in Wales, but there is a long way still to go before we are back to previous levels.

On income tax, I recognise that many families are facing difficult financial circumstances. That is why we are putting cash back into those families’ pockets by taking the lowest-paid workers out of income tax altogether. We have now cut income tax for more than 1.1 million working people in Wales by increasing the tax-free personal allowance. We are lifting 130,000 of the lowest-paid workers in Wales out of income tax altogether by increasing that allowance to £10,000. Some 324,000 taxpayers in north Wales will benefit from that increase in the personal allowance.

Employers in north Wales are also benefiting from the fact that we are implementing in full all the recommendations of the independent Low Pay Commission. The hon. Gentleman talked about Conservative opposition to the minimum wage, but I for one never opposed the minimum wage, which has benefited the lowest-paid workers. This year, we are able not only to implement all the Low Pay Commission’s recommendations but to go further: the commission recommended freezing the apprentice rate, but we are not freezing it; we are increasing it, and we can do so because we have taken difficult decisions to restore discipline and order to our national finances and to put our house in order, which has given us the capacity and the resources to do things such as increase minimum wages.

One thing that we are committed to freezing, however, is fuel duty, and we have now seen fuel duty frozen for nearly three and a half years. This year, the average motorist will save £7 each time they fill up their fuel tank. I remind Opposition Members that, had Labour been elected in 2010 and implemented its detailed financial plans in full, as it had intended, the price of petrol would be 13p a litre higher than today. That is an example of the Government putting cash back into the pockets of hard-working people and hard-working families. Again, we can do that only because we were able and willing, and had the strength of purpose, to take difficult decisions at the start of this Parliament to put our national finances in order and to restore some sanity to national budgeting.

Oral Answers to Questions

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I strongly agree with what my fellow north-west MP has said. I think that investment in infrastructure is important, whether it is investment in superfast broadband for rural areas in Lancashire, investment in the northern rail hub—which, although it was campaigned for by parties on all sides in the north of England for years under the last Government, did not happen then, but is happening under this Government —or, indeed, investment in High Speed 2, which will help to change the economic geography of the country, and will ensure that all parts of it benefit from the economic recovery. I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend: those things need to go ahead.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

T10. What assessment has the Chancellor made of the impact of zero-hours contracts on the health and well-being of British workers, and also on the consumer confidence of the hundreds of thousands of workers who are on such contracts?

[Mr Osborne]

The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is investigating zero-hours contracts. It is seeking to establish whether there is abuse, and, if there is abuse, what we should do about it.

The Labour party seems to have suddenly discovered this issue. I do not remember a single Minister ever raising it when Labour were in government. Moreover, a number of Labour councils use zero-hours contracts.

Spending Review

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

This Government have taken unprecedented steps to achieve that expenditure control. Now we need to find £11.5 billion of further savings. I want to pay a personal tribute to my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for the huge effort that he has put into delivering them. Finding savings on that scale has not been easy. These are difficult decisions that will affect people in our country, but there never was an easy way to bring spending under control. Reform, growth and fairness are the principles. Let me take each in turn.

I will start with reform and the obligation that we all have in this House to ensure that we get more for every pound of taxpayers’ money that we spend. With the help of my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office, we have been combing through Whitehall, driving out costs, renegotiating contracts and reducing the size of government. Cutting money that the previous Government were spending on marketing and consultants, reforming Government IT and negotiating harder on behalf of the taxpayer have already saved almost £5 billion. In this spending round, we will find a further £5 billion of efficiency savings. That is nearly half of the total savings we need to achieve.

We are reforming pay in the public sector. We are holding down pay awards, and public sector pay rises will be limited to an average of up to 1% for 2015-16. However, the biggest reform that we will make on pay is to automatic progression pay. That is the practice whereby many employees not only get a pay rise every year, but automatically move up a pay grade every single year, regardless of performance. Some public sector employees see annual pay rises of 7%. Progression pay can at best be described as antiquated; at worst, it is deeply unfair to other parts of the public sector that do not get it and to the private sector that has to pay for it. So we will end automatic progression pay in the civil service by 2015-16, and we are working to remove automatic pay rises simply for time served in our schools, NHS, prisons and police. The armed forces will be excluded from those reforms.

Keeping pay awards down and ending automatic progression pay means that, for every pound we have to save in central administration, we can better limit job losses. I do not want to disguise from the House the fact that there will be further reductions in the number of people working in the public sector. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that the total number of people working for the Government will fall by a further 144,000 by 2015-16. I know that for those who are affected that is difficult. That is the consequence of the country spending far beyond its means.

When I presented the spending round three years ago, I said that about half a million posts in the public sector were forecast to have to go. That is indeed what has happened, and we are saving £2 billion a year, with a civil service now smaller than at any time since the war. I also said three years ago that I was confident that job creation in the private sector would more than make up for the losses. That prediction created more controversy than almost anything else at the time, including with the Opposition. The shadow Chancellor called it “a complete fantasy”. Instead, every job lost in the public sector has been offset by three new jobs in the private sector. In the last year, five new jobs have been created for every job cut in the public sector. The central argument of those who fought against our plan is completely demolished by the ingenuity, enterprise and ambition of Britain’s businesses. I pay tribute to the hard-working people of this country who proved their pessimism wrong.

In this spending round, the Treasury will, as one would expect, lead by example. In 2015-16, our resource budget will be reduced by 10%. The Cabinet Office will also see its resource budget reduced by 10%. However, within that we will continue to fund support for social action, including the National Citizen Service. Ninety thousand places will be available for young adults in the citizen service next year, rising to 150,000 by 2016. It is a fantastic programme that teaches young people about their responsibilities as well as their rights, and we are expanding it.

Local government will have to make further savings too. My right hon. Friend the Communities and Local Government Secretary has set an example to all his colleagues by reducing the size of his Department by 60% and abolishing 12 quangos. He is a model of lean government, and has agreed to a further 10% saving in his resource budget. But we are committing to more than £3 billion capital investment in affordable housing and we will extend the troubled families programme to reach 400,000 more vulnerable families who need extra support. We are proving that it is possible to save money and create more progressive government. That is the right priority.

Here is another of the Government’s priorities: helping families with the cost of living. Because we know that times are tough, we have helped to keep mortgage rates low, increased the personal allowance, cut fuel duty and frozen council tax. That council tax freeze is due to come to an end next April. I do not want that to happen, so I can tell the House today that because of the savings we have made we can help families with their bills. We will fund councils to freeze council tax for the next two years. That is nearly £100 off the average council tax bill for families, and brings savings on these bills for families to £600 over this Parliament. That demonstrates our commitment to all those who want to work hard and get on.

There is one more thing that we can do to help with the cost of living in one part of the country. For years, Members from the south-west of England have fought on behalf of their constituents who face exceptionally high water bills. Nothing was done until we came to office. Now we have cut those water bills by £50 per household every year until 2015. My hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) and many others have campaigned to extend that rebate beyond 2015. I am happy to confirm today that we will do that. Taking money out of the cost of government and putting it in the pockets of families—that is what we mean by reform.

Local government has already taken difficult decisions to reduce staff numbers, share services and make savings. I pay tribute to Sir Merrick Cockell for all he has done in showing how this can be achieved. We were told by the scaremongers that savings in local government would decimate local services. Instead, public satisfaction with local council services has gone up under this Government. That is because, with our reforms, communities have more control over their own destiny. That is because we have devolved power and responsibility to manage budgets locally. That is because we have let councils benefit from the tax receipts that come when the local economy grows. Today, we give more freedom, including greater flexibility over assets, and we will drive greater integration of local emergency services. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) for his fresh thinking in this area, which has helped to inform us.

We are also embarking on major reforms to the way we spend money locally through the creation of the single local growth fund that Lord Heseltine proposed. This will be £2 billion per year, which is at least £10 billion over the next Parliament. Local enterprise partnerships can bid for that sum, and the details will be set out tomorrow. Our philosophy is simple: trust people to make their own decisions and they will usually make better decisions. But in return for those freedoms, we have to ask local government for the kind of sacrifices central Government are making. The local government resource budget will be reduced by 10% in 2015-16, but when all the changes affecting local government that I will set out are taken into account, including local income and other central Government funding, local government spending reduces by approximately 2%.

I set out today the block grants to the devolved Administrations. Because we have prioritised health and schools in England, this feeds through the Barnett formula to require resource savings of about 2% in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The Scottish resource budget will be set at £25.7 billion, and Scotland will benefit from new capital borrowing powers of almost £300 million. Being part of the UK means that Scotland will see its capital spending power increase by almost 13% in real terms in 2015-16. It is rightly for the Scottish Parliament to decide how best to use it. That is devolution within a United Kingdom delivering for Scotland.

The Welsh resource budget will be £13.6 billion, and we will shortly publish our response to the Silk commission on further devolution of taxation and borrowing. When we do so, we will be able to say more about the impressive plans to improve the M4 in south Wales that my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) and others have been campaigning for. The Northern Ireland resource budget will be £9.6 billion. We have agreed to provide an additional £31 million in 2015 to help the Police Service of Northern Ireland tackle the threat posed by terrorism. Those police officers do an incredibly brave job on our behalf, and we salute them. Separately, we will make 10% savings to the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Offices.

We believe that the cultural heritage of our nations is not just an economic asset, but has intrinsic value. When times are tough, they too must make a contribution to the savings this country requires. The Department for Culture Media and Sport will make savings of 7% in its resource budget. Elite sports will be protected and the funding of community sports, arts and museums will be reduced by just 5%, but because we recognise the value of our greatest museums, galleries and English Heritage, we are giving them much greater freedom from state control, which they have long called for, applying our reforming principles across the board and empowering those on the front line who know best—what the director of the British Museum called:

“good news in a tough economic climate”.

And while we are at it, we will make sure that the site of the battle of Waterloo is restored in time for the 200th anniversary to commemorate those who died there and to celebrate a great victory of coalition forces over a discredited former regime that impoverished millions.

We still have the finest armed forces in the world, and we intend to keep it that way. The first line of national defence is sound public finances and a balanced defence budget, and my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary is helping to deliver both. He and his predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), have filled the £38 billion black hole they inherited in the finances of the Ministry of Defence. We will continue to ensure we get maximum value for money from what will remain, which, at over 2% of our GDP, is one of the largest defence budgets in the world. The defence resource budget will be maintained in cash terms at £24 billion, while the equipment budget will be £14 billion and will grow by 1% in real terms thereafter. We will further reduce the civilian work force and their allowances; renegotiate more of the hopeless private finance initiative contracts signed in the last decade; and overhaul the way we buy equipment.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has rightly been clear throughout, however, that he is not prepared to see a reduction in Britain’s military capabilities. This spending round not only protects those capabilities, but enhances them with the latest technologies. We will not cut the number of soldiers, sailors or airmen—we need them to defend our country—and we will give them the best kit to do that job: new aircraft carriers, submarines, stealth fighters, destroyers and state-of-the art armoured vehicles. We also make a major commitment to invest in cyber. It is the new frontier of defence and a priority for the Government.

We will look after families who have lost their loved ones and those injured protecting us long after the wars they fought in are over. We previously committed to fund the military covenant for five years, and today I commit to funding the armed forces covenant permanently. We will do that with the money we have collected from the LIBOR fines, so those who represented the very worst values will support those who represent the very best of British values. Our veterans will not be forgotten.

The intelligence services are on the front line too. Silently, and often heroically, these fellow citizens protect us and our way of life, and so we will protect them in return, with a 3.4% increase in their combined resource budget. The Foreign Office is the public face of our diplomacy, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) is quite simply the best Foreign Secretary we have had in a generation. He, too, has demonstrated how we can make our taxpayer pound go further. While making savings in his budget, he has managed to expand our network of embassies in the emerging world and focus his diplomats on British commercial interests. There will be further savings in that budget of 8% in 2015, but he is still committing to strengthen our embassy network in high-growth markets, from Shanghai to Abuja.

The Foreign Office projects our values abroad, and the Home Office protects our values here in Britain.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Is she the best Home Secretary for a generation?

[Mr Osborne]

Police reform is a model of what we can achieve across Government. Police forces are more accountable to the public, with modern working practices, the latest equipment and democratic oversight, and all that on a smaller—

Beer Duty Escalator

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this debate. It is a pleasure to be tail-end Charlie, and to follow the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson).

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

You’re not tail-end Charlie!

[Richard Drax]

In that case, I am probably the gunner instead.

It is a great sadness to me that a great friend of mine, David Woodhouse, who was the boss of a brewery in Dorset, has died before the beer duty escalator was removed, as I hope and believe that it will be. Aged 49, he died prematurely of a heart attack. This tax was one of his main concerns, fears and worries, because, sadly, every time it went up, he had to lay people off.

The beer duty escalator provides the perfect illustration of the law of diminishing returns: the higher the duty, the lower the volume of beer sold. Yet despite the evidence, brewing has been cruelly lumbered with a 2% above-inflation increase every year since 2008. That means a 27% increase in beer tax in the life of this Parliament alone. Beer taxation now costs the average pub about £66,000 per year, with 35p in every pound taken over the bar being passed on in taxes, most of them duty, and while beer prices have risen, sales have fallen sharply by 23%. Over 6,000 pubs, or thereabouts, have closed, and a pint of beer is, sadly, fast becoming an unaffordable luxury. In fact, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts very limited additional revenue from beer tax in the next two years, and the wider costs—the loss of jobs and reduced VAT and corporation tax payments—have not been accounted for.

In my constituency, more than 2,000 people are employed in the brewing and pub trade. They form a small but vital part of the quarter of a million people who work in the sector in rural constituencies. The Dorset brewery that I mentioned, Hall and Woodhouse, has just invested £5 million in a new brewery, which will safeguard more precious jobs. Its reward? Yet more duty on a pint of beer. In the struggle for growth, how can it make sense to strangle this vital part of the UK economy?

Pubs have historically been a focal point for a community—a place to meet, eat, drink and socialise. Our naturally brewed ales are world renowned, and pubs are high on every tourist guide’s must-see list. Smaller, tenanted pubs, in particular, are suffering, and each new rise in duty is nothing less than a kick in the teeth. We are penalising one of Britain’s oldest and most cherished industries. This is not a recipe for growth—something that this Government have banged on about day after day—nor is it fair. As we have heard, UK consumers now pay 40% of the total EU beer tax bill, yet we consume only 13% of the beer. I could argue that perhaps the EU officials are guzzling too much, but that would be facetious. We are driving people out of pubs, where, in the main, law-abiding citizens consume a low-alcohol drink in a controlled environment.

I see that my time is running out because, being the gunner, we are now down to four minutes. I shall therefore end by making this appeal to the Minister: on behalf of the breweries and all those in the business, not least in my constituency, and my friend David Woodhouse, who has sadly passed away, please get rid of this dreadful tax.

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[Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Chris Ruane]

Are you the penultimate?

[Graham Evans]

Was that a penultimate, or just a Charlie?

I must confess that I have stopped many barrels of beer going sour over the years. Indeed, I met Mrs Evans in my local pub, The Church House inn in Bollington near Macclesfield, when I was a wee slip of a lad—I was 20-something—serving behind the bar. My mother worked in a pub, by brother and sisters worked in a pub and my father spent most of his time in a pub, so it is fair to say that I grew up in pubs.

Many hon. and right hon. Members have mentioned socialising and communities during this excellent debate, which was ably secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths). As has been said, pubs are often at the heart of the community. They are not just watering holes, but the glue that binds the fabric of local society. The decline in the number of pubs across Britain is, rightly, a source of concern for us all, so I welcome the steps that the Government have already taken to halt that decline. The right to buy has given many local communities the agency to control their own environment, and I sincerely hope that the rate at which pubs are closing continues to drop, as it has done in the past two years.

We are here to discuss the economic value of the beer and pub industry. It has contributed £21 billion to the national economy this year, with some 60% of that coming from beer sales alone. It is understandable that groups such as the Campaign for Real Ale believe that the impact of the beer duty escalator will result in reduced beer sales and a reduction in profit for our hard-working publicans.

We are all aware that society’s relationship with alcohol has changed. With less money in people’s pockets, the appeal of cut-price booze from supermarkets is clear. Many hon. Members have touched on the social and health implications of that change in drinking habits. I welcome the Government’s commitment to a minimum unit price, which will encourage responsible drinking and, I sincerely hope, realistically allow pubs to compete with supermarkets.

It is also worth considering that the previous Government increased beer duty by 60% while spirits duty increased by a mere quarter. Unit for unit, spirits are becoming cheaper and cheaper, and their increased consumption makes it much harder to encourage responsible drinking.

Of course, we are in a difficult economic position. Alcohol excise duty makes an important contribution to reducing our inherited deficit, but it is clear that the escalator is of concern to publicans, constituents and hon. Members. I therefore urge the Minister to carefully consider the duty’s impact on the profitability of pubs, responsible drinking and the future of local communities before making recommendations for the 2013 Budget.

Finance Bill

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

If it is such a sensible, logical and scientifically researched conclusion that reducing the tax rate from 50% to 45% is such a good thing, why do the great British public not believe it?

[Mr Gauke]

I do not know whether the great British public have reached that conclusion. Perhaps some of them believe some of the arguments put by the Labour party, but if they do I have to point out some of the weaknesses. In the Committee of the whole House, the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), who previously spoke for the Opposition on this issue, said that he considered the taxable income elasticity calculations in the report to be “smoke and mirrors”. We would call them analysis and economics.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The people who have contacted me on this issue are not natural Labour supporters, but business entrepreneurs. The Government have said on numerous occasions that they want to encourage aspiration and to help entrepreneurs and those who want to take risks in business. Those are the very people who will be damaged by this proposal.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem relates not only to static caravans, but to mobile caravans? A company called Fifth Wheel in my constituency has just invested £1 million in the manufacture of mobile caravans. It has won 10 awards from the Caravan Club of Great Britain in the past 10 years and two awards from the Daily Post. Its legs have been knocked from underneath it by a tax that has been foisted on it without any consultation.

[Albert Owen]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. I am referring specifically to static caravans, but he is right to say that this important industry includes mobile caravans.

A business that employs many hundreds of people across the United Kingdom, including in my constituency, wrote to me to say that 60% of its turnover comes from the sale of caravans. The proposal will be a huge knock to such companies.

Because of the time, I shall keep my remarks brief, but I want to raise one issue that has also been referred to by the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George). It will predominantly be the young people who work in this industry who will lose their jobs as a consequence of the proposal. Young people face many pressures in rural areas, especially in finding work and finding a home. Many people get a mobile home in such areas because they aspire to have a second home. They then rent it out to other people when they are not using it, which contributes to the local economy. However, in deprived areas where property prices are low, those people may transfer—because they want to come to beautiful places such as the Isle of Anglesey—

Rural Bank Closures

Chris Ruane Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Roger Williams]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, but the responsibility lies with all the banks. They have got to come together a find a way of addressing the problem.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Should the Government be looking at closures over the past 10 years, and at which banks have closed branches and which have not? They could then force banks to get together and create a common policy for bank closure programmes in rural areas. Each bank would take part of the burden so that it would not be left to just one bank.

[Roger Williams]

There is a theme running through the interventions that I have taken so far. The problem is a responsibility for all the major banks, rather than for a specific bank in a particular town or community, or even in Harrow. Banks should come together and solve the problem.

Presteigne is not only a sleepy country town; it contains a number of innovative businesses such as Mangar International, which manufactures, designs and supplies rehabilitation and assisted living equipment of a sort not found anywhere else in the world. Teledyne Labtech manufactures microwave circuits, and there are a number of other businesses. We were lucky to have attracted those businesses through the Development Board for Rural Wales, and a number of manufacturing facilities sprang up in Presteigne of which we are proud and wish to hold on to. I cannot, however, see us being able to attract that type of development if there is no bank in Presteigne—it is unlikely that businesses will be attracted to areas where banking is not available.

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[Roger Williams]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but I think that I have made it clear that although I believe that the Government can take a degree of initiative in this field, it is really the responsibility of individual banks or banks as a whole to ensure that they are able to service these vulnerable communities, because they owe a debt of loyalty to them.

[Chris Ruane]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way to me again. I do not have the exact phrase with me, but does he recall the banker who said, 18 months into the recession, that the time for remorse is over? That banker misjudged the mood of the nation then and, indeed, now. Relying purely on the good will of bankers when that is the feeling from them—the time for remorse is over—is not likely to bring about the change that most of us in this Chamber want.

[Roger Williams]

In the long run, it is in the banks’ interest to ensure that they provide a comprehensive level of service to the communities that they wish to serve and services that are more accessible and more convenient. I think that it is probably the role of the Government to sit down with the bankers, as was suggested by the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), and set out what should be required of banks. Not all the banks were bailed out with public money as a result of the banking collapse, but all banks have benefited from Government action—quantitative easing, for instance—and just about all banks are dependent or have depended on measures that the Government have brought forward. It is time to sit down and see what can be achieved to help these communities.

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[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

I want to carry on where the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) left off and talk about the public reputation of banks in the UK—in fact in the whole world. Banks today are not in a good place. Earlier, I mentioned the quote, “The time for remorse is now over”. The banker who said that totally misjudged the mood of the nation. Having been through the expenses scandal, we as MPs recognise this situation. We know that we have to build bridges with the public, and the banks and the media must do the same. Of all three sectors, the banks are showing the least remorse and seem less anxious to make good their reputation with the public. They must look again at the balance between profit and social responsibility. Banks are about profit, but as they make that profit from people and from communities, they bear certain responsibilities, which we have not witnessed their fulfilling since the banking crisis. They have the opportunity to learn their lesson and to make amends with local communities, especially in rural areas. It sticks in people’s guts when they hear about billions of pounds being set aside for bonuses while branches are being closed. Such action does not sit well with the British public. Banks should perhaps take some of those bonuses and reinvest them in rural and poor communities across the UK.

The local presence of a bank in a high street or a village is very important. It is about making a commitment to a community. In the past—I will not go too far back—local bank managers were trusted pillars of the community. They were down at the golf club, picking up the local knowledge. They knew who was a sound investment and who was not, so when they were sat across from someone who wanted money, they were able to give the appropriate advice. That cannot be done by proxy from a city 20 or 30 miles away, or from a town 10 or 15 miles away. Understanding the vibes of an area and keeping a finger on its pulse needs to be done in the community; local knowledge and local presence are very important and lead to sound lending. Banks were also involved in the wider community; they were in the business groups and the town centre forums, using their expertise and knowledge to help local people.

There has been a lot of bank kicking today; I have done it a bit myself, but let me mention some examples of good social responsibility that I have come across over the years. About 10 years ago, I wrote to all the banks in my constituency and said, “What is your corporate responsibility agenda? What do you give back to the community?” I had an excellent response from Barclays’ Wendy O’Raheilly, who was based in Cardiff. She said that she would drive 200 miles there and 200 miles back to tell me about it. She told me that at that time, Barclays was the second biggest corporate donor in the country, donating some £52 million. Sue Jones, Barclays’ local person based in Rhyl, attends every Rhyl in Bloom meeting. She brings 70 Barclays personnel from all over the UK to help out in community initiatives. There are clearly some good banks. HSBC has received a kicking here today, but its local person, James Smith, attends all our town centre forum meetings. I wrote to the HSBC chief executive for the whole of Europe, Brian Robertson, to tell him what a great employee he had. He then got on the phone to James Smith, saying how pleased he was to receive such a letter. Some banks take their social responsibility seriously; other banks need to do more. The Britannia building society is now getting active in my local community in Rhyl.

In the interests of transparency, the banks need to advertise what they are doing. They need to tell us the criteria for closing down rural banks. We need to know what is best practice and how we can push the worst practice upwards towards best practice. Some banks inform MPs of their branch closures. Do they inform the town council, the county council or the community council? How far in advance do they do that? Do they produce the criteria for closures so that communities can argue against them, or is it all done and dusted before the dialogue is started?

My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) made the excellent suggestion of holding a summit with the banks. I hope that the Minister and the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins), will hold such a summit and invite rural MPs from across the House. Actually, why keep it to rural MPs? Perhaps all MPs who are experienced in bank closures should be invited.

We need historical perspective: how many branches have been closed by each bank; what percentage are they of the total number and were those branches in rural, urban or poor communities? That will give us a picture and allow us to say to a bank, “Yes, we can hold you up as best example and you, as worst example.” We need a ranking of banks. Which are the banks that have social responsibility and which are the ones that do not? I am not sure whether there is an all-party parliamentary group on banking. If there is, I have been inspired to join it after today’s debate. Perhaps it would have a role to play. Perhaps we should be tabling parliamentary questions on the matter. Are such closures being recorded by Government? Part of this Government want a hands-off approach towards the private sector because they want to let it get on with its business, but these are big issues affecting our communities. Access to finance can help decide whether communities in rural or poor areas flourish or die. I fully back that idea of a summit, and hope that it is taken up by the Minister, the shadow Minister, the all-party parliamentary group and MPs.

What can be done with these closures? We can look at what the Labour Government did with the post offices; we had to close them in some rural communities and it was a painful process. Can the private sector learn from the public sector? In our closure programme, we looked at where a post office was and where the next one was. We studied the radius around the post office under threat. Everything was done mathematically and systematically. Should the banking sector get together and co-operate? They could cut their costs if they said, “We won’t close a bank here if you don’t close a bank there.” Is there synergy to be had among the banks in the banking sector? Is there enough co-operation? I understand that it is difficult because they are all after the same pot; they are all after profit. If they have social responsibility, they should consider more co-operation.

Mobile banks have been mentioned today. We discussed and implemented such a strategy when we closed the post offices. We had post office mobile vans going around the country. Could there be any co-operation between the post office mobile vans and mobile banks? Such a scheme will cost money, but it might be a sound investment for the banks, not only economically but socially, because their reputation would improve.

Is there room and opportunity for the banks to co-operate with the credit unions, which have already been mentioned in this debate? If banks are pulling out of an area, could they co-operate with credit unions—again, giving them a bit of a subsidy—to move into the areas that they are moving out of? Is more co-operation possible with static post offices, rather than just with mobile post offices? Money is being collected and deposited in those post offices. Are there any synergies between the banks and the post office network?

There have been a lot of good suggestions today from Members of all parties; I think that the debate has been consensual and further progress can be made; and I thank the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) for securing this debate, which has been well attended. Indeed, the hon. Gentleman took lots of interventions; he was very generous in doing so, especially with me. And some good has come of the debate.

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[Chris Ruane]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, especially as I had babbled on for 10 minutes before him. Regarding the loss of those facilities—the pubs, schools, post offices, banks and petrol stations—within rural communities, does he think that there is an onus on those communities to accept more housing and not to lump all future housing developments in urban areas? I represent an urban area and a rural area, and as we look at housing development over the next 10 years, the feeling is that all the houses should go to the urban areas to preserve our rural areas. But each community should expect to have a 10% increase in housing, with social housing, so that there is mixed tenureship, and family housing, so that communities can keep the schools, pubs and post offices open, because people are living in them.

[Simon Hart]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me to engage in a debate about affordable housing and rural areas, and I am not sure that the Chairman would forgive us if we were to do so this late in the day. Perhaps we can have that conversation over a cup of tea after the debate, if he does not mind my putting it that way.

In an earlier intervention, I mentioned the irritation that I experience at being charged exorbitant sums to take my own money out of certain cash machines, but there is another element to the availability of cash that I did not refer to: cash-in as opposed to cash-out. The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) may have mentioned this point already, but rural areas survive—survive a lot, in the case of my constituency of Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire—on tourism-related events and tourism-related industries, which often involve people who carry substantial amounts of cash. When there is a fundraising event in a local area, or indeed a busy weekend in general, the need to get any cash that is made into somewhere that is reasonably safe reasonably quickly goes to the heart of the social responsibility that the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) referred to. We must bear in mind that there is a proper need—not just a desire to be treated differently—to get that money into places where it is safe, as soon as it is possible to do so.

On the topic of a summit, as yet no one has mentioned the requirement for banks in the rural areas that we are talking about to address—again and again—lending. We all know, and indeed we have heard today, that there are very responsible staff and managers of local banks, but they have their hands, feet and everything else bound by central office lending guidelines. To me, it is one thing to debate the availability of banks on the high street for our rural communities, but let us also get those banks lending. I suspect that the guidelines for such lending no longer lie with the bank manager in Narberth, Whitland, St Clears or wherever it might be. I have here an e-mail from NatWest that is about the closure of the NatWest branch at Whitland in my area, but it comes kindly from the Royal Bank of Scotland at 280 Bishopsgate, which I suspect is where most of the decisions are made with regard to rural banking. Therefore, I say to the Minister that if we are to have a banking summit, let us also deal with lending to some of the small and medium-sized enterprises in rural areas.

I also want to talk about high street prosperity. We had a debate in the main Chamber the other day about the Portas report, the Government’s warm recognition of its recommendations and how we can regenerate one or two of our ailing high streets as a consequence of the advice that the Government has received from Mary Portas. Of course, within all that discussion, there is a need for a vibrant high street banking facility. Such a facility is one of the vital pieces of the economic jigsaw in our rural market towns, and no jigsaw works if a vital piece is missing. So we cannot accept the Portas report and then say, “But not banking.” We have to accept high street banking as part of that package, and as I have already said, I hope that—as part of the proposed banking summit or even perhaps as part of the Minister’s summing-up of this debate—reference can be made to that issue.

Sharing facilities was mentioned earlier by hon. Members from all parties, and it is an extremely helpful development. Mobile facilities have worked in one or two rural areas, as far as post offices are concerned. Having referred to the e-mail that I received from NatWest, I must say that NatWest has been helpful in our area by

“working closely with the Post Office to make changes to its IT systems to enable customers to use the Post Office branch network”,

as its e-mail sets out. That is a positive development in terms of shared working, which I commend NatWest bank for making.

Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) made the point about a possible investigation into rural bank closures by the Office of Fair Trading. It would be helpful if the Minister leaned in the direction of working with the Welsh Assembly Government—or the Welsh Government, as they now like to be called—with regard to making a proper team effort to address the impositions put upon rural communities as a consequence not only of bank closures but other closures of facilities. Rural communities do not want special treatment, but they want to be able to function on equal terms with the rest of the UK.

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[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)]

I hope you will excuse my slightly unorthodox speaking style, Mr Brady, due to a broken foot. I thank the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and his colleagues, who are now giggling in the back row. I also thank the other Members who have contributed to this important debate. It follows the interesting and useful debate secured last year by the hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire, to which my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary responded. He is in Committee today, considering the Financial Services Bill. I am sure that he will read today’s Hansard with deep interest and mull over the calls for a summit and the suggestions about with whom he should work if he is minded to hold one. I recognise the concerns expressed capably by all hon. Members about the impact of past and planned branch closures by high street banks in their constituencies and about the availability of banking services in rural areas more generally.

[Chris Ruane]

On the issue of a banking summit, will the Minister consider calling it herself, in co-operation with the shadow Minister, or is it something that she will leave to Back Benchers?

[Miss Smith]

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that I shall have to leave that to the consideration of my colleague at the Treasury, whose portfolio it more properly is. However, as I said, I am sure that during a slow moment in Committee upstairs, he will read today’s Hansard and take the hon. Gentleman’s views deeply into account.

The Government recognise that people in rural areas experience much the same financial challenges as people living in towns and cities, even Harrow. However, living in a rural area can bring additional challenges apart from the obvious examples of bank closures. Exclusion from financial services can be less visible in rural areas than in urban areas. My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) and others have highlighted a range of rural challenges. I have some understanding of them myself, having grown up in the fens in rural Norfolk. My first bank account was in a branch in a market town.

With regard to access to bank accounts, the Government are committed to improving access to financial services, as I shall explain, and in particular to bank accounts. It has been amply demonstrated that having a bank account is an essential aspect of modern life and that being able to access counter services at a branch while interacting face to face with staff is a service valued not only by individuals but by businesses. I have also heard the points made today about its tourism value. However, I must point out that decisions whether and where to maintain specific branches are commercial decisions and, as such, for the financial institutions in question. The Government do not intervene in such decisions, as a matter of principle.

All banking service providers must balance customer interests, market competition and other commercial factors when considering their strategy. I note the call by the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) for banks to balance social responsibility with those factors, but I will say at the outset that the Government have been clear about the need for a change in bonus culture and for banks to contribute to the real economy, support small and medium-sized enterprises throughout the UK and lend to families. The bottom line of today’s debate is that banks have customers, and it is clear that they must treat them fairly in taking decisions about them.

With that in mind, I will set out briefly the regulations that apply. Banks’ and building societies’ treatment of their customers is currently governed by the Financial Services Authority in its “Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook”, which includes a general requirement for firms to provide a prompt, efficient and fair service to all their customers. The guidance agreed by the industry and the FSA sets out expectations of how banks should live up to that code of conduct and specific guidelines for how banks should behave when considering closing a branch.

The guidance states that if a firm plans to close or move a branch, customers should be notified at least 12 weeks beforehand and told how the firm will continue to provide retail banking services. That includes providing micro-enterprise customers with information on any existing inter-bank agency agreements. A notice should be placed in the branch, and consideration should be given to other local advertising and notification of local councils and community groups. The bank should provide information on alternative facilities offered by the firm in the locality, including its nearest alternative branch and nearest free ATM, as well as other channels through which banking services are provided.

My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) mentioned free ATMs. I believe that the LINK network, of which, I note, he is perhaps no great fan, runs a phone line that customers can use to propose sites for new free-of-charge cash machines. Perhaps he might encourage his constituents to take that up.

The guidance also requires that customers be notified at least 12 weeks in advance of significant alterations to counter services or opening hours. On the back of those points, first, such arrangements clearly help customers make alternative arrangements to meet their banking needs. Secondly, they enable options to be considered, such as the action plans for which the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) called. Thirdly, to use an example that we heard today, I am pleased that people in Suffolk, Coastal could respond in that way. When people see a notice in branch buildings, some are clearly able to respond. Fourthly, however, that does not change the end fact that a branch may still be withdrawn.

Let us move on and note what banks offer in addition to their face-to-face services. Several Members have made the point today that banks offer services by telephone and by internet. My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire raised the significant issue of broadband, which I am sure is on everyone’s minds. The Government have laid out significant plans to improve and complete broadband for rural areas. I could go into that more, but I suspect that that is a different debate and that you, Mr Brady, will not allow me to speak on it. I reassure Members that the Government understand that point and are acting on it.

It is fair to say that the channels I have talked about are not always appropriate for every customer and every service. As hon. Members have noted, having access to a branch with face-to-face services is particularly important for older people and for small businesses that may require cash facilities to trade. However, the fact is that phone and online channels are increasingly popular, and the provision of such services is expanding and diversifying rapidly, giving customers a range of choices as to how they manage their affairs.

It is important to note that many bank account providers have an arrangement for customers to access their accounts via post office counters, which I am glad that hon. Members have noted throughout today’s debate. I know that Members will welcome the Government’s stance on post offices, notably making clear commitments regarding the future of the network—that there will be no further closure programmes and that we will maintain a network of at least 11,500 branches and ensure that specific access provisions for rural areas are included. I understand that 80% of customers now have the possibility of withdrawing or depositing funds or checking their balance at a post office branch.

Hon. Members raised shared branching, which is where several banking providers pool their services in some way. That is an interesting idea that clearly requires a high degree of commercial collaboration. I return to my point that the best people to judge that are the banks themselves, and I would certainly encourage them to consider that idea and also mobile banking, which was also raised in today’s debate.