National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. Members will be able to see that a significant number of people wish to contribute to this debate. A time limit of six minutes will be imposed after we hear from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Sandher]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. If Opposition parties wish to criticise the tax rise on the largest businesses and the wealthiest individuals, they must set out what services they will cut and who will not get a GP appointment or the teachers that are needed.

We are investing to raise returns. Investing in our schools, NHS and home insulation makes us better educated and healthier and gets energy bills down for all of us. That investment is paid for through tax revenue. The principle behind which we raise that is simple yet powerful: it is about collective contribution for collective benefit, sharing in the rebuilding of our nation and, of course, the rebuilding of hope.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I assure Members that we have now resolved the problem with the clock and that there is a six-minute time limit. I call Stuart Anderson.

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[Graham Stuart]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would never dare to tread on your toes, but perhaps something is wrong with the electronic equipment because the screen says that this is a national insurance debate, rather than some generalised debate. I sympathise, though, with the hon. Gentleman and other Labour Members for not wanting to talk about their own policies—they would rather slag us off.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that that was not really a point of order. I am sure the hon. Member for Rochdale (Paul Waugh) is getting to the point on the Second Reading of the National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill.

[Paul Waugh]

I am, indeed, coming to exactly that point, because this is set in the context of what the Tories left behind. The clear trajectory of their last Budget was to squeeze day-to-day public spending to just 1% above inflation every year until 2029. That carried dire implications for every unprotected Department—up to £20 billion of cuts a year. The Resolution Foundation calculated that that would be the equivalent of three quarters of the cuts of the austerity years—austerity 2.0.

Sadly, there is no evidence that the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott), left her own note for her successor. If she had, it surely would have read, “I’m afraid to tell you there is no money for public services.” If the Conservatives had won the last election, what would that have meant in practice? My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary revealed that when he took office, he was told that the NHS was facing such large deficits it would have to cut 20,000 appointments and operations a week. Thanks in part to the national insurance rises in the Bill, he can now deliver on our manifesto commitment to provide 40,000 extra appointments every week, with our investment in mental health services treating an extra 380,000 patients.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. That is the second time the hon. Gentleman has done it: I have left nothing.

[Paul Waugh]

Forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker. Labour is the party taking tough decisions today and refusing to duck the issues that the Conservatives were so timid to grasp, from planning reform to energy security, from welfare reform to removing tax breaks for the richest.

In the past four weeks, the Conservatives have made £6.7 billion of commitments to cut taxes, but they have not said which public services they would cut to fund them. But the most damning indictment of their low-pay, low-growth, low-investment, low-productivity economics was the model that totally failed. In 1964, the outgoing Tory Chancellor Reggie Maudling bumped into James Callaghan and said,

“Good luck, old cock. Sorry to leave it in such a mess.”

It is a shame that the current Tory party cannot earn up to their own failures with a similar sense of regret or humility.

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[Dr Roz Savage (South Cotswolds) (LD)]

I know that difficult decisions have had to be made, but I have been talking to small business owners. I am particularly thinking of the owner of a chain of convenience stores in Lechlade, and the difficult decision he is having to make of which of his part-time workers he is going to lay off in the run-up to Christmas. Should not the difficult decisions be those of the big tech companies about whether they actually pay their fair share of corporation tax? Should they not be the really tough—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. If the hon. Lady wishes to speak later in the debate, she is very welcome to do so, but interventions have to be short, and we have a lot of people to get in.

[Ms Billington]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I agree that if we are to revive the high street, we will need to make sure that the online giants pay their way, and I look forward to making that argument in the future.

I refer again to the 70-year-old woman I met on the doorstep in East Thanet who was told she had to wait 16 weeks for a potential cancer diagnosis. She also told me that this is impacting on her ability to provide childcare for her family. We sometimes do not appreciate the impact on society and our economy of having an inadequate healthcare system, but it has an enormously wide-ranging impact. Raising national insurance contributions on employers is a difficult choice, but given our economic inheritance and the dire state of our NHS, it is the right one.

Do the Opposition think we should not increase NHS funding by £25.6 billion or that we should not recruit 6,500 new teachers for our schools? If they agree with these investments, how do they suggest we pay for them? There is a choice—stability, investment and reform, or chaos, incompetence and stagnation. I urge the House to support these measures to fund the NHS that the economy desperately needs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ben Obese-Jecty]

You state—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

He!

[Ben Obese-Jecty]

Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member stated that he has spoken to constituents and many small businesses across his constituency, but he quoted the Federation of Small Businesses. Could we hear from businesses that he has spoken to as to how this measure benefits them?

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Caroline Nokes Excerpts

Committee of the whole House & 3rd reading
Tuesday 17th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes in the Chair]

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Caroline Nokes)]

I remind Members that in Committee they should not address the Chair as Madam Deputy Speaker. Please use our names when addressing the Chair. “Madam Chair”, “Chair” and “Madam Chairman” are also acceptable.

Clause 1

Rate of secondary Class 1 contributions

[Pippa Heylings (South Cambridgeshire) (LD)]

I beg to move amendment 1, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) In section 9(1A) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, before paragraph (a) insert—

“(za) if the employer is a specified employer under subsection (1B), the specified employer secondary percentage;”

(A2) After section 9(1A) of that Act insert—

“(1B) A “specified employer” means—

(a) a person providing a care home service or a domiciliary support service who is regulated under—

(i) Part 1 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008,

(ii) Part 1 of the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016, or

(iii) Part 5 of the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010,

(b) a person contracted to provide primary care under the provisions of—

(i) Part 4 of the National Health Service Act 2006,

(ii) Part 4 of the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, or

(iii) sections 17J to 17O of the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978,

(c) a person contracted to provide general dental services under the provisions of Part 2 of the National Health Service (General Dental Services) Regulations 1992,

(d) a person contracted to provide pharmacy services under the provisions of—

(i) Part 7 of the National Health Service Act 2006, or

(ii) Part 8 of the NHS (Pharmaceutical and Local Pharmaceutical Services) Regulations 2013, or

(e) a charitable provider of health and care, or

(f) a person providing hospice care whether in a hospice or elsewhere.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act, the specified employer secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

This amendment, together with Amendment 2 provides that care providers, NHS GP practices, NHS commissioned dentists, NHS commissioned pharmacists, charitable providers of health and care, and those providing hospice care would continue to pay contributions at current rates.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 4, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(A2) In section 9(1A) after paragraph (aa) insert—

“(ab) if section 9AA below applies to the earnings, the reduced secondary percentage;”

(A3) After section 9A insert—

“9AA Qualification for reduced secondary percentage

(1) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this section applies to the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in question, where the earner is employed—

(a) by a charity registered in the charity register or the Scottish charity register,

(b) by a voluntary organisation within the meaning of regulation 2 of the Housing Benefit Regulations 2006,

(c) to work in a GP practice,

(d) by a university, or

(e) by a college of further education.

(2) For the purposes of section 9(1A)(ab) above, the reduced secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

Amendment 7, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(A2) In section 9(1A) before paragraph (a) insert—

“(za) if subsection (1B) below applies, the healthcare and small charities secondary percentage;”

(A3) After section 9(1A) insert—

“(1B) This section applies where the earner is employed to work—

(a) in any of the following settings—

(i) a GP surgery,

(ii) an optometry or dispensing optician practice,

(iii) a dental surgery,

(iv) a pharmacy,

(v) a residential care setting, or

(b) for a registered charity employing 50 people or fewer.

(1C) For the purposes of subsection (1A)(za) the healthcare and small charities secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

Amendment 13, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(A2) In section 9(1A) before paragraph (a) insert—

‘(za) if sub section (1B) below applies to the earnings, the specified sector secondary percentage;’

(A3) After section 9(1A) insert—

‘(1B) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this subsection applies to the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in question, where the earner is employed in any of the following specified sectors—

(a) adult social care,

(b) hospices,

(c) primary care,

(d) nurseries registered in the Early Years Register maintained by the Office of Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills, or

(e) a charity registered in the charity register or the Scottish charity register.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act above, the specified sector secondary percentage is 13.8%.’”

This amendment would provide that adult social care, hospice, primary care, nurseries and charities would continue to pay contributions at current rates.

Amendment 19, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) In section 9(1A) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, before paragraph (a) insert—

“(za) if the employer is a specified employer under subsection (1B), the specified employer secondary percentage;”

(A2) After section 9(1A) of that Act insert—

“(1B) A “specified employer” means—

(a) a provider of education or childcare to children under five years of age—

(i) registered in England in the early years register maintained by the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills,

(ii) registered in Wales with Care Inspectorate Wales, or

(iii) registered in Scotland with the Scottish Care Inspectorate; or

(b) a university.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act, the specified employer secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

This amendment provides that Early Years Settings and Universities would continue to pay contributions at current rates.

Amendment 20, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) In section 9(1A) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, after paragraph (aa) insert—

“(ab) if the employer is a specified employer under subsection (1B), the specified employer secondary percentage;”

(A2) After section 9(1A) of that Act insert—

“(1B) A “specified employer” means—

(a) a registered charity, or

(b) a housing association.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act, the specified employer secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

This amendment provides that charities and housing associations would continue to pay contributions at current rates.

Amendment 23, page 1, line 2, at beginning insert—

“(A1) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(A2) In section 9(1A) after paragraph (aa) insert—

“(ab) if section 9AA below applies to the earnings, the veterans secondary percentage;”

(A3) After section 9A insert—

“9AA Veterans secondary percentage

(1) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this section applies to the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in question, where the earner is a veteran.

(2) For the purposes of section 9(1A)(a) above, the veterans secondary percentage is 13.8%.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a “veteran” means a former member of any of His Majesty’s forces.””

This amendment would exempt veterans' salaries from NICs changes.

Amendment 10, page 1, line 3, at end insert—

“(1A) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(1B) In section 9(1A) after paragraph (aa) insert—

“(ab) where the employer is a specified employer under subsection (1B), the specified employer secondary percentage;”

(1C) After section 9(1A) insert—

“(1B) A “specified employer” means—

(a) a person providing a care home service or domiciliary support service regulated under the Health and Personal Social Services (Quality, Improvement and Regulation) (Northern Ireland) Order 2003, or

(b) a person providing primary medical services through contractual arrangements with a Health and Social Services Board,

(c) a person providing general dental services under Part 2 of the General Dental Services (Northern Ireland) Regulations 1993,

(d) a person providing pharmaceutical services under Part 2 of the Pharmaceutical Services Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1997,

(e) a provider of health and care registered as a charity by the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland,

(f) a person providing hospice care whether in a hospice or elsewhere,

(g) a voluntary or community organisation, and

(h) a provider of childcare registered in the Family Support NI Register.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act, the specified employer secondary percentage is 13.8%.”

(1D) After subsection (3) insert—

“(4) The Secretary of State must by regulations define a voluntary or community organisation for the purposes of subsection (1B)(g).””

This amendment aims to provide that in Northern Ireland care homes, domiciliary care providers, GP and dental surgeries, pharmacists, health and care charities, hospice care providers, voluntary or community organisations and childcare providers would remain subject to the current secondary Class 1 contribution rate, not the increased rate proposed in the Bill.

Amendment 16, in clause 1, page 1, line 3, at end insert—

“(1A) The Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(1B) In section 9(1A) before paragraph (a) insert—

“(za) if sub section (1B) below applies to the earnings, the specified sector secondary percentage;”

(1C) After section 9(1A) insert—

“(1B) Where a secondary Class 1 contribution is payable as mentioned in section 6(1)(b) above, this subsection applies to the earnings paid in the tax week, in respect of the employment in question, where the earner is employed in any of the following specified sectors—

(a) adult social care,

(b) hospices,

(c) primary care,

(d) nurseries registered with Family Support NI, or

(e) a registered charity in Northern Ireland.

(1C) For the purposes of this Act above, the specified sector secondary percentage is 13.8%.””

This amendment would provide that adult social care, hospice, primary care, nurseries and charities in Northern Ireland would continue to pay contributions at current rates.

Clause stand part.

Amendment 2, in clause 2, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

This amendment, and Amendment 3, exempts care providers, NHS GP practices, NHS commissioned dentists, NHS commissioned pharmacists, charitable providers of health and care, and those providing hospice care from the changes to the threshold.

Amendment 5, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) in respect of an earner listed in section 9AA(1) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

Amendment 8, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) in respect of an earner to whom the healthcare and small charities secondary percentage under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 applies, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

Amendment 11, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

This amendment provides that the employers listed in Amendment 10 would be subject to the existing secondary threshold for secondary Class 1 contributions, not the lower threshold proposed in the Bill.

Amendment 14, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) in respect of an earner in a specified sector under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

This amendment would exempt adult social care, hospice, primary care providers, nurseries and charities from changes to the threshold.

Amendment 17, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) in respect of an earner in a specified sector under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

This amendment would exempt adult social care, hospice, primary care providers, nurseries and charities in Northern Ireland from changes to the threshold.

Amendment 24, page 1, line 12, leave out “£96” and insert—

“(i) where the earner is a veteran within the meaning of section 9AA(3) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £175, and

(ii) in all other cases, £96.”

See Amendment 23.

Amendment 3, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 or section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

This amendment is linked to Amendments 1 and 2.

Amendment 6, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner listed in section 9AA(1) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner listed in section 9AA(1) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

Amendment 9, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner to whom the healthcare and small charities secondary percentage under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 applies, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner to whom the healthcare and small charities secondary percentage under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 applies, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

Amendment 12, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) for a specified employer under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

This amendment makes provision for the monthly and annual thresholds in line with Amendment 11.

Amendment 15, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner in a specified sector under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

This amendment would exempt adult social care, hospice, primary care providers, nurseries and charities from changes to the threshold.

Amendment 18, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner in a specified sector under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) in respect of an earner under section 9(1B) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

This amendment would exempt adult social care, hospice, primary care providers, nurseries and charities in Northern Ireland from changes to the threshold.

Amendment 25, page 1, line 14, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert—

“(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for “£758” substitute—

“(i) where the earner is a veteran within the meaning of section 9AA(3) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £758, and

(ii) in all other cases, £417”, and”

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for “£9,100” substitute—

“(i) where the earner is a veteran within the meaning of section 9AA(3) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992, £9,100, and

(ii) in all other cases £5,000.””

See Amendment 23.

Clause 2 stand part.

Clauses 3 and 4 stand part.

New clause 1—Review of the impact of the Act—

“The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within a year of this Act being passed, publish an assessment of the impact of the changes introduced by this Act on—

(a) rates of employment,

(b) real wages,

(c) inflation, and

(d) real household disposable income.”

New clause 2—Review of effect on SMEs, hospitality, tourism and seasonal workers—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within six months of the passing of this Act, lay before Parliament a review of the impact of the measures contained in this Act.

(2) The review must consider in particular—

(a) the impact of those measures on the finances and staffing of small and medium sized businesses;

(b) the impact of those measures on the finances and staffing of small and medium sized businesses in the hospitality and tourism sector;

(c) the impact of those measures on sectors who rely on seasonal workers.

(3) In this section, “small and medium sized businesses” means any business which has an average headcount of staff of less than 250 in the tax year 2023-24.”

This new clause would require the Government to produce an impact assessment of the effect of the Act on SMEs, Hospitality, Tourism and Seasonal workers and on the sectors relying on seasonal workers.

New clause 3—Review of effect of employer NIC threshold—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within six months of the passing of this Act, lay before Parliament a review of the impact of the measures contained in this Act on part-time workers.

(2) The review must consider in particular the effect of the threshold set by section 2 of this Act on part-time workers—

(a) earning £5,000 - £9,000, or

(b) working under 16 hours per week.”

This new clause would require the Government to produce a report into the impact of the employer NIC threshold on part-time staff, especially those who are lower paid or working less than 16 hours a week.

New clause 4—Employment allowance: review of exception on childcare service providers—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must conduct a review of how the exception from the employment allowance under section 2 of the National Insurance Contributions Act 2014 (“the 2014 Act”) affects providers of childcare services.

(2) The review must consider the likely impact on providers of childcare services were section 2 of the 2014 Act to be amended to enable such providers to qualify for the allowance.

(3) A report setting out the findings of the review must be published and laid before both Houses of Parliament within six months of this Act being passed.”

[Pippa Heylings]

These hikes in employer national insurance contributions are not just numbers on a spreadsheet, but will have real and damaging consequences and will strike at the heart of small and medium-sized businesses, which are the backbone of our economy. In my constituency in South Cambridgeshire, we have one of the highest densities of small and medium-sized enterprises, principally in the biotech and life sciences sector, which is a growth area for our economy. It is critical that we get this right, and I have heard from the sector that it is troubled by this legislation.

More worryingly, the consequences will extend to our social and healthcare sectors, which are already under immense strain. GP surgeries and care homes across the UK are at risk of being severely impacted. Those are essential frontline services, which are essential to supporting the NHS and to fulfilling this Government’s mission of moving from treatment to prevention, and from hospital to community.

How can we expect to tackle the backlog in routine operations, and how can we deal with the winter waiting lists at accident and emergency, and with so much pain and anguish, if the primary care providers that form the foundation of our healthcare system are being undermined by this tax increase?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dave Doogan]

The hon. Member is very kind to give way. Twice in the past couple of minutes, he has used the word “ultimately”—“Ultimately we will have to do this, and ultimately we will have to do that.” It is “actually” that he should be saying. You actually have to make sure that there is funding, not ultimately—that can wait for another day. Actually is what will happen as soon as this legislation comes to pass—you will be in an absolute quagmire.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

Mr Doogan, I will not be in a quagmire.

[Joe Morris]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his guidance on the correct form of words to use. The reason that I used the term “ultimately” is that it is the fundamental goal of Government to improve the lives of our constituents. That is why I choose to use the form of words that I am using, and why I am focused on the eventual outcome for my constituents. As I said, we did not want to inherit the country in the circumstances that we did. That is fault of the Conservative party, its record and the inheritance it left. We need to bear in mind the context, because that shapes everything and how we go about this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)]

Listening to Members speaking to the amendments has caused me to reflect on the challenges at the heart of this debate. Does my hon. Friend agree that the amendments that are trying to unpick a holistic approach to fixing the foundations of our public finances entirely miss the point, first of the challenge that this Government face in re-establishing confidence in public finances, and secondly of our approach to long-term investment in public services that are so desperately needed? I believe that all the amendments—

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

Order. The hon. Lady has every opportunity to contribute to this debate if she so wishes. Interventions are getting longer and longer; they must be shorter.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Luke Evans]

On a point of order, Ms Nokes. We are debating the National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill, in which I am not sure that Brexit is mentioned. I look to your leadership to decide whether the hon. Gentleman is in order.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

I thank the hon. Member for his point of order. He will be aware that it is important that Members stay in order. The hon. Member for Milton Keynes North (Chris Curtis) has given some context in his speech, but he might be reminded of the need to stick to national insurance contributions.

[Chris Curtis]

Thank you, Ms Nokes. I am happy to count the number of times I have mentioned national insurance in my speech, but I can guarantee Conservative Members that it has been quite frequent. I will mention it again in the following sentence.

The Budget, including the NICs changes, makes hard decisions to fix the foundations of our economy. We will work tirelessly to bring about the economic growth that the previous Government failed to achieve, so that we do not have to make such hard decisions in the future. It is only by doing so and not engaging in the fantasy economics of the Conservative party that we can break free from the cycle of failure, support businesses of all sizes and create a brighter future for our country.