Renters' Rights Bill (First sitting)

Carla Denyer Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)]

I am a landlord but only of registered social housing.

[Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)]

I am a member of the Acorn community union, which is giving evidence today.

[Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association and my husband works for an organisation that has funded the Renters’ Reform Coalition.

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[The Chair]

Three other Members are indicating that they want to come in. If we bear that in mind, with the time, we can get everybody in.

[Carla Denyer]

Q My question is a really simple one. Do you think that rents in the private rented sector are currently fair and affordable?

Theresa Wallace: It is a good question. I think that the demand is what has the effect on rents. I really believe that if we had those million social homes—I know we cannot get them overnight, but we should have a long-term strategy working towards that—you would have no pressures on rents because you would not have this imbalance in the demand and the supply, so rents would not be where they are.

Ben Beadle: Yes is the straightforward answer, for me. The rents that we have seen increased by 8.4% in the year to September. That is high by any measure, and I think, as Theresa says, it is entirely down to a lack of social housing and a lack of new stock coming to the market. It cannot be normal that you get 21 people applying to rent a property. I know the Bill deals with advance rent. As a landlord, I never ask for advance rent, but I get people saying, “I will give you 12 months’ rent up front,” before they have even seen the property. I think this mad market is not normal, and obviously it will not be resolved by this Bill. I say that because—though there are a lot of really good things in it, such as the database and the ombudsman, which we are very supportive of—it tinkers around the edges of the fundamental issue here, which is supply.

I know the Government will address social housing and right to buy, and all those things, and they are absolutely right to do so. At the same time, we do need a vibrant private rented sector. We need that vibrant private rented sector now while we work out what to do with social homes, because there is a massive lead time. What I see at the moment is everybody harking back to the wonders of the ’70s, of social housing and council housing, and looking at that as a really great thing, but we see horrible stories of local authority properties in serious disrepair. We have lower satisfaction in the social sector than we do in the private rented sector. At the same time, we are focusing on making life really difficult for responsible landlords who have good quality accommodation to bring to market. We do not want to dissuade those people from bringing it to the market; we want to encourage them. I think the sequence of this needs to be that the Bill must deliver for responsible landlords and renters, and give them security, but it must also address some fundamental issues about supply.

[Rachel Blake]

Q Theresa, I was struck by your remarks about rising homelessness. You will be aware from the public P1E data about causes of homelessness that the end of a tenancy is the leading cause of homelessness at the moment. I would be interested to know more about why you think any changes to that would actually increase homelessness.

Theresa Wallace: At the moment, a very small percentage of landlords actually terminate tenancies and serve section 21 notices. The majority of those landlords are selling, want to move back in or have rent arrears. It all comes down to our lack of supply, and losing more landlords from the sector. I think we will lose more landlords, and we are losing them at the moment—not just because of this Bill, I have to stress; they are leaving for all sorts of reasons. It might be retirement, or it might be the high interest rates that are affecting them. I do not think it is just the Bill, but our biggest issue is landlords leaving the sector when we do not have enough properties for renters.

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[Carla Denyer]

Q When I met your Citizens Advice colleagues in my constituency, they said, “We can give all the advice that you like, but ultimately, the problem is that money out is more than money in.” I have that ringing in my ears, and that inspires this question.

We all know that rents have been increasing out of proportion to incomes over the last few years, creating this growing gap where one or, at this rate, two generations of people risk never being able to afford to get out of the private rented sector. I am really worried about that, especially as that group ages. Do you think the Bill does enough to address the issue of affordability of rents and the long-term and growing problem of those generations of people, moving into old age, permanently trapped in the private rented sector?

Tom MacInnes: We will not go back to the bit about rent rises, but we will talk about some other aspects. The thing that concerns us is asking for enormous amounts of rent up front, so what we want is to have that limited to a month’s rent up front. There are also other issues around guarantors and asking for guarantors, in the next stage along the process. We think that has discriminatory consequences against people who actually can afford it, but cannot point to the evidence of it—people who could afford the rent but do not have anyone in their social circle, if you like, who could back them up for a year or whatever. We would like the instances of relying on guarantors to be reduced. If the issue of perceived affordability changes, the choice for those groups grows; we are looking for that kind of support.

We welcome the end of “No DSS, no benefits”, but we are worried about that coming in in other ways, such as someone not having rich enough friends to back them up. We would like to see that being addressed.

[Carla Denyer]

Q As far as I am concerned, you can talk about rent controls.

Tarun Bhakta: We really agree with those points about rent in advance and guarantors, which are particular priorities for Shelter. Particularly through our legal services, we have been one of the foremost organisations supporting tenants to challenge DSS or housing benefit discrimination. We see how slippery that discrimination is. It is very difficult for tenants to understand whether they have experienced it.

To add to what Tom said, we have some evidence that rent-in-advance requests are disproportionately made to housing benefit claimants, but that also applies to older renters, as do guarantor requests. Rent-in-advance and guarantor requests often come together or are linked. A lot of older renters do not have someone in their support network who is willing or able to offer to be a guarantor. The effect of these requests that landlords introduce is to lock people out of the rented sector. Tom said that they are perceived affordability issues. It is that first step into housing, and affordability is strongly relevant to that, but we find that people who can afford the rent are prevented from renting properties because of arbitrary barriers such as rent-in-advance and guarantor requests.

To answer your question more directly, it is fair to say that the Bill does not introduce measures to address affordability in the sector. We think the Government should take a longer look at that and, to go back to my previous answer, take a more reasoned approach to rent controls. Essentially, they should explore the options, particularly where rent increases for sitting tenants are forcing them out of their homes. That undermines the core purpose of this Bill, which is to provide greater security for tenants and help them to avoid homelessness. Beyond that, it is clear that we need much greater provision of social housing and much more adequate housing benefit in order to tackle some of the affordability issues in the private rented sector.

[Michael Wheeler (Worsley and Eccles) (Lab)]

Q The previous panellists believe that the Bill will increase homelessness. My simple question is: do you agree with that assessment of the Bill?

Tom MacInnes: I do not think we would agree with that, no. By way of background, the number of people that Citizens Advice is helping with homelessness has never been higher—we hit a record this summer—so the number of people who are homeless is already incredibly high. The Bill gives more power back to the tenant, so we think it redresses a power balance.

One of the things that we would like to think about to reduce homelessness is the bit that happens at the end of the tenancy. The landlord has to give a four-month notice period, but within that the tenant has to give two—two months within that four. So the tenant is given a deadline, which is shortened, to find another place, and it is often difficult to find another home. We have talked about the affordability issues. There is an issue about potential homelessness at the end of a tenancy that everyone knows is going to end in any case. We would like to see that period reduced, ideally to zero but certainly to one month.

There is also a really good case for a rental waiver—a rent-free period—within the last two months of the four so that people can afford to move out. They must be able to afford the fairly substantial initial costs of moving, and not pay two months’ rent, because there is a homelessness risk right there. No, I do not think the Bill will increase homelessness.

Tarun Bhakta: I have a simple answer followed by a less simple one. No, the Bill will not increase homelessness. We have already heard that the end of assured shorthold tenancies is the leading cause of homelessness. The Bill will eradicate short-notice and no-reason evictions, which many believe are not legitimate and would not meet the bar for eviction under the new system. We are supportive of the way that section 21 and fixed-term tenancies are being abolished and of the implementation approach set out by the Government. We think the Bill will reduce homelessness. I very much agree with Tom that, if and when tenants are served with an eviction notice, the Bill could go further in supporting tenants in access to finding a new rental home. I will come back to the point about rent in advance and guarantors.

Housing benefit claimants are disproportionately at risk of homelessness if they are served with an eviction and they face these additional barriers disproportionately. According to Acorn research, one in five renters claiming housing benefit had been asked for 12 months’ rent in advance in the last three years compared with just 6% of renters not in receipt of housing benefit, which shows how disproportionately the barrier is applied to housing benefit claimants, who are in turn themselves, being on lower income, more at risk of facing homelessness once they are served with an eviction notice. That is one area where we would say the Bill is a work in progress. We could improve that access to new rented homes where tenants are served with an eviction, and that would help people to avoid homelessness if and when they are served an eviction.

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[Claire Hazelgrove]

Q Thank you both for joining us today. It is so important to hear renters’ voices here in Parliament as we discuss this crucial Bill. A simple question from me: do you believe that, as drafted, the Bill will improve the lives of, and make things fairer for, the millions of renters across our country?

Tom Darling: Simply put, yes. We will be pushing in a number of places where we think the Bill should go further and where we do not think the Government have quite got the balance right, but the groups in our coalition have been campaigning for this change since the promise was first made nearly six years ago. We think it will be an important change to our housing system.

Ben Twomey: Yes. Our homes are the foundations of our lives. The Bill will give us some much-needed security and should drive up standards and quality. As I say, we are worried about affordability within that, but the main reason why you as politicians have probably not heard from renters so much as is in the past year or two is that things have got so desperate. We are worried that if there are some improvements to renting, suddenly we will lose our ability to have spaces like this where we can begin to make change. If this is to be a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make that change, we think you should cover all bases and make sure that no one finds themselves homeless, in poverty or in debt because of the fact that they have been forced into private renting.

[Carla Denyer]

Q You will notice that I have a rent-affordability theme, but this is probably my last question on that theme. I am aware that the Renters’ Reform Coalition would like to see a national rental affordability commission that looks into options for rent controls. If we reflect on what a previous panellist said about rent controls being not a single thing but an umbrella term for a wide spectrum of possible interventions, Tom, or Ben if you have anything to add, would you like to expand on how a national rental affordability commission might work to figure out what the best solutions would be?

Tom Darling: I think Ben touched on it. The literature shows that different types of rent control have worked best in combination with a bunch of other policy levers, and particularly the supply of social housing. If the Government are continuing to set out that affordability is not the thing they are going to deal with in this Bill, we think it would be sensible to have a national rental affordability commission that could look at all these issues in the round—including all the different policy levers such as local housing allowance, housing benefit, the supply of social housing and different forms of rent controls—to bring down rents relative to wages and make renting more affordable. That feels like a pipe dream at the moment, but it should not be. That should be our aim. If the Government are not going to take forward affordability in this Bill, that sort of commission might be a place where they could look at all the different policy levers which, it should be said, cut across different Departments, and it might be a way to take that forward.

Ben Twomey: On that point, the idea of rent regulation being a scary thing is not new, and it is something that is hammed up by the landlord groups. They obviously want to make as much as profit as they can, but they do not have a right to make profit; they have a right to seek it. In this market, it is so broken because, unlike lots of other types of markets, the landlords can just click their fingers and say, “I’m short £100 this month. I’ll get it off my tenant.” A tenant will usually be forced to pay or have no other options unless they want to leave the home or even become homeless.

It is a very broken market. We used to have regulation in many ways in the country more than 30 years ago. Things have not got better since then, so the trial we have had of not using these measures has not really worked for people. These are all things that a commission could look at, or on which the Bill could take some quite straightforward measures. Similar to the energy price cap, with which we recognise that energy is essential for our homes, our homes are also essential for our homes. We should probably think about some common-sense solutions to that.

[The Chair]

The Minister will ask the final questions.

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[Claire Hazelgrove]

Q Thank you for joining us today. I am looking at your impressive background: you have clearly done a lot of great work on homelessness and in other areas, whether at City Hall addressing rough sleeping, or on the social impact bond on homelessness. With that lens in mind, do you feel that the Bill will deliver on the Government’s aims to give renters greater security and stability and to reduce the risk of homelessness? Is there anything you want to add along those lines?

Richard Blakeway: First, thank you for recognising that previous work. There are specific things in the Bill that increase the protections for renters and the security of tenure for renters. Those are welcome and important and would prevent the risk of homelessness for some individuals. It also changes the relationship between the resident and the landlord, and addresses an imbalance of power that exists at the moment. In changing the relationship, the importance of redress is fundamental, to ensure that there is not a breakdown in that relationship and that a tenant does not end up living in conditions that are not acceptable. We must also recognise that the role of a redress provider is also to share the experience and the learning that we have through our casework to ensure that landlords can effectively fulfil their obligations and raise standards.

This Bill is not only about increasing security for individuals; it is about a wider shift and change in the role of the private rented sector in this country—a sector that is completely different from the one that was envisaged and started to emerge decades ago. It is different in scale, different in the types of properties, and different in the range of providers. So the real impact of this Bill over time will be a real shift in the landscape of the private rented sector and a raising of standards. It is important that landlords are part of that journey and can affect that in their own actions, and that an ombudsman service is there to help individuals exercise their rights, but also to provide the insight and intelligence to landlords to ensure that they prevent problems that need to go to an ombudsman from occurring.

[Carla Denyer]

Q I have three questions, but they are all yes/no, so you can be as brief as you like. First, do you agree with a previous panellist that the landlord licensing rules need to be loosened so that councils can have more discretion and flexibility to apply, for example, landlord licensing across their whole area rather than just bits of it? Secondly, do you think that the potential penalty of £7,000 that local authorities can apply is sufficient to act as a deterrent? Thirdly, do you think that the Bill goes far enough on housing quality, and especially energy efficiency, given that, as we have heard from previous panellists, homes in the UK are some of the worst in Europe on energy efficiency, and the private rented sector is the worst within that?

Richard Blakeway: On licensing, yes.

On the deterrent, yes and no. You have to recognise that the penalties have increased in this Bill, and that is important, but I emphasise my point about the scope and whether, for example, non-compliance with ombudsman decisions should be brought into the scope of that.

On energy efficiency, obviously there are significant measures in here, but it will be important to see what the decent homes standard—I think it is in clause 98—contains in order to judge what the standard of accommodation will look like in the future.

[The Chair]

I have no Members indicating to me that they have further questions, so that brings us to the end of the morning session. The Committee will meet again at 2 pm this afternoon in this room.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Gen Kitchen.)

Renters' Rights Bill (Second sitting)

Carla Denyer Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Rachel Blake]

Q You rightly highlighted that tenants will rely on local authorities to pursue enforcement and that there is a very variable standard among local authorities for doing so, although you mentioned that tenants would not be able to take enforcement action themselves. You have alluded to a possible duty—that is a question that you have thrown out there—but what other alternatives might there be?

Giles Peaker: Tenants will have their existing rights under the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2019 amendments to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. Quite how far that will overlap with the decent homes standard—well, we will have to see what is in the decent homes standard. There will certainly be some degree of overlap, I imagine, through the presence of housing, health and safety rating system hazards, so there would still be a route for tenants to take action on specific hazards, but it will not necessarily enforce decent homes, full stop.

Justin Bates KC: For my part, I think that by far the better tenant-empowerment repairing provisions of this legislation are the extension of Awaab’s law to the private sector. If you get the details of secondary legislation right, that could be a real game changer, because that will be enforceable by tenants through private law proceedings in the county court. If you set sufficiently robust—fair, but robust—timescales, you will do a lot of lawyers out of work, which would be an excellent thing. Look at that.

[Carla Denyer (Bristol Central) (Green)]

This is my first time on a Public Bill Committee, Sir Christopher, so I might make a mistake with process. May I briefly point Jerome at the answers provided in written evidence and in earlier verbal evidence, which I felt answered the question already? In terms of, “Surely, won’t all tenants do it?”, I think we heard a clear answer that, for the vast majority of the population, anything to do with courts is a terrifying and bureaucratically faffy process that they will not want to engage with. On “Won’t landlords just max it out”—

[The Chair]

Order. I am going to stop you there, because this is an opportunity for Committee members to ask questions of the people who have come along as witnesses. We have limited time and once we start opening up a debate with other Committee members, it will be at the expense of being able to hear what we hope is, and is likely to be, very valuable evidence. If you have a question for any of the members of the panel, I shall be happy to take it, but if not, I suggest that you have your arguments with other Members when we get into full line-by-line consideration, when there will be plenty of opportunity for you to intervene on another Member with whom you disagree.

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[Matthew Pennycook]

Yes, that is very useful. Thank you.

Anna Evans: In terms of the differences between your Bill and the private residential tenancy, I have to confess that I am not an expert on your Bill, so I cannot answer that in detail, but I can say that the PRT is an open-ended tenancy. It has no fixed-term period. There is the eradication of eviction with no grounds. Eviction proceedings are simplified to 18 statutory grounds and there has to be a reason—what are the grounds for eviction? There are extended notice periods and also a phased implementation. I think that is a key point. A lesson that the current Housing (Scotland) Bill is looking at is whether short assured and assured tenancies should actually just be terminated now because there has been long enough. There is still a good proportion of assured tenancies in existence—we estimate probably about 20%. Short assured tenancies are certainly less secure, so one lesson would be that if you are changing, do not do it over seven years; do not delay.

[Carla Denyer]

Q Since you are an expert on the Scottish system, I will make use of your expertise; I want to ask more about rent controls. In my understanding, when the Scottish Government initially brought in rent controls in tenancy, that was because that was all they had the power to do at the time—they brought it in using existing legislation, initially during the cost of living crisis triggered by the pandemic—and ultimately, that they might do something different. You mentioned the Bill going through at the moment. In your view, is there an inherent problem with rent controls, or could the problems that you described be remedied by having some kind of controls between, as well as within, tenancies?

Anna Evans: I think what we have concluded from all of the evidence is that the rent control has to be very carefully designed to avoid unintended consequences. It is above my pay grade to say what that design might be, but there could be a range of ways in which landlords try to get around rent control. We have seen examples of offers from tenants—I understand that your Bill will avoid wars between tenants, in terms of rent levels, but because of demand-supply imbalance, tenants do offer landlords higher rents to get properties. Evidence across different states shows that rent control efficacy is variable, so it has to be very carefully designed.

[Jerome Mayhew]

Q You mentioned unintended consequences, a topic that I have come back to repeatedly today. We heard evidence earlier that rents in Scotland have outpaced those in the rest of the United Kingdom quite considerably in, I think, the last five years. You mentioned the 2022 rent control legislation and the impact that that has had on rents. If you can strip that out in your own mind and give us an assessment of what impact rent reform has had on rents over the past seven years, can you give the Committee a flavour of whether rents have gone up as a result, stayed the same, or reduced?

Anna Evans: We show in the report that the rents increased at a similar rate to the rest of the UK until ’22. If you were trying to isolate why there was a more considerable increase since that time, you could probably fairly conclude that it was because of the 2022 legislation, but it is very difficult to isolate out. The range of legislation that has been implemented in Scotland is significant, but there was a tipping point in ’22 when rents in Scotland appear to have increased at a greater rate than in the UK. The key point was the 2022 legislation.

I should also caveat all of that—as we have in our report—by saying that the Scottish rent data is not as good. It is based on advertised rents rather than any survey of in-tenancy rents. The published data on rent levels and the hike in Scotland will be for new tenancies, and therefore, that will naturally be inflated compared with most tenancies, because we know that landlords do not tend to increase rents in tenancy. They prefer to keep them at a level that keeps tenants content and therefore they have a longer rental period. That evidence has to be considered with caution, because it is based on advertised rents.

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[Sam Carling]

Q It was about the point that quite a lot of students drop out of university, so there is an issue, on the flipside of some of the points you made before, about those students being locked in. Would you agree that this Bill addresses that?

Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: Yes. I think a lot of landlords release tenants, certainly in the PBSA sector. If somebody leaves university or their circumstances change, I think a lot of landlords release tenants. I think it is right that if somebody leaves university, a landlord should seriously consider releasing them, perhaps with two months’ notice, and letting them leave. I think that would be a very good element of a student tenancy. Unipol is a landlord, and we release tenants if their circumstances have changed. It is a relatively small number of students who require that, but it is difficult. That would undoubtedly be an advantage to the students who need it.

[Carla Denyer]

Q I have a specific question on the new grounds for possession that we were just talking about. I interpreted the wording of the new ground that specifically gives the power to recover possession between June and September as potentially an oversight. One of the written statements we received—RRB 04, for Committee members—highlights that as well. The ground seems to fail to consider other kinds of students, such as people on a one-year Masters that starts in January, or nursing students who are often studying over the summer. I know, as I am friends with some of those people, that they found it hard enough to get housing on a non-traditional term as it was, without giving landlords a particular power to kick them out halfway through the summer when they are halfway through their course. Do you share that concern, and do you have suggestions for whether that should be changed?

Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: There are significant numbers of students—I do not know the exact numbers, but more and more are starting with January start dates. Some universities have five points in the year when you can start a degree or a Masters. It is problematic for Masters students whose course goes on until September or October, when they are having to write up, or PhD students. That can be difficult. I think there should be more flexibility in the current timetable of June to September, and perhaps in the ability to give notice at different points in the year for student properties.

[The Chair]

I am afraid we do not have the flexibility to allow this question session to go on any further. Thank you very much for your attendance.

Examination of Witnesses

Melanie Leech, Suzannah Young and Timothy Douglas gave evidence.

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[Sam Carling]

Q Picking up on the point you made about illegal evictions, is there anything we can do with the landlord database to help with that and some of the other issues you raise?

Anny Cullum: I think the landlord database will be excellent. It is important from our point of view that the landlord database includes information for tenants on previous enforcement action that has been taken against landlords, because you can then make an informed choice as a tenant about where you would like to rent. That will be another way to deter landlords from behaving illegally because they know they will have a mark against their name on the register. We hope the register will mean that, rather than tenants trying to compete for homes at the moment, landlords are competing for tenants by behaving in a good way and providing a good service. Having that sort of information on the database would be incredibly helpful.

[Carla Denyer]

Q I want to ask about one of the things in your submission, so this may help you to expand on it. I thought your proposal on the right to withhold rent for serious disrepair is interesting: it sounds quite radical on the surface, but in any other sector, if one party was breaching a contract and failing to deliver a service, it would be quite normal to withhold payments. Can you expand at all on how that would work in practice or how you envisage it working? What are Acorn’s views on the proposed regime for managing unaffordable rent hikes, and is it enough?

Anny Cullum: On withholding rent for serious disrepair, there are much-improved schemes and action within the Bill around the decent homes standard and improving standards for tenants, but a lot of the action set out to be taken if tenants are experiencing disrepair is retroactive or down the line. We know that councils can take a long time to act and that lots of tenants will not pursue things like rent repayment orders because they just do not have the time and energy. But if someone is living with serious disrepair—things like the damp and mould laid out in Awaab’s law, which we are pleased to see moving over to the private rented sector—we think there could be a mechanism whereby, if it is not fixed within the timescale set out by Awaab’s law, they could withhold their rent and pay it to a third party, which could then give the landlord another timescale within which to solve it. If they did not solve it, the tenant would get the rent paid back. If they did, the landlord would get the rent.

That would be an immediate incentive to do the work and stop leaving people in the dangerous conditions we see all the time. Landlords are not necessarily going to worry in the moment about a rent repayment order that a tenant may or may not put in for, which would take ages to go through a court—landlords sometimes do not even pay them anyway—whereas, if you can withhold the rent, that will speed along the process of sorting out mouldy and unsafe homes. So that is the mechanism we would think of. There are lots of considerations as to how it could work. If you consult on bringing Awaab’s law into the private rented sector, that will be a good place to think about the best mechanism to do it.

I think your second question was about rent hikes—rent rises.

[Carla Denyer]

Q Yes—whether you think that the Bill goes far enough to prevent or manage unaffordable rent hikes.

Anny Cullum: Unfortunately, no. We as an organisation at the moment would never recommend that anyone go to the rent tribunal, because we have seen tenants go there and have more rent—a higher percentage—awarded than the landlord was asking for in the first place. We are pleased to see that you are going to get rid of that, but we would like to see rent rises capped at the lower of median wage growth over the last three years or inflation. From my experience, I know most tenants are not going to go to the tribunal. It is brilliant if they do, but a lot of people will accept the rise, or have to move out because they cannot afford it, or get into debt. This means that the people who do go to the tribunal will still be judged against market rents that are way more unaffordable than the one at which they went into their contract. Does that make sense? We are not going to bring rents down just by tinkering with the tribunal.

This is mainly about making sure that people can stay in their homes and it does not undermine the Government’s efforts to prevent no-fault evictions. This could easily be used as a no-fault eviction by the back door. You could just put the rent up to a level that you know your tenant cannot afford. We do not think comparing what is affordable with new prices is the best way, so we would advocate for that cap on how much rent could be increased by.

[Connor Naismith]

Q Helpfully, the question I wanted to ask has been answered, so I will just give you the opportunity to say anything that you have not been able to cover in other answers, but that you would like to see from the Bill.

Anny Cullum: As I said, the five areas that I wanted to cover were illegal evictions, landlord licensing, capping rent up front to one month, withholding rent for disrepair and making renting more affordable. We see even the cap on in-tenancy rent rises as not really about affordability, but mainly about preventing back-door economic evictions or section 21s. We feel that, while this Bill goes far on improving security for renters, it is not going to do enough to address one of the No. 1 problems our tenants and members are coming to us with every day, which is affordability. Rents are outstripping wages all the time. We would like to see the Government set up a commission to look into ways we can bring rents down and keep them affordable once and for all. That is something that we would like to see.

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[Claire Hazelgrove]

Q Is my hon. Friend certain that the Bill, as drafted, provides enough protections against huge advance rent requests?

Matthew Pennycook: It is a very good question, and we have touched on this issue, as well as guarantors. I am happy to give the Committee a sense of my thinking, because I have reflected further on the matter in the light of concerns that have been put to us by not only external stakeholders but several hon. Members in the Second Reading debate on 9 October.

As I made clear in that debate, the Government have long recognised that demands for extortionate rent in advance place a considerable financial strain on tenants and can exclude certain groups from renting altogether. We are very clear that the practice of landlords demanding large amounts of rent in advance must be prohibited. Although it might be argued that the interaction of the new rent periods in clause 1, which are a month or 28 days, and the existing provisions of the Tenant Fees Act 2019, relating to prohibited payments, provide a measure of protection against requests for large amounts of advance rent, I am increasingly of the view, speaking candidly, that there is a strong case for putting this matter beyond doubt. I am giving careful consideration as to how best that might be achieved in the course of the Bill’s passage.

[Carla Denyer]

Q One of the topics that has come up several times today is whether grounds for possession should all be discretionary, or whether some should be mandatory and some discretionary. I understand that, when the previous Renters (Reform) Bill was going through, you were in favour of them all being discretionary.

Matthew Pennycook: That is not correct.

[Carla Denyer]

Okay, then this is an invitation for you to talk us through your rationale, because that was my understanding. While I am at it, if there is anything where your mind has changed since the previous Bill, could you briefly talk us through why?

Matthew Pennycook: It is important to give context for the debates on the previous Bill and why, in certain circumstances, we were probing the Minister on making grounds discretionary rather than mandatory, and whether we were pressing the then Minister on additional protections for tenants relating to some of those grounds. The rationale for that was ensuring that the grounds, if they were mandatory, would not be abused. I suppose where my thinking has changed on many of them—I will continue to think on whether we have done enough on specific grounds for possession to protect tenants against abuse—is that the other actions we have taken in the Bill provide the protection we need.

I will give an example. On grounds 1 and 1A, where the previous protected period was smaller and the previous re-let period was much smaller—three months, not the 12 that we are proposing—in our view there was clear scope for abuse there. In many parts of the country, particularly hot rental markets—including London, and I am sure it is the same in Bristol—landlords are quite willing to suffer three-month void periods because the rents are so high. In a sense, if that is your re-let period on those mandatory grounds, you can get rid of what you consider a problem tenant, such as one who has complained perhaps entirely appropriately about damp, mould and other hazards. If you wait the three-month void period, then re-let, you have effectively recreated section 21 by the back door.

I think we have dealt with the abuse, which is from memory where we were probing the Minister about the discretionary or mandatory distinction. We have provided protections in other ways in the majority of cases. I am giving consideration, as I say, to some of the grounds and whether we have quite got sufficient protections in place. I think Justin Bates KC, for example, raised ground 6A, where action is rightly taken against the landlord whose practices need bearing down on, but the tenant should not suffer in that regard.

[Michael Wheeler]

Q I am sure the Minister will agree that we have heard some illuminating evidence today from excellent panellists. I am wondering what he sees as the key takeaways for the Bill.

Matthew Pennycook: I welcome that question; it is an open one, and I will have to think on my feet in my response. I think a number of the debates will run through the Bill. Supply is one of those. I am clear that we do not want an exodus of landlords from the sector, but I have seen absolutely no evidence of that. It is a threat that has been bandied about for many years now, ever since the previous Government announced their intention to abolish section 21 no-fault notices.

The size of the private rented sector has doubled since the early 2000s. There has been an outflux of smaller landlords, particularly overgeared buy-to-let landlords, which is mainly a result of the section 24 tax changes that George Osborne introduced in 2015, explicitly to slow the growth of the private rented sector. So there has been an exit of certain types of landlord from the sector, but we have certainly not seen an exodus.

The feedback I have had from landlords over recent months and in the previous Parliament is that the most damaging thing for many was the uncertainty about whether reform was coming through in any form. That is why we felt we needed to act quickly. In general, good landlords have absolutely nothing to fear from the new system. We think it provides a framework in which they can continue to invest and operate.

Another point that has been prevalent in the debate is protections for renters against unreasonable within-tenancy rent hikes. In designing the Bill, I have been clear where we have overhauled and strengthened its provisions to strike that balance. We do not want to do anything that could potentially make things much more difficult for tenants, which is why the Government are not advocating rent controls in the Bill. The Scottish experience is instructive of what can happen as an unintended consequence, and we think there would be an impact on supply, quality and standards, as evidence around the world shows.

In many cases there is a judgment call on students and other possession grounds, and it is is a fine balance as to whether we have got it right in the Bill. But there are competing pressures and disincentives in a system—I am being incredibly candid with the Committee here—that has not been overhauled for 30 years. Lots of the speculation about how the tribunal will operate, and how many section 8 cases will go there, is in some ways all completely speculative. We have a sense of what we want to see and how to address the risks, but until the system is properly bedded in, I do not think anyone will know what we have to do in the design to ensure that we have the balance right and will not therefore see the tribunal overwhelmed.

We want to see more people to go to the tribunal. We want section 8 cases to go through the courts more efficiently. We absolutely concede the need for court improvements, and we are working closely with the MOJ on those—I have given some examples in response to the question about what we are taking forward. There is a balance that needs to be struck, and I think we struck the right balance in overhauling the Bill in the specific ways we have, while keeping—I gave the Conservative party the credit for this at the time—the sensible provisions that were in the previous Bill, which we think need to remain at the core of the legislation.