Baroness Verma
Main Page: Baroness Verma (Conservative - Life peer)
Baroness Worthington (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for tabling these amendments but, although we are sympathetic to their intent, it is fair to say that we would take a different approach.
This part of the Bill, which introduces measures to try to protect independent generators, is a clear indication that there is something very wrong with our electricity market. It is another layer of complexity that the Bill introduces to the market, and it is needed because we have probably all had considerable representation from independent generators saying that they are simply not able to gain access to the market on fair terms. That is very regrettable and a clear sign that something major needs to take place in the shake-up of the electricity market. Unfortunately, the Bill does not do that and was never intended to, and I am inclined to agree with my noble friend Lord O’Neill that another Bill would be needed to sort this out.
As I said, this is an extra complexity, and my general rule of thumb is that increased complexity equals decreased efficiency. I am sorry that we have had to enter into this market with new provisions to enable independent generators to gain access. All electricity ought to be sold into an open and transparent pool or market so that everyone has a fair crack at the whip and ultimately everybody can gain fair access to customers through supply companies. I fear that these amendments, although welcome, are something of a sticking plaster and would not really get to the root of the problem.
The Labour Party has made it very clear that our solution to this is to split up the vertical integration of the big six and to introduce a new regulator with real teeth, focusing squarely on the consumer and delivering better competition in all aspects of the electricity market. The amendments go some way towards achieving that but I do not think that they do enough, so I am afraid that, although we are sympathetic, we are not able to support them.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Baroness Verma) (Con)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the debate on the amendments and I shall speak to them after I have spoken to my own amendments in this group. The amendments standing in my name pertain to powers that enable the establishment of a power purchase agreement scheme, which could provide generators with access to an offtaker of last resort. The offtaker of last resort mechanism will benefit both independent renewable generators and investors by providing a guaranteed backstop route to market through which generators can sell their power. This will enable generators to use new and different routes to market, ending their dependency on established players and stimulating new entry and innovation in the PPA market.
The amendments I am speaking to today address specific concerns raised in Committee that the price at which electricity is purchased in PPAs under the scheme should be determined by reference to the current market price. Amendment 61 clarifies that a PPA under the scheme is an arrangement under which a supplier agrees to purchase electricity,
“at a discount to a prevailing market price”.
This amendment confirms our policy intent that the offtaker of last resort mechanism is exactly that: a last resort. Electricity purchased through the PPAs under the scheme must be purchased at a discount to a market price. This will give confidence to suppliers that they will not be required to purchase electricity at above-market prices. I assure the House that it is the Government’s intention that the level of discount should also represent a sufficient level of revenue to enable generators to raise finance. The discount level will form a key part of our consultation in early 2014.
Amendment 63 enables the Secretary of State to make provision in licence or code modifications to determine the appropriate discount and market price for PPAs under the scheme. I believe that these amendments clarify our policy intentions.
Amendment 61A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, would mean that a PPA under the scheme is an arrangement under which a supplier agrees to purchase electricity at a discount to the market price and that the discount is no more than 5%. It is important that the discount is large enough to ensure that PPAs under the scheme are a last resort. The requirement for the discount to be no larger than 5% is not compatible with that; given that open-market PPAs typically have larger discounts, the scheme would quickly become a first, rather than last, resort. This would undermine new entrants to the PPA market and mean that anticipated benefits of the scheme in terms of facilitating a more dynamic and competitive PPA market would not materialise.
On Amendment 59A, I begin by stating my strong, and, I believe, shared desire to see ambitious action to improve wholesale market liquidity, which is crucial to allow independent generators and suppliers to compete without restriction. That is what Ofgem is doing through its ambitious package of reforms to address low levels of liquidity in the market, and what this Government will do should Ofgem’s reforms be delayed or frustrated. If it proves necessary for the Government to act, they should consider all options to achieve their objectives, including those listed in Clause 43. However, it would not be prudent to tie our hands to a particular course of action at this stage.
I hope that noble Lords have found my explanations reassuring and that the noble Lord will agree to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Berkeley
My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken—some in support, some less so. We have had a very good debate. I think we all agree that this issue is not going to go away. We probably will need to see whether there is new legislation after the Labour Party wins the next election, or whether the annual review from the competition people will result in a recommendation. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Worthington
My Lords, I support Amendment 60. I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I will not reiterate my earlier comments, which are that I consider this whole section of the Bill to be a sad necessity that need not have been there had the Government grasped the bigger picture of properly introducing competition during their energy market reforms. However, Amendment 60 seems to be eminently sensible. It is clear, from all the contributions we have heard today, that there is insufficient confidence among independent generators that the Government are serious about introducing something to assist them at this time. It is also quite clear that the clauses we are now debating are a last-minute addition to the Bill.
When the Government started out on this process they maintained that there was no problem and nothing to be worried about; I suspect that this was because they paid far too much attention to what the big six were telling them and insufficient attention to what the independent generators were saying. We therefore have these four clauses, which do not go far enough in providing the detail or the certainty that investors require. Ministers should at the very least be able to concede that these arrangements will be in place in time for the awarding of the first CFDs; that would be the absolute minimum.
On the other amendments, which are slightly more detailed—I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, that they may be too prescriptive for primary legislation—the regulations that flow from these clauses must be published before the Bill leaves this House, as we need to see the detail. I apologise if the draft regulations have in fact already been published; they may have been lost in the huge number of documents, for which we are grateful, that have been issued to us. However, if they have not been published, can the Minister tell us when they will be so that we can see how this policy will work and appreciate the detail? I hope that that will go some way to reassure the noble Lords who have spoken in this debate this afternoon.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank my noble friends Lord Roper and Lord Jenkin, and the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, for their amendments on the issue of route to market for independent renewable generators. Taken together, these amendments would place the Secretary of State under a duty to ensure that: a PPA scheme is in place by the time the first contracts for difference are allocated; the terms of PPAs under the scheme are demonstrably viable for eligible electricity generators and will enable them to borrow money on reasonable terms; eligible generators can obtain a PPA under the scheme within seven days; and that all generators eligible for a CFD are eligible for a PPA under the scheme.
I am grateful to noble Lords for the opportunity to clarify the Government’s intentions, which are very much in keeping with the spirit of these amendments. I assure the House that, as my right honourable friend Michael Fallon has said, the Government are committed to consulting on the introduction of an offtaker of last resort mechanism, and that they intend, subject to consultation, a scheme to be in place by the time the first CFDs are signed. That will give generators and investors the certainty that they need to make investment decisions. However, it would not be appropriate to place the Secretary of State under a duty to establish a scheme by a particular date before the final policy design has been completed and consulted upon.
The Government are also committed to ensuring that the mechanism is viable for eligible independent generators, which should enable generators to borrow money on reasonable terms. However, the Government cannot guarantee that, since access to finance and the viability of the scheme for individual generators are affected by a variety of factors that are out of our control. We also fully intend that those generators which need to access a PPA under the scheme will be able to do so quickly and simply via a transparent and fair process.
It is important that the scheme is targeted at those generators which genuinely need to access it. The scheme may not be suitable or necessary for all CFD-holding technologies, so we do not judge that it is appropriate for this to be required in primary legislation. I also assure the House that the Government intend to grandfather the terms of PPAs under the scheme, including the level of discount, from the date a generator signs its CFD.
I met with the Independent Renewable Energy Generators Group last week to reassure it on these points. It confirmed that it believes that the offtaker of last resort is a viable solution to its concerns, subject to the final decision—sorry; subject to the final design. The details of the offtaker of last resort mechanism will be specified in secondary legislation following consultation early next year, so it is not appropriate at this stage to set them out in the Bill. I reassure noble Lords that we aim to have secondary legislation in force by the time the first CFDs are signed. This is a challenging timetable. It is subject to consultation and parliamentary process. However, this should not have a material impact on generators since they will not need access to backstop PPAs until after projects have been commissioned, which is likely to be several months after signing the first CFD.
Noble Lords also asked when the first CFD allocations will become available. We have already signalled that we intend to consult, possibly in the early new year, and aim to have secondary legislation in force by the time of the first CFD. I hope that I have reassured noble Lords that the Government’s intention is to ensure certainty for smaller generators. We want to see greater competition. We believe that the measures we are taking and the mechanisms we are using are the right ones. I hope that the noble Lord will find my explanations reassuring and will therefore agree to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Roper
I am grateful for the support my amendment has had from all parts of the House. I am also grateful that the Minister has listened to what has been said and, indeed, made some reassuring comments. I am certainly reassured to a significant extent. She said that she wished to act in keeping with the spirit of the amendment and I am happy about that. I also understand the constraints imposed upon her by the consultation. However, I return to one of the points I made in introducing the amendment and that comes back to a phrase she used, which I hope I understood. She said initially the final “decision” and then moved on to say the final “design”. I believe that she meant the final design; that is, not whether or not there will be an offtaker of last resort but how it will work—the design for such an offtaker.
Lord Roper
My Lords, that is indeed a very reassuring statement. It suggests that the Government are moving in the direction that we wish. I suspect it means we will not need to return to this at Third Reading. We have had some useful assurances today and, on the basis of that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma (Con)
Baroness Verma
“Closure of support under the renewables obligation
(1) After section 32L of EA 1989 insert—
“32LA Renewables obligation closure order
(1) The Secretary of State may make a renewables obligation closure order.
(2) A renewables obligation closure order is an order which provides that no renewables obligation certificates are to be issued under a renewables obligation order in respect of electricity generated after a specified date.
(3) Provision made under subsection (2) may specify different dates in relation to different cases or circumstances.
(4) The cases or circumstances mentioned in subsection (2) may in particular be described by reference to—
(a) accreditation of a generating station, or(b) the addition of generating capacity to a generating station.(5) A renewables obligation closure order may include provision about—
(a) the meaning of “accreditation” and “generating capacity” in subsection (4);(b) when generating capacity is to be treated as added to a generating station for the purposes of that subsection.(6) References in this section to a renewables obligation order are references to any renewables obligation order made under section 32 (whenever made, and whether or not made by the Secretary of State).
(7) Power to make provision in a renewables obligation order (and any provision contained in such an order) is subject to provision contained in a renewables obligation closure order; but this section is not otherwise to be taken as affecting power to make provision in a renewables obligation order of the kind mentioned in subsection (2).
(8) Section 32K applies in relation to a renewables obligation closure order as it applies in relation to a renewables obligation order (and subsection (3) above is not to be taken as limiting the application of that section).
“32LB Renewables obligation closure orders: procedure
(1) Before making a renewables obligation closure order, the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) the Authority,(b) the Council,(c) such generators of electricity from renewable sources as the Secretary of State considers appropriate, and(d) such other persons, if any, as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.(2) The requirement to consult may be satisfied by consultation before, as well as consultation after, the passing of the Energy Act 2013.
(3) A renewables obligation closure order is not to be made unless a draft of the instrument containing it has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.”
(2) In section 32M(1) of EA 1989 (interpretation of sections 32 to 32M)—
(a) for “32L” substitute “32LB”;(b) after the definition of “renewables obligation order” insert—““renewables obligation closure order” is to be construed in accordance with section 32LA;”;
(c) in the definition of “specified”, after “renewables obligation order” insert “or a renewables obligation closure order”.(3) In section 106 of EA 1989 (regulations and orders), in subsection (2)(b) after “32,” insert “32LA,”.
(4) In Article 56(1) of the Energy (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 (S.I. 2003/419 (N.I. 6)) (power to amend Part 7 of that Order to take account of amendments of corresponding Great Britain provisions), the reference to amendments made to sections 32 to 32C of EA 1989 includes a reference to subsections (1) and (2) of this section.”
Baroness Verma
My Lords, Amendment 66 provides the Government with the power to close the renewables obligation to new capacity. As noble Lords know, this closure is planned for 31 March 2017 as part of the transition to contracts for difference. We had previously considered that the renewables obligation could be closed using existing powers within the Electricity Act 1989. However, we have now concluded that a specific power in this Bill will put the closure arrangements on a more reliable and transparent legislative basis.
To ensure that consumers and industry have confidence that closure will take place consistently across the UK, the amendment provides the power for the Secretary of State to close the RO in England, Scotland and Wales. It enables the Northern Ireland Executive to make similar provision for the Northern Ireland renewables obligation. To give industry early certainty on the way in which the Government propose to use this power, we intend to publish this week detailed proposals on RO grace periods for those projects that are delayed due to circumstances beyond their control. These proposals will include a 12-month grace period for projects subject to current investment decisions, giving developers making such decisions this winter substantial reassurance that their investments are not at undue risk from the RO closure date.
Amendments 70 and 107 to 109 support Amendment 66 by making consequential drafting changes. Amendment 110 ensures that the power on RO closure will come into force immediately upon Royal Assent. This allows the secondary legislation for the RO closure to be brought forward quickly, which is important for investor certainty.
In response to the very helpful points made in Committee by my noble friend Lord Stephen and by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, the Government have brought forward Amendments 67 to 69 to clarify the scope of the powers for the fixed-price certificate scheme. Amendment 67 removes the power for regular reviews of support levels under the fixed-price scheme. The Government have no plans to change these support levels as, in a closed and grandfathered scheme, we are unlikely to need to do so. It is therefore appropriate to remove the provision for regular reviews, which implied that we expected to make such changes. However, it is also appropriate to retain a mechanism to change support rates if unexpected developments were to make that essential. I assure noble Lords that the conditions that must be satisfied for a review to take place will be specified in secondary legislation, and subject to statutory consultation and affirmative resolution by Parliament.
Amendment 68 places a requirement on the Secretary of State to exercise certain powers under the fixed-price certificate scheme in a manner which replicates the renewables obligation. This requirement confirms the existing purpose of the clause, in response to concerns raised by the renewables industry and by my noble friend in Committee. The fixed-price scheme will respect our grandfathering policy and will reflect the RO, which has always been our intention. Amendment 69 ensures that the duties on the Secretary of State in relation to the strategy and policy statement do not apply to the fixed-price certificate scheme in Northern Ireland. I hope that noble Lords have found this a helpful explanation of the amendments, and I beg to move.
Baroness Worthington
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for explaining the amendments that she has tabled and spoken to today. I am particularly grateful for new Clause 66, which was something that we debated in Committee.
The issue that was under discussion was that we are, in this Bill, removing the renewables obligation—the policy that has supported renewables and has led to a significant increase in renewable energy and different forms of renewable electricity. The removal of the renewables obligation is significant because it contained an inbuilt incentive on the big six to keep investing in new clean technology. We are now removing that through this Bill. Unfortunately we have not been able to convince the Government to replace any form of obligation into this Bill on either the Government or the suppliers. We are now entering a period where we have to entice investors rather than oblige them. That is an issue that may come back to haunt us—a phrase that has been used before today.
I seek words of reassurance that, in the detailed arrangements that are set out in the regulations that close the RO, the Government will not prescribe a date until they are absolutely certain when the CFDs can come into operation. The issue here is that this Bill is going to be subject to state aid clearance; we need to be absolutely confident that we do not wind down the existing support mechanism before we are completely sure that we have a new support mechanism in its place.
There has been mention of the year 2017 in numerous government consultation documents and documents on this topic. At this stage we cannot be sure that 2017 is the right year. I urge the Minister to make sure that draft regulations are not overly prescriptive and that they give us the flexibility we need to ensure that there is a very good transition from one successful policy to a new untested policy which we hope will deliver but, as has been mentioned on a number of occasions, we still have concerns that it will not—especially for independent generators.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and reassure her that we are of course mindful of all the concerns that she has raised. The RO closure date of 31 March 2017 was chosen in order to allow for that period of parallel running between the RO and the CFD. If we were to extend the RO, we might need to hold a further banding review for the post-2017 banding levels, and generators would not know the post-2017 banding levels until 2015-2016.
Any accreditation after 2017 would receive less than 20 years of RO support. The RO is subject to a 2037 end date. It would be wrong to extend this given that the CFDs are being put into place to provide better value for generators.
Baroness Worthington
I merely point out that these amendments remove the need for banding reviews, so I do not think it is true to say that we cannot have more flexibility over the end date because of banding reviews as these amendments remove the requirement on government to review the banding. I urge the Minister to reconsider that.
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I will speak to the amendments in my name. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Teverson and the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for their amendments and to all those who have contributed to this debate. I remind the House of the policy intent behind the EPS. It is to ensure that no new coal-fired power station is built without CCS, and that it is done in a way that does not undermine the investment we will need in gas generation to keep the lights on at a reasonable cost to consumers.
Amendment 72 seeks to shorten the grandfathering period of the EPS from the end of 2044 to 2029. This shortening by some 15 years will increase uncertainty for gas investors. Without this certainty, we risk deterring or increasing the cost of new gas investments, with the obvious potential consequences for security of supply and costs to consumers. I recognise that 2044 is a long way off but this date is derived from what investors tell us is required. Under the current provisions, new gas plants consented in the later part of this decade and built in the early 2020s would have a little over 20 years of certainty in respect of how the EPS will apply to those assets. That is the amount of time that investors tell us is required to pay back all debt and see a return on equity in the project. In other words, with grandfathering, the EPS is not a barrier to financing new gas generation plants.
Noble Lords may be concerned that we may be locking in high levels of unabated gas generation well into the future that could risk achieving our legally binding 2050 carbon emissions target. I reassure noble Lords that the other measures under our market reforms will ensure that this is not the case and, therefore, that the EPS is consistent with our 2050 decarbonisation target. This is because unabated gas generation will be increasingly displaced by low-carbon generation over time. The Government set out clearly in our gas generation strategy how we expect gas plants’ load factors to decline as low carbon comes on to the system, and how in the very long term we expect it to be economically attractive for gas plants to retrofit carbon capture and storage equipment. Grandfathering the EPS until 2044 will not prevent this from happening. Grandfathering to just 2029 would risk deterring or increasing the cost of the investment in the new gas plants that we need to be built up to 2030.
I turn to Amendments 71 and 73. The approach proposed by my noble friend is very close to the one that we have already adopted. The Government have already committed to a regular three-yearly review of the EPS. The EPS will also be reviewed as part of the statutory review of EMR under Clause 58 of the Bill. The amendments would enable the statutory rate of emissions and the period for which it will apply to be revised very quickly following a review by way of an order. This is an approach that the Government have considered but have concerns about. The ability to revise the EPS very quickly could result in a specific investment hiatus in the run up to a review, due to the uncertainty that the review process introduces. Pre-development costs for power projects can run into tens of millions of pounds, so investors will be very aware of the risk that a quickly implemented decision to revise the EPS could render a project economically unviable, with the financial loss that could result.
That is why we have taken the approach that any future changes to the EPS should be by way of primary legislation. Combined with the three-year period between reviews, this will help to ensure that projects that are already in the planning system—by that stage having already had significant financial commitment—are able to complete that process before any changes to the EPS that would affect their project come into force. However, I recognise the spirit in which my noble friend has brought this amendment and the helpful intent to bring greater certainty to the review process and the process for making any future changes to the EPS. I will reflect on his suggestions with a view to how we might underpin his concerns without creating any unnecessary investment hiatus.
Turning to Amendment 74, the Government’s goal is an orderly transition away from coal to lower-carbon fuels over time in a way which does not create unnecessary costs for consumers. While we do not expect large numbers of coal plants to invest in clean-up equipment, a very small number of our more efficient plant may wish to do so. This amendment is very likely to deter that investment. In this scenario, more coal stations would have their operation constrained, and there could be more stations closing around the end of the decade than might otherwise be the case. This could require more gas plant to be built earlier to fill the gap at greater cost—ultimately, to consumers. Why should we close down our options in this way now when it could put our security of supply at risk and significantly increase costs to consumers? A small number of cleaned-up coal plants could provide greater diversity and bring additional resilience to the electricity system in the coming years, helping to ride any bumps in the road, given the significant investment challenge that we face.
I have also considered carefully the argument that by taking action to drive the closure of all of our coal power stations, we would be giving certainty to investors in new gas generation. While this may be conceptually true, it could also be true to say that you would give certainty to investors in electric cars if you banned all petrol vehicles, but that does not mean it would be a prudent or cost-effective thing to do.
Baroness Worthington
Is the Minister aware that the setting of the EPS on these refurbished plants would not cause them to close but would simply prevent them baseloading? They would still be available for the rest of the decade and the decade beyond to act as backup plant.
Baroness Verma
If the noble Baroness will allow me to continue, I may be able to illustrate further and more clearly the Government’s intentions.
The Bill is about creating the conditions for investment. Intervening in this way and targeting the EPS on a particular set of generators and their assets risks damaging the confidence of investors in the UK as a place to invest in the energy sector. This is precisely the opposite of what the Bill is designed to achieve.
The amendment would also create a direct interplay between the EPS and what is a complex European directive, and I question whether the proposed amendment would be compliant with the UK’s European obligations, especially those under the industrial emissions directive. The way in which European law interacts with our domestic law in this area is complex, and the Government are not in a position to reassure the House today that the amendment would be compliant.
In summary, to accept this amendment would not be consistent with the purpose of the EPS. It is unnecessary and could potentially have negative impacts. Our position is supported by the CBI which said in its Report stage briefing,
“the current EPS proposal should remain unchanged”.
Do not be mistaken, the Government do not want old coal hanging around for ever. We want, through the combined effect of all the measures in this Bill, to create the conditions for an orderly, cost-effective transition away from high-carbon coal through investment in lower carbon alternatives. We want this to be achieved in the way that best protects the consumer.
I turn now to the amendments that stand in my name. They seek to assist the development and commercialisation of carbon capture and storage by providing that a time-limited exemption to the emissions performance standard will apply to carbon capture and storage projects during their commissioning phase. While this has always been the Government’s policy intention, these amendments seek to provide certainty in the Bill. Amendment 73B provides for a three-year exemption period for fossil fuel plant that use a complete CCS system. It also provides that the exemption period may only begin once the complete CCS system is ready for use and is physically in place. The exemption is time-limited and available until the end of 2027. This reflects our view that the exemption is a temporary measure designed to assist the development of CCS and we expect learning from the first projects and those expected quickly to follow to remove the need for an enduring exemption.
Baroness Verma
“(a) section (Introduction of carbon capture and storage: exemption from emissions limit), and(b) ”
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
Lord Teverson
My Lords, I shall speak slightly out of order here, for which I apologise. I tabled a similar amendment in Committee, and I am very pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, has brought this matter forward again.
This is not my noble friend the Minister’s area, or her department’s; it is very much a Defra area. Although I suspect that this Bill is not the best place to do this, I very much hope that Defra will take this area increasingly seriously and that the Government will find a way in which to move the agenda forward.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Judd, for prompting further debate on the setting of targets for the landfilling of waste. Amendment 76 is designed to require the Secretary of State to set out a plan and timeframe, as soon as is practicable, for reducing and eventually eliminating the landfilling of organic waste. It would make it available for renewable energy generation and other appropriate uses, consistent with the waste hierarchy as defined in the Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2011.
The Government support the minimisation of organic waste going into landfill and are sympathetic to the aims of this amendment. When we debated this matter in Committee, I outlined the considerable progress made in minimising organic waste entering landfill by the reduction of food waste and the increase in the number of anaerobic digesters generating energy from food waste. We very much agree with the points that the noble Lord made during that debate about the value of avoiding emissions of greenhouse gases from landfill. Preventing food waste is the most effective approach in carbon-saving terms: compared to landfilling, each tonne of food waste prevented means 4.2 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions are avoided.
We have worked very successfully with industry to reduce supply chain food and packaging waste by nearly 10% over the past three years, while the Waste and Resources Action Programme’s “Love Food Hate Waste” campaign helps consumers to make informed choices on reducing food waste. Household food waste is down by 13% since 2006, and we expect a 20% reduction to be achieved during the three phases of the Courtauld commitment that all the major supermarkets have signed up to. These results show that the voluntary approach can deliver real reductions in waste while allowing businesses to be more efficient and competitive. We want to build on this work with businesses rather than impose targets or restrictions. When food waste cannot be avoided, anaerobic digestion is currently the best option that we have, because it produces renewable energy and a valuable fertiliser. Over the years, we have provided a range of support through WRAP for anaerobic digestion, including £11 million in grant funding.
The substantial increase in the number of anaerobic digesters generating energy from waste continues. We now have more than 100 megawatts of capacity for waste and, together with the long-standing use of anaerobic digestion in the sewage treatment sector, this gives us capacity to generate 1.5 terawatt hours annually. In the Government’s anaerobic digestion strategy to tackle barriers to anaerobic digestion, we estimated that there was a potential to generate 3 terawatt hours to 5 terawatt hours of electricity by 2020. With another 300 megawatts of capacity consented or being built, the industry is well on its way to delivering that potential.
Most of the actions in our anaerobic digestion strategy are now complete. The Government published a second progress report in August and it is now for industry to use the outputs to ensure that the barriers they identified are removed. I hope the noble Lord will be reassured that we can continue to reduce organic waste entering landfill by encouraging food waste prevention and supporting a growing anaerobic digestion industry without introducing further targets to those set out in the EU landfill directive. I also add that current evidence suggests that further statutory targets would have an impact on businesses and local authorities in compliance and monitoring, risking additional cost burdens on business. It is likely that these additional cost burdens faced by industry and local authorities would be passed on to the consumer, which means that consumers could risk facing higher costs if additional statutory landfill bans were introduced.
The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked about reporting on a reduction of landfill. Landfill tax is the main form of reducing organic waste from landfill. Defra is encouraging food waste prevention and encouraging the use of anaerobic digestion; the Environment Agency monitors emissions under the industrial emissions directive. Under the permitting regulations, the Environment Agency also monitors the air quality.
We are mindful of the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Judd, around this sector, but I hope that I have been able to satisfy the noble Lord that the actions that we are taking and our encouragement of industries such as anaerobic digestive generators to make use of waste will help him to decide to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Judd
I thank those who have participated in this short debate. I particularly thank my noble friend on the Front Bench for his rather double-edged intervention. I do not doubt his good will, but I have anxieties about his complacency—and I hope that he forgives me for putting it so bluntly. I am afraid that goes for the Minister as well.
What we have not heard from either Front Bench is any kind of response to what is already in evidence: that those who are responsible for developing the industry in this sphere are already running into difficulty. It is all right coming here and telling us, “We have got a trend and it is going well”; the warning signals are there: they are not attracting the money they should be attracting for investment. The reason for this is uncertainty over key supplies. Surely we do not wait until the whole thing collapses. That is not a very sensible approach to political management. If the warning signs are there, this is the time to take action. I sometimes find it quite extraordinary. In quite a number of countries in Europe it is absolutely taken for granted that this is the way to approach it; for example, Flanders, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Sweden all have compulsory arrangements in this area.
We say that we want to ensure that this change takes place and that we are very glad that it has proved itself as something that can develop. We do not, however, want it to dry up. I ask the Minister to go away from this brief exchange—perhaps I might very gently suggest that my Front Bench does the same—and look at what is actually happening now; not the trends in the past, but what is happening now. It is because of that that action is necessary.
I shall, of course, at this stage withdraw the amendment, but I hope that it is not just a matter of the Minister coming and reporting to my noble friend, “Ah, I’m afraid it has all dried up; it is not happening”. It is a matter of looking at it, saying what the warning signs are and taking action. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Grantchester, and the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for their amendments. I also thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this important debate on the nuclear regulation clauses in the Bill. My noble friends Lord Jenkin and Lord Caithness, who have a great deal of experience and knowledge in these matters, are right to point out that there could be some confusion if we were to take these amendments as they are laid out.
Amendment 76A seeks to expand the ONR’s nuclear safety purposes to include responsibility for the environment. As my noble friend Lord Jenkin pointed out, a regulatory framework is already in place to protect the environment and the relevant agencies—the Environment Agency, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and Natural Resources Wales—are well placed to carry out this role. The interim ONR has a strong working relationship with these regulators, which will continue once the ONR becomes a statutory body.
I understand noble Lords’ interest in the regulation of the environment but it would not be appropriate to expand the ONR’s purposes to overlap with those of established regulators. This would create conflict between two different regulators in the same field and place additional regulatory burdens upon members of the regulated community. As I said earlier, it would create confusion.
Amendment 78B seeks to include a new clause in the Bill concerning the design and construction of nuclear installations. It places a responsibility on the ONR, in conjunction with the Environment Agency, to regulate the design and construction of installations. The amendment also requires that the ONR alone is responsible for ensuring not only the highest technological and safety standards but that the most cost-effective measures are taken.
First, I reassure noble Lords that the regulation of the design and construction of nuclear installations is firmly within the ONR’s purposes and that the organisation, through well established legislation such as the Nuclear Installations Act 1965 and the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 will continue to do this. Secondly, the ONR has a strong working relationship with the Environment Agency in its generic design programme, and this will continue to be in place. To place such a duty in the Bill is therefore unnecessary. It would also be inappropriate to place the ONR under a duty to require the industry to use the most advanced technology available. The role of the ONR is to ensure that the design and construction of nuclear installations meet safety standards. This may involve the use of new or advanced technology. However, the focus is rightly on achieving the highest possible safety standards.
I reassure noble Lords that in undertaking its function with respect to the design and construction of nuclear installations, the ONR will work to ensure that these plants are designed and built not only to be safe but to make use of appropriately advanced and proven technology. It would be grossly inappropriate to place a duty on the safety regulator to regulate the cost efficiency of the construction of these installations. Such a requirement risks diverting the ONR’s attention away from its crucial safety role and placing potentially conflicting requirements on its regulators.
I agree with the sentiment that nuclear installations must be designed, built and operated to deliver value for money. However, I do not believe that this should or can be achieved by placing the safety regulator in the position where it must ensure that this is the case. It is for companies such as EDF to build and operate new nuclear power stations and make decisions about which reactors they use. It is important that any reactor used is safe and effective in its design, and the UK has a strong regulatory regime in place to ensure that that is the case. I understand that we need to have value for consumers, but it is not the role of the ONR to involve itself in the cost of design. The central role for the ONR is to ensure that we have the highest standards of safety in place.
My noble friend Lord Jenkin asked whether the ONR was expecting too much in terms of safety. The ONR expects nuclear installations to reduce risk as far as is reasonably practical. That is an established tenet of health and safety law and the nuclear industry is comfortable working within this regulatory framework.
The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, asked what would happen to the decommissioning costs if an operator became bankrupt. Under the funded decommissioning programme, operators of new nuclear power stations will be required to meet agreements from the Secretary of State to ensure that costs of waste management and decommissioning are met from day one for operators. These arrangements will need to be independent of the operator and will therefore take account of the operator going bankrupt.
Lord Wigley
I am very grateful to the Minister. I have no doubt that there will be a funding process that ensures that there is a pool of money to meet what is foreseen as the decommissioning costs. However, what happens if the standards, as they develop over a lifetime or 20 or 30 years, change in a way that leads to additional costs, or if the economic circumstances of the company disintegrate, for whatever reason, and it is not able to top up that pool as it goes along? What, then, is the safeguard that she and the Government can give to communities that there will be somebody who will step in and not leave them with a nuclear hulk, with all the implications that that could have? Those assurances are needed by the communities that are going to be welcoming these nuclear installations.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I take the noble Lord’s concerns very seriously. It may be helpful if he would allow me to write to him in further detail about the decommissioning plans that we have in place. I will try to reassure him that the independents with these funds in place are away from the operators, and we are keen to make sure that the funds are met. However, since I have not reassured him enough, I think it may be helpful to write to him.
My noble friend the Duke of Montrose asked if the ONR will regulate ongoing operations of power stations. The ONR will continue to regulate and monitor installations as they are operating and beyond. It will continue to work closely with the Environment Agency and, of course, the other, separate agencies of the devolved powers to ensure that the effects of nuclear power generation on the environment are monitored and action taken where necessary.
My noble friend Lord Caithness said that we should have a single design for reactors. The Government’s position has always been clear in that we encourage diversity in reactor design but of course, as with all things, they have to meet the highest standards that we expect of them.
Lord Judd
Frankly, I am a little confused, and I wonder whether the Minister could put me right. She said earlier in her response that of course these things were up to the company to perform as required. Of course, this is all happening as a result of a tough political decision by the Government. We cannot walk away, as a nation or a Government, from our ultimate responsibility. What some of us are concerned about is having systems in place that ensure that companies are indeed performing as expected. In this context, we come back to what we were discussing earlier, that we cannot be certain that everything is being done as it should be because we ourselves say that we have not got that expertise. Can the Minister address these issues? There really is a credibility gap.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I recognise that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, talks about the resources and the capabilities that we require going forward. We are mindful of that, and so is the ONR. There are a range of measures that the ONR is already engaged in to replace a depleted number of experts. I reassure the noble Lord that in saying that it is for companies to build and operate does not detract from the ONR’s main business, which is to ensure that reactors meet the highest standards of safety. We are measuring two things together, including the fact we have got the resources and capabilities in place, which the ONR is very aware of, as are the Government.
This is a historical vacuum that we are filling—the ONR is well aware of it—but there are a great deal of measures that the ONR is taking to ensure that we have those ongoing capabilities coming forward. We know, and take seriously, what the noble Lord is asking.
Lord Judd
I really am grateful to the Minister because she is trying very hard to reassure me and I always find myself being seduced when she is at the Dispatch Box with her arguments. However, I hope that she will agree with me that it is an aspiration on our part; as a nation, we have not got the means to be certain that what we are aspiring to, and exhorting people to do, is in fact being done. That is why it is so incredibly urgent to close this engineering expertise gap and to make sure that the credibility is foolproof.
Baroness Verma
I shall try to seduce the noble Lord better next time, but in the mean time I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, withdraws his amendment.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, I thank the Minister and everybody who has taken part in this debate, and I will answer some of their points. The noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, is clearly right that the trigger for setting up the ONR under a new statutory basis was to take it out of the Civil Service, and a large part of the reason behind that was the need to ensure that we have adequate expertise in this field. It is a field that has been allowed to run down; we are probably not without expertise at this point, but they are ageing. Some of them are tempted elsewhere and it is a global market, and therefore it was important for us to ensure that this happened.
Although that may have been the trigger, we have a wider prospect here of a largely comprehensive regulator having its duties set out in a fair amount of detail in this Bill. It would be wrong to say that it is entirely a reflection of the fact that we potentially face a scarcity of resources. Having said that, it is of course important, as the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, and my noble friend Lord Judd have said, that we address that issue in terms of training provision, investment and our ability to compete for global talent. However, there are wider issues involved here as well.
Objection was made to the reference in the first of these amendments to putting “and environment” in the responsibilities of the ONR. I have no desire—and my previous colleagues at the Environment Agency would no doubt shoot me if I had—to change the boundaries of responsibility between the EA and the ONR. It is important that they are both operating in this area and operating to their own expertise. However, it is also true, if you look at nuclear processes, and some other processes as well, that the hazard involved, the potential risk and the need for minimising that risk is not only to the personnel in the immediate area and those who may be visiting in the immediate population, but also to the environment. If my noble friend Lord Judd lives 12 miles from Sellafield, he will know what I am talking about. If anything were to happen at Sellafield, not only would he and the population in his village be at risk but the totality of the environment of West Cumbria would be at risk as well. It is therefore important that, in approving a particular process or way of dealing with that process, the ONR at least takes cognisance of the fact that there is an environmental dimension. The expertise and regulatory authority may rest with the Environment Agency but the ONR will also have to take that into account. I do not find that confusing; it rounds off what the responsibilities are but does not change the regulatory boundaries.
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
My Lords, the amendments in this group respond to a number of issues, the majority of which were raised in Committee or by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. They are intended to add further clarity to the Bill.
Amendments 77 and 78 have been tabled in response to the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, that we define “associated sites” within this part of the Bill. I thank him for his contributions to the debate and hope that he finds that the proposed definition adds clarity to Part 3.
Amendments 79 to 82 are made in response to the DPRRC’s recommendations that a parliamentary procedure be applied to the production of approved codes of practice. A procedure akin to the negative procedure will now apply to any issuance or amendment of an ONR code, and the Secretary of State’s approval must be granted for the withdrawal of such a code.
Amendment 83 has been tabled to ensure that the provisions on disclosure of “protected information” in Schedule 9 apply to information shared by HMRC under Clause 89 and an inspector appointed by the ONR under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974.
Amendment 84 aligns the definition of “relevant provision” in Schedule 10 with the definition in Clause 73.
Amendments 85 to 87 apply the affirmative resolution procedure to the first set of nuclear regulations that the ONR makes under the Bill, any nuclear regulations which amend the Nuclear Installations Act 1965 or the Nuclear Safeguards Act 2000, and any such regulations that create new offences. This is in response to the recommendations made by the DPRRC, for which the Government are very grateful.
Amendments 88 to 90 will allow the Secretary of State to make transitional provision for the ONR to continue to apply certain regulations under the current regulatory regime until specific regulations are made for the ONR. This includes provision for the conduct of inquiries and the current health and safety fees regime for the nuclear industry. These small amendments will allow us to make a smooth transition to the statutory ONR and will also ensure that the ONR is not significantly reliant on grant in aid for the first few years of its existence.
Amendment 91 clarifies that compensation can be paid by the Secretary of State only in respect of property transfers and not in respect of staff transfer schemes.
Finally, Amendment 92 has been added to allow for regulations to be made jointly under the Energy Bill and the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 where the Energy Bill requires an affirmative resolution procedure to be followed. Where this is the case, we have chosen that the route followed by such regulations should be subject to the subordinate legislation provisions in Clause 104.
I hope that noble Lords are satisfied with my explanation of these amendments and can agree to their inclusion in Part 3 of the Bill. I beg to move.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, I very much welcome these amendments. Obviously, I particularly welcome the ones that relate to my suggestions for the definition of sites. I think that they make a significant improvement and add clarity.
I am sure that were the noble Lord, Lord Roper, here, he would very much appreciate the move in the direction of the Delegated Powers Committee that the Government have taken in introducing a number of these other amendments. It is always right that any Government should not only take note but follow the advice of the Delegated Powers Committee’s recommendations, otherwise they would find themselves in serious trouble. The Minister has managed to avoid that, at least in this part of the Bill.
The transitional provisions in Amendments 88 to 90 also seem sensible. I welcome the amendments and hope that the House will accept them.
Baroness Verma
Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Ind Lab)
My Lords, I support the amendment, especially subsection (3)(b) dealing with,
“representation of employees in health and safety”.
That is so important. I worked at a power station myself. It was not a nuclear power station, but it was a power station. I was also secretary of the local advisory committee. I therefore have some experience of how essential it is that working people are taken into account regarding management of a plant.
Those advisory committees, incidentally, both at national and local level, were set up under the electricity and gas Acts of, I think, 1949 and 1950. There was a statutory duty to provide opportunities for employees to be consulted, at least, not only on matters of health and safety but on the broader workings of power stations and other installations. Indeed, it is necessary for employees to have those powers because it is helpful to management to ensure that working at ground level is safe. Managers cannot know everything that goes on, but most of the employees do. I support the amendment simply and solely because the question of employee consultation should appear somewhere in the Bill.
Baroness Verma
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for this amendment to Part 3 of the Bill, and my noble friend Lord Jenkin for his sensible and measured intervention. Noble Lords will recall that we debated the matter of the make-up of the ONR board in Committee. Amendment 78A would introduce a requirement for the ONR board to have at least one member with experience of, or expertise in, nuclear safety management and one member with experience of, or expertise in, employee health and safety representation.
As currently drafted, the legislation allows the Secretary of State to appoint non-executives with skills and experience that best meet the needs of the ONR. This may include experience or expertise in nuclear safety, which I think is what the phrase “nuclear safety management” means, although this is already provided by the chief nuclear inspector, who is an executive member of the board. This experience or expertise may include that of employee health and safety representation. However, that should be a matter for the Secretary of State to determine over time and, while the matters identified in the amendment are no doubt of great importance, it should be left to the Secretary of State to determine whether that experience would benefit the ONR.
The ONR also requires flexibility to change its skills-mix over time as it develops as an organisation and as the industry it regulates changes. The amendment significantly restricts the flexibility available to the Secretary of State in setting those appointments to only two non-executives. It would be unwise to restrict the ONR’s flexibility in this way. However, the legislation does make provision for a non-executive with security expertise. This role is required to ensure that the ONR’s security interests are carried out in the context of wider national security policies. It is required to prevent nuclear security matters being developed in isolation from the wider, national security agenda. The current security non-executive, for instance, does not have specific nuclear security experience.
Turning to employee representation on the board, as I have explained, the intention is to have a skills-based board, not one made up of representatives. Therefore, just as it would be inappropriate for the board to include a representative of the nuclear industry, it is also inappropriate to mandate a representative of workers.
It is important to remind noble Lords that the Health and Safety Executive, which will retain overall policy responsibility for wider health and safety in Great Britain, including health and safety on nuclear sites, will have a trades union representative on its board. Thus the interests of employees will continue to be represented in the ONR’s wider work on health and safety on nuclear sites. In addition to this, Schedule 7 makes provision for the Health and Safety Executive to appoint one of its members to the ONR board, should it wish to do so, and for the arrangement to be reciprocal. This will also provide for employee interests to be represented on the ONR board. I hope that noble Lords find my explanation reassuring and I hope the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Baroness Verma
(a) ”
Baroness Verma
“Procedure for issue, revision or withdrawal of codes of practice
(1) The ONR may—
(a) issue or revise a code of practice under section 71 only in accordance with subsection (8);(b) withdraw a code of practice under that section only in accordance with subsection (11).(2) Before issuing, or revising or withdrawing, a code of practice, the ONR must submit a proposal to the Secretary of State.
(3) Before submitting a proposal to the Secretary of State the ONR must consult—
(a) any government department or other person that the Secretary of State has directed the ONR to consult, and(b) any other government department or other person that the ONR considers it appropriate to consult,about the proposal.(4) A direction under subsection (3)(a) may be general or may relate to a particular code, or codes of a particular kind.
(5) A proposal for issuing or revising a code of practice must include a draft code of practice or, as the case may be, proposed revisions of a code of practice.
(6) Where the ONR submits a proposal for issuing or revising a code of practice to the Secretary of State, the Secretary of State may approve the draft code of practice, or proposed revisions, as the case may be—
(a) without modification, or(b) with the consent of the ONR, with modifications.(7) If the Secretary of State approves the draft code or proposed revisions, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament the draft code or proposed revisions in the form approved.
(8) Where—
(a) the Secretary of State has laid a draft code or proposed revisions of a code before Parliament, and(b) no negative resolution is made within the 40-day period,the ONR may issue the code in the form of the draft laid before Parliament or, as the case may be, make the proposed revisions in the form so laid.(9) For the purpose of subsection (8)—
(a) a “negative resolution”, in relation to a draft code or proposed revisions, means a resolution of either House of Parliament not to approve the draft code or proposed revisions;(b) the “40-day period”, in relation to a draft of a code or proposed revisions, means the period of 40 days beginning with the day on which the draft is laid before Parliament (or, if it is not laid before each House of Parliament on the same day, the later of the 2 days on which it is laid).(10) For the purposes of calculating the 40-day period, no account is to be taken of any period during which—
(a) Parliament is dissolved or prorogued, or(b) both Houses are adjourned for more than 4 days.(11) Where—
(a) the ONR submits to the Secretary of State a proposal for the withdrawal of a code of practice, and(b) the Secretary of State approves the proposal,it may withdraw the code.(12) The ONR must—
(a) publish any code of practice issued under section 71; (b) when it revises such a code, publish—(i) a notice to that effect, and(ii) a copy of the revised code;(c) when it withdraws such a code, publish a notice to that effect.”
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
(i) ”
Baroness Verma
Baroness Verma
“(1) Section 82 (general provisions as to interpretation and regulations) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection (3)(b), after “subsection” insert “(3A) or”.
(3) After subsection (3) insert—
“(3A) In the case of a statutory instrument which also contains regulations under section 66 of the Energy Act 2013 (nuclear regulations), subsection (3) is subject to section 104 of that Act (subordinate legislation).””