Oral Answers to Questions

Anne-Marie Trevelyan Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

4. What his policy is on the proposals for a precautionary pause on deep-sea mining exploration regulations at the International Seabed Authority Council and Assembly in Kingston, Jamaica.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Anne-Marie Trevelyan)]

UK policy is not to sponsor or support the issuing of any exploitation licences for deep-sea mining unless and until there is sufficient scientific evidence about the potential impact on deep-sea ecosystems, and strong, enforceable environmental regulations, standards and guidelines have been developed by the International Seabed Authority and are in place. That is both a precautionary and a conditional principle that we are following.

[Kerry McCarthy]

The Minister has just read out the written answer that was given fairly recently. As I understand it, that actually means that the Government have rejected calls for a precautionary pause, saying that it is better to be involved in negotiating environmental protections. I have to say that it is a brave politician—or perhaps a foolish one—who takes on Sir David Attenborough, who has said that it is

“beyond reason to consider the destruction of deep sea places”

before we understand them properly. Sir David also says that we should listen to scientists. More than 700 scientists from 44 countries have just supported a precautionary pause, so why won’t the Government?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

The hon. Lady is quite right: David Attenborough’s championing of all things in the natural world gives us as policymakers around the world, and all those in the next generation who are passionate about ensuring that Governments get this right, the enthusiasm and the energy that are required. As I have said, at the moment the policy is not to sponsor or support the issuing of any exploitation licences, precisely because we want to ensure that, using the International Seabed Authority—the organisation that brings all state parties together—we are working together to come up with a policy that will protect and assure the deep seabed.

[James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

One of the seas that may become most vulnerable to deep-sea mining is the Arctic ocean, as the ice retreats and it opens up. We are extremely concerned about what the consequences may be for the environment there, and that is why the Government agreed to a moratorium on fishing in the central Arctic ocean. If they can agree to a moratorium on fishing in the central Arctic ocean, why can they not agree to a temporary “no digging” agreement in respect of deep-sea mining?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

My hon. Friend is, of course, a great champion for and expert on all things to do with the Arctic. If I may, I will ask the Minister, Lord Goldsmith, to get back to my hon. Friend with more detail on that. As I say, the UK continues to take the very firm position that we will engage through the ISA Council to ensure that we get a global position that protects the seabed.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

6. What recent assessment his Department has made of the potential impact of artificial intelligence on diplomacy.

[Sir James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

17. What recent assessment his Department has made of the potential impact of artificial intelligence on diplomacy.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Anne-Marie Trevelyan)]

Artificial intelligence can bring huge economic and social benefits for the UK and our global partners. We are working with key partners to embrace the opportunities of AI, as well as seeking global co-operation on managing the risks. AI will present significant new opportunities to revolutionise how the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office operates, and how it delivers impactful diplomatic and development outcomes across the globe.

[Dr Evans]

Since I delivered my speech written by AI in the House in December, we have moved on to the fourth iteration of ChatGPT, which wrote it. Advancements are happening at such pace that we need to build a regulatory framework to prevent a similar situation to the one that we find ourselves in with the internet: 20 years on, we are trying to police it. What is my right hon. Friend doing to pull the world together around a globally agreed framework on AI?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

I did not have the pleasure of hearing my hon. Friend’s ChatGPT-written speech, but I shall definitely look it up and see just how good it was. On 7 June, the Prime Minister, who was in the USA with President Biden, announced plans for the UK to launch the first global AI safety summit, so that we can do exactly what my hon. Friend says: try to tackle the challenge of agreeing safety measures, in order to evaluate and monitor the most significant risks from AI. The FCDO will engage with key international partners to deliver the Prime Minister’s ambition for the summit.

[Paul Holmes]

It was good to see the Prime Minister visit Washington last week to continue building our relationship with the United States, so that it is the strongest it can be. Will the Minister outline how we will work with the United States to ensure that the AI summit that was agreed to can be a success under UK leadership?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

The Prime Minister and President Biden agreed that the UK and US would take a co-ordinated approach to the opportunities and challenges of the emerging tech that we see around us, such as AI. The UK welcomes early support from the US on the global summit on AI safety, which we will lead. We will work very closely with the US, and of course other international partners, to ensure that we deliver an important step forward on this issue.

[Sir James Duddridge]

AI represents a massive opportunity across a number of sectors, including in the diplomatic sphere, but we must recognise that there are risks. Specifically, what is the Foreign Office doing to counter the potential efforts in this space of Russia and China, which may use artificial intelligence to undermine British interests overseas?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

Global co-operation will be vital to ensure that AI technologies and the rules governing their use are developed in the right way, and are aligned with our values of openness and freedom. The FCDO is working with departments across the UK’s national security ecosystem, including the National Cyber Security Centre, to ensure that we contribute to and benefit from advances in AI, while making sure that we increase our resilience against, and reduce the risk from, any threats that we face. We hope to have as many leading nations as possible involved in the AI summit.

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

The opportunities of AI are global, but so are the threats. It is obvious that significant co-ordination and co-operation in scientific research will be essential. In that context, could the Minister explain how cutting ourselves off from the world’s biggest scientific research programme helps the United Kingdom?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

The hon. Gentleman is right: we absolutely all see the huge potential of AI, but we must not be complacent about the risks. That is why the UK, in leading the AI summit and bringing together all parties from around the world, will ensure that we establish world-leading governance and regulation, so that we can take the opportunities while ensuring public safety and trust.

[Mr Speaker]

Talking of AI, I call Jim Shannon. [Laughter.]

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Never! Humour aside, may I thank the Minister very much for her response? It has been quite positive. Given that artificial intelligence will have a significant impact on international relations, will she provide reassurance that all AI advances must and will be scrutinised to a greater extent, for the safety of the people in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

Mr Speaker, I assume that your reference was to the hon. Member’s great intelligence, because that is what artificial intelligence is demonstrating it can be. It is always a joy to support what he says and answer his questions, and he is exactly right: by working through those international relationships, with the UK driving things and holding that really important leadership role, we want to be able to bring countries together through bilateral engagement, using the many multinational fora out there to really ensure that we are tackling and understanding those threats. We need to provide an environment in which, as AI develops, we can maintain oversight while ensuring that we take advantage of opportunities that will bring economic prosperity. I look at the work that we are doing across the world, and I see how it can assist developing countries to safely leapfrog ahead with technologies in so many ways.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

We have all seen how hybrid warfare has been used against this country and our allies in recent years, and of course AI systems could pose new cyber and information threats as well as providing economic and social opportunities. We have already called on the Government to close gaps in the AI White Paper by introducing proper oversight of models such as GPT-4, and I have raised with Ministers the specific issue of whether access is allowed in the FCDO. I was told that access was not permitted on FCDO corporate systems, but that further guidance was being developed. Has that guidance now been issued, and are FCDO staff currently able to access AI systems on personal devices, for example? What safety protocols are in place?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

If I may, I will write to the hon. Gentleman, because I do not have the latest information on that issue.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

As we have heard, artificial intelligence presents opportunities but also threats, many of which are impossible to quantify at this time. That is as true in AI diplomacy as in anything else, so at the world’s first major AI conference, will the UK Government commit to developing and facilitating AI only with countries that respect human rights and will obey the rules of international law?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

As we bring the world together at the AI summit in the autumn, we want to have discussions with all our international partners about what the rules of the road need to be. The UK Government are absolutely going to be leading on making sure that the facilitation of AI in every sphere of our lives takes place within a framework that provides safety and gives trust to both our citizens and the rest of the world.

[Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)]

7. What steps he is taking to help tackle hunger in east Africa.

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[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

11. What recent steps his Department has taken to secure the release of Jagtar Singh Johal.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Anne-Marie Trevelyan)]

We remain committed to doing what we can to assist Mr Johal. We have raised concerns about his case with the Government of India on over 100 occasions, including his allegations of torture and his right to a fair trial. The case was raised most recently by Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, who is the FCDO’s Minister of State for south Asia, with Indian External Affairs Minister Jaishankar on 29 May.

[Kirsten Oswald]

Last week, Scotland’s First Minister, Humza Yousaf, met Jagtar’s brother Gurpreet and pledged to do everything he can to bring Jaggi home. The First Minister is raising his concerns with the UK and Indian Governments, and the Scottish Government stand ready and eager to work with the FCDO to bring about Jagtar’s safe release. What engagement has the FCDO had with the Scottish Government on this, and will the Minister pledge to work with Scottish Government colleagues to bring Jagtar home to Scotland safely and soon?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

I thank the hon. Lady for demonstrating the Scottish National party’s support for the work the UK Government continue to do in our discussions with the family and when raising this with the Government of India, and we encourage the SNP to continue to have those conversations with us and to support the work we are doing.

[Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)]

Mr Johal is not the only person detained in India who needs the Government’s attention at the moment. Since 2017, a group of human rights defenders known as the BK 16 have been imprisoned. Their only crime has seemingly been to defend the rights and values of some of the poorest and most marginalised people in the country. Father Stan Swamy, aged 84, died in custody with Parkinson’s only a couple of years ago. May I ask what representations the Foreign Office is making on their behalf?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

As I say, we engage broadly with India on the whole range of human rights matters both to help build capacity and to share expertise in these areas, and where we have concerns, we always raise them directly with the Government of India. Lord Ahmad last raised these human rights issues with the Indian Minister for External Affairs in New Delhi at the end of May.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

12. What recent steps he has taken to reach a diplomatic agreement with Mauritius on resettlement and sovereignty of the Chagos islands. [R]

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con)]

15. What assessment he has made of the impact of sanctions on (a) Russia and (b) Belarus.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Anne-Marie Trevelyan)]

Sanctions have isolated Russia and Belarus from western financial markets and services, undermining their long-term growth, starving Russia’s military of key western components and technology and restricting Russia’s ability to fight a modern war. The Government remain committed to increasing pressure on Russia and Belarus and have recently introduced further sanctions targeting Putin and Lukashenko’s regimes.

[Mark Eastwood]

Dewsbury-based Alunet, a supplier of aluminium doors and windows, is being crippled due to unfair competition and sanction circumvention by its Belarus-based former supplier. To help save a £20 million business in my constituency, may I request that my right hon. Friend urgently looks to impose increased tariffs on aluminium products from both Russia and Belarus?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

The import of aluminium originating from Belarus and Russia attracts an additional duty already of 35 percentage points, which we brought in last year. The import of iron and steel products and of some articles of aluminium from Russia is prohibited. The import of iron and steel products from Belarus is also prohibited. Of course, we keep our sanctions under review, as the Foreign Secretary has said. Indeed, following feedback from my hon. Friend and others, on 20 April, we expanded the list of products covered by the import prohibitions on Russian iron and steel. I am happy to discuss with my hon. Friend and his business what more we can think about doing, working with our colleagues at the Department for Business and Trade.

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Last year, the Russian Government introduced a new law that requires all businesses, including foreign businesses that have any footprint in the Russian Federation, to assist in the war in Ukraine. That means that any British businesses that are still doing business in Russia are complicit in the war crimes that Russia is perpetrating against the Ukrainian people. Will the Minister make it absolutely clear that all British businesses should completely and utterly desist from business in Russia immediately?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

One of the extraordinary things we saw only last year when the war broke out was the positive attitude of British businesses and their willingness to take financial pain immediately. They pulled themselves away, not only where we imposed sanctions and prohibitions but beyond that, from Russian markets and activity. We continue to work with businesses, but I take the hon. Gentleman’s point and we will continue enforcement using the tools that we have. We work closely with our business sector, as does the Department for Business and Trade on trading questions, to ensure that that is understood. However, I have always found British businesses to be incredibly positive in stepping beyond what is asked of them in support of Ukraine.

[Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.