Water Industry (Financial Assistance) Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

How would the hon. Gentleman answer the questions that he has just put to the Government?

[Gavin Shuker]

We have been very clear about the measures that we believe the Government could take right now to make a real dent in water prices. We are not going to talk about the long term but do nothing in the short term, which, with the exception of the measures relating to the south-west, this Bill is the very definition of.

The Government must do what only they can do. Their White Paper talks about water for all, but merely offers affordability for some. We will not oppose the Bill this afternoon, but we will table amendments next Wednesday to improve it. Ministers should not deny the existence of the quiet cost of living crisis that is very real for many families across the country. Instinctively, we all feel that water should be affordable. As the Bill progresses, I hope that the Government will accept our amendments to improve it. In doing so, they could help to ensure that there is water for all.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paice]

I cannot be precise on the timing of the legislation, partly for the reasons that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary gave in answer to the previous question. It will take time, which is why we believe we must proceed with the licensing process. We are advised strongly that the hon. Lady’s proposal on new animals would almost certainly fail a judicial challenge, but importing animals is anyway covered by the convention on international trade in endangered species regulations.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to the question of the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long), I congratulate the Government on their announcement today, but will this welcome measure be implemented by the time of the next general election? When will it be implemented? It is important that we have a date.

[Mr Paice]

My hon. Friend knows full well that it is impossible to put an exact date on it, but I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if it was not implemented before the next election.

Water Industry (Financial Assistance) Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

I can give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that water companies are indeed tightening their belts like everybody else. The rise that he described is the one set out by the economic regulator Ofwat, as an indicator of the overall level of inflation, which has not a little to do with the economic mess that we inherited from the previous Administration. However, the important point for the hon. Gentleman is this. He and I share the use of Severn Trent Water’s services, and companies such as ours will be able to introduce a company social tariff, which would assist the most vulnerable in the water area where we reside. Indeed, it would be open to every company to do so, and we have published a consultation about the company social tariff.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Let me congratulate my right hon. Friend on bringing forward this measure and remind her of the cross-party nature of the origins of the Bill and the fact that we have been working towards it across all parties for many years, including under the previous Administration, and not only following the Anna Walker review, as there has clearly been every intention of addressing what has been a clear historic unfairness for South West Water customers.

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend is quite right. Indeed, I look across the Chamber to the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) as a demonstration of the cross-party consensus that existed, which I have acknowledged. The diligence with which south-west constituency Members raised awareness of this historic unfairness is the reason our Government have sought, finally, to do something about it and stop turning a deaf ear to families struggling with that historic legacy, which is what had happened for too long.

There are limits to the help that we can give, because of the vast economic deficit that we inherited. However, we believe that the Government should help to correct the historic inequity that has left water bills in the south-west so markedly out of kilter with those elsewhere in the country. We have therefore committed to funding South West Water to enable it to cut bills by £50 a year for all household customers. The payments will start in April next year and will be maintained to the end of the next spending review period. The £50 reduction will be transparent on customers’ bills and, contrary to the impression that might have been gained, will not provide any sort of benefit to South West Water. It will simply be passported straight through to the householder, who will receive that money in full.

We take pride in helping hard-pressed families in the south-west, but we recognise that the challenge of helping vulnerable customers with water affordability problems is a different and more general problem that can be felt in households anywhere in the country, as the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe) suggested. As constituency MPs, we all know the families that we are talking about. That is why our water White Paper has set out definitively the dual approach that we are taking to tackling affordability issues. First, we are taking measures now to enable water companies to introduce social tariffs and to tackle bad debt. Secondly, over the longer term, we are introducing a package of reforms to increase competition and innovation in the industry that will help to keep bills down and improve customer service.

We consulted recently on how water companies could design social tariffs to reduce the bills of those who would otherwise struggle to pay in full. We will publish final guidance in the spring to enable companies to bring forward social tariffs in their charging schemes from 2013. Water companies’ responses to the consultation have shown their commitment to addressing customers’ affordability problems. Many already have schemes in place, such as trust funds, matched payment schemes, referrals to benefits advice and some existing social tariffs, but we have to be realistic in acknowledging that bad debt is also a serious problem in the water industry.

Bad debt adds an average of £15 to all paying customers’ bills, and this Government are taking action to address that. We are consulting on measures to reduce bad debt, and we are considering two options. The first is a regulatory measure that would make landlords liable for the water charges for their tenants’ properties if they failed to supply details of those tenants to the water company. However, we are mindful that the measure has to be proportionate and easily administered, so we are also consulting on whether we should ask landlords to share their tenants’ details with water companies voluntarily.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mary Creagh]

I am sure that the Secretary of State will have digested that point from my right hon. Friend.

This is an orphan Bill, which is decoupled from the long-term reforms required to tackle climate change and keep water affordable. Why does the Bill, which affects two areas—the south-west and London—not mention those two areas? Is it because that would make it a hybrid Bill, which would require full and proper scrutiny in the other place? Is it because by not mentioning those two areas and drawing the Bill widely, the Secretary of State is able to define it as a money Bill, which means that it receives only a cursory one day’s scrutiny in the other place? What possible reason could she have to fear their lordships’ scrutiny of this worthy and timely Bill? We can surmise that she is keen to get her short Bill through Parliament—an endeavour that does not seem to have been properly communicated by the Whips to her own Back Benchers, if today’s sudden change of business is anything to go by.

[Andrew George]

I note that the hon. Lady described the Bill as worthy and timely. I am curious about her line. She says that £50 per household in the south-west is insufficient; I would like to know whether she and her party propose offering more to the south-west, and how that would be funded. Secondly, in view of the line that she is taking, is she suggesting that she and her party will vote against the Bill today?

[Mary Creagh]

I am happy to say that we will not vote against the Bill. If the hon. Gentleman waits, I will come on to some of the wider affordability issues and will, I hope, answer some of his questions on the wider issues.

The next unanswered question is: why are we debating the Bill now? We know that the Government ran out of meaningful new legislative business about two months ago, and the House has been surviving on thin rations—a meagre diet of one-line-Whip business and Back-Bench business debates, valuable though they are. There was no new Government legislation, but suddenly—boom!—out of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, a Department whose Ministers are the embodiment of clout, grip and competence, spurted a sudden, short water Bill, born of the realisation that if the Department has lost its slot in May’s Queen’s Speech, it had better deliver on the Chancellor’s promises to the south-west and his coalition partners. That happened just six short weeks before the end of one of the longest parliamentary Sessions ever held. Clearly, such a masterstroke of parliamentary planning and timing could have been confected only by the Department that brought us the forest sell-off.

Labour in government corrected many of the injustices of water privatisation. As I said, in 2000 we banned water companies from cutting off the water supply of homes, schools and hospitals for non-payment. It is extraordinary to think that legislators would allow provisions that let hospitals—care givers and providers of sanitation—be cut off for non-payment of bills. We allowed for compulsory metering in areas of scarcity, and a more muscular Ofwat, holding the water companies to account, has emerged in recent years.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is always a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick). As a former fireman, he demonstrates his passion for and knowledge of that subject. The last two contributions have shown how wide-ranging this debate can be—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I have been thanked for my indulgence, but let us just say that a conversation went on about how relevant some of the contributions were. Please do not test my patience too much.

[Andrew George]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was in no way implying any criticism of your great office, or of the way in which you apply the rules to our debates. I have carefully cut out of my speech all the parts referring to swimming and surfing in the waters of the south-west, and any other matters that you might consider a further indulgence.

As a Member of Parliament from the south-west, it is my primary objective to address the two issues that represent the primary purpose of this three-clause Bill before us today. Having said that, the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse spoke about the associated issue of fire sprinklers, which I hope will be dealt with elsewhere. Similarly, I know that the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) never misses the opportunity to address the important matter of flood defences in her constituency.

I come to this debate to congratulate the Government warmly on what they are achieving through this measure, particularly by the clause that is intended, although not by name, to benefit or at least address an unfairness to the water bill payers of South West Water that has gone on for 22 years. The unfairness has been identified across all parties and by the Anna Walker review, which was commissioned by the previous Government in August 2008 and concluded in December 2009—just before the last general election. It highlighted the need to address this significant and long-standing unfairness.

I welcomed the comments of the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh). She clearly enters into debates in a full-blooded manner in a debating Chamber that often becomes extremely tribal. At certain points in the debate, I was not sure whether Labour Members were going to be encouraged to vote against the Bill. Following my intervention on the hon. Lady, however, she made it clear that she and her hon. Friends would support the Bill. That will resonate through the House, following what is, after all, a cross-party consensus on this issue. She raised legitimate questions about problems of affordability—across the country generally, but particularly for the customers of South West Water—that need to be looked at further. I hope that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary will deal with some of those issues in his response. I hope, too, that legislation will be forthcoming soon after the next Queen’s Speech so that we can further meet concerns about affordability issues.

Speaking about how South West Water operates itself, I have in the past called it an ethics-free and risk-free money extortion system. I know that is rather strong language; it goes back primarily to the days when Bill Fraser was the chief executive of South West Water. His management of the business in a rather belligerent and Thatcherite style has largely been remedied by both his successors, Bob Baty and Chris Loughlin. With Chris Loughlin and his board of directors addressing the legacy, it might no longer be appropriate to describe the company as ethics-free. Chris Loughlin has managed the company well and genuinely wants to address the concerns about water affordability. I take my hat off to him and his board members for their efforts.

That said, one thing we cannot escape from is the fact that all water companies—certainly including South West Water—have a monopoly within their areas. There is effectively no competition at all. Significant questions have been raised about the effectiveness of Ofwat as a regulator. It is supposed to establish the “K” factor every few years to restrain the levering up of water bills, but water companies are still able almost to predict the end-of-year dividends at the beginning of each financial year.

[Sheryll Murray]

Does my hon. Friend agree that about 20,000 households in the south-west could reduce their bills by about £350 to £400 if they took up the option of water meters, and that many of those households include the elderly and the most vulnerable?

[Andrew George]

I absolutely agree that there are still many customers of South West Water who could enjoy lower bills as a result of transferring to water meters. Ultimately, however, the unit charges are bound to have to increase once all households switch to water meters. Unmetered households are currently charged significantly more than metered households, so when companies plan for the future it will simply not be possible for them to maintain the same level of profitability and dividend to their shareholders if they continue to charge at the current rate.

The point that my hon. Friend makes is extremely valid, but I must also say that I have taken up issues with South West Water, as I know other hon. Members have done. One such issue relates to customers living in sheltered accommodation or in houses in multiple occupation where they have single unmetered bills but do not have the benefit of being able to convert their property on to a meter because of the circumstances in which they live. In those circumstances South West Water has to be asked for what is known as an “assessed charge”, which often results in those people—inevitably, they are vulnerable households—having their water bill halved or significantly reduced to below that level. So there is further work to do to address the problems of water affordability for those living in households that cannot convert from unmetered to metered properties. I have asked South West Water if they would, as a default, automatically offer the assessed charge to those living in such accommodation, rather than their having to trigger it by requesting it. That is an important point.

[Miss McIntosh]

May I return to the hon. Gentleman’s comment about almost being able to predict the dividend at the beginning of the year? Water companies do not rely solely on water bills for their income and investment. Given that they are now viewed as a fairly reliable investment for pension and insurance funds, is it not a good thing that their dividend is fairly stable?

[Andrew George]

I certainly would not wish to denigrate or diminish in any way the importance of successful British companies. Where a company provides a good basis for investors, I celebrate that, along with others. I am simply commenting on the reality of the situation of water companies in relation to all other private companies, which ply their trade in a much more risky environment. That is simply a matter of fact, not of debate.

[Simon Hughes]

There is a link between the experience of colleagues and constituents in the south-west and that of people in the Thames area, because Kemble used to own South West Water and it now owns Thames Water. When it owned South West Water the bills were significantly high and there were a lot of complaints. People are fearful that some of the practices it used then, which included paying out dividends greater than its income—that seems to be not about saving the capital—might be being applied at the moment.

[Andrew George]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that intervention.

On the question of the high water bills in the south-west, let me put on record the fact that in 2010-11, bills for South West Water customers were, on average, £486, which is certainly higher than the average bills in the rest of the country, which were £339. Unmetered customers had much higher bills, of course, at a rate of £721, whereas bills for metered customers in the south-west were £394 on average. As I and others have said, that was the focus of the Anna Walker inquiry.

[Mr Offord]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this is about not only the cost of water bills in the south-west but the fact that the average weekly wage is about 30% lower than that in parts of the south-east and London?

[Andrew George]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Cornwall has been at the bottom of the earnings league table pretty much since records began. It has significantly higher water bills than anywhere else in the country, high levels of unemployment in some parts, as well as dependence on benefit, pensioner households and so on, and if we add to that the low average incomes across the households in the area, it is inevitable that in many households people will pay more than 3% of their income to meet their water bills.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said earlier, the problem is partly caused by a lower level of infrastructure at the time of privatisation in the early ’90s and by the fact that the south-west has been significantly more burdened by the costs of the bathing water directive than any other region in the country. I have drawn the same parallel as others. The bathing waters around the Cornish and south-west coast are a national asset yet only 3% of the population must pay for the cost of cleaning up. The cost is very high, because many outfalls must all be dealt with very expensively, which is the primary cause of the excessive bills across the south-west. The general populace enjoy other national assets, such as the museums and galleries of London, and it is the general taxpayer who pays for them. We do not ask just London taxpayers to pay for the National Gallery, the British Museum and the other museums—we, as a country, contribute and that is an important parallel.

There has been a long-standing campaign and the Anna Walker review was rather belated but at least welcome and took us a long way down that road. I congratulate the previous Government for that and pay tribute, as other hon. Members have, to Linda Gilroy, a former Member of this House who contributed a great deal towards advancing the case for fairness in the billing of water customers, particularly in the south-west. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) for calling a debate on 14 June 2010, which can be found at column 710 of Hansard, and my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders) for doing so on 9 March 2011.

There are issues that need to be addressed. To sum up—I am aware that I have taken as much time as the previous speakers—I hope the Minister will address my questions. Clause 1(3) concerns the discretion of the Secretary of State in determining which customers within any particular water company area might benefit from the intervention of the Secretary of State to vary the bills or make a contribution, and my question, which relates back to the announcement of the payment of £50 per household in last year’s autumn statement, concerns how a household will be defined.

In my area, a large number of households run bed-and-breakfast facilities, guest houses and other businesses, and they are businesses for the purposes of South West Water’s billing structure. However, there are also many wealthy second home owners who have water meters and pay virtually nothing towards the very high costs of getting water to their properties, which are often very remote—on cliffs and so on—and taking away their sewage. Often, they let their properties at very high prices and make a lot of money, but they are not considered to be businesses and so they will get the benefit of the reduction of £50 per household. That clear and evident unfairness is one of many, but I shall not bore the House with a raft of examples regarding this issue of how households should be defined. If we are addressing issues of vulnerability and affordability amongst water rate payers, we need to be very careful how we define households.

The £50 per household reduction is a rather blunt instrument. Yes, it is efficient and it means that the administrative costs will, one hopes, be less than would have been the case with a more elegant and sophisticated measure for targeting vulnerable households. However, because of the problems with adopting a WaterSure system across the south-west and because of the evident unwillingness of water rate payers in the south-west to make any further contribution to a scheme that would benefit vulnerable households, it is unlikely that those households will be able to benefit from any application of a regionally based WaterSure system. I therefore urge my hon. Friend the Minister to look again at whether we can resurrect any form of a national WaterSure system. Clearly, we will go back to South West Water and talk to it again about how it might address the issue of particularly vulnerable households.

A number of matters need to be addressed and I am sorry that I have not addressed those concerning London, but I know they will be addressed by many other people. I look forward to hearing my hon. Friend’s reply and his responses to the questions that have been raised.

Gangmasters Licensing Authority

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Ian Murray]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. He has a private Member’s Bill on extending the GLA’s remit to construction workers, but because it is low down on the Order Paper, it will never be passed. I hope that the Minister will say in his response whether the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will examine the possibility of extending the GLA to cover other areas. The forestry and agricultural industries are becoming more regulated, gangmasters are becoming licensed, and the GLA has been successful, but there has been a migration of exploited labour into other parts of industry. I may mention that later.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very good case. I was co-sponsor of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Bill 2004 with the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan), who should be congratulated. Would he add to the many benefits he has listed as having resulted from the GLA’s introduction those relating to farmers? They feel much more reassured that they are dealing with gangmasters on a sound basis. Also, the many legitimate gangmaster operations in existence know that the GLA is driving the illegal trade out of business altogether.

[Ian Murray]

I am grateful for that intervention and I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on co-sponsoring the 2004 Bill. The point he makes is critical. This is not just about protecting vulnerable and exploited workers; it is about cleaning up supply chains. That feeds right into the argument about good business being rewarded for doing good things, and the need to support initiatives that get rid of businesses doing bad things. It is crucial to recognise that it is good for good businesses to be involved in initiatives such as the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. That emphasises the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr Hamilton) about potentially extending the GLA to other areas, and clearing up the supply chains to which the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) referred.

The GLA has discovered a number of cases where trafficking for financial benefit, linked directly or indirectly to labour exploitation, is to the fore. Some of the activity appears to have direct links to the targeting of vulnerable people in homeless refuges in the host country, and to persons of interest to the police in their host country. Workers are sometimes left in a no man’s land: they have no means of supporting themselves in the UK, but are unable or unwilling to go home. They are exploited; to work in a promised land, they pay up-front fees that they are never likely to be able to repay.

I have some examples that give the issues a human face. The GLA has discovered workers living in squalid accommodation; the rent is often high—above the market rate—and deducted at source. One person described 12 workers living in a caravan with no water, sanitation, lighting, heating or cooking facilities. Another talked about 30 workers who lived in a structurally dangerous two-bedroom house; they were subject to summary eviction by men wielding baseball bats if they complained.

Transport problems were an issue. Those problems included unreasonable wage deductions for transport, and unsafe vehicles. The GLA uncovered the case of a worker who lost a leg when an unroadworthy van was involved in an accident. The gangmaster’s licence was revoked, and he could no longer provide farm labourers, but two weeks later he was back in business, supplying builders’ labourers. That highlights the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian.

An eastern European worker discovered on a farm in Cornwall was promised a job in Scotland, but was then sold to another gangmaster. Having worked all week for £5, they were told that they owed the gangmaster £6.17 in costs, which of course they did not have. They were obliged to keep working to pay the debt, which continued to accrue, resulting in bonded labour.

Those are just some of the human examples of what happens in an unregulated trade, but the GLA is identifying exploited workers in contemporary slavery and is able to do something about it. The question that people will ask is: are UK companies involved? The Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that some, possibly many, UK-based companies rely on supply chains that involve the use of slave labour, both in the UK and abroad. The complex chains of subcontracting through a variety of labour agency networks, both in the UK and abroad, mean that many companies are unaware of, or can deny knowledge of, the conditions under which their goods are produced.

The UK supply chain is inherently based on a low-cost, labour-intensive business model. The GLA identified that price pressures from competition have led to a culture where gangmasters and labour users will exploit the most vulnerable link in the chain—the worker—to protect their profits. They will often accept a charge rate that, realistically, does not allow the labour provider to meet legal requirements. Workers are being paid below the national minimum wage so that labour providers are able to make a meagre profit by charging an unrealistically low amount.

The GLA has sought to tackle this insidious problem by developing a protocol with supermarkets and suppliers—a point was made by the hon. Member for St Ives about clearing up supply chains—that allows for the exchange of information. It has garnered the support of the majority of key retailers in the food sector. By working in partnership with supermarkets—that is key—the GLA has been able to encourage them to deal with allegations of exploitation in their supply chain, and to establish an audit standard for labour supply; that allows them to clear up their supply chain. The protocol is supported by every major supermarket in the UK. It is welcomed by them as a way to allow them to monitor their supply chains.

What is the future of the GLA? I welcome Ministers’ announcement that they do not intend to abolish it. Nevertheless, the Government are considering limiting its role, and the role of licensing remains under review. The Minister needs to be crystal clear that there will be no watering down of the GLA and its powers. This is not about counting paper clips, but saving lives, preventing exploitation, promoting clean supply chains, exposing organised criminal activity and undermining human trafficking—there could be no greater cause. The GLA is especially important in difficult economic times when labour supply exceeds demand and the pressures on work increase.

[Ian Murray]

The Minister has heard that challenge on health and safety. The red tape challenge website, which I am sure every hon. Member has dipped into and had a look at, is wide-ranging. The first line of every category, including the Equality Act 2010 and health and safety legislation, poses the question: “Should this be scrapped?”. I appreciate that it is a consultation, and that the Government are looking for ideas and views on the current make-up of regulation, but there is no greater challenge than maintaining health and safety regulations to protect workers whose lives or safety may be at risk. I hope the Minister will tell us categorically that some of the questions in the red tape challenge are challenges to seek answers, rather than an overall strategy to diminish workers’ rights and health and safety regulation.

To date, the Government have been rhetorical about the dilution of workers’ rights, but a statutory instrument changing the unfair dismissal period has been laid before Parliament and will come into effect in the next few weeks. There have been leaked reports from No. 10 Downing street about making it easier to fire, rather than hire, people. There is anti-regulation sentiment and rhetoric coming out of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, with its “one in, one out” policy on regulation. There is real concern that some of the enforcement actions that are critical for protecting vulnerable workers and good businesses through such authorities as the GLA are being challenged.

The Macdonald report suggested an end to gangmaster licensing completely, and a move to a system of self-regulation combined with “earned recognition”. It also suggested that the GLA should change from being a heavy enforcement body to a light-touch advisory body. I am not sure that anyone would deny earned recognition to good businesses, supply chains and supermarkets who are working in partnership with the GLA, and to the good farmers who want supply chains cleaned up. The problem is that all earned recognition does is divert attention away from where gangmasters may infiltrate in the future.

There is significant confusion about the future, what with the red tape challenge and what has been termed the star chamber process. That was highlighted by the Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, who said initially:

“I am pleased to say that the need for the GLA to enforce protections for vulnerable workers in its sectors”,

which is crucial,

“was endorsed by the red tape challenge ministerial star chamber, although it recognised that the GLA needed to better target non-compliant operators and reduce burdens on the compliant. The GLA will of course continue to be monitored under the Government’s ongoing reviews of public bodies and enforcement agencies.”

That is not particularly clear. In a later exchange on the same question, he says of the star chamber process and the red tape challenge:

“From my knowledge of star chambers…they are where conflicting views which may need to be resolved are discussed in an informal way. That is exactly how the star chamber has functioned in this way.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 12 December 2011; Vol. 733, c. 993 and c. 995.]

I hope that the Minister will clear up some of the confusion this morning on the Government’s view of the GLA, and on the perceived and reported fight between the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and BIS on the where the GLA should sit. It is right that it sits with DEFRA in its current guise. It should not be transferred to a Department that is considering deregulation and stripping out the safeguards put in place by the GLA.

[Andrew George]

On that point, the hon. Gentleman appears to be contradicting himself. On the one hand, he is saying that the GLA should be extended to the construction trade and other trades. On the other hand, he is saying that it should remain in DEFRA. If it goes beyond the parameters of the operation of DEFRA, does he not agree that it would be appropriate to rest the body in another Government Department?

[Ian Murray]

I was about to come to that. I agree that that seems inherently contradictory, but the key fact about the Gangmasters Licensing Authority sitting in DEFRA is that it is there to do a particular job, which it is doing rather well. Moving the GLA from DEFRA to BIS would be putting it into a Department that is looking at deregulation and is running the red tape challenge. A previous Under-Secretary at BIS—now the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change—has made clear remarks about where the GLA should sit and what its function should be. Indeed, he initiated the Macdonald report, which recommended a light-touch regulatory approach. If the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) commits the Department at least to examining the extension of the powers of the GLA, there might be an argument about which Department it would sit in, but my point is that in this particular confusion, DEFRA is the best place for the GLA to sit. Moving it to BIS would merely be an act of deregulation, rather than showing support for an organisation that is prone to be hugely successful.

Will the Minister at least examine the possibility of not diluting the GLA, but extending it to other areas? We have heard about similar problems of exploitation and unlawful practices in construction, the social care sector and hospitality. There is evidence that the limited GLA remit has led to the displacement of rogue operators from GLA sectors into other parts of the labour market—the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian. The Trades Union Congress has identified a strong case for extending the GLA licensing scheme, a view shared by the Select Committee on Home Affairs in its report on “The Trade in Human Beings” back in 2009.

There is also support for an extension to the GLA’s remit in the business community; that is critical to where the GLA currently sits in the Government’s thinking. Nearly three quarters of the gangmasters who responded to the 2008 survey by Liverpool and Sheffield universities, which I mentioned, said that the GLA scheme should be extended to other sectors—either to all sectors, or especially to the construction and hospitality sectors. That is significant, because many gangmasters operate in other sectors that are not subject to GLA regulation, most notably non-food manufacturing, distribution, cleaning and construction. Good business wants a level playing field, which can be delivered only by dealing with this contemporary slavery.

Recently, controversy has surrounded areas that the GLA has looked at, such as dairy farming, but the courts have recognised that, again, it is clearing up the supply chains. There is also a strong view that forestry should be removed from the GLA remit, but does that not provide a reason to allow the GLA to follow the evidence of gangmasters into any industry? I pose that question to the Minister. That way, gangmasters, rather than the industry, become the issue. Let the evidence follow the crime, if the evidence is there to investigate.

Food Prices and Food Poverty

Andrew George Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mary Creagh]

Yes, it is slightly bizarre that that should be the case. I do not understand why, having battled so hard to secure minimum standards across the sector, the Secretary of State should think it acceptable to water them down, unless it is about saving money in pursuit of an ideological objective, but that could surely never be the Government’s intention.

I have mentioned “Richard Corrigan on Hunger” and the hospitalisation of children. People also talk in that programme about lunch boxes containing last night’s cold chips and ketchup. In government, we set up the School Food Trust, whose latest research shows that the average local authority-catered school dinner has gone up by 5p in the past year to £1.88 in primary schools, and by 4p to £1.98 in secondary schools. Councils are forced to charge more as their Government funding has been cut. We have heard today about councils that are doing their best to prioritise children’s nutrition. Those price rises could force parents to take their children out of school-meal provision and make do with a lunch box. If someone has three children who do not qualify for free school meals, £6 a day or £30 a week is an awful lot of money to find.

Food will be a defining issue for this century. The price spike in food commodities in 2008 showed that the era of cheap food may not be with us much longer. Increases in commodity prices—oil, fertiliser and pesticides—all contributed to year-on-year food price inflation of 6% last September: the second-highest increase in the EU, apart from Hungary. That 6% added £233 to the food bill of a family of two adults and two children. Food inflation, currently at 4%, remains higher than most pay rises that people will receive this year. As prices rise, people are eating less beef, lamb and fish, and more bacon. People are shopping around and trading down, and there is less supermarket loyalty. Figures from DEFRA reveal a 30% fall in the consumption of fresh fruit and veg by the poorest fifth of families since 2006. Those families are eating just 2.7 of their five-a-day fruit and veg.

We need a better understanding of what is driving up food prices, and how costs and risk are transferred across the supply chain. However, shopping is confusing and labels do not always show the true costs. Supermarkets are not required legally to show the unit cost on special offers, so they give the price pre-discount, which makes it impossible to compare prices on the shelf; or they give the price per unit of fruit, rather than by 100 grams, making comparisons impossible. We want supermarkets to be more transparent in their labelling to ensure that shoppers get the best deal. We want them to help people to eat healthily. Our traffic light system was rejected by significant players in the food industry, who have turned their back on what consumers want and need to make healthy choices.

We want a fair and competitive supply chain for growers, processors and retailers. The Competition Commission in 2008 found that there was an adverse effect on competition from unfair supply chain practices. It recommended that supermarkets with a turnover of more than £1 billion a year should be prevented from imposing retrospective discounts and from changing terms and conditions for suppliers. That leads to an unfair spread of risk and cost down the grocery supply chain, and to short-termism in relationships. [Interruption.] I thought I heard a phantom sedentary intervention, but that is not the case. We wanted a voluntary approach, but the supermarkets were unable to agree a way forward. That is why Labour in government secured cross-party agreement for a groceries code ombudsman to ensure a fair deal for farmers and producers. This Government’s delays and procrastination mean that the adjudicator will probably not be up and running until 2014-15.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I note that the motion expresses dismay at the Government’s delay, yet it asks for the groceries code adjudicator to be introduced in the next Parliament, rather than in the next parliamentary year, which I assume is a drafting error. Leaving that aside, given the fact that the first Competition Commission report was in 2000, and the Competition Commission report to which the hon. Lady refers was completed in 2008, what word other than “dismay” would she use to describe the Labour Government’s response to that report?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. May I remind everyone in the Chamber that the debate ends at 7 pm? There is already a time limit of eight minutes on Back-Bench speeches. Interventions should therefore be short, and I hope opening speeches will not be overly long.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Spelman]

As I am sure Opposition Front Benchers are aware, the lead Department on the grocery code adjudicator, both for the Government and for the Opposition, is of course the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, but we have been very clear as a Government that we are fully committed to introducing the adjudicator as soon as possible.

Free and fair competition is the key to a healthy market, and it is right that the adjudicator should make sure the market is working in the best long-term interests of consumers. In this Session, we published a draft Bill to allow pre-legislative scrutiny. It was a popular measure, welcomed on both sides of the House, and as the Leader of the House said on 15 December 2011:

“There will be a second Session of this Parliament, and the Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill is a strong candidate for consideration as part of it.”—[Official Report, 15 December 2011; Vol. 537, c. 937.]

So there is no delay, but it has to be done right.

It is important to bear it in mind that, overall, the Competition Commission found that retailers are providing a good deal for their customers, and they should not be prevented from securing the best deals and passing the benefits on to their customers, but, similarly, we are clear that they should be required to treat their suppliers lawfully and fairly.

During pre-legislative scrutiny, the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee suggested that third parties should be allowed to lodge complaints. Our position remains that it is more appropriate for complaints to be lodged directly or indirectly by suppliers, but we are open to considering further arguments on extending the range of those who can trigger an investigation. That is the benefit of pre-legislative scrutiny. We recognise that third parties, including trade associations, have a valuable role to play, so the adjudicator will be fully free to gather evidence from trade associations once an investigation has begun.

The draft Bill provides the adjudicator with the power to name and shame retailers that are in breach of the code, and we believe that, in a highly competitive market, retailers will not risk reputational damage from unacceptable behaviour towards suppliers. If negative publicity proves insufficient, however, the draft Bill contains a reserve power for the adjudicator to impose financial penalties, subject to an order made by the Business Secretary but without the need for primary legislation.

I hope the House agrees, therefore, that these measures represent significantly more progress than was made under the previous Government and should be generally welcomed.

[Andrew George]

It has been suggested, in particular during the intervention by the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), that the adjudicator would introduce inflation to the food market, but the Competition Commission itself, which is after all independent on the issue, made the situation quite clear, stating that

“if unchecked, these practices”—

the practices that the Secretary of State and others have described—

“would ultimately have a detrimental effect on consumers.”

It is quite clear that they would have a detrimental effect on prices for consumers.

[Mrs Spelman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. The Competition Commission clearly keeps the practices of retailers under scrutiny and sees a benefit in independent adjudication of fairness in the supply chain.

I shall turn to other points in the motion. The hon. Member for Wakefield espouses the virtues of the Healthy Start programme, which this Government have continued, and no one will argue with the role of food banks, which are an excellent example of the big society. They are not new, as Churches have been redistributing food in that way down the decades, and we are four-square behind organisations such as FareShare, which do excellent work in the field.

In making it easier for shoppers, this Government have wasted absolutely no time in working with the food industry to simplify food date labelling. Last autumn I made it clear that one date should appear on the label, so that there is no confusion between “use by”, “use before”, “display until” or “store until”. There should be one date: if the product is perishable, the label should state “use by”, for food safety; if it is not, the label should state “best before”. In that way, we can certainly help people to reduce the amount of food that goes to waste.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I shall do my very best, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am the first Liberal Democrat speaker, and I regret the fact that we have only six minutes. Of course, I am not criticising you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

There are no more Liberals here.

[Andrew George]

The hon. Gentleman has only just arrived in the Chamber, so I advise him not to start.

I welcome the fact that the Opposition have introduced this important debate, the full title of which is, “Rising Food Prices and Food Poverty”. That is appropriate, although I notice that the motion is rather narrow, and refers primarily to the groceries code adjudicator. Following my intervention on the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh), I urge the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), when he replies to the debate, to ensure that the Opposition reflect carefully on the drafting error in the motion, which sends an unhelpful message to those of us who believe that the primary message of today’s debate concerns the speed of the introduction of the groceries code adjudicator. I urge him to withdraw the motion when he has an opportunity to do so. It is vital that we send a strong, clear message through our debate.

I acknowledge the point that many Members have made about the impact of food poverty and the fact that people have to choose between paying their rent and eating, or between paying their heating bill and eating. Nowhere does that apply more than in my constituency, which has been at the bottom of the earnings league table for years, pretty much since records began. Tragically and regrettably, a food bank is required in Penzance, which is strictly managed by an excellent team of volunteers led by David Mann, Brenda Fox and others, who do very good work. They consider it a matter of enormous regret that such things are needed.

I welcome other topics raised by the hon. Member for Wakefield, including the importance of maintaining regulation by the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and ensuring that agricultural workers are properly remunerated for their work. She expressed dismay at the failure to introduce the grocery code adjudicator. I remind her of the dismay that many of us felt at the failure of the previous Government to act in this area. However, those who have followed the debate over many years recognise that this is a matter on which there is cross-party consensus.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), who was mentioned earlier, the former Member for Stroud, David Drew, who did some excellent work in this area, the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski), the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who is the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning—Members across all parties—have recognised that the abuse of power by the supermarkets is unacceptable.

In its 2008 report the Competition Commission recognised that there was a climate of fear in the supply chain. That had been identified by the Office of Fair Trading report in 2004, when it reviewed the failure of the then supermarket code of practice and the urgent need for a grocery supply code of practice. As a result of the Competition Commission’s work, that has been in place since February 2010, but it is a little like a game of rugby without a referee. It is all very well having the rules in place, but if there is no one to enforce them, we do not know that rampant abuses of power are not occurring within the supermarket sector.

I declare an involvement as the chair of the Grocery Market Action Group, which includes representatives from the National Farmers Union, Friends of the Earth, the Association of Convenience Stores, the British Brands Group and other organisations. Since 2006 we have been providing evidence to the Competition Commission and pushing for an adjudicator. We have made the point that we need a supermarket watchdog that has proactive powers, can take information anonymously, can receive third-party and trade association evidence, and follow that through to an inquiry. Of course it is important that an adjudicator should not be able to go on fishing expeditions and waste the time and resources of supermarkets and their suppliers in undertaking pointless inquiries. That will sort itself out over time.

[Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD)]

I know that my hon. Friend has been looking into the matter for some years. What does he consider to be the initial priorities of the adjudicator, once that office is established?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The objectives in the draft Bill are helpful. However, the importance of speed should be emphasised. Most of the framework is in the Bill, and I would be prepared to have it put in place early, even if we failed to achieve some of the elements that I have spoken about—proactivity, anonymity, third-party referral to the adjudicator, which is important, and the power to fine.

The Bill may well enable the Secretary of State to introduce regulations allowing the adjudicator to fine supermarkets that fall below the standards set in the Bill. To bring about reputational damage, which is the only way in which supermarkets will be made to change their practice, that additional power will be needed. It is important to recognise that not all the supermarkets and those who will be brought under the code object to the proposal. Supermarkets have been achieving record profits in the deepest recession, so to argue that they cannot afford it is rubbish.

I say to the hon. Member for Ogmore that speed is of the essence. The motion should be withdrawn so that we send a strong message to the outside world.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Charitable effort has indeed always been part of this country, before the phrase “big society” was invented, but never with the proliferation that we currently see. It is a tragedy.

Let me relate a direct story about one not unusual family of four in England today. One parent is out of work and the other is in a low-paid job. Before Christmas, they found themselves behind on their mortgage, with their council tax debt racking up and the gas and electricity meters running out of money. They receive working tax credit and child tax credit, both of which will soon be cut by the Government. Their home is increasingly cold and dark and the only things in their cupboards are food parcels from the local food bank. The right hon. Lady shakes her head, but they buy what fresh food they can when they can, but without the support and kindness of local people, they would simply go hungry. We would love that to be fiction, but such are now the facts of life for too many families.

Into that harsh reality stumbles a throwback to the 1980s—a former Conservative Minister who was then the hon. Member for South Derbyshire. When confronted recently with that dire social and economic regression, she boldly answered:

“Are you telling me people in this country are going hungry? Seriously? Seriously?”

Yes, seriously—former Conservative Ministers might not want to believe it, but it is a searing indictment of the Government that more and more people across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland find themselves relying on food banks, one of which was opening every week last year. Those people depend on the generosity of others to get by.

Last year, 60,000 people received help from a food bank, a figure that the Trussell Trust predicts will rise to 130,000 in the next year. For all those impoverished families who now need a voice in the Chamber, the words and sentiment of the former Member for Ebbw Vale echo down the years: this is their truth, our truth—tell me yours. What is true across the UK is true in my constituency and neighbouring constituencies. From Llanharan to Gilfach Goch, and Maesteg to Pontycymmer, and all points between, food banks proliferate.

We should pay tribute to the many volunteers and organisations involved, such as the Bridgend food bank and the Pontyclun food bank, but the issue is a terrible indictment of the economic misery inflicted on families under this failing coalition Government. I challenge the Minister and the Government to dispute that stark reality. The Government’s failing policies and inaction on the economy mean that families are finding it hard to make ends meet and struggling to cope with rising living costs, higher energy, housing and food bills, and the constant fear that they could lose their jobs—if they have them—at any time.

For too many, eating is losing out to heating and housing costs. Charities warn that having a job is now no protection; an estimated 10% of food bank recipients are middle earners whose salaries have been cut or frozen or who have recently lost their jobs. Food prices rose by more than 4% last year. Lower-income families are eating less fresh fruit and vegetables. They spend more than 15% of their income on food. In real terms, it comes down to a couple with two young children spending an extra £233 on their annual food bill.

When surveyed by Which? in the last year, more than half of consumers said that increasing prices made it difficult to eat healthily. Nearly 90% genuinely fear the increasing cost of food. Those are startling figures. However, when people need help, the Government seem torn between prevarication and paralysis when it comes to taking action that will go some way towards easing the pressure on people’s wallets—not least by assisting farmers and manufacturers of the food we eat with the retail and financial challenges that they face.

When in government, Labour took action after the hike in food prices in 2008 to address that challenge and to produce more food sustainably. In 2010, we published the first Government food strategy for 60 years and our priority was a sustainable, affordable competitive food sector. We gained cross-party support for the supermarket ombudsman—to ensure a fair deal for farmers and food producers, who still need a fair deal from major retailers—and for the implementation of the groceries supply code of practice in February 2010.

Yes, there was more to be done, but the creation of an ombudsman—the groceries adjudicator—to enforce and monitor the code of practice was a recommendation of the Competition Commission and is supported by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Business, Innovation and Skills Committees. It would do a great deal for farmers, food manufacturers and the public. It was not just us asking for it.

[Andrew George]

I have to put the hon. Gentleman right. The Competition Commission was empowered and used its power to introduce the groceries supply code of practice; it was not the last Labour Government. Will he retract that claim?

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I am happy to say that the code is in place, and that happened while the Labour party was in government. I agreed with the hon. Gentleman when he said last September:

“Every week the government fails to act, farmers are finding themselves in more difficulty.”

So let us get on with it.

We do not want bluff and bluster; we do need action. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) said, we ignore the perfect storm of rising prices, falling incomes and food poverty at our peril. I urge the House to support the motion.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State, but questions and answers are, frankly, too long. I am sure we will have a short—that is, single sentence—question from the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George).

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I shall do my best, Mr Speaker.

If British farmers are to compete on the world market, support systems must not simply allow British farmers to avoid creating the ranch-and-prairie environmental deserts that we clearly do not want. Does my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State believe that the common agricultural policy reforms are currently moving things in the right direction?

[Mrs Spelman]

Within the CAP proposals, there is an endeavour to balance the need to promote animal welfare and protection of the environment in parallel with producing food sustainably, but the important thing in concluding trade deals with non-EU countries—2012 ought to the be the year of UK trade deals as emerging markets offer great potential to our industry—is to have the higher standards to which British food is produced recognised in the wider world and at global level.

Bovine TB

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

The science determines the level of mortality that must be achieved for the controlled reduction to be effective, and a 70% reduction in the badger population is what the RBCT trial showed had to be achieved. One key point of the six-week pilot is to confirm our assumption that controlled shooting will achieve that level of reduction in the badger population.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is a devastating disease. We must hope that this policy will help and not make the situation worse. In the implementation of the culling policy, how will she ensure that there is a proper and rigorous estimate of the badger population and also that there is a proper count of those badgers that are culled within the area and not outside it?

[Mrs Spelman]

I commiserate with my hon. Friend because his part of the country has been the most badly affected by this terrible disease. Natural England will carry out a survey of the badger population before any culling takes place and will also check that the percentage of badgers culled fits the criteria set out in the pilot.

Water White Paper

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Like the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw), I welcome the Government’s approach to South West Water customers and to the social tariff proposal. However, does my hon. Friend acknowledge that the ability across companies to respond to the advantage that is given to them as regards social tariffs will vary from company area to company area, and will he keep that under review? After all, this is a White Paper, not a Bill.

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We hope to legislate in the near future on a number of these matters, not least that of South West Water, which does require primary legislation. The guidance that we are consulting on will be made available when the results of the consultation are known in January—in the new year, to be precise. We will very much take his concerns into account. We want company social tariff schemes that really work and get to those who are in water poverty.

Water Bills (South West)

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Westminster Hall

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Crausby, and I am very grateful for the opportunity to cover this particular topic. It will not be for the first time, I must say. Those who have sat in your position over the years have seen many debates secured by Members from our part of the world on this huge issue for our constituents: very high water bills.

We have moved on a little since we last met. I recall being here in March for a debate secured my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Mr Sanders), at which point we were still looking at how the responses to the Walker review of 2009 would come forward. We now have a concrete response from the coalition Government, about which I am delighted. Politicians are always looking out for our constituents, so there are one or two things I want to ask the Minister later, particularly about social tariffs and WaterSure, but I would like to start off the debate by congratulating the Department and the Minister’s colleagues across Government for the contributions they have made.

It bears repeating why we are in this situation and what the experience of our constituents has been in Devon, Cornwall and the west of Somerset and Dorset over the past couple of decades since privatisation. At the time of privatisation, there was an aspiration on the part of the Conservative Government to see private investment coming in to develop infrastructure that had been neglected. There is no doubt that it had been neglected for decades, but there was huge concern at the time from those who could not see how competition could work in a sector where there was one main supplier and one main company dealing with waste. That has been an issue, in that no sort of market emerged, unlike in other privatised industries.

The key question for us in the South West Water area was one of infrastructure. The company was able to do a huge amount, both to deal with the environmental legacy that it was left and to meet the requirements set by the Government and the European Union. We welcome that, of course. Organisations such as Surfers Against Sewage, which has been around and done fantastic environmental work over the years, were at the forefront of holding Government and industry to account to deliver on their commitments and obligations. While we have seen progress, investment can only be secured against an income stream. The company had to seek that investment—get investment from shareholders and go to the markets for money—on the basis of an income stream.

In Cornwall and south-west England, we have seen a huge legacy of environmental works that need to be carried out, to a far greater degree than any other part of the country. I refer to the fact that the population of Cornwall accounts for 3% of the population of England, but we have 30% of the coastline. That is an easy way to illustrate the scale of the problem; we have a large amount of work to do, but a relatively small population to pay for it, despite the fact that the coastline is a national treasure, if you like. It is enjoyed by people from across the country who come to take advantage of it. We have the south-west coast path and all sorts of attractions for people to come to enjoy the beaches and countryside of Cornwall and Devon, but we have not had a way to capture a contribution from those people towards the maintenance of infrastructure. It falls to people living closer to that national asset to pay for the whole lot.

There has been some concern in the press recently about the policy of contribution outlined in the Budget and referred to in the autumn statement, and the money set aside to help in this regard. There was an article in The Times last week, in which there were rumblings from other parts of the country about how unfair this was. I do not think that that unfairness exists; this is a much fairer solution to a problem that people in my constituency and those neighbouring it have experienced for a couple of decades. There is still, however, a lack of understanding. We have perhaps not made a big enough effort at national level to get across to those who are concerned in other parts of the country just why there is a desperate need.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

First, I congratulate my hon. Friend on having secured this important debate. I would like to congratulate the Government and welcome the announcement in the autumn statement yesterday, although I have to say that it was a 20-year ask. My hon. Friend referred to WaterSure and the social tariff. Does he agree that the statement yesterday does not mean that we should not also make a strong case for an equitable outcome with regard to the future statement on WaterSure and the social tariff when the water White Paper comes out next week?

[Dan Rogerson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Earlier, I hinted that I would return to that, and of course he understands that further questions remain, which, if settled fairly and equitably, could ensure that the contribution set aside in the Budget has the maximum impact, and that none of its benefits are lost through unintended consequences with regard to tariff schemes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. However, the other important point to note is that the fact that the south-west has a much higher percentage of households on meters is good for those particular people, because they very often use much less water than larger families or households in multiple occupancy. That offers a really effective way not only of paying proportionally lower bills, but of managing problems—for example, they will know much sooner, if they are on a meter, if there is a leak. I applaud the work done by the company. We want to see such work developed not only in the south-west but elsewhere, and we will encourage that.

[Andrew George]

The Minister is speaking about the crux of what will no doubt appear in the water White Paper next year. The impact of the flat £50 per household reduction is welcome. It will apply irrespective of whether households are wealthy second home owners on water meters who therefore have relatively low bills or the large number of local families in straitened circumstances. It is those families for whom a nationally equitable solution is required because, despite the £50 reduction, they will still face considerable bills.

[Richard Benyon]

First, I can say to my hon. Friend that he will not have to wait until next year for the water White Paper, which is much more imminent. I cannot tell him precisely when, but it will be very soon. Secondly, the White Paper will examine the whole range of affordability issues and solutions. I hope that the package we introduce will make a real difference.

My hon. Friend and all Members who represent the south-west will recognise that that will require legislation, which is why I cannot promise that it will be delivered before April 2013. I wish it could, but we are convinced that primary legislation is required, although we hope to deliver it in time for the start of the financial year in April 2013.

Company social tariffs will allow water companies everywhere to reduce the bills of those who would otherwise be unable to afford them in full. In conjunction with the excellent existing support schemes and advice, companies will be able to design the right tariffs for their region. We want all companies to introduce social tariffs as part of a package of advice and support for customers about affordability and efficiency. I hope that hon. Members, advice organisations and environmental organisations will work with water companies to design the best schemes for their regions.

Before I conclude, I just want to express again my appreciation to hon. Members across the south-west for their efforts in bringing forward this matter, and my determination to continue this discussion in the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

I think we are speculating wildly about the future of Europe. My job is to concentrate on getting an improvement in the reforms. It is important to appreciate that the underlying objective of the CAP is to provide good-quality food at a reasonable price. My Department is committed in its business plan priorities to producing more food sustainably, precisely to achieve that objective.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that a primary objective must be a move from market-distorting production supports to supporting public goods, such as the environment and amenity. How much progress does she believe the CAP reforms are making in that direction? How do we ensure that that general direction of progress can be accelerated?

[Mrs Spelman]

That is a helpful question, as it enables me to share with the House the fact that we are on a journey with these proposals. We welcome the fact that the Commission wants to “green” the CAP. Taxpayers have every right to expect other public goods for the subsidy they provide. We feel that the “greening” proposals also lack ambition, and we want proper recognition of the fact that UK farmers go a lot further than those in a lot of other member states in providing stewardship schemes that make a real difference and provide environmental benefits that address problems such as the demise of species.