Welsh Affairs

Albert Owen Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Welsh affairs.

It is important to have a Welsh debate in the House of Commons. As you will know, Mr Speaker, when one goes into Central Lobby, one is surrounded by four large arches. The arch that leads to the House of Commons has St David on it. It is therefore appropriate that we are having our St David’s day debate in the House of Commons this year.

Although time is a bit tight, I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate. I make a plea to the Government and to their successors—I hope that there is a Government of a different colour in 2015—to reinstate a Welsh affairs debate in Government time, because post-devolution, there are many important matters that Welsh Members wish to debate. Many of those are cross-border issues, many concern reserved powers and many reach us as individual Members of Parliament in our constituency surgeries and when we make visits in the constituency. This is a traditional debate that goes back many decades.

I believe Wales to be an integral part of the United Kingdom, and I hope that it will remain so for many decades and centuries. I speak in this debate, as will many Members, as a Welsh patriot—an outward-looking Welsh patriot. I make no apology for being pro-Welsh, pro-British and pro-European Union. Above all, I am pro-Anglesey. I am proud to represent the island community of Ynys Môn, the mother of Wales, in this, the mother of all Parliaments. I see no contradiction in being pro-Welsh, pro-British and pro-European Union. I feel no less Welsh by being pro-United Kingdom and no less British by being pro-European Union.

It is in that context that I want to make my opening remarks, particularly as this Parliament has been preoccupied with separation and divorce. I am speaking, of course, of the Scottish debate about independence, which has been pushed by the nationalist agenda. I am also speaking about the separatists on the Conservative Back Benches, who have been pushing for exit from the European Union. Indeed, they are the tail that has wagged the Conservative dog throughout most of this Parliament, with the Prime Minister trying to steer a very—[Interruption.] Does the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) want to intervene? He is making remarks from a sedentary position.

I accept that those are legitimate debates to have in this House and in this democratic society. Nevertheless, I believe, as I am sure do many Members, that those debates are causing instability in the United Kingdom and in the European Union. I believe that to be bad for business and bad for our economies, whether local, regional or national. We heard just today that businesses in Scotland are concerned about the instability that is being caused by those debates and the movements towards separation and divorce.

The head of Shell has warned quite clearly that the talk of separation is causing a lack of the stability and clarity that businesses need in order to invest. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) says “Dutch” from a sedentary position. I worked as a British merchant seaman and many people from Wales work on British vessels. We are proud to serve under the red ensign as British seamen, bringing many pounds to the local economies throughout Wales.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Will the hon. Gentleman remind the House what the credit agency Standard & Poor’s recently said about the finances of an independent Scotland, and about its take on the current finances of the British state?

[Albert Owen]

I will make my own speech. If the hon. Gentleman wants to make such points—[Interruption.] He can laugh, but I do not speak for the Scottish National party, and I certainly do not speak with a nationalist agenda. That is the point I am making, and I will make my own speech in my own way. The hon. Gentleman prompts me, however, to mention local independent polls from Wales and the United Kingdom, which claim that some 5% of the population of Wales want an independent Wales, and separation and divorce from the United Kingdom. The question was asked because of Scottish independence, and I accept that the figure rises to 7% if Scotland were to have independence. I make that remark because I feel it is important for the 95% who want to remain in the United Kingdom to have their voices raised in this House in a proud and co-operative way.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

While the hon. Gentleman is on the subject, what credence does he give to the views of a superannuated, tax-dodging rock star from, I think, New York these days, on the Scottish question?

[Albert Owen]

I do not know who the hon. Gentleman is referring to, but when I speak to chief executive officers of international companies, they say in private that they want stability in the United Kingdom so that they can invest in it—in all parts of it. I referred to the European Union and I am consistent on this issue. Businesses have been telling me in public, in private, and in Select Committees, that they want stability to make those huge investments to help the economies of the United Kingdom.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

A successful Welsh business such as Airbus really shows how European partnership can work. If we were outside the European Union, does my hon. Friend think we would get the investment, or would those jobs be at threat?

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and he puts the issue to bed. We are not just talking about foreign individuals who may be chief executives of companies; we are talking about skilled, well-paid jobs and investment that will boost the economies of Deeside, Bristol and other parts of the United Kingdom. Business leaders at events with Airbus that I have attended have been clear that they are investing in Europe. That is why they want to invest in the United Kingdom, and they choose Deeside because it has an excellent skilled work force. I want that to continue and for many other parts of Wales and the United Kingdom to benefit from that as well.

The Welsh dimension to the constitutional debate in this Parliament has concentrated on the Silk commission, but I am being honest with hon. Members when I say that not one constituent has raised that with me as an important or pertinent issue for them. They do, however, raise important issues about public services and the cost of living, and they talk about international affairs—we had an excellent debate on women in Afghanistan today. People send us here to talk about real issues that affect them.

I speak as a proud pro-devolutionist and I supported devolution in 1979. Many fellow travellers have come along since that time, including the Labour party. To me, however, real devolution is about empowering people throughout our country. It is not about the simple transfer of powers from one institution in Whitehall to another in Cardiff Bay; to me it is about empowering people in Cemaes bay in my constituency, and in Colwyn bay, Cardigan bay, and many other parts of Wales. It is not just about the boring constitutional issues that we, the political elite, are bogged down with and a few commentators are talking about.

I want to talk about the real issue of developing a stable and growing economy in Wales as part of the United Kingdom and the European Union, and I will mention two things that affect businesses and people in my constituency: energy and tourism.

On energy, I very much welcome the fact that we are getting a consensus on the big energy issues, for reasons that I gave earlier including the stability that businesses crave so that they can make huge investments in the future. I welcome the Secretary of State’s support for Wylfa Newydd and his conversion to offshore wind. I shall put this mildly because I want the consensus to continue, but when the Secretary of State worked alongside me on the Welsh Affairs Committee I recall him being concerned about the consents under the previous Government. He now backs those schemes and even claims credit for them as the flagship of the coalition Government.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I can actually see the Gwynt y Môr wind farm from my sitting room, so I can recognise a fact of life.

[Albert Owen]

I take that point, and the Secretary of State may now find that an attractive view from his window, but at one time he did not want it to go ahead. He would not have been able to see it from his window, nor would he have been able to meet many of the targets that we are making progress towards in a low-carbon economy. I have always thought that offshore wind has a great future, although I am a little less certain about onshore wind, because of the sheer size of some of the turbines.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Given that offshore wind normally needs a strike price of about £150 per megawatt-hour, is the hon. Gentleman as happy to argue that people should be willing to pay more for their electricity as he is to argue for those wind farms to be built?

[Albert Owen]

We need a mix. We need a base load and we need variable energy. If we do not have interconnectors and we are producing too much energy in the summer, when peak demand is less, we cannot switch off nuclear power stations and it is expensive to switch off gas. It is easier to switch off variable supplies such as renewables can provide, including wind. There is an initial cost, but those costs are coming down, and I believe that with economies of scale—as with the strike price for nuclear or for any other renewable—the price will decrease as the sector matures. In the long term, bills will be cheaper if we get a steady supply of low carbon energy.

Nuclear power is also part of the mix. I welcome the conversion of the Secretary of State to wind power and the conversion of the Liberal Democrats to nuclear power. I hope that that means that the three larger parties, two of which form the Government now and one of which I hope will form the next Government, will be consistent in the future.

[Mr David Jones]

Would the hon. Gentleman be able to inform the House of the position of Plaid Cymru in his constituency on nuclear power?

[Albert Owen]

It is up to Plaid Cymru to defend itself. As I have been provoked into raising the issue, I will say that it is important that all the larger parties here and the larger parties in the Assembly—of which Plaid Cymru is one—show their support. In my opinion, a party cannot claim to be in full support of a technology if its leader says that she wants an energy future without nuclear power. The leader of a party cannot say that to business leaders and then say that she supports the jobs. We need to support the development of the technology. On Plaid Cymru’s website, which I get little notes about occasionally, the energy spokesperson says that it wants 100% renewable energy by 2035—there is no mention of nuclear. That is a clear indication that Plaid Cymru opposes nuclear as part of the energy mix in the future. That will be an issue for the general election as we make progress on the building of Wylfa Newydd. I hope that that answers the Secretary of State’s intervention.

[Hywel Williams]

Tag team!

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman says, “Tag team!”, and I will come to that issue in a moment.

Yesterday, I and other Members of Parliament held an event on Britain’s nuclear future. None of the Plaid Cymru Members came, but it was attended by apprentices and graduates from Wales, who have jobs on the Wylfa site. The Welsh Government, the local authority and the UK Government have put aside moneys to train young people, giving them the opportunity to have a quality job. This policy, which is supported by parties in this House, will enhance local economies. It will benefit my area socially and culturally, as it has done for some 40 years.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman is always kind when somebody seeks to intervene. Energy is a contentious issue, and there are divisions within all parties on every aspect of energy policy. For instance, how would he be responding if the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) was in his place this afternoon?

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West and I do not agree on nuclear power, but I will tell the hon. Gentleman who does agree: the Labour leader in the authority in my constituency, the Labour First Minister of Wales and the Leader of the Opposition, who was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change. The Labour party has continuity, with party leaders proudly saying what its policy is. The leader of Plaid Cymru does not support this policy, but expects the people in my area to vote for it, which is disingenuous and wrong. Energy is a big issue in general election campaigns. Of course there are individuals, but we expect leaders to provide leadership and clarity not just for the country but for investment.

The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) has come in and is speaking rather loudly. Does he want to intervene?

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

I was not planning to intervene, but I understand that Labour has some difficulty regarding further powers for Wales. The Scottish Parliament is not very powerful. Why would the hon. Gentleman not want the Welsh Assembly to be at least as powerful as the Scottish Parliament is today?

[Albert Owen]

I have made no comment on that. The hon. Gentleman does not understand that I have been supporting devolution since 1979. I believe in a devolved Administration, but the issue is not about more powers. If he had been in the Chamber earlier, he would have heard me say that people do not raise the issue of more powers with me as a constituency MP.

[Mr MacNeil]

rose—

[Albert Owen]

I am not giving way again, because the hon. Gentleman was not here earlier. He was speaking loudly and that is why I let him intervene, but I need to finish my remarks. If he had been in earlier, he would have heard exactly what I said.

As a pro-devolutionist who goes further than my party on many issues—[Interruption.] A pro-devolutionist is someone who believes that powers should be devolved not just to Administrations, such as those in Edinburgh or Cardiff, but to the people in their local area. I do not believe that many people want independence. That is what the polls tell me. I think we will move towards the Scottish Parliament model when the people of Wales require it, and I will be arguing for those powers at that time. The powers that people want now are economic: they want to improve their cost of living. That is the debate we had when the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar was not here.

On energy, we need continuity. The young people I met yesterday are Britain’s future. They are Wales’s future and they are my constituency’s future, too. They will get high-paid, quality jobs by working in the nuclear industry. They are the model young Welsh Europeans of the future and they want a stake in that future. They are proud to be Welsh. One of them is going to Twickenham on Sunday, where he will be supporting the Welsh team in its efforts to regain the Six Nations championship. They are proud Welsh people who are proud to be part of the United Kingdom. That is who I meet on a day-to-day basis, and that is who I have come here to represent.

North Wales MPs met Centrica this week, which will be making a substantial investment in offshore wind. We need to encourage that. I make a plea to the Secretary of State that, along with north Wales MPs, he makes the strong argument that the benefits go not to other parts of the United Kingdom, but to close by north Wales. We have the port facilities and the skilled labour force to retain thousands of quality jobs in our region and it is very important that we do so. The port of Holyhead needs investment, but unfortunately Stena is concentrating on the wrong things. It is talking about cutting the wages and conditions of crews when it should be investing in the port so that it can fulfil its potential and secure the extra business that will create thousands of quality jobs in the future. I hope that the Secretary of State will meet me so that we can speak with one voice on that issue.

I want to say a little about tourism. Wales as a product is of an international standard, but we are competing against the rest of the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. Let me again issue a plea to the Secretary of State and the Government. Our near neighbours, the Republic of Ireland and France, have cut the rate of value added tax to boost and stimulate the economy—

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Albert Owen]

No, I will not give way again.

Ireland and France have done that for a very good reason: they have done it because business has been asking them to do it. There is no reason why any part of the United Kingdom could not benefit from a cut in VAT. An application could be made to reduce it, and that would stimulate the economy.

[Hywel Williams]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Albert Owen]

I will give way once more, but that will be the final intervention, because I am conscious of the time.

[Hywel Williams]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman that VAT on tourism should be reduced, as indeed should VAT on building, renovations and repairs. In 2008, ECOFIN decided to allow countries to reduce VAT to 5%. What did the Labour Government do about that from 2008 onwards?

[Albert Owen]

No request was made to me. If it had been, I would have lobbied for such a reduction. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman is talking about. However, I have found—and I am sure that he will agree with me about this—that the hike in VAT to 20% has had a negative effect on spending in many areas. Local businesses tell me that. Hon. Members should not listen to what I am saying; listen to them. There is a good campaign across the United Kingdom for a cut in VAT on tourism.

One leading business person told me that whenever he takes his partner, son-in-law and daughter out for a drink, he has to take the Chancellor of the Exchequer with him, because 20% of the bill goes to the Treasury. That cannot be right. Other European Union member states are enjoying a VAT reduction, and have benefited from hundreds of thousands of extra jobs and from investment in tourism.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

I will, but this really will be the last intervention, because, as I have said, I am conscious of the time.

[Alun Cairns]

Is the hon. Gentleman telling us that cutting the VAT paid by tourist businesses to 5% is Labour party policy?

[Albert Owen]

I am not going to take a lecture from someone who voted for it to be raised to 20%. [Interruption.] Conservative Members can flap their hands as much as they want—

[Mr MacNeil]

Labour abstained.

[Albert Owen]

I certainly did not abstain on any vote on this. I have been in favour of reducing VAT. The hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) may smirk, but businesses in his constituency have contacted me about this very issue. Either he wants to make knockabout party points, or he wants to stand up for businesses in his area. Unlike him, I voted against raising VAT, because I believe that it is a regressive tax which cuts business investment. When the Government talk about reducing taxes, they forget that they have hiked up value added tax. The businesses of this country are raising that issue with me, which is why I think it legitimate for me to raise it here today.

I want people to come to Wales to work, to live and to visit. I want home-grown businesses to grow and flourish, welcoming the investment that we receive from the rest of the United Kingdom, the rest of the European Union and the rest of the world. I want Wales to become the place in which to do business. I want it to be a destination, and I want its young people to flourish in the future. That will happen if we are pro-Welsh economy, pro-Britain, pro-Europe and pro-business.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) for the opportunity to debate Welsh affairs today. I want to raise two issues relating to employment in my constituency.

However, let me begin by strongly agreeing with the excellent speech by my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) on the problem of legal highs, particularly in Gwent. That issue very much came home to me on Sunday, when I was with my kids in a corner of a park in Newport and saw dozens and dozens of empty legal-high packets of all shapes, sizes and colours, with enticing graphics on the front. As in my right hon. Friend’s constituency, premises in Newport were closed down; I believe they were part of the same operation. As a result, I went to a briefing by the team in Gwent police who are dealing with this issue and working extremely hard on it with the local authorities. When the Home Secretary came into post, she promised swift action on legal highs. However, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, it is an extremely difficult issue involving hundreds of different substances and thousands of different sellers. The legislation is out of date and we are playing catch-up. We need to give local authorities and the police the tools to do the job, not least because people have absolutely no idea what they taking, and we are very much storing up health problems for the future.

I want to talk about the economy in Newport. In recent times, we have heard much from the Government and their Welsh team about how things are improving in Wales, with the recovery under way and things getting easier. Of course, I welcome falls in unemployment in my constituency, although youth unemployment remains unacceptably high, but beneath those figures there is a different story. It is still the case that about 300,000 Welsh workers earned below the living wage in 2012. I would like to say a very big “Well done and congratulations” to Newport council for its decision last week to implement the living wage.

In Wales, we have seen the largest increase in the UK in the number of people who want to work more hours but cannot find them due to the Tories’ failed economic policies. Some 65,000 people are deemed to be under-employed in Wales. Only this morning, a young girl came into my office in Newport and talked about how hard it was for her family because her father’s hours had been reduced from 40 to 14. That is the reality for many people in my constituency.

In recent weeks, there has been bad news for employment in our city of Newport. First, there were the job losses at the Avana bakery—the Secretary of State has been involved with this—in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). The bakery announced that it would possibly lose up to 650 jobs following the loss of a contract with Marks and Spencer. Secondly, we learned that there is a threat to public sector jobs at the Ministry of Justice shared services centre in Celtic Springs. Then, only this week, we heard the very hard news that 123 jobs are under threat at the Orb steel works, which has a long history of steelmaking in my constituency and is a subsidiary of Tata Steel. At the MOJ and Orb works, there are things that the Government could do to step in, and that is the focus of my remarks.

This week’s announcement that Tata Steel will be restructuring the work force at the Orb steelworks may lead to the loss of 83 direct jobs and 40 contractors’ jobs. That is really hard news for those workers—and their families—who have worked extremely flexibly over the past few years. These are skilled jobs that we can ill afford to lose from Wales. It is an extremely challenging time for the steel industry in Wales, and this announcement underlines that. Demand for steel is down, imports from outside Europe are up and steel manufacturers are being hit by higher energy costs. The price of electricity for steelmakers in the UK is about 38% higher than in France and 56% higher than in Germany. Those are massive differences and they are hitting our industries. UK producers also pay levies and taxes such as the carbon floor price and the renewables obligation, but German and French steelmakers—not to mention those outside Europe—are largely protected from those. The accumulative impact is that we are putting UK steelmakers at a competitive disadvantage, with customers seeing UK energy costs as a particular problem.

I know that the Government have accepted the arguments that high energy prices impact on UK manufacturers and that the most energy-intensive industries should be protected from rising green taxes. However, what has been done so far is not enough to mitigate those costs or reverse the manufacturers’ fortunes. In the Budget, the Government need to take more action on high energy costs, the carbon price floor and renewables obligations, which are hitting us really hard, particularly in Wales, at a time when demand for steel is down.

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend is making a very important point. The carbon price floor, which disadvantages this country, was brought in unilaterally in the past couple of years. We cannot blame Europe for that; it is down to this British Government.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and I very much agree with him. I know that time is running out, but we need Wales Office Ministers urgently to press the Treasury on that matter in advance of the Budget.

The Government are also potentially to offshore Government jobs from the MOJ shared services centre in Newport. I am very reliant on the public sector in my constituency. People in the public sector have had their wages frozen and there has been a sustained attack on their numbers. In fact, in the recent Centre for City report, Newport came bottom for employment growth in the private sector.

Was it only in January that the Prime Minister said that we must become the “reshoring nation”? You would not think so, because only weeks later his Ministers are embarking on a path that could lead the MOJ shared services centre into a contract that will allow offshoring. The Newport office employs about 1,000 staff in back-office functions. The Cabinet Office and the MOJ want to privatise those jobs, and so far nothing has been said by Ministers to alleviate fears. In fact, the Justice Secretary told me:

“To be a competitive and viable business…needs to be in line with other companies of this kind, which often see non-customer facing transactional roles being sourced offshore. The creation and operation model…reflects government guidelines with off shoring being a feature of many successful public sector contracts.”

If the Prime Minister is so keen on private companies reshoring jobs, why is his Government so keen on offshoring Government jobs? The situation is ludicrous. Will Welsh Ministers tell the Cabinet Office and the Justice Secretary that, especially in the light of other job losses in Newport, these are good public sector jobs that we really need to keep in Newport?

To end on a positive note, the Welsh Government’s deal with Pinewood Studios to bring a new film studio to Newport is very welcome and a good boost to us locally, as is the Welsh Government’s setting up of the reNewport taskforce, which has recently come up with lots of innovative ideas for improving things in Newport. It has been warmly welcomed and has harnessed much local enthusiasm.

Last but not least, I welcome the announcement about the NATO summit in September. We are looking forward to that and I am also looking forward to working very closely with Wales Office Ministers to maximise its impact on the community and employers of Newport.

--- Later in debate ---

[Albert Owen]

May I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, a canny Scot with an English constituency, for impartially overseeing our debate on Welsh affairs? I was proud to move the debate and to be a co-sponsor with the hon. Members for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), and the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), who could not be with us today because of a pre-arranged engagement.

We had 12 Back-Bench contributions and two Front-Bench winding-up speeches, all of them valuable. The debate was over-subscribed, which is proof that we need an annual full-day Welsh debate in the House. The Leader of the House is in his place and taking the issues on board.

I teased the Chamber about the anti-European views of Conservative Back Benchers and the pro-independence view of Plaid Cymru. The hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) did not disappoint in his contribution. The hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) suggested that Welsh Members are victims. I see us as full participants, not victims in any way.

When the Secretary of State talked about broadband in Wales, he gave a great example of where the Welsh Government are leading on such matters, working with the UK Government, with funds from the European Union, and with the private sector. We are all working together for the good of Wales. We in this House must be proud of our Welshness and of the fact that we are an integral part of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, as well as pro-Europeans. In May, if you want a pro-Welsh, pro-British, pro-European party, vote Labour.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Welsh affairs.