Oral Answers to Questions

Viscount Thurso Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

2. If he will review the level of provision for cyclists who regularly commute to the Palace of Westminster.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

Parliament’s green travel plan will be reviewed annually, with a green travel survey conducted every two years. As part of that, the provision of facilities for cyclists on the parliamentary estate was reviewed in 2012, in consultation with the all-party group on cycling and the parliamentary bicycle users’ group. As a result, 150 additional bicycle parking spaces were provided on the estate—a 60% increase—including 60 additional covered spaces. The House recently introduced a cycle-to-work salary sacrifice scheme for House staff, alongside the existing cycle loan scheme for staff.

[Fiona Mactaggart]

The hon. Gentleman makes it sound as though things have got much better, but in practice either people have to be much stronger than I am to work the new racks in most of the covered spaces or they are blocked up by people who do not commute every day. Will he please meet regular commuters to the House to see whether we can put in place mechanisms to ensure that they have access to covered bicycle parking spaces?

[John Thurso]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. I would be delighted to have that meeting to discuss the issue she raises. Let me assure her that the House would certainly wish to ensure that the spaces that have been provided are properly used and available for bicycle users.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

4. What provision the Commission is making for the charging of electric-powered vehicles on the parliamentary estate.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

There are two charging points, which are sponsored by EDF, in the underground car park for official Government cars. There are also recharging points for electric scooters and motorcycles installed in the House of Lords areas of the Palace of Westminster. Members who belong to the Source London network may use the charging facilities provided by Source London in Abingdon car park, situated underneath Abingdon green. No further provision has yet been made for the charging of electric-powered vehicles on the parliamentary estate, although the House authorities will continue to keep this under review.

[Duncan Hames]

I certainly hope that the House authorities will continue to keep the matter under review, as the vast majority of us in this place have no hope of ever being able to use the electric charge points for official Government cars. My hon. Friend may have heard Transport Ministers saying earlier that the private sector was racing ahead in the provision of electric charging points. I hope he might bear that in mind when considering whether more can be done on the parliamentary estate.

[John Thurso]

May I draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the debate taking place at 1.30 this afternoon in Westminster Hall on the Transport Select Committee’s report, “Plug-in vehicles, plugged in policy”? The report contains an extremely good exposé of why the wide variety of vehicle plug-in types makes it difficult to know which to install. That is the core problem, but once the House knows what should be installed, I am sure that we will do our utmost to install it.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

8. What estimate the Commission has made of the number of apprentices employed in the House of Commons supply chain.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I said in my answer of 28 February that discussions with a number of major contractors such as Royal Mail suggest that they operate apprenticeship schemes within their larger businesses, but I do not have an accurate number on how many of them are in the House. Most of the procurement exercises conducted by the House administration are subject to a legal regime imposed by the European public procurement directives, which limit the conditions that the House can impose. The House administration is committed to providing apprenticeships, paid internships and encouragement for young people from all backgrounds. The apprenticeship scheme of the Clerk of the House, to be launched in the summer, will give added impetus to those efforts.

[Robert Halfon]

Will my hon. Friend give strong support to the apprenticeship scheme started by the senior Clerk of the House, which will give many apprentices across the country the chance to work in the House of Commons? Will he link that scheme with the parliamentary apprenticeship scheme, which I set up with New Deal of the Mind, so that we can all work together on this issue?

[John Thurso]

I would be delighted to commit myself and the authorities to that support. The intention of the Clerk’s scheme, shortly to be launched, is to offer 10 paid placements of 12 months’ duration leading to an NVQ. I commend it to everyone in the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Viscount Thurso Excerpts

Thursday 28th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

1. What discussions the Commission has had with the Food Standards Agency on products served at catering outlets in the House of Commons.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

The Commission has no direct discussions with the Food Standards Agency on products served in its outlets. However, the House’s catering service continues to be vigilant and to act in line with FSA recommendations. The catering service is also in communication with its accredited suppliers, trade associations, the trade press and an independent food safety service about any potential problems in the food supply chain.

[Mr Hanson]

Consumers, whether they are in the House of Commons or on the high street, expect integrity in their food supply. Will the hon. Gentleman continue that contact with suppliers so that they look at their suppliers to ensure that this House has integrity of supply?

[John Thurso]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that request and can certainly give him that assurance. The recent case of some products being withdrawn happened precisely because the supplier, Brakes, made contact with us as part of that dialogue. I am delighted to say that they are all back in service, having been found to have had no problems.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for the work he and the Commission are doing in this regard. May I also request that we consider the traceability issue and use this as an opportunity to take prime beef from north Yorkshire, as that would be music to the ears of my constituents?

[John Thurso]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question, but I have to say that there will be stiff competition from the prime beef from the north of Scotland.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Meg Hillier. Not here.

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[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

4. What estimate the Commission has made of the number of apprentices employed by the House service and its primary contractors and their subcontractors.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave to him in writing on 17 January, which said that both the catering service and the Parliamentary Estates Directorate were considering options for apprenticeship schemes. In addition, discussions with a number of major contractors, such as Royal Mail, suggest that they operate apprenticeship schemes within their larger businesses. The Department of Facilities is aware of three apprentices employed by a large contractor working on the parliamentary estate and the director general of facilities would be happy to discuss this further with the hon. Gentleman.

[Robert Halfon]

Will my hon. Friend make sure that the House of Commons does everything possible to employ more apprentices, and will he link up with the parliamentary apprentice school, which I have set up with the charity New Deal of the Mind that helps provide apprentices for MPs’ offices so that we can perhaps supply apprentices for the House of Commons Administration and around the House of Commons?

[John Thurso]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that suggestion, and I am sure that we will want to act on it. I pay tribute to Mr Speaker’s scheme for internships and the other schemes of this order, all of which help to get young people into employment from diverse backgrounds throughout the House.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I push the hon. Gentleman? I do not want to be rude to him, but that was a bit of a pathetic response. The House employs a lot of people. We should demand of the supply chain to this House not only good pure food but that our suppliers employ a fair number of apprentices. I have often criticised the management of the House. It is not sharp enough. More apprentices, and let us have them now please.

[John Thurso]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. However, there are difficulties, namely, that most of the procurement that takes place in the House is subject to regulations, particularly European contracting regulations, which mean that one may express desires, but one is not always able to impose. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the House authorities are committed to providing apprenticeships, paid internships, and encouragement for young people from all backgrounds into good employment wherever they can.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

6. What the three most frequently borrowed books are in the Library in the current Parliament.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

The three books most frequently borrowed from the House of Commons Library between 7 May 2010 and 14 February 2013 were “How Parliament Works” by Robert Rogers and Rhodri Walters, borrowed 44 times, Erksine May’s “A Treatise upon the Law, Privileges, Proceedings and Usage of Parliament”, edited by the Clerk of the House, borrowed 33 times, and in third place “A Journey” by Tony Blair, borrowed 31 times.

[Thomas Docherty]

There is no surprise that the most popular book borrowed is a well-written and informative read, but does he share my disappointment at the lack of progress on a new and updated edition? Perhaps the Commission could consider some ways of encouraging progress. I understand that the rack has fallen out of fashionable use, but perhaps a spell clerking the Administration Committee or even the Travel Office consumer panel might encourage progress?

[John Thurso]

I am sure that both of those posts would be warmly welcomed by all conscientious Clerks, but the serious point that the hon. Gentleman makes that colleagues are using works that are possibly in need of updating will I am sure have been heard by those who may be responsible for it.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

7. What progress the Commission has made on reducing the subsidy on food and drink served in the House. [Official Report, 9 May 2013, Vol. 563, c. 1-2MC.]

[John Thurso]

The cost of the catering service is expected to have been reduced by £1.1 million over the past three years. It stood at £5.9 million in 2010-11 and £5.1 million in 2011-12. The forecast cost for the current financial year is £4.8 million. The current aim is to reduce the cost further so that by 2015 it should be reduced by £3 million, roughly half of what it was at the start of the Parliament.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s answer, but recent media reports that the subsidy for Parliament’s 19 restaurants, nine bars and the coffee shop has actually increased over the past year were met with dismay from many of our constituents across the country. In addition to what he has said today about reducing the cost of the House catering facilities, I urge him to look at moving even faster on the issue to ensure that all subsidy is removed as soon as possible.

[John Thurso]

We are certainly seeking to reduce the cost wherever possible, but there have been changes in the way we operate that make turnover more difficult. I point out that the key gross profit, or kitchen profit, made by the House’s outlets is fully comparable to what we would expect to find in industry. It is the other costs, caused largely by our sitting arrangements and the staffing required for that, that put us over into subsidy. That is the area currently being tackled by the business improvement plan.

[Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con)]

Should we not always think of the 12,000 or more passholders beyond the number of Members of Parliament, most of whom are on lower salaries, and consider that it is perfectly in order to have an element of subsidy? Those passholders include journalists who work in the House. Therefore, in trying to be prudent about bringing down the cost of the catering service, we should bear in mind that in many places of work it is quite normal to have an element of subsidy.

[John Thurso]

My right hon. Friend makes a valuable point. It is worth noting that the gross profit, or kitchen profit, made in the dining rooms is at the high end of the scale and extremely comparable to high street restaurants. The subsidy is needed far more in the canteens, which are enjoyed by passholders on far more modest salaries.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

9. What recent progress has been made on improvements to wi-fi on the parliamentary estate that will enable the use of internet radios in offices.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

Internet radio can be accessed over the parliamentary network from computers and mobile devices. Wi-fi is already available in many Members’ offices, and the remainder will have access by the end of next month. Dedicated wi-fi internet radio devices are not supported on the parliamentary infrastructure.

[Diana Johnson]

When away from one’s constituency it is very important to be able to access news. I set great store by listening to BBC Humberside’s news source, but it would be very helpful to be able to access it through the system on the estate. Will that be possible at the end of next month? When are we likely to be able to access regional live TV, which is also very useful for Members in keeping in touch with what is going on in their constituencies?

[John Thurso]

My understanding is that wi-fi internet radio devices are not accessible via the parliamentary infrastructure because only authorised parliamentary computing devices can be connected to it. However, I have taken note of the points that the hon. Lady has made, and I concur; I would love to be able to listen to Highland and Moray Firth radio. I will therefore, if I may, take it up with the relevant officials and come back to her with a fuller reply in writing.

Oral Answers to Questions

Viscount Thurso Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

1. What progress the Commission expects to make in the remainder of this Session on the renovation and renewal of the Houses of Parliament.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

At its October 2012 meeting, the Commission agreed to publish the report of the previous feasibility group and ask for a full independent analysis to be carried out of the various high-level options other than the option of a new building away from Westminster. The House Committee of the House of Lords reached a similar view. The results will be available in 2014 and will provide the basis for an informed decision about how exactly to proceed.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am most grateful for that answer. Given the need for an informed decision, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is vital that all stakeholders—the public, the press, those who work here and, of course, Members of both Houses—are fully engaged in the process leading up to that decision?

[John Thurso]

Indeed. The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point and the Commission is grateful to him for the part he played in advising the study group last year, together with the right hon. Member for Saffron Walden (Sir Alan Haselhurst) and two Members of the House of Lords. This will be a major project that will affect us all, and good consultation with all those involved will be vital to ensuring its success. I look forward, as I am sure the Commission does, to working with the hon. Gentleman and others to ensure that that happens.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

If the cheapest and quickest option for a complete renewal of the fabric of the Houses of Parliament is to close the Houses of Parliament and temporarily relocate them elsewhere, will the hon. Gentleman ensure that that option is put before the House so that Members can vote for or against it?

[John Thurso]

The purpose of the feasibility study now being undertaken is to ensure that there is accurate information, properly gathered by outside independent experts, so that all the options are based on fact, without any optimism bias. I cannot personally imagine a circumstance in which the House would not wish to express a view on what is best, but when the decision is made, after the information is available, it will be for the usual channels, whichever they are, to work out how to do that.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

If we were to move out, which I would not particularly object to if it were more cost-effective, and if, for instance, we were to move to a round chamber, such as that at Church house, where would the Liberal Democrats sit? Would they sit between Labour and the Conservatives? Would they sit to the far left or to the far right, or would they sit in the bishops’ seats?

[John Thurso]

I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question. That is beyond my pay grade in this role, but I assure him that wherever it was it would always be the right place.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

3. What use the Commission is making of price mechanisms to ensure maximum utilisation of House of Commons dining rooms on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday evenings.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

The recently endorsed Catering Services business improvement plan proposes the return of a variable tariff structure in the Members Dining Room. The Administration Committee will be consulted on the details shortly. This is in response to feedback from Members who had stopped using that service following the introduction of a fixed tariff. Catering Services has a three-month rolling marketing plan that highlights offers and promotions in all the catering outlets to generate more business. This plan will include the Dining Room.

[Mr Chope]

I thank my hon. Friend for that response. Last week, I dined on all three nights in the Dining Room and almost nobody else was present, but the service was fantastic because there were three servants for each person sitting down. [Hon. Members: “Servants?”] Exactly. Does my hon. Friend think that one way of engaging Members who do not use the Dining Room would be to offer them much cheaper rates when there is an opportunity for them to come along?

[John Thurso]

There is clearly a balance to be struck between attracting people in at the right price and prices being so low that they do not recover the appropriate cost. The House authorities strive to strike that balance appropriately. Work is being undertaken, particularly by the Administration Committee, but the key, driving factor is that the footfall in the Palace is dropping because of the change in hours, and I do not think any of us can do a great deal about that.

The Leader of the House was asked—

Oral Answers to Questions

Viscount Thurso Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

1. What the recycling rate has been for recyclable materials on the Commons part of the estate in each of the last five years.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

The percentage figures for the amount of general waste recycled or recovered by weight from the parliamentary estate in the last five financial years are as follows: 2007-08, 44%; 2008-09, 47%; 2009-10, 50%; 2010-11, 52%; and 2011-12, 53%. These figures are for the parliamentary estate as a whole, as we are not able to break down the figures by House or building. The percentages exclude batteries that are recycled but for which no weight figures are currently provided and builders’ waste. The figures include food waste, a proportion of which is being sent to an anaerobic digestion facility.

[Mr Hollobone]

It certainly seems encouraging that the recycling rate is going in the right direction. Is my hon. Friend satisfied with the progress being made? Perhaps lessons should be learned from some of the local authorities that have far higher recycling rates than we currently do in this House.

[John Thurso]

I do not believe that we should ever be content with where we have got to on recycling. The Commission and the Management Board are doing everything in their power to increase the recycling rate. As new recycling waste streams are developed, the House works closely with its waste contractor to maximise the opportunities to increase the rate, and the House will certainly be happy to look at any other authority that is an exemplar to see what it can learn.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

Will the Member representing the House of Commons Commission also look into the question of the non-recyclable items that are produced and used by the House, such as plastic wrappings and envelopes, with a view to ensuring that paper, which can be recycled more easily and cheaply, is used wherever possible?

[John Thurso]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that helpful suggestion, and we will certainly do that. I can tell him that a new collection process for office waste has recently been agreed, which will allow recyclables such as cans, plastic, paper and cardboard to be collected in one bin, with the segregation of materials taking place in a municipal recycling facility once the waste has left the estate. Clearly, development of that stream would lead us to the objective that he is seeking.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

2. What plans the Commission has to make it easier for hon. Members to procure administrative equipment centrally for the purpose of creating economies of scale.

[John Thurso]

The Commission appreciates the economies of scale that are achievable through central purchasing. In order to make such benefits available to individual Members, the House service and PICT have competitively tendered contracts for administrative equipment and consumables. PICT holds a number of contracts for ICT equipment and services, and it has recently let a contract with QC Supplies for printer cartridges and toner. The contract offers substantial discounts on original cartridges and on remanufactured cartridges with a full guarantee. Parliament has also recently let a contract with Banner Business Services for stationery and other office supplies. I have asked the managers responsible for those contracts to contact the hon. Lady to ensure that she is fully aware of what is available.

[Karen Lumley]

Does my hon. Friend agree that many Members are unaware of the opportunities to secure supplies centrally? What can the Commission do to increase awareness in that regard?

[John Thurso]

I have asked the House service and PICT to take further steps to provide Members and their staff with information on the contracts for toner and stationery. It is proposed to include articles on what is available and how to use the contracts in future issues of Commons Monthly and The Commons View. I suggest that all Members might like to take up readership of those two excellent publications. In the next few months, we will invite suppliers to mount exhibitions in the atrium of Portcullis House. The offers are also mentioned in the documentation from the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, and e-mails have been sent out. We will continue to do everything possible to popularise them.

The Leader of the House was asked—

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[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

4. What recent discussions the Commission has had with the Lords House Committee on greater sharing of service provision.

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)]

The Commission has had no recent discussions with the Lords House Committee on greater sharing of service provision, but the House administration remains very open to opportunities for areas where joint working with the House of Lords will provide benefits, while bearing it in mind that, on occasion, the priorities of the two Houses will diverge.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am grateful for that answer. We Scots know that Aberdonians have a particular reputation for knowing the value of tuppence. Given that Lord Sewel is now the Chairman of the Lords House Committee, does the hon. Gentleman think that there is a real opportunity in 2013 to make significant progress with the Commons Administration Committee’s recommendations on how to cut costs, cut bureaucracy and save the taxpayer money?

[John Thurso]

I believe there are significant opportunities. I had the opportunity to work with the noble Lord Sewel on the Scotland Bill in the other place, and I had a felicitous meeting with him at Aberdeen airport two weeks ago when we discussed this very subject. I look forward to making progress in the future.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

5. What progress has been made on work to update networking infrastructure on the estate to ensure that hon. Members’ offices can receive live local and regional television and radio programming and use internet radio devices in their offices.

[John Thurso]

Access to internet television and radio services in Members’ offices may be limited by the capacity of the parliamentary network. Planning for a major upgrade has started, but this is likely to be a long-term project. The annunciator system provides alternative access to television and radio services in Members’ offices. Following recent testing, it is hoped shortly to make proposals to enhance this service, including the provision of up to 100 additional channels. Wi-fi is already in place in 95 locations across the estate, including the Chamber, Committee Rooms and public spaces. It should be available in Members’ offices by March 2013.

[Diana Johnson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Although I welcome having channels such as al-Jazeera to keep up to date with international affairs and having access to Sky Sports in my office, I would certainly like to have access to my local BBC regional news, BBC Humberside. I am sure the hon. Gentleman agrees that keeping up to date with what is happening in a Member’s local area is just as important, if not more so, than having access to al-Jazeera and other channels.

[John Thurso]

I could not agree more with the hon. Lady. I miss BBC Radio Highland and Moray Firth Radio when I am down here in the south, and would greatly value the opportunity to receive them. There are significant technological difficulties, one of which relates to how the parliamentary estate is configured. I can assure her, however, that her point was well made and well taken. We will continue to see what can be done.

[Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is important to move as fast as we possibly can with full digitalisation, which not only provides the benefits that have been described but enables information about facilities in this House to be better known to all our colleagues?

[John Thurso]

I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend, whose Administration Committee is doing a great deal of work in this area. One opportunity will come when, in the next two or three years, we move towards the whole concept of cloud computing. That will offer a whole range of possibilities that currently are not technologically possible. We need to keep our eye on this ball and move it forward.

The Leader of the House was asked—

Drivers and Diabetes

Viscount Thurso Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I rise to raise the matter of type 2 driving licences for public service vehicles and large goods vehicles, particularly disqualification as a result of having insulin-dependent diabetes. I raise the matter primarily because a constituent, Mr Donald Campbell, has brought it to my attention, having had his licence removed in curious circumstances, which I will come to. However, I would like to say at the outset how grateful I am to Diabetes UK and other people who have been in touch to brief me on this debate.

May I say at the outset that I do not for one moment question that it is absolutely correct that, when medical conditions may cause a safety issue, they should be proscribed? A range of conditions are taken into account, and people who suffer from them, whether they hold group 1 or group 2 licences, may be prevented from driving. I do not for a moment question that. Having been a transport spokesman for my party two Parliaments ago, and having been a member of Standing Committees on various legislation, I am well aware of the importance of road safety and of this country’s extremely good track record. We obviously want to keep the number of deaths and injuries to an absolute minimum; we have a good track record compared with many other countries, and nothing should be done to prejudice that.

At the same time, although it is proper that people with some medical conditions should be prevented from driving, others—with proper supervision and consultation, perhaps with annual or periodic check-ups—should properly be permitted to drive. The other question is whether it is right to remove someone’s livelihood in the case of a group 2 licence when the example of other countries and, indeed, medical advice suggest that that is unnecessary.

I will give a rapid history, which I am sure the Minister is as well aware of as I am. The regulations precluding insulin-dependent diabetics from obtaining vocational licences were introduced in 1991, and annex III specifies that for drivers of LGVs and PCVs,

“driving licences shall not be granted or renewed for applicants or drivers who are diabetics needing insulin treatment”.

Since 1 April 1991, insulin-dependent diabetics have been barred by law from applying for such a licence, and indeed from renewal thereafter. A point in parenthesis is that those who held a licence under certain conditions had grandfather rights, and some people may still be driving with those rights. I will come to why that is important.

In August 2009, following reports from three medical working groups, the European Commission adopted an amending directive, 2009/113/EC, on the driving licence rules covering eyesight, epilepsy and diabetes. The change to the rules allows member states to issue group 2 licences to drivers with insulin-dependent diabetes when, in the opinion of a qualified medical practitioner, the condition is properly controlled and they pose no risk to themselves or other road users. That change should have been in force by August 2010, but the UK was unable to meet that deadline, and a consultation paper was eventually put out in February this year. The consultation has now closed, but I understand from a reply from the Minister to a parliamentary question that the Government are now saying that further input from some of those who have responded may be necessary. That is the situation at present.

My constituent, Donald Campbell, has type 2 diabetes. He was diagnosed in 2000, but was not treated with insulin until 2005, when he was advised by doctors to change his medication to slow-release insulin to protect his long-term health. Since then, his health has improved considerably, for which I am grateful, and at his annual check-ups his consultant tells him he is going from strength to strength. Mr Campbell notified the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority of his use of insulin in 2005, and his LGV licence was immediately withdrawn. However, two years later, in August 2007, the licence was reinstated. Mr Campbell was obviously extremely pleased about that, and returned to full-time driving with no problems. He renewed his licence in 2008 and 2009, so he had three years of driving. Not until last summer did the DVLA recognise that under the present regulations, it had reissued Mr Campbell’s group 2 licence wrongly. While Mr Campbell was driving, he experienced no problem whatever, and he has been driving alongside those with grandfather rights—hence their importance—and those from other EU countries who have already been given the right to drive on such licences. At the moment, his job is being held for him pending the possibility that the UK will catch up.

This is an opportunity for the Minister to right a long-standing wrong perpetrated by the EU. Had there been no original directive, undoubtedly the traditional elements of British fair play would have come into effect, and the sort of rules we are now contemplating would almost certainly have been those that Her Majesty’s Government adopted. It has come to pass that the EU, having seen the error of its ways, has put in place that which will allow the Minister to correct an obvious wrong—I know how much that will appeal to him. The change is open and available, and has been adopted by other EU countries, so it is peculiar that we are dragging our feet; perhaps the Minister will address the reason for that, and the safety aspect. Why are we content that drivers from all sorts of other countries enjoy that relaxation and are considered safe, but we do not extend that to our own people? Are there are any statistics showing whether insulin-dependent drivers are more likely than others to have an accident?

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate, which is not the first time in the last 15 years that the House has discussed the matter. I have had a similar debate. I suffer from diabetes, and I know people who can win gold medals, and others whom I would not trust to drive my lawn mower. The reality is that the decision should be based on an individual medical assessment, and I hope my hon. Friend agrees.

[John Thurso]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The whole point of my case is that the medical profession can, with considerable accuracy, state when people should be taken off the road—I am sure that they apply a precautionary principle—and when they may be allowed to continue to drive. I am particularly concerned about group 2 licences—commercial licences—and my constituent. I received a recent e-mail from him which sums up the situation:

“I am sorry to be such a pain”—

he is no pain at all, I hasten to add, and has been extremely patient—

“but I am so exasperated with the whole issue—every time they take my licence away I am left trying to keep things going financially and this time they have wiped me out…Between the worry of keeping the bank off my shoulders and the boss needing to know when I’m coming back to work, I am drained.”

That shows the personal impact on my constituent. Given that the rules may be about to change and that the Government have put forward proposals that would permit him, subject to medical examination, to get back on the road and back to work, I suspect that he feels a little like a mouse that is being toyed with by a cat. The Government owe their citizens better than that. I throw myself at the feet of the Minister, whom I know is an honest and honourable man, and plead with him to lift that burden from my constituent.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Riordan, as either a Back Bencher or as a Minister of the Crown. I hope to provide a little good news for the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso)—it is easier to say Hemel Hempstead, but I mean no slight on the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and congratulate him on securing this debate. I have been a Minister a little longer than some others who have held the post over the years—the average life expectancy of a Minister in my job is eight months, so a year and a bit is an exception. I have taken a particular interest in the case of Mr Campbell and, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman realises, in the involvement of the European Union in this great country of ours.

I will summarise the details of the case mentioned by the hon. Gentleman and endeavour to address some of the issues, particularly those relating to Mr Campbell. At the moment, the law is specific, which was not done on my watch—although it is my Department and the buck stops with me. When the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency gave the licence back to Mr Campbell, it messed up. I know that it wrote to him, and I have a copy of the letter, which could have been worded better and showed more empathy and understanding about the effect that the decision on his licence would have on Mr Campbell, his family and the company for which he worked. I apologise for that, and if Mr Campbell were present today, I would apologise to him personally. We need to address problems as we go forward. I cannot right the wrongs of the past, but we can try and ensure that they do not happen again. We must look at how best to address such situations, and avoid the foot-dragging to which the hon. Gentleman—probably quite rightly—has alluded.

The law in question concerns epileptic fits, diabetes and visual impairment. The consultation by the DVLA has been well taken up and a lot of work has been done. However, the situation is complicated, because the law includes those three areas. The areas of visual impairment and of fits are more complicated than that of diabetes, but all three issues have been rolled into one. The hon. Gentleman is right: ideally, we would have produced proposals to address all three areas by now, but, if I am honest, we will be unable to do that by the October deadline. As I have said to my officials, we will produce proposals on diabetes, which will be based on clinical advice. I will be subject to criticism from those involved in the other areas on which we are not yet ready to introduce proposals. My view, however, is that if we are ready to introduce proposals in one of those areas—by October, we should have a proposal on diabetes—we should go ahead and remove the blight that affects not only the hon. Gentleman’s constituent but many other people around the country.

It is imperative that we do that that without affecting road safety and, as the hon. Gentleman said in his opening remarks, that is the principle from which we start. The UK has a good record on road safety—indeed, we have the safest roads in the world. A new report on the number of people killed or seriously injured on the roads last year indicates that we are now doing even better. Over the years, we have struggled in some areas of road safety to get the right results, particularly concerning serious injuries for motorcyclists, but—as a biker, I declare an interest—we did particularly well in that area last year.

Of course, there are too many deaths, and we need to look at the core of the issue, which we are doing in the road safety strategy. It is, however, absolutely imperative that we do not use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Medically, the treatment of type 2 diabetes has moved on in leaps and bounds to say the least. I was a shadow Health Minister for three and a half years and I took a particular interest in the public health side of things. Soon, we will be moving away from injections altogether, because there will be aspirators, and we can make it much easier for diabetic patients to get on with their lives and address their insulin issues.

The issue of hypos is important, as are other matters such as visual impairment. My point of view as a non-medically trained Minister is that a clinician must decide whether someone in the groups that we are talking about—particularly group 2—is fit to drive. Hopefully we will bring forward proposals on diabetes in October. We are further behind in the other two areas and, as the hon. Gentleman said in his remarks, we need more consultation on those issues, in particular on the control of epileptic fits.

There is some concern from the road safety lobby that we will be reliant on people addressing their need for insulin treatment themselves. Two members of my family are reliant on insulin—one is a type 1 diabetic; the other is a type 2 diabetic. They sometimes get it wrong, and everybody understands that. We must have full confidence that if diabetes is controlled by insulin, the condition is stable and the clinicians are happy with the situation. If that is the case, we should be able to agree in October that after medical assessment and agreement—which will be continually assessed as things progress—we will allow insulin-reliant diabetics in the classes mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, and particularly those in group 2, to drive. I said that there is some good news.

That will not, however, address the problems experienced by Mr Campbell. Under the present rules, the DVLA was right to take his licence away and fundamentally wrong to give it back and not to pick up the mistake sooner. Everybody makes mistakes, but it is crucial to ensure that such things happen as little as possible, because they have such dramatic effects on people’s lives.

The hon. Gentleman asked whether statistics are available to show whether diabetics who are reliant on insulin are more likely to be involved in an accident. As I understand it, we do not have such statistics and when the European Commission looked into the matter, it used the fact that there was no evidence available to change its mind. As hon. Members will realise, I am ever so slightly Eurosceptic, so it is great news that UK plc is again allowed to be in control of procedures and safety on our roads. Our borders are open to anybody from the European economic area or the EU who wishes to drive in this country, which is right and proper.

I fully accept that other countries have moved faster than us, but they do not have roads that are as safe as ours. Many of their Ministers and officials come to see me to see how we manage to have such safe roads. If they were slightly more vigilant in how they enforce road safety, the position might be different. In the area that we are debating today, they may have got things right a little more quickly than us. I fully accept that there is an anomaly between on the one hand drivers with grandfather rights and overseas drivers and on the other hand UK citizens who are being penalised. I think that we will be able to wipe that away very soon—in October, I hope.

[John Thurso]

I am extremely grateful for the reply that the Minister is making, in terms of both the tone—I am sure that my constituent will have noted his remarks and be grateful for them—and the good news in respect of diabetes. The Minister has mentioned October. Will that be when the Government promulgate the change to the regulations? Am I therefore accurate in saying to my constituent that he might look forward to being able to take the medical exam in October, permitting him to go back to work shortly thereafter?

[Mike Penning]

I think that Mr Campbell should be at the front of the queue in October—I think that that is the least we can do for him. I hope that he sees that the Minister understands what went wrong and is trying to address the matter as soon as possible. Yes, we will move the relevant orders in October, when the House returns from recess. The process will start in October in relation to the particular area of diabetes, and more work is required in the other areas. I hope that people understand that I need more time on the other two medical conditions.