Spring Statement

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I agree with much of what the noble Lord says: supporting carers is very important. He talked about the spending review leaving them unsupported. Of course, the spending review has not yet taken place; it will take place in June of this year, and I think perhaps we should wait until the spending review reports to see what it has to say.

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

Some 250,000 more people will be plunged into poverty, including 50,000 children. The OBR forecasts lower employment as a direct result of Labour’s welfare announcements, with unemployment rising overall and even more applications for PIP with changes to the UC health element. We will face the worst of all worlds, with arbitrary cuts and the Government dismissively discarding the previous Government’s proposals. Over 1 million people will be impacted; they face fear every day. When will the Government communicate to those people individually how they will be impacted, so that we do not see a rise in the genuine distress that people are facing right now?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her concern. She talks about employment, but, according to the OBR, it will rise by 1.2 million people over the course of the forecast, so I am not sure that what she is saying there is correct. As I have said repeatedly during this Question, the impact assessment she refers to takes no account of the £1 billion investment in helping people get back into work, so I am afraid that the impact assessment figures she is using are not correct. The OBR will look at the additional £1 billion over the course of the summer and come back with an updated impact assessment that takes it into account.

Finance Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading
Wednesday 19th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Caine of Kentish Town, on her eloquent maiden speech. Both she and the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, referred to the audiovisual industry, or the film and TV industry, and the noble Baroness was right to explain what a successful part of the United Kingdom this is. The noble Lord, Lord Smith, has been praised, understandably, but I extend some praise to George Osborne. He appeared in the credits of a “Star Wars” film, recognising that he took the opportunity to create tax credits that attracted the franchise back into Pinewood. Indeed, further changes have meant that Warner Bros set up a studio. I am sure that, when we are looking at a good film, we can recognise the contributions of all the parties that have been in Government in making sure that we have this thriving industry.

On thriving industry, it is important to think about how Finance Bills generally are there to attract investment and raise money, as well as to drive change in innovation and behaviour. I welcome that the 100% expensing has been maintained in this Finance Bill, which is a sensible approach.

Clause 56 builds on the Financial Services and Markets Act 2023. On a recent trip to the London Stock Exchange, organised by the Industry and Parliament Trust, I learned about PISCES. Stamp duty exemption is going to be important to attract investment in young companies, so that we make sure that we grow more businesses in this country, rather than just seeing them acquired abroad.

I welcome Clause 61, about agricultural property relief. Although I am not going to go into the farmers’ tax, because that is for another Bill, I welcome the environmental management agreements exemption that replaces the exemption for habitats in the Finance Act 1997. As Secretary of State for the Environment, I lobbied to try to make sure that landowners did not stop investing in nature because of this, and I am pleased that the Government have brought through the detailed regulations to make that happen.

However, in a number of other clauses, I am trying to understand the psyche of the Government and what they are trying to do to change behaviour. Clause 78 relates to the plastic packaging tax, which is just going up by inflation. The resources and waste strategy, which I principally authored, was intended to make sure that packaging materials had at least 30% recycled plastic and to drive activity towards that.

It would be worth while now to do a review of whether that has had the desired impact. In some of my discussions with food companies during the time of Covid regarding the challenge of the cost of living and what measures could be done there, several of the companies said, “Well, it would make more financial sense for our financial director to just pay the tax rather than make the changes”. To their credit, they kept to it, trying to reduce the use of virgin plastic, but I am concerned, with some of the winds that are happening in the world’s economy, about whether we might see any companies going back. So it would be worth while doing a review in that regard.

On Clause 76, landfill tax reform is a great example, which is cited around the world in environmental conferences, of a change in behaviour that has basically driven a lot of landfill more to recycling. There may be more to do on incineration, but it has been hugely successful. I noted the significant increase—I think it is about 24%—but I believe that is connected to the fact that we have had high inflation for a couple of years.

However, I was concerned about comments made by the Economic Secretary in the other place relating to Clause 79, and this is to do with the soft drinks levy. There is going to be a 27% uplift. Now, this tax initiative did make lots of firms reformulate, which is good for public health and for the prevention of issues later. However, the rationale given by the Minister was simply that, “Oh well, previous Governments hadn’t raised this since 2018”. Part of the issue is that in effect the tax had more or less done its job. I worry about this backdating approach simply because we have not caught up. I am not suggesting that the Government are going to do this, but, if we took the same approach to fuel duty, we would be looking at a 64% increase. So I hope the Minister will rule out any backdating measure.

I am conscious that we have an advisory time limit but I have one final point that has been strongly missing, and it comes back to farmers. Despite the fiscal plan on Labour’s website saying there will be investment in reducing tax avoidance, the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State, Steve Reed, have encouraged people to properly manage their tax affairs and advocated tax planning to minimise their tax liability. There is one gap, and that is connected to the tax treatment of double cab pick-ups. The original legal case relates to Coca-Cola. I am conscious that a lot of firms—I am particularly thinking of forestry and many rural farmers—are being hit by this. It really is not fair on them, relating to something that they have invested in to do their business. I ask the Government to think again in their next Finance Bill.

Low and No-Tax Jurisdictions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con) (Maiden Speech)]

My Lords, it is a huge privilege to have been introduced to this House last week, thanks to the recommendation to His Majesty the King by the leader of the Opposition, the right honourable Kemi Badenoch. I want to thank everybody who has made me feel most welcome. That starts with Black Rod and her team of excellent doorkeepers, under the stewardship of Mr Ingram; to the security team who keep us safe; to the Library, who feed our minds; to the catering team, who feed us and keep us going; to the cleaners, who keep this space spotless and sparkling; to all the clerks, who have helped me navigate this familiar, yet new, territory; and indeed everyone who contributes to enable this extraordinary, hallowed atmosphere in which we operate and seek to do our level best in the important constitutional role that we undertake.

I also want to thank my supporters who introduced me last week: first, the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, whom I first met when I unexpectedly became Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. She was my absolute rock and I learned so much from her, as I am doing now. As for the noble Baroness, Lady Pidding, I first met her over 20 years ago and we have been friends ever since. She has been a constant source of encouragement to me.

However, I would not be here at all if it were not for my family. It was particularly emotional when I was introduced last Tuesday, as it was precisely six months after my dear mother passed away. She loved Parliament and she loved politics. She loved coming to Westminster, particularly to the River Restaurant, where she would be called “M’Lady”—she loved that. She was a teacher, as was my father, who had passed away some years earlier. I held his Bible in my hand as I swore the oath. My sister was in the Gallery, and she genuinely saved my life seven years ago when, thanks to her tenacity with the NHS, I had an emergency operation for a brain abscess, which thankfully was successful.

As a family, we were all involved at some point in the Conservative Party in Liverpool, where I grew up in Grassendale, leading to its inclusion in my longer title. My political awareness was triggered by Militant Labour’s running of my home city, when, yes, my parents, as teachers, were part of the thousands who received their redundancy notices. That was when I realised that politics—who ran the council or country—mattered.

I certainly enjoyed my time as a Back-Bencher representing the people and businesses of Suffolk, and I reflect my love for Suffolk in my longer title with the town of Saxmundham, where I live. I should alert your Lordships that, when I left government, I became the Back-Bencher who spoke the most in the final six months of the last Parliament. I think it was the ability to speak for the first time on any topic that inspired me to pronounce on a variety of issues, recognising that I had been a Minister continuously for over nine years—two-thirds of my parliamentary career there. But I have that out of my system and I expect to be able to focus on some particular areas—but those will be of my choice in this House. Prime Ministers have made choices for me, on where I specialised and gained most experience and expertise, particularly in three departments—Defra, Health and Social Care, and Work and Pensions—where I had the privilege of being Secretary of State. I will endeavour, to the best of my ability, to really embrace the huge positivity of this House in its key role of scrutinising legislation and the Executive.

I know government is hard. I actually want the Government to do well, for the sake of the great people of our great nation. While I am sure we will disagree on certain aspects of policy or how we can improve the performance of our public services, I am united in wanting a strong NHS, a strong economy and for our country to succeed. I have long admired the tone of this House, with keen and courteous scrutiny at its heart, somewhat in sharp contrast to the other place where, sadly, the focus has become the social media clip rather than the social discourse and debate we used to have.

I hope that I have already accrued some credits in my apprenticeship for this place, by learning from all the Lords Ministers with whom I worked in government. There are several to name. However, I will save that for another day, but I can assure noble Lords that I recognise both how hard Lords Ministers work and the contribution to scrutiny made by this House, with its gentle peer pressure in trying to improve the legislation and performance of government for the greater good, even if, at times, it did not feel quite so gentle.

I am conscious that beyond the Chamber there is a wider community of Parliament in which I seek to play to a role. I have already started attending APPG events on the ocean, nature, trees and energy, and I look forward to the annual tug-of-war for charity. I certainly hope to provide some balance—if not some ballast—to help the Baronesses defeat the Commons for the first time.

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear!

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

I know that I am making my maiden speech in this House perhaps much earlier than the norm. I could say it is because I am interested in the topic, as I worked as a finance director for a subsidiary of the multinational company Mars, Incorporated, so I am fully aware of the issue of corporate taxation and transfer pricing—more on that later. But I confess that the real reason for speaking today is that I am really keen to speak in Monday’s Moses Room debate on the statutory instrument about bins—yes, bins. Bins, potholes and pavements are the basics of local political life and, when they are not working well, people notice and get fed-up very quickly. However, I shall save my further remarks until next week.

I turn now to today’s debate on multinationals and corporate taxation. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, on securing this debate. As a Professor of Accounting at the University of Sheffield, I know he has focused considerably on this issue. I bring my experience from business. I qualified as a chartered management accountant while working for Mars, Incorporated, and I certainly enjoyed the intellectual challenge of taxation. I think it wise at this point that I declare that I have a deferred pension with Mars, which is a multinational corporation.

My curiosity about corporate taxation was triggered when I did a summer placement with Ernst & Young. I had the joy of spending a week with the VAT team just as they were in court helping their client to persuade the judiciary that, yes indeed, a Jaffa cake is a cake, not a biscuit. With that, their product would continue to be zero-rated for VAT and therefore cheaper to the consumer. There is a saying in accountancy that “Profit is vanity, balance is sanity and cash is reality”. The reality for business is that tax is cash and, whether it is cash flow keeping the business afloat, paying salaries and bills, or investing cash in new capital equipment or intellectual capital, every good business will have a focus on tax, tax rates and the rules set out by legislatures around the world on how it manages its operations.

We also know that Governments require steady tax receipts in order to provide good public services. It was my tax training and business experience that gave me the confidence early on in my parliamentary career to point out to the then Chancellor, George Osborne, that several of the banks, particularly RBS, probably would not pay any corporation tax for a very long time as they could roll over all their losses from the financial crash, year after year. I am pleased to say that then led to a change in policy, so tax losses can only be rolled over for six years.

It is important that tax be fair. We should recognise that corporate tax rates and the overall tax burden on companies need to be fair and competitive if we want the economy to grow. We saw how the economy of the Republic of Ireland was massively boosted when it cut its corporation tax rate to12.5% and many companies flocked there, particularly IT companies. That is why the work on transfer pricing, to which the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, referred, has been so important, as ultimately businesses can choose where their headquarters or their science and innovation hubs, or their other key assets, are.

Transfer pricing is a fundamental concept in international taxation and corporate finance. It is the way that profits are shared around the world. It involves the pricings of goods, services and intangible assets when they are exchanged between related entities within a corporate group—inter-company transfers of goods or services. Transfer pricing delivers the necessary compliance on taxation and it can be a valuable tool for companies to become more efficient, to manage risk and to bolster economic development in countries and communities.

Importantly, especially with the OECD guidelines, transfer pricing is designed to ensure fair competition. It was the Conservative-led Government, using their leadership of the G8 back in 2013, who first brought this issue to task on the global stage after the financial crisis of the late noughties. It was agreed at the G8, and then at the G20 later that year, to have the OECD establish guidelines, as the useful Library briefing points out. The OECD completed its guidelines on BEPS—base erosion and profit shifting. A significant element was introducing the arm’s-length principle, which suggests that intercompany prices should align with those charged between unrelated parties in a competitive market. This principle serves as a cornerstone for many countries’ transfer pricing regulations, promoting fairness and transparency.

By appropriately allocating profits and costs among subsidiaries, companies can mitigate the risk of double taxation, which occurs when two or more jurisdictions impose taxes on the same income. Additionally, transfer pricing can help manage operational risks associated with currency fluctuations, and by adjusting transfer prices to account for exchange rate movements companies can stabilise their financial results, providing greater predictability in earnings and cash flows. This stability is crucial for long-term strategic planning and investment decisions.

Another important merit of transfer pricing is its contribution to promoting fair competition. By adhering to the arm’s-length principles, companies are incentivised to price their goods and services fairly. That practice helps prevent anti-competitive behaviour for local businesses which otherwise could be undercut by aggressive tax planning.

Overall, this is all useful in trying to make sure that we keep up to date in having that level playing field around the world. In June 2019, G20 Finance Ministers agreed to update the OECD proposals, known as BEPS 2, with two main interlocking pillars. Pillar 1 re-allocates part of the profits of the largest and most profitable multinationals from where they earn income to where they sell products and services; pillar 2 would impose a 15% minimum tax on global corporate profits based on the residence of the corporation. I understand that the 15% minimum tax has been controversial, as it removes one of the levers of agile, growing economies. I am also aware that the new US Administration have expressed concerns. However, this is a useful mechanism to make sure that there is fairness around the world.

For what it is worth, I think our time would be better focused on making the most of our investment zones and freeports, as well as stabilising tax legislation to give businesses certainty and confidence to invest here and help boost our economy. We should continue to welcome the many corporations that are based here and be mindful of the reasons why some companies are moving their corporate headquarters elsewhere.

Companies and communities need each other. Together, companies and communities can and must profit from each other—something on which I hope all noble Lords would agree.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

If the right hon. Lady listened to my comments carefully, and I do not always give her credit for that, she would know that our policy is to abolish employees’ national insurance, and that means we want to bring it down to zero. If Labour’s strategy is to win the election by frightening pensioners with fake news stories, I would just say that Britain deserves better.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

T8. The taskforce on nature-related financial disclosures came out with its framework last year. I would like an update on where we are with the International Sustainability Standards Board approach, because just as it has been a huge success for companies and for UK plc to switch to the recommendations of the taskforce on climate-related financial disclosure, it is vital for our planet that we also start to have the TNFD framework as standard right across the board.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Bim Afolami)]

My right hon. Friend is right that this issue is critical. I am pleased that the ISSB recently announced its intention to commence a research project on a nature thematic standard, carefully considering the TNFD’s recommendations. His Majesty’s Government have established a formal mechanism to assess the ISSB standards for suitability for the UK to ensure that with a general sustainability standard, and more specifically with a climate sustainability standard, we are doing the right thing for the UK. The Government will publish an implementation update on sustainability disclosure requirements shortly to provide further information for industry—watch this space.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

I gently say to the right hon. Lady that I stand by every word I said when I gave evidence, twice, to the infected blood inquiry. The Government have an absolute moral responsibility, not just to pay the compensation owed, but to pay it as speedily as possible.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I would like to join the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Anna Firth) in discussing the closure of banks. Barclays bank, in particular, is both shameful and shameless in this regard. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need full transparency on the decisions made by Link and the Financial Conduct Authority? Something we learned yesterday that may be of interest to those in Chorley, Mr Speaker, is that the criteria take into consideration only the town plus areas within a 1 km circumference. That is not how the rural economy works. Will the Economic Secretary work with me to ensure that the criteria take into account the wider economy?

[Bim Afolami]

My right hon. Friend is another good example of a Member who is an excellent champion for her constituents, on this issue and so many others. As for her specific point, it is right for the industry to work out how it will increase provision and adapt the criteria for rural areas, but I will work with her to ensure that the banking hubs are rolled out in an equitable way, to rural as well as more urban areas.

Building Societies Act 1986 (Amendment) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 19th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

It is a huge pleasure able to join Friday business as a Back Bencher and to support this important Bill on behalf of my Mid Norfolk constituents. Let me start by congratulating the hon. Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) on introducing the Bill and on winning that prized first place in the ballot, so that she can make a difference with the Bill. I thank the Government for working with her and all of us who have supported her on the Bill. This is a good example of cross-party work, and of the Government working with Back Benchers in the interests of our constituents and the shared and mutual interests of the citizens of this country. I only wish more people around the country were able to see the quality of the work going on in the House on days like this.

I want, particularly, to highlight the importance of the Bill for rural areas such as mine. The hon. Lady represents the magnificently urban constituency of Sunderland Central, but I represent a magnificently the rural constituency of Mid Norfolk—114 villages and five towns. As I candidate, I rashly promised to cycle the border one Saturday morning, but then discovered it was 94 miles long. It took me rather more than one Saturday morning. Much of this country is rural, up north as well as down south and in the south west. I want to focus on the importance of the Bill and building societies in rural areas and on our town high streets in providing cash facilities, and supporting first time-buyers and pensioners with cash.

In Dereham recently, I saw Nationwide packed, with queues outside of pensioners moving from the bank, which is closing, to support Nationwide, as Nationwide supports them. In my part of the country we have a huge number of retired folk who want cash—they do not all want to be totally digital. They value and need that interaction with a living and breathing human being when they go to save or take out cash. Nationwide Building Society is doing great work to support them. I am really keen to support the Bill, as the hon. Lady knows, largely because of that particular rural need.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I should declare that I am a member of three building societies, and until recently I had a mortgage with Nationwide. I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of building societies in rural communities. I think of local examples such as Suffolk Building Society, but elsewhere around the country there is Newbury Building Society and similar. That connection to the community really matters. It is important to get on with this primary legislation, but we also need to get the negative secondary regulations through as quickly as possible so that we can boost mortgage borrowing for families who are keen to get on to the housing ladder.

[George Freeman]

I completely agree—my right hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and we will come to that in due course. She is absolutely right.

I want to focus on building societies in rural areas. The flight of the banks, in particular from rural areas but also from a lot of high street banking and the role they have traditionally carried out—this is partly why the Bill is so important—highlights the importance of cash in the rural economy. Many of my local small businesses are really struggling with how to bank cash properly. We also have a problem in our part of the world with ATMs now being subject to JCB theft—ATMs being ripped out of the wall. So, there is a cash problem and building societies have a really important role.

As well as reflecting the very best of old Labour, this is also, if I may say so, the very best of civic conservatism. This is Edward Burke’s little platoons. This is the weft and the warp of local connected responsible civic community-based capitalism; the sort of capitalism that small platoon civic conservatism has long championed. I would argue that all parties in Government over the past 40 years have slightly forgotten that that needs to be championed. We have seen the rise and the domination of big capital, big banks and big disconnected capitalism. I am here today as a card-carrying supporter of the mutuality model and civic capitalism. I think both main parties have that in common in their different traditions and history.

On rural banking and finance, in Mid Norfolk we have five towns and 114 villages. We are not quite halfway between Cambridge and Norwich. Traditionally, it has been something of a rural backwater. It is an agricultural community, with many retirees and pensioners moving to quiet rural Norfolk. It is a real challenge to ensure that our villages remain vibrant and our towns remain thriving. The model of development over the past 40 years has been over-focused on commuter housing. People drive their cars to Norwich and Cambridge during the day, and that sucks the life out of many of our villages.

The rise of online commerce and digital retail has also taken quite a lot of the life out of many of our towns, and our high streets are struggling to remain vibrant. The Government’s moves to reduce business rates has helped, but the pandemic and the cost of energy crisis, coming off the back of the Ukraine war, has hit rural areas disproportionately hard. That is a theme I will be picking up in the coming months in this House in the run-up to the Budget. Everyone has been hit by the cost of energy increase of course, but in rural areas there is a double triple whammy. Every member of staff in a company has to drive. Most of my relatively low-paid working families have one, two or three cars. They are not a luxury; they need them to be able to get to work. All our public services are hit—our bus services and our county council services—all across rural areas. We are paying a double whammy because of an over-dependency on transport and heating. That huge rural impact is hitting remote backwater rural areas very hard, particularly in my part of Norfolk.

In that context, it is urgent that we encourage the revival of the rural economy. I have long believed and campaigned locally that, with a slightly different approach to planning and development in our area, we could trigger something of a rural renaissance, with many small businesses popping up off the back of the Cambridge phenomenon and the Norwich Research Park. Small businesses often start off by working from home or looking for converted farm units; they are not in the city centre, but distributed. If we can get more businesses back into villages and small towns, we will have more people of working age in communities during the day. That will reduce congestion and commuting.

The model of a vibrant rural economy is key to so many of the priorities of successive Governments. We will never get to net zero if we keep shovelling people into cars and making them commute long distances in congested traffic jams. The more we can get people to work from home or nearer to home, travelling when they need to during the day and not in peak hours, the better. That vision of rural renaissance is key, but it will never happen if young people cannot afford to buy a house near to where they work, if thriving businesses on the high street are unable to cash-up, save and deposit cash safely, and if pensioners are unable to save, take out their deposits and interact with banking in the way they have for the past 50 or 60 years. We need to ensure that we build an economy for the people who live there.

That is what my campaign, The Norfolk Way, is all about. It is a project to promote that vision of rural growth. The Bill touches on much of that. One has only to see the flight of the mainstream banks out of such areas—I know that colleagues in other constituencies see that—and the desperation that people feel, whether they are first-time buyers or pensioners.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Laura Trott]

I do not know what more I can add to my last answer. This was done very quickly, at pace, because we were desperate to get PPE to the frontline as quickly as possible. We have set up initiatives to recoup money from fraudulent activity including the Public Sector Fraud Authority, which has already saved taxpayers £311 million in the first year of operation.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

16. If he will make mandatory the recommendations on reporting of the taskforce on nature-related financial disclosures.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Bim Afolami)]

This Government have been one of the largest donors to the global market-led taskforce on nature-related financial disclosures—TNFD—initiative. We will consider how best the TNFD’s recommendations should be incorporated into policy and legislative architecture in a manner that is coherent with global sustainability reporting.

[Dr Coffey]

Merry Christmas to you, Mr Speaker, and to the officers, Clerks and staff of the House. I am encouraged by my hon. Friend’s answer. It was a year ago today that the global biodiversity framework was agreed in Montreal, and it was absolutely necessary to restore biodiversity loss. The TNFD initiative was launched by the UK G7 presidency in 2021 and it featured in the green finance strategy that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor and I did the ministerial foreword to earlier this year. He will be aware of the recommendations that were launched in September. I am conscious that there was a lot of support from the Treasury previously and that we should try to accelerate the International Sustainability Standards Board standards so that we can bring in this initiative just as successfully as we have done for the TCFD—the taskforce on climate-related financial disclosures.

[Bim Afolami]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her question. She mentions the Treasury’s green finance strategy, which contains plans to bring forward the sustainability disclosure requirements, building on the global commitments. We have already implemented the climate-related financial disclosures, and we are looking very carefully at the nature-related financial disclosures. We hope to update the House in due course.

Tackling Short-term and Long-term Cost of Living Increases

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

Given the right hon. Gentleman’s experience, he will know, perhaps better than me, that there are multiple different benefits on multiple different systems, and while universal credit does have the flexibility of being changed at different times—a policy, by the way, that the Labour party opposed at every step of the way—the remainder of benefits and pensions cannot be uprated mid-year. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions will speak to that later.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

indicated assent.

[Rishi Sunak]

None the less, I am glad to see that the right hon. Gentleman supports universal credit. That is one thing that the Government are proud of introducing. The benefit can respond in a crisis, as it so admirably did.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Ashworth]

We are pushed for time, so I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon—but he can have a word with me when he is voting with us in the Lobby later.

Look at the realities facing our constituents: the cost of pasta is up 10%; milk, cheese and eggs, up 8.6%; butter, up 9.6%; cooking oils and fats, up 18%. And the message from Ministers? “Just purchase supermarket own brand.” “Buy value beans”—the new three-word slogan from the Tory party.

Another quotation of which the Chancellor may be aware is from Milton Friedman; I know the Chancellor is a big fan. Milton Friedman said:

“Inflation is taxation without legislation”.

But the Chancellor has legislated. Instead of helping people on universal credit, he legislated to cut universal credit in real terms—a loss of around £500. Instead of helping pensioners with the triple lock, the Government legislated to impose the biggest real-terms cut to the pension for 50 years, meaning a cut of more than £420 for the typical retiree.

The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is about to embark on a programme of cutting the incomes of some of the most vulnerable people on legacy benefits as they migrate to universal credit. But it does not have to be like this, because—as the Chairs of the Treasury Committee and the Work and Pensions Committee, many charities and the Institute for Fiscal Studies have said—one could bring forward a proportion of the benefit increase pencilled in for 2023 today. Indeed, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury said a few weeks ago at the Dispatch Box that the 2023 increase in benefits and the pension will take account of inflation. The Government are promising to increase benefits and the pension in line with inflation in 2023, but in the meantime are sending the very poorest on a rollercoaster. Some 500,000 children will be pushed into absolute poverty.

To be fair to the Chancellor, he said, “We looked at this, but the IT system said no”. As many Members have said, it is a shame that his computer didn’t say no when he was cutting universal credit by £20. But I have been given a briefing note by Oracle, which I understand provides the IT systems for the Department for Work and Pensions, entitled: “How DWP transformed the backbone of the UK benefits system”. The note says that the changes that made to the computer system

“has built automation into…management—this allows DWP to make changes every week, rather than having to plan six months in advance”.

Mr Mark Bell, who is the deputy director at the Department for Work and Pensions, said:

“This has been widely recognised as one of the best technical achievements delivered by DWP Digital for many years…It also enabled us to make further digital enhancements to benefit millions of UK citizens.”

Technical lead Mr Nick Cutting says that this has brought “flexibility” and that it led to the Department being able to do things it

“never could have done, or that would have taken significant time at a significant cost”

if it was still running on legacy infrastructure. You see, Madam Deputy Speaker, the truth is that it is not the mainframe that is preventing the Government from acting; it is their frame of mind.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

I appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman used to be a political adviser to the previous Government, but they did not have universal credit. What he is describing is universal credit, a system that the Labour party has consistently opposed. That is why we are able to make the changes; it is true and accurate, as he has just read out to the House, that it is the legacy systems that are the problem. That is why we cannot simply change the rates of all benefits as he wants us to do. The point is that we cannot do that, and he has read out the reasons to the House.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

The right hon. Lady has just confirmed that she is refusing to increase universal credit, with the consequence that 500,000 extra children will be pushed into poverty—[Interruption.] I am not misleading the House. I remember meeting her for negotiations over the pandemic legislation. We met in the offices of the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. We said that we needed more support on universal credit and we came to an arrangement. She also gave a lump sum to those on working tax credit, which is a legacy payment. So if there is a will, the Government can do it, but the truth is that they do not want to do it.

The reality is that if the Government wanted to lift children out of poverty, they could do it. If they wanted to lift pensioners out of poverty, they could do it. If they wanted to prevent 250,000 families from being pushed into destitution, they could do that too. The fact that they will vote against the amendment in the Lobby tonight tells us everything we need to know about this Tory party. For them, rising child poverty is a price well worth paying.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

It is an honour to conclude this debate on the Gracious Speech. Understandably, a lot of people have contributed today. I want to take this opportunity to join right hon. and hon. Members in paying tribute to Her Majesty in her platinum jubilee year. This is a Queen’s Speech that will deliver for the British people: safer streets, stronger schools, a secure supply of energy, speedier access to social security for those people near the end of their lives, streamlined financial services unlocking investment, stripping out unwanted EU regulation, and legislation to help level up across the United Kingdom. All these measures will help to grow the economy, which will help to address the cost of living challenge that families are facing.

We should remember that this is a global challenge. Countries around the world are having to deal with inflation, and the covid aftershocks are still ripping through the world’s supply chains. On top of that, Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine has exacerbated spiking energy prices. On this side of the House, we are the champions of freedom and democracy around the world and it is right that we do all we can to end Putin’s onslaught, but sanctions are not cost-free for us here at home. They come on top of the impact from covid. These are global inflationary forces, and it would be wrong to pretend that we can protect everyone from their impact.

Thanks to our strong recovery from the pandemic and having got the big calls right over the last two years—such as our plan for jobs—we have helped families across the country. We can see that in the labour market statistics published today. Our unemployment rate today is below the low level we saw before the pandemic. Not only that, it is the lowest since 1974. The number of people on payrolls is at a record high, and over half a million more people are now benefiting from a regular pay packet than in February 2020.

I am also delighted to say that we have met our 2017 commitment to get 1 million more disabled people into employment in 10 years. In fact, we announced today that we have hit 1.3 million more people. That is good news for people with disabilities and it is good news for the economy too. The level of youth unemployment is now at a record low. This means greater security, more financial resilience and better prospects for people.

[David Linden]

The Secretary of State talks about employment, but when I go to my local food banks, one of the things that people tell me on a regular basis is that the number of people using the food banks as a result of in-work poverty is up. What does her local food bank tell her?

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that food banks are present and providing support in many communities, especially where people are trying to work out the best way to spend their resources. He mentions in-work poverty, and it is why we have a plan for in-work progression, why we have been investing in skills, why we are investing in our jobcentres and why, through the plan for jobs, we are doing more to help people not only to get back into work but to get on in work too. That is what we are doing.

On top of the activity we have been undertaking, there are things we can do and are doing to cushion families from the worst effects of inflation and to ease the squeeze on household budgets. As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out, £22 billion has already been committed to support the hardest hit this year. The £150 of support for households in bands A to D is landing in people’s bank accounts, with a further £144 million discretionary fund available to councils. From October, the £200 reduction in energy bills will help families spread this year’s increased costs over the next few years.

We initiated the household support fund, through which we invested £500 million across the UK to help with the cost of household essentials. We are increasing that to £1 billion every year. For the second phase of the grant we have put a particular focus on people on fixed incomes, which is why a third is ringfenced for pensioners. That is on top of existing targeted support such as the warm home discount, cold weather payments and winter fuel payments. We are stepping in at this challenging time, and we are ready to do more to help.

We are discussing an Opposition amendment, and I make it clear that we will reject all Opposition amendments to the Queen’s Speech as a matter of precedent. The Queen’s Speech sets out the Government’s legislative programme for the year, and it is for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor to introduce fiscal measures, and he will make all future decisions on tax in the usual way. I reiterate that he told the House today that no option is off the table.

We know that the best way to raise living standards over the long term is to grow the economy, to invest in skills and to get people moving into and progressing in decent jobs. The latest statistics cut through the Opposition’s charge that poverty has increased since the Conservatives came into power. There are 1.2 million fewer people, including 200,000 fewer children and half a million fewer working-age adults, in absolute poverty, before housing costs, than in 2010. In March we published statistics that, for the first time, combine absolute low income and material deprivation among working-age people. Those statistics show a fall of three percentage points, from 3.1 million when we came into power to 2.2 million in 2019-20.

[Alan Brown]

Will the Secretary of State remind the House of how much money the Treasury puts towards the warm home discount?

[Dr Coffey]

The hon. Gentleman is trying to be clever, as he knows the answer is that it is a redistribution within the energy policy. [Interruption.] Would he rather not have it? Would he rather be with his fellow SNP people who voted against any rise in benefits at all? That is what several of his colleagues did. They did not vote for a lift in benefits.

After a decade of rising employment, we are building on our track record. We are ensuring that people have stronger incentives to work and can keep more of what they earn. Some 1.7 million working people on universal credit are, on average, £1,000 a year better off following our cut to the taper rate. Last month’s 6.6% rise in the national living wage has provided the lowest paid with an increase of £1,000 a year in their income, and in July the increase in the national insurance threshold will benefit 30 million working people, with a typical employee saving over £330 a year.

[Stephen Timms]

The Secretary of State mentioned today’s labour market statistics. Will she confirm that they show there are now half a million fewer people in employment than before the pandemic?

[Dr Coffey]

In my discussions with the chief statistician, he has said that more people are on the payroll than ever before. That is good news. I am conscious that there are people who are economically inactive, and the Government will set out how to challenge that. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, my main priority is those people to whom we pay benefits to look for work and making sure they get into work, but of course we will be extending our activity to try to get people back into the marketplace who have dropped out since the covid pandemic.

As I pointed out, 30 million working people will benefit from the rise in the national insurance threshold in July. With a record number of vacancies in the economy, we want more people to have the benefits that work brings. That is why we are focused on getting more people into and progressing in jobs, where they can boost their pay, prospects and prosperity. Building on our plan for jobs, our Way to Work scheme is getting people into jobs even more quickly, with the aim of getting half a million claimants into work by June. We can see a kind of magic in our jobcentres, as people really want to break free from that unemployment poverty trap. By the end of April we were more than halfway to our goal, and we know there is more to do. But our Way to Work scheme is helping people move into any job now, to get a better job tomorrow and to build a longer-term career. To help people lift off at work when they land a job, we are rolling out extra support for claimants to build the skills they need to progress in work.

All of this is underpinned by our programme to deliver on what Parliament voted for in 2012: to replace all the legacy benefits with universal credit, because people will always be better off working than not working, unless they cannot work. That is the magic of UC, unlike the cliff edges of tax credits, which stop people progressing the amount of time and skills they get in work. So we are getting on with it, having resumed the process to complete the move to UC by 2024. Given that we estimate that two thirds of people on tax credits would receive a higher entitlement on UC, this will be important in helping to increase incomes.

All of this stands in contrast to what is put forward by those on the Opposition Benches. I believe the Leader of the Opposition would scrap UC—it was certainly in his pledges when seeking to be elected as Leader of the Opposition. They would undo a decade a progress, leave people further from the labour market and penalise the taxpayer by failing to realise the benefits of a modern system.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister summed up our focus in his speech last Tuesday at the start of our debates on the Gracious Speech: “Jobs, jobs, jobs!”. We are talking about high-skill and high-wage jobs. These are clearly challenging times, but we will continue to provide the leadership needed to rise to those times, continuing to drive up the skills our economy needs and employment prospects across the country, and putting more pounds in people’s pockets. This Queen’s Speech will grow the economy, level up our country, spread opportunity, and strengthen security and prosperity for all the British people, through the covid aftershocks and for decades to come. We therefore continue to commend the Loyal Address, unamended, to the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Economy and Jobs

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

It is an honour for me to conclude this debate on the Gracious Speech, Mr Speaker, and a great pleasure to see you in the Chair.

At the start of a new Parliament, we have particularly enjoyed hearing the maiden speeches of many new Members. Today we have heard from the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter), my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith), the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson), my hon. Friends the Members for Dover (Mrs Elphicke), for Kensington (Felicity Buchan), for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell), for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon), for North West Durham (Mr Holden) and for Loughborough (Jane Hunt), and the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Nadia Whittome). We have also heard again from my hon. Friends the Members for Eastbourne (Caroline Ansell) and for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller). All of them have shown their passion and their commitment to their constituents.

Hon. Friends will be friends for life. I encourage them—and, indeed, all hon. Members—to be civil and respectful of each other across the Chamber, recognising that each of us was democratically elected to this place; but to respect the mandate that was given to this Conservative Government by the electorate last month, on which we set out the first part of honouring our manifesto commitments in the Queen’s Speech.

After a decade of recovery, we have a decade of renewal ahead of us, and the road map for a renaissance of our great country as we leave the EU next week and can take advantage of the opportunities to truly unleash Britain’s potential. The last decade has been challenging as we have had to recover from Labour’s record peacetime deficit. The famous note—“I’m afraid there’s no money”—reflected the economic crisis. Labour had splashed the cash, and took their eye off the horizon without being prudent about the unforeseen storms, particularly the global economic crash. We ended up with unemployment and income inequality both higher after they left office than when they had entered it.

We made some tough calls on spending, but we steadied the ship, and thanks to the resilience of the great British people, we have seen both economic growth and a record number of people working: 3.7 million more than in 2010, including record numbers of women and people with disabilities who are being supported so that they can fulfil their full potential. That record of success has not come about by chance. We have had a proactive, pro-business Government who have reduced taxes for employers and allowed businesses and employees to keep more of what they earn, which actually leads to increased tax revenues to support our public services. We have lifted more than 4 million people out of income tax altogether, and have increased the national living wage so that everyone gets a share in the country’s economic growth. We have also seen over a million new businesses start up, as people have the confidence and support to go out on their own and start to create new jobs. Behind the numbers are the inspirational stories of lives transformed by work: stories of hope, pride, determination and horizons opening up to new skills and better prospects.

Work is not just a wage. We will continue to help those who can work to work, not because we want them to get off our books but because a working life offers so much more purpose and potential than a life on benefits. I pay tribute to the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), because this is shown by the numbers of disabled people entering work. In the last six years, 1.3 million have joined the labour market. No longer are they written off; they are contributing their considerable talents to the workplace and holding a stake in society. As a Government, we will not stop there. The new national strategy for disabled people will draw together how we operate to optimise the experience and participation of disabled people in society, better co-ordinating policy across Whitehall to meet their needs.

After challenging times for families in the country, we now have wages increasing ahead of inflation consistently. That has also helped pensioners, who will see a 3.9% increase in their state pension this April, and income inequality has yet again reduced under the Conservatives. Compared with 2010, there are 1 million fewer workless households, and 730,000 fewer children in such households. That is a record low number of children in workless households.

One of the Government’s fundamental principles is to help people get on in life, and my Department has a key role to play in that. The transformation in that approach is underpinned by the key principles of universal credit: people will be better off in work than not in work, unless they cannot work. We are removing the dystopian disincentives for people who wanted to work and earn more but were penalised under the legacy benefit system. This is a Government who do not just think that getting a job is job done. Work coaches across the country are helping people to get a job and to get on in that job. Helping people to progress in work is the future of employment and skills support. We will deliver this new approach through more support for childcare, creating a £3 billion national skills fund and repatriating the EU funds to create a UK shared prosperity fund. We will work as one Government with one vision to ensure that wherever you live and whatever your background, you can achieve your dreams and ambitions through work.

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

In this utopian vision that the Minister is presenting, I wonder what message she is delivering to the 3.8 million 1950s women who have been denied their pension. Where is the vision for the women who have been told that they will have to wait an additional six years?

[Dr Coffey]

As right hon. Gentleman knows, the original change in the legislation was done in 1995, and he will also know this is still under legal processes, so I cannot comment further.

However, I was just about to come on to people in later age. We will continue to support people in retirement and help them to prepare for retirement. Automatic enrolment has been a huge success, with 10 million employees joining workplace pension schemes since 2012, but we will go further to offer choice and protection through the Pension Schemes Bill in this Queen’s Speech. It will introduce three main measures: to help people to be better informed through their individual pension dashboard, which will allow them a better understanding of their path to a comfortable retirement and of how they can boost their savings; to create a new type of pension scheme that is sustainable for employers and employees; and to extend jail sentences for reckless bosses who plunder pension pots.

We want to ensure that people’s prosperity grows in a way that increases opportunity right across the country. That is at the heart of what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has put on the agenda to level up the whole of the UK economy and unleash our potential as a nation. As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out, we have ahead of us a decade of renewal through targeted investment in infrastructure, in skills and education and in our public services. That starts with the Queen’s Speech, with its 25 new Bills.

I really do not understand how anyone could disagree with any of the legislation going through. The employment (allocation of tips) Bill shows that we are the party of the worker, promoting fairness in the workplace and providing flexibility and security in jobs. The environment Bill will do much to ensure that we achieve net zero by 2050 and also support our natural environment and air quality. The NHS long-term plan funding Bill will legislate for the largest cash settlement in NHS history. The sentencing Bill and the serious violence Bill will make our streets safer and punish the most serious violent and sexual offenders. As the House knows, we will also continue to increase the living wage. This bold new agenda will show our constituents that this Government will deliver and stick to its promises.

I am conscious of the other matters that people have raised today. On zero-hours contracts, we are going further with the employment Bill, as I just outlined, but the coalition Government recognised the potential for such contracts to be used to exploit workers, which is why we banned the use of exclusivity clauses in 2015. I am also conscious of people using support networks, such as food banks, and that is why we are committed to helping people find work through a wide range of support targeted to each individual’s circumstances, which is why the help to claim support is there. The Government have lifted 400,000 people out of absolute poverty since 2010, and I reiterate again that income inequality has fallen.

Under this Government, people know that we are working on their priorities. We will rise to the challenge of reuniting and rejuvenating the country. As we enter a new decade and a new political era, the Prime Minister has shown a Britain renewed by our resolve to optimise its strengths at home and abroad. Whether people live in cities or towns, in the countryside or on the coast, this one nation Conservative Government are on their side. After the recovery of the economy and employment, we will continue to renew public services and our infrastructure, so that we can bring about a great renaissance in our country. That is why we do the work we do. The Conservative party is leading the charge, which is why I call upon the House to reject the amendments and commend this Queen’s Speech to everyone.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Bill

Baroness Coffey Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Wednesday 10th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dr Thérèse Coffey)]

I would like to thank the Members who have made valuable contributions to this important debate. As has been explained, one of the key purposes of the Bill is to ensure that there is a deterrent to animal cruelty by extending the maximum sentence possible. The many examples that have been given, particularly by the hon. Member for Redcar (Anna Turley), will reverberate among those for whom the welfare of animals is close to their heart. I am on to my fourth rescue dog, and it is noticeable that when a dog’s history is not known, they often flinch when they see people of a certain character, which perhaps reflects the horrendous experience they have been through. They often require a lot of extra training and support to recover from that.

I genuinely hope that this legislation, which has good support, will make quick progress under the stewardship of the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley). I should point out that the Bill is just one element of the action that the Government intend to take to improve animal welfare. There have been a number of pieces of legislation, and I hope they will soon be joined by this Bill and the Wild Animals in Circuses (No.2) Bill, which is progressing well through the other place.

I now turn to the points made by individual Members. The hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) mentioned feral cats. It is important to state that the Animal Welfare Act 2006, which this Bill is modifying, covers protected animals. In its legal definition, a protected animal is a vertebrate animal of a kind commonly domesticated in the British Isles. This Bill ensures that stray dogs and feral cats will be covered.

Several Members, including my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) and my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Sir David Amess), have referred to the issues of horse tethering. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 and these new maximum penalties will absolutely apply to horse tethering where that leads to unnecessary suffering. Horse tethering is fully covered in the equine welfare code made under the 2006 Act, which gives clear guidance on appropriate tethering. Anyone not tethering in line with the statutory code risks prosecution under the Act. My hon. Friend the Minister recently hosted a roundtable with local authorities and welfare bodies, and he agreed to share best practice on enforcement on this very specific issue.

The hon. Members for Workington (Sue Hayman) and for Ipswich (Sandy Martin) both mentioned wildlife, as did the hon. Member for Bristol West. The House will be aware that this Bill is specifically about amending the Animal Welfare Act 2006. Other legislation does apply to wildlife, with different levels of penalties that can be imposed, including unlimited fines. However, I am conscious, as they are, that the commitment was specifically made to amend this Act. Who knows whether there will be opportunities for further legislation in a new Session of Parliament, if—dare I say it?—we are ever allowed to prorogue so that we can move on to the next Queen’s Speech. That is a matter for debate on another day.

It is important, as my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) said, that we consider Finn’s law part two, or the sequel, but this Bill does actually provide good strengthening. He referred to other parts of the United Kingdom, but it is important to say that this is a devolved matter and the Government take that seriously. I want to commend him and others for their national campaign and what they have been doing to take the case to other parts of the United Kingdom. As the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) said, Northern Ireland is already at that stage, and we will be joining it.

The hon. Lady mentioned the Lord Chancellor’s proposals about custodial sentences. My right hon. Friend is considering the issues relating to more minor, short-term custodial sentences. He is on record as saying that there is a very strong case to abolish sentences of six months or less altogether, with some closely defined exceptions, but any such proposals do not affect this Bill, which is about increasing the maximum available penalty for animal cruelty to five years. It may apply to the more minor offences under the Animal Welfare Act, but those offences, such as in section 9, do not generally attract a custodial sentence now, and an unlimited fine will continue to apply.

We also have the issue of the sentencing guidelines. The Government have already been in contact with the independent Sentencing Council about the change to the maximum penalty, which we hope Parliament will introduce shortly. There is already an existing sentencing guideline in relation to animal cruelty offences under the Act. It was reviewed and updated by the Sentencing Council as recently as 2017. However, I am pleased to say that the council has confirmed that, once the Bill is passed, it will consider the need to revise the guidelines and any revision would involve a public consultation.

[Angela Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for the clarification she has given, but let me be clear that, in my speech, I was absolutely defending the need for this Bill in the context of the potential change in the law in relation to six-month sentences, which I think strengthens the need for this legislation. That is all I will say.

[Dr Coffey]

I entirely agree with the hon. Lady’s point, which is why I am sure the House welcomes what she has said and also the progress on the Bill.

The hon. Member for Redcar referred to filming and to making this an aggravating factor. I think this is a very useful point, and we will certainly raise it with the independent Sentencing Council. As I have said, it has already indicated that it will consider and revise the guidelines once this Bill has become legislation.

One of the things my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West mentioned was enforcement. Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, it is for local authorities, the Animal and Plant Health Agency and indeed the police, which all have powers of entry, to inspect complaints of suspected animal cruelty and take out prosecutions, where necessary. It is for local authorities to make decisions about what they consider to be local priorities, rather than for the Government to decide. However, it is important that local authorities have the opportunity, as they do now, to continue to work in close partnership with others. We know that the RSPCA does investigate allegations of cruelty. It has successfully prosecuted between 800 and 1,000 people on average every year, and in doing that, it does a very valuable job.

My hon. Friend the Member for Clacton (Giles Watling) mentioned the impact of animals being held in kennels. I think it is fair to say that we do not necessarily expect a large number of cases to come before the Crown court, where the issue about the length of time may arise. At present, we estimate that about 25 cases that would previously have been held in the magistrates courts may well now be held in the Crown court. However, we consider that only a very small number of animals may need to be held in kennels for an extended period.

We cannot say from the Dispatch Box today precisely what decisions will be made about which animals would need to be taken away from the owner while somebody is awaiting sentencing, and such an action would not necessarily follow. However, it is also important to state that the Animal Welfare Act has provisions that allow a court to disqualify anyone from having animals, if necessary for life, if they have been convicted of an offence.

The court can also issue orders under section 3(6)(b) of the Bail Act 1976 to prevent the commission of further offences while on bail. The courts can make the sale of existing animals, and indeed a prohibition on owning animals, a condition of a defendant’s bail. It is important to stress that courts already have the power not only to prevent people on trial for animal welfare offences from acquiring new animals, but to remove the animals they already have. I do not believe we need further legislation to bring that about.

On what was said by the hon. Member for Bristol West, this legislation does apply to farmed animals. It is about animals that are under the care and protection of humans. I am pleased that she recognises the things we have done on animal welfare.

[Kerry McCarthy]

rose—

[Dr Coffey]

I appreciate that the hon. Lady wants to intervene, but if she will allow me to say a few more things—

[Kerry McCarthy]

Will the Minister give way on a point of clarification?

[Dr Coffey]

I am going to try to answer the points the hon. Lady made, and I have said that I would then give way.

We have made CCTV mandatory in slaughterhouses in England, as she has pointed out. As she is aware, we are considering carefully the export of live animals. The Farm Animal Welfare Committee has recently submitted its advice on the welfare of animals in transport, which includes advice on controlling live exports—not only to the Government, but to the devolved Administrations. We are considering that carefully, and we aim to publish it with a Government response in due course.

[Kerry McCarthy]

All I wanted to say was that the Minister has twice referred to me as the Member for Bristol West, and I am the Member for Bristol East. I would have thought she would know that by now, because we do tend to go head-to-head rather a lot.

[Dr Coffey]

I do apologise. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) was not here at the start of the debate, and I thought my hon. Friend the Minister had referred to her as the Member for Bristol West, but I do apologise.

On the other issues that have been raised, I was pleased to hear from the Members who made contributions today. A number of interventions were made by my hon. Friends the Members for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin) and for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), and my right hon. Friends the Members for Wokingham (John Redwood) and for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), as well as by the SNP spokesperson on these matters, the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron). It is important that we continue to make good progress in Committee, so that we can bring this Bill swiftly back to the House and it can make its way to the other place. With that, I commend this Bill. The Bill represents the fact that we are a nation of animal lovers, and it certainly reinforces that.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 25 July 2019.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration and any proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Mike Freer.)

Question agreed to.