Football Governance Bill

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 23rd April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I want to put on record how proud I am of how hard the Minister has worked on this Bill. He is an absolute credit to this Government with what he has done here. The recent events around changes to the FA cup show just how pressing this Football Governance Bill and the establishment of the independent regulator are.

As we consider the implications and potential of this legislation, it is crucial that we approach the task with urgency, recognising how important it is for football clubs up and down our country. Football is not just a game in our country; it is woven into the fabric of all of our communities. The clubs that dot our landscape, from the grand stadiums of the premier league to the intimate grounds of the lower divisions, serve not just as teams to support, but as community hubs and sources of local pride. Yet, despite the critical role that these clubs play, the sustainability of the football pyramid is under significant threat.

The crux of the issue lies in the financial disparities that have grown ever starker over the decades. The Premier League, while a global success, has seen its financial might grow exponentially, far outpacing the rest of the pyramid. That imbalance is not merely a matter of elite success, but a structural issue that endangers the viability of clubs across all levels. Today, EFL clubs operate at a massive loss, collectively losing £471 million during the 2022-23 season alone.

The establishment of an independent regulator, as proposed in the Bill, is a measure long overdue. The regulator would have the authority not just to oversee but to intervene and correct the course, ensuring that financial sustainability is not a mere aspiration but a reality. It would have powers to impose financial solutions that ensure the viability of clubs, reflecting the needs of community clubs across England.

We must also address the need for fair distribution of revenues. As it stands, the financial gulf between the Premier League and the EFL has become a chasm. Reforms in revenue sharing and financial regulations are necessary to prevent smaller clubs from financial catastrophe when they fall from the Premier League, or attempt to compete without adequate support.

In supporting the Bill, we are acting to preserve the soul of football in England. This is about more than business; it is about ensuring that the joy, excitement and community spirit that football brings are not lost to financial mismanagement and unchecked commercial appetites. The Bill presents an opportunity to reform our football pyramid to be both competitive and sustainable. It ensures that clubs can continue to thrive for the benefit of their fans, local communities, and our national game. It aligns with the recommendations of the fan-led review, and responds to the clear need for greater fairness and foresight in our approach to football governance.

It would be remiss of me if I did not mention my local club, Accrington Stanley, which is one of the 12 founding members of the football league. Although it is famous for the milk advert, what people also remember is that in 1962 it had to resign its position from the football league and subsequently went into liquidation in 1966. That was not common then. Unfortunately, we are now seeing it happen with many of our clubs. I have spoken with the owner of my club, Andy Holt, about this legislation more times than I can remember. He is clear, as am I, that if we are to protect clubs lower down the leagues, we need not only to give them a level playing field, but to provide them with the space to invest in their communities, whether through investment in facilities or working with children and young people. This legislation is required.

I want to talk briefly about the suggestion from my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Dame Tracey Crouch) on redistributing fines to grassroots communities. I think that is a very good idea. I have seen the impact Accrington Stanley has locally. It really is the heart of the community. It brings the community together and I would hate to think of the counterfactual, where it was no longer viable for the club to continue serving my constituency in the way it does.

I therefore urge my fellow Members to support the Bill, and to stand for fairness, sustainability and the long-term health of English football. Let us ensure that the game we love is protected for future generations not just as a spectacle of sport, but as a cornerstone of the communities we serve.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

I wish Labour Members would actually read our White Paper on AI, because in that paper we recognise the importance of this issue and the importance of protecting the creative industries. The White Paper sets out what we are doing about transparency, which is a key issue. We are of course continuing to work with both sides of the industry—the AI tech giants and the creators—to ensure we come to an appropriate resolution of this issue.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

Will the Minister please update us on the independent regulator, and can he quite literally get the ball rolling to get this Bill in front of the House?

[Stuart Andrew]

My hon. Friend has been a doughty campaigner when it comes to the issue of football regulation, and it was good for me—

Online Safety Bill (Programme) (No. 4)

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Programme motion
Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

I shall come on to that. It is we, on the Opposition side of the House, who are so determined to get the Bill on to the statute book that I find myself arguing against the Government’s further delay. Let us not forget that six months have passed between the first day on Report and the second, today—the longest ever gap between two days of Report in the history of the House—so it is delay after delay.

Disinformation, abuse, incel gangs, body shaming, covid denial, holocaust denial, scammers—the list goes on, all of it actively encouraged by unregulated engagement algorithms and business models that reward sensational, extreme, controversial and abusive behaviour. It is these powers and models that need regulating, for individuals on the receiving end of harm but also to deal with harms to society, democracy and our economy. The enormous number of amendments that have been tabled in the last week should be scrutinised, but we now face a real trade-off between the Bill not passing through the other place in time and the provision of more scrutiny. As I told the Secretary of State a couple of weeks ago in private, our judgment is this: get the Bill to the other place as soon as possible, and we will scrutinise it there.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that what the Labour party did was initiate a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister rather than making progress with the Bill—which she says is so important—at the time when it was needed?

[Lucy Powell]

The hon. Lady remembers incorrectly. It was members of her own party who tabled the motion of no confidence. Oh, I have just remembered: they did not have confidence in the Prime Minister at the time, did they? We have had two Prime Ministers since then, so I am not sure that they have much confidence—[Interruption.]

[Sara Britcliffe]

rose—

[Lucy Powell]

I will move on now, thank you.

We would not have been here at all if the Secretary of State had stuck to the guns of her predecessor, who, to be fair to her—I know she is not here today—saw off a raft of vested interests to enable the Bill to progress. The right hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries) understood that this is not about thwarting the right to hold views that most of us find abhorrent, but about not allowing those views to be widely shared on a powerful platform that, in the offline world, just does not exist. She understood that the Online Safety Bill came from a fundamental recognition that the algorithms and the power of platforms to push people towards content that, although on its own may not be illegal, cumulatively causes significant harm. Replacing the prevention of harm with an emphasis on free speech lets the platforms off the hook, and the absence of duties to prevent harm and dangerous outcomes will allow them to focus on weak user controls.

Simply holding platforms to account for their own terms and conditions—the Secretary of State referred to that earlier—which, as we saw just this week at Twitter, can be rewritten or changed at whim, will not constitute robust enough regulation to deal with the threat that these platforms present. To protect children, the Government are relying on age verification, but as those with teenage children are well aware—including many of us in the House—most of them pass themselves off as older that they are, and verification is easy to get around. The proposed three shields for adults are just not workable and do not hold up to scrutiny. Let us be clear that the raft of new amendments that have been tabled by the Government this week are nothing more than a major weakening and narrowing of this long-awaited legislation.

This is not what Labour would do. We would tackle at root the power of the platforms to negatively shape all our lives. But we are where we are, and it is better to have the regulator in place with some powers than to have nothing at all. I fear that adding more weeks in Committee in the Commons, having already spent years and years debating this Bill, will not make it any better anyway. Going back into Committee is an unprecedented step, and where might that end? What is to prevent another new Minister or Secretary of State from changing their mind again in the new year, or to prevent there being another reshuffle or even another Prime Minister? That might happen! This is a complex and important Bill, but it is also long, long overdue. We therefore support the original programme motion to get the Bill into the other place immediately, and we will not be voting to put the Bill back into Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Thursday 20th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michelle Donelan]

I am happy to take the matter away and come back to the hon. Member.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

T8.   Community clubs such as Accrington Stanley are at the heart of constituencies such as mine in Hyndburn and Haslingden. The fan-led review is crucial in protecting community clubs and providing sustainability and fairness in the game. Can the Minister please update me on the Government’s position on the fan-led review?

[Stuart Andrew]

I understand the importance of and the attachment that many fans have for the fan-led review and recognise that this is a very important sport nationally. Obviously, as a new Minister, I want to take the time to look at it in detail, which is what I am doing at the moment. I am pleased to say that my first meeting was actually with the fans’ groups to hear their views first.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Attorney General]

I cannot speak to other people’s dreams. I know the Scottish nationalists have their own dreams, which I do not think will ever be realised, because the Union of this country is what the vast majority of the people of the United Kingdom want to maintain. The convention that I mentioned is important, and I intend to respect it. It protects the ability of Law Officers, as chief legal advisers to the Government, to give full and frank legal advice.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

9. What recent assessment he has made of the performance of the Crown Prosecution Service in the north-west.

[The Solicitor General (Michael Tomlinson)]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that the Crown Prosecution Service north-west has consistently achieved a conviction rate that is higher than the national average. The area conviction rate was 84.4%, which is two percentage points higher than the national rate.

[Sara Britcliffe]

It is encouraging that since the CPS published its strategy on rape and serious sexual offences in 2020, the number of rape prosecutions has risen dramatically, with a 62.9% increase recorded. I know, however, that several of my constituents in Hyndburn and Haslingden are keen to see the specialist trauma training for all court staff, police and prosecutors that is being trialled. With such great interest in that scheme, will the Minister please update me on its findings?

[The Solicitor General]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for highlighting the importance of this issue, and more broadly for her support for victims not only in her area, but across the north-west and the country. She should look out for two further specific measures: first, Operation Soteria and its continued roll-out across the country; and secondly the victims Bill. I look forward to working with my hon. Friend on both.

Football Governance

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Huddleston]

Both the Secretary of State and I have said previously that the intention is to bring this in before the end of this Parliament. As I say, we are working at speed on it. The hon. Gentleman’s point about indebtedness is an important one. Many clubs are currently in a pretty precarious financial state. The financial regulation that we will bring in will require much more stability and sustainability, and proof of that sustainability. That is precisely why saying, “Let’s bring this in tomorrow”, could end up having the absolute opposite impact of what we intend.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

I welcome the Government’s response to the fan-led review undertaken by my hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch). I thank her for recently visiting Accrington Stanley and its supporters, and, in particular, its fantastic chairman, Andy Holt, who people know is quite a vocal supporter of the fan-led review. There are concerns about the timing of this, as the Minister has set out, but while we are waiting for the White Paper, will he make sure that we can continue to have discussions on the redistribution of finances?

BBC: Dyson Report

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Whittingdale]

The BBC is committed to impartiality in its coverage of all political events, including the referendum in Scotland and the current political debate. It is very important that the independence of the BBC is defended and that it resists political pressure from political parties in Scotland, be it the SNP or indeed some new offshoot from it.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con) [V]]

With the mid-point review of the BBC charter imminent, does the Minister agree with many of my constituents across Hyndburn and Haslingden that everything must be on the table for discussion, including its governance structures? Can he clarify that the scope of any future inquiries will cover the wider culture at the BBC?

[Mr Whittingdale]

The mid-term review is about the governance of the BBC and the new arrangements which were put in place. It will certainly incorporate a consideration of the culture to ensure that the BBC, in its present form, is delivering on its public purposes. It is a mid-term review of the existing charter. There will be an opportunity for a more fundamental examination of every aspect of the BBC, including its funding, when we come to the renewal of the charter, but that is still not until 2027.

Online Anonymity and Anonymous Abuse

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Wednesday 24th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for securing this important debate. For me, online abuse increased when I became the Member of Parliament for Hyndburn, and it has included death threats, threats against my friends, my family, and a constant barrage of abuse. I cannot pretend that those words have not sometimes affected me and given me sleepless nights, worrying about my wellbeing and that of my loved ones. I have often defended the right to debate, whether in person or online, and I stand by that. However, it is unacceptable for a person to receive online abuse for their opinions, appearance, gender, or any other reason. Internet companies need to hold online trolls to account for their words and the damage those words cause. It is cowardly to hide behind a screen and the anonymity that social media profiles create.

I am fortunate that I have good people around me, both inside and outside this House, who I can turn to when I received such abuse. However, there are people across this country who have no one to turn to, and nobody to remind them of their good qualities. As we all know, online abuse can cause irreparable emotional and psychological damage for victims. It is not a surprise that as online abuse has increased, mental health issues have increased among young people. This is a growing pandemic, and I am pleased that the online safety Bill will begin to address those painful issues by holding internet companies to account.

My constituents have regularly shown their support for greater accountability from social media platforms and online abusers, I have been blown away on numerous occasions by the online support I received when I have shared my experiences. Those outpourings of love and support are testament to the fact that social media can be a safe and positive place for everyone.

In their manifesto, the Government made a commitment to make the UK the safest place in the world to be online. That commitment shows their intent to bring about positive change, and I applaud Ministers for condemning such online abuse. I welcome the review of law enforcement powers to tackle illegal anonymous abuse online, and I look forward to the Law Commission’s recommendations for reform in that area. I hope that Ministers will seriously consider, where appropriate, whether to bring those recommendations into law as part of the online safety Bill. We must all join together to say, “Enough is enough”, and we need to take action on this now.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Seventh sitting)

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 26th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Chi Onwurah]

I beg to move amendment 15, in clause 14, page 21, line 28, leave out from beginning to end of line 30 and insert—

“(3) The reports must be published not more than 12 months apart for the first 5 years, then not more than 5 years apart.

(4) The first report must be published within the period of 12 months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.”.

This amendment requires the Secretary of State to report on the impact and effectiveness of clauses 1 to 13 every year for the first five years after the Act is passed, and then every five years following.

The amendment reflects another of our key concerns about the Bill, which is the level and extent of appropriate scrutiny for such broad and sweeping powers. It seeks to ensure appropriate scrutiny. Clause 14 requires the Secretary of State to review the impact and effectiveness of clauses 1 to 13 at least every five years. Our amendment would require the report to be published every year for the first five years after the legislation is passed, and then up to every five years after that.

As we have said, the Bill gives the Secretary of State and Ofcom sweeping powers. We want to ensure both that they are proportionate and that there is accountability. As we have previously emphasised, we are sure that the Minister and the Secretary of State are inclined to exercise the powers in a proportionate and accountable way, but they will not be in their posts forever, and perhaps not for the entire first five years of the legislation’s operation, so it is important that the Bill requires that Parliament be able to scrutinise its effectiveness, as that is so important to our national security. In that sense, this amendment follows amendments 5, 9 and 10 with respect to the requirement for appropriate oversight and accountability.

I emphasise—I am sure that you will understand, Mr Hollobone—that in some ways we are here because of a lack of effective parliamentary scrutiny of the presence and growth of high-risk vendors in our networks. It was only when Parliament became aware of and was able to give its full-throated input on concerns about the dominance of high-risk vendors in our telecommunications market that the Government took action. We do not want to be in the position of finding again that there has been a dramatic change in the security of our networks without appropriate scrutiny.

Clause 14 states that the Secretary of State must

“carry out reviews of…impact and effectiveness”

and that the report must be laid before Parliament for parliamentary scrutiny. However, we are to wait up to five years before it will be made possible to give parliamentary scrutiny to a Bill that is so important to national security, as both the Minister and the Secretary of State, and indeed the security services, have emphasised. We are not to review its effectiveness for five years.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

Does not the clause state that the period is up to five years? The review could be done during that period; it would not have to be at the five-year mark every time.

[Chi Onwurah]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. The clause enables the Minister or Secretary of State to choose to lay a report more frequently. Again, I do not want to impute anything against the Minister or the Secretary of State, but given the importance of the subject and of parliamentary review, why not ensure that it is more frequent?

I am sure that the hon. Lady will agree that Parliament has many things to consider, and so does the Secretary of State. There is competition for parliamentary time, particularly in a pandemic and in view of the challenges that we shall face in the next few years. How can I put this? We have concerns that the priority may slip in the face of, for example, economic challenges, investment challenges and recovery challenges. We want to be sure what is happening. We are the party of national security and we want to ensure that, in this context, national security is brought to Parliament to be debated, discussed and reviewed at least every year.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Seventh sitting)

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Tuesday 26th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Chi Onwurah]

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

[Chi Onwurah]

Telecommunications (Security) Bill (Third sitting)

Sara Britcliffe Excerpts

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 19th January 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Professor Webb, would you like to respond?

Professor Webb: I certainly agree with all that. I have written standards myself and even run a standards body, so I know how they work. The important point is that it is not possible for a Government just to say, “We are going to influence that standard.” Standards are influenced by the working papers written by the companies that attend the standards body. The UK Government themselves could not really have an influence, and nor could a university or any other organisation like that, not unless they spent inordinate amounts of money and hired a lot of people to write a lot of papers. There needs to be a concerted global or western European effort, or some kind of larger scale activity that can help the larger companies with the resources and expertise and the standards bodies to step up their efforts.

[Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)]

Q Good morning, William. You alluded to this in your introduction, but what are the main risks to the Bill achieving the Government’s aims for the security of the telecoms network? Can you expand on how you believe these could be mitigated?

Professor Webb: I think the Bill is fine when it comes to potentially delivering the security desires. It seems to be a very flexible Bill and has the capability to do all those kinds of things. My key worry is more one of proportionality. The Bill essentially says everything must be done to make sure that networks are completely secure. Of course, security is extremely important, but we could have a situation where there is a very tiny risk of some security breach but the mitigation is inordinately expensive, and that might result in higher consumer costs for mobile phones.

Ofcom will need to weigh up that proportionality and make sure its response is correctly balanced, but I do not see that in the Bill. I worry that the risk aversion that I think will happen automatically with the regulator may result in excessive security measures that penalise consumers when they are not particularly necessary. That is my biggest concern looking at the current structure.

Emily Taylor: I agree with William’s overview of the Bill. It is great to see that the industry welcomes it. We heard from Ciaran Martin yesterday in his evidence to the National Security Strategy Committee that industry asked for this, because it had reached the limit of what it could do on a voluntary basis. It is great that it will lead to substantial investments and security. The telecoms security requirements are almost a recipe book—a very clear set of instructions on how to build more secure networks, which is great, particularly the focus on securing the management plane.

However, as William has described, in certain scenarios, there are almost unlimited liabilities for providers, not just to their customers, but to every person who could be affected by a contravention under clause 8. The inspection notices give very wide powers, including entry to premises, and the provider pays for that, so there is not much incentive for Ofcom as the regulator to think about whether this is justified value-for-money-wise and how to target interventions. I could go on, but the other question I have is about Ofcom’s capacity in this sector, because it will have to acquire a very specific set of skills and capabilitie,s and that will require substantial investment and learning as an organisation as well.

[Sara Britcliffe]

Q Can I just quickly follow up with both witnesses? Were you consulted on the Bill prior to this?

Professor Webb: No, I was not.

Emily Taylor: No.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chi Onwurah]

Q Thank you very much for that. The Bill does not create any incentives for network operators to diversify their supply chain, or place any requirements on them to make notifications of changes to their supply chains or their networks that could have security implications. There is no proactive requirement on network operators to do that, or to actively participate in standards development—and we have heard about the importance of standards development and the huge presence of China in that space. Do you have any thoughts about how we could address those incentives, and also the power of standards development?

Dr Drew: The two essentially go together. If you look at the membership and those who take part in ITU standard setting committees and groups, you will see a predominance of not only state representation from China, but also representation of Chinese companies.

I think it needs to be made clear to our providers the benefits to them of being able to set standards; I believe this has been overlooked. The easiest way to do that is to simply look at some of the technical standards that have been set or lobbied for in this group by companies such as Huawei and ZTE, which are essentially entrenching their technical standards into a global standards body—that obviously gives them an advantage in producing that output. I think our companies could benefit in exactly the same way, and they would certainly benefit from taking part.

On having providers be more proactively involved, I think it would make complete sense for these actors to be made to inform Ofcom, or whichever regulator is chosen, of significant changes to their supply chains. It would be akin to having a black box where we go, “Okay, this black box must output something secure, but we don’t need to know how it gets there.” I think we should know, as much as is possible, who is involved in the supply chains to reach our eventual telecoms network.

[Sara Britcliffe]

Q Good morning and thank you for joining us, Dr Drew. In July last year, the Secretary of State made it very clear that the ban on procurement by the end of last year would have an effect on the roll-out. My question is: what will be the impact of the Bill on telecoms providers and infrastructure roll-out, as well as the 2027 deadline?

Dr Drew: It is undeniable, as the previous witness stated, that this Bill will increase costs and potentially slow down the pace at which development of these technologies, to the standards that are now being asked for, can be done. I have been asked similar questions before about what is the cost of us not getting to 5G roll-out as soon as possible. My general response has been to point out that although 5G is a backbone technology that provides access, we have very few practical applications of the speeds and connectivity that this network will provide us with.

It is something that you might see on your phone, but the increase in speed from having a 5G connection will be almost so fast as to be unnoticeable to the normal user. We have not got to the point where we have large city-wide technologies that will draw on this infrastructure, such as traffic management, health systems and economic production systems.

Although there might be a delay and an increase in cost—which again, I think we should try to meet in a way that incentivises more players to come into this market—I think this delay is not crippling. That is because, at the moment, although the 5G technology itself is maturing, the uses of that technology are still immature and I do not think we are losing out too much if we have a slight delay, with the benefit of reaching greater security.

[Sara Britcliffe]

Q Can I just quickly follow up on that? I think you have answered it. Were the Government right not to quantify the impact of any delay in roll-out of 5G and full-fibre networks in their impact assessment?

Dr Drew: I believe they were. I have seen a lot of attempts to quantify the damage or impact of limiting our vendor net, as it were. With the removal of Huawei, I have seen multiple attempts to put a value to that—of the slowdown and having to go to different vendors. I am uncertain as to the accuracy of any of those, and I think that it would be very difficult to put a number on that in any useful sense.

My impression is that there is nothing that should stop us from being able to enact the goals of this Bill and the incentives to diversify the market, while also being able to develop and invest in the next stage of 5G use, which is its actual application, and to marry those two up together in a manner that provides us with both security and financial and economic benefit from putting these systems in place.

[Matt Warman]

Q Thank you for what you have said thus far. Some of it has touched on the National Security and Investment Bill, which I think is a complementary part of this. A lot of what you talked about regarding any reservations you might have was around, essentially, the resources for Ofcom—something that I think we will be talking about quite a lot in Committee. I am looking forward to saying that Ofcom will have all of the resources that it needs. I wonder how you think the Government could best demonstrate, beyond that short statement, that Ofcom is getting the resources that it needs.

Dr Drew: I think what needs to be considered in that question is the type of resources that will be the hardest for Ofcom to acquire. I frankly believe it is not necessarily technology; I believe it is actually personnel. The edge that is given to companies that have already been mentioned in your hearings today—Google, Microsoft, Facebook et al—is not necessarily in the technology, but in those who design the technology. Those people are hard to come by at the level that we require them at. They are also very hard to keep, because once they reach that level of acumen and they have Google, Facebook or Amazon on their CV, they can pretty much choose where they go and, often, how much they ask for in the process.

I think the biggest issue that Government face—not only in Ofcom, but in regards to future technology policy—is attracting and keeping those individuals who can provide the services and understanding, as well as develop the tools, that a future Government will need. If you can demonstrate a way to capture that talent and retain it, I think that would go a long way to soothing any potential questions about whether Ofcom will be capable of meeting the requirements of this and other Bills. This goes across all Departments, I feel.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Simon, do you have anything to add?

Simon Saunders: No, not in that area. It might be relevant to mention, just to make the point that it can be done, that I actually joined Ofcom from a role at Google.

[Sara Britcliffe]

Q You never know, you might become shadow Minister when you move on from the job at Ofcom, as we have seen. My question is quite simple: do you believe that the Secretary of State is the right person to exercise the powers?

Lindsey Fussell: Are you referring there to the high-risk vendor powers?

[Sara Britcliffe]

Yes.

Lindsey Fussell: Yes, I think so. It is important to say that, across the scope of the whole Bill, it is not Ofcom’s role to make national security judgments. That is really important. Clearly, that is the Government’s and the Secretary of State’s role, taking advice from the NCSC and the intelligence agencies. In relation to telecoms security, that has enabled us to take the very detailed work and the threat assessment that the NCSC has done, which have been translated into a set of requirements in the code of practice, and to apply those and work with operators to monitor and enforce that compliance without having to make those national security judgments ourselves. On high-risk vendors, I think it inevitable that there will be more national security judgments to be made, so it is quite proper that that role sits with Government rather than the regulator.

[Mr Jones]

Q Your responsibilities are quite broad, and this is an expansion for you. You have already talked about recruiting staff for this task. How many of those staff will have to have STRAP clearance?

Lindsey Fussell: As I say, we have existing networks security responsibilities, so the issue of security clearance is one that we already need to deal with. I think the point that I have just made is important: we will not be making national security judgments, and that means that we will need access to less national security information than you might imagine. I do not think that we will be routinely handling national security information, but where the NSCS feels that it is required, there are clearly provisions in place for that.

Having said that, as now and in future, there are occasions when we have to handle sensitive information, and we do have the necessary security clearances in place at different levels for our staff to do that. As we recruit, we will obviously ensure that people have those necessary security clearances so that we can handle any sensitive information that we are given.