Covid-19: Government Support for Business

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

What we will do is listen carefully and act appropriately. Just yesterday, we secured this covid additional relief fund to support the supply chain and city centre economies, but I fully recognise that we are in a very difficult and rapidly changing set of circumstances, and it is important that Ministers act and make decisions on the basis of that data and the evidence that is presented to this House.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

While it is important that we have a swift health response, it is equally important that we have a swift financial response to support that health response in tackling the impact of covid. What steps are being taken to ensure that these decisions are taken quickly? It is not good enough simply to wait until the Chancellor can wake up, whenever that is, in California. When will the Government finally ever do anything to support those who have been excluded from any support at any time throughout this entire pandemic?

[John Glen]

Clearly we have worked hard throughout to bring customised support to different sectors, with a range of grants, reliefs and direct support through furlough. The Chancellor was very clear from his earliest statements last spring that it would be impossible to protect every single job, but just this week we have seen unemployment at 4.2%, which is obviously considerably better than was anticipated. There is no complacency on behalf of the Treasury or the Chancellor, who is fully engaged in looking at what interventions are appropriate in addition to the comprehensive winter plan, which was laid out in advance to give reassurance over the coming six months. As I have said, circumstances have now changed, and we will need to look very carefully at the implications of that.

Downing Street Christmas Parties Investigation

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I agree, of course, that it is a privilege and an honour for all of us to serve our constituents in this honourable House. What I can say is that my understanding is that the Cabinet Secretary has denied any attendance at any gathering that is the subject of this matter, but the reality of the matter is that he can therefore be said to be completely separate at the head of the civil service and able to conduct a thorough investigation, as one would expect from someone with his seniority. I reiterate that he has—I am told—indicated that he was not at any relevant gathering.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

Over the period of the pandemic, people have been unable to have office Christmas “gatherings”, children’s birthday “gatherings” or any other type of annual “gatherings” that they would often have. I certainly hope we will not find that it is the drinks cabinet office that is investigating these matters.

Sanctions against staff have been talked about, but we need to be clear that if any wrongdoing is found, sanctions will also need to be taken against any Members, regardless of what office they may hold. Will the investigation look at whether there have been any breaches of quarantine at any of these “gatherings”?

[Michael Ellis]

The Prime Minister said yesterday to this House that Ministers, special advisers, civil servants and anybody else would be subject to disciplinary action if appropriate, so that applies. I hope that that answers the hon. Gentleman’s question.

Draft Consumer Scotland Act 2020 (Consequential Provisions and Modifications) Order 2022

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 General Committees

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I will be brief. We welcome the introduction of the order, and I thank the Minister for her comments.

I found some of the comments from the Labour Front Bench interesting, given the subject. The creation of this new organisation will be of benefit to all and is not a particularly political thing. As far as I understand, nobody in the Scottish Parliament voted against it, so I am not sure how it became quite so political, but that is where we are.

Beyond that, Mrs Murray, it is just a case of welcoming the order and the creation of Consumer Scotland.

Conduct of the Right Hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

This Government have proven they know what the people want of this country, and we did so by the 80-seat majority behind me.

We are rolling out the fastest vaccination programme in Europe, allowing us to live with the covid virus, without significant restrictions on our freedoms. Almost nine in 10 people aged 12 and over have now received a first vaccine dose—that is a huge achievement—with eight in 10 having also received a second dose. The latest data shows that vaccines have saved almost 130,000 lives and prevented over 260,000 hospitalisations.

What else? This Prime Minister has launched our plan for jobs, helping people to get back into work, earn more money and gain the skills that our economy needs. This includes our £2 billion kickstart scheme, which has already got 100,000 young people into work, our £2.9 billion restart scheme, helping over 1 million long-term unemployed people find work, and our lifetime skills guarantee, offering 11 million adults a free qualification. And it is cutting taxes and boosting wages. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald) should listen: the fact of the matter is it is cutting taxes, boosting wages and helping working families—

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am slightly confused, because I am struggling to find which points the Minister is making that are in any way relevant to the motion on the Order Paper. [Interruption] Can you guide us?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am awfully sorry but there was a lot of noise; will the hon. Gentleman give me the second part of his point of order again?

[Owen Thompson]

I am struggling to understand what points the Minister is making that are in any way relevant to the motion on the Order Paper and seek your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, as to how we could focus on those issues?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I see what the hon. Gentleman is saying, but I have absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for the content of the Minister’s speech. The Minister is constructing his argument and I am sure he will come to his razor-sharp points very soon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con)]

At a time when we are dealing with the aftermath of an unexpected global pandemic, a booster vaccine programme to deliver and an economy to keep firmly in recovery, I find it astounding that the SNP has used its parliamentary time today not to further the interests of the Scottish people, but to play party politics with its base.

The leader of the SNP in this place, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), has exposed what his main priority is: to get a news headline for his party conference this weekend. At a time when we have seen the emergence of a new covid variant, the tragedy that we saw last week, the people who have been left without power after Storm Arwen, imagine this being your first choice for a debate. It is nothing but political theatre designed to further an obsession with independence. All that the SNP has achieved today is exposing what the Scottish people already know—the priorities of the SNP could not be further removed from the priorities of the Scottish people.

Just last week, YouGov published a poll that found that the three most common priorities for the Scottish people—indeed these were in line with the priorities of the British people—were the covid recovery, healthcare and the economy. Yet what did we see at the SNP’s annual conference this week? The right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber spoke for more than 15 minutes. How many times did he mention the NHS? Not once. How many times did he mention failing standards in Scottish schools? Not once. Yet how many times did he mention independence? Seven times. In his opening speech today, I think he made double digits.

With the eye of the SNP tilted so firmly away from their own delivery of public services, it is little surprise that under their leadership schools have plummeted down the international league tables, A&E waiting times are near their worst level on record, and Scotland has the highest drug death rate in the whole of Europe. All those issues are devolved to the Scottish Parliament and have been under the SNP’s stewardship for 14 years.

[Owen Thompson]

Not true.

[Claire Coutinho]

Yet instead of focusing on those issues or the other important issues on which we could be focusing for the Scottish people, again SNP Members are simply trying to drive us further apart from one another.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

It is fitting that we are holding this debate on St Andrew’s Day, as he is not just the patron saint of Scotland, but a fisherman. That was yet another broken promise of the Prime Minister, who swindled and betrayed fishermen after the Brexit deal that he barely seemed to have read, let alone understood. He claimed that the UK was an

“independent coastal state with full control of our waters”.

The truth, as always, is sadly very far removed from the rhetoric. The fishing industry was a convenient tool for charlatans to sell Brexit, before the fishermen were sold out and stitched up.

I find it interesting that this debate has seen a defence of a kind of the Prime Minister from Government Members, but I have not yet heard a single one of them challenge any line in the motion as inaccurate. Their desire to change the terms of the debate and talk about anything but what is in the motion only leads me to conclude that they agree. If they disagreed or they could challenge it, they would do so, and that simply is not happening.

We all make mistakes. Anyone can see that and accept that. Where genuine errors occur, they need to be put right at the first opportunity, but we do not see that with this Government. Instead, we have an ever-increasing timeline of misinformation languishing on the record, a failure to stand up for the best possible standards in public life and a Prime Minister who will seemingly do anything he can to adjust the rules to fit the narrative he wants to achieve.

There are channels through which the Government should be held to account, including in this place. This Prime Minister is doing everything he can to avoid that, up to illegally proroguing the House. Under his leadership, we have a Government who have been mired in sleaze, corruption and cover-up. Colleagues have listed a litany of such failures. Government Members have had the opportunity to challenge these points, and they have not. Even Peppa Pig could see what is there in front of them, regardless of how much they might have missed.

As Burns said,

“facts are chiels that winna ding”.

If the behaviour of this Government becomes normalised, the self-regulation of checks and balances that operate in this democracy break down. Those are the depths to which this Prime Minister seems to be willing to take us.

Some might say that the issue in the motion is not a talking point on the doorsteps—I have heard that suggestion from some Government Members—but people in my constituency of Midlothian are absolutely scunnered by the behaviour of this Government. It puts every one of us to shame that this is seen as the top standard that can be achieved. People are dismayed. There seem to be no consequences for appalling behaviour. It would not apply in any other walk of life. In no other job could the actions of the Prime Minister be failed to be held to account, yet in this place, he can just change the rules. This censure motion can begin to put things right. It can be a start on the trajectory to ensuring that we are held in a far higher regard. While sleaze and dishonesty continue to sit at the heart of this Government, these issues will continue to haunt us all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lee Anderson]

rose—

[Owen Thompson]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Member is making clearly erroneous accusations against Members that are simply not true; I ask for your guidance on how the Member can remove those comments and correct the record.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I think I made my views very clear. First, it is very important not to make references to Members who are not here if the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) is accusing them of something; secondly, I hope we can maintain an element of courtesy in this debate—although it is not going well so far in the hon. Gentleman’s speech.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

The right hon. Gentleman raises a whole bunch of questions. Let me address them. There were some contractors working through agencies for HMRC. Where it was discovered that they had used disguised remuneration, those relationships were ended and strong measures have been put in place to prevent recurrence. That is an unfortunate feature of the extended way in which these contract arrangements sometimes work. I do not think that there is any evidence that HMRC has signed off or positively approved the use of any disguised remuneration scheme. If the right hon. Gentleman has an example, he is welcome to send it to me. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the chief executive of HMRC has specifically written to the loan charge and taxpayer fairness all-party parliamentary group to make it perfectly clear that it has taken those remarks out of context and that what he was doing—as every chief executive of a public agency should do—was putting his own officials under some pressure to provide the justification needed, and rightly so.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the effect of his policies on living standards.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the effect of his policies on living standards.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay)]

Her Majesty’s Treasury analysis published alongside Budget ’21 has shown that policy interventions in response to covid-19 have, on average, supported the poorest working households most as a proportion of pre-pandemic income.

[Owen Thompson]

The Government’s plan to increase national insurance will clearly unfairly impact the living standards of young people and the low paid. That is in stark contrast to the Scottish Government’s free education, bus travel for under-25s and the Scottish child payment. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm how many Ministers spoke against this move at Cabinet today and whether this included the Scottish Secretary?

[Steve Barclay]

I would have thought that, having sought additional powers, the hon. Gentleman would be more interested in reminding the House how his own Government are using the powers that they have. The key issue is that in many areas they are choosing not to use their tax powers—for example, to top up universal credit. He should focus on the alliance that his party has formed with the Greens, which is bad for business, bad for the economy, bad for the oil and gas industry, and counterproductive to growth.

Covid-19: Government Support

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Westminster Hall

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered eligibility for Government support during the covid-19 outbreak.

I am grateful to have the opportunity to move the motion, but I find it genuinely hard to believe that we are having to have this debate again. It is now 16 months since the Government should have filled the gaps on eligibility for their covid support schemes. In that time, I and countless other Members from across the House have raised the issue of the exclusion of 3 million people from Government support. I have personally asked five oral questions, made seven speeches, submitted dozens of written questions and led three debates, yet progress has been minimal.

At the start of the pandemic, I and many others could understand the Government’s argument that it was inevitable that some people would temporarily fall through the gaps during such an unprecedented time. Likewise, I accept and welcome the instances where the Government have taken constructive steps to plug the gaps. I do not dispute that some progress has been made, so I would be grateful if the Minister does not squander his valuable time by simply listing all the things that have been done. Perhaps we could focus on where the gaps still exist.

If it is the role of the Government to protect and improve the lives and livelihoods of citizens, it is incomprehensible that 10% of the working population can be accepted as collateral damage and left to be ground down by poverty and despair by a Government who claim to be business-friendly. Instead of looking backwards at what has already been done, I want to focus on where the gaps still exist and to look ahead to what can be done to tackle the long-term effects of the Government’s decision to let temporary gaps in support become a full-blown crisis of debt, poverty and mental health.

The Minister will be well aware that over 800,000 people have been unable to access the coronavirus job retention scheme due to last year’s real-time information cut-off date. He is no doubt champing at the bit to stand up and give the Treasury a pat on the back for the decision to amend the date to November, but those affected are telling us that this does nothing to support those who missed out on furlough because of their roles as pay-as-you-earn freelancers or annually paid limited company directors. Although the inclusion in March’s Budget of the 2019-20 tax returns for calculating eligibility for the self-employed income support scheme is welcome, the Treasury’s assertion that this will open eligibility to 6000,000 more self-employed people is categorically disputed by campaigners.

Likewise, the discretionary grant funds devised by the UK Government and the devolved Governments have been effective in plugging some of the gaps in places, but the eligibility criteria vary from council to council, keeping some groups excluded based on postcode alone—some because they do not have a premises, and some because they have too many employees. The list goes on. This is something that the Treasury could fix, either by issuing clear guidance on whom councils should consider to be eligible, or by distributing its own grant scheme rather than devolving the blame.

To save the Minister a bit of time later, I am well aware of the Government’s culture recovery fund, but the scheme does not do much at all to support many of my constituents who work in the supply chain—businesses in the events sector that have remained formally open but have been badly affected by the cancellation of live events. Only 3% of the fund went to supply chain businesses in the first round. That figure did rise to 12.5% in the second round, but only because of the campaigning efforts of groups such as We Make Events. Will the Minister explain how he intends to support the supply chain businesses excluded from this fund, rather than repeat the lines that we already know?

Finally on this point, as much as the Government point to universal credit as the last resort when all else fails, the reality is quite different. ExcludedUK estimates that about 60% of the excluded have been unable to access universal credit, often because they have partners working or savings set aside for business expenditures, such as tax bills, which is natural for any self-employed person.

I hope the Minister will be grateful that we have covered what the Government have already done and that we can focus today instead on the gaps that still exist. Some gaps have certainly been filled—I have no qualms about that, and I would certainly not try to detract from it. However, the onus is now on the Government to fill the rest, and not rest on their laurels.

Plenty of solutions have been presented only to end up being dismissed for spurious reasons; they have sat on a Minister’s desk while people who could have been helped languished in stress and deprivation. For instance, proposals for a directors income support scheme were dismissed by the Treasury because of concerns about fraud and an inability to gather data on dividends, despite the scheme using the Government’s own anti-fraud gold standard and avoiding dealing with dividends at all. Where there is political will, there is always a way, and the Government have displayed nothing but a lack of political will in this.

Throughout this sorry saga, the Treasury has shown that it believes that many Members, such as myself, sound like broken records and that the excluded are nuisances trying to swindle public funds. Perhaps there is a bit of projection going on. Time and again, the tone has been nothing but dismissive. The Treasury has used blatant straw-manning to paint limited company directors as fat cats and imply that the majority are actually just directors’ children and spouses.

With the Prime Minister pressing on with the ditching of all restrictions with trademark recklessness, I imagine that Ministers are rubbing their hands with glee at the chance to redirect attention to reopening and simply to dismiss or brush off the excluded as yesterday’s news. However, if the Government think that the end of restrictions will make the issue go away, they are very wrong; for many of the excluded, the hardest times are still to come. The fact that many jobs and businesses have survived until now does not mean that they are in the clear. Those who have been excluded from support have relied on the loan schemes, so by tapering off support now the Government are exposing them to an unimaginable crisis of toxic debt.

In a Westminster Hall debate in November last year, I raised warnings from TheCityUK recapitalisation group that UK businesses will have £100 billion of toxic debt by 2021, with £35 billion of that related to Government schemes. The report warned that up to 3 million jobs across the UK and 780,000 small and medium-sized enterprises are at risk. Now we are standing at the edge of that very precipice, with many having only just managed to scrape by in meeting the first repayment deadlines for coronavirus business interruption loans or bounce back loans. How does the Treasury expect entrepreneurs to reap the benefits of an open economy when the profits of so many are simply going to go straight to repaying ever-mounting debts? How many businesses that were saved through the pandemic will fold, collapsing in debt when the health crisis is finally over? Are the Government really content with giving some companies a competitive advantage by saddling others in the same sector with debt?

As we reopen, things are more uncertain than ever for the excluded, especially with the reopening process likely to be bumpy. As long as covid is still out there, cancellations and changes of plan can create deep uncertainty. Only last week, in my own constituency, Midlothian, a Tough Mudder event that had been planned over the space of seven months was cancelled at 6.30 pm on the night before it was due to start. While the health situation remains uncertain, there must at least be certainty in support, as well as quality decision making, which was sadly lacking in the Tough Mudder case.

The excluded are not a niche group. They are the backbone of our economy: business owners and risk takers. To take one example, the events industry demonstrates its incredible potential to build a world-beating sector that boosts both our economy and our spirits. It relies on the efforts of a diverse and highly skilled supply chain of around 1 million people. Those people’s skills should be used to boost the recovery, yet so many have taken such an economic beating that they literally cannot carry on in their current roles and sectors, with 1 million people leaving self-employment in the last year alone.

For all the Government’s talk of a strong economic recovery, we have been left with a looming toxic debt crisis and the decimation of key industries and sectors. The supposedly strong shoulders of the Treasury are quite happy to shrug off millions of livelihoods, and I have not even mentioned the human cost: poverty, hunger, and a serious mental health crisis. The Trussell Trust reports that gaps in social security have driven people to food banks and that universal credit has been totally insufficient in preventing the excluded from falling into food poverty. Many are already been forced to sell their homes to repay CBILS and bounce back debt. Tragically, some have already taken their own lives. It speaks volumes that groups such as #ForgottenLtd have established formal links with suicide prevention charities such as the Samaritans. I really hope the Minister will join me in expressing a deep appreciation for the work that those charities do in supporting the excluded.

In conclusion, never before has a Government been so complacent about a debt crisis, a mental health crisis and a grave injustice all rolled into one. Let us talk about solutions: backdated parity of support; eligibility for support as we come out of the pandemic; support for repaying CBILs and bounce back debt; delayed repayments; or perhaps even a student loan-style repayment scheme that kicks in only past a certain threshold. Those are just ideas, but they are ideas that the Government need to look at now.

Will the Minister recognise the graveness of the crisis we are about to enter and commit to exploring solutions as a matter of urgency? Doing so will require striking a new tone with campaigning Members and groups such as ExcludedUK and We Make Events, so will the Minister agree to co-ordinate a meeting between the various excluded groups?

It is worth noting that the people who have been excluded watch these debates, and the last thing they want to hear today is another generic list of the people who have been supported. Not only is that a waste of our time, it is an insult to them, rubbing their faces in the injustice of the situation. It is taunting to the level of trolling. I implore him to throw away the script and speak today as though he were speaking face to face with one of the excluded themselves. He should listen to their hardships and their stories and recognise the hurt that is out there, listen to those affected and commit to working constructively to resolve one of the greatest injustices of this generation.

[David Mundell (in the Chair)]

In order to allow all Back Benchers to contribute to the debate, I am imposing a three-minute time limit that will be enforced. I call David Warburton to speak now.

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[Owen Thompson]

I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. Clearly, across the board, there is a recognition that those gaps still exist and a frustration that, again, we are not hearing anything about how they can be addressed. I played out a hope that we could look forward, instead of backwards, but that has clearly not happened. The record will show that I was very welcoming of the support that has been provided to those who have it, but that is no comfort to those who have been left out.

In July 2020, the Chancellor said that although hardship lies ahead, “no one” will be left behind; he did not say “as many people as possible”. In October 2020, the Prime Minister said:

“We are wrapping our arms around the country to give people the support they need to get through this.”

That has not happened. On that basis, it is safe to say that this is clearly not the last time that we will have this conversation.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered eligibility for Government support during the covid-19 outbreak.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay)]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the importance of the youth investment fund. It was a manifesto commitment and it is due to launch in the coming months. He will recall that at the spending review 2020 we allocated some funding to inform pilots, as we shape that launch.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

Almost every time that I, or others Members, have raised the plight of the millions of people excluded from covid support, Ministers reel off the various levels of support that have been made available to those who have access to it. Without again going through the list of supports that are available, will the Minister tell me when the Government are going to put in place some level of support for those who have had nothing so far, and when it will be backdated to?

[Steve Barclay]

The hon. Gentleman will know, as we have discussed it on many occasions, how we have absolutely bent over backwards to attempt to include as many people as possible and have leant into considerable discussion, both with excluded groups and with other related groups. As he will know, it is not a single picture; different groups are not included for different reasons. As a result, we have in part been able to evolve and extend the programmes, and he will be aware that we did so in the last iteration of the self-employed scheme.

Covid-19: Government Transparency and Accountability

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg) and his Committee for their work in undertaking the report. To me, it is nothing short of damning, but to those of us who have been paying attention to the Government’s record on transparency and accountability over the past year, it is entirely unsurprising. We have seen the scandal of corona contracts; when processes that ensure fairness and transparency are stripped away, politics is left open to exploitation. The Greensill and Dyson scandals have shown that the Government oversee a culture of taxpayers’ money being allocated through informal back channels, such as texting and WhatsApp—channels protected from public scrutiny.

The report reveals another dimension to the culture of undermining transparency and accountability: the Government have been misusing data to drive their own agendas rather than to reflect reality. They have sought to make the evidence behind their decisions opaque and unobtainable to the public and to Members. Every day it becomes clearer that they have an aversion to transparency that goes right to their very core. In many cases, they have used data not to inform the public, but to emphasise an argument or create a more favourable view of the Government. UK Ministers have cited statistics without providing sources and acted in a manner that falls far short of the UK Statistics Authority’s code of practice. It is clear that the Government think that the public’s heids button up the back. A Minister, a friend, a donor or even a pub landlord can expect unfettered access through unofficial back channels; anyone else can expect to be taken for a fool.

The report notes that the Government have used data to provoke anxiety rather than a realistic understanding of risk. In an age in which fake news and disinformation feed off public anxiety for nefarious political purposes, that is deeply irresponsible. It is also important to note that transparency is not only desirable for its own sake, but critical in maintaining public trust in our political institutions, especially at a time when we face such a national crisis.

The result of these failures has been a breakdown in public trust and the deterioration of the intergovernmental relationships that ensure good decision making. That is why transparency, openness and accountability should always exist, regardless of any crisis at hand. I recognise the need for swiftness in decision making during the pandemic, but speed must not come at the cost of transparency or accountability. It does not have to; balancing speed and transparency better simply requires Governments to start thinking more creatively about how scrutiny is undertaken. One solution would be something like my Ministerial Interests (Emergency Powers) Bill, which hon. Members have heard me mention on a number of occasions. I know that time has run out for that Bill to be given any sensible consideration at this stage in the Session, but it would put in place a mechanism whereby, even after the awarding of such contracts, a scrutiny process could still take place to hold Ministers to account for those decisions.

When it comes to concerns about data in the report, transparency and scrutiny could be delivered by committing to a full public inquiry on the handling of the pandemic, just as the Scottish Government have done. That move was supported by all parties in the Scottish Parliament, including the Scottish Tories, so I see no reason why colleagues in this place would not also support one. After all, if the Government have nothing to hide, there is nothing to fear.

Lastly, it is hard not to contrast that with the approach we have seen from the Scottish Government, where clear and often frank communication has been key. When my constituents see one Government holding daily press conferences, outlining the data and answering questions in a full and frank manner and another hiding from the facts and shielding from transparency, they can certainly make up their own minds.

Covid-19: Limited Company Directors

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Monday 25th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP) [V]]

It is perhaps fitting that tonight’s debate is being held on Burns night, because Robert Burns was a great egalitarian and champion of social justice, and this is an issue that at its heart is about how we treat our fellow citizens. When the Chancellor said that no one would be left behind, it was a comforting show of solidarity to all:

“A Man’s a Man for a’ that”,

as the bard would have said. But it has been over 10 months and the pleas of 3 million people left to struggle have been utterly ignored. It reminds me of another Burns quote:

“Man’s inhumanity to man

Makes countless thousands mourn!”

The reasons for people being excluded have been raised many times in this Chamber, and the case is absolutely clear. How can 10% of the working population simply be dismissed as collateral damage? On what planet does that make sense? We need the excluded, all 3 million of them. They are grafters. They are innovators. They will help to rebuild after the crisis, if we help them now. Instead, they are being ground down by poverty and despair, by a Government who claim to be business friendly.

Tonight the focus is on small limited company directors, but the issue, if not the detail of the solution, applies to all those excluded groups, and I want to emphasise again that no one should be left behind. I note today’s announcement of another proposal by the all-party parliamentary group on gaps in support. The targeted income grant scheme, costed at about £10.5 billion, would provide some support for the newly self-employed, pay-as-you-earn freelancers and taxpayers excluded by the 50:50 rule, as well as limited company directors. I welcome that contribution. After 10 months without any options drafted by the Treasury, it is getting its work done for it by the very people who have been left out, showing just how innovative and determined a group they are. I very much hope that the Treasury will take this proposal seriously and work with the excluded groups to reach solutions, not scramble for excuses to reject them.

About 2 million actively trading limited companies in the UK are micro and small companies. Collectively, they employ 7.5 million people. As the Minister knows, they fall into a separate category from the self-employed and commonly pay themselves a mixture of PAYE and dividends when their company has a profit. Many company directors found themselves unable to furlough because it would prevent them from working, which might mean the demise of the business. Some were actively excluded due to running an annual payroll with an RTI submission date after 19 March. For those who could furlough, the payments were often too low to live on because they are based solely on PAYE earnings. Many firms missed out on grants, particularly if they had no commercial premises, and discretionary grants can be a postcode lottery.

Ministers have been told time and time again of people’s plight by MPs of all political persuasions, by campaigners and by those who have first-hand experience of the difficulties. If I thought it would help, I would read out some of the heartbreaking stories I have heard, not only from my constituents here in Midlothian, but from all corners of the UK, but so far those real-life stories have bounced like water off a duck’s back. Yet despite the Treasury’s intransigence, this issue is not going away any time soon.

A parliamentary petition calling for support for limited company directors gained more than 101,000 signatures before it closed in October. Many could be watching tonight and praying that the Government do not simply trot out more irrelevant excuses for inaction. I am hoping that there will be something more solid, so I can take away more than the usual promises to listen that come to nothing. It is not enough for the Minister to tell us about what the Government have done for the self-employed or others lucky enough not to fall through the gaps. Talking of support for others suggests a continued denial of reality for those excluded and simply rubs salt in their wounds, emphasising the lack of parity and fairness.

While we are at it, let us dispel some of the myths that have been brandished to excuse inaction. Directors of small limited companies are not fat cats or wealthy tax dodgers; they have small and family businesses. Any tax advantage in partly paying through dividends was dampened long ago. Almost 1 million of this group have only a sole director, be they electricians, beauticians, shop owners or IT professionals. I also note the work of We Make Events to highlight the impact that excluding directors has had on the doubly hit events industry.

People are angry, frustrated and in despair, but we are past the time to plead the case. If the Government do not care about the human cost, perhaps warnings of the economic cost will finally cut through. It is the endgame for many businesses, and cleaning up the mess later will be far more costly than providing support now to prevent them from falling off the cliff. There are 7.6 million jobs reliant on those businesses. Many of the directors are surviving only through spiralling mountains of debt. If they go down, there will be no place for staff to go back to when furlough ends. The small-scale entrepreneurs and wealth-makers we need to lift the UK economy will, instead, be left to wither on a shrinking vine, while an unemployment cliff edge approaches.

The Treasury has had plenty of time to find a solution for all 3 million excluded, and it remains its job and its duty to do so. It has been given a head start by the worked-up proposal for a directors income support scheme—as well as the TIGS proposal I mentioned earlier—which was designed by a coalition of small business leaders, tax experts and company directors, including ForgottenLtd, the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants, the Federation of Small Businesses and Rebecca Seeley Harris of Re:Legal Consulting. It is not a fix for everyone, but it is a viable solution that would help many, and I would very much welcome support of any kind.

The DISS proposal has also received overwhelming cross-party endorsement from the gaps in support all-party group, and I am limiting my own contribution tonight to hear from a couple of colleagues on that point. I understand that the Treasury has had the proposal on its desk for six weeks now, and only just gave a full response on Friday. I know that those who worked on the proposal will want to go through the Treasury’s points fully. Indeed, they would no doubt welcome a meeting to address any concerns expressed.

I understand that there are continued concerns that the scheme is open to fraud, which seem to me misplaced at best, or exaggerated, particularly given the more gung-ho approach of this Government to so many other emergency schemes and contracts. Every scheme has a risk, of course, and it is right to minimise that risk, but it is not a reason to do nothing, as with so many previous schemes. In fact, the DISS’s very design tackles such concerns head-on.

The assumption is that the DISS will run on the same parameters as the self-employment income support scheme. It will rely not on dividends but on a company’s trading profits, which are contained in the corporation tax return, and because directors are under a strict legal obligation to provide accurate information when self-certifying, the scheme has a far higher bar to prevent fraud than many other existing schemes. It has also addressed concerns about administrative burdens, it deliberately mirrors an existing, working scheme, and it uses systems already in place and operated by the Treasury and HMRC. If the Government are still not persuaded of its merits, will the Minister pledge tonight at least to hold discussions with ForgottenLtd and other stakeholders to allow them to raise their concerns and to work together to find solutions? If there are ongoing issues, I would urge the Government not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Should the Government finally decide to act, let me be clear that no one scheme should be seen as a silver bullet, but simply as a first step in the right direction. Campaigning will not stop until all excluded groups receive parity. Above all else, this is fundamentally a moral issue. These people deserve to be supported in the same way that the Government have supported others—nothing more, nothing less. Nothing can justify their lives being shattered by mere technicalities. There has been no wrongdoing, and people are being punished for merely following practices set out in the Government’s own recommendations.

With that in mind, the Government’s sluggish response is almost incomprehensible. At first, the Chancellor had the nerve to paint limited company directors as fat cats not in need of support. Then the Treasury spent months scrambling for technocratic excuses not to take action. Now, thanks to the work of campaign groups and MPs, the Treasury has seen two proposals that would take the first steps towards plugging some of these gaps, while relying on the same infrastructure as other, existing schemes. There are no longer any excuses for the Government not to act. A failure to do so would simply confirm the worst fears of many—that this Government simply do not care and are willing to exclude limited company directors as a deliberate policy choice. That, quite simply, is not something that I or other hon. Members could stand by and watch.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We now go to Brighton for a short contribution by video link from a Member who has the consent of the Member initiating the debate, Owen Thompson, the consent of the Minister, Jesse Norman, and the permission of the Chair, myself, to participate in the debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Owen Thompson Excerpts

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

Perhaps the hon. Lady could let me know whether she thinks that it is right to target support on those who are majority self-employed. She refers to the millions of people, but, as I have explained from this Dispatch Box, 1.5 million of the 5 million people who file self-employed tax returns are not majority self-employed; they earn the majority of their income from things such as employment, which means that they can access, for example, the furlough scheme. That was a decision that was made because we are targeting support in a certain way and we do not know what individuals are doing. By the way, the principle of our decision was supported by every organisation that I spoke to as we designed the scheme. Indeed, they were all supportive of a much higher threshold—a less generous threshold—than the one that we ultimately used, which was a majority of 50%. They were all supportive of something higher— 60%. Rest assured, Mr Speaker, that those who are in that category have median self-employment earnings of between £2,000 and £3,000; it is not the primary source of their income. At that level, all the various other things that we have done will be of some help to them.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

What recent discussions he has had with his Scottish counterpart on the effect of his Department’s fiscal policy on household income in Scotland.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

What recent discussions he has had with his Scottish counterpart on the effect of his Department’s fiscal policy on household income in Scotland.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay)]

This year, the Government have put in place an unprecedented package of support to protect incomes and jobs right across the UK. Analysis published earlier this year shows that our interventions significantly protected people’s incomes, with the least well-off in society supported the most.

[Owen Thompson]

How are those who have been excluded from support so far seeing their household incomes protected when they are getting no support from this Government at all? What plans does the Minister have to meet members of the ExcludedUK group to make sure that those who have had no support at all can actually survive Christmas?

[Steve Barclay]

As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out a moment ago, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury will be meeting that group, but we have also targeted the support, including on those who are majority self-employed. Through that targeting, we have been able to confirm an additional £2.4 billion of support for the Scottish Government.