Libya

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Judd]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the significance of tribalism in securing a stable and secure future for the people of Libya.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we share the transitional Government’s desire for a stable, prosperous and united Libya. This will be most effectively achieved if all groups are represented and have a voice. We look forward to elections in June, which provide an opportunity to achieve this goal. As in any democratic process, we expect groupings to be represented on a variety of themes. This may include tribal factors, but also regional, ethnic, gender and other political factors.

[Lord Judd]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does he agree that this underlines the imperative of being certain that, when intervention is made abroad, there is the most thorough study of the history and underlying social structural realities of the country concerned? In this context, what have we learnt from Iraq and Afghanistan that is of relevance to the situation in Libya?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Policy-makers seek to learn at all times, but against the noble Lord’s experienced comment I must put the rival comment that circumstances differ enormously in different situations, events, times of history, and as a result of the different histories and past of the countries concerned. We faced in Libya a unique situation: a country that had been in tyranny, had visited terrible crimes on this country, and that was on the verge of further massacres. We should be glad of and applaud the courage of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and other Ministers when they decided to support from the air the opposition in Libya at the time. It has brought a much happier Libya, as all the statistics show, and it has defied all the so-called experts, who a year ago said that nothing would work and that it would be a stalemate and a disaster. It is nothing of the kind.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, my noble friend said last July that the Tuaregs should be able to enjoy the full benefits of citizenship and that we had made representations to the transitional national council to this effect. What steps is the TNC now taking to confer citizenship not just on the Tuaregs but on other tribes who were deprived of documentation under the dictatorship, such as the Toubou, the Awlad Suleiman and the Shaama people? Have we also asked the TNC to amend as a matter of urgency Article 3 of the electoral law, which provides that voters must have held citizenship for at least 10 years? Otherwise, some 200,000 people may be deprived of the vote in the June elections.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We have already advised on the benefits of a democracy that allows full rights for voting for the Tuaregs and all Libyans; and we will continue to do so. As to the particular issue of Article 3, I cannot tell my noble friend whether we have raised that specific matter in dialogue with the Libyan Government, but I will seek to ensure that Article 3 is raised if it has not been already.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I supported the action in Libya. It was the right thing to do. However, further to my noble friend Lord Judd’s Question, is there not an irresistible logic that if you go into countries—I am not saying Libya per se, but any country—to change a despotic regime that is massacring and killing its citizens, and I understand all the imperatives of that, if the regime that takes its place starts doing the same, we have to go back in again. Would the Minister agree that that is the case?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We are at the same point as we were a moment ago: it is different in different countries. I agree that certain responsibilities are required. If the outside world decides to intervene, whether for humanitarian reasons to prevent a massacre or because there is open, recognised and legally agreed international pressure to change a regime, those who intervene must have some responsibility for the regimes that follow. These are agonising decisions, which are different in every case. They are currently very prominent in Syria, where we see hideous atrocities unfolding. The question of how those who care for human life and want to uphold civilisation should best intervene is very difficult, as I know the noble Lord fully understands from his previous responsibilities.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that democracy is a far better protector of diversity and pluralism within societies than tribalism, particularly if tribalism leads to conflict?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is unquestionably so. This is the issue that we are now discussing. Libya was and remains a country with many different tribal groups, not all of which necessarily live in tight geographical locations. They are often rather mixed up. Many different forces are at work in Libya, but overall, as a democracy, it is our advice to other democracies that their future will be best assured by pursuing the democratic method.

I should add that the recent survey of what has happened in Libya leaves us with figures that show that 97 per cent of Libyans think that the revolution was absolutely right; 66 per cent support a semi-centralised Government, with ministries spread across Libya; and 79 per cent expect their lives to better a year from now. These are pretty decisive figures, which indicate that if we push for more democracy we are all on the right lines.

[Lord Desai]

My Lords, do the Government have any plans to help Libya to conduct a good election by pointing to the Commonwealth experience in these matters?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The Commonwealth experience is available, and I know that there are leaders in the Commonwealth who are quite ready to provide any advice, support and help that they can. The Commonwealth’s role in monitoring and administering elections is particularly valuable where new constitutions are in the making, as in Libya. Commonwealth leaders have certainly indicated that they stand ready to help in any possible way.

Middle East

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Friday 16th March 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That this House takes note of recent developments in the Middle East.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the purpose of this debate is to reflect on the momentous events of the past 15 months in the Middle East and North Africa and their implications for our own security and prosperity.

Of course, the past 15 months represent only the very beginning of the process of change. In Syria, appalling violence and instability continue. New Governments in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya need to stabilise their economies, draft new constitutions and meet the expectations of their people. In Bahrain, steps are being taken to implement the recommendations of the committee of inquiry into the violence that went on last year, but this needs to be seen through fully. The important consideration is that change will be a long process—possibly very long. The path was never going to be, and will never be, straightforward. There are enormous challenges ahead, both economic and political, but, as my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has said, the whole Arab spring phenomenon does at least raise the prospect of the greatest enlargement of human freedom since the end of the Cold War and of course of a wider Middle East that could be made up of open, prosperous and stable societies. That is of the greatest importance to us in the United Kingdom and to our interests in that region, and it is a goal worth expending prolonged efforts to move towards and showing great patience to achieve.

Perhaps I may be allowed to share with your Lordships some detailed views on the unfolding scene. I shall comment, first, on Tunisia, where in a sense it all began 15 months ago with the dramatic and tragic death of the fruit-seller, Mohamed Bouazizi. I applaud the remarkable process that the people of Tunisia have made in their so-called jasmine revolution. Following successful elections in October, a new broad-based Government have now been established, and the Constituent Assembly is leading the drafting of a constitution for Tunisia based on democratic values and human rights. We maintain full support for the Tunisian transition and the elected coalition Government. Tunisia is also beginning to take a more active role in foreign affairs, and it hosted the important 24 February Friends of Syria meeting. President Marzouki has recently completed a regional tour of all the Maghreb states, arguing strongly that now is the time to chart a new relationship between these countries. That is encouraging.

I shall say a word on Egypt. There, too, truly historic parliamentary elections represented an important step along the country’s path to change. We welcome continued progress on the political transition, including the announcement of presidential elections during May and June, and the transfer of power to an elected President by 1 July. Of course, the economic challenge in Egypt is extremely significant. Its faltering economy fails to meet the public’s high expectations for growth, jobs and better standards of living, and that could undermine the process of political reform. Violence over the past year has shown the scale of the problem that the Egyptian authorities must tackle, including the need to build full respect for human rights. We continue to urge the authorities to enshrine human rights in the constitution, including guarantees for minority rights, and to develop the other building blocks of democracy, such as a free media and a vibrant civil society. That is what the Egyptian people want and this is where we can help.

Turning to Libya, the Libyan authorities are making steady progress in their transition to a peaceful and stable country. In June, the Libyan people will have their first democratic elections in 40 years. I think that they can be immensely proud of the inspiration they have given to others around the world, as indeed we are of the UK’s role in supporting them. There is a lot of hard work ahead, including disarming militias, restarting the economy and building government institutions, but in our view Libya’s future is potentially brighter than it was a year ago. It will take time. The issue of how much federalism there is to be in the new constitution will have to be sorted out. However, we will continue to support Libya, especially in dealing with the legacy of the grim Gaddafi era, entrenching the rule of law and preparing for the June elections in close co-operation with the United Nations and other partner countries. It is to be expected that some will be frustrated by the pace of reform, but just over one year on from the beginning of the revolution the future of Libya is firmly in the hands of the Libyan people, where it should be.

As events in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya, which I have mentioned, and more widely have shown, change has been led by the people of the region. It is not for the United Kingdom or any western power to dictate the pace or nature of the change from outside. We must also respect the choices that Arab citizens make democratically through the ballot box. This includes being prepared to work with new elected groups that draw their inspiration from Islam, while holding them to the same high standards of non-violence, respect for human rights and a willingness to respect the outcome of future elections that are expected of others. These things can, have in the past and will in the future, go together.

There is no one model of democracy; it is for the people of each country in the region to determine their own path in accordance with their different cultures, traditions and political systems. That is why we applaud in particular steps taken in states such as Morocco and Jordan, where leaders have initiated gradual reform processes. My right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister spoke to Morocco’s newly elected Head of Government, Abdelilah Benkirane, on 20 January to offer his congratulations and the UK’s full support for Morocco’s constitutional reforms. This country also stands fully ready to partner with Jordan as it undertakes to implement the reforms of His Majesty Kind Abdullah. We also look forward to upcoming parliamentary elections in May in Algeria, which I recently visited and where we have high hopes of closer relations. We also welcome the conference organised by the Maghreb countries on border security, which called together all those countries, including Algeria and Morocco, to reach decisions on co-operation.

I will say a word about Bahrain. We are urging the Government there to continue to implement the full recommendations of the Bahrain independent commission of inquiry. However, they must go further and implement political reforms. The Government and opposition parties say that they are ready to re-engage in dialogue, and we call on both sides to begin talks quickly. Agreement between the Government and the trade unions on the reinstatement of workers is a welcome move forward.

A much more difficult scene is found in Yemen. After 33 years as head of state, Ali Abdullah Saleh stepped down and formally handed over power to a new president. This followed the agreed Gulf Cooperation Council-brokered plan to bring about peaceful political change. The UK welcomed the inauguration of President Abbed Rabbo Mansour Hadi. The second phase of transition will not be at all easy. The economy is in disarray after years of intense unrest. Security must be re-established and Iranian meddling, which is clearly evident, must be resisted. The humanitarian crisis is growing and many disaffected parties who have been outside the political process will need to be brought to the table in an attempt to resolve their grievances. However, the opportunity is there and it deserves our optimistic support.

I will come to some more difficult areas in a moment. I will say a word about the role of Turkey, which is of increasing relevance and importance. The events of the past year have reinforced the importance of Turkey. It played a very important role in supporting the NATO mission in Libya. With its stable democracy and thriving economy, it continues to act as an inspiration for countries affected by the Arab spring process. We will continue to work together in the context of the G8’s partnership, agreed at the Deauville meeting, to support political and economic transitions in countries such as Egypt and Tunisia. We welcome Turkey's efforts to share its experience of the political process by inviting those involved in the revolution in Egypt to meet its political parties.

In Syria, which I will come to in more detail in a moment, Turkey is a vital partner. We are working closely together as part of the Friends of Syria group, and at the United Nations, to increase international pressure on the Assad regime to end its violence and improve access for humanitarian organisations. Turkey can also play an important role in encouraging Iran to negotiate seriously on its nuclear problem, and we look forward to the prospect of further talks there.

I come to the very difficult and grim situation in Syria. President Assad and his regime have refused to recognise a central truth. The UN estimates that since protests began in Syria in March 2011, more than 7,500 people—I believe 8,000 is the latest figure—have been killed, including 380 children. The Syrian regime is engaged in a brutal campaign of repression through widespread and systematic human rights violations, including torture and the rape of men, women and children. The registered Syrian refugee population in neighbouring countries now exceeds 30,000, although the actual figure could be much higher, and it is believed that more than 200,000 people have been displaced. We continue to play a prominent role in international efforts to convince the Syrian regime that it must end its brutality. There is no room in the Middle East of the future for butchery of this kind.

We seek a robust Human Rights Council resolution on Syria in Geneva, and are working hard in New York to get the UN Security Council to put its weight behind efforts to bring peace and improve humanitarian access. We continue to call for an immediate end to the brutal repression of human rights, and demand an end to all violence and immediate and unhindered humanitarian access. We support the work of Kofi Annan, the special envoy of the UN and Arab League, to bring about an end to the violence and facilitate a political transition. We also support the efforts of the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, the current Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs, who is known to us all. We call on the Syrian Government to implement their commitments to the Arab League by stopping military action, withdrawing their forces from towns and cities, releasing political prisoners and allowing the media access. We strongly endorse what the Arab League and Kofi Annan are doing. The Foreign Secretary recently addressed the House of Commons on the issue and announced the suspension of the service of the British embassy in Damascus and the withdrawal of all diplomatic staff. They have now left Syria. We continue to follow developments on the ground very closely.

I have few minutes remaining, but there is much more to say on the area. We must do all we can to support the people of the region as they build more open and inclusive democratic societies. To this end, we launched the highly praised Arab Partnership Programme to provide both political and economic support to the region. We have committed to provide £110 million over four years. In Egypt and Tunisia, we supported the electoral processes and helped to encourage political debate. I would have liked to share with noble Lords much more what we are doing in facing these issues.

The old dangers also remain, and with your Lordships’ permission I shall return to them at the end of the debate. Obviously, the Middle East peace process remains central; the conflict there is poisoning the whole scene in the Middle East. Our priority remains to bring the parties to negotiation. The ongoing Iranian nuclear crisis remains a cause of a very grave concern, and we are 100 per cent committed to a peaceful resolution of the issue if we can achieve it. There will be further talks with the Iranians, although a time has yet to be fixed.

In the Middle East mosaic there are of course many blemishes and stains. We make no secret of our wish to see gradual reform in great states such as Saudi Arabia. However, we should also note the way in which the states of the Gulf work closely with this country. Everywhere in the region there is genuine and deep affection for Britain. That is why some of the GCC states show a strong interest in links with the Commonwealth, while their trade and business interests turn increasingly to the east and the rising powers of Asia.

I have no more time to expand on what we are doing and intend to do. We can be proud of our role, our diplomacy and our expertise deployed throughout the region—especially, if I may say so, that of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office under the inspired leadership of my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, William Hague. I look forward greatly in the coming debate to hearing your Lordships’ insights into these tumultuous, dangerous and challenging events. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, as I and, I think, others will have anticipated, this has been a debate of many points of view and many insights, drawn on your Lordships’ colossal experience of dealing with the enormous range of countries that we have covered. I hope that I shall be forgiven straight away if I do not cover satisfactorily all these nations with their situations of change and tumult, but time is the limiting factor.

It was the noble Lord, Lord Williams—who obviously spoke with unique experience in the light of his past employments—who called Syria the eye of the storm. He brought home the ghastly complexity of the issue there and made a grim but, I hope, a realistic comparison with the endless tangles in Bosnia, which took years to unravel. I hope that in a sense his pessimism is wrong when he speaks about the years that it will take for us to see settlement in Syria, but we have to be realistic and he may of course be right.

Many other noble Lords spoke on that issue and I shall try to divide the 20 minutes that I have into commenting mainly on Syria, Iran and the Middle East peace process, and I shall also answer a range of detailed questions from my noble friend Lord Avebury and others. I shall see whether I can get that all in.

The noble Baroness, Lady Symons, in a very well informed speech, asked whether we were liaising with the Arab League. The answer is yes. On Syria, the Friends of Syria mechanism, which has met already and meets next, I think, in Istanbul, is an opportunity for constant dialogue—not merely liaising—with the Arab League about its position. Of course, there are some differences of emphasis within the league, as we know, between those in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who are more forward in suggesting direct help for the opposition groups, and others who are not so certain. We want the Arab League to formulate its views clearly, and we are working with it at every point to address the issue.

It would be incredible if I said that any of us could see exactly how the Syrian scene will work out. Atrocities have been committed that have appalled everybody; the refugee problem is crowding in at the Turkish border, with talk of mines being laid by the Syrian armed forces; it is clear that Iran is helping to import weapons to support the official Syrian army; and it is absolutely clear from the vivid reports of the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, and others that Baba Amr and other places have been utterly flattened and destroyed in a pattern that is unforgivable.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, rightly asked about the position of those who have committed atrocities, and about possible charges in the ICC. I must be careful in the precise words I use to answer him because there are legal constraints. However, as I told your Lordships the other day, we certainly would not rule out referral to the ICC, as suggested by Mrs Pillay. The COI report does not specifically recommend such a referral; nor does the Human Rights Council have the power to refer cases. It would be for the UN Security Council to refer the situation in Syria to the ICC prosecutor. I am told—this is in addition to the point that I made the other day—that it could take anything up to a year before this is clarified.

I have not much to add about the grimness of the situation in Syria. Many excellent and wise points were made by noble Lords. The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, and the noble Lords, Lord Wright and Lord Chidgey, all spoke about it, and I will not add anything at this stage.

I turn now to Iran. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, said that it was the great shadow over the area, and of course it is. The universal opinion that clearly comes from almost all sides of this debate is that if we reach the stage of bombing and violence it will be a failure of policy. All options remain on the table; we must be realistic. We have a twin-track policy of putting considerable pressure on Iran through financial measures, including the withdrawal of SWIFT facilities that was reported in the press today and was referred to by one noble Lord. We also have in place the oil embargo, which has its problems but is clearly closing in on Iran. That is the pressure side of the track.

The other part of the track is that there must be engagement and talks. Iran has said that it will come back to talks. The noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, who has taken a very forward and skilled lead in dealing with the matter on behalf of the EU3+3 and the western powers, is negotiating on the timing of a meeting. We can all see the danger; this could be a trap. There could be a lot of talk and meanwhile Iran would plunge ahead with its weaponisation, which would lead to a cascade of proliferation in the whole region and potential disasters of almost unimaginable proportions. That must be prevented. That is our twin track. Firing missiles at Iran would be regrettable at any stage; but as the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, said, doing so now would definitely be the wrong course. The debate about whether Israel could act independently is one that we watch with great unease. We would regard it as a disaster to see any kind of unilateral action of that sort at this stage.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, asked what if, despite everything, weaponisation—not merely the capability to build nuclear weapons, but the production of them—goes ahead in Iran. This is hypothetical. It would, of course, be a statement that we had failed, but that is just the put-down answer. This is a danger. Could we go in a completely different direction as the noble Lords, Lord Ramsbotham and Lord Hannay, mentioned? Statesmen must turn their minds towards the ideal of moving to a WMD-free or a nuclear-free zone. All international leaders have made statements saying that that is what they would like to see, but we have to be totally realistic about the difficulties and challenges that would present. I am afraid I have to say from this Dispatch Box that at the moment that lies very far away, almost in the dream category of where one could go if the present twin-track strategy, which we are determined to pursue, did not succeed.

The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, spoke about a different kind of win-win strategy. These are ideas that must be looked at seriously and kept on the table, but the main strategy that we are sticking to at the moment is intense pressure on Iran to bring it to the table, which is now on its way to being step one. The step beyond that is to get it to come clean on its nuclear activities at present and its nuclear military aspirations and to deter it from them.

The third major category of discussion in the debate was to do with the Middle East peace process for Palestine and Israel. We all quote to each other the adage that everything in the Middle East is connected to everything else. Clearly, the peace process and some kind of progress on it, if we can discern any, if there is any hope at all, is connected with the Iran situation, the Lebanon situation and the entire balance of activity and dangers throughout the Middle East.

Let me turn to the MEPP and try to answer some of the questions that were raised by a range of noble Lords. I will not name them all. We are aware that Fatah and Hamas have signed an agreement that President Abbas will become Prime Minister. It is too early to make a detailed assessment of these developments. We will continue to follow the situation on Palestinian reconciliation very closely. Any technocratic Government should be composed of figures who are committed to the principles set by Mahmoud Abbas in Cairo in May last year, who uphold the principle of non-violence, are committed to a negotiated two-state solution and accept the previous agreements of the PLA. We have made it consistently clear that we will engage any Palestinian Government who show through their words and actions that they are committed to the above principles.

We welcome the effort to hold Palestinian elections this year. It will be very important that all sides work to ensure that conditions are in place for the holding of free and fair elections. I know there have been reports that Hamas has shifted its emphasis. Our policy is clear: it must renounce violence, recognise Israel and accept previously signed agreements. Hamas must make credible movement towards these conditions, which remain the benchmark by which its intentions will be judged. That is what we want to make clear on that situation.

We are thankful that the Egyptians have brokered a ceasefire in the recent period of very high tensions. One should not forget that a vast range of missiles, some of very high technical capability, have been rained on Israel by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other organisations. Luckily, the Iron Dome technology of anti-missile defence by Israel seems to have prevented 90 per cent of them reaching their targets. Nevertheless, it is obviously intolerable from Israel’s point of view that that should be the challenge. Of course, it will also be said that Israel has applied its force the other way. There is always a balance and there are always two sides to these arguments. It is impossible to say anything that does not slide one way or another.

[Baroness Tonge]

I thank the Minister for giving way but I must point out—I hope that he agrees—that the raining of missiles on southern Israel from Gaza always follows a targeted assassination by the Israeli Air Force. He may not have heard—but I certainly did and I can send him a transcript—the BBC World Service interviewing a teacher in southern Israel who confirmed that fact and said that they always knew when missiles were going to come over because it was always after a targeted assassination.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I will not go further into the argument of where it stands. There is of course an earlier riposte to that. Perhaps for once I could just stand on the observation, with which I hope my noble friend would agree, that—I think that the words of Mr Netanyahu were to this effect—if there is quietness on one side, there will be quietness on the other side. There were targeted assassinations; there are constant threats of the elimination of Israel; there are these ripostes by rockets; and there is the position of Hamas, which has stood aside from some of these rocket attacks. All these are pieces of the jigsaw. I will not go further in the judgment because, wherever one stands, it offends one side or the other.

I should say a word about Palestine’s membership of the United Nations. The UK considers that Palestine largely fulfils the criteria for UN membership. We will not vote against the application because of the progress that the Palestinian leadership has made towards meeting the criteria but nor can we vote for it while our primary objective remains the return to negotiations. Currently, there is no proposal for a UN General Assembly resolution. If President Abbas returns to the General Assembly, the UK will use its vote in a way that makes a return to negotiations more rather than less likely. That is where we stand in answer to the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay. Those are the three major issues, although they are not by any means the only issues that have been discussed throughout this very lively debate.

The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, is certainly owed a comment on Bahrain. He asked about the unconditional release of Abdulhadi al-Khawaja and other leading activists. We are working with the Danish Government and the EU on this case. We and our EU partners are urging the Bahraini authorities to deal with the cases of all those currently in prison quickly and transparently. As to whether we will ask the Bahrainis to start negotiations with victims on compensation et cetera, we understand that the Bahraini authorities are discussing compensation for those affected by the unrest during the year. My colleague, Alistair Burt, has urged reconciliation and has been immensely active in this field. We have also urged the Bahraini authorities to deal with all the remaining cases of those in prison quickly and transparently. We remain convinced that meaningful dialogue between the Government and the Opposition is the best way forward for Bahrain to return it to the stability that it deserves. Will we urge the regime to allow freedom of expression, without which reform is not possible? My answer is that the United Kingdom supports freedom of speech and expression in all countries and we have made this clear to the Bahraini authorities.

I do not expect these answers fully to satisfy those who are concerned about what has been happening in Bahrain, but we believe that progress is being made. There is evidence of a serious commitment to dialogue and we will continue to work on that. We are far from satisfied or in agreement with everything that has been done or is being done, but we believe that the trend is positive and we will keep pressing.

In a fascinating contribution, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, asked among many other things about the Chilcot inquiry. The inquiry has advised the Government that it will need at least until the summer of 2012 to complete its report and be ready for publication. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, asked two questions of great profundity and said that I had not mentioned Turkey and the European Union. I had not because there are so many other things to mention and I did not think that we could get into that aspect. It remains our view that Turkey’s application to membership of the European Union makes sense for the future, but obviously it is up to Turkey. If it decides in its repositioning in the new Middle East that membership is no longer a priority, that is for the Turkish Government.

The noble Lord also asked me the great and fundamental question: is the whole of the process that we are discussing going to weaken or strengthen moves towards democracy in the future? The honest answer is that we hope that it will. We are optimistic and we believe in the long term. Many countries may have to go through Islamic phases, but this will take us in the right direction. Even so, there will be many problems along the way.

The noble Baroness, Lady Nicholson, told us about the Yemen and her rather frightening experiences there, which we read about in the papers. We are extremely grateful to her for the role that she has played and for her words about the British and other ambassadors. Indeed, I made some comments in my opening speech on that point. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked me a string of questions, which I have not had time to answer in full. He asked about the role of DfID and the work that we are doing. The department is putting enormous effort into the Arab partnership, including an economic facility to support inclusive, sustainable economic growth, focusing primarily on Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan and Libya.

We cannot possibly predict what the political landscape in the region will look like even one year from now. One certainty is that we need the major nations to work in concert, which means that somehow we have to see more co-operation from Russia and China to achieve real progress. Of course my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been working day and night with his colleagues on trying to move towards the UN resolution that Russia may approve. We hope that China may then follow. Positive Russian assistance on Syria is essential and we must have a better contribution from that great country.

I believe that the people of the region have made absolutely clear their desire for respect for their own nations and for themselves, and for a stronger voice in their future. Many of them have been extraordinarily bold and brave in their actions, almost unbelievably so. Now we must show the same boldness by remaining positive, constructive and ready to assist, without interference, to help the onward march of change towards what we hope will be better times for the region and its remarkable people.

Motion agreed.

Syria

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we continue to fund humanitarian organisations working in the region to provide help to those in need and have already given £2 million to that effect. We have also increased core funding significantly to humanitarian agencies this year to cover their ongoing work. The stabilisation unit operated jointly by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Department for International Development and the Ministry of Defence is looking at what future support Syria might need from the UK and the international community to make a political transition to an open, democratic and stable state. It has also organised the recent deployment of an expert team to the region to collect evidence of human rights violations and atrocities committed by the Syrian regime.

[Lord Chidgey]

I thank my noble friend for that full reply. However, following reports on Australian television by the director of Human Rights Watch, Nadim Houry, confirming that the Syrian army is now sowing landmines along its borders directly in the path of fleeing refugees, threatening yet another atrocity, will the Government redouble their efforts to persuade other nations, particularly Russia, China and Turkey, to try to press Assad into allowing independent observers into Syria? As an extension to my noble friend’s Answer, will he give me more detail on timing in relation to deploying the stabilisation unit and security resources when the transitional period has started?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is quite right. Access for independent observers or, indeed, access for humanitarian relief is the problem in this very dangerous situation. We have been working hard at the United Nations. My right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has been working extremely hard and taking the lead in trying to persuade Russia and China to take a more positive and co-operative attitude in all aspects, including, of course, getting a more effective UN resolution forward which would, we hope, increase the heat and pressure on Mr Bashar al-Assad. That is what is going on at the moment.

As for the mine situation, I have seen the reports of mines being laid. Syria is not—regrettably but perhaps not unsurprisingly—a signatory to the international prohibitions against land mines. This is yet one more area where we will increase to the maximum volume and ability our pressures on the Syrian regime to behave in a less uncivilised and more understanding way.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

The Minister referred to the human rights mission that has been sent to the region. Would the Foreign Office classify decisions by the Syrian regime to prevent humanitarian access to the areas that need it most as a breach of international humanitarian law which may, one day, need to be prosecuted by the International Criminal Court?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is certainly possible. The position vis-à-vis the International Criminal Court is that the commission of inquiry of the UN, as I think the noble Lord will know, clearly stated its concerns that crimes against humanity have been committed in Syria and that this may be a matter for the International Criminal Court. The United Kingdom will not rule out referral to the International Criminal Court, as suggested by Mrs Pillay, the human rights commissioner. The COI report does not specifically recommend a referral to the court, nor does the Human Rights Council have the power to refer cases. It would be for the UN Security Council to refer the situation in Syria to the ICC prosecutor. That is the formal position and I must stick closely to those words about it.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean]

My Lords, is not the difficult thing that human rights abuses are being carried out every day? Does the noble Lord have any information about the appalling report that boys over the age of 11 are being arrested and face a very uncertain and horrible future in the city of Homs? Does he agree that, without the courageous reporting of people like the late Marie Colvin, we do not have the information on a day-by-day basis? We have it only retrospectively. What we need to know is what is happening while it is happening. Can the Minister give us any information about what our colleague, the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, has been able to say following her visit to President Assad?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have to agree with almost all that the noble Baroness says. Our friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, has, indeed, been there and did get some access to Baba Amr. She has reported back to the United Nations in very grim terms about what she found; practically every building had been destroyed. As for the other news we get— inevitably not directly because of the access problem and the fact that not a single journalist alive remains in the area—that may well be true. There are clearly horrific events and horrific murders and atrocities taking place. Not every one can be corroborated, but it is unquestioned that there are evil doings almost beyond the power of words being conducted in the name of the Syrian Government and perhaps on the opposition side as well. These are revolting events and in due course I hope all responsible will be held to account for them properly.

[Lord Wright of Richmond]

Can the Minister confirm that the Government still support the efforts by the former United Nations Secretary-General, Mr Kofi Annan, to bring a peaceful solution to the crisis in Syria? I am delighted to hear from the noble Lord that we are channelling our assistance through international organisations and humanitarian organisations. Does he agree that we should also be sure that any assistance given to Syria does not complicate the mission of Mr Kofi Annan?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I am sure that that approach is right, but the difficulty is, as Mr Kofi Annan himself has found in his most recent discussions with Bashar al-Assad, that the Syrian President seems very reluctant to move from his present policy of giving certain reassurances while the violence and killing carry on. That is the difficulty. As the noble Lord knows, Mr Lavrov was there, accompanied by other senior Russian officials. They thought that they could get some undertakings from Bashar al-Assad; and, indeed, words were given. However, even while they were speaking, the killing was continuing. So I am afraid that at the moment, while one appreciates that there has to be a twin track of trying to get this man, this president, to desist from his all-out violence of the most atrocious kind, all efforts by Kofi Annan and others have so far not proved successful. This remains the line to go forward. We are working with the Russian and Chinese officials and ambassadors, and with the United Nations, to make them see that we must have a combined approach.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that in bringing Russia to the table it is important to recognise that Saudi Arabia’s and Qatar’s attempts to arm the rebels will only prolong the conflict, not help to bring it to an end? Does he further agree that Russia’s long-standing animosity to Saudi Arabia, not least as regards Afghanistan, will not make it come to the table unless we reduce the arms and hostility going into the conflict from other players?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend may be right. The Arab League as a whole has taken a strong lead. Some members of the Arab League—my noble friend mentioned Qatar and Saudi Arabia—say that they want to go further and provide arms. We are not sure at this moment whether they are doing so. They may have a case for taking that action in particular areas. However, our general approach is the same as that of my noble friend. We believe that the best course is to try to get peaceful transition, to get both sides to desist from the killing, and particularly and obviously to get the Syrian Government to desist from their atrocious and murderous attacks on communities in Homs and other cities. That must be the approach. Pouring in arms on a large scale would certainly not help.

Death Penalty

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sheldon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they are making to the relevant Governments to secure the abolition of the death penalty in China and in other countries.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the Government regularly urge the Chinese authorities to cease the use of the death penalty. Our most recent representations to the Chinese Government were made in China in January of this year during the 20th round of the UK-China human rights dialogue. We will continue to raise our concerns with the Chinese authorities at every appropriate opportunity, just as we do with the Governments of other countries who apply the death penalty, in line with our published strategy on abolition.

[Lord Sheldon]

My Lords, the noble Lord has given a very useful reply. It has been estimated that capital punishment in China amounts to 5,000 executions, covering a wide range of crimes including tax evasion and drug trafficking. It has had more executions than all other nations combined. What action should other nations consider?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is right that the number of executions in China is, to us, unpleasant, and we have campaigned constantly against the level. There are some signs of a positive response to our efforts and those of many other countries: China has reduced the number of crimes that carry the death penalty, from 68 to 55; and the supreme court has ordered lower courts to suspend death sentences on a number of occasions. We are urging China to set a timetable for ratifying the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. There is some anecdotal evidence—indeed, even visible evidence—that important policy-makers in China are beginning to push forward strong advice that standards in China should move towards those of the rest of the responsible civilised world.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, what can we say to countries that prescribe the death penalty for offences such as adultery or apostasy? My noble friend will have noted the unlawful deportation by Malaysia of the writer Hamza Kashgari to Saudi Arabia, where he faces execution for something that he said on Twitter. Will the Government propose to the UN that states which execute people for apostasy should be made ineligible for membership of the Human Rights Council?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We most certainly do not accept that apostasy should be criminalised let alone that it should attract the death penalty. We will certainly make appropriate representations both to the country concerned and in the right fora of the UN. Our efforts to restrict the use of the death penalty apply universally, regardless of the crime for which it is imposed. That includes imposing the death penalty only for the most serious offences—if it must be imposed at all—such as murder. Freedom of religious belief, and certainly apostasy, should not in our view in any way attract the death penalty.

[Baroness Stern]

My Lords, I should like to ask the Minister about the situation in the Commonwealth, and I should declare an interest as I chair the All-Party Group for the Abolition of the Death Penalty. Twenty-one of the 54 Commonwealth countries still retain the death penalty. In view of the disappointing outcome at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in October last year on human rights, can the Minister tell the House what new strategy has been developed to deal with abolition in Commonwealth countries?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Like the noble Baroness, I certainly declare an interest in the Commonwealth. She is quite right. The figures that I have show that 36 of the Commonwealth countries retain the death penalty in statute, but of those, 15 are in effect abolitionists and have not used it in practice. Eleven countries have carried through executions since 2000, and that is not satisfactory. It is certainly one of the values of the Commonwealth system that we are in a position to press very hard on those countries to see whether they will move towards abolition more quickly. My right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary called for the abolition of the death penalty when he addressed the Commonwealth People’s Forum in Perth last October. So the pressure is on, and we will certainly continue. However, I emphasise that the very existence of the Commonwealth enables us to increase that pressure and focus it effectively.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that in arguing against the death penalty, in line with our Government’s policy, the difficulty is that the countries concerned can then say, “Yes—what about the United States?”. What representations do we make to the United States? It represents the weakest point in the argument against the death penalty.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would not myself put it in the way that the noble Lord has. The United States is one of our priority countries, and we regularly make our views known to the US authorities bilaterally through the European Union and in any other way that we can. We are particularly concerned about individual cases of British nationals facing the death penalty in the USA. It is undeniably a problem, but I do not think that it weakens the argumentation that can be put forward in other countries—where, here and there, there are some definite signs of progress. I remind the noble Lord that, for instance, in 2009 Barbados announced its intention to abolish the death penalty. There is a UN General Assembly resolution coming up on this whole area which we are strongly supporting.

[Lord Dykes]

Further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, does my noble friend agree that the United States is a particular problem because there are well over 4,000 people on death row, many of whom have been there for many years? That must amount to cruel and inhuman punishment. Some of those are mentally retarded people. Will the Government make real efforts to persuade the United States and the federal government to drop capital punishment?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We will certainly continue to do so.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us what action the Government are taking over the abhorrent policies in some countries to exact the death penalty on young people under the age of 18?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I suspect that the noble Baroness is referring particularly to some of the horrific stories from Iran. We regard those with horror, and we continue to press extremely hard, in line with our general desire to see the abolition of the death penalty worldwide, where those kinds of particularly repulsive and ugly penalties are inflicted.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, following the position on the US, when we make our welcome representations to the Chinese authorities, do they in fact say, “Well, how do you deal with the US?”. Does it in fact blunt our own representations that the US does have the death penalty in so many states?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot answer precisely having not been personally involved in all these bilateral negotiations, but my impression is that it does not. My impression is that countries either say, “We listen politely to your views”—as, for instance, in the case of Japan—or, “We recognise that we must move forward”, in some other cases; or some of them give us a rather dustier answer and say, “These are internal matters for us. Please go away”.

European Parliament

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rennard]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will bring forward proposals for revising the system for electing British Members of the European Parliament in 2014.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we currently have no plans to do so.

[Lord Rennard]

My Lords, does the Minister recall the very serious controversy in 1999 over the introduction of the closed-list system for electing Britain's MEPs? Does he agree that while Britain is under an obligation to use a proportional system for choosing MEPs, there are much better ways of doing so? Could not consideration be given to using, for example, the transferable system already in use in Northern Ireland for electing MEPs, which is in use in Scotland for local elections and which the Government propose for future elections to the House of Lords? Failing that, will the Government at least consider using an open-list system, which would give more power to voters and less to political parties?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend has a point. The present closed-list system was introduced in 2002; it was the general principle of PR that came in in 1999. My noble friend is right that the closed system gives considerable weight to parties and that a different system might give greater weight to candidates. For the moment there are no plans to make a change, as I indicated. However, the Question makes it clear that issues lie ahead about changes in voting procedures and constitutional reform, and that it might make sense for a future Parliament, or in future in some other way, for these matters to be reopened and considered.

[Lord Grocott]

My Lords, is not the clear lesson from the experiment in proportional representation that has been used in the European Parliament for the past 15 years that it leads to a lower turnout, far more spoilt ballots and a far weaker connection between the Members of the European Parliament and their constituents? Is it not time that we listened to the people and the overwhelming vote 12 months ago by a majority of two to one in favour of first past the post and against fancy electoral systems, and recognise that the simple change that we should make in Europe is to scrap the existing system and revert to first past the post?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is certainly a viewpoint. My query would be whether it is the system that produces the low turnout or the cause. One could make an argument either way. The noble Lord has his views on matters of voting procedure and no doubt we will have many opportunities in future to debate them.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, is not the splendid point made by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, more than a viewpoint? Did not the British people emphatically reject PR last year, and is it not absurd that either House of the British Parliament should consider continuing this in Europe or, worse still, introducing it for any elections to a second Chamber?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The difficulty with that is that in 2002 there was no rejection of the closed-list system that was introduced. There was agreement by the Government of this country and many other countries in the European Union—in fact, all of them—to go for a PR system of some kind. How that will work in future in relation to this place is quite another debate, one on which obviously there will be strong feelings all round. As far as concerns the STV system in Northern Ireland, or the closed-list system for Europe, they were adopted and signed up to by this country, and if we want to unsign and change the system we will have to have a lively debate about it—as I suspect we will.

[Lord Rooker]

Would not the European Parliament be more relevant if the people there were Members of the national parliaments of the countries of the EU, rather than the unaccountable people who are there at present?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We are getting into matters about the virtues of the European Parliament on which a number of leading Members, including from the noble Lord's own party, have expressed quite ripe views recently—one of which was that the whole thing should be abolished. Given that we need to spend a lot of time thinking about our own future as an institution, perhaps we should be cautious about going round recommending that others should be abolished.

[Lord Kinnock]

Is the noble Lord aware that for the past few minutes, he has been listening to some rather elderly politicians, of whom I am also one, who are looking to the future firmly marching backwards? That is not a persuasive position, especially when they neglect the fact that the only international, directly elected Parliament in the world, which represents part of the progress of the European Union and its associated democracies, is a directly accountable Chamber, unique and very effective in its work. Whatever the future of this Chamber, arguments about it will not be enhanced by giving the impression that the European part of the democratic procedures of this country introduce a lack of representation and accountability, which is not true.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I shall steer clear of the ageism aspect of the question. I see exactly what the noble Lord feels with his considerable experience in these matters, but what we have not yet resolved in relation to the great European Parliament is the remoteness worry. The trouble is that when you have great central institutions, accountable although they may be, they are inclined to be a bit remote and further away than our own parliamentary procedures or, indeed, local government. This is an age when people want to have contact—close relations, as the Laeken declaration said—with their representatives to make them accountable. There is still a problem that the European Parliament yet has to address about its remoteness from voters.

[Lord Teverson]

My Lords, the European Parliament is a great institution, but will the cohort of MEPs who will arrive there in 2014, which my noble friend asked about, still be required to go to two locations, or can they just go to Brussels and greatly increase the reputation of the European Parliament by having only one seat and save the European budget some €200 million?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

It has been the view of Her Majesty’s Government under successive Governments that this is a very elaborate, expensive and out-of-date arrangement, but unfortunately there is one considerable and powerful country in the European Union that takes a very different view. Until it can be persuaded otherwise, I fear that this double-hatting and double-travelling will have to go on.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, is the European Parliament not merely a democratic fig leaf for the whole ill fated European project because it cannot even propose legislation? So, if we have to have elections to it, should we not keep the existing system which, after all, allowed UKIP to beat Labour and the Liberal Democrats at the most recent election? UKIP came second; therefore it must surely be an excellent system.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think that slightly echoes the comment I made earlier that one must not associate the outcome of certain elections with the procedure of the election. I do not know whether UKIP would have done better under first past the post or any other system. Who knows?

Caribbean Nations

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Benjamin]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to maintain and secure the United Kingdom’s long-standing friendships with Caribbean nations.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to maintaining and strengthening our excellent relationship with the Caribbean. The Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary led a strong delegation of Ministers, senior officials and businessmen to the UK-Caribbean Ministerial Forum in Grenada in January. At that forum an action plan was agreed with the Caribbean nations that will benefit both the region and the United Kingdom. This plan focuses on security, economic resilience and sustainable development.

[Baroness Benjamin]

I thank my noble friend for that encouraging Answer. However, I am sure he is aware that the Caribbean nations are feeling very vulnerable at the moment, partly due to the unfair air passenger duty and the crippling EU banana and sugar agreements. Also, an increase in drug trafficking is corrupting the area. Can my noble friend tell the House when the fine words that came out of the UK-Caribbean forum will be put into action to avoid Caribbean nations having perhaps to turn to untested friendships for support?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I assure my noble friend that the decisions reached at the forum will lead to action. A new strategic partnership has been agreed with the forum and we have undertaken to engage the Caribbean nations before every G20 and OECD to see that their interests are at the fore. As my noble friend knows, there is a large DfID programme. We want to make the European economic partnership agreement really work and we will press our EU colleagues on that front. As for the APD issue, I agree that this is contentious and difficult. It was agreed at the forum to continue the dialogue on APD-related issues and we are open to further discussion. For the time being, it has been decided to retain the existing banding but, as I said, this matter is very much in our minds.

[Lord Tomlinson]

Is the noble Lord aware that this year is the 50th anniversary of Jamaican independence? In view of the large number of Jamaicans forming a diaspora in this country, can he say whether Her Majesty’s Government have any plans to celebrate that anniversary and what form it will take?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This is obviously a celebration in which we wish to participate. To mark the Diamond Jubilee this year—which of course is not the same as the anniversary to which the noble Lord has referred—Prince Harry will visit Jamaica and the Earl and Countess of Wessex will visit a whole range of other islands in the Caribbean. I think that that is all I can tell the noble Lord about the matter at the moment but it is very much in our minds.

[Lord Boswell of Aynho]

My Lords, does the Minister consider it important that there should be a continuing and visible Royal Navy presence in the area?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, we agree that there should be. A Royal Fleet Auxiliary Ship is there all the year round. It has a royal naval presence on it for six months of the year, and it has had some success. The noble Lord is absolutely right.

[Lord Harrison]

Will the Minister report on the levels of trade between the United Kingdom and the Caribbean and whether it is on an upward or a downward trend? Can he further report whether he has confidence in the Commonwealth Business Council to promote that trade?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

On the second point, we have both confidence and hope: the Commonwealth Business Council has gatherings in the Caribbean and is very much on an upward trend as an organisation. As the noble Lord will know, down at the Heads of Government Meeting in Perth, which was attended by most of the Caribbean nations, there was a vast concourse and an enormous deal-flow generated by the Commonwealth Business Council. So I think that it can certainly help. As for direct bilateral trade between this country and the Caribbean region, it is the biggest chunk of trade of the whole area, taken for Caricom as a whole. It is, I think, on a steady upward trend, and it is one that we certainly intend to encourage.

[Lord Phillips of Sudbury]

Can my noble friend tell the House whether there are plans to renegotiate any of the tax arrangements between this country and those Caribbean countries that are tax havens?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot give a specific answer, but these matters are always under review.

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

My Lords, I note the Minister’s reply that Prince Harry intends to visit Jamaica as part of the 50th anniversary celebrations. Would it not be more economical if the newly elected Prime Minister of Jamaica, the right honourable Portia Simpson-Miller, were invited to visit the United Kingdom?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The more exchange of invitations and the more visits on both sides—which would certainly be very welcome—the better. I cannot give a specific response to the noble Lord’s suggestion, but the more we travel between our regions and the more we understand dialogue together the better the future will be for both the UK and the whole Caribbean region.

Middle East: Quartet

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the role and future of the Middle East quartet.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the Government remain determined to do everything possible to achieve a comprehensive peace in the Middle East. We believe the quartet still has an important role in achieving this.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

Given the breakdown of talks on 26 January, in the last iteration, and given that one side to the talks has no confidence whatever in the representative of the quartet—to the extent that they will not even shake his hand at the meetings—and that the other side in the talks flagrantly disregards the representative’s deadlines for submissions and proposals, can the Government really stick to the view that they have complete confidence in the future of the quartet? Is my noble friend aware of President Sarkozy’s comment that the quartet is dead—

“Let’s stop kidding ourselves”?

Will my noble friend tell the House what proposals the Government have to put the quartet on a new footing under new leadership?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We all share my noble friend’s disappointment at the slowness of progress in the Middle East peace process and the difficulties that are being encountered—as well as at the suspension of the talks in Amman, although they have only been suspended and not abandoned altogether. However, I think that she is a shade harsh in her general judgment. We pay tribute to the efforts of Mr Blair and others in improving the situation on the ground in occupied Palestine, but one must be realistic: the quartet alone cannot achieve the progress that we all want to see. Such progress can happen only if the will is there, but the will is not present on all the necessary sides in the peace process to make progress along the road map. If the will is not there, the quartet cannot achieve the impossible.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

Does the noble Lord agree that the quartet is divided—for example over Syria, given Russia’s view on it—and that it has been ineffective, save marginally at the lower infrastructure level; but that we cannot kill it because there is no alternative, and one day there may be a role for it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think that the noble Lord is realistic. The quartet is not in a position to achieve the magic progress that we want to see, but the moment may come when its usefulness can be developed. In the mean time, we retain confidence in it as a part of the mechanism for taking things forward. Clearly, however, many other aspects need to be improved and strengthened.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

My Lords, how does the effect of the Iranian nuclear weapons crisis on Israel bear on the ostensible agenda of the quartet? Is there not a lack of reality in the timescale as regards the urgency of various matters? Will that have a bearing on the present agenda of the quartet?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is asking about the broader issue of Israel and Iran and the very tense situation that clearly exists. I think it was President Obama who, on becoming President, was advised that everything in the Middle East is connected with everything else. Israel’s concerns about Iran, and all our concerns about Iran’s attempt to move to nuclear weapons, are part of the Middle East imbroglio. However, we must not let that take our eye too much off the need for the Middle East peace process to go ahead and for the road blocks along that process—including the building of settlements, which is clearly a major obstacle—to be overcome.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, with the rate of Israeli settlement in Palestine continuing apace and apparently unchecked, in precisely what respect has the situation improved on the ground?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

As far as settlements are concerned, it has not improved at all. On the contrary, although the Jerusalem municipality has told the British representatives who make constant representations that for the moment it does not plan any further settlements, or any further demolition in east Jerusalem either, the settlements seem to continue. So there has been no improvement there. I was referring to Palestine industry and enterprise and some beginnings—even in the miserable conditions of Gaza—of advance in enterprise, thanks to some noble and dynamic contributions by British businesses.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, if the Palestinian parties, Fatah and Hamas, reach agreement in the coming weeks on constituting a technocratic Government with Mahmoud Abbas as both President and Prime Minister, will the British Government use their influence to deal directly with the Government who emerge from that process and not be impeded from doing so by any objections from elsewhere?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The answer is yes, provided that Hamas shows some readiness to conform to the quartet principles, renounces violence and plays a constructive role. Provided that that happens, we could then move forward, and certainly the British Government would use all their influence and support to ensure that that process did move forward.

[Lord Alderdice]

My Lords, from my visit there last week, I have come away with the sense that some important changes are taking place. Indeed, on the Palestinian side, there is a sense of confidence which is perhaps partly to do with the application to the United Nations and other developments. However, is it not clear that the efforts of the quartet itself are resulting in little more than nugatory negotiations and arbitrary deadlines? Given that elections are now in the air so widely among the participants both inside and outside, would it not be better for the quartet to pull back and analyse how it could produce a strategy that over the next three to four years will produce serious negotiations, rather than to continue kicking at a door that will not lead it anywhere in the very short term?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think that my answer has to be the same as the one that I gave to my noble friend earlier. The quartet is part of the mechanism, but many other things need to change and improve. There is the question of the recognition of Palestine as a state. The British Government believe that Palestine has fulfilled most of the conditions for that although we think that the ultimate statehood will be acquired when the occupation ends and when peace is achieved. These things must all be pressed together. I do not think that it would be wise at this stage to say that the quartet must be put on the back burner and not play any role at all—it could play a role. At the moment, there are obviously major difficulties in the way.

[Baroness Tonge]

My Lords, I have just returned from a conference called by the Arab League in Qatar on the subject of Jerusalem. At the end of that conference a resolution supported by the Arab League was passed to ask the United Nations to try to stop Israel’s annexation and Judaisation of east Jerusalem. Will the British Government and the quartet support this move?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is part of a jigsaw, the aims of which would certainly have our full support. The position is that after the suspension of the Amman talks, Mahmoud Abbas and others have made it quite clear that the aims are: border security, on which Israel is supposed to report back by the end of March on what it does; a freeze on the settlements, which certainly has not occurred; and that if neither of those things happens, then indeed the whole process will go back to the United Nations—and we shall continue to use our best efforts to make progress there.

Sudan and South Sudan

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 16th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we have not yet had independent confirmation of the bombings in the Jau area. Although we note South Sudan’s claim that Jau is within its territory, the fact is that both countries claim it is theirs. Whatever the case, we condemn all indiscriminate bombings that could affect civilians. It was at least encouraging that on the same day the two countries signed their non-aggression pact. They also agreed to move ahead with the establishment of a joint border mechanism, consisting of troops from both armies and from the United Nations Interim Security Force for Abyei, to oversee a demilitarised buffer zone. We urge both Governments to make good on that commitment now.

[Lord Chidgey]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. However, does he not share my concerns that the apparent bombing of Jau is in breach of the non-aggression agreement signed the day before and that in fact it follows earlier attacks with bombers and tanks? These human rights violations have apparently been committed—there is compelling evidence of this—by aircraft and tanks sourced from Russia and China, which leads into my first question. Are our Government supporting a call in the UN to suspend all international arms transfers to the whole of Sudan? Is the Minister aware that the director of the International Organisation for Migration has made it very clear that it is impossible to move the half a million people planning to return to South Sudan by Khartoum’s 8 April deadline? Therefore, will the Government press very strongly for humanitarian aid workers to be given access to these camps and for the returnees’ deadline to be extended?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend, who is considerably closely acquainted with these issues, has raised a number of them with me. On his last point concerning the returning refugees, this is potentially a very serious problem, particularly if the Khartoum Government insist on a deadline for their return, which we utterly reject. Of course we want to see humanitarian access for the refugees in every possible way and we keep pressing on that issue.

On the other matters that my noble friend raised, we have achieved a Security Council statement at the UN but, frankly, the prospect of getting a substantial measure at the UN Security Council is just not good at the moment—the agreement is not there. There is of course an embargo on arms to the whole of Sudan—the north and the south—and that remains in place. However, while my honourable friends and other countries are working day and night to achieve more movement, I echo and share my noble friend’s realism that progress is very slow and that the commitments are not being adhered to.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that last Thursday, speaking at Westminster, the UK special representative for Sudan and South Sudan estimated that in Southern Kordofan some 300,000 people have now been displaced as a result of the aerial bombardment campaign by Khartoum? Is he also aware that on Friday last the United Nations relief agency and refugee service said that some $145 million would be needed to deal with that crisis? In a Written Answer on 21 June last, the Minister said:

“Reports of such atrocities will have to be investigated and, if they prove to be true, those responsible will need to be brought to account”.—[Official Report, 21/6/11; col. WA 294.]

In November, he said that,

“we continue … to seek urgent access to those … affected by the conflict”.—[Official Report, 9/11/11; col. WA 66.]

What progress is being made to bring to justice those responsible for this manmade catastrophe and to get access to those areas of Kordofan?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The short answer to the noble Lord is: not enough progress. The special representative to whom he refers, Michael Ryder, is at this moment back in Addis Ababa seeking to get the negotiations within the context of the African Union High-Level Implementation Panel process going again. It is a constant struggle and progress is very slow.

On the particular aspects of the increasingly horrific humanitarian situation in Southern Kordofan and in the Blue Nile area, I am advised that the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, under the guidance of our former colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, does not for the moment want to press for cross-border access either to Blue Nile or to Southern Kordofan because of the impact that that would have on wider humanitarian activities in Sudan. However, it continues to press for cross-line access to all areas of Southern Kordofan. We are supporting it in that approach but we are, of course, up against the continual denial by the Khartoum Government of proper access by humanitarian agencies. It is a difficult situation.

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that crucial to the future stability and security of South Sudan will be assistance towards building effective bilateral trade, security and political relations with its neighbours and the wider east African region? Can he say what DfID is doing to build capacity in terms of good governance systems and structures, strengthening the east African community and supporting South Sudan in its expressed desire to join the Commonwealth?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The answer to the right reverend Prelate is that DfID is doing a great deal. It is putting many millions in infrastructure aid and technical support into this new, young nation of South Sudan and into better relations and connections with the whole east African community. The prospects in the long term are very good, but the prospects in the short term are extremely bad, not least because there is, at present, a total block for various reasons on the sale and transfer of oil from South Sudan, where most of it lies, through the pipelines to the north, where it has to be distributed. That, of course, is slicing the revenue of South Sudan almost to zero. We have to overcome these short-term difficulties, but longer term we ought to be able to build a new and more prosperous east African community, which would certainly include South Sudan.

EU: Recent Developments

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 16th February 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That this House takes note of recent developments in the European Union

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, I hope that noble Lords will welcome the opportunity for a European Union debate in the light of the very rapid changes and developments in the European Union, and that we will be able to bring to bear the accumulated wisdom of your Lordships' House on how we should proceed in the interests of this nation and of European strength and unity in the coming weeks and months.

Although the global pattern of influence, power and wealth is fast changing, Europe remains our neighbourhood and our largest immediate market. Obviously it is in a stable, prosperous and vibrant neighbourhood that we want to live within the European Union, on terms of close co-operation and friendship with our neighbours. It is therefore in Britain’s clear, immediate interest to see our neighbours’ problems sorted out, notably the present eurozone tangles. These are having a chilling effect not just on the eurozone but on our economy and the global economy, including even the great new markets of the emerging world on which we increasingly depend.

Addressing the eurozone problems in a realistic and sustainable manner is one of the best ways in which the conditions for renewed economic dynamism can be found and secured, both here and across the whole European economic space. The package of measures agreed by the European eurozone states in October last year set out the immediate steps that must be taken if the eurozone is to hold together and endure. Europe's banks must be properly capitalised; the uncertainty in Greece must be brought to an end, which we hope will happen soon—and without utterly destroying that noble country; and a firewall must be built that is strong and high enough to deal with the full scale of the crisis.

In the longer term, much more will be needed. Proper fiscal discipline built into the system will be the only path that goes forward for the eurozone. This is the inevitable consequence of the decision taken in Maastricht in 1992 to set up the single currency area, to which the United Kingdom did not sign up, and outside which we thankfully remain. For those inside the area, it was always the hope that, following monetary union, greater fiscal discipline would indeed somehow follow and be achieved. It was deviations by several states from this hoped-for path of fiscal discipline that built up into the current eurozone crisis, for which new rules on closer fiscal integration aimed at trying to correct the problem had to be hastily hammered out over recent months.

At the December European Council, the issue was whether these new rules aimed at closer fiscal union should be incorporated in the European Union treaties or implemented through an intergovernmental agreement. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister went to the European Council prepared to agree a treaty of all 27 countries, but only if there were proper safeguards in place to ensure that the integrity of the single market was preserved. They were not an opt-out for the UK, as some have suggested; they would have applied to the European Union as a whole, ensuring that the basic building blocks of the single market—that is, a level playing field upon which competition takes place—were properly protected in all member states. These safeguards were not acceptable to some, and so the Prime Minister vetoed the proposal to have a treaty change for all 27 member states. To have incorporated the changes in the intergovernmental agreement into the EU treaties as a whole now without proper safeguards would have been the effect of signing up in December.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

I am sorry to interrupt so early in the noble Lord’s introduction, but he mentioned safeguards. Some parts of the Government seem to say that those safeguards were solely to do with the City of London. Does that mean that the rest of what was agreed on closer economic and monetary integration would have been quite okay?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Not necessarily. I would like to give a straightforward answer to the noble Lord, who follows these things, but there are a number of qualifications and details that I want to come to in my speech. I have tried to set them out most carefully because I know your Lordships’ detailed interested in them.

I was saying that to have incorporated the changes in the intergovernmental agreement, the fiscal union agreement, into the EU treaties now without the proper safeguards, which would have been the effect of signing in December, if my right honourable friend had gone ahead with it, would have risked changing the character of the European Union profoundly. It would have strengthened the euro area, but without corresponding balancing measures to maintain the integrity of the single market at 27. I shall come to the nature of those safeguards in more detail and why we felt they were not present.

As a result of the December meeting, eurozone countries and others are making separate arrangements outside the treaties for strengthening budgetary discipline, including by ensuring that there are much tougher rules on deficits. The Governments of 25 member states, so far, have indicated that they intend to sign up to the intergovernmental agreement reached in January.

This is a treaty outside the European Union. We are not signing it, we are not ratifying it and it places no obligations on the United Kingdom. It does not have the force of European Union law for us, European Union institutions or even the countries that have signed it. European Union legislation can be agreed only in the European Union Councils of Ministers, and we are a full member of them. There will be no inner group of European countries distorting the single market from inside the EU treaties. That is the protection that the Prime Minister secured in December, and that protection remains.

There has been much comment about the use of the European Union institutions, and I want to come to that. The new agreement sets out limited roles for the European Commission and the European Court of Justice. The legal implications are complicated and hinge upon how the agreement is implemented. It is for this reason that we have reserved our position.

We have been clear that we will not allow the institutions to be used in any way that would undermine the interests of the 27, in particular, the single market, and that we will insist that the EU institutions continue to work for all 27 nations of the European Union. Indeed, those institutions are established by the treaty, and that treaty is still protected. The intergovernmental agreement is absolutely clear that it cannot encroach on the competences of the EU and that measures cannot be taken which undermine the single market. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear to colleagues at the informal January European Council, we will be watching closely the implementation of this new intergovernmental treaty, and we are able to take action if our national interests are threatened.

We want to see a reformed and strengthened European Union better able to cope with the new international pattern of powers and influences. I agree with the comments that I read, made by the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, that the EU model needs “dramatic reform”—I think those are his words—but we do not want to be part of a fiscal union. We do not want to be part of the eurozone, and we have made clear that the British people have a say before any further competence can be transferred to the European Union.

Having said that I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, I slightly disagree with his suggestion that it is the European social model that should guide us, as I believe we should have confidence that we can develop potentially our own model, especially based on wider capital ownership, and wider ownership and distribution on a fair and balanced basis in our society, and that is what we should think in terms of.

Nevertheless, as I have said, it is in the UK’s interests that the eurozone sort out its problems. The UK’s attitude is supportive and constructive. We are involved in discussions on the implementation of this agreement and, as ever, in the machinery of building a prosperous and competitive Europe and a good single market. These remain our aims. The view that the only way to exert influence in the European Union is through surrendering more sovereignty and control to Brussels is, frankly, outdated.

The EU is not monolithic. It contains flexible arrangements such as the single currency and the Schengen agreement, and it is right that the European Union should have,

“the flexibility of a network, not the rigidity of a bloc”,

as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said in his speech at the Guildhall last autumn. The UK is at the forefront of efforts in Brussels to develop our union according to this model, which we believe to be the right one.

Britain’s agenda in Europe is to promote growth, competitiveness and jobs. We have said repeatedly that the best way in which the European Union can drive growth and create jobs is to complete the single market, establish trade deals with the fastest growing parts of the world—which we are seeking to do on many fronts—and cut the regulatory burdens on business.

Last year the European Commission estimated that growth in the Union this year would be 0.6 per cent. The IMF now projects minus 0.1 per cent. Competitiveness remains Europe’s Achilles heel. More than half of EU member states are now less competitive than they were last year. It is essential that countries across Europe take bold action to recover their economic dynamism, get to grips with their debts, and secure growth and jobs for the future.

This is why the UK has been arguing for a pro-business agenda in Europe. We are pushing for the completion of the single market in services, where there are still 4,700 professions across Europe to which access is regulated by government, and in the digital area, where there are over a dozen separate copyright regimes. Together, these measures could add more than 6 per cent to European Union gross domestic product within 10 years.

We are also committed to reducing regulatory burdens, especially for small and medium-sized enterprises and microenterprises, and pushing forward a patent package to support innovation. This has been discussed in Europe for over 10 years and decisive progress is now at last being made.

We are also actively pushing for decisive action to get trade moving. We want 2012 to see significant movement on EU free trade agreements with major partners such as Japan—which has been going for many years—India, Canada and the United States. Completing all the deals currently on the table could add an estimated €90 billion to Europe’s GDP. An agreement between the EU and the US could have a bigger impact than all of these put together.

For countries outside the European Union, the UK remains the gateway to the largest single market in the world. Of the 1,200 Indian firms operating in the EU, over half have their headquarters in the UK. Britain is a world-class destination for international business, and the most attractive foreign direct investment destination in Europe, and remains so. Being outside the euro does not affect that.

My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has emphasised that we need to develop our commercial, economic and political presence in fast-growing, emerging markets. We certainly do. At the same time, Europe is our neighbourhood and our biggest market. It is full of innovation and potential for the future. More than 40 per cent of our exports go to EU eurozone member states—more of course to Europe as a whole. Trade with the EU allows us to specialise in what we produce best and to run trade surpluses with other countries, such as the US and Australia. Our aim is to use this position to expand our exports to fast-growing markets in addition to our existing exports—not as an alternative or instead of them but, I repeat, in addition.

The Commonwealth is one such area. It is one of the great networks of the future. It provides a gateway to many of the great, new markets. It includes some of the world’s fastest-growing economies, with members showing democratic values and similar legal and accounting systems. These provide solid foundations for doing expanding business and a platform for trade, investment, development and, in turn, prosperity. Trade within the Commonwealth totals more than—

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for giving way. In light of all the wonderful objectives that my noble friend is setting out in his speech about British exports and how Britain is poised to gain even greater advantages in world markets, how does he explain the fact that the British Government barely opposed the clinical trials directive that is having considerable cost on our most successful manufacturing industry, the pharmaceutical industry, which brings in about £3 billion a year surplus on our balance of payments? Yet here we are in Britain with our pharmaceutical industries losing ground in terms of clinical trials to China and India. Ultimately, that will incredibly damage the British economy.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend puts forward one of the many challenges that we have to address. I will not go into the full details at this stage, but he is right; there are several areas where the challenges are very great for the whole of Europe, including this country, from the rising power of the great emerging markets. We have to face the fact that, as I began by saying, the world’s pattern of wealth and competitiveness has changed radically over the past five years. I am not sure that many people in the media or, dare I say, some of our great policy thinkers have always grasped this fact.

The changes that we are making provide solid foundations for doing business and a platform for trade, investment and development, which in turn will be the prosperity, or perhaps I should say in a more realistic tone the survival and maintenance, of our existing standards. Trade within the Commonwealth totals more than $3 trillion annually. Our European membership is very valuable in promoting trade interests and access to new markets such as these.

The UK continues to play a strong role in achieving collective European action on many foreign policy issues, when appropriate and effective, in order to advance our shared interests and values. We drove concerted action forward at the EU level in response to Libya. The EU was actively engaged since the early stages of the conflict and we secured a UN resolution and assembled a multinational coalition force faster than at any time in history. Today, we are playing a prominent role in the EU response to the continuing violence in Syria. Some 11 rounds of EU sanctions have already been agreed and we hope to agree further measures on 27 February at the Foreign Affairs Council.

We have been at the forefront of action on Iran where, along with France, we led the EU in agreeing an unprecedented package of sanctions. The UK continues to be a strong supporter of European Union enlargement, which helps to create stability, security and prosperity. Enlargement brings significant benefits for the United Kingdom. An enlarged market obviously expands the opportunities for trade and investment. We want European nations to succeed not just as an economic force but as an association of countries with the political will, when they wish to mobilise it, and the values and the voice to use their collective weight to make a difference in the world.

Looking ahead to the March European Council, the UK will focus on ensuring that EU initiatives and projects deliver growth and jobs as agreed at the January Council. The UK plays an important role in these and other issues of significance for the Union as a whole. We are driving forward the single market, we are improving competitiveness across Europe and we are leading decisive foreign policy action when collective action works. European eurozone members are often our closest allies on some of these issues. Britain is part of the European Union not by default but by choice. It does reflect our national interest to be part of a single market on our doorstep and we have no intention whatever of walking away.

We want Europe to be a success, and not just for parochial reasons. We are going through a fundamental rebalancing of global power, a point I have just made to my noble friend, as economic weight shifts from west to east and from north to south; some of us have been pointing this out for two decades. Political power is diffusing from the G7 to the G20 and beyond, and from global groupings of states to regional groupings such as the Arab League, the African Union, ASEAN and many others.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

My Lords, I am very interested in all that, but the Prime Minister withdrew from the European People’s Party. Does the noble Lord agree with that? I thought that the EPP was in favour of a muted Europe, not an entirely neutered Europe.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is a debating point from the noble Lord, if I may say so. He believes that that is what has happened, but some of us believe that we are working in ways that fit the pattern and evolution of the role of the European Union to be effective in the 21st century. I do not accept his words at all.

As I was saying, we are dealing with a new landscape to which Europe as a whole must adjust, as indeed must this country. Our commitments to Europe must be seen as part of a larger repositioning of ourselves in a world in which no country can go it alone. To maintain our prosperity and political clout we must work together with our neighbours and our friends. We face the same challenges and will be much stronger in dealing with them if we do so together.

I end by saying that we want to be quite clear that Britain is an active and influential member of the European Union and will remain so. That is the basis of this Government’s approach to European affairs, as an integral part of our response to the changing global conditions generally. As old enmities and differences recede, it is time to forge new alliances and strengthen old ones in a reformed European Union, through the Commonwealth—indeed, perhaps I can add even here in the British Isles with our Irish neighbour, which has been through so much with great courage and to which Her Majesty the Queen recently paid such a fabulously successful visit. The coming year of the Diamond Jubilee and the Olympics gives us a golden opportunity to reposition Britain firmly in the new international landscape that is now unfolding, and that is what we will do. I beg to move.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, the noble Lord did say in the course of his speech that he would say something about the safeguards. I wonder whether he would concede this point. If we do not know what the safeguards were, how on earth can we judge whether the Prime Minister was justified in casting his veto when he did not get the safeguards? It is nonsensical for the Government now to ask us to judge this on the basis of what the Prime Minister did not get when we do not even know what he asked for. Can the noble Lord lift the curtain just a little on what safeguards the Prime Minister actually demanded?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I would like to tell the noble Lord a great deal more and detail the reasons why the decision was taken not to make this into a total EU treaty. Before I answer him in detail, the larger point is that it would have profoundly changed the whole nature of the European Union. That was the essential reason why my noble friend recognised and argued that if there was to be an attempt at a fiscal union pact and it was to go ahead, it would do so without the United Kingdom. That is why he stood back from it.

On the details, let me give four very strong reasons why it did not make sense to go ahead with agreeing with the treaty—I have to find the precise bit of paper in order to do this, which is not so easy.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister made it clear that our preference was to move forward as 27 with the protections of the single market. That is what we sought. The Prime Minister in his post-assembly European Council statement explained the safeguards that the UK was proposing, which were modest, reasonable and relevant to ensuring that the integrity of the single market was preserved. The Government do not confirm the authenticity of documents or published informal draft texts proposed during the negotiations.

There were four areas where we felt our involvement might damage the single market and our national interests. First, we were concerned about the voting powers on financial levies; secondly, we were concerned when we sought assurances, including on the voting procedure for handing powers to European adviser agencies; thirdly, we were concerned about the freedom that member states had to wreck their own financial stability regimes. I believe that we also sought a fourth assurance. None of those assurances was forthcoming.

I apologise to the noble Lord for my hesitation in putting my finger on all these issues, but they were complex and our concerns were very precise. Those safeguards were not provided.

[Lord Harrison]

My Lords, in setting up ESMA, the European Securities and Markets Authority, have we not already given away that power in order to frustrate credit default swaps legislation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Judd. We are both on the same committee and discuss many EU matters in great amity. However, I have to say that I do not follow him on the financial transaction tax.

I make no apologies for focusing the major part of my contribution to today’s long overdue debate on the economic and financial travails of the eurozone, particularly those aspects of the crisis that directly concern this country. This long-running saga still has far to go and, however it ends, will have profound effects on all members of the European Union, not just on the members of the eurozone. That basic reality has been grasped from the outset by the Government. I pay tribute to the firm and repeated conclusion of the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer that it is in Britain’s national interest that the eurozone should surmount this crisis; and to their rejection of the view, expressed on the wilder shores of their own Back Benches in another place, that we could regard the disintegration of the eurozone with equanimity, or even with glee.

A second reality, which the Government have been less willing to grasp, is that as a non-participant in the eurozone—in saying that I do not intend to stray into a discussion of the pros and cons of our joining the euro at the outset—our views on the handling of the crisis are neither particularly welcome nor at all influential. There is a lesson to be learnt from this about the consequences of being absent and our subsequent marginalisation in the decision-making processes of the European Union.

That lesson leads me directly to the events of last December’s European Council and the serious error of judgment that was made on that occasion. It is first necessary to dissipate some of the myths that have accumulated around that meeting and which now, like layers of varnish on an old master’s painting, obscure the picture beneath. I fear that several more layers of varnish went on in the introductory statement of the noble Lord, Lord Howell.

Myth No. 1 was propagated by the Prime Minister himself when, in his Statement to Parliament after the December Council, he said that he had refused his signature on changes to the treaty. No such signature was proposed in Brussels on 9 December; there was no text to sign. The past two months have been taken up by negotiating a text, which is to be signed next month by 25 of the 27 member states, with Britain a mere observer of the process. Why the Prime Minister rejected the tried and trusted precedent set by the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher, in the context of both the Single European Act and the Maastricht treaty—the practice of participating in negotiations to ensure that British interests were safeguarded, while keeping in reserve the right to refuse to sign if they were not—remains a complete mystery to me.

Myth No. 2 is that there was a veto at all on 9 December. All that happened was that the other member states, whose determination to move ahead was not in doubt well before that meeting, felt compelled to use an entirely predictable procedural bypass to achieve their objective of strengthening the fiscal disciplines attached to eurozone membership. Incidentally, the Government have said that they strongly support that objective and believe that it is entirely logical and reasonable.

Myth No. 3 is that the treaty to be signed in March is in some way objectionable to the United Kingdom, thus justifying our refusal to sign it. On three successive occasions I have asked three separate Ministers—the Leader of the House, the noble Lord, Lord Howell, and the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon—to state what provisions in the treaty are objectionable to the United Kingdom and on three occasions—alas, a little bit like St Peter—they have each refused to answer. I scored a fourth one last night with an official from the Foreign Office who the noble Lord, Lord Howell, very kindly brought along to brief Members of the House before today’s debate, and who spent a very long time failing to answer that question for the fourth time. I think it is reasonable to draw the conclusion that the honest answer to the question is none. That is not a surprise really since the main safeguards we needed were to ensure that the treaty’s objectives did not have any mandatory effect on non-eurozone members such as the UK unless and until they decided to join the eurozone; and, secondly, that single market issues will continue to be decided inside the normal EU treaty procedures. They are now there, enshrined on the face of the treaty.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I know we have been told not to interrupt each others’ speeches, and I apologise for doing so, but I think that the noble Lord is confusing varnish with lacquer. Layers of lacquer improve an object rather than destroy it or obscure it. In my opening speech I set out four very detailed areas in which—as the Chancellor made clear to the Treasury Committee subsequently—the safeguards were not available, and were not going to be available had this been a European Union treaty. If we had signed it, or gone ahead with the agreement that night, it would have become a European Union treaty. That would have changed the nature of the European Union. We did not want that. We do not want to be part of a fiscal union. We do not particularly want to be part of a political union. Therefore, we stood outside, and the remaining signatories have to work out intergovernmentally how they will solve their problem. I see no difficulty with that and I cannot understand why the noble Lord, with his considerable experience and brilliant mind, if I may say so, cannot get hold of this basic, simple, central fact.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for having, after two and a half months, actually managed to extract an answer to some questions that I have been asking. The answer is, alas, unconvincing because it does not relate to the text of the treaty that is going to be signed in March; it relates to the wonderful Cheshire cat smile protocol which we are not allowed to see, which the Prime Minister put forward on 9 December, and which there seems to be a singular lack of enthusiasm for communicating to Parliament, despite Parliament’s role in scrutinising matters which are liable to become EU law, which was obviously the intention of the Government. Naturally I respect what the noble Lord said about the reasons relating to the protocol, but they do not relate to the treaty. However, I move away from that.

Myth No. 4 is that, in some mysterious way, the events of 9 December have strengthened the British Government’s hand in negotiating single market legislation regulating the financial services industry. The Government’s refusal to share with Parliament the text of the proposals they put forward on 9 December in that respect means that we cannot judge their value. What we do know is that they were rejected by all other member states. The situation with regard to financial services regulation thus remains exactly as it was on the day before the December Council. That, too, seems to be the view taken by the City in the briefing that the City Remembrancer has sent, I think, to all Members of this House, and which I received yesterday.

Myth No. 5 is that the treaty somehow makes improper use of the EU’s institutions, in particular the Commission and the Court of Justice. Fortunately, the Government have decided not to pursue that legal will o’ the wisp for the moment. If we really have ended up somewhere where it is not in Britain’s national interest to be, as I believe is the case, on the outside looking in as decisions that could have a considerable impact on this country’s economy are taken what is to be done? The simplest answer would be to sign the treaty, but I have no illusion that the Government are currently prepared to run the gauntlet of their rebellious Eurosceptic Back-Benchers. Alternatively, the Government could, if and when this treaty enters into force following ratification by 12 of the eurozone countries, give serious and constructive consideration to triggering the provisions of Article 16 of the new treaty, which envisage it being brought within the EU treaty structure. That is the course that follows the logic of the conclusions of the report that your Lordships’ EU Select Committee has made to the House, and I hope that the Minister who is to reply—and I am not asking for an immediate response—will recognise that and reflect carefully on it.

It may not be surprising that the eurozone crisis has dominated all other policy aspects at recent meetings of the European Council and seems set to continue to do so, but it obscures the fact that events in the world outside the EU continue to occur at a dizzying rate. The EU is now far too important an international player to be able to take time out from those events. Nor has it been doing so, and the Minister very reasonably brought us up to date on a number of the things that the EU has been doing. Recent decisions to tighten economic sanctions against Iran and Syria, and contemplating relaxing such sanctions following the welcome easing of repression in Burma, are all decisions of considerable significance and are welcome. They underline how much more effectively the EU can work in the foreign and security policy field when its members act together. The admission of Croatia in 2013 is a reminder, too, of the unfinished business of further enlargement, which holds the key to the stability of the Balkans and the eastern Mediterranean.

I conclude my remarks with a plea to the Government to put more effort and eloquence into promoting a positive agenda for the European Union. If Britain has plenty of positive ideas in addition to those that I have already mentioned, as I believe it does—such as completing the single market in services, energy and the digital industry, pushing ahead with negotiations for freer and fairer international trade, supporting the Arab spring and strengthening the EU’s strategic partnerships with the main emerging powers, such as China, India, Indonesia, Brazil and Mexico—the Government should surely be speaking out about these ideas, loud and clear. They should do it not only outside this country but inside it, where so much that is negative about the EU dominates the public commentary. Above all, the three main parties that support our EU membership should be finding ways of articulating the fundamental political and economic case in terms that update for a modern audience but do not supersede the arguments that led us to join the EU 40 years ago—I pay tribute the noble Lord, Lord Bates, who reminded us that those early arguments on the foundation of the European Union have not lost their value—and which were endorsed in the 1975 referendum by a two-to-one majority.

Zimbabwe

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 13th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what information they have on the progress being made towards the framing of a new constitution and preparations for elections in Zimbabwe.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the Zimbabwe constitution process continues to move forward despite attempts to disrupt it at the end of 2011. We understand that a draft exists and expect a referendum between June and September 2012. The discussions facilitated by the Southern African Development Community on an election road map continue and will, when concluded, establish the necessary reforms that must be completed before polls can be held. We stand ready to support SADC in this process in any way we can.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, does my noble friend say, therefore, that the draft constitution will be published before the end of the year? What help have we offered either through the European Union or the Commonwealth to SADC to ensure that adequate electoral machinery is in place for the referendum on the draft constitution to take place in good time before the deadline for general elections in June next year?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The constitution and its production is naturally a matter for the Government of Zimbabwe, but we hope that this will come forward. We certainly take the view that it would not make sense to have an election before the constitutional process. Although Mr Mugabe suggested that there should be an election in March 2012, we really do not think that would be a serious or realistic proposition. As for working with SADC, we and the EU want to work through it to develop the right conditions for fair and sensible polls and for proper monitoring. The Commonwealth and other organisations will be ready to accede to any request from SADC for that to happen. We are ready to help, but with SADC in the lead it is obviously for it to indicate at what point it wants our help, in which case that help will certainly be forthcoming.

[Lord St John of Bletso]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is no clearly defined road map towards the constitution being agreed, nor the referendum, with the constitutional assembly arguing each week about procedural issues? With SADC being the guarantor of the GPA and the GNU, what pressure can Her Majesty’s Government put on SADC to enforce this procedure to the timetable?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord’s analysis is quite right: there is a good deal of toing and froing, and SADC is indeed the guarantor of the global political agreement. He asked what pressure we can put on it. We are in constant contact with SADC; and we in the EU, and the Commonwealth arrangements, are also in contact with it. It is our view that we should leave the lead to SADC in this matter and in mounting the pressures on and persuading the Zimbabwean authorities, but we will certainly do our best within that context.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

Does the Minister accept that although violence has been reduced somewhat in Zimbabwe, it is still unacceptably high? That being the case, will he not only exert pressure but encourage President Zuma, the South African Government and SADC to do everything possible to ensure that there can be no proper constitutional change until the violence has ended and the global political agreement is agreed in full?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We certainly agree with that. Mr Zuma has of course taken the lead in SADC, with the support of its other member countries. They have made more progress in recent times than I think the pessimists feared, and we will continue on the path of encouragement and pressure and of offering any services that we can at the right time.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, bearing in mind the difficulty of trusting the integrity of the present regime in Zimbabwe, what steps are being taken internationally to monitor the referendum when it takes place? It could be on the lines of the delegation sent by my noble friend Lady Thatcher, which was led by Viscount Boyd and included me from this House, to invigilate the first elections since independence in 1979?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

All of us, including the Commonwealth, are quite ready to do the monitoring, but it has to be by the request of the Government concerned. If there is no request, one cannot simply impose the demand to monitor unilaterally, so progress depends ultimately on the willingness of Zimbabwe to have external monitors at all. That is something we will continue to press very hard indeed.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that successive Governments, to their very great credit, made it clear that they would wish to invest very considerably in the reconstruction of Zimbabwe once certain indices of performance were achieved? Can he tell the House what those indices of performance broadly were, and how near or far the Zimbabwean people are to having those plans realised?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, if they fit the criteria for investment, we do not discourage new investment projects in Zimbabwe absolutely, but obviously they must be closely associated with the ending and the avoidance of any kind of violence, as I should have emphasised in my answer to the previous question, and must be aimed at benefiting the people of Zimbabwe, not at ending up with a lot of money going corruptly into the hands of a few. That is the broad pattern of criteria.

We are dealing with an economy that is now beginning to grow again, although admittedly from a very low level—I think that there was 9 per cent growth this year. Substantial aid is going in, not—I emphasise—through the Government but only through the non-governmental agencies. The infrastructure is beginning slowly to improve, helped also by massive Chinese investment. All these are conditions that we are watching very closely, and there are some firms willing to investigate and proceed, in very careful ways, with investment in the recovery of this once rich, and we hope rich again in the future, country.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

Would the Minister join me in arguing that it is increasingly likely that Mugabe will orchestrate a repeat of the 2008 election? The strategy then was ruthlessly to unleash the army, the police and the intelligence services on the political opposition and the people of Zimbabwe. In that event, what can the international community do when China, which benefits so substantially from the mineral wealth of Zimbabwe, including diamonds, blocks any concerted efforts to deal with ZANU-PF’s terror and intimidation?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness’s prediction could be right, but I hope it is not. We are absolutely determined to see that the forthcoming election does not repeat all the violence and intimidation, terror and distortion of the 2008 election. There are ways in which we can work to minimise the chances of a repeat of 2008: we can engage with the Chinese in pointing out that they carry certain responsibilities, and we are doing so; we can work through the human rights agencies, the United Nations and the European Union and get them to mount pressure; and we can support all the voices in Zimbabwe that are urging that there should be real constitutional reform and a sensible election rather than the distorting and violent pattern of the past.