(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, the number of amendments discussed today highlights just how many issues there are with the exploitation of leaseholders. The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, mentioned the option of some pre-scrutiny with people who have expertise in this area—although I am not suggesting that I am one of them. That might have benefited this legislation.
Normally, with leasehold properties, people think that they are buying a house or a flat, but then they are laden with decades of financial obligations to a landlord who can charge a ridiculously long list of things to the leaseholders. That does not seem to be a very fair system. There are far more problems than your Lordships’ Committee will be able to resolve, so there is clearly a need for further legislation when a new Government come to power. I hope that the new Government will consider the issues raised in Committee, including my Amendment 78B, which shines a light on the growing trend of public assets being funded by leaseholders. For example, green spaces, play areas and roads are often being charged to leaseholders, even when they are freely accessed by the wider community.
These leaseholders are facing a double taxation: they are paying their council tax, which is used to fund play areas and roads provided by the local authority, and they are also being charged by their landlord for play areas and roads that are within the estate. There seems to a case for these publicly available assets to be brought into local authority management, ownership and funding. I would appreciate it if the Minister, and any budding future Ministers, could give their thoughts on the issue and perhaps undertake to look at it further.
My Lords, my main focus so far has been boosting leaseholder control over service charges by removing barriers to the right to manage. However, we must dramatically reform the law for leaseholders who cannot gain this control and who wish to stand up to their freeholder on service charges. It is positive that the Government are enforcing service charge transparency and disclosure with the new right-to-inform scheme in Part 4, Clause 55, which makes changes to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, but I believe we need to go further and make it easier for leaseholders to challenge rip-off freeholders with their service charge.
Tribunals are very stressful: they take a long time and often do not have the power to enforce their decisions. This leaves leaseholders in a very strong predicament. Leaseholders normally have to file another application with the county court to get their money back for any overcharging, at least as they see it. My Amendment 78A is all about enforcement and giving teeth to tribunals’ decisions, where it has been determined that the service charges that the leaseholders have paid were not payable or were unreasonably incurred.
Various rules in Parliament have been passed in an attempt to regulate this behaviour of freeholders; again, I mean poor freeholders—the whole market is not like this. Often, these work only when leaseholders have the time, money and energy to enforce them at tribunal, which then is not always guaranteed when residents are up against armies of layers. Freeholders often hold many freeholds and have a big financial backing behind them and can just tire out leaseholders—they can work them into the ground and threaten them with forfeiture, for instance, should something go wrong. The Secretary of State was right to say that we need to put the squeeze on freeholders, but that means making freeholders actually fear leaseholders bringing cases against them at tribunal.
In my Second Reading speech, I mentioned that research from Hamptons has shown that leaseholders paid £7.6 billion in service charges. Many of those service charges were overcharge, and we want to create a situation where leaseholders can fight back. The annual service charge for flats in England and Wales has increased by 8.4% since the beginning quarter of 2023. Around 270,000 leaseholders are now paying more than £5,000 a year in service charges, which could quickly become a second mortgage for many leaseholders.
My Amendment 78A seeks to amend the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 regime for service charge disputes to try to make service charge tribunals against freeholders more serious by taking three important steps. One is by providing an opt-out. At the moment, leaseholders have to sign up for a case to benefit. Even if the tribunal determines that they have been overcharged, unless they have signed up their neighbour may receive a payment but they will not because they did not sign up. That is unfair in modern life: you could be elderly; you could have children; you could just be away when all these things are going on. Your neighbour would receive benefit and you would not, even though you would also have overpaid. That is why we need an opt-out, not an opt-in, to make it more serious.
Secondly, after a successful Section 27A challenge by any leaseholder in a block, the freeholder would be under a duty to account to all leaseholders within a two-month period of the decision being handed down. This means that any money overpaid would have to be paid back within two months, because leaseholders—many of them owning a place for the first time, many of them young people, many of them elderly people on fixed incomes—have paid out this money which they often could not afford. They should get it back in a speedy fashion.
Thirdly, there should be interest after a two-month period if the freeholder has not paid back money owed to the leaseholders. This is to give the sanction some bite and to make sure that a freeholder does not just wait out hapless leaseholders because they have all the power and the financial power.
I would like to see some more action in this Bill to deter and punish bad behaviour by freeholders and ensure that leaseholders can swiftly get their money back where overcharging has been determined by a tribunal. My Amendment 78A gets us closer to that position.
My Lords, Amendment 78 is about one part of service charges that sometimes gets neglected: the lack of consultation about major works that remain uncapped, opaque and difficult to challenge. This mainly affects those who have brought homes where the landlord or freeholder is a council. The amendment is also about the failed attempts by the law to help them in the past and whether we can use the Bill to rectify that.
In Committee last Wednesday it was implied that leaseholders are mainly wealthy home owners of luxury flats. These leaseholders deserve fair treatment, however wealthy they are, and they should not be ripped off, but many leaseholders do not fall into that category, with 49% of leaseholders being first-time buyers. We also have right-to-buy leaseholders who bought their own council homes, and leaseholders who bought former council homes because they were cheaper and therefore home ownership was within their grasp, rather than them being priced out of the market. I declare an interest as one of those people.
Leaseholders living in former council homes now face enormous refurbishment bills of tens of thousands of pounds, despite a legal cap being introduced 10 years ago, which is being circumvented by local authorities. The reason for major works is no doubt exacerbated by years of weak investment and cuts. Social housing estates do need to be maintained, and I understand that councils have difficulty doing that. However, neglect builds up and leaseholders end up being the ones who pay the price. The bill for entire blocks has been divided between the local authority and individual leaseholders because council tenants cannot be charged. Therefore, we end up with situations such as that of George and Alma, a couple who were suddenly landed with a £45,000 bill for windows in the roof of the estate, which do not even affect them, making them sick with worry. As has already been discussed, the disrepair that accumulates on estates ends up not just increasing service charges but coming as one large bill. George said, “I pay a service charge and I have not seen any work being done on a yearly basis—then suddenly we get this big bill”.
I am a Haringey leaseholder of a maisonette. I noted one extreme case that came to light during lockdown, when 76 leaseholders in Wood Green were told to find between £56,000 and £118,000 to cover Haringey repairs and improvements. One young woman, when she bought her maisonette in 2015, was told that major works planned would cost £15,000. Instead, after losing her job because of lockdown, she ended up with a bill of £110,000. Another couple, when buying their property, were given an estimated bill for major works of £12,500. Mid-completing buying their house, that had swelled to £25,000 with no explanation whatsoever for the increase, and they could not find out why. There was then stalling for five years, again with no explanation. Haringey then added in some other major works—roofs, windows and door replacements—so now the final bill is a whopping £108,450. To quote them, “We will be ruined”. The bill will be a third of what they paid for their home.
This is happening all over London, and councils’ responses have been complacent. Lambeth Council said: “We appreciate that major works can place a financial burden on leaseholders, which is why we offer a number of repayment options”. However, even those which break it down over five years, for example, which is one of the options available, can almost double some people’s mortgage, and this is even beyond increasing service charges.
At Second Reading, I said that leaseholders should not be expected to become serial litigators in the same manner that the sub-postmasters had to in order to get some justice for themselves. We should seek to increase the rights of leaseholders, not strip them of existing rights and protections.
My amendment seeks to preserve the criminal sanctions against landlords withholding critical information about service charges. The Bill in its current form does away with these sanctions, which function as a backstop for the current scheme of service charge accountability. The Bill instead introduces a new scheme of service charge regulation, superior in many respects but lacking the critical ability for leaseholders to prosecute landlords who refuse to provide evidence that the services they have charged for were actually delivered.
Currently, under Section 25 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, leaseholders have the right to pursue a private prosecution against their landlord if their request for service charge accounts or receipts has been refused or the landlord denies them the ability to inspect and copy the relevant documents. Without criminal sanctions, landlords will comply with the law only if it suits their financial interests to do so. A Bill capped at £5,000 of damages will not deter many and may mean that leaseholders now have to spend time and effort proving how much money they have lost.
I am not precious about this amendment, but I want to probe the Government on this and urge them to ensure that leaseholders will continue to have the right to bring private prosecutions against perpetually bad landlords under this legislation. I have mentioned Section 25 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 a few times; it criminalises breaches of Sections 21, 22 and 23 of the same Act. These Sections 21, 22 and 23 are repealed by the present Bill, so my amendment would make a practical difference only until these repeals were brought into force.
I thank my noble friend Lord Bailey of Paddington for Amendment 76A, which seeks to retain the existing enforcement provisions concerning a landlord’s failure to provide information to leaseholders. I am grateful to other noble Lords who took part in this very brief discussion.
I fully agree with my noble friend that it is important to have effective enforcement measures in place where a landlord fails to provide relevant information to leaseholders. The existing measures, including the statutory offence under existing Section 25 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, have historically proven to be ineffective. Local housing authorities, as the enforcement body, are reluctant to bring prosecutions against landlords, and the cost and complexity of doing so are a significant barrier to leaseholders bringing a private prosecution. That is why we are omitting Section 25 and replacing it with the more effective and proportionate proposals set out in Clause 56 of the Bill. Therefore, I am afraid that we cannot accept the amendment. Not only does it require—
In regard to the cost of leaseholders bringing a case, people are now using modern technology, such as crowdsourcing, to raise the funds to take on a landlord. When you have a persistently rogue landlord, this could be your last roll of the dice. It is not an entirely strong argument to talk about leaseholders not having the means; that is often the case, and what most of the discussion has been based on. For leaseholders in these very extreme cases—and they are extreme—this is a last resort, and that is why the word “backstop” was used, but people can club together to deal with these situations.
I am very grateful to my noble friend. I will address the rest of the issues, and hopefully I will pick up some the points he made. Like others, I am grateful for the passion with which the noble Lord speaks about this issue and his own experience of it.
I am afraid we cannot accept this amendment. Not only does it require us to return to the previous arrangements; I would respectfully say that it is not workable. This is because a local housing authority cannot take action against itself; they are one body. That said, I can assure my noble friend and others in the Chamber that there are very strong merits in his argument about the appropriate tribunal not being able to make an order for damages where the landlord is a non-compliant local authority. As has been said, it is not right that local authorities should be exempt from the same standards expected of other landlords. Both the department and the Minister are carefully considering this issue.
I will respond to a couple of points raised by noble Lords, including my noble friend. He raised the issue of damages; we believe that £5,000 strikes the right balance between a deterrent and an effective incentive. I believe it is higher than the existing provisions that a court can award on a summary conviction. The noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor and Lady Thornhill, asked about the hiatus, or interim, period; I assure noble Lords that it will not change until the new regime is ready. Therefore, with these reassurances, I ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.
A lot of the Bill relies on secondary legislation coming through at a later date, meaning that we must all wait for many of the details of individual policies and cannot fully scrutinise them now. Last week we heard from the Minister that the commencement will be in 2025-26. In January last year, the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, announced his intention to ban freeholder and managing agent insurance commissions—or “kickbacks”, as they are colloquially known—that fatten leaseholders’ insurance premiums and pad their service charges. He was right to do so.
In recent years, there has been a series of truly horrific stories about leasehold building insurance, including bribes, kickbacks and commissions galore. When the Financial Conduct Authority did its investigation into this recently, it found that broker remuneration had increased by nearly 40% in three years, with at least 80 million leaseholder-funded commissions going to other parties. Brokers passed on more than half the commission to the freeholder, or the managing agent in 39% of cases. Brokers could not provide any evidence to support the claim that those payments were fair value. The FCA says:
“The level of commission is high, with typical commissions of 30%-49%, and … up to 62%. We have also seen that remuneration is shared with the freeholder or property managing agent (PMA) in many cases, with 37-42% of commission being paid away”.
That is damning. The commissions are clearly excessive and totally out of kilter with other classes of business.
The total commission going to freeholders or managing agents can be as high as 60% of the cost of the premium paid by leaseholders. This comes back to my core problem with leasehold: the people paying the bills do not have control over those bills and lack the ability to fire the rip-off companies they have to deal with—unlike flat owners under different arrangements almost worldwide, who have far more power and control. As the FCA observed, policies are being
“selected on the basis of commission rather than product quality. There is a lack of pressure on freeholders, PMAs and insurance brokers to search for the policy that offers the best value-for-money or to switch to better-value policies which may benefit leaseholders. This is because they can recover costs from leaseholders. We have seen instances of freeholders, property managing agents and insurance brokers having commercial arrangements with particular insurers which benefit them but not leaseholders”.
That brings me to my concern. I am doing this on behalf of leaseholders countrywide and campaigning for insurance professionals who have a conscience. The crux of this matter is: are the Government not inadvertently entrenching commissions by rebadging them as “transparent fees” and having them disclosed?
I am no lawyer, but I understand that if a secret profit has been made, every penny is owed to the wronged party—the principal under the law of agency. If the Government were to force all the kickbacks to be disclosed, as the Bill proposes, would that not just weaken the position of leaseholders, because they would no longer be secret profits? Another point is that freeholders hold money on trust for leaseholders, so if they have made a secret profit they open themselves up to legal challenge on breach of fiduciary duty.
How will the Government decide the level at which the permitted insurance payment is set? How will that be set and who will be in charge? What will be the mechanism? Will it be someone’s will, or will we have an algorithm that does that? Is this not just a backdoor for freeholders to extract more money from hapless leaseholders?
Does the noble Lord wish to move his amendment?
I beg to move. Excuse me—I am dyslexic, and procedure is massively hard for me. One day I will get it all right—and all at the same time.
The problem is evident and not disputed, but the solutions are clearly debatable.
We support the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, as we share his concerns. The insurance scheme in the Bill, without the permitted insurance payment being set at something nominal such as £5 or £10 a year, could become another cost centre for freeholders. We know how difficult it is for freeholders, especially on larger developments, to get like-for-like quotes. Often, brokers will not even quote, which makes challenging at tribunal very difficult, especially when the freeholder claims that their fees are for works done and not pure commission. It is good for there to be a backstop in the insurance scheme in the Bill, so that brokers are fairly remunerated, while ensuring that other parties in the distribution chain, including freeholders, are banned from profiteering from the captive leaseholders who pay but do not get to choose the policy.
Amendment 82 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, and signed by my noble friend Lady Pinnock,
“would prohibit landlords from claiming litigation costs from tenants other than under limited circumstances determined by the Secretary of State”.
Clause 60 puts limits on the right of landlords to claim litigation costs from tenants. When the Bill was in the Commons, the Minister said that
“unjust litigation costs should not be incurred”—[Official Report, Commons, Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill Committee, 25/1/2024; col. 347.]
by leaseholders—and we agree—but the Bill as drafted does not go far enough in preventing that happening. There will be circumstances in which it is appropriate for leaseholders to bear those costs, but we believe that Amendment 82 makes provision for that. The presumption should be that the costs are not borne by the leaseholder, unless in circumstances specified by the Secretary of State.
My noble friend Lady Pinnock’s Amendment 80 would require the Financial Conduct Authority
“to report on the impact of the provisions in the bill around insurance costs in order to monitor progress on reducing costs passed on to leaseholders”.
I am pleased to say that the Law Society also supports the amendment. Rising insurance premiums have sent service charges soaring in the last few years, mostly due to the costs associated with remediation works following the tragedy of the Grenfell Tower fire. That means that even the leaseholders who can access funding to help them pay for vital works to their buildings are still paying the price to remedy a problem that they did not cause.
Clause 57 places a limitation on the ability of landlords to charge insurance costs to leaseholders. This is a very welcome step in the right direction. It is essential that this provision works as intended to protect leaseholders from extortionate costs. The Financial Conduct Authority’s report into insurance for multi-occupancy buildings, published in September 2022, found not only that premiums were rising, with mean prices increasing by 125% in the period from 2016 to 2021, but that the level of commission rates for brokers was
“an area of significant concern”,
with eye-watering rates of up to 60% being seen.
The FCA also found that brokers were sharing commission with the freeholder or the property management agent, meaning that they were unfairly profiting from leaseholders. Commission—and not cover or costs—was therefore the driving factor in the choice of policy. The provisions in the Bill to limit the ability of landlords to charge insurance costs to leaseholders, alongside the Bill’s increased transparency requirement, should—one hopes—go a long way to protect leaseholders. We also note that as of 1 January this year, the regulator will force insurance firms to act in leaseholders’ best interests and to treat them as a customer when designing products. They will be banned from recommending an insurance policy based on commission or remuneration level. It is clearly very early days, but we hope to see some improvement from that.
There is, of course, the argument that the Government should go further. A cap on service charges for leaseholds, especially at a fixed amount rather than as a percentage, has been suggested as a way to properly protect leaseholders from unreasonable costs. We would, therefore, want to place a requirement on the FCA, whose thorough report provided the impetus for these provisions, to assess whether it has had an impact in reducing costs for leaseholders and preventing freeholders and managing agents profiting off them. We hope that the provisions of the Bill will provide the necessary relief for leaseholders, who are clearly facing exorbitant costs. It will, however, be essential that the Government keep a close eye on the impact of Clause 57 and take action if it is not going far enough.
Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, does have some amendments in this group—I looked very worriedly at this point. On the surface, they appear to be about making the process simpler and easier, which is probably a good thing and worth consideration. I look forward to hearing what the noble Lord says.
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, for her Amendment 84, which seeks to ensure that potential property purchasers understand the ongoing obligations of a leasehold property they are thinking of purchasing. I share the noble Baroness’s concern that purchasers should know about service charges and ground rent before they move into their home. Speaking personally, I completely understand the stress and frustration when you receive a bill that you knew nothing about.
The National Trading Standards Estate and Letting Agency Team has developed guidance for property agents on what constitutes material information when marketing a property. This information should be included within property listings to meet their obligations under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. The guidance specifies that tenure and the length of the lease are material and therefore should be included in the property listing. Ongoing charges, such as service charges and ground rent, are also considered material, as they will impact on the decision to purchase. This means that purchasers get information on the lease and expected level of ongoing financial obligations when they see the property particulars, so before they have even viewed the property, let alone made an offer. In addition, the measures that we are including in this Bill to require leasehold sales information to be provided to potential sellers mean that conveyancers acting on behalf of sellers will be able to quickly get the detailed information they need to provide to potential purchasers. This would include information about service charges and ground rent, as well as other information to help a purchaser make a decision, such as previous accounts.
The Government support significant provision of advice for leaseholders through the Leasehold Advisory Service, an arm’s-length body providing free, high-quality advice to leaseholders and other tenures by legally trained advisers. The Government have also published a How to Lease guide aimed at those thinking of purchasing a leasehold property, to help them to understand their rights and responsibilities, providing suggested questions to ask and suggesting how to get help if things go wrong. This guide will be updated to reflect the provisions in this Bill.
Is my noble friend the Minister comfortable that that information is freely distributed? It would take only a very cursory conversation with leaseholders to find out that they know nothing of most of leasehold law—anything from ground rent to the fact that your service charge can be changed from underneath you. That means that the information that is there has clearly not been absorbed. What attempt will be made to make that information universal? People are talking about changing what leasehold is called, but this is the first time that I have heard that. I think it is a good idea—but all that information is good for nought if people are not compulsorily seeing it before they sign to buy the property.
My noble friend asks for clarity. I can completely understand some of the circumstances that people face; that is something on which we share the concerns of the noble Baroness in what she is trying to do, and it is something that we will continue to look at—ways of ensuring that people are aware of the information when they are purchasing a property. We will continue to look forward to engaging with all noble Lords in this House. With that reassurance in mind, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, will agree with me that this proposed new clause is not necessary, and I respectfully ask that it is withdrawn.
(4 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, and I have added my name to his amendments.
There is a great deal that I could say on this issue but, since I said most of it in the debate on the last group, I shall keep my remarks fairly short. I can add a little personal knowledge of one charity to which the right reverend Prelate refers, because it is very Kensington-based. I have no connection with it and no interest to declare—but Campden Charities was started in the 17th century by Count Campden, a devout Puritan. When he died, he left a charitable endowment, naturally in the shape of land that he owned, for the benefit of the poor youth of Kensington. His widow, when she died, did likewise with her property—hence the plural. It is Campden Charities: technically, they are two separate endowments, but they are run as one. They own land in Kensington to this day from which they have an income, and they continue to support the poor youth of Kensington—and there are poor youths in Kensington—giving them grants to allow them to continue their education and apprenticeships, and work of that sort. Their income is now going to be, to some extent by this measure, reduced and expropriated.
As I say, apparently as Conservatives we feel no embarrassment in doing this—we feel no constraint on us. We are too tender and too ginger to feel that we can expropriate the assets of ill-doers such as Putin’s friends—they are sacrosanct. But those who do good, such as charities, can have their money taken away with very little debate and handed to leaseholders who may or may not be poor and meritorious. Who knows? What is it next, I wonder, for my noble friends on the Front Bench? Shall we be stealing the widow’s mite from the poor box?
My Lords, I want to pay tribute to Campden Charities, as I am a beneficiary of the activities of Campden Charities. I came from a community where the likelihood of one of us appearing in the Lords was next to zero, and Campden Charities is an important part of my arrival in your Lordships’ House. I point out that removing the ability of charities countrywide to provide such services would be devastating to some of the poorest communities in this country. Again, I stand here as a witness to the effectiveness of some of the work that they do.
My Lords, it is not on the list but I did put my name to this amendment and I am very keen to support the right reverend Prelate. Much of the debate we have had so far this afternoon seems to be focused on the rich, greedy landlords versus the impoverished tenants. If we strip this away from the debate and focus on these landlords, those addressed in this amendment are charities; they do good. They are not bad actors. Their managing agents, in the case of their property investments, are not bad actors. They are responsible to the Church and they thoroughly deserve this exemption, as we were reminded very eloquently in the excellent few words of the previous speech. I proudly add my name to the amendment.
(4 months ago)
Lords ChamberI thank the noble Lord for expanding on that.
It would be interesting to hear from the Minister whether there are any statistics regarding freeholders using the forfeiture system to address not the issues that are normally referenced—failure to pay ground rent or an accumulation of three years or more of debt—but breaches of the lease. It would be helpful to understand all that.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, has said, if the payment in lieu is more than £350, or is outstanding for more than three years, the freeholder is entitled to claim repossession—and then all the equity in the property is lost, of course. When I first looked at this, I could not see how it could possibly be right. I remember that, at Second Reading—I was just trying to find it in Hansard—the Minister said that the Government were considering bringing forward an amendment to address this issue. It is unfortunate that that has not been forthcoming in the time that has elapsed between Second Reading and Committee. Perhaps in her reply, the Minister can say whether the Government intend to bring an amendment on Report. It would help us resolve what is, on the face of it, a complete injustice. It would be sufficient if the Minister said that that is going to happen, and maybe those of us who have signed the amendments could have a meeting with her to discuss it, if necessary.
I support this amendment. Although in his intervention the noble Lord talked about how to control peoples’ behaviour when they have misbehaved and breached their lease, it should be taken into account that the threat of forfeiture is held over leaseholders, in a very draconian fashion, for the smallest infraction. More importantly, it is used to enforce such things as the flagrant and inequitable boosting of service charges. If you are in dispute in this situation, you are told you will end up having to pay court fees. You are told that, if you do not pay—
To clarify, I said specifically that people should not have their leases forfeited as a result of rent arrears. The threat of forfeiture can ensure that lease compliance occurs. If you remove the threat of forfeiture, how do you achieve compliance with other terms of the lease?
There are ways and means within our court system to reclaim any money that may be owed to the freeholder for service charges, ground rent and so on. Let us be very clear that forfeiture is used as a tool to threaten, bully and cajole leaseholders into compliance. When your freeholder invents a new reason as to why you have to pay more, you are warned that, if you do not do so, you could be taken to court for forfeiture. You are then told by the system that, if you do pay more, it is seen as agreeing with the bill that was presented to you.
I am not talking about freeholders taking action against other leaseholders; I am talking about how one leaseholder may want to enforce a lease against another leaseholder. In that case, you are saying that they would have to go to the High Court to enforce the lease, and that is a very lengthy and protracted process. I am not talking about the relationship with the freeholder or indebtedness; I am talking about how to enforce the lease between leaseholders, and I gave the example of Airbnb using a block of flats.
It would be extraordinary, though possible, if fellow leaseholders could invoke forfeiture but the freeholder could not. That would be incredible, and I am sure it would have all its own problems.
The point remains that, if you keep some kind of forfeiture, freeholders will want to keep hold of that power, because it is exactly that: an unfettered, threatening power, which leaseholders speak about as though it is mythical, like a dragon that will burn you if you stand up to the freeholder. Words fail me when I try to describe how forfeiture must go. We have had many conversations in which the word “feudal” has been bandied about. This is one occasion where it has real meaning. Forfeiture should and must go.
My Lords, first, I declare a number of interests to the House. I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, the chair of the Heart of Medway Housing Association, a non-executive director at MHS Homes Group, and a leaseholder.
Before the Bill arrived, it promised a lot. As it stands it is doing much less than that, so in a sense it is a fairly timid Bill. However, some of the things it does are actually very useful. I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage on forfeiture; it needs to be abolished. I have also listened to the noble Lords, Lord Truscott and Lord Bailey, and both make very valid points. The Government should listen and bring an amendment that addresses the points they made. That is not impossible, as far as I can see; it is absolutely right that there should be some remedy to deal with this.
Equally, we cannot have people being bullied into paying the service charge or ground rent; that it totally wrong. There must be remedies to deal with those things: if someone is owed money, they should get it, but forfeiture—losing their entire asset—is ridiculous. I hope that, on both points, which are extremely valid, the Government say to us that they hear what people are saying and that they will look at this issue and come back with amendments.
I want to ensure that people can enjoy their property without being annoyed by parties, noise and other trouble, and that there is a remedy to enforce that if need be. Equally, if someone has a freeholder coming after them, they could actually lose their property, or, worse, the freeholder could use their service charge or ground rent to take them to court. We need to deal with all these things.
I hope that, at the end of what will probably be a fairly short debate, the Government will recognise that there is a problem here and will help us by bringing back an amendment to deal with these issues; or, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, that they will get people together around the table to try to sort this out. The Bill is not doing much, but this is something very positive it could do.
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for her amendments in this group, which seek to remove forfeiture from the leasehold and freehold estate.
Amendment 55 seeks to address one of the ways in which leasehold law is tilted in favour of landlords. I know that noble Lords from all sides of the House are sympathetic to this intention, as are Members from the other place, where this same clause has already been debated.
Forfeiture is widely recognised as a draconian and unfair measure which is open to abuse. The main objection to the current law is that, should the landlord forfeit the lease and go on to sell the property, this allows them to make a large windfall gain at the expense of the leaseholder, who loses everything. Abolishing forfeiture would reduce the risk to the leaseholder of losing their home and would prevent abuses.
Abolishing forfeiture without replacing it with an alternative enforcement mechanism would mean that landlords would have recourse only to ordinary civil debt recovery and injunction proceedings, which, as we have heard, can be lengthy and are not always effective. In the absence of forfeiture or an alternative, there is a danger that a greater number of leaseholders may refuse to pay their fair share of the cost of maintaining their block or estate, and we have to take this all into account.
Noble Lords asked how many cases there are. We do not have the exact number, but stakeholders give us estimates of between 90 and 120 cases per year. It is not a big issue, but it is a very important one for those people.
The number of cases will not indicate the use of forfeiture, because forfeiture is wielded as a fiery dragon. Leaseholders speak about it as the dog that bites. The number of cases may be small, but I would argue that the use of forfeiture is probably far greater.
I have said that it is not the right way of doing it, and we want a different way. That is exactly what the Government are looking at.
We have to be clear that the upkeep and safety of buildings is also paramount. Landlords, be they third parties or resident management companies, need effective mechanisms for securing prompt payment to ensure that those properties are insured and maintained in the interests of everybody else in the block.
We recognise that there is the potential for significant inequity at hand where a landlord stands to gain a windfall when a lease is forfeited. However, I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and the Committee that the Government have been listening to calls for us to act. The Government continue to work through the detail and we will report to the House shortly with more information. In the meantime, I welcome members of the Committee sharing their views on this matter, which the Government will reflect on when formulating their position.
In addition, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for Amendment 95, which seeks to abolish Section 121 of the Law of Property Act 1925 in respect of all rent charges. Let me be clear: the Government are sympathetic to the issue raised by the noble Baroness. We recognise that forfeiture is an extreme measure and should be used only as a last resort. Any changes will require careful consideration of the rights and responsibilities of all interested parties.
Clause 111 already seeks to abolish forfeiture for income-supporting rent charges, which are still in existence, even though the creation of new charges of this nature has been banned since 1977. However, some types of rent charges may still be created, including estate rent charges, which are used for the provision of services on managed estates.
Where they are created, estate management companies need a means to recover sums owed to them. Failure to do so means that costs may fall on other home owners, or the upkeep of an estate will worsen, to the detriment of everyone living on that estate. The problem may be particularly acute for resident-led management companies which do not have alternative sources of funding.
It is important that we fully understand any unintended consequences. This is an issue that we are carefully considering. I hope that, with those assurances, the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.
My Lords, it is a privilege to speak after the noble Baroness. I will come to answering her question. To give a blunt answer, I have not undertaken the consultation that she refers to, but I will explain when I get to that part of my introduction why I think that this stands on its own.
As I said at Second Reading, I strongly support those parts of the Bill which facilitate the exercise of the right to manage on the part of leaseholders in residential blocks. There are several measures in the Bill which do that. The right to manage is, in some ways, the crucial key to unlocking the levels of dissatisfaction which some leaseholders have with the way in which their blocks are managed. I strongly support it.
There is a particular issue which the Bill does not address. As a consequence of my general support for this—contrary to my remarks in earlier debates— I hope that the Government will give me a softer and more welcoming answer. As a result of my proposal, perhaps my noble friend on the Front Bench will even give me one of those answers which invites me to attend a meeting. In fact, I have had a meeting with my noble friend about this, though she may not recall it. We met last summer to discuss this issue with officials, and she was very sympathetic to it. That gives me additional reasons for thinking that this might be a welcome amendment.
The amendment arises from a particular case, but it raises questions of general importance. I shall refer to the case later, but I want to address the question of general importance first. When the right to manage was introduced through the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, certain exceptions were placed on it. The Government intend to ease some of those restrictions, and I welcome that. One restriction was that the right to manage did not apply where the landlord of the building was a local housing authority.
I have tabled two alternative amendments—this is my point about consultation. Both amendments would reverse that assumption. One would eliminate it entirely. It would bring within the ambit of right to manage all blocks where the local housing authority was the landlord, including those within the housing revenue account. The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, said that this could raise certain difficulties in cases where a block had so many long lease holders that it could exercise the right to manage but would be left with certain local authority tenants in the block. I have experience of local government, as does the noble Baroness. I recognise that she is correct in saying that there might be certain sensitivities about this. I think it could be managed. Indeed, it would be liberating for all the tenants of the block in many ways. The local authority tenants would also have a say in the management of the block. They would not be excluded from it simply because they were local authority tenants.
Recognising that this is a slightly daring proposition, I have suggested an alternative which would simply take out of the provision local housing authority-owned blocks where they were owned simply as an investment. I have left it vague as to whether that is a commercial investment or one held in the local authority’s pension fund. These are probing amendments. I should be happy to discuss these issues with my noble friend the Minister.
I come now to a particular case. There are blocks where local authorities have acquired property as an investment. Doing so immediately extinguishes the right of the long lease holders to exercise their right to manage—there are no local authority tenants. I think that is wrong. The case I am thinking of concerns a block acquired by a London local authority from a commercial property investment trust, bought at market value as an investment. The local authority, the new owner, was dissatisfied with the accounts inherited from the previous manager—it had their own manager for the block. As a result, it has not been able to put satisfactory accounts together for the last three years. As a consequence, it has not had the legal standing to issue invoices to its tenants for its service charges. It has been running the building’s operating costs out of the capital sums that had been set aside as a sinking fund to pay for future improvements to the building. It is all very unsatisfactory.
That is a classic situation in which long leaseholders would normally exercise the right to manage but, completely arbitrarily, are precluded from doing so. That is wrong. We should facilitate this.
At the very least, my noble friend should welcome my second amendment, Amendment 62, and say that where a local authority acquires a property for commercial purposes—not for the housing of its tenants but as an investment, either in its own name or as part of its pension fund—the right to manage would be restored. The financial interests of the local authority would be preserved, as they are under the current arrangements. It is simply that the right to manage the building would be taken over by the long leaseholders, as elsewhere, and they would manage it in just the same way as in all the other right-to-manage arrangements we are so much in favour of.
I will stop at that point because I have simply made my case, but this is a strange omission from the current arrangements, and one that we now have an opportunity to correct. I would be very happy to attend the meeting.
My Lords, I will speak to my Amendments 65A and 65B. The Government should be applauded for their ambitions as laid out in the Bill. Let us hope that we can achieve them all. I put on record that I am pleased with the Government’s direction of travel, because some of my interventions up until now may have seemed slightly belligerent, but can my noble friend the Minister provide some reassurance around the Government’s stated aim of a revolution in the right to manage? That would help to address what, for me, is at the heart of what I consider the leasehold scandal, which is really about control. Leaseholders in England and Wales are unique in the lack of control that they have. Worldwide, leaseholders and those with commonhold and many other types of tenure have much more control. I believe that is something the Bill can address, and the Government have to demonstrate that they want to deliver on it. Indeed, it was our own Secretary of State who said that he wants to see a revolution in the right to manage.
I put on record my colleagues Nickie Aiken and Barry Gardiner, who brought a very similar amendment in the other place. Amendment 65A seeks to ensure that leaseholders in mixed-use property who would otherwise qualify for the right to manage because 50% or more of the floorspace is residential, but because of a technicality—a boiler or an underground car park—are prevented from having that management given to them, still have that right. The current test means that you have to demonstrate that your building is self-contained or that the residential part is partly self-contained, but the layout of the building might suggest that it is not self-contained due to an underground car park or boiler room, when actually it is.
The Law Commission saw these two tests as too strict. It suggested that a third test could be set whereby, if it could be demonstrated that people are reasonably capable of managing the residential area fully independently, they should be given access to this power. As I have stated in most of the debate, the thing that most drives me is the potential for the abuse of service charging. Giving residents control over their assets is clearly the answer to that.
The amendment does not mean that leaseholders can take over the management of shops, hotels or commercial premises. That is not the idea of the amendment. The right to manage applies exclusively to the residential parts, such as corridors and lift lobbies —parts of the building used only by residents. The amendment does not seek to change that position.
At Second Reading, I made the point that even the leading freeholder lobby group pointed out that free- holders own, at best, only 2.5% of the capital interest in the buildings they have the freehold of. That leads me to my other amendment, Amendment 65B. We must lower the threshold at which a group of people can take over the management of that lease. It is currently at 50%. I suggest that it should be at around 35%—again, to help the Government achieve their stated aim of a revolution in right to manage.
I have heard what my noble friend the Minister has had to say and I am minded to do as she asks—if I could get one of those meetings that she has to offer. I am sure then that we could come to an accommodation.
I will be very happy to spend a week in here so that noble Lords can come in and out and speak to me as they like—and I would love to meet my noble friend to talk about this further. He talked also about transparency and it not being terribly necessary. The problem is that, if you do not have transparency, sometimes you do not know you are being ripped off, because you do not have the required information—so I think transparency is actually really important.
My Lords, it was not that I do not like transparency. I agree with my noble friend that transparency is very useful so you know whether you are being ripped off. I was making an appeal for the ability to intervene in the process of being ripped off. I have been on the other end of this situation, where people have quite happily told us what they are overcharging us for, but we had no mechanism to interfere in that. That is what I was more concerned with.
I thank my noble friend for that but, for the reasons I have put forward, I kindly ask him not to press his amendments.
(4 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, just before I move my amendment, I should say that I omitted to thank the Minister for her collaborative approach to the Bill in advance of it coming before the Committee. I now do so and rectify that omission. I also thank the Law Commission, as she did, and the many groups that have a leasehold interest and met us in recent weeks. I hope the Committee will forgive me for not mentioning that earlier on.
Amendment 12 requires the Secretary of State to publish a report outlining legislative options to provide leaseholders in flats with a share of the freehold. I shall resist the temptation to go over the ground again of why the Government did not include flats in their ban on new leases, although it would be helpful to know from the Minister what level of consideration was given to enacting the recommendations of the Law Commission in full in regard to this matter, particularly as it was the stated intention of the Secretary of State—that is what he wanted to do. There has been a commitment to this ban on leasehold at least since 2017. One would think that there has been plenty of time to get the work done. Indeed, the Law Commission has done much of the heavy lifting on what would be needed.
Our later amendments seek to determine the Government’s appetite to move in due course to a more widespread system of commonhold as the default tenure. The successful adoption and implementation of this in other jurisdictions has been well debated and discussed in your Lordships’ House. It is certainly the clear intent of my party to move as quickly as possible to that tenure. However, that would be a policy decision, as distinct from the implementation of the Law Commission’s recommendations, and would necessarily have to follow the legal scheme that those recommendations would introduce. As that is not proposed in the Bill but follows the Secretary of State’s intent to do away with the archaic system of leasehold altogether, there is a strong case to make a start with a transitional regime.
The introduction of a mandatory share of freehold in all new blocks of flats, as proposed in our amendment and that of the noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, alongside the requirement to establish and operate an RMC—a right to manage company—with each leaseholder given a share, would be a sensible staging post on a path towards a commonhold future. It would make conversion to commonhold at a later date a far simpler process. We urge the Government to accept these amendments as they would ensure that we have started on the path to confining leasehold to the dustbin of history, which is where we believe it belongs, and would make it clear that the Bill is not ruling in one set of homes and home owners to the ban and ruling out another. That other is affecting by far the greatest number of leaseholders, with 70% of leaseholders occupying flats. To be clear, this is not an alternative to leasehold. If such a measure were brought into force, any leaseholder resident in a new block of flats would own both the lease and a share of the freehold. It would ensure, in effect, that all new blocks of flats were collectively enfranchised by default, without the need for leaseholders in them to go through the process of acquiring the freehold.
The advantage of having a default share in the freehold is that it would give the leaseholder a direct say on what happens in their building, as is the case with those who have already been collectively enfranchised. It would also provide additional valuable rights, such as the right to a long lease extension on the basis of a peppercorn rent; in other words, the rights that will be accorded to existing leaseholders but without the cost of paying a premium to the freeholder that is still required to exercise that modified right.
We know that flat owners having a share of the freehold can cause tensions; for example, in agreeing how to proceed on crucial decisions, such as whether to cover the cost of major works through service charges. That is why it is essential that proper management arrangements are in place as a matter of course, to reduce the likelihood of damaging disputes between neighbours. That is why we propose mandatory RMCs on new blocks of flats as a corollary to the new clause.
Labour is unequivocal about the fact that commonhold is a preferable tenure to leasehold, in that it gives the benefits of freehold ownership to the owners of flats without the burdensome shortcomings of leasehold ownership. As we have heard, the Law Commission made 121 recommendations on commonhold, designed to provide a legal scheme that would enable commonhold to work more flexibly, and in all contexts. It is vital that if commonhold is to be the default tenure, it is enacted fully and properly, with full account of the Law Commission recommendations.
We have not sought to persuade the Government to incorporate any subset of the Law Commission commonhold recommendations into the Bill, but we need to reform the legal regime for commonhold in one go. Labour is committed to doing so if the British people give us the opportunity to serve after the next general election. In the meantime, it would be good to give current leaseholders a share in the management of their properties. I beg to move.
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage. I do not want to rehearse the reasons why I think that a mandatory share of the freehold is necessary, in the way that the noble Baroness laid out. I want to speak more to the contact that I have had with so many different groups and individuals who feel that they are trapped in their leasehold.
The number one thing that comes up is, of course, service charge abuse. Which? did a study in 2011 which suggested that 700 million service charges had been overcharged. The market for that has grown now to 6.7 billion, so we can only assume that this overcharging has grown along with it.
The challenge becomes: how do we make this market fair? How do we make sure that these abuses are washed away? That is to give the people paying the bills control, and not to lock them into the monopoly that leaseholders are currently locked into. Ultimately, the answer would be commonhold, but while commonhold is not on the table, we need to look at a share of the freehold. It should be mandatory, and it should happen straightaway. The noble Baroness laid out very eloquently the benefits that this would give to leaseholders.
We must understand that leaseholders do not want a landlord; that is why they have left the private rented sector—to avoid landlords. These amendments should stand. They really give leaseholders what they want. I have tabled an amendment which asks the Government to retain the power to bring forward a share of the freehold on new flats. That is the most important thing going on here.
My Lords, we on these Benches far prefer a move to commonhold. The journey towards commonhold is a solution to the leasehold/freehold issue.
I understand why the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, and the noble Lord, Lord Bailey, have proposed a share of freehold as a route towards commonhold as being the ideal solution, as recommended by the detailed report from the Law Commission in 2020. However, it is only a small step, and it is an option that is already being exercised by some flat owners.
It seems to me that the disadvantage of share of freehold is that, in practice, it will be possible only for blocks of flats with a small number of units. Where there is a large number of units in a single block, it would be very difficult to have a share of freehold for some but not others. It will be interesting to hear what the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, think.
I reiterate that the Government remain absolutely committed to widespread take-up of commonhold for flats. We have reviewed the Law Commissioners’ recommendations to reinvigorate commonhold as a workable alternative to leasehold, and I can assure noble Lords that we will set out next steps in due course.
Amendment 15B from my noble friend Lord Bailey of Paddington would require mandatory share-of-freehold arrangements to be made for block of flats in instances where flats are subject to long leases or collective enfranchisement. I thank him for this amendment and for his interest in this specific instance. We are aware of the interest in this and appreciate the desire to ensure that more leaseholders can obtain control or ownership of their building. Although we understand the benefits that share-of-freehold arrangements can have over ordinary leasehold arrangements with third-party landlords, we are also conscious that mandating share-of-freehold sales on new builds would require a complex legal framework to be constructed and to accommodate the mandate. As I have said, we do not believe that mandating share of freehold would be a quick or easy fix for leaseholders. The Government consider that the best option, as I have also said before, is to continue to work towards the widespread use of commonhold in future, rather than mandating share of freehold.
My noble friend Lord Bailey of Paddington was particularly keen on service charges. The Government will bring forward, through this Bill, a number of measures to require landlords to provide further information to leaseholders on a very proactive basis and to increase the transparency of their service charges and administration charges, as well as providing more information to leaseholders on a reactive basis. Those measures include the introduction of a standardised service charge demand form to standardise the information that freeholders are required to provide to leaseholders. We will mandate the provision of an annual report that sets out key information of importance to leaseholders. We will compel landlords to provide more relevant information to leaseholders on request. We will ensure that service charge accounts are provided within six months of the end of the previous accounting period that they cover, regardless of the lease terms, and this will be subject to a number of exemptions. We will require freeholders to proactively disclose—
Can my noble friend the Minister let me know how many of the 121 recommendations that the Law Commission made around commonhold will be adopted?
All I can say to my noble friend is that that is exactly what the Government are working on and that further details will come forward in due course.
A number of things in this Bill will affect the transparency and accountability of freeholders to leaseholders, particularly on service charges, which is the one thing that my noble friend brought up. For these reasons, I hope that the noble Baroness and my noble friend will not press their amendments.
My response to the noble Earl, Lord Devon, was a response on commonhold. My response to the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, was more about the fact that her amendment would just ban the sale of leasehold, which I suggest would give an uncertainty to the market.
Maybe my noble friend the Minister can give us some detail on the Government’s new-found support for commonhold. It would be easier not to move my amendment if I had some idea of the progress of the Government’s thinking, the timetable and how they intend to increase the adoption of commonhold, because that would make my amendment largely unnecessary.
I thank my noble friend for that. As I have said, we are working on it, we are working on further changes and we will come back in due course.
(5 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, with whom I have worked for many years in City Hall. This is my first time contributing to a debate, so if I get a few things wrong, please handle with care.
I have personal experience of being a leaseholder, and I know how the system can be abused to rob you of your dignity and deny you control of your own finances. Today I speak on behalf of millions of leaseholders who want to be released from this feudal system—I share enthusiasm for the term—that renders them “captive consumers”, according to the Competition and Markets Authority.
This is about whether or not we are a property-owning democracy. In 2019, some 13.9 million people voted for a Conservative manifesto that pledged leasehold reform. A further 10 million people voted for a Labour party that promised the same. Since 1966, all parties have promised leasehold and commonhold reform in election manifestos. Once we understand how important this has been to most people in this country, it is astonishing that we have not yet been able to deliver the changes that many, if not all, leaseholders want.
Freeholders have no incentive to get the best financial value for upkeep, insurance or repairs, because they are not picking up the tab. This arrangement is ripe for abuse. Some 95% of flats are leasehold; this legal structure is a forced condition of sale for an increasing number of first-time buyers and elderly downsizers.
Many people in the leasehold world propagate a number of myths to make sure that we continue to hold on to this old-fashioned and—I will say it again—feudal regime. They say that leasehold reform is an affront to property rights, but leaseholders have already paid a premium for their home. According to a leading freehold lobby group, the Residential Freehold Association, professional freeholders typically own only a very small economic interest, defined as just 2.5% of the capital involved in most cases. The association says freehold reform is unprecedented abuse of existing contracts. Freehold lobby groups are ignoring all the times in the past when Parliament has stepped in to rebalance rights and obligations on property for the greater good. This is not a recent leaseholder thing; there are laws dating back to the 19th century that have sought to bring greater equality to existing contracts. Indeed, in the 1980s and 1990s, Margaret Thatcher and John Major gave flat leaseholders the right to acquire their freehold.
Leasehold reform removes professional landlords and puts a burden of management on residents who do not have the time or skill to take care. This is simply a straw man to prevent bill-paying leaseholders taking rightful control of their home, their money and their lives. I am a Londoner and know the valuable role that the great estates play, not only serving leaseholders but the wider community, in placemaking.
However, let us not pretend that all freeholders are benevolent actors or high-performing service providers, such as Cadogan Estates, the de Walden Estate or even the Canary Wharf Group. Your average freeholder appoints a managing agent who does the day-to-day management. That agent could easily be appointed by leaseholders, as flat owners already do in many places across the world. It has already been said in this debate that a property is best managed by those who live there and know what is going on. We could concentrate on some of the bad behaviours by freeholders, such as artificially inflated and undocumented service charges, major works projects that are handed to a friendly contractor and then billed at double, sometimes triple, the going rate when you get a second opinion on what the cost should really be. We have some of the highest housing costs in the whole of Europe, and I submit that leasehold is part of the problem. Last year, Hamptons found that leaseholders in England’s flats were paying a punishing £7.6 billion in service charges, which had jumped 50% in five years.
There are many parts of the Bill that should be commended and that I wholeheartedly back, and I have heard many other noble Lords back the measures in it. However, there are some things on which we need to go further. I personally think the ultimate solution is commonhold, and it is a shame that it is not being proposed here.
Things like 990-year leases as an extension as a norm are of course a good measure. Stopping the punitive legal costs regime, which allows freeholders to dump all their legal and professional costs on to leaseholders whether they win or lose a case, feels like feudalism to me—so I will use that word again.
All of these points lead to the question: how do we beef up the Bill? The Bill, in my opinion, does not go far enough in liberating leaseholders. For those who think the provision of information will deal with the abusive practices, I say: think again. The Government are basically saying to leaseholders, “You must become serial litigators, you will have to take on the big guys” —in the same way that the sub-postmasters had to take on the Post Office. As Conservatives, we should be fighting any unchallenged power anywhere in our system. We must always support the little man. The best version of Conservatism is supporting the little man to take care of his own affairs, and that has to be done.
For me personally, the most egregious thing is forfeiture. This is a gangster-like power, routinely used to abuse and extort money from hapless leaseholders under the threat of losing their home and all of their equity. There is no doubt that, even though there are only a few cases of this every year, just the idea that it can be done is terror enough. I come from a group of people for whom buying your own home is freedom, and that freedom is curtailed by the mere existence of forfeiture.
I could go on at length about all of the things that should be added to the Bill, but I will say this: we must turbocharge the right to manage and enfranchisement. More needs to be said about that, and I personally will be tabling amendments to make sure that it is done.
To conclude, to accept these few amendments, and many of the amendments that have been talked about in the House today, will make the Bill what has been promised. The Tony Blair Government promised to do this and did not. This Government can do it and fulfil something that the people of this country deeply need to happen. I say again: are we a freedom-loving, property-owning democracy or not? The passage of the Bill and the provisions it actually brings into law will make the difference in that statement.