Armed Forces: Medical Services

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trefgarne]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the respective numerical strengths of the medical services of the Royal Navy, Army and the Royal Air Force, and what proportion of those personnel are reservists.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in offering sincere condolences to the family and friends of Captain Walter Barrie, 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland, who was killed on operations in Afghanistan recently. My thoughts are also with the wounded, and I pay tribute to the courage and fortitude in which they face their rehabilitation.

On the Question, in April this year the numerical strength of the naval medical service was 1,650, of whom 60—just under 4%—were reservists. The strength of the army medical service was 8,040, of which 2,840—35%—were reservists, and the strength of the Royal Air Force medical service was 2,120, of which 190—9%—were reservists. Members of all three medical services, regular and reserve, are making extraordinary contributions to our medical capability in Afghanistan, and I pay tribute to them.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that helpful reply. If it is the policy—which I believe it is, and I support it—to increase the use of reservists in the medical services of our three Armed Forces, it is important that we have a good supply of experienced and trained medical personnel, particularly from the National Health Service. Is the Minister satisfied that the National Health Service, which itself is pressed in many areas, will be able to supply the number of personnel that will be required in future years, and that no unnecessary restrictions will be placed in their way?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that we will need a good supply of reservists in future. NHS employees are free to join the reserves without any interference from their employer. If they come from a trust that does not have reserve-friendly HR policies—and these trusts are very rare—they can still join the reserves, but in the worst case they may have to take leave to train. We recognise, as did the previous Government, that my noble friend highlights a serious problem. The issue is being addressed by the reserves consultation document. We are consulting as widely as possible to ensure that we have the right relationship with employers and reservists to sustain these changes in future. We need to understand what difficulties employers face in releasing their staff and to do our best to mitigate them.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, we, too, offer our sincere condolences to the family and friends of Captain Walter Barrie. His death is another all-too-frequent reminder of the enormous sacrifices still being made by members of our Armed Forces in the service of our country.

The report of the public inquiry into the death of Iraqi civilian Baha Mousa found that military guidance on key ethical questions was not provided to regimental medical officers at the time. Is the Minister now satisfied that if there were to be an increase in the proportion of medical personnel who were reservists, appropriate guidance would always be given to them prior to deployment, and that they would be as able as regular medical officers to resist any pressures to prioritise their obligations or loyalties to the military over their ethical duties to patients? Further, will the medical services available to members of the Reserve Forces post-deployment be the same as the medical services available to members of the Regular Forces post-deployment?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, in answer to the noble Lord’s first question, I am pretty certain that I can give him that assurance. Like a number of noble Lords, I have been to Afghanistan and seen the hospital at Camp Bastion. I talked to a number of reservists. They work to an incredibly high standard. The NHS is very grateful for what its personnel pick up there and are able to take back to their respective trusts.

[Lord Ribeiro]

My Lords, will the Minister explain to the House how the expertise of the Defence Medical Services in Afghanistan, many of whom are reservists, can be maintained and used to the benefit of the NHS when the drawdown occurs in 2014?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My noble friend asks a very important question. I know that he was out in Afghanistan last year and saw the very good work that our regular and reservist medics do there. They have saved a lot of lives. There are two possible answers to my noble friend’s question: first, sharing experience through teaching in training in trauma centres and, secondly, clinical placements with coalition partners in areas of conflict.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, from these Benches I express condolences at the losses referred to by the Minister. What work are the Government doing to examine the common features of the forces’ medical services so that we may stretch resources further by removing unnecessary duplication, perhaps in areas such as procurement or training?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, several initiatives are under way to remove duplication by the single services’ medical services. The first, scheduled to be delivered on 1 April next year, is the new defence primary healthcare project. The current Royal Navy, Army and Air Force primary healthcare systems will start to combine to form defence primary healthcare under the command of a two-star medical officer. The aim is to develop and create an organisation made up of Royal Navy, Army, Royal Air Force and civilian medical personnel working jointly to benefit all the patients they serve, to safeguard the quality of healthcare for military personnel, their dependents and entitled civilians, and to maximise the forces’ generation capabilities.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I agree with the Minister about the huge pride we have in our medical forces across the board. Not only are they at the cutting edge of skills to look after people who, very sadly, have suffered major injuries, but they have also shown immense bravery. Indeed, two women who are probably about half my height have managed to win Military Crosses in the past three years in looking after people for whom they were responsible. We should feel a huge debt of gratitude and pride in them all for that. We also have an amazing centre of skill at Birmingham and at Headley Court in terms of people recovering. Will the Minister tell us what will happen if Scotland separates? Bearing in mind the complexity of how this works, it will be extremely difficult. How will that work out?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord in the first part of his question. I have seen a number of these reservists and regulars several times in the hospital at Camp Bastion. I am in awe of what they do and the lives they save—it is amazing work. In answer to the noble Lord’s second question, we do not envisage that this is going to happen.

Future Reserves 2020

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I should like to repeat the Statement made in the other place.

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to make a Statement on the Government’s consultation on Reserve Forces.

On the 5 July this year, I announced to the House my intention to publish a consultation paper setting out our detailed proposals for the future of the Reserve Forces, in response to the recommendations of the Future Reserves 2020 commission. This Green Paper, which I am publishing today, marks the beginning of a formal consultation period and a significant step forward in our plans to build the reserves of the future.

Reserve Forces play a vital role in delivering Britain's defence capability. Over 25,000 reservists have deployed on operations overseas in the past 10 years, and more than 2,000 deployed in support of the Olympic Games this summer. Sadly, 29 of them have paid the ultimate price while on operational service over this period and I know that the whole House will want to join me in saluting their sacrifice.

As well as delivering a range of combat capabilities, reservists have provided numerous specialist functions—from nuclear, biological and chemical protection in Iraq, to deployed medical support, saving the lives of our injured troops in Afghanistan. Whether it is at home or abroad, we should be proud of the dedication, determination and courage with which so many of our reservists serve this country.

Last year, the Future Reserves 2020 commission reported that, in spite of this service and sacrifice, our reserves, particularly the Territorial Army, were in decline; their numbers were getting smaller; the full range of their capabilities was not being used—and they were not being used in a cost-effective manner. In the Territorial Army, we still have major units configured as they were when the task was to provide mass reinforcements to counter a Cold War-era Soviet threat and we remain unable to mobilise reserves to assist our Regular Forces on their vital standing tasks, such as the defence of the Falkland Islands. The commission found that these deficiencies, when taken together, were contributing to an erosion of the effectiveness of the reserves and of the links between our Armed Forces and wider society. We cannot allow this to continue.

The 2010 strategic defence and security review called for a transformation of our Armed Forces to meet the new security challenges and threats of the 21st century while addressing the deficit in the defence budget. In Future Force 2020, we are building an adaptable whole force to meet those challenges and threats with our Army, air force, maritime and marine reserves at the heart of that force. The reserves of the future will be integral to, and fully integrated with, our Regular Forces, capable of being deployed as formed sub-units and units, as well as continuing to deliver individual augmentees, together providing an agile, high-tech, capability, able to defend our country, project power abroad and respond to diverse contingencies.

Historically, mobilisation of the reserves has often been seen as indicative of an emerging large-scale crisis for which the numbers of Regular Forces would be insufficient, a view reinforced by the current legislative framework, under which reservists cannot be mobilised to support standing military tasks. But in the future, as an integrated element of our Armed Forces, the reserves will be a part of almost every type of operation that our Armed Forces conduct, whether its in combat, capacity-building or fulfilling more routine standing commitments. Indeed, some very specialist capabilities—such as cyber, media operations and medical capability—cannot cost-effectively be held in Regular Forces and we will rely upon the reserves to deliver them.

The routine delivery of the nation’s security will broaden from being the sole preserve of the standing Regular Forces into a responsibility that is shared, through the role of the reserves, much more widely across society. To deliver it, we are investing an additional £1.8 billion in our reserves over the next 10 years, enabling us to increase their size to a trained strength of approximately 35,000. For the first time in 20 years, our reserves will be on an upward, not a downward, trajectory. By 2018, we will have grown the trained strength of the Army reserve to 30,000, the maritime reserve to 3,100, and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force to 1,800.

Reserve units will be paired with, train with and achieve the same standards as their regular counterparts. They will use the same equipment, the same vehicles and wear the same uniforms as the regulars, and they will deploy routinely, together with Regular Forces, on major overseas exercises. This year alone, reserve units will conduct some 22 overseas exercises, with probably twice that number next year. Integrated regular/reserve overseas training exercises are being developed and will become routine. Already, the additional investment we have put in place is making a difference. As I saw for myself last night at the Royal Yeomanry TA centre in Fulham, Territorial Army units are already taking delivery of WMIK light reconnaissance vehicles, Bowman radios and new Regular Army uniforms. As by far the largest element of our reserves. these changes will be felt most keenly by the Army, and to reflect the significant change in the role of Army reservists, I propose that the name of the Territorial Army should change to become the “Army Reserve”. We will consult on that proposal.

Vital to delivering this transformation will be offering a new proposition to our reserves. If you make the commitment, turn up regularly to train and are prepared to deploy, in return we will make the commitment to equip, train and fund you properly. So in the future, we will give reservists much better defined, more fulfilling roles, properly resourced and with adequate training underpinned by a balanced package of remuneration and support for them and their families, much more closely aligned to the pay, allowances and welfare support provided to the regulars. In return, we will expect them to commit to required levels of training, to meet the same exacting standards as the Regular Forces and, crucially, to be available to deploy alongside them.

National emergencies apart, we will provide greater predictability about periods of liability for deployment for our reserves. That will mean, typically, a deployment of no more than six months in a five-year period for the Army reserves, although total mobilisation could be up to a year to cover operation-specific pre-deployment training and post-operation recuperation. This predictability will help those who serve our country and their families to plan their lives. It will also help employers of reservists to plan their workforce.

Crucially, to achieve our aims, we need to develop a new relationship with civilian employers. Too often in the past, this relationship has started only at the point at which reserves have been mobilised. This has got to change. It is vital that we create a much more open and collaborative relationship with employers: providing greater certainty about reservists’ liability for deployment, with advance warning of when their call-up liability period will be; giving confidence that the skills and aptitudes reservists develop in training and on deployments will be of benefit in their civilian careers; and recognising that the relationship will need to be tailored to the different types and size of employers.

I fully accept that it may be large public sector and private sector organisations that are best able to absorb and manage periods of employee absence. I am delighted that companies such as BT, the AA and BAE Systems have shown their support to our reserves and this consultation process. But it is also the case that, with the growth of statutory legal provisions and flexible working practices, employers of all sizes are more used to managing periods of absence. In a modern, dynamic economy increasing numbers do not pursue conventional careers, creating a sizeable pool of self-employed from which to recruit. I look forward, in the consultation process, to exploring further with businesses of all sizes how we could better recognise the support that they give to our Armed Forces—perhaps through a kitemark-style national recognition scheme for reserve-friendly employers or possibly through the use of targeted financial incentives for smaller employers.

Taken together, the proposals in the Green Paper point to a new strategic direction for our Reserve Forces. They are challenging and require the support of both reservists and employers to succeed but they are also deliverable. Reserve numbers in 2018 will still be less than half the size of the Territorial Army in 1990 and recruitment levels are now starting to rise after a long-term downward trend.

Too often in the past, our Reserve Forces have been neglected and taken for granted; an afterthought when it came to investment and training; a soft target when it came to last-minute in-year budget cuts. Under our proposals, with a balanced defence budget and an additional £1.8 billion of investment, our Reserve Forces of the future will be better trained, better equipped and better resourced than ever before. Collectively, they will take on greater responsibility and benefit from greater reward and greater respect.

In the years to come, we will have Army, Navy and Royal Marines reserves, and a Royal Auxiliary Air Force sitting at the heart of the defence of our nation—Reserve Forces, of which we can be proud, supported by employers to whom we will owe a deep debt of national gratitude. I commend this Statement to the House”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support for the enhanced role of the reservists, the name change to Army Reserve and indeed for his support for the kitemark. We are very keen to approach this whole issue in as non-partisan a way as possible. It is essential that we achieve success on this. We want as much cross-government and cross-party input into the consultation as possible.

The noble Lord started by asking about numbers. I have the current total strength of the Maritime Reserve, Territorial and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force. As of today the Maritime Reserve is 2,500, the Territorial Army is 25,500 and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force is 1,300-odd. The target for our total trained strength by 2020 is for the Maritime Reserve to go up to 3,100, the Army Reserve to 30,000 and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force to 1,800.

The noble Lord asked me about the breakdown of the £1.8 billion. I cannot at this stage give him an answer but I will undertake to write to him. The Ministry of Defence has committed an additional £1.8 billion investment over the next 10 years to improve reservist training, equipment and recruitment. The training packages offered will be sufficiently resourced and challenging to ensure a motivated and sustainable force.

The noble Lord asked me some detailed and legitimate questions about training. I draw his attention to the Green Paper. We have gone into quite considerable detail about the training. Again, we are asking employers and reservists for their input on training suggestions. The noble Lord asked if we had the numbers to undertake operations in the future. We are confidant that we do. He also asked a question about the possible fast track of regulars to reserves. This is one issue we are looking into very carefully. It is really important that we get a large number of regulars to convert to the reserves. We have looked at the track records of the United States, Australia and other countries on this and are open to any suggestions and we very much welcome input from anyone about where we can make up the numbers.

The noble Lord asked about next spring’s White Paper as it related to employers and what incentives are being considered. The MoD is considering financial and non-financial incentives for employers, ranging from the award of a national kitemark-type recognition scheme to an employer financial award that would be in addition to that already provided to an employer when a reservist is mobilised for military service. Most importantly, these incentives will be tailored so that they are accessible regardless of the size of the business. The noble Lord asked me about the value to an employer of a reservist. For a number of years, I was honorary colonel of a TA regiment and every year we had a function with the employers. I met a large number of them and they all valued enormously the input of the reservists and how it made a difference to their company. I am pretty enthusiastic about that.

The noble Lord asked me about trade unions and their input. I would very much welcome it. Indeed we are already in contact with the TUC on this issue. It was a point very well made by the noble Lord. Finally, on post-traumatic disorders, once reservists are mobilised, they have the same healthcare as regulars. Health is an issue on which we want to carry out consultation.

[Lord Burnett]

I join my noble friend in paying tribute to our reserves. They play a vital part in our defence. I wish also to pay tribute to Corporal Seth Stephens, Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, who was killed in action in Afghanistan. He was a Special Boat Service reservist and formerly a regular Royal Marine. I pay tribute, too, to Corporal Matt Croucher, George Cross, a Royal Marine reservist and also formerly a regular Royal Marine. These tributes illustrate, first, what superb work has been done and is continuing to be done by our Reserve Forces; and, secondly—the point that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, made—the importance of attracting former regular service personnel to the reserves. The regulars have had a long, expensive and often arduous training. They know what they are in for and, most importantly, they understand the demands of the service.

Will my noble friend assure the House that reserve service will be advertised and made attractive to regular service personnel who decide to quit the Regular Armed Forces? For example, there might be some pension advantages and carryover of service. Presumably, the military covenant applies also to reservists. I hope that my noble friend will confirm this.

Reservists and their employers must understand that when the reservist signs up for service he or she is entering an irrevocable commitment or obligation starting immediately, if necessary, to serve at the sole discretion of the Government of the day for the duration of their time in service. Our Regular Forces must never be put in jeopardy by anyone who fails to live up to their obligations.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I join my noble friend in the tributes to the two servicemen he mentioned. Like him, I am in awe of the work that the Special Boat Service does. I compliment my noble friend on all the work that he does for the SBS Association. He asked me about incentives for regulars to become reservists. All three services are working to make it as quick and easy as possible for individuals leaving the Regular Forces to join the reserves. This includes simplifying administrative processes, examining the use of incentives and ensuring coherent communications so that individuals who are leaving the Regular Forces, or have left, are aware of the opportunities that exist in the reserves, should they choose to enlist. No decisions have yet been made on the shape of any incentives.

The Armed Forces covenant seeks to ensure that service personnel are not disadvantaged as a result of their service. The covenant recognises reservists. Obligations for reservists very rarely constitute a problem. On the previous occasion I was in Afghanistan I met a number of reservists and regulars. All the regulars to whom I spoke said that reservists were just the same as them—they were not treated differently and mucked in just the same as everyone else. However, obviously, once a reservist is mobilised, he is under military law the same as a regular.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the Statement. I ran to get here but I am not as fast as I was when I was a young officer. I welcome the thrust of what the Government are doing but share the very real concerns I have heard relating to commerce, industry and various firms. I would like to ask a couple of questions. Given the contents of the Green Paper, will there be full and comprehensive meetings with various firms and no coercive legislation to make firms provide reservists, as I think that would be extremely counterproductive?

My other point concerns the cost of reservists. I have had a lot to do with the Americans in this regard. Reservists are not as cheap as one might think when one starts using them regularly. I hope the Government will look very carefully at this because reservists can often cost more than regulars. If that is the case, perhaps it is better to use regulars.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a good point. Our relationship with employers is obviously key to this. The Green Paper sets out a series of questions to employers which will help us to chart the way forward. I very much hope that the noble Lord will contribute to this process, particularly any thoughts he has on the United States example that he mentioned. In addition to the Green Paper, we will host a number of national and regional events to discuss specific issues with public sector and private sector employers. The closing date for this consultation is, from memory, 18 January next year.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass]

My Lords, I do not intend to be patronising, and apologise if I appear to be, when I say that I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Astor, for bringing this Statement to the House. In addition, I think other noble Lords share my gratitude in so far as he regularly keeps us briefed on military matters. That is reassuring.

I want to pick up a point that the Minister made in passing when he replied to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and mentioned other elements of government being involved. The one thing I know, having been a soldier who served virtually full-time for 12 years, is that I understand that if you have an objective and faith in your task as a soldier, it means so much more than if you are wondering why you are there in the first place. So much of what has happened during the period of the previous Government and this Government so far has meant that we have sent our soldiers, reserves and regulars into battle without a clear view of the objective. I have raised this point before, and I deliberately raise it now. When I look at what we have left behind after the sacrifices in Iraq, and when I see people such as Martin Kobler being appointed by the Secretary-General of the United Nations and being little more than a tool in the hands of Nouri al-Maliki as he facilitates the evil mullahs in Iran, there would be no encouragement for me to send my children or grandchildren to become members of the Army reserve. When are we going to have a more vital input and a clearer objective enunciated by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—something that gives our military a degree of confidence and assuredness when we send them into battle?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support. Over the years I have very much enjoyed chatting to him about his distinguished military experiences over 12 years, and I very much hope that he will give his input into this consultation process. We want to change the situation. The noble Lord was critical of the past. We want to change all this, whereby employers, regulars and reservists all have a clear view of where they stand and have plenty of warning if there is mobilisation. That is important. I cannot comment on the noble Lord’s question about the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

My Lords, it is a pleasure and a considerable relief for once to be able to welcome a government Statement on defence policy, and I do so unreservedly. As the noble Lord knows, I am very much in favour of this initiative and I congratulate him on it. I also congratulate General Houghton and Julian Brazier, whose initial study has led to these proposals and provided some of the background. I have just two concerns that I should like to put to the Minister. First, is it not the case that if our reservists are even slightly less well trained and experienced than regulars, we may have more casualties in future operations? That risk can be mitigated only by rigorous and probably more extensive pre-deployment training. Are the Government focused on that?

Secondly, incentives are splendid and, of course, no one would wish coercive legislation on employers, but is it not the case that this will not work at all unless reservists have complete legal protection, as they do in the United States, against discrimination by employers or potential employers in the matter of recruitment, promotion and remuneration? That system seems to work extremely well in the United States. As the noble Lord knows, it has been in operation for a long time; it seems to be widely accepted by American employers and by American society as a whole; and, of course, as we all know, the National Guard plays a vital role in American overseas operations. Does the noble Lord agree that that issue cannot be ducked and needs to be accommodated in the legislation the Government propose?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his support and I will pass on his words too to the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir Nicholas Houghton, and Julian Brazier, the Member of Parliament for Canterbury, who both work very hard. I attended a number of meetings and they were very grateful for the noble Lord’s support. He asked if reservists would be put at greater risk. For reservists doing specialised roles for which they will be trained, pre-deployment training will bring them up to the required levels. The training for reservists will obviously be much greater and they will go into any mobilised operation as well trained as regulars—they will have the same kit, the same uniform—and we will do our very best to ensure that that does not happen.

The noble Lord’s last question, I think, was whether there will be any change to legislation. The integration of reserves within the whole force means that reservists will routinely be part of military deployments at home and abroad. In order to enable this we propose changes to the current legislative power to use and call out reservists. Following the consultation in spring 2013 a White Paper will set out in detail our proposals on, among other things, any legislation necessary to underpin our vision for the reserves.

[The Earl of Erroll]

Will the Minister please have some sort of exemption for small and micro-businesses about the recruitment of people? When an employer hires someone it is because there is a job to be done. If the employer suddenly loses that person for several months, it can bust them. It is very difficult to backfill or infill quickly enough. I had a small business go bust a few years ago because someone was called up unexpectedly, she had not told us properly in advance and she disappeared. We need to have it upfront at the time of recruitment and a small business should be allowed to state that it cannot handle it and have an exemption from it, otherwise there is this terrible thing of not knowing and the penalties on the small business are too great. Small businesses are where the innovation and growth of the future come from. I was a Territorial for 15 years so I thoroughly approve of it all, but please exempt those who cannot afford to do it.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

The noble Earl makes a very good point. One point we make loud and clear in the Green Paper is that we want to be very much more open with employers and bring them into a confidence from a much earlier stage. As for micro, small and medium-sized enterprises, we aim to tailor our approach, adjusting our working practices to reflect the different opportunities and impacts of reserve service for different employers, public and private, large, medium and small as well as by sector.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the intention behind these announcements and, like other noble Lords, I am very glad that the Minister will be taking this through the House, in view of his connection with the Territorial Army and, therefore, the reserves. As a former Inspector-General of the Territorial Army at a time when it numbered more than 100,000, I must take issue with one point that he made. At that time we initiated the National Employers Liaison Committee and the motto that was adopted about what the employers got from the TA, as opposed to what the TA got from them, was, “a profitable partnership”. That initiative has remained. Therefore, the issue that I take with the Minister is the suggestion that this sort of relationship had not existed before and that the Government were going to change it. I hope that that is not so because it seems to me, and from all of the points that have been made around the House, that the National Employers Liaison Committee is even more important now as a framework with which to conduct these discussions.

At that time, and picking up a point that was made earlier about the connection with the Americans, I was told that the most important and useful weapon used by the National Guard with employers was that employers were relieved of having to pay the employers’ national insurance contribution. I put that to the Treasury then and was told that it was a very good idea. I was told that it could happen provided that I paid it out of my budget. I could not do that, but I believe that it ought to be seriously looked at because it would have an enormous impact on employers.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, national insurance is one of the issues mentioned in the Green Paper. We are looking at it. I understand that there are a number of complications, but it is an issue that we are looking at.

I hope the noble Lord did not misunderstand me when I said that we were changing. I did not mean in any way that things were not going well. We very much value the input of the National Employer Advisory Board.

[Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement from the other House. Unusually, I think there is general consensus across the House that this is a welcome move. But, probably, the devil is in the detail. It will succeed or not depending on co-operation from industry.

Those of us who have seen the reserves in operation know that it is not the quality of their contribution. Indeed, in modern warfare, technologically, they are probably more advanced than many of the people whom they are working alongside. This could well be a very good move for our services. But can the Minister assure me that the MoD will be flexible in its discussions with employers, especially when it comes to small firms releasing someone? You may need to help fund a substitute, not the actual person leaving to go on operations. You may need to provide that support.

The pensions issue, which is mentioned on page 56, will probably be a difficult one to overcome. The assurance I am seeking concerns the rules and regulations we have laid down now for engaging with the private sector. They may need to be changed to ensure that you succeed in recruiting the numbers that you seek.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we realise that this will not work unless we have the co-operation of employers. We are keen to get as much input as we can from them. If we have to change the legislation and make other changes to make it work, we will do that, and of course we will be very flexible.

[Viscount Slim]

My Lords, I, too, welcome this Reserve Forces plan. I should like to mention two things. First, I noticed that the right honourable gentleman the Secretary of State used the word “injured”. Military people are “wounded”. The Minister is always good enough to use that word when he talks about the deaths of soldiers and the wounding of soldiers.

A highly paid football player gets a hack on the shin and he writhes on the ground as if he is about to expire: he is injured. A military person who is blown up, loses a limb, is hit by a bullet, shrapnel or sometimes steel: he is wounded. It is not much fun being wounded, but it is a great honour for your country. That should be declared. This awful politically correct way of saying that everybody is injured is quite wrong. The reservist, if he is wounded, would much rather be wounded than injured. There was a time when a stripe was given for being wounded. I know I do not have time to make my second example but I shall make it very quickly. It is not quite over 20 minutes. Why do not the Government get stuck—

[Viscount Slim]

All right, but you have missed a great thing.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, perhaps next week the noble Viscount will share that with me. I always enjoy his stories. I shall take back to the department the important difference between injured and wounded.

Armed Forces: Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they propose to take to recognise the contribution made by the Armed Forces to the success of the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the efforts and the hard work of all those who so admirably made the Olympic and Paralympic Games such a success this summer. Your Lordships will no doubt be aware of the public thanks given by the Prime Minister, the Mayor of London and many public dignitaries. Members of the Armed Forces involved with the Games will receive a commemorative coin as a mark of appreciation for their outstanding contribution. This is an episode that the services can look back on with great pride.

[Lord Empey]

In the aftermath of the G4S debacle, our Armed Forces once again came to the rescue and saved our country from a massive humiliation in front of the whole world. They helped to provide a safe environment for the most successful Games ever and we owe them a great debt of gratitude. Will the Minister tell the House what financial contributions have so far been made by G4S to compensate the taxpayer as a result of that company’s failure to meet its contractual obligations?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that we owe the members of the Armed Forces a huge debt of gratitude for what they have done. Negotiations are ongoing between the London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games and G4S over the fee that the Government will pay as a result of its failure to meet the contractual agreement. I can tell the noble Lord that as a good will gesture, G4S made a donation of £2.5 million to service charities in recognition of the fine work done by our service personnel to fill the void in G4S’s delivery. This donation will be used to support Armed Forces sporting and welfare organisations, including through the purchase of additional sports equipment and support to service sports associations.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, this could so easily have been a security and public relations disaster. Instead, following the failure of that private sector firm, the military stepped in and showed that it can always be relied on. Surely the public would want some form of recognition and it is for the Government to be creative to show the public that they appreciate the way in which our military saved what otherwise would have been a very difficult time.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, as I said in my original Answer, we are giving a coin to members of the Armed Forces, and I have information here on it. All the feedback that I have had from members of the Armed Forces about this coin is that they are very grateful and hugely appreciate the offer.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Armed Forces did a remarkably good job and that we should congratulate those who had the back-up plan in place when the G4S thing went? Will he make sure that, if the Armed Forces want to offer a sort of volunteer service, using their authority and discipline in future events, they will be welcomed and embraced?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend on his second point. It is a very good example of volunteering. As for my noble friend’s first point, the feedback from the public has been extremely positive. Many people have expressed their gratitude to the members of the Armed Forces who made the Games such a resounding success. Indeed, at the Ministry of Defence we have received many letters that praised the professionalism, effort and huge contribution from the Armed Forces.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that this highlights the dangers of privatisation in certain areas that are fundamental to UK security? Does he not believe that the GOCO arrangements for the defence equipment and support areas might put us in a position where a failure by private enterprise actually puts service personnel and the security of the nation at risk?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I do not want to be tempted by the noble Lord to go down that route. We will be able to debate that when we get to that point.

[Lord Selkirk of Douglas]

My Lords, can the Minister say whether additional leave was allocated to the members of the regular armed services who were deployed? If so, was it not thoroughly deserved?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the chiefs of staff have authorised commanding officers to grant additional leave for eligible members of the Armed Forces in recognition of the traditional burdens placed on all personnel during the summer. As my noble friend said, it was very well deserved.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, as it was only 24 July when the order was given for the additional military to be deployed in support of the Olympic Games, that suggests that something had gone badly wrong with the planning for the deployment of security arrangements. Can the Minister say whether lessons have been learnt about this and whether improvements will be made to make certain that, if this happens again, the Armed Forces will get longer warning of such requirements?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point. We did monitor the situation very closely and we were aware early on of the fragility of the G4S business plan. So we were able to come forward with the extra numbers in good time. We were prepared for that.

[Lord Flight]

My Lords, could the Minister also touch on other groups and individuals to whom thanks are due for the success of the Olympics—and if it is not inappropriate, particularly Paul, now the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, introduced to this House last week, who has not put himself forward but who was the brain that organised the Olympics to be a great success and to whom this country has a debt of gratitude?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. It was not just the Armed Forces but huge numbers of people, including my noble friends Lord Coe and Lord Deighton, and as my noble friend Lord Addington said, the huge numbers of volunteers, who helped to make it such a successful Olympic and Paralympic Games.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

Could the Minister tell us how many government contracts for infrastructure support are going to G4S in future, and whether the armed services will be ready to step in if need be in the event of G4S again failing to win a gold for logistics?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am very sorry to disappoint the noble Lord but I am unable to answer that question.

[Lord Burnett]

My Lords, living in London is expensive, but could my noble friend tell the House whether any additional allowances are paid or payable to members of the Armed Forces for their services at the Olympics, which was such a resounding success and in which they played such a wonderful part?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, regular service personnel deployed as part of the security presence at the Olympic Games did so as part of their normal duties. Service personnel did not receive additional pay or bonuses for this deployment, but some personnel were entitled to claim additional allowances, such as the long separation allowance, dependent on where their home bases were.

Armed Forces

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Astor of Hever]

That this House takes note of the role of the armed forces and their contribution to the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I begin by giving a warm welcome to my noble friend Lady Garden in her role on the Defence Front Bench. I am very much looking forward to working with her, just as I enjoyed a very good partnership with her predecessor, my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire.

The title for this debate is wide-ranging, and deliberately so. It will allow noble Lords and the noble and gallant Lord to speak on a wide range of subjects, from the welfare of our service personnel to their equipment; how our Armed Forces are structured and funded; and the operations that they are on now, and those that they will be prepared for in the future. I start by paying tribute to the men and women who now serve in Her Majesty’s Armed Forces. Their selfless commitment, dedication to service and professionalism is inspiring to us all. They do not choose where they are sent, but they are willing to risk life and limb, on our behalf. As a country, we owe them a great deal. In this period of remembrance, let us pay tribute to all those who have served in the past, particularly those who have paid the ultimate price to keep our nation free.

Next year will mark the centenary of the start of the Great War. The ranks of those who fought in the trenches have now passed away, but we remember them in the poppies we wear and in the way in which we honour those veterans of other battles of the 20th century who are still with us—and, in this century, all those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our Armed Forces exist to protect our country and provide the ultimate guarantee of its security and independence. Everything we do in defence is directed to that aim and, in the globalised world we inhabit, that means projecting power abroad to protect our national interests, demonstrating our determination and our values. In the uncertain and rapidly evolving security environment of today, we need to be prepared to meet a complex range of threats and challenges. We will always use our influence to reduce the risk of conflict, but we must be ready to fight and win on difficult and dangerous operations against determined opposition. We cannot do everything on our own, so we must work effectively with our allies and partners. That is what we are doing today in Afghanistan.

The mission in Afghanistan is the first priority for the Armed Forces and the Ministry of Defence. The reason we are in Afghanistan is to protect our national security and to ensure that Afghanistan does not again become a safe haven for international terrorism, as it was under the Taliban before 9/11. Our goal is not a perfect Afghanistan, but one able to maintain its own security and prevent the return of international terror groups. The plan is clear: training the Afghan forces to take on the burden of security so that we can bring our troops home while ensuring the gains that we have made. The reality on the ground is that Afghan forces are increasingly taking the lead. This is allowing us to gradually reduce our force levels; we will have reduced them by 500 to 9,000 by the end of the year, and we expect to make further, significant reductions by the end of next year, with all UK combat operations finishing by the end of 2014. We are firmly committed to the strategy and timescales agreed at Lisbon and to the principles of “in together, out together”.

As the NATO Secretary-General set out earlier this year, the decisions made at Lisbon,

“will remain the bedrock of our strategy”.

When the ISAF mission completes in 2014, it will be for the Afghans to manage their own security. This is how it should be. But the end of our combat mission does not signal the end of our support to Afghanistan and its people. NATO will establish a new non-combat mission in Afghanistan, in which Britain will play its part, on top of the bilateral relationship which we will maintain with the Afghan Government and armed forces. Although Afghanistan will continue to face many complex challenges, the agreements for financial and other practical support made in the summits at Chicago and Tokyo will help to underpin Afghanistan’s security and future.

As we move towards the end of our mission, we need to plan for the post-Afghanistan environment and the transformation of defence to meet the challenges of the future. Operations and standing tasks aside, the past two years since the publication of the SDSR have been dominated by the urgent need to implement its vision: to ensure that our forces are prepared for the very different challenges they will face in the future; to eliminate the black hole in the MoD budget; and to learn lessons from the failures of the past so we do not repeat them in the future. Not everyone will agree with every decision we have made, but at least we have not ducked them. None of the ministerial team at the MoD came into politics to cut the defence budget or to reduce the size of our forces.

I regret some of the decisions we have had to make, particularly the redundancies and the retirement of some of the platforms, but in May 2010 we were faced with one of the biggest deficits in the developed world. We had to make some tough choices: tough choices that were necessary to set a sustainable course for the transformation of our Armed Forces to ensure they are structured, supported and equipped effectively to protect our national security in the face of the threats they will encounter in the decades to come. They were necessary, too, to tackle a forward defence programme that had been allowed to grow way beyond the resources available.

Budgetary discipline has to continue to be the supporting foundation of the transformation to Future Force 2020 or the tough decisions we have had to make will come round again. The defence equipment programme needs to be balanced and sustainable if the Armed Forces are to have the confidence that the capabilities promised will actually be delivered on time and to requirement. Thanks to the hard work and tough decisions taken over the past two years, we in the Ministry of Defence now have a balanced budget with an affordable equipment programme, backed by the world’s fourth largest defence budget. This changes the dynamic. By maintaining discipline we can begin to release the contingencies that have been built into the budget to support further investments in capability, confident that there is a sustainable funding stream to deliver them. For instance, since the beginning of this financial year, the new discipline in our budgetary regime has allowed us to give the go-ahead for a series of equipment projects above the committed equipment programme. This includes 25 extra Foxhounds for Afghanistan, enhancements to Merlin helicopters and new targeting pods for fast jets.

Earlier this year we received the first Joint Strike Fighter. This state-of-the-art, fifth generation fast jet will be flying from the deck of the new aircraft carrier HMS “Queen Elizabeth” in just over five years’ time. New vehicles, new helicopters, new aircraft, new ISTAR, new ships, new submarines, new cyber capabilities—the advanced, adaptable and powerful forces of Future Force 2020 are being built piece by piece. It is smaller than before but able to reach across the world and operate across a spectrum from high-intensity combat to enduring stabilisation activity, deploy overseas and sustain a brigade-sized force indefinitely or a division-sized force in time of need. It is able to command in the coalition context and is more interoperable with our main allies. It is fully integrated between regular and reserves, with predictable obligations for the reservists that will require a real commitment to service, and with a more systematic use of contractors for support and logistics, allowing greater focus of military manpower on fighting tasks. This is the shape of the future force we are building.

I turn to the issues we will be facing over the coming year to help make this a reality. By the latest reckoning around a quarter of the commitments in the SDSR involving defence have now been completed. The rest of the headline targets are on track. Now the Army has set out its future structure in Army 2020 we can begin to deliver on another part of the jigsaw—Reserve Forces. We will be publishing our Green Paper in the coming days. At the heart of this will be renewing the proposition for both reservists and employers, ensuring that the contributions of those individuals who serve are recognised and properly supported and that the mutual benefit the reserve service provides to the state and to employers is grounded in a new, open and tailored relationship.

Despite the incredible contribution they make to operations, the reserves have too often in the past been the forgotten part of our Armed Forces: no longer. They will be larger, receive new equipment and be better integrated with their regular colleagues. I know that there are those who doubt we can achieve our ambition for the reserves but this betrays very short memories. The new levels we have set are well within historic norms. In 1990, the TA was 76,000-strong: the Army reserve we are proposing is modest in comparison. I accept that the new targets are ambitious in the current climate. We will need the support of employers, reservists, their families and society as a whole to make the changes we need in the right way. The Green Paper consultation will be all about establishing how best to do this.

The work we are doing on the reserve is part of the process of providing certainty for our people and transforming the structures that support them and their families. We will announce, by the end of the year, a rebasing plan so that families will know where their future homes will be. We will accelerate work on the new employment model to make service terms and conditions more flexible to better reflect the complexity of modern family life. We will do what we can to make a reality of the Armed Forces covenant because we want our service men and women to know that this Government and the British people recognise the debt of gratitude that we owe to them and to their families.

We will soon publish the first annual report on the Armed Forces covenant, setting out the progress we have been able to make since we enshrined the key principles in law last year. We will therefore, quite rightly, be held to account for what is done to make the covenant a reality. I am particularly pleased about how entrenched the covenant is becoming across all departments of Government. There has been a cultural change in Westminster, driven by the Prime Minister, with Ministers from other departments approaching the Ministry of Defence with ideas on how they can help. The Education Secretary has found money to increase the level of the service pupil premium and extending its reach. The Chancellor has proposed to hand £35 million of fines levied on the banks after the LIBOR scandal to service charities. There continues to be limited financial room for manoeuvre; we will have to prioritise strictly and only make promises we know we can fulfil.

However, these initiatives say that where the Government can act we will, not just in the MoD but as a whole. Underpinning all this work is the reform of the management of defence itself. Procurement has been dogged for years by weak relationships between parts of the department. We have lacked the right business skills and capabilities to manage capital and infrastructure projects that are among the largest in the public sector. We are, therefore, putting in place a new blueprint for the management of defence, as recommended by the report of the noble Lord, Lord Levene, on defence reform. We are creating a leaner, more strategic head office, empowering the service chiefs to run their individual services and their delegated service budgets. By pushing accountability down the chain of command, we are encouraging innovation and budgetary responsibility. This last message is underpinned by introducing a stronger financial and performance management regime across the whole department. The materiel strategy being put together by Bernard Grey and his team in Defence Equipment and Support is the next big piece of that puzzle. This will set out how we will sharpen the boundaries and align incentives internally to ensure consistent, focused decision-making. We are seeking to instil private sector skills and disciplines into our acquisition process, driving up productivity by bringing a private sector partner into the process.

Ultimately, it is the people of defence who deliver the battle-winning capabilities which protect and defend us. As we turn to face the Cenotaph this coming weekend and as we listen to the strains of “Oh God our Help in Ages Past”, as we remember those who have given their lives in the cause of freedom, let us together reaffirm our debt of gratitude to the men and women of our Armed Forces and show them how proud we are of their service.

I beg to move.

Scotland: Trident Nuclear Deterrent

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord McAvoy]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have for the future of the Trident nuclear deterrent based in Scotland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, first, I am sure that the whole House will wish to join me in offering sincere condolences to the families and friends of Corporal David O’Connor, 40 Commando Royal Marines; Corporal Channing Day, 3 Medical Regiment, Royal Army Medical Corps; and Lieutenant Edward Drummond-Baxter and Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar, 1st Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles, who were killed on operations in Afghanistan recently. My thoughts are also with the wounded, and I pay tribute to the courage and fortitude with which they face their rehabilitation.

We plan that the UK’s independent, strategic nuclear deterrent will continue to be based in Scotland, at Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde. The Government’s policy remains as set out in the SDSR 2010; we will maintain a continuous submarine-based deterrent. Work on the assessment phase of the replacement submarine programme has been under way since May 2011. The final decision on whether to proceed with a replacement will take place in 2016, after the next election.

[Lord McAvoy]

My Lords, I join the Minister and the whole House in offering my sincere condolences to the families and friends of Corporal David O’Connor, 40 Commando Royal Marines; Corporal Channing Day, 3 Medical Regiment, Royal Army Medical Corps; and Lieutenant Edward Drummond-Baxter and Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar, 1st Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles, who were killed in operations in Afghanistan recently. We owe them a great debt and will always remember them. Like the Minister, my thoughts, too, are with the wounded, and I pay tribute to their courage and fortitude in facing their rehabilitation.

The nuclear deterrent based in Scotland supports 6,000 jobs directly and 4,500 jobs indirectly, and also supports the local economy to the tune of £270 million. The Scottish National Party wants to remove it. As long as nuclear weapons exist, NATO will remain a nuclear alliance. The SNP states that an independent Scotland will be able to join NATO without endorsing nuclear weapons—which is complete nonsense. Will the Minister join me in condemning the reckless approach of Alex Salmond to the economic and security interests of Scotland?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord. The UK Government believe that Scotland is stronger in defence terms as part of the United Kingdom within NATO, and do not believe that it would be in the interests of an independent Scotland not to be a member of NATO. However, there is no guarantee that membership of NATO would be automatic. No country joins NATO and pretends that it is not a nuclear alliance. The UK’s nuclear weapons are assigned to NATO, and an independent Scotland, if it were part of NATO, would continue to benefit from the nuclear umbrella that it provides. NATO’s strategic concept, as agreed and reiterated by all the allies at the 2010 Lisbon summit, is that its deterrence posture will consist of both conventional and nuclear forces.

[Lord Lang of Monkton]

My Lords, my noble friend’s answer seems to be at odds with the declared policy of the Scottish Administration. If that Administration were to remain in power and Scotland were to become a separate country, has my noble friend considered the implications for the defence of the rest of the United Kingdom, which will have to the north a small, separate country with no nuclear deterrent and inadequate conventional forces?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the UK Government are not contemplating losing the argument on Scottish independence, and are not considering the issue that my noble friend raised.

[Lord Robertson of Port Ellen]

My Lords, I hope the Minister will make it clear that the debate about Faslane is not simply about the thousands of jobs involved at the naval base there—which are prejudiced, of course, by the semi-neutralist policies of the Scottish National Party—but is also, is it not, about the defence of the United Kingdom? The independent nuclear deterrent—which, as he says, is an integral part of the NATO alliance—has protected us and the world from the kind of conventional war that we saw in the 20th century. It will also be a unique and irreplaceable asset for the security and safety of the United Kingdom for the next 30 uncertain, unpredictable years.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with every word that the noble Lord said.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, perhaps I may take this opportunity to add our sincere condolences from these Benches.

Can my noble friend clarify further the Government’s position on the Trident alternatives review?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, on the alternative to Trident, the coalition programme for government is clear: it reflected both parties’ commitment to a minimum credible nuclear deterrent as well as the Liberal Democrats’ desire to continue to make the case for alternatives to a like-for-like replacement for the Trident system. As such, in order to help the Liberal Democrats consider the case for alternatives, the Cabinet Office is leading a review into whether there are alternative systems and postures that could maintain a credible deterrent. That review is consulting experts from various departments—primarily from my own, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—and is being overseen by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander.

[Lord Selkirk of Douglas]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that there will be no arrangements for planning a withdrawal of Trident in advance of a referendum?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we are not contemplating losing the argument on Scottish independence and we will not pre-negotiate the loss of Scotland from the United Kingdom. We support Scotland’s place in the United Kingdom and are confident that the people of Scotland will agree. We are not making plans for Scottish independence, as I said to my noble friend earlier, and we have no plans to move the nuclear deterrent from Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde. There will be no negotiations of any kind with the Scottish Government on arrangements for separation before a vote.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that Coulport and Faslane are only 25 miles away from my former constituency and that there are excellent blue-collar and skilled workers there? Does he agree that those who wish to separate will have to put the case for putting 6,000 good jobs at risk? It would be a loss not only to those workers but to their families.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with everything that the noble Lord said. He mentioned the 6,500 military and highly skilled civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport at the moment. That figure will increase to over 8,000 by 2022, and we have plans in place to base all of the Royal Navy’s submarines on the Clyde by later in this decade.

Armed Forces: Reserve Forces

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord Freeman for securing this debate. Like others who have spoken, I pay tribute to him for all that he has done for the Reserve Forces.

I very much welcome the excellent and witty maiden speech by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Phillips. I also join my noble friend Lord Freeman in paying tribute to the Duke of Westminster, who, after 42 years of service within the Territorial Army, has recently retired.

The Reserve Forces have made a major contribution over recent years. Like the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, I salute all those who serve and have served in the reserves. As the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, said, the Regular Forces could not have done their job without them. Almost 25,000 reservists have served in a variety of roles in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003. In doing so, sadly, 29 have lost their lives. Reserves have and currently are serving in Africa, the Middle East and Cyprus as part of our worldwide defence presence. In this country, they provided assistance in Gloucestershire and Cumbria in the wake of the flooding in 2009 and, more recently, in support of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. This provided an opportunity to interact with the wider public as part of the combined military effort, but reaching out and working within the community has always been an integral part of the Reserve Forces ideals. The links between the military and local communities are often strongest where there are reserve units providing a vital connection between those in the military and the general public.

For all their success, there have been concerns in recent times regarding the health of the Reserve Forces. The independent commission report of July 2011 identified a number of concerns saying they were too small; there were not enough opportunities for high quality training; equipment must be modernised; and that the talents and skills that reservists had gained in civilian employment should be more actively used. In response, in his Statement this summer, the Secretary of State gave his full commitment to addressing those concerns. We are investing an additional £1.8 billion over the next 10 years in our Reserve Forces. This is already having an effect. Reservists are receiving the up-to-date equipment they need to train with, such as Bowman radios and opportunities to use the Husky, Mastiff and Buffalo vehicles. There are now increased opportunities for overseas training and for joint regular and reserve exercises.

Additionally, the structure of the reserve is also being reviewed. Army 2020 set out the road map for further integration and co-operation between regular and reserve units. This is part of the overall commitment for reserves to be an integral and integrated element of the whole force on deployments at home and overseas offering a range of skills and capabilities that complement each other in providing a formidable military force. This is known as the whole force concept. To ensure that this can be delivered effectively, a Green Paper will be published early this month which will start a public consultation exercise. It will seek the views of employers, reservists, the public and private sectors and all those who have an interest in supporting the Reserve Forces. What will be at its heart are proposals to strengthen the relationships between defence and the civilian employer and between defence and the reservist.

Through the consultation process, we will ensure that the views expressed are heard. Any subsequent changes will recognise these positions, and we will ensure that the reserve is fit for purpose. The increase in the size of the Reserve Forces is an essential component of this. The trained strength will increase. The maritime reserve will increase to 3,100, the Army reserve will increase to 30,000 and the Air Force reserve will increase to 1,800. This will allow reservists, who often offer key skills that are not held and cannot be easily maintained within the regular force, to strengthen the military effort. For example, reservists who in their day jobs are doctors, nurses and specialists within the NHS can provide the care that troops on operations may require. Likewise, as we face the challenges and threats that come from cybercrime and terrorism, we must recognise that to respond to a new threat requires new skills. It is the current and future IT graduates and industry specialists who are most equipped in this area, and through membership of the Reserve Forces they can provide the expertise needed for future operations. In this area, it is easy for both defence and the employer to see the value of the reservist as part of an integrated force.

None the less, the impact that a reservist’s service can have on their employer is recognised. Measures are already in place to address this. Notably, an employer can raise an appeal, requesting that the reservist’s service is deferred or delayed to a more convenient time to minimise the impact of their absence. When the reservist is serving on operations, an employer can claim up to £110 per day to cover additional wages for a replacement employee and to meet expenses, such as agency fees and advertising costs.

Crucially, we must not focus only on the impact for the employer. There can also be significant benefits. Reservists receive extensive leadership and communications training which independent research values at £8,000 per person. They will have proven ability to deal with high pressure situations, rapid changes and dealing with difficult parties. Additionally, individuals may well be using and further developing their specialist civilian skills while in uniform. Having an integrated force of reserves and regulars provides the most effective means to deliver a military force equipped for the range of diverse challenges ahead.

In the short time that I have, I will try to give as many initial, possibly somewhat basic, answers as I can. I have been asked some very valid questions and I undertake to write to all noble Lords with much more detailed answers. I will copy in all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. My noble friend Lord Freeman asked about ORBAT. We expect to be able to make detailed announcements on organisations in the spring of next year.

My noble friend Lord Lee asked about the progress of the cadet unit. We are working closely with the Department for Education and everything is on track. My noble friend also asked if overseas employers adopt a more encouraging attitude to reserves than we do. Reserve Forces have been ably supported by a number of organisations, both UK-based and those from overseas. Our goal is to improve relationships with all employers.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, asked for confirmation that we will continue the sustained delivery and investment in the reserves. As I said earlier, the whole force concept is at the heart of our vision and delivery of Future Reserves 2020. We are fully committed to making that work.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield mentioned the welfare provision for reservists. When on operations, reserves receive the same standard and access to care as regulars. The Armed Forces covenant applies to the reserves and we aim to meet that need. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, and the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, asked whether we are confident that we can reach the reserve numbers. We are investing an additional £1.8 billion over 10 years to make that work and we are confident.

My noble friend Lord Glenarthur asked a number of questions and I will write to him with detailed answers. He specifically asked about how reservists will be used, whether we have taken advice from employer groups and what new measures we are planning. I will cover all those in my letter. But the desire is to establish positive, mutually beneficial relationships between employers and defence wherever possible. Increasingly, we will look to take account of the needs of specific employers of reservists, particularly those that are micro-small or medium-sized enterprises.

My noble friend Lord Sheikh asked some very important questions about minorities. I will look into this in some detail and write to him with a detailed response. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Walker, asked about the TA strength. The greatest threat to numbers is the lack of investment and support, and a lack of a meaningful role. The decline in the past reflects that. We are investing in and focusing on the reserves and giving them essential roles that are integral to the whole force. The noble and gallant Lord also asked about changes to pensions and reservists’ eligibility for Armed Forces pensions. The new Armed Forces pension scheme creates one scheme for all, including reservists. There are currently several different Armed Forces pension schemes. Reservists on operations or undertaking full or part-time commitments will all be included within the new pension scheme, should they choose to be so.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked some detailed questions about employers and reservists. I undertake to write to him with detailed answers to his questions as I am running out of time.

House adjourned at 6.06 pm.

Armed Forces: Local Overseas Allowance

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, local overseas allowance is paid to service personnel serving abroad to contribute to the necessary additional local cost of living in a particular country. Rates are not directly linked to Operation Kipion or any other operation. The most recent review of LOA was conducted during the strategic defence and security review, and the subsequent LOA conventions were implemented worldwide in two phases: on 1 May 2011 and 1 April 2012. Their impact varied with location, depending on the total cost of living differential relative to the United Kingdom. As with all allowances, the Government are concerned to ensure that LOA is managed in a way that is fair to service personnel but also, in a time of austerity, to respect the taxpayers’ need for value for money and financial restraint.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that informative response in what is a rather complicated area, but I wonder whether I can press him a little further. During a visit to the Gulf this summer, service men and women raised with me the unfairness that they perceived in allowances, particularly for junior ranks. Will the Minister commit to looking again at the local overseas allowance in Bahrain which, as I understand it, has been cut substantially, is much less than that paid in the UAE and no longer reflects the cost of living, making it difficult to go off-ship when alongside? Will he consider including in this year’s budget the hotel allowance, which allows service men and women to spend time away from the service environment with family and friends, to repeat its welcome inclusion in the current budget? Given the Government’s commitment to the key principles of the Armed Forces covenant, does he accept that those cuts have had a real impact on in-theatre personnel?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the delivery of the policy that the noble Baroness mentions lies with the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency LOA team at Gosport. It conducts visits to the main locations, including Dubai and Bahrain, and decides the rates based on the local cost of items that service personnel need to buy. There may be legitimate reasons why rates differ even in postings quite close to each other, but the noble Baroness makes a very important point. We recognise the role that a fair system of allowances plays in keeping morale high. I have therefore asked my officials to look into the whole issue of Dubai and Bahrain to see whether the system is working as it should and will get back to her.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, on a more general theme, when the cuts to local overseas allowances were announced, it was suggested by the Army Families Federation that because of the reductions, the Army might find it harder to find volunteers to go overseas and that Army messes would fill up, with unaccompanied postings becoming the norm. Can my noble friend tell us whether those fears were justified?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I do not think that the fears were justified. The SDSR set out a requirement to reduce expenditure on service personnel allowances by around £250 million in order to achieve the level of savings required by the economic situation in defence. It is accepted that these changes will be unpopular, and some of them may require adjustments to lifestyle, but they are a necessary part of the department’s contribution to the Government’s overall programme to reduce the deficit. To reassure my noble friend, we regularly review these allowances.

[Lord Burnett]

My Lords, over recent decades much of the outstanding work done by the Royal Navy has been sensitive, and therefore it has not been publicised. I hope that my noble friend agrees that the Royal Navy’s minesweeping expertise is second to none. Is he able to tell the House the value and importance that our allies attach to the Royal Navy’s contribution to Operation Kipion?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the success of Operation Kipion is measured by the fact that our efforts to reassure our Gulf partners through providing a constant presence in the region continue to ensure access and basing in Gulf states. This is vital to support Operation Herrick. The Royal Navy is at the forefront of mine countermeasure capabilities in experience, expertise and technology. The US/UK/French patrols in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz are a routine part of our commitment to the free movement of international shipping in the region. In recent years our ships have played a significant role as part of the combined maritime forces of the Bahrain-based coalition naval force drawn from 25 nations, with missions including counterpiracy, counterterrorism and the maintenance of security in and around the Gulf. These are all highly valued by our allies, including the United States.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, an MoD survey of which the Minister will be well aware has shown that nearly two-thirds of officers in the Army, the Navy and the RAF now rate their own morale as low. That is twice the level it was in 2010. What plans do the Government have for improving the morale of our Armed Forces?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I do not share the noble Lord’s pessimistic view of the morale of the senior Armed Forces but, as I said, we are constantly reviewing morale, allowances and everything else that leads to morale in the Armed Forces.

[Lord Geddes]

My Lords, I was fervently hoping that some other noble Lord would ask this question—but, in my appalling ignorance, what is Operation Kipion?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, Operation Kipion replaced Operations Telic and Calash. It covers operations in the Arabian Gulf, the Strait of Hormuz, the Gulf of Aden, off the coast of Somalia and in Iraq. The latter is a defence section at the embassy, where we have a number of service personnel.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

I thank the Minister for his willingness to have his officials investigate the alleged anomalies. When he does so, I am sure he will bear in mind that although, of course, in a time of austerity, all the sacrifices and cutbacks must be shared, the Armed Forces are unique because very few of those who have a contract with the country or the Government have a contract stating that their service will be accomplished even until death. Will he bear that in mind when he looks at some of these matters affecting morale in the Armed Forces?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. I have looked very carefully at all the rates that the noble Baroness brought to my attention, and I think there is an issue. The amounts are very small, but it is very important to sailors, soldiers and airmen who are out there, and it is very important that we look at it again.

Defence Capabilities: EUC Report

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on securing this debate to discuss the important topic of European defence capabilities. I would like to say how very pleased I am that the European Union Sub-Committee is taking such a close interest in defence capabilities. I very much welcome the analysis and recommendations provided in your report.

We have had a very well informed discussion, as one would expect from looking at the speakers’ list. I will start by saying a few words about the Government’s position on CSDP and defence capabilities before moving on to address some of the issues raised during the debate.

The need for European nations to work together to improve our defence capabilities has seldom been greater. If we are collectively to have the ability to shoulder our defence responsibilities, Europe must commit to developing, maintaining and making available those capabilities. That point has been well made by several speakers. The Government want to encourage European defence to make Europe a more effective provider of international security. The UK-France defence treaties are an instance of how we are doing our part. I am very glad that the committee approves of that, as my noble friend Lord Teverson points out. We hope that our example will encourage other partners to seek better value for money and improved capability through closer co-operation with each other. We must work together to enable Europeans to develop and maintain the range of capabilities that will allow sustained and successful operations overseas.

Let me be clear, NATO will continue to be the foundation of the UK’s defence policy, as it is for many of our European partners. As a defensive alliance, it guarantees our safety. As a political alliance, it offers a unique forum to discuss security threats with north American and European allies. As a military alliance, it enables us to fuse our defence capabilities together quickly in a crisis, as demonstrated in Libya last year.

Although NATO remains our multilateral alliance of choice for the UK, the EU’s common security and defence policy can play an important complementary role, focusing on preventing conflict, building stability and tackling crises. The EU is well placed to conduct this range of activity, through its assortment of capabilities. It has access to a wide range of tools: diplomatic, civilian, military and developmental. It can use its capabilities in places where NATO may not be able to act or chooses not to act. It can provide specialised intervention in complex environments where a more comprehensive civilian-military approach is required.

Although there are clearly improvements that can be made to CSDP effectiveness—I will touch on those in a moment—CSDP operations are delivering. For example, in the Balkans, the EU military operation in Bosnia and the civilian rule-of-law mission in Kosovo are supporting continued stability and, in so doing, ensuring that the significant progress made in recent years does not slip back to instability right on Europe’s doorstep. In the Horn of Africa, the EU is leading the efforts to tackle international piracy and training Somali national security forces to counter the al-Shabaab terrorism threats.

The real value lies not just in the individual missions but in the collective expertise and focus that the EU can place in the regions, including its EU Special Representative and development programmes, among others—the comprehensive approach. However, for CSDP tools to be truly effective, they need to be supported by real military capability and greater political will. Europe as a whole is not currently meeting its obligations to ensure self-sufficient, deployable capability.

Improving European defence capability is not just about the amount that individual countries spend. Indeed, with across-the-board cuts to defence budgets throughout Europe, it no longer can be. Our key challenge is not to spend more but spend more intelligently. The UK-France defence treaties of 2010 are a prime example of effective co-operation and collaboration. These treaties are not about weakening one country’s capability at the expense of another but about two of Europe’s most capable military forces working together to improve interoperability, allowing them to deploy together more effectively and at a lower cost. There are other good examples too, such as Nordic defence co-operation. I was very happy to go to Norway a couple of weeks ago, where I saw examples of this. These should be used by other European nations as clear examples of how nations can work together to improve capability that should and must be replicated by other member states in order to avoid overreliance on the United States.

Turning to other European nations, Germany in particular has the clear potential to be a major player in European defence. We have been working increasingly closely with it on bilateral defence issues. Our key message is that Germany must focus more on generating the political will and public support within which to deploy military resources more widely. However, this need to become a more active participant in European defence is one that applies to much of Europe. There is plenty of scope for getting more with less; the combined defence budgets of EU nations total nearly €200 billion. We can look at building on the relationships formed during the Afghanistan campaign—for example working closely with countries such as Denmark and Estonia. We wish to co-operate more closely with Italy. It is only through teamwork that we can fill the European defence investment gap.

As a case study of a UK priority, I would like to return in more detail to battle groups, which I know were a key part of the committee’s report. The battle group concept was a UK-France-led concept intended to provide the hard edge of the EU’s CSDP. Yet, despite a number of opportunities, such as in Chad and Haiti, they have never been deployed. Battle groups, as per the intention in the original concept, have the potential to be extremely useful in conjunction with other EU crisis-management tools, but this means member states need to be prepared to equip and deploy them. We are working closely with other nations to find ways to improve the utility, flexibility and cost-effectiveness of the EU battle group, including looking at potentially deploying its support capabilities in their own right, in support of other EU activity.

In the current financial crisis, we cannot simply spend more to improve European capability. We must spend better by finding improved ways of working together to get greater capacity from the resources that we have. Part of this means that member states should not unilaterally cut capability without considering the potential impact on European defence. Countries that spend less than 2% on defence need to review their levels of spending and work together more effectively and efficiently. Organisations such as the EDA may have a role to play in facilitating this, but the responsibility lies with individual nations.

European defence does not exist in a vacuum. Indeed, 21 nations are members of both the EU and NATO; if those nations improve their military capability, both organisations will benefit. It is vital that efforts are co-ordinated, complementary and not duplicative. I believe that the NATO and EU initiatives, smart defence and pooling and sharing are the key to establishing capability shortfalls and identifying ways ahead. This requires a strong defence industry within both the UK and Europe to respond to shifting demands and requirements as threats continue to evolve.

Operation Unified Protector in Libya demonstrated that there are capabilities that NATO can provide only through the United States. Difficulties generated by the Turkey-Cyprus dispute for EU-NATO must be resolved as they not only make collaboration difficult but may cause operational difficulty. It is vital that European nations work together to fill these capability gaps and overcome obstacles that prevent further collaboration.

I will do my best to address the various issues and questions raised. If I do not cover them all, I undertake to write to noble Lords. My noble friend Lord Teverson pointed out the problem that the EU and NATO cannot always work together constructively. There are some well known institutional blockages between the two organisations, but that should not stop us from looking for practical workarounds while these persist. Co-operation must be driven from the top down and the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, and Secretary General Rasmussen have both made good inroads to promote greater transparency and co-operation.

The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, pointed out the European capability gaps and the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, said that Europe needed to get its act together. The key reasons for the lack of deployability appear to be member states resources and a lack of political will to invest in making assets fit for deployment, a lack of investment in deployment capabilities such as strategic lift, a lack of responsiveness in keeping troops at too low a state of readiness, a lack of understanding of expeditionary military doctrine and concerns about putting troops in harms way, of which we are all aware. To resolve the problem, member states need to take more advantage of the opportunities and initiatives such as pooling and sharing can provide to better support more cost-effective force generation, which is a point that the review makes very well. They need to make use of initiatives such as the temporary arrangements of funding for strategic lift from common funding. We are expecting that as a result of the recent agreement on temporary expansion of strategic lift for battle groups we can start to see more member states committing to the battle group roster.

Encouraging member states to use participation with other member states in the battle group roster is a way to share relevant knowledge and expertise. For example, as a result of Sweden's participation in EU battle groups, its armed forces are more interoperable and in a better configuration both militarily and politically to contribute to a coalition of the willing. Outside of battle groups, pooling and sharing more generally should be used as an opportunity to share knowledge through joint training.

The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, mentioned that the Prime Minister's last speech on Afghanistan was on 4 July last year. The Defence Secretary and the Foreign Secretary make quarterly Statements on Afghanistan in the other place, which are repeated in this House. I have repeated a number of those Statements. I was comforted to hear the noble Lord’s comment that an American general had told him that the closer he gets to Afghanistan the more he feels that we are being successful. That was very comforting.

My noble friend Lord Palmer asked what we have achieved in Afghanistan. Although significant challenges remain, including making sure that the Afghan Government and the Afghan security forces can deliver what is required after we leave, progress continues to be made. NATO and Afghan forces continue to squeeze the remains of the insurgency, and the majority of the population lives in areas that are progressing well through the process of transition to full Afghan control. My noble friend Lord Wallace and I went to Afghanistan in February. It was the fourth time I have been to Afghanistan, and it was completely different and so much better than it was on previous occasions.

My noble friend also asked about cyber. My department is not the government lead for this topic, but we have a considerable stake in this arena. As well as working with our key partners, the US and Australia, the MoD is working increasingly closely with key NATO allies and EU partners to address cyberthreats. This has included a recent letter of intent signed between the UK and France. The United Kingdom is fully committed to cyberexercises that involve NATO and EU partners.

My noble friend and other noble Lords mentioned our membership of the EDA, an issue that came up yesterday when I did my best to point out some of the achievements of the EDA. The noble Lord, Lord Roper, pointed out that the EDA has not yet fulfilled its full potential. The future of the EDA is being considered by my department at the moment, and I am confident that we will come up with an answer very soon—yesterday I said in the late autumn—that noble Lords will be happy with. My noble friend Lady Garden and I will take back to the department the positive comments that were made today about the EDA, and I am sure it will have noted the conclusions that the committee has come to concerning the EDA.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, pointed out that whoever is elected in America will expect us to take on more responsibility in Europe. This point was also very well made by the noble Lord, Lord Radice. I listened very carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said about President Putin’s ambitions, which are a matter of some concern.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, pointed out that we should be taking much more of a lead on European defence. While NATO remains a central pillar of our collective security, we welcome the clear value the EU brings through its wide range of tools. The UK plays a central role in ensuring that the CSDP delivers where it matters most in successful operations and missions and through setting an example on capability development. In CSDP operations, we are, for example, particularly strong leaders in counterpiracy through our command of Operation Atalanta, and in the field of capability development, we are supportive of the EDA-facilitated air-to-air refuelling initiative.

My noble friend Lady Miller mentioned the Trident replacement. My right honourable friend Danny Alexander is chairing the review into alternative options.

The noble Lord, Lord Jay, as one would expect from a former distinguished ambassador to Paris, mentioned the British-French initiative. The UK and France must work together to lead on defence in Europe as we are the only two nations that have the willingness and capability to engage on the world stage. Others who wish to be involved in the bilateral engagement must add value and must not be allowed to reduce the speed and effectiveness of our engagement, but we would welcome their positive input.

The noble Lord also asked about Mali. The UK supports the proposals for EU engagement in Mali. A well designed CSDP mission could strengthen the democratic institutions and help rebuild the capacity of the Malian armed forces to restore security to their country. The UK is conscious that any plan to launch a separate mission in Mali should be properly co-ordinated with the EUCAP Niger mission to ensure that there is a coherent and complementary strategy for the Sahel. The UK has appointed a Sahel special representative who took up the post on 15 October.

The noble Lord asked about BAE Systems and I rather rashly answered the question. I got a bit of a googly yesterday about BAE Systems, which does not have an awful lot to do with the EDA. I hope that the failure of merger talks will not be viewed as a lost opportunity for the European defence and aerospace industry. Balancing national interest between the three nations and the commercial interests between the two companies was always going to be difficult. The French and UK positions converged during the talks, and the Secretary of State and his French equivalent certainly were in regular contact. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked about ministerial support for BAE Systems. That is just continuing what I have always done. As Defence Ministers, we will do our very best to support the British defence industry, which employs tens of thousands of people. I am sure we are continuing what the noble Lord’s Government did.

The noble Lord, Lord Gilbert, had reservations about the European appetite to get stuck in. While there are examples of this, we must give praise where praise is due and, among others, I draw attention to the incredible support that the Danes and the Estonians give our troops in Afghanistan. My noble friend saw a lot of examples of that. Our troops think the world of the Danes and the Estonians, and they have saved a lot of our lives.

I am conscious that I am running out of time but, finally, the noble Lord, Lord Roper, asked about the balance of competences review. Although the Ministry of Defence is not leading on any of the balance of competences reports, my officials are working closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and other departments, such as the Cabinet Office, BIS and the Department of Health to ensure that defence interests are represented fully. We expect to feed heavily into the foreign policy report, especially with regard to the CSDP and the internal market report in the first semester.

Again, I thank the committee for the report and today’s debate. We have seen areas where European defence has been successful, and areas where we still have progress to make. There is an increasing urgency for Europeans to step up and deliver defence capabilities. The UK-French model will, I hope, encourage this. No one expects all nation states to contribute equally, but they must contribute fairly. The burden of additional investment and capability can be shared effectively and easily. Just as Europe cannot afford a fiscal deficit, neither can it afford a security deficit.

European Defence Agency

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has been the outcome of the review of the status of United Kingdom membership of the European Defence Agency announced in October 2010.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, first, I am sure that the whole House will wish to join me in offering sincere condolences to the families and friends of Lieutenant Andrew Chesterman of 3rd Battalion The Rifles, Lance Corporal Matthew Smith of 26 Engineer Regiment, Guardsman Jamie Shadrake of 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards, Guardsman Karl Whittle of 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards, Sergeant Lee Davidson of The Light Dragoons, Lance Corporal Duane Groom of 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards, Sergeant Gareth Thursby of 3rd Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment, Private Thomas Wroe of 3rd Battalion The Yorkshire Regiment, Sergeant Jonathan Kups of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Captain James Townley of the Corps of Royal Engineers and Captain Carl Manley of the Royal Marines who died on operations in Afghanistan recently.

My thoughts are also with the wounded, and I pay tribute to the courage and fortitude with which they face their rehabilitation. Once again, we are reminded of the immense danger that our Armed Forces operate in to uphold our safety and security. Their families and the whole country should rightly be proud of their heroic service and we shall always remember them.

Turning to the Question, Ministers are still considering the case for UK membership of the European Defence Agency with the aim of announcing the outcome of the review before the end of the autumn. As part of that review, we are looking at the activities of the agency’s four main directorates of capability, research and technology, industry and markets and armaments to assess the benefits received by our membership, including on our international relationships and what improvements there have been in the agency since 2010.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, we all join the Minister in those condolences and tributes to our brave soldiers.

The two-year period of review has now passed with no outcome. Does that mean there is some rift within the coalition? Will the Government now recognise, as indeed EU Sub-Committee C recognised, that we benefit from the pooling and sharing within the agency and that the agency does valuable work in niche areas such as counter-IED, medical support, helicopters and cyber warfare? Further, if there were not a positive response, there would be an almighty row with our French partners.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, there are no rifts and there is no hidden agenda. We said that we would review our membership after two years. We will then provide an Explanatory Memorandum and notify both Houses in the normal way as soon as possible. I am aware of the benefits that the EDA has delivered, but we need to review the full benefits and improvement goals that it has set for itself. In an age of financial austerity, we must ensure that every pound of taxpayers’ money counts for defence.

[Lord Jopling]

My Lords, did the Minister see the recent report of the same sub-committee which the noble Lord just referred to? The committee’s report said that given that the EDA,

“is deemed to be well directed under its current management, it should be given the proper tools and commitment to do a proper job. The UK and France should take the lead”.

Will the Government take that opinion into account in coming to a decision?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I have read the report of Sub-Committee C and, as I said in my reply, we will take this into account in the review.

[Lord Liddle]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that, in the age of financial austerity that he referred to, there is a very strong case for common defence procurement if it can be done economically within Europe, and that potentially the agency has a huge role to play in making that work much better than it has in the past?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with that. If we can do it economically, this makes a lot of sense.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, first I wish to identify these Benches with the sad condolences expressed by the Minister. Does my noble friend agree that some of the successful examples of European Defence Agency initiatives are both the air-to-air refuelling and the helicopter training exercises which have been completed this week? Could he detail any other recent achievements of the EDA?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the EDA has seen significant success in a number of capability areas; for example, as my noble friend said, helicopter training which has directly increased the number of pilots available for operations in Afghanistan. By enhancing the capabilities of smaller member states, we receive an indirect benefit through better burden-sharing in operations. I understand that 114 crews—that is 1,300 personnel—have been trained, of which 63 have been deployed to Afghanistan. My noble friend mentioned the air-to-air refuelling initiative. As part of pooling and sharing, the EDA is taking a lead in facilitating European capability development in this area. This has not yet delivered results but the initiative is at an early stage. This issue was highlighted in operations over Libya where the US provided the vast majority of air-to-air refuelling capability. If I may, I will write to my noble friend on the other achievements—European military air-worthiness, the requirements initiative, industry and markets, and the capability development plan.

[Lord Soley]

Are the Government looking at sharing with the French the facilities recently opened at RAF Waddington for the control of UAVs?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I went up to RAF Waddington a couple of weeks ago and saw for myself what the noble Lord has talked about. I cannot answer from the Dispatch Box whether the French will be involved in that. As I have said previously from the Dispatch Box on many occasions, I welcome as much co-operation with the French as possible. We are working with them in a lot of areas. Noble Lords may have seen in the Daily Telegraph today the photograph of our Royal Marines training off Corsica with the French marines.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

My Lords, would not European defence co-operation have been enhanced if the merger between BAES and EADS had gone ahead? Was it not a tragedy that this deal was bombed by Chancellor Merkel?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that there would have been some benefits from the two companies joining up. However, having said that, I think that BAE will continue to thrive on its own. It has some wonderful products and Ministers in the Ministry of Defence do their very best to help BAE sell them.

[Lord Williams of Elvel]

My Lords, are the Government seriously considering withdrawal from the EDA? Is that one of the options under review?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, it is an option; we are doing a review. As I said earlier, we will report back to the House as soon as possible.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, if the Minister and the Government had to choose between a row with our French partners and the lasting disengagement of the United States of America, which would they choose? When the Minister writes to the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, listing all the glorious achievements of this agency, will he commit to putting a copy of the letter in your Lordships’ Library?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, to answer the noble Lord’s first question, I try to be as diplomatic as I can in relations with both the United States and the French, and I would certainly not want to get involved in any disagreement.

Armed Forces: Military Corrective Training Centre

Lord Astor of Hever Excerpts

Wednesday 25th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trefgarne]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the present number of inmates in the Military Corrective Training Centre; and what is the average percentage of inmates who are successfully returned to their units on completion of sentence.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, as at 24 July there were 101 detainees at the Military Corrective Training Centre, Colchester. On average, over the past five years 56 per cent have returned to their unit to continue serving on completion of their sentence. This demonstrates that the centre is very effective and enables the Armed Forces to capitalise on the training, investment and operational experience of those individuals being retained, which otherwise might be lost.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for that very reassuring reply. Are there not some lessons to be learnt in this regard, maybe in the civil sector, but particularly by the young offender centres whose performance in this area is sometimes deplorable?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am grateful for the positive response from my noble friend. The programme of educational courses and military training that detainees undertake reinvigorates them with the military ethos. On return to their units, the vast majority go on to achieve promotion and to have a successful military career. Direct comparison with the civil sector is difficult because those in Her Majesty’s Prison Service have committed criminal offences, while the majority of those at MCTC have committed non-criminal conduct offences. However, last year 13% of detainees at MCTC had previously served periods of detention whereas some 90% of those sentenced in England and Wales in Her Majesty’s Prison Service had offended before.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the statistics are even better than that because quite a lot of people sent to Colchester serve time there and are then sent for discharge, so of those who are able to go back the percentage is even higher?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point. Indeed, the latest report from Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons is exceptionally positive and has graded the centre as good for its four tests of a healthy custodial environment: safety, respect, purposeful activity and resettlement—something that it very rarely does.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I declare two interests: one as adjutant-general, when I was responsible for the MCTC, and one as Chief Inspector of Prisons. I visited the centre when the noble Lord, Lord Howard of Lympne, sent young offenders there under the mistaken impression that it was a boot camp. In fact the experience of being in a disciplined environment, particularly in the way that they were treated by staff, was wholly positive for those young offenders sent there. Is consideration being given to sending young offenders to the MCTC as part of their sentence, particularly if they want to join the Armed Forces and their level of criminality is not great? Armed with the experience there, they are more likely to have a proper career when they join the regular services after that. If they misbehave, they can of course always be sent straight back to custody.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am very sorry to disappoint the noble Lord but the answer is no. It has been the policy of successive Governments since 1963 that our Armed Forces are manned by volunteers. We have no shortage of applicants who have not committed any crime. In 1996, the Glasshouse was set up as a trial at MCTC for approximately 30 civilian young offenders aged 18 to 21. They underwent a military-style regime, including drill, physical training and room and kit inspections. In 1997 the Government ordered that young offenders tough enough to cope with this would be sent to MCTC, but the scheme was stopped in 1998. I understand that it was too expensive.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, there is so much sense in what the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, said. Could not consideration be given to sending people from the Armed Forces to places such as the young offender institution at Brinsford in my former constituency? I am sure that many of those young people have given up hope. What they need is some discipline and some hope, and they could have those instilled in them at Colchester and elsewhere.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. However, our primary objective is to have a professional, volunteer Armed Forces.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, how many inmates of the Military Corrective Training Centre have been deported after sentence or at the completion of their sentence in the past two years? Of that number, how many have been charged and sentenced through the military judicial system rather than the civilian judicial system? What rights of appeal against deportation do they have, and to which individual or body?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the Ministry of Defence does not track the numbers of deportations or rights of appeal. It is a matter for the Home Office. I will undertake to get these figures for the noble Lord and write to him.

[Lord Addington]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that comparing anybody in a civil prison with anybody in a military prison is very difficult because the overriding characteristic of people in a civil prison is probably that they are educational failures, usually having left education at the age of 14? That should be remembered every time we look at this.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. Our objective in the military is to get these guys and girls back as quickly as possible to carry on serving in the Armed Forces.