Draft Horserace Betting Levy Regulations 2017

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 General Committees

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

rose—

[The Chair]

Order. Gentlemen, before you are called I should say that, according to the House’s guidelines and rules, Members not on the Committee may turn up and ask to stand at the discretion of the Chair. I point out to you that this is a very short Committee meeting today, and we have to give time for the Minister to respond and for any other Committee members to ask questions or answer queries. Nevertheless, I think it is in keeping that the two of you should be given an opportunity to speak, particularly because you both have such a wealth of experience in this area.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

Thank you for agreeing to call me in this short debate, Sir Alan. As you say, I am not a member of the Committee, but I wanted to turn up and make a brief contribution. It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, and also to co-chair the all-party parliamentary group on the racing and bloodstock industries with you. That is the first interest I need to declare. Secondly, the Cheltenham racecourse is in my constituency, and a great racecourse it is. Thirdly, I need to draw the Committee’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I receive hospitality from bookmakers and horse-racing from time to time. I have checked with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, and it is in order for me to contribute to this debate.

I support the regulations. Unlike a number of other hon. Members, I had been born when the levy was introduced—I do not suggest that that gives me any greater authority to speak on the issue. It is important that horse-racing has a boost in income, regardless of where it comes from. We hear about it being the sport of kings. We saw racing at the Cheltenham festival, in my constituency, just a week and a half ago, we are coming up to the grand national festival, and we see Royal Ascot and the Derby. At that level, yes, there is an awful lot of money in horseracing.

If we go beneath that level, we find a very different picture. Many horse races are run for prize money of £2,000. To break even over a season, it would be necessary to win about 10 races, and no horse is going to do that. Owners going into racing at certain levels know for sure that they are going to lose out. There is a need for more money in racing for stable staff, jockeys and trainers at that end of the market. There is a pyramid, and most people are at that end of the pyramid and do not make much money, and many of them struggle.

There is certainly a need for measures to be taken to bring more money into racing. As the Minister rightly said, there is an anomaly. That is nobody’s fault, but it has come about because of the changes in technology and the way people bet. It is only right that this measure be introduced to bring about fairness and consistency in how bookmakers pay the horse-racing levy.

I hope that the Government are not considering taking any further measures, which might reduce bookmakers’ ability to fund horse-racing. That is a debate for another day, but it needs to be taken seriously. If further measures were taken that undermined the bookmakers’ ability to pay, the regulations would be rendered completely useless. I hope that we can proceed with caution in other areas, but we can perhaps come to that on another day.

I echo what the hon. Member for Jarrow said. When we make these changes and more money comes into horse-racing, I hope, as someone who represents one of the top racecourses in the world, that the money is not just ploughed in at the top end and that consideration is given to the many thousands of people who struggle at the lower end of horse-racing. Without those people, there would be no Cheltenham, no gold cup, no Royal Ascot. I know that is a debate for another day, but it is a very important point.

I will comply with your request that I speak for only five minutes, Sir Alan—thank you for giving me the opportunity to support the regulations. I wish the Minister well in her endeavours.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I urge the hon. Gentleman not to talk down the north and the significance of the northern powerhouse. The northern powerhouse is an important part of the Government’s strategy, and the new Prime Minister has made clear her commitment to it. The hon. Gentleman is, however, right to draw attention to the shortfall of infrastructure investment in the United Kingdom overall, by comparison with our principal competitors. That is an issue that we must address at national level. We must look for the best value for money—the projects that will make the greatest contribution to closing the productivity gap across the UK—and that is what we will do.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

8. What the UK contribution to the EU budget is expected to be in 2017-18.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

The Office for Budget Responsibility is responsible for forecasting contributions to the European Union. It will update its forecast in this year’s autumn statement, but the forecast for the UK’s gross contribution in 2017-18 was £12.6 billion at the time of the Budget.

[Mr Robertson]

Notwithstanding all the spending pledges that have been made today and recently, hospitals, schools, police and roads in my constituency certainly need a spending boost. Does the Minister agree that the sooner we leave the European Union, the sooner that money will be available to them?

[Mr Gauke]

The amount of any money saved will depend on the overall fiscal situation and the broader economic environment. Decisions on spending will be made in the round in autumn statements and Budgets, but while we remain members of the European Union, we must of course comply with the requirements to pay into it.

Fixed Odds Betting Terminals

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for securing the debate. May I declare my registered interests? I have received hospitality from bookmakers and racing; along with your good self, Sir Alan, I am joint chairman of the all-party group on racing and bloodstock; and I have the Cheltenham racecourse in my constituency.

It is from the horse-racing point of view that I come to this debate, because bookmakers very largely finance horse-racing through the betting levy and through media rights. If we lose too many bookmakers we will lose horse-racing, there is absolutely no question about that. There are two very good racecourses in Northern Ireland, which I have visited a number of times. We also see the spectacle of the grand national, the Derby, Royal Ascot and, in my own constituency, the Cheltenham gold cup.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is beginning to make an interesting point about the connection between the old type of bookmakers, with sports betting and horse-racing, and the prevalence of high street bookmakers, but will he accept that there is clustering? He argues that doing away with bookmakers will affect the horse-racing industry, but does he not see a line of bookmakers all next to each other one side of the road, and another line on the opposite side of the road? There is a clustering effect.

[Mr Robertson]

I will come to that in a moment, but I just wanted to establish where I am coming from on this issue. There is a link between bookmaking and horse-racing, and if we lose one, without doubt we will lose the other. I want that to be very clear. There are far fewer betting shops than there used to be. We hear about the proliferation of bookmaking shops, but there are something like half the number there used to be. It is important to recognise that, while certainly acknowledging the issues raised by the hon. Member for Strangford.

You have asked us to take very little time each, Sir Alan, and I am happy to comply with that. I hope that the Government will continue with their evidence-based approach. I am not convinced that there has been an increase in the number of problem gamblers. There are people with addictive natures who will be addicted to something, whether that is alcohol, drugs or gambling, but we are discussing only one form of gambling, and many other forms are available.

Any Member could use their mobile phone to empty their entire bank account into a betting account and lose all that money within a minute or two. I mention that to draw attention to whether it would be fair to place restrictions on one kind of gambling when so many other forms are available, including the national lottery. I have linked horse-racing to bookmaking, and I also want to link the national lottery to the many good causes it supports. Billions of pounds have been spent on good causes thanks to the national lottery. I have some news for Members: that money is taken not from the millions of pounds that are won but from the money that people lose on the national lottery each and every week.

I hope we can get a measure of proportion into this debate. The Government should take seriously the important points and concerns raised by the hon. Member for Strangford, but I ask them to continue with their evidence-based approach and to remember that the great sport of horse-racing depends on the actions taken by my right hon. Friend the Minister and the Government.

[Lady Hermon]

The hon. Gentleman is of course the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, of which I am very proud to be a member. He chairs us well.

The hon. Gentleman has called for an evidence-based approach to be taken before the Government do anything, and he mentioned race courses in Northern Ireland. Can he produce any shred of evidence that those who go to the horse-racing in Northern Ireland, or anywhere in the United Kingdom, are the same people who play on fixed odds betting terminals? Where is the evidence for that connection?

[Mr Robertson]

That is not quite the point I was making. The situation is a lot worse now, but five years ago PricewaterhouseCoopers produced a report that said that up to 95 shops in Northern Ireland, which represents around 30% of the total there, would close if fixed odds betting terminals were banned. The hon. Lady is not calling for them to be banned, but that shows the scale of the problem. Some 975 jobs would be lost, costing £18 million per annum throughout Northern Ireland. The knock-on effect for the betting industry and therefore for horse-racing would be huge, because it is the machines that tend to keep the shops going. I am sorry that I did not explain that earlier, but that is my point. Fixed odds betting terminals are far rarer in Northern Ireland, where there are fewer than two per shop, than in Great Britain, where the number is nearer to four, so I am not convinced that the problem is greater in Northern Ireland. That does not mean that there is no problem, but if there is one I do not think it is of the same scale.

Sir Alan, you have indicated to me that I should draw my remarks to a close, so I repeat to the Government: please continue to take an evidence-based approach, and please remember that the sport of horse-racing depends on bookmaking.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East) (Ind)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alan.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing the debate. Many of us have probably applied for a similar debate, and for a Glasgow Member the issue is particularly pertinent. In 2014, The Evening Times of Glasgow found that the city had the highest proliferation of FOBTs—puggies, as they are known colloquially—at one for every 2,458 adults, with losses of £30 million per year. Only Liverpool came anywhere close to matching the Glasgow figure. It is not a statistic that I am proud of.

In my constituency the number of betting shops is particularly high, and they are in a concentrated area. It has been suggested that the disproportionate impact of fixed odds betting terminals on poorer and more vulnerable communities is due to the massive overprovision of bookmakers in such areas. Some streets in the east end of Glasgow have as many as four bookmakers on them, within a few hundred yards of each other, and with multiple FOBT units in each shop. In parts of my constituency, the high street is dominated by fast food shops, payday loan shops and bookmakers, and their proximity to each other is no coincidence.

Areas with a higher density of gambling machines are therefore more likely to be poorer areas, with lower than average economic activity and more people in lower-paid jobs, which means that the machines have a higher impact on people in those communities. I might have taken this incorrectly, but I take issue with the idea that people in such areas have more addictive personalities than those in more affluent areas. This is about proliferation, availability, the absence of hope, and the desire for control. Gambling has a massive impact on the lives and families of problem gamblers, often leaving families in debt, desperate, and more dependent on council and Government services. A report by Glasgow City Council on the impact of FOBTs found significant evidence of clustering of betting shops on many local high streets and other retail centres in Glasgow. Despite a period of unprecedented growth in online gambling, the number of betting shops has remained consistent and floor space continues to increase.

On the points made by the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), the idea that the poor pay in betting shops so that the more affluent can go horse-racing does not seem to me a reason to urge caution on the Government about taking action.

[Mr Laurence Robertson]

I did not say that.

[Natalie McGarry]

Evidence from the Scottish health survey suggests that as many as one in 20 betting shop customers—[Interruption.] Would the hon. Gentleman like to intervene instead of speaking from a sedentary position? I would be happy to take an intervention.

[Mr Robertson]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. What she said was not remotely close to any point I made.

[Natalie McGarry]

That was an interpretational issue, then. I am glad to have my interpretation corrected, because what I said was what came across to me, and perhaps to others in the Chamber.

Evidence from the Scottish health survey suggests that as many as one in 20 betting shop customers may be problem gamblers. The addictive nature of the machines can and does devastate the lives of many people, especially those from poorer communities. The Government need to step in and do more to help those struggling with addiction, and they need to seek out preventive measures.

What is of most concern is the fact that many of the most popular games on fixed odds betting terminals are categorised as B2 casino content and are not subject to the same restrictions on stakes and prizes as traditional slot machine games. With vulnerable people already at risk, the Government must take action and reconsider the B2 classification.

Oral Answers to Questions

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

I join the hon. Gentleman in campaigning for the UK to remain a member of the EU. That is the right thing for us to do both for the public finances overall and for the future of the UK economy, as the G20 communiqué made clear over the weekend. It may well have an impact on the university sector, too. I am sure that that will be one of the questions featured in the forthcoming debate leading into the referendum.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

9. If he will reopen the compensation scheme for Equitable Life policyholders.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Harriett Baldwin)]

The Equitable Life payment scheme has now successfully traced and paid 90% of eligible policyholders. Payments to with-profits annuitants will continue for the life of these annuities. The scheme is now closed to new claims.

[Mr Robertson]

I thank the Minister for that response, but given that many policyholders lost out because of a failure of regulation, which should be overseen by not just this Government but any Government, is it not fair that those policyholders should receive compensation? If they do not, how can any investor have any confidence in the regulatory system that is put in place?

[Harriett Baldwin]

The Chancellor has done more than anyone else to tackle the regulatory failure of the 1990s with regard to Equitable Life. For example, with-profits annuitants will receive full compensation for the life of the annuity, pre-1992 annuitants have received ex gratia payments of up to £10,000, and £775 million has been paid out tax-free to others, despite the constrained public finances. Those on pensions credit got a doubling of their payment just before Christmas.

Canary Wharf Bombing: Compensation

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd February 2016 Westminster Hall

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point, and I am sure that will be a focus of the report of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, of which he is a respected member. I am not able to develop the powerful point as much as I would like to, but I am sure that the Committee will do so in due course.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing the debate. I was at the memorial service last week with him and a number of other people. On the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, we find it frustrating that former Prime Ministers Blair and Brown seem reluctant to give evidence on this very point. If we have to go to America to speak to people there to find out the truth, we certainly will.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

The Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee makes a powerful point that reinforces the concern I raised about the way the Blair Administration dealt with the situation. The Committee was also told that the Brown Government only became interested when the flak started flying over the Megrahi case, when he was being released back to Libya. The Foreign Office then set up the dedicated unit for victims, which, initially, was very enthusiastic, and the current Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron), made some very positive statements about helping the victims when he was Leader of the Opposition. Notwithstanding all the reluctance, tokenism and lack of a conclusion, the victims just want results.

To return to the original question I asked a few minutes ago, I obtained this debate to ask a Minister from the Treasury whether there is a route, through frozen assets in the UK, to end the misery and delay. In my view, that is a Treasury question. If there is not a route, why not and when will the victims see justice? My final quote is from Mrs Hamida Bashir, whose son, Inam, was killed aged 29 at Canary Wharf. She wrote in correspondence:

“we do not require or will not accept any financial compensation for the loss of my Inam. However, due to the murder of Inam and John”—

John Jeffries—

“we do feel a tremendous moral obligation to support all those who have been left severely disabled. A victim such as Mr Zaoui Berezag who desperately needs your help as he is blind, paralysed, has the mental age of a small child and is an amputee. He is cared for by his wife Gemma within a modest council home in East London.”

What further eloquence do the Government need?

Equitable Life

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Thursday 11th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Antoinette Sandbach]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. A constituent of mine who wrote to me has lost 75% of his life savings. He is living on a pittance by contrast with the position he would have been in if Equitable Life had not gone under. There is a broad recognition among Equitable Life policyholders of the stresses and strains that the last coalition Government faced, particularly with a severe economic crisis and a ballooning deficit.

Of course, we are now seeing the impact of the long-term economic plan. When the Government were in difficulties and faced stark choices, I believe that my constituents recognised that and were grateful that the Government were willing to act. Now they can see that circumstances are changing, they are asking the Minister to keep this matter under review, as my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) suggested. We are in a different economic situation from that when this fund was originally set up.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point, as indeed have others. I do not wish to be pedantic, but when we talk about “keeping the matter under review”, we must remember that pension holders are dying, which makes the matter very urgent. My hon. Friend is right to say that the economy has improved to the extent that the Government can afford to pay full compensation, but beyond that I think there is a moral duty. There was regulatory failure, so whether or not they can realistically afford it today or tomorrow, do the Government not have a duty to pay this money?

[Antoinette Sandbach]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, because his point about regulatory failure is absolutely key. Had the regulator been doing its job properly and effectively, we would not be in this situation. That is what lies behind the requests for fairness, justice and equity for the policyholders, who were entitled to believe that proper, appropriate and fit regulation was in place and would keep their policies safe. That is the inherent injustice about which those policyholders are rightly aggrieved. As my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East has said, it is unarguable that the unspent £139 million must be distributed among the pre-1992 policyholders.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Hinds]

The hon. Lady’s definition of “on that very point” has a degree of elastic in it.

The motion notes that the ombudsman recommended in her report that policyholders should be put back in the position that they would have been in, had Government maladministration not occurred. What the ombudsman went on to say just after this recommendation, however, is that it was appropriate also to take into account the impact on the public purse when considering the funding of payments.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

European Union Referendum Bill

Laurence Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 16th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Alex Salmond]

Far be it from me to be the one who stands up for the rights of the people of Northern Ireland, but that is the consequence of being in a multi-national state. Nations within a multi-national state should be recognised as more than regions, counties or areas and should not be counted by population; they are national entities in their own right, and that confers a relationship of respect.

Although the hon. Gentleman and I may disagree on amendment 16, I know we were at one in insisting that this Government show respect to our respective nations in not having the referendum on the same day as our national elections. Our success on that matter indicates the advantage of working together, and I hope we are able to do that on a number of aspects of the Bill.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?