Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Order 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 19 December 2018 be approved.

Relevant documents: 14th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (Sub-Committee A)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, this draft order will be made under the powers conferred by the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1952 and is needed in all EU exit scenarios—thus differing from many of the SIs we have discussed—as the UK has ratified the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. The order amends the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975, which sets out the powers of the Government to issue international driving permits—IDPs—to ensure that UK motorists can exercise their international legal right to drive overseas.

As I have said before, the best outcome for the UK is to leave the EU with a deal, and delivering a deal is the Government’s top priority. In the event of no deal, the Department for Transport is working to achieve an agreement on mutual recognition of driving licences with EU member states. If we do not have a deal that will be by far the preferred scenario but, as a responsible Government, we must make all reasonable plans to prepare for a no-deal scenario and prepare in case we do not achieve mutual recognition.

While UK nationals will not be required to purchase an IDP if we achieve those agreements, this amendment is still necessary as the Vienna conventions come into force on 28 March 2019, irrespective of whether a deal is reached. Therefore, the 1968-format IDP is still required to guarantee licences when driving in over 75 countries outside the EU.

The EU is a popular destination for UK licence holders. Millions of UK motorists drive to Europe every year using ferries or Eurotunnel, whether for business or leisure, and many UK holidaymakers want the option to hire cars while abroad. Although we are still in the process of negotiating with the EU, we are committed to minimising disruption to UK motorists following exit and the department has taken the appropriate measures to achieve this goal.

The 1968 Vienna convention facilitates international road traffic and increases road safety through consistent traffic rules. In preparation for exit day, the UK ratified the 1968 Vienna convention on 28 March 2018. This international agreement will come into force on 28 March 2019 regardless. Following exit day, this convention will guarantee the recognition of UK vehicles and driving licences in 23 EU member states, plus Norway and Switzerland, and over 70 other countries globally. The earlier 1926 and 1949 conventions also remain in place, guaranteeing UK licences in four EU member states—different member states have helpfully ratified different conventions—plus Iceland and over 40 countries globally, including Japan and the USA, if the motorist presents the supporting IDP with their driving licence.

The draft instrument we are considering is necessary so that the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 continues to function correctly after exit day. This is needed to provide certainty for UK motorists driving in the EU following exit day in case of a no-deal scenario if mutual recognition of licences is not agreed.

This SI will amend provisions of the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 to implement provisions of the 1968 convention. These amendments will extend the 1975 order to the 1968-format IDP, and the power to charge a fee for the issuing of IDPs will extend to IDPs issued under the 1968 convention, in addition to those issued under the earlier 1926 and 1949 conventions. The 1968-format IDP will cost £5.50 and will be valid for three years. This amendment therefore ensures that UK motorists can exercise their international legal rights to drive in the countries party to the 1968 convention. If passed, this statutory instrument will become the main legislation on IDP issuing.

The existing SI on IDP issuing is the International Driving Permit (Fees) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. This temporary measure has been in place since 1 February 2019—it came as a negative SI—and was required to allow charging for the issuing of IDPs under the 1968 convention from 1 February. We brought that in so that people were able to apply before exit day for these IDPs, should they be needed. Once the international circulation amendment comes into force, a separate negative SI will be required to revoke the 2019 IDP fees regulations.

These amendments also provide for the recognition of a 1968 IDP issued to non-UK residents who are temporarily visiting the UK by another country which is party to the convention. While the UK has announced that we will continue to recognise both EU and non-EU driving licences for non-residents driving for up to 12 months in the UK, IDPs may help provide legitimacy if the licence is not printed in the Roman alphabet or is in a different language.

It is also important to stress that even though Ireland is a party to the 1949 convention, UK driving licence holders should not need an IDP to drive in Ireland from 28 March 2019. Ireland, like us, does not currently require IDPs from holders of driving licences from non-EU countries. This means that IDPs will not be required when driving between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

While we are still seeking agreements with member states on licence recognition and exchange, this SI will ensure that we can issue IDPs to provide certainty for UK motorists if they want to travel in the EU following exit day. IDPs have been issued for many years under previous international conventions, so while the concept may not be new, this SI will expand the number of countries that an IDP can be used in and will enable us to issue and charge for this document. The 1968-format IDP actually has a longer validity period and therefore reduces the frequency of reissuing. I beg to move.

[The Earl of Dundee (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend comment on a few points? First, the European Union general safety regulations are expected shortly, before the end of March. Can she reassure noble Lords that post Brexit these standards will be observed and matched by the United Kingdom? Secondly, regarding reciprocal arrangements affecting uninsured drivers after EU withdrawal—and not least if there should be no deal—what protection would there be for a driver insured in the United Kingdom who has a collision in France with an uninsured vehicle, for example? Thirdly, post Brexit the desired aim is to make it as simple as possible to get hold of and use an international driving licence. In response to questions in another place the Government have already undertaken to reduce unnecessary complications, in particular by seeing whether there can be an international driving permit app for mobile phones, thereby avoiding the inconvenience of paper copies. What progress has been made on this?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

Good. I share the concern expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about the resources that have been devoted to this. I shall be very happy to be told that I have misinterpreted this, but it seems to me that the day after this treaty becomes active—that is, 29 March 2019—we will have a cliff-edge situation. If we crash out without a deal, motorists will arrive in overseas countries illegally. The estimate of 7 million might be too high but, as I read the situation, technically an awful lot of people will need an IDP on the very first day. Can the Minister try to convince us that the processes necessary to meet such a sudden demand, and the plans for publicity so that the motoring public know, can be put in place so that we do not see many British motorists arriving overseas and finding themselves prosecuted?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords again for their consideration of the draft regulations—the last of ours today. In the event of no deal, we remain confident that we will achieve mutual recognition and exchange agreements for driving licences with the EU and member states. As I said, we recognise EU and non-EU driving licences and very much hope that EU member states will also do so, which will remove the complexity of the system. But, obviously, until we have that agreement we must be prepared for all scenarios, so it is important to ensure that we can issue IDPs under the 1968 Vienna convention to provide that certainty for UK motorists driving in the EU.

I will respond to some of the questions raised. My noble friend asked about uninsured drivers. We intend that the UK should remain part of the green card-free circulation zone, and we are working towards that. We are seeking reciprocal arrangements to ensure that UK drivers who are hit by an uninsured driver, for example in France, can obtain compensation from the French national insurers’ bureau. On safety regulations, we have one of the best road safety records in the world; I am not familiar with the specific document which my noble friend referred to, but I assure him that we will work to continue and maintain that good safety record.

On the IDP format and the idea of an app—a new one on me, but I like the sound of it; you could perhaps called the IDP look “traditional”—the format is specified in the UN conventions, and at the moment an app or electronic document is not applicable. However, I agree with my noble friend that we should consider that in order to modernise and to enable permits to be applied for more easily.

On consultation, obviously this affects a huge number of people. We did a lot of consultation around the 1968 Vienna convention, which brought this in, we have held many discussions with motoring organisations such as the AA, the RAC and the RAC Foundation, and we have also had separate engagements with consumer associations, which are helping us to provide guidance to people.

On the communications point, I agree that the Government’s duty is to ensure that UK licence holders are provided with the correct and sufficient information to make sure that they are ready for the changes. As I say, we hope that they will not be needed. We have published guidance on GOV.UK, which covers everything, such as the type of IDP you will need in each member state—the noble Baroness was right to point out that you will need different IDPs if you are driving from France to Spain, which, just to add to the confusion, are valid for different amounts of time. The Post Office website also provides information on your nearest IDP-issuing branch, and which countries you will need which IDP for, and it will continue to update this guidance as we progress, I hope, with achieving bilateral agreements.

We have a public information campaign that ensures that UK nationals have all the information and advice they need to continue to plan and book their travel to Europe. It includes radio adverts, Spotify adverts and social media. As I say, we are in no way complacent that we will achieve this deal and IDPs will not be needed—that is why we are bringing forward these SIs. However, if we do not get a deal—I agree with the noble Lord that this is a very good example of why we need a deal—there is still the option of the mutual recognition of driving licences, which we are moving towards, especially as we are 45 days out. If we are closer to exit without this agreement and it looks less likely that we get it, I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that we need to do all we can to ensure that we communicate that.

[Baroness Randerson]

Can the noble Baroness specifically address the issue of people living abroad—there are millions of Britons live abroad—and how they would obtain an IDP, and whether specific publicity will be aimed at them?

[Baroness Sugg]

The noble Baroness was right to point out that, sadly, we are not able to issue these abroad, in the same way that we are not able to issue driving licences abroad, which obviously gives expats in particular specific problems. We are working actively with the Foreign Office to communicate with UK nationals who live overseas, using the normal consular routes to provide information on that. We are encouraging UK licence holders already resident in EU or EEA countries to exchange their licences ahead of exit day, which will avoid the potential for them to have to retake tests. IDPs are designed for visitors, not people who are resident in another state, so we are providing clear advice to people who are resident in another state that they should exchange their licences ahead of exit day.

[Baroness Randerson]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving way again. The concept of “resident in another state” is in itself quite old-fashioned. People go to work for six months, three months, even a year. They will not want to change their driving licence to make life even easier for them in that period of time; they will want an IDP for a short time. Of course, they have not had to bother about all this up to now.

[Baroness Sugg]

I agree with the noble Baroness. This is why we recognise EU and non-EU driving licences for a period of up to 12 months, for people to drive if they are not resident, because of the changing nature of how people live and work. That is why we very much want to achieve mutual recognition. However, if that is not possible, we will be in a situation where people will have to apply for IDPs before 1 March.

On resourcing, which both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord brought up, as did the SLSC, we have expanded the turn-up-and-go service for issuing IDPs from 89 originally to 2,500 post offices, which means that 90% of the UK population live within 10 miles of an issuing branch. We have also optimised that branch network to ensure that there is a good level of availability at locations that are points of departure for UK motorists, such as ferry ports and airports. The noble Baroness is quite right to point out that there were not enough post offices in Northern Ireland that could issue IDPs; that has significantly increased from two to around 100. We have had confirmation that all the staff have been trained on how to issue all three different formats, and, while this will be demand led, should demand increase, we have the facility to expand the services to an additional 2,000 post offices, which will mean that 90% of the population will live within three miles of an issuing branch.

It is difficult to quantify how many of these we will need, given that we do not have clear data on individual journeys and what licences people who undertake those journeys have. So far, we have issued an average of 2,500 IDPs a day since 1 February—about one per relevant post office per day. The DVLA has printed 2 million IDPs across all three formats to prepare for the increase in demand. However, as I say, if we see an increase in demand, we have the possibility to expand it. On staffing levels, we do not believe that we will need further staff for the Post Office. It takes around five minutes to apply for an IDP and get it issued. I very much hoped to be able to be a mystery shopper and get down to a post office myself, but, sadly, I ran out of time before this debate. We remain confident that the Post Office will be able to deal adequately with this request. Back in the day when tax discs were issued over the counter, it delivered 30 million transactions across 4,000 branches for the DVLA, so we think it has the capacity.

The noble Baroness asked about the change to the issuing of IDPs, as they are now issued by the Post Office and not online. At the end of 2017, we looked at four different options: to continue and extend the existing arrangements, which you could do by post—that was with the AA and the RAC; to give responsibility to the DVLA to issue IDPs, via the Post Office or another supplier; the possibility of an online system but with the physical document provided by someone else; and we looked at a DVLA online direct supplying system. We decided to reject the option to continue and extend the existing arrangements, as it would not have been possible to continue that under the current government procurement rules. There was also considerable uncertainty about the volume which was needed, which continues, and we thought that would be difficult for potential suppliers to be able to quote accurately. We did consider the possibility of an online system, but ultimately that was rejected. We thought that there would be a significant risk of a wasted investment on that. Moreover, such a system would not have been available to the 5 million licence holders who are without a photo card licence—although, obviously, the vast majority have one.

I return to the point that we are hopeful of achieving mutual recognition on this if we do not get a deal, but I agree with the noble Lord and the noble Baroness that this is a complex system—a messy one, as the noble Lord called it. We do not want to be in a situation where IDPs are necessary, and that is why we are trying to achieve a deal with the European Union; I very much hope that we will reach agreement on a deal soon, but the issuing of IDPs is a sensible contingency approach in the event of a no-deal scenario. It is the only way to absolutely ensure and guarantee that our licences will still be recognised after exit in the event of no deal. It relies on the international arrangements that are outside the control of the EU, but we hope to agree a deal or mutual recognition, which is obviously in the control of the EU and we will continue to press ahead with that.

This SI is essential to ensuring that UK motorists will be able to drive in the EU following exit day. The option of purchasing an IDP provides drivers with that certainty for driving in the EU under all potential scenarios.

Motion agreed.

Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seatbelts) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 29 November 2018 be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, these draft regulations are made under the powers conferred by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. They amend domestic seat belt-wearing legislation to ensure that it continues to work following withdrawal in the event of no deal. They make technical changes and do not alter policy. In Northern Ireland, seat belt-wearing legislation is a transferred matter. Of course, the Government remain committed to restoring devolution in Northern Ireland, but with exit day six weeks away, and in the continued absence of a Northern Ireland Executive, in the interest of legal certainty the Government will take through the necessary secondary legislation at Westminster for Northern Ireland. This has of course been done in close consultation with the Northern Ireland Civil Service.

Compulsory seat belt wearing has been in place for 36 years. Subsequent obligations have been placed on front and rear seat passengers domestically. The purpose of this statutory instrument is to correct technical deficiencies that would arise domestically if we were to exit without a deal. This will enable us to maintain a functioning statute book and retain the clarity that might otherwise be lost. The instrument maintains the status quo in terms of seat belt and child restraint use obligations and the recognition of medical exemption certificates. It does not diverge from the robust legal framework we already have in place. The current EU Directive 91/671/EEC sets out the requirements for compulsory seat belt wearing. There are exceptions and caveats but the basic position, stemming from the directive and incorporated in domestic law, is that for cars, vans and lorries, seat belts must be worn where fitted. Children must also use a suitable child restraint system, and children under three cannot be transported if there is no safety system in the vehicle.

Drivers and passengers who have a medical condition making it inadvisable for them to wear a seat belt can be issued with an exemption certificate. The Road Traffic Act 1988, The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993, and The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations 1993 require drivers and passengers to wear adult belts, including those approved in “another member State”, and recognise child restraints approved in “another member State”. They also recognise medical certificates exempting a person from the requirement to wear a belt issued in “another member State”. The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995, the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1993, and the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1993 have the same effect in Northern Ireland. This draft instrument makes the necessary changes so that the regulatory regime in place after exit continues to operate as it does now.

The regulations remove existing powers and duties in the Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995, which exist to make subordinate legislation for implementing an EU directive. The powers and duties that are being removed relate to the implementation of the EU seat belt directive. Once the UK has exited the EU, it would no longer be appropriate to retain the powers and duties to implement the obligations imposed by a European directive. We will retain existing domestic powers in the Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 to enable Government to maintain, and amend where necessary, the existing legal framework governing seat belt wearing. This SI replaces the duty to provide an exemption from wearing a seat belt for any person holding a certificate issued in an EU member state with a power to do so.

The regulations replace the term “another member State” with “a member State” where it occurs in domestic legislation. This is necessary to ensure the law remains clear and continues to have its current effect. Without these changes, the relevant provisions might be rendered ineffective. Changing this terminology will ensure that medical certificates issued to drivers and passengers in EU member states who cannot wear seat belts because of a medical condition continue to be recognised in the UK.

The change in terminology will also ensure that passengers are obliged to wear an adult seat belt even when the only belt available was approved by an EU member state and is not otherwise compliant with use in the UK. That is important because there is an exemption from the requirement to wear a seat belt if a compliant seat belt is not available. If such seat belts ceased to be compliant by virtue of our not making this technical change, then their non-use would no longer constitute an offence. We want to be clear that, in simple terms, if a seat belt is available then it must be worn. After exit day, any lack of clarity over what constitutes a compliant seat belt could lead to confusion, which would clearly be neither a safe nor a sensible policy.

It is similar with child restraint systems. The final effect of the change in terminology is to ensure that driving in the UK with a child restraint system that would meet the requirements of the law of an EU member state, but that would not otherwise meet the requirements of domestic legislation on seat-belt wearing, does not become an offence. That is to try to avoid confusion for any family travelling to the UK over whether that child restraint is legal.

We have in place a robust legal framework in respect of seat-belt wearing which aims to improve road safety. In the interests of safety, we want that framework to continue after exit day. The Government want to ensure that domestic seat-belt legislation continues to work in a way that retains good travel, tourism and business access from EU member states following the UK’s exit. For this to happen, we need to ensure that the legislative basis is sound and that the statute book functions properly. I beg to move.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I will begin by pointing out that Paragraph 7.8 of the Explanatory Memorandum says:

“With exit day less than one year away”.


I keep repeating this because I want to know where these SIs have been all this time. Someone clearly did the work on them a long time ago, and we are now rushing them through this House. Why have they been left to this late stage?

That is my complaint over with. Turning to the issues in this SI, as the Minister has said, it is a simple transposition. But it is an important topic, because hundreds of thousands—probably millions—of British people travel abroad to Europe every year. A very large number of them take their car, and could therefore start off with perfectly legal seat belts only to find themselves in an illegal situation by the end.

This SI basically says “If it is legal in the EU, it will be legal in the UK. If you are exempt in the EU, you will be exempt in the UK”. What about UK drivers going to the EU in the situation I have just explained? Has the EU indicated what it intends to do in the event of a no-deal Brexit? On some transport issues, it has given a fairly clear—if not always desirable—indication. Has it made any comments on this at all?

Those who are in favour of Brexit, including the Secretary of State, want the freedom to develop our own standards. If we do, will we be guaranteed that, when we go to Europe with, say, our child’s bumper seat—which people often take with them on holiday—it will be legal when we get there?

There has been a lot of coverage lately of the end of the EU medical insurance system as it applies to UK residents. Is there a set format for the medical certificates referred to in this SI? Is there a particular form or list of medical professionals who can sign these certificates? My point is, how easy will it be in future for UK citizens to get a certificate of medical exemption that will be instantly recognised as authentic and acceptable, even by someone who perhaps does not speak English? To reverse that, if there is an EU format, then we will clearly be used to it, and the authorities in Britain coming across someone with a medical exemption would know about it. I am trying to tease out the way in which British people will be treated in future when they drive in the EU.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, leaving the EU without an agreement is a thoroughly stupid thing to do, but if it happens, this SI is thoroughly sensible and we will not oppose it. My understanding, which I think is the same as that of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, is that it is not symmetric: that it does nothing for UK drivers in the EU but sensibly addresses the issue of drivers who would unknowingly be breaking the law were this SI not completed. It produces a sensible environment in which friends—as I would call them—from the European Union can drive in the UK.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations. As the noble Baroness pointed out, these regulations are important—seat belts save lives. In 2017, 27% of car fatalities involved people not wearing a seat belt, and we need to ensure that as many people as possible wear them. That is what these regulations are designed to do.

I take the noble Baroness’s point on the Explanatory Memorandum. The drafting of some of these has been a lengthy process—with consultation, legal checks et cetera—but I take her point, and we will endeavour to do better for future as we get closer in.

Both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord mentioned reciprocity. This SI only makes provision for continuity of current practices in so far as visitors from the EU to the UK, and drivers in the UK, are concerned. It does not address what will happen in the EU; that will be decided by the European Union.

There will be no legal obligation on member states to recognise medical certificates issued in the UK. In the event of no deal, we will recognise medical certificates. We think that is far and away the easiest way to do it. But no reciprocal agreement has been confirmed by the EU, so we advise anyone holding such a certificate to check the position with any country to which they intend to travel. There is a current format which we provide to GPs—it is essentially a GP certificate. They are responsible for issuing them, and we will ensure that that format is consistent when we leave the EU. We cannot guarantee that they will be recognised, but we would like very much to think that they would be in the same way that we will recognise theirs, although the EU has not yet confirmed that.

There is no change on seat belts. The EU directive requires drivers and passengers to wear them, if they are fitted, so the position there will stay the same. At the moment, the standards for child restraints are set at UNECE—the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe—which, despite having the word Europe in its name, as we discussed in the Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill, is an international body. It will continue to set those standards, and we will continue to follow them. Child restraints which meet the UNECE international requirements will be recognised by the EU; the vast majority of UK child restraints meet those requirements.

I think I have covered most questions. Again, if I have missed one, I will follow up in writing.

In conclusion, this SI will ensure that the domestic seat-belt wearing legislation continues to work as at present. The point of the SI is to maintain the status quo, both in terms of seat-belt and child restraint use obligations and in the recognition of medical exemption certificates from EU member states. The Government’s objective is to maintain the status quo to avoid difficulties that would be encountered by drivers and, indeed, enforcers if existing legislation remained untouched. I hope noble Lords will agree that this is sensible in respect of laws relating to the wearing of seat belts.

Motion agreed.

Air Services (Competition) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 5 December 2018 be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, if it is convenient, I will speak to both the Air Services (Competition) (Amendment) EU Exit Regulations 2019 and the Airports Slot Allocation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. These instruments will both be made using powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and will be needed if the UK leaves the European Union without a deal.

The two draft instruments will correct the following retained EU regulations: Regulation 868/2004, which is intended to provide protection for Community air carriers against injury caused by subsidisation and unfair pricing practices relating to air services between EU member states and third countries; and Regulation 95/93, which sets out the process for the fair and transparent allocation of airport slots—the right to use a bundle of facilities at airports for landing or take off of an air service at specific dates and times; for example, runways, stands and terminals where the demand at congested airports exceeds the available infrastructure.

I turn first to the draft air services competition instrument. The EU regulation sets out the process and requirements for imposing redressive measures in the form of tariffs or fines where it has been demonstrated that subsidies or unfair pricing practices by third-country bodies and air carriers, with respect to routes between EU member states and third countries, have caused injury to the EU aviation industry. This EU regulation has never been used and is currently in the process of being replaced. However, the effect of Section 3 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is that any direct EU legislation which is in force and applicable on exit day will automatically become part of the UK’s statute book. Therefore, the instrument that we are considering today simply makes those corrections necessary so that the version of Regulation 868/2004 brought into UK law by the EU withdrawal Act is, in principle, legally operable after exit day.

This instrument makes only technical corrections to the retained Regulation 868/2004, meaning that the substantive requirements for assessing whether there has been subsidisation, unfair pricing practices or injury to industry remain exactly the same. The corrections include ensuring that the scope of the retained EU regulation is correct once the UK has left the EU; for example, substituting references to “Community” with references to the “United Kingdom”. This has the effect that the retained regulation applies where there has been injury to the UK aviation industry. Instead of applying where there are unfair pricing practices by “non-Community” air carriers on certain routes to and from the EU, the retained regulation will apply where “non-United Kingdom” air carriers have engaged in unfair pricing practices on certain routes to or from the UK. Similar changes apply in relation to the subsidisation provisions in the retained EU regulation.

This instrument also transfers functions currently carried out by EU institutions to appropriate bodies in the UK. For example, it transfers the function of carrying out investigations covering subsidisation and/or unfair pricing practices from the European Commission to the Civil Aviation Authority.

Finally, this instrument transfers the function of imposing provisional or definitive redressive measures to the Secretary of State. As the EU regulation sets out that the process for this is through further regulations, this instrument also sets out that any provisional or definitive redressive measures would be imposed by the Secretary of State through regulations.

I turn next to the draft airports slot allocation instrument. The EU regulation applies at congested airports where the availability of adequate infrastructure is insufficient to meet demand. The regulation sets out conditions that must be met for an airport to be “schedules facilitated” on a voluntary basis or subject to “slot co-ordination”. A thorough capacity analysis must first be carried out, which must be done within six months, if air carriers representing more than half of the operations at an airport or the airport authority consider capacity to be insufficient for actual or planned operations, or upon request from the European Commission, in particular if new entrants encounter serious problems in securing slots.

The regulation also specifies that any decision that an airport should be subject to slot co-ordination should be taken following thorough capacity analysis and consultation with users of the airport and that an independent slot co-ordinator should be appointed by the relevant member state. The following airports in the UK are currently subject to slot co-ordination: Birmingham, London City, Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton, Manchester and Stansted; and Bristol Airport is partially co-ordinated for the summer season. Airport Coordination Limited, or ACL, has been appointed as the slot co-ordinator for UK airports, and has been performing this function for some time.

Under the regulation, slots are allocated to air carriers that held the slot in the previous season and have demonstrated use of the slot at least 80% of the time during that season. The remaining unused slots are returned to what is known as the slot pool, alongside any newly available slots; 50% of the slots in the slot pool are available to new entrants. The regulation also makes provision for member states to reserve certain slots for essential domestic services, such as public service obligations, and for slots to be exchanged between carriers or transferred between different routes or types of service.

Finally, the regulation contains provision for reciprocal action, to ensure that Community carriers requesting slots in non-EU countries are treated fairly.

Once again, the draft instrument we are considering makes only minor changes to ensure that the retained EU regulation, Regulation 95/93, continues to function correctly once the UK has left the EU, alongside the domestic Airports Slot Allocation Regulations 2006 which were made to implement the EU regulation. Most of the changes the instrument makes are to ensure that the scope of the retained regulation is correct; for instance, reflecting that the retained regulation will only apply to airports in the United Kingdom after exit day, removing references to “Community law” and EU treaties, and removing or amending references to member states, as these will no longer include the UK after exit day.

Through the 2006 implementing regulations, the UK has fulfilled the requirements for member states to appoint a body or person to carry out functions such as designating an airport as schedules facilitated or co-ordinated, and appointing a schedules facilitator. The UK conferred these functions on the Secretary of State through the 2006 regulations. This instrument corrects the provisions in the EU regulation so they read consistently with the 2006 implementing regulations, reflecting that the UK has already fulfilled its obligation to confer these functions on an appropriate authority. Other roles for EU institutions, such as the European Commission’s role of carrying out investigations, are removed or replaced.

The instrument also makes corrections to some of the definitions contained in the EU regulation; for instance, substituting the definition of a “Community air carrier” with a definition of a “UK air carrier”. For the purposes of allocating slots from the slot pool, the EU regulation defined “new entrant” as including air carriers with few, if any, slots which requested slots for scheduled services between two Community airports where at most two other carriers operate that route. This instrument amends that part of the definition to provide for continuity, so that it captures both air carriers requesting slots for passenger services between two UK airports and carriers requesting slots for services between a UK airport and an airport in an EEA state.

The regulations provide that a proportion of slots can be reserved for PSOs. This SI amends the definition of a PSO in line with the corrections already made to provisions in EU law on PSOs, through the Operation of Air Services (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018. This means that, instead of being open to Community air carriers, “qualifying air carriers” will be eligible to operate PSOs in the UK. This will include UK air carriers and carriers from other countries that have cabotage rights in the UK—the right to fly between two points within the UK. As is currently the case, any PSO can be limited to one carrier by the Secretary of State only after a tender process has been followed. This change has no effect on the PSO routes already operating in the UK.

In terms of reciprocity, this instrument amends the provisions in the EU regulation so that, instead of the Commission being able to take action to ensure that Community carriers requesting slots in non-EU countries are treated fairly, the provisions give powers to ensure that UK carriers requesting slots in another country are treated fairly in the allocation of slots at that country’s airports. This instrument therefore sets out that it is the Secretary of State, rather than the European Commission, who may wholly or partially suspend the operation of the retained Regulation 95/93 in relation to air carriers from a non-UK country, with a view to remedying discriminatory behaviour of that country. The EU regulation currently provides for this action to be taken through a regulation and this instrument transfers that function to the Secretary of State, who could carry this out through regulations.

Finally, this instrument makes some minor changes to the 2006 implementing regulations, for instance removing the requirement for co-ordination committees at airports to invite the European Commission to meetings. It also makes a change to Annexe XIII to the EEA agreement, which requires parties to the agreement to inform the European Commission about serious difficulties encountered by UK air carriers in obtaining airport slots in third countries. This provision will not apply to the UK after exit day in the event of no deal, as we will no longer be a party to the EEA agreement, so it will be removed by this instrument as it will be redundant.

As I said during the debate on the previous SI, the best outcome for the UK is to leave the EU with a deal, and delivering a deal negotiated with the EU remains the Government’s top priority. However, as a responsible Government, we must make all reasonable plans to prepare for a no-deal scenario. These instruments ensure that, in the event of a no-deal exit from the EU, the legislative framework for aviation, in particular relating to the allocation of slots at congested airports in the UK, continues to work effectively, and that the aviation industry has clarity about the regulatory framework in which it would operate in a no-deal scenario. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, this is designed to be helpful, so I hope that my noble friend will not put me in the “troublemaker” category. I will start with a couple of questions on the airport slots allocation. What will happen to the current grandfather rights, in particular those that might be enjoyed by EU carriers? Will they continue to be enjoyed after exit day? If that is the case, and this regulation comes into effect, what will happen to the grandfather rights currently enjoyed by UK carriers in EU airports?

On the civil aviation competition regulations, paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum states—my noble friend clearly said it in her opening remarks too—that it is not expected that this regulation will come into force. That begs a question. I cannot believe that there have been no unfair pricing practices and no cases of subsidy; if there have, what legislation has been used? There are some very worrying issues about this regulation and the European Commission regulation on connectivity which is going through the EU institutions at the moment.

My noble friend raised the question of cabotage rights in the UK currently enjoyed by EU carriers. Of much greater concern is that the market access proposals in the EU regulation currently before the EU institutions set alarm bells ringing, for me and I am sure for many of the UK carriers, when they were set out in December. It is my clear understanding that cabotage rights and fifth freedom rights will be lost.

I declare my interest; I was one of those in the European Parliament at the time who campaigned for years to get cabotage and fifth freedom rights. When I met my husband, who was at the time working for Delta Airlines, my opening line was, “Why will the US Government not allow cabotage and fourth and fifth freedom rights for European carriers in the US?”, which I think is currently not the case. If UK and EU carriers are going to retain only third and fourth freedom rights, how can that be in the interests of the UK airline sector?

I am sure that my noble friend is more aware than anyone of the importance of the UK airline sector. It turns around £52 billion a year, exports £26 billion, supports almost a million jobs and clearly supports the economy, whether it is Leeds Bradford Airport or any of the London airports. All international airports support their local economies as well. Therefore I would be grateful if my noble friend could say what the impact will be on UK airlines of the loss of cabotage and the loss of fifth freedom rights in the EU, whether or not there is a deal, because I understand that will be the position anyway, whether it is this regulation or another regulation going forward.

I understand that there will also be an impact on capacity. Obviously airlines such as Ryanair are currently going through difficulties. I am not a shareholder in any airlines. I almost lost my shirt on British Airways, so I am currently not investing in any airlines, but it is fair to say that Ryanair has the potential to expand, as do easyJet and a number of other UK carriers. Did the Government therefore have any input into the decision that has been taken—namely, that UK carriers will be allowed to operate in the EU only at the level that is frozen to 2018 levels? Presumably what is before us would be a temporary regulation, so that if there is a deal then these regulations would not come into play. However, I am extremely concerned that in future we will be locked into the 2018 frequency levels, affecting UK travellers who desire to travel within the European Union and UK airlines that desire to expand. Is there anything the Government or this House can do to reverse that?

At the end of March, the summer season schedules will be published. What are those timetables for flights going to look like? Will they be as full as they were last summer? Will they be provisional and will they have to be revisited?

There is some toing and froing according to press reports as well, and the Government face a deadline imposed by the European Commission of seven months to decide on the make-up and composition of an EU airline. As touched on in an earlier debate, this has severe implications for this regulation—no doubt it will for other regulations as well. It has ramifications for Ryanair, which we imagine is based in Dublin but which has a large number of non-EU shareholders, but of more concern is the UK flag carrier, British Airways, which is now under the umbrella of the IAG. Are we going to face the fact that British Airways under the IAG might not be recognised as an EU carrier?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak very briefly on these two instruments—there is no way we will oppose them. The first one is on competition. One’s enthusiasm for scrutinising in depth was somewhat killed by the first sentence in paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum, which says:

“The powers in the EU regulation have never been exercised and it is unlikely that they ever will be”.


At that point, I gave up detailed examination. This boils down—if there ever is a dispute in this area—to us having moved from a big gang called the EU to a little gang called ourselves. That is why I am not keen on crashing out of the EU without an agreement, because being part of the EU is, broadly speaking, a good thing when it comes to aviation.

I have some experience of the slots issue. The trouble is that it is 30 years old, so things may have changed, but I doubt it. In a sense, the general public do not realise what an airline is. An airline is, first and foremost and overwhelmingly, a timetable—you attach airplanes, crews and marketing to it, but you start with the timetable. In fact, I chaired one of BA’s internal committees which oversaw the process of developing the timetable, and the slots are a key part of it. They work, frankly, because there is an international consensus between airlines, airports and regulating authorities that the various slot allocation committees at various airlines will be co-ordinated on a worldwide basis to make the system work. This system has been fiddled with, but it has been pretty robust for 50 years. I take comfort from the Explanatory Memorandum, which says, as it should:

“The system relating to slot allocation at UK airports will remain unchanged”,


by this SI. Providing the Minister reaffirms that, it will have my support.

We have heard some comments. These would require policy changes to meet the challenges that the comments are directed at. I remind noble Lords that the one thing you cannot do under Section 8 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is introduce any policy changes. In so far as that is the instruction to government in generating these SIs, I have to support the fact that, as far as I can tell, they have followed that instruction.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft instruments. On the slot allocation system, we are not moving to operate on our own. The current system of slot allocation, including the EU regulations, is based on guidelines produced at an international level by IATA. Those guidelines are not affected by EU exit. The system for slot allocation at UK airports will be the same after exit day as it is today, except that the role of the EU Commission will no longer apply.

The noble Lord is quite right to point out that slot reform in general has been around for some time, but there is an international consensus around this and we are considering it in our consultation strategy, Aviation 2050: The Future of UK Aviation. We set out a number of potential issues with the current process for slot allocation affecting competition in the aviation markets, such as historic grandfather rights and retiming, but there is a long-standing international system, so we will work very closely with the industry, IATA and countries with which the UK has aviation links to discuss that.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked whether current grandfather rights will be the same. Again, those will remain the same after exit day. As the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, pointed out, this does not change any policy on this and those rights that UK carriers have at EU/EEA airports will also not be affected.

On the point about the replacement of the competition regulation, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and my noble friend Lord Balfe, the UK has participated fully in the legislative process regarding the replacement regulation; it is now ready to be put to the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers, and it is intended to serve the same purpose as the current regulation—ensuring fair competition. But the powers, as I said, and as highlighted by my noble friend Lady McIntosh, have never been exercised and it is unlikely that they ever will be. The EU has reviewed the regulation, but the vast majority of our bilateral air services agreements have articles governing fair competition, and these are what we use to ensure that there is a level playing field in the operation of international air services. That is why it has not been used and we do not expect it to be used.

My noble friend Lord Balfe asked, as he did previously, about our future plans. We keep our legislation under ongoing review and will continue to do so after exit day to make sure that it meets our policy objectives and legal obligations. While we would not be under an obligation if we left without a deal, if we chose to implement the replacement regulation it would be through primary legislation. Again, my noble friend is right to point out that, of course, in the event of a no-deal exit the EU’s statute book will continue to move on and we will need to be flexible about ours.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about timetables. Airlines have already published their timetables for flights post March 2019 and tickets are being sold. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, asked about Aberdeen and the allocation of slots. As I mentioned before, slots are allocated through ACL and the EU: the Government have no role in the allocation of slots and airlines determine how they are allocated on a commercial basis. Of course, if a carrier does not use its slots 80% of the time, they will be returned to the slot pool for allocation. We have the option of PSOs if needed, but the decision about specific slots will be down to the commercial airline.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about the EU regulations. She is right to point out that they were published in December. There has been many a conversation on those, through industry and through member states. We are seeing some proposed changes, particularly on a capacity freeze, as my noble friend pointed out. I agree with her that the aviation sector is incredibly important to this country, which is why we are working hard to ensure that the industry can continue to grow sustainably. She is right that there are issues around ownership and control. We have not seen the headquarters of easyJet move but we have seen easyJet take on a Swiss air operator certificate. There is no immediate issue, as my noble friend pointed out, but, as one might expect, EU carriers are working closely with the Commission on that.

We are seeking continued participation in the European Aviation Safety Agency. That will help us continue trade as well as flights. We have played a significant role in EASA over the years and we very much hope to continue to do so. PSOs will be open to qualifying carriers—those with cabotage rights in the UK—and that has already been fixed in the operation of air services SI. Those carriers with cabotage rights could include those from the EU and other countries, so there will be the same requirements for PSOs going forward.

I hope that I have answered most of the questions. If I have not, I will follow up in writing.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

On the question of the damage to UK carriers arising from the loss of cabotage rights and freedom rights, do we have any estimate of what that will be?

[Baroness Sugg]

We are working very closely with the Commission on that. Obviously, there are implications both ways. We remain committed to working with the Commission on the regulation to avoid that. Of course, there are UK airlines which fly cabotage in the EU, in the same way that there are EU airlines flying cabotage in the UK. That is another example of how it is in our mutual best interests to ensure that we continue the market access we have today. Those discussions are ongoing and as soon as I have an update on them I will be happy to share it with noble Lords.

While we are working to agree a deal with the EU that is supported by Parliament, we need to continue our responsible preparation. Both the UK and EU have set out their intention to put in place arrangements to ensure that planes will continue to fly; none the less, these instruments are essential to ensure that we have a legal framework, particularly in respect of the allocation of airport slots, that continues to work effectively in the UK from exit day. That will help ensure the continued smooth operation of air services, irrespective of the outcome of the negotiations. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Airports Slot Allocation (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 10 December 2018 be approved.

Motion agreed.

Seaborne Freight

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport to an Urgent Question in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“In December, following a collective government decision and a procurement process involving my department and the Treasury, we contracted three shipping companies to provide additional ferry capacity as part of contingency planning for a potential no-deal EU exit. Let me start by being absolutely clear that, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the Government’s priority is to ensure the smooth operation of both the Port of Dover and the Channel Tunnel, and we are putting in place measures at the UK end to contribute to this.

However, any sensible Government plan for all eventualities. That is why we agreed contracts worth around £100 million, with the bulk of the award, £89 million, going to DFDS and Brittany Ferries to provide services across seven separate routes. Built into those agreements are options to add capacity on two other routes from those companies should they be required. This capacity could be required to guarantee the smooth flow of some key goods into the UK, particularly for the NHS. It is worth reminding the House that, in the event of no deal and constriction on the short straits, this capacity would be sold on to hauliers carrying priority goods.

In addition to the £89 million-worth of contracts with DFDS and Brittany Ferries, the Department for Transport entered into a £13.8 million contract with Seaborne Freight to provide ferry services from the Port of Ramsgate to Ostend. At the time of the award, we were fully aware of Seaborne’s status as a start-up business and the need for Seaborne to secure vessels and port user agreements to deliver a service. However, the shorter distance between the two ports meant that the route could provide us with shorter journey times and lower cost, making it a potentially attractive part of the package.

Seaborne’s proposition to the department was backed by Arklow Shipping, Ireland’s biggest and one of Europe’s largest shipping companies. For commercial reasons I have not been able to name Arklow Shipping or mention its involvement to date. But its support for the proposition from the outset, and the assurances the department received, provided confidence in the viability of this deal. Arklow confirmed to me that it intended to finance the purchase of ships and would be major shareholders in Seaborne. It also confirmed to me its view that the Seaborne plans were, ‘both viable and deliverable’. These assurances included clear evidence about the availability of suitable vessels from the continent and about the formal steps which Seaborne, via Arklow, had taken to secure these vessels.

However, releasing this information into the public domain could have significantly driven up the cost of the vessels and might even have resulted in them being removed from the market, where supply is extremely scarce. I have therefore had to refrain from saying anything publicly to date about this.

My department monitored closely the progress of Seaborne towards meeting its contractual commitments. By last week, the company had secured firm options on ships to operate on the route, and had reached provisional agreement with Ostend and was close to doing so with Ramsgate. However, late last week, despite previous assurances, Arklow Shipping suddenly and unexpectedly withdrew its backing from Seaborne. In the light of this, and after very careful assessment, I took the decision to terminate this contract. My department concluded that there were now too many major commercial issues to be resolved to enable Seaborne to establish alternative arrangements and finance in the time needed to bring ferries and ports into operation.

As I have repeatedly made clear, not a penny of taxpayers’ money has gone or will go to Seaborne. The contracts we agreed with the three ferry companies are essentially a commitment to block book tickets on additional sailings after the UK leaves the European Union, so actually we have taken a responsible decision to make sure that taxpayers’ money is properly protected.

I can confirm that the contracts with DFDS and Brittany Ferries remain on track and will provide us with valuable additional freight capacity into the UK in the event of disruption following EU exit. We also have contractual options to replace the Seaborne capacity with additional capacity on routes in the North Sea, and this is an option we will be discussing across government in the coming days.

While the focus of this Government is to secure a deal with the European Union, as a responsible Government we will continue to make proportionate contingency plans for a range of scenarios. That is the right thing to do”.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. On 8 January, my noble friend Lord Tunnicliffe was told by the Government:

“With Seaborne, the proposal was subject to technical, financial and commercial assurance”.—[Official Report, 8/1/19; col. 2127.]


What were the financial assurances received and from whom? Were the financial assurances given specific, firm, unqualified and in writing, or were they only in the form of an intention or a consideration of giving financial support, as the Statement suggests?

Why was no reference made in the Statement of 8 January to the extensive involvement on the financial side of the Irish company Arklow Shipping? The Government said it was for commercial reasons. What commercial reasons were so important that they overruled the public interest and transparency on a Brexit issue? Perhaps instead it was because the Secretary of State was so determined to have the involvement at all costs of a British shipping company, to avoid the embarrassment of having to rely exclusively on European companies to help us out of a no-deal mess, that he reached this questionable agreement with Seaborne Freight without competitive tendering and then knowingly did not disclose in the Statement that even British Seaborne Freight was dependent on financial backing materialising from an EU-based Irish company? If that is not the case, why was the agreement not reached directly with Arklow Shipping, one of Europe’s largest shipping companies and clearly the intended real power behind Seaborne Freight?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we have listed the checks carried out as due diligence on the operational suitability of all the bids submitted as part of the department’s procurement of additional freight capacity. They were director searches and basic counterparty financial solvency checks, with technical support provided by Mott MacDonald. Two high-level technical reviews were completed. The first related to the ferry tender and submission compliance within the DfT evaluation process and the second to the technical feasibility of the tendered ferry intervention. Financial analysis was carried out by Deloitte to assess the financial robustness of operators, and price benchmarking by Deloitte to examine the prices offered to DfT in comparison with market rates to enable the assessment of value for money as part of the procurement process.

I explained earlier in the Statement the reasoning behind not mentioning Arklow before. It was for commercial reasons. It would have adversely affected the cost of ships in order to procure the contract. We contracted directly with Seaborne because it was the company that had been working for over a year to provide the service between Ramsgate and Ostend.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, we now know that the Government’s own estimate is of an 87% reduction in cross-channel trade for three to six months if there is no deal. Given that the whole point of Brexit no-deal preparations is to minimise risk, why did the Department for Transport approve the contract with Seaborne when it was known that there was a high risk that the company would not be able to fulfil the contract? When we spoke about this on 8 January, the Minister gave me solemn assurances that the financial backing for Seaborne was good. How did that situation change so dramatically overnight?

What the Minister did not tell me on 8 January was who will pay for the dredging of Ramsgate harbour. The Minister told us today that no public money will be put forward to Seaborne, but who will pay for the dredging of the harbour, given that we now know that no company could provide ships in time for a no-deal Brexit to use that harbour?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we went ahead with the contract with Seaborne on the understanding that it was a start-up company and did not currently provide the service. As I explained, this was a shorter and therefore cheaper route, which was why we were keen to make use of it. But we have enough capacity in the remaining contracts for prioritised goods.

The DfT is not party to the dredging work at Ramsgate, but of course we will continue conversations with a number of stakeholders, including Thanet Council, over any plans to re-establish ferry services at the Port of Ramsgate.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the dredging started five weeks ago on 3 January, so accounts must have been submitted or Thanet Council will be aware of what the bill is. Have the Government been told how much that bill is? Will the Government pay that bill at the end of the day? How much is the bill to Slaughter and May, Deloitte and Mott MacDonald, to which the Minister referred, for the assessment of Seaborne’s business plans? Finally, in the Statement on 8 January, the Minister told us:

“We are concerned that in the event of no deal, there will be disruption at the Port of Dover … which is why we are making these contingency plans”.—[Official Report, 8/1/19; col. 2128.]


What replacement contingency plans are now being considered to deal with the disruption at Dover, which the Minister herself predicted?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, the DfT is not party to the dredging work. I am not able to comment on the value of contracts held by entities other than my department. Dredging of the port is the responsibility of the relevant port authority and continues to form part of the ongoing discussions. As I said, the DfT will continue conversations with a number of stakeholders, including Thanet Council, over plans to re-establish the ferry service.

On the money paid around the Seaborne contract, the contract awarded to Seaborne was part of a broader procurement exercise to secure additional freight capacity after Brexit, and as part of that the three contracts were awarded. Extensive third-party due diligence was carried out on these so a cost would have been attached to the process even if we had never entered into an agreement with Seaborne.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has told us that substantial commercial due diligence was done on this deal, yet the Secretary of State’s Statement says clearly says that Seaborne,

“was backed by Arklow shipping”.

It goes on to say that Arklow offered support for the proposition, and finally that Arklow,

“provided confidence in the viability of this deal”.

Will the Minister explain more clearly than she has so far what the backing was, what the support was and what the assurances were?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I take this opportunity to remind the House that no taxpayer money has been transferred to the company and the Government stand by their robust due diligence carried out on Seaborne Freight. Perhaps it would be helpful if I read out some specific reassurances that Arklow provided to us. It said:

“Arklow Shipping has been working with Seaborne for twelve months in connection with Seaborne’s proposals to develop new freight services between the UK and continental Europe. Arklow Shipping is therefore familiar with Seaborne’s agreement with Her Majesty’s Government to provide additional freight capacity … In support of the current proposals to develop the shipping route … Arklow Shipping intends to provide equity finance for the purchase of both vessels and an equity stake within Seaborne which will be the operating entity of this project … Seaborne is a firm that brings together experienced and capable shipping professionals … I consider that Seaborne’s plans to deliver a new service to facilitate trade following from the UK’s departure from the EU are both viable and deliverable”.


That is from Arklow Shipping, which, as I said, is Ireland’s largest shipping provider and one of Europe’s biggest. That letter has now been published on the GOV.UK website.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I should like to say a word on behalf of the trade union of ex-Secretaries of State for Transport, of whom there are several in your Lordships’ House. This case really confirms that the portfolio is a no-win situation because everybody is a critic and nobody is your friend. But in this particular case, are we to understand therefore that when the contract was first made, although it could not be revealed for commercial reasons, it was in fact being made to a combine that had dozens of ferries and enormous ferry experience? I know it had to be cancelled later when Arklow pulled out, but I am waiting to hear a flicker of recognition from those shoot-from-the-hip critics who rushed forward to criticise at the original time when they did not know the full facts. Would it not have been wiser to become a little more informed before the usual crowd gathered to criticise the Secretary of State?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank my noble friend for those comments. The contract with Seaborne was specifically designed in recognition of the risk posed by contracting with a new operator and it protected the taxpayer, as it was always designed to do. As I said, no taxpayers’ money has been paid to Seaborne. My noble friend is quite right to point out the assurances that we received from Arklow Shipping. Noble Lords would expect a responsible Government to ensure that we are able to deliver capacity for critical goods in the event of no deal and that is what we are doing.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

May I press my noble friend?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Berkeley]

The Minister seeks to blame Arklow for this withdrawal, but the Irish Times says something rather different. It states that Arklow was never “a backer”, did not have “any formal agreement” with Seaborne and was not “a contract partner”. Who is telling the truth?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the contract was with Seaborne Freight. I have read out extensively the reassurances provided by Arklow, which are set out in the letter published on GOV.UK. The contract, however, was with Seaborne and we entered into that given the reassurances that we had.

Parking on Pavements

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to prevent motor vehicles parking on pavements.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, in Greater London there is already a general ban on pavement parking. Across the rest of England, local authorities can implement local bans using traffic regulation orders. In recent months the Department for Transport has carried out a review of pavement parking, gathering evidence on the effectiveness of current legislation and the case for reform. That review is now complete and we are considering its findings.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Do the Government accept the views of Guide Dogs, the RNIB, the Living Streets charity campaign, all wheelchair users and all parents pushing a pushchair along the pavements, as well as all the local authorities that have to repair them after they have been damaged, that legislation should move to a default position, as is the case in London, of no parking on pavements unless designated otherwise, rather than just discourage- ment, which is currently the case?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, a recent survey by the RNIB of more than 500 blind and partially sighted people found that 95% of them had collided with a street obstacle in the past three months. A vehicle parked on a pavement was the single most reported obstacle, so I do agree with the noble Lord that pavement parking is a problem. There are calls for the Government to introduce a law that bans all pavement parking across England, and the roads Minister is keen to make the process as simple as possible. However, before seeking new primary legislation we are evaluating the effectiveness of the current legislation. We want to understand the issues that have prevented councils taking action already.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that this is a curious Alice in Wonderland situation, where pedestrians have to go into the road because of cars that are already on the pavement? Some 69% of the public and 78% of local councillors support a new law. Are they right?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we have heard a lot of concern from interested groups, the general public, those with disabilities, the elderly and, of course, mothers with pushchairs about the incidence of pavement parking outside London. We have gathered evidence to try to understand the effectiveness of the current legislation. We are considering those findings carefully and we will make an announcement in due course.

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, I recently heard about someone who was knocked down on a pavement by a powered mobility scooter. She fell and broke her wrist. Does the noble Baroness agree that there is a need for tighter regulation of vehicles on pavements?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, this is something that we are looking at. With the advent of new technology we are seeing new vehicles on the pavement. That will be one of our considerations when we look at the law on this.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

My Lords, the Traffic Management Act 2004 imposed a duty on local authorities to manage their own road networks. The same Act also provided for traffic officers to be appointed to enforce these powers. However, Part 6 of the Act, which makes provision for penalties, has never been enacted. That leaves local authorities in a position where they have duties which they cannot carry out because they have no revenue streams from penalty notices to pay for enforcement. Will the noble Baroness look carefully at the Act, which, as I say, has never been properly brought into effect, but which does contain the powers that she is talking about? It would enable much more efficient management of both highways and pavements.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, since the Traffic Management Act 2004 came into force, more than 93% of local authorities in England have taken up the powers. On the specific point about enforcement, I will have to follow it up with the department and write to the noble Lord.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will be aware that her colleague Jo Johnson wrote a circular letter in the autumn to local authorities, praying in aid—about penalties for persons committing nuisances while riding on footpaths—that people shall not,

“tether any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle, on any highway, so as to suffer or permit the tethered animal to be thereon”.

This came from the Highway Act 1835. Is it not about time this legislation was updated?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I was interested to find that cycling on a footway is also an offence under Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835. Obviously, it has been updated with various pieces of secondary legislation. As I say, we are looking carefully at the issues around vehicles on pavements and will respond in due course.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that this practice can be lethal because of the glass and steel grids on pavements that allow light to underground structures? If a lorry goes over them, the whole thing can collapse and crash down and would kill anyone underneath.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I know that street furniture, including lamp-posts, also inhibits people in confidently navigating their way around the streets. Pavement parking can cause damage to paving stones and perhaps glass objects—so we are looking carefully at the evidence we have gathered.

Railways: Dawlish

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress has been made in improving the resilience of the railway line at Dawlish towards south Devon and Cornwall since the two-month disruption beginning on 5 February 2014.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, Network Rail has worked to develop long-term solutions to make the railway at Dawlish and Teignmouth more resilient to extreme weather, engaging an expert team of tunnel, cliff and railway engineers. This is part of a £15 million investment provided by the Government. The first phase of work to protect the sea wall began in November, with essential repairs now completed to four breakwaters. Following engagement with local stakeholders in autumn last year, Network Rail has now submitted plans for a new, stronger sea wall at Dawlish.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, and am sure the House will wish to congratulate Network Rail on the way it recovered from that terrible accident five years ago where the track was waving in the air with nothing underneath it. However, is the Minister aware that already this winter services have been disrupted on 10 occasions—sometimes because the tide is just over the tracks and the tracks are buried? One solution might be for the Secretary of State to play King Canute, but I am sure he would not want to do that. The alternative is to encourage Network Rail with some funding to go ahead with the issues that the Minister mentioned. Also, will she start looking at the process of reopening the Okehampton-Tavistock line, to provide a better service to Plymouth and Cornwall for when the line by the sea is disrupted?

[Baroness Sugg]

I join the noble Lord in congratulating Network Rail and the orange army who did such a great job of recovery after the storms more than five years ago. We have been clear that ongoing investment in the south-west transport infrastructure is a key priority, and we remain determined to find a permanent solution for Dawlish. As I said, £15 million of funding has been made available, and world-leading engineers have been carrying out detailed assessments. Network Rail is making good progress on its plans, and we are considering them carefully.

On the noble Lord’s point about the regular Okehampton service, we are working closely with the local councils on that. We responded to the future of the Great Western franchise consultation last August, and are looking into what scope of work will be needed to reinstate regular services on that route.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is not just the track that has been a problem, but the trains? Does she agree that the wretched Voyager trains used on this stretch of line are completely unsuitable for the journeys they undertake daily? Cancellations and short running take place every week, and as the 40 year-old British Rail-built high-speed trains are now coming off lease, why do the Government not modernise them and replace the Voyagers with properly built trains that would be far more comfortable for travel between Aberdeen and Penzance than the toy trains there are at present?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to point to the issues we have had on that track: when there are high waves and sea spray close to the track the Voyager trains cannot run, as they have brake resistors on top. CrossCountry is working to assess whether there might be engineering solutions that would enable the Voyager class to operate through Dawlish in those challenging conditions. We are also looking into providing further additional rolling stock, but the Government and franchise operators are investing heavily in new, improved trains.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, the economies of west Devon, Plymouth and Cornwall rely very much on this line. Last autumn a six-foot hole appeared under the track in the Dawlish area, so this is far from solved. Yet, despite Devon and Cornwall—regrettably—being stuffed with Tory MPs there seems to be no real action at all. Can the Minister give us a date when the fundamental structure, whether it is the line that the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, refers to or the sea wall, will be completed? When will something be done?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, this train line has been a long-standing problem ever since it was opened in 1846—that year trains failed to run along it. We are working closely on that and although I am not able to give the noble Lord a date, we are making significant progress. Network Rail has submitted a plan that we are looking at carefully and we hope to make an announcement on it very shortly.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

First, in very bad weather, as has been said, the Voyager trains used by the CrossCountry franchise are often unable to operate west of Exeter, as electrics on the roofs of the trains are adversely affected by salt water coming over the sea wall in the Dawlish area. Will the new Hitachi trains being introduced on the line also be adversely affected by salt water coming over the sea wall? Secondly, Network Rail’s plan for preventing sea damage is, as has been said, to build a new, higher sea wall, in respect of which it has made a planning submission to the relevant local authority, with the knowledge of the Secretary of State. We know the problem is only going to get worse as sea levels rise, so what happens if that planning application is declined? What is plan B? Or is there no plan B?

[Baroness Sugg]

The noble Lord is right to point to the issues we have with CrossCountry trains. The new intercity express trains on GWR were also affected by weather along the Devon coast last week, so we are working very closely with Hitachi to find a solution. As the noble Lord pointed out, there is a planning submission in play and, as I said, we are absolutely determined to come up with a long-term solution to this problem.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister clarify whether she thinks the only long-term solution is to have an alternative line from Exeter to Plymouth? Otherwise, we are perpetually trying to put right something that she acknowledges has been inappropriate since 1848.

[Baroness Sugg]

Since 1846. The case for reopening the former route between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock was assessed by Network Rail in 2014. It found that there was not then a case for reopening this route in its entirety. We are doing work on that: Great Western Railway has been asked to develop proposals to reintroduce regular services between Exeter and Okehampton; and Devon County Council is progressing work to develop the case for reinstating the railway between Bere Alston and Tavistock. Delivery of these schemes may enable the full reopening of the former route in the future, subject to a viable business case being demonstrated.

Lifeboats: Ceredigion

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 4th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what the impact will be on the coastguard of the RNLI’s decision to downgrade the all-weather lifeboats capacity in New Quay, Ceredigion.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the RNLI is an independent organisation that declares its lifeboats available to Her Majesty’s Coastguard. It determines how and where it deploys the resources that it has available. Based on historical incident data and the outputs of the RNLI’s risk-assessed five-year review, we do not anticipate that its decision to replace the all-weather lifeboat with an Atlantic 85 vessel at New Quay will have an impact on HM Coastguard’s capability to co-ordinate search and rescue in Cardigan Bay.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I, too, hesitate to criticise such a respected charity, but the replacement of the all-weather lifeboat with an Atlantic 85 inshore vessel, which cannot be launched in stormy conditions exceeding force 7, leaves a gap of 63 nautical miles in all-weather search and rescue provision. This and the alleged lack of a proper, open consultation with any local stakeholders concerned with sea safety in Cardigan Bay are a matter of grave concern to the local community. Will my noble friend the Minister intervene and ask the RNLI to publish its evidence and perhaps also to review its decision?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the RNLI’s decision was underpinned by extensive research of incident reports as well as information gathered in face-to-face meetings and workshops at the lifeboat station both before and after the coast review visits, to ensure that local knowledge and concerns were considered. The decision is a significant investment by the RNLI in the area—which of course we are very grateful for—with new, faster boats at all three RNLI stations. The RNLI view is that that is the optimal combination for future life-saving in the area. It has shared a 30-page extract of the report with the lifeboat operations manager, and I understand that it is in dialogue with a campaign group to ensure it has the appropriate information.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former Lord Lieutenant of the county and my wife is from a long line of New Quay sailors. The Government have paid £3.5 million since 2014 to increase capacity and resilience in rescue, so they cannot wash their hands entirely to the RNLI. Since it is proposed that all-weather lifeboats will be as far away as Pwllheli and Barmouth, will the new inshore lifeboat at New Quay diminish capability? Will there be a gap in safety provision in Cardigan Bay in severe weather?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord is right to point out the change in provision. Three 17-knot Mersey class all-weather lifeboats are being replaced with two Shannon lifeboats at Pwllheli and Barmouth and there will be a smaller but faster lifeboat at New Quay. This was based on a risk-based review that looked at the entire area and the RNLI’s decision to replace the all-weather lifeboat was, as I said, underpinned by extensive research. It is convinced that this is the optimal amount of resource for the area.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I declare a personal interest as someone with long-standing family connections in the area and as a supporter of this campaign. The RNLI of course does wonderful work, but I am afraid that in this instance it has been totally lacking in transparency with the people of New Quay about the reasons for its decision. Despite what the Minister said, independent research shows that in severe weather conditions—force 7 in daylight and force 6 by night—it does increase the risk. There is a 70-mile gap, as I understand it, between the nearest all-weather lifeboats and it simply takes that much longer to get there. Should not an organisation such as the RNLI that depends on trust be more open about its decisions and in this instance look again at the increased risk of this decision?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank the noble and right reverend Lord for his question. I know of his long-standing interest in the area. The RNLI, as I said, has shared a 30-page extract of the report and is working closely with a campaign group. I understand that the campaign group is made up of passionate people who want to ensure that they have the optimal provision in the area. As I said, along with the replacement new boat, the all-weather lifeboats in the surrounding area will be replaced with much faster ones. There is also a new helicopter base in St Athan, and the new boats, the helicopter and the increase in lifeguarding on the coast will not only maintain but improve life-saving provision in the area.

[Baroness Humphreys (LD)]

The RNLI’s decision to move the all-weather facility from New Quay has led to huge public disquiet in the area—an area where people understand the important role fisheries play in providing a livelihood for commercial fishing and angling vessels. They also understand the danger to the fishermen who brave all weathers. What assessment has the noble Baroness made of the importance of the all-weather lifeboat to the safety of fishermen in Cardigan Bay?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the RNLI carries out a coastal safety review every five years. It is a very extensive review based on extensive research; it considers all the rescue records and looks at all the reports of launches and incidents carried out by the lifeboat stations. It has concluded that services by the New Quay RNLI all-weather lifeboat could have been carried out safely and effectively by an Atlantic 85 inshore lifeboat, supported by the new, faster lifeboats at neighbouring stations if required. I understand that people who have long experience in this area locally are concerned about it. The RNLI continues to have conversations with them and will ensure that they are given the appropriate information.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister was asked just now what assessment she had made of the need in the area. She told us what assessment the RNLI had made. She referred to the campaigners as being passionate. We can also say that the RNLI is passionate, because day in and day out volunteers are out there saving people’s lives and collecting and raising the funds to do so. This is a difficult decision that has been made. What engagement do the Government have with the RNLI to ensure that the interests of the public are taken into account, so that the Government can assure themselves that the work it is doing takes public safety into account? That may allay some fears of those who are concerned about this decision, or who may be in a position to provide funding so that they do not have to make this decision.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, lifeboat provision in the UK is delivered by independent charitable organisations that declare their lifeboats available to Her Majesty’s Coastguard. As I said, we are very grateful for their work. It is the responsibility of the organisations to decide on the specific operational capacity they consider appropriate, but of course the MCA works closely with the RNLI on the coastal review. The noble Baroness was quite right to pay tribute to the scale of volunteers in this area—it is extremely impressive. The Coastguard Rescue Service is made up of approximately 3,500 volunteers; the RNLI has 5,000 volunteer lifeboat crew; and, as the noble Baroness said, there are more than 23,000 volunteer community fundraisers. They all contribute to providing the excellent service on our coasts.

Ship and Port Security (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 21 November 2018 be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 23 January.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a very quick question on this one, to do with air pollution and the Merchant Shipping (Prevention of Air Pollution from Ships) Regulations 2008. This basically moves the responsibility for ensuring minimum air pollution from ships from the European Economic Area to the United Kingdom. I do not want to go into any detail at all, except to say that I hope the Minister can confirm the statement that has been made many times before by Ministers in this House—that when we leave there will be no reduction in environmental standards. I am particularly interested in:

“In Schedule 2 (engines excluded from regulation 21) … before ‘the European Economic Area’ insert ‘the United Kingdom or’”.


I hope the Minister can confirm that there will be no reduction in environmental standards from this change.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

Again, I thank noble Lords for those questions. These regulations will make appropriate amendments to the existing ship and port security legislation, and will ensure that the current regime remains operable following the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. I confirm that there will be no reduction in environmental standards, and that this SI is needed only in the event of no deal.

Motion agreed.

Ship Recycling (Facilities and Requirements for Hazardous Materials on Ships) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 13 December 2018 be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 23 January.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I seek an assurance from the Minister. I promised her after our discussion in the Moses Room that I would look at Hansard carefully to see what she had said in response to my questions. I regret that she did not address my concerns. Although the letter that I received this morning attempted to do so, it basically conflicts with the Explanatory Memorandum.

Again, this is a no-deal SI. I keep hoping that the House of Commons will rescue us from this dystopian nightmare, but it looks again today as if it might not do it, so I accept that we have to prepare for this and I do not seek to interrupt that process. Unlike the three SIs that we have just approved, this SI involves new policy. As your Lordships will be aware, ship recycling is a very dangerous process. If done without high levels of safeguard, it can be dangerous to both the environment and the individuals involved in it.

To tackle this, EU regulations have created a list of approved facilities for ship recycling, not all of which are in the EU—the Minister told us last week that some facilities are in Turkey and the USA. The approval process for those facilities involves inspection, which is complex and expensive, particularly for those outside the EU.

Like the other no-deal SIs, this one removes references to the EU and gives substitute powers to the Secretary of State. However, it goes further. Paragraph 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum makes it clear that the UK list would initially include all facilities on the EU list. However, it also,

“establishes a new procedure allowing ship recycling facilities worldwide to apply for inclusion onto the new UK approved list”.

Given that there are some very dubious practices in ship recycling in some parts of the world and that it would be very costly for us as an individual country acting alone to inspect and constantly police standards in a yard on the other side of the world, I regard this as a worrying new policy.

I can see that the policy is in the buccaneering spirit of the Brexiteers—“We can do this more cheaply. There are easier ways of doing this. Cut some costs”—but it could mean a dangerous lapse in standards and controls. The Minister assured me this morning that it would not lead to a lapse in standards, so my purpose in speaking is to invite her to reassure us on the Floor of the House that the Government are not looking to expand their list in the way in which the Explanatory Memorandum states, and will take a precautionary approach so as to maintain the highest environmental standards.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased that the noble Lord feels a lot better for having got that out of his system. I absolutely agree with him about the excellence of the civil servants in my department—and across Whitehall—who are working incredibly hard to ensure that these statutory instruments are correct and that they are in place so that we have a functioning statute book in the event of no deal. I share the noble Lord’s desire to reach agreement on the withdrawal arrangements. I am sure that we will be watching the other place with close interest today and on Valentine’s Day. I should probably leave it there.

This SI will ensure that the legal framework for ship recycling remains legally operable when the UK leaves the EU. It will make amendments to the EU ship recycling regulation and three Commission implementing decisions. I hope that I will be able to provide the noble Baroness and the noble Lord with assurance on our standards. All UK ship-recycling facilities with a valid permit are eligible to be included in a new UK list. That list will also include all the non-UK ship-recycling facilities on the European list when we exit the EU. We expect those two lists to remain closely aligned with each other. In effect, any changes to the European list after we leave the EU will almost certainly be mirrored on the UK list. As a consequence—

[Lord Berkeley]

Does the list include places such as Bangladesh, India and other places outside the EU or the UK? They are major centres for ship recycling and I am sure that many noble Lords will have seen the revolting conditions that people have to work in to cut up old ships on the beaches.

[Baroness Sugg]

It does include some non-EU countries. I am afraid I cannot find the list in my files, but I will write to the noble Lord to confirm which countries are on it. The EU has very high standards of recycling and we will continue to match them after we leave.

The Secretary of State reserves the right to change the list. The power to add new facilities to it is included so that it does not become static. If we did not include this power, it would not be possible without primary legislation to add ship-recycling facilities to the UK list and to mirror what the EU does on its list. Over time, that could reduce the choices that UK ships have, compared with their EU counterparts. Because we will be retaining the standards and criteria for approving ship-recycling facilities used under the current EU regulation, the UK and EU lists will continue to be compiled to the same high standards. The powers in this instrument cannot be used to lower the standards of ship recycling.

If the EU changes its criteria, we will of course consider revising ours along similar lines. We do not think that this will happen for a few years, until the ship recycling regulation—which is fairly new—beds down. The Commission is committed to reviewing the EU regulation 18 months before the Hong Kong convention comes into force. That could lead to amendments to the criteria for ship-recycling facilities on the European list to align it more closely with that convention. If this happens, we will liaise closely with the EU, as our two regimes are virtually identical. Again, any change to those criteria would need to be done through regulation.

The EU regime is one of the strictest in the world. We are committed to maintaining those high standards, regardless of our membership of the European Union. I am happy to confirm that there are no—

[Baroness Randerson]

I appreciate the Minister’s attempts to reassure us. I ask her to go back and look at paragraph 7.3 yet again to see whether the Explanatory Memorandum needs to be recast, because both I and the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, have quoted things from it which give a different impression of government policy. I am relieved to hear what the Minister has to say. I accept it totally, but there is a gap between what she is saying to us here today and what the Explanatory Memorandum appears to suggest. That could lead to confusion in the future.

[Baroness Sugg]

I have read the Explanatory Memorandum a number of times. I do not think it is contradictory, but I acknowledge that perhaps further reassurance could go into it. I will certainly follow up in writing and place copies in the Libraries of both Houses to provide that reassurance.

No facilities on the UK list are in Bangladesh, India or Pakistan, but I will send the noble Lord the full list.

As I was saying, the EU regime is currently one of the strictest in the world. It has incredibly high standards, and we are committed to maintaining them regardless of our membership of the EU.

Motion agreed.