Middle East and North Africa

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, this has been a vital debate, and I am glad that the Government agreed to table it. I know that this required some distinct encouragement from my noble friends, including my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness. It is surely not by chance that the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, chose this important debate for his valedictory speech. I thank him for his life’s contribution to public service, not least in this House.

Contributions have been of a very high order. The Minister laid out clearly the Government’s position in her wide-ranging speech at the beginning of the debate, and I thank her for that. I hope that when she replies, she will do her very best, as I am sure she will, to answer all the main questions and themes that have been raised, with the possible exception of the most technical questions. It is less useful in terms of how this House operates to receive a letter some time later, copied though it might be to the Lords Library, responding to a debate. It is far better and more transparent to have the answers in Hansard, easily accessible. I am sure that she and her wonderful officials will endeavour to assist us in this regard.

High on the news agenda this summer have been those whom some have termed “swarms” of migrants or “marauding” migrants: the terrible scenes of overcrowded boats plying their way across the Mediterranean. We were shown the appalling sight of the little boy lying face down on the Turkish beach. I could hardly bear to look at him, or his smiling face or that of his brother in earlier photos. I think of his poor mother, who could not swim and did not want to take a boat at all. How desperate she must have been. I think of the Canadians who refused his family asylum.

We have to put a human face on refugees, to recognise that they are as us and our own children. Our common humanity was emphasised so effectively by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby and my noble friend Lord Roberts. The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, in her extraordinary speech, injected great passion and urgency into this debate. I hope that we have now moved beyond the use of words such as “swarm” and “marauding”, but are we seeing an effective answer to a hugely pressing crisis?

We know that the refugees are from war-torn and desperately fragile states: above all, at the moment, Syria, but also, as the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, has pointed out, Eritrea, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq and Afghanistan. My noble friend Lady Tonge and the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, emphasised the particular plight of Palestinians, so many of whom have spent their lives in camps. The people traffickers do not care about those whom they traffic. Many die and many women are raped. Supporting development in fragile states has never been more important. In 2004, the UN High-Level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change—of which the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, was a notable member—rightly pointed out in its report, A More Secure World: Our Shared Responsibility, that, as I often quote:

“Development and security are inextricably linked. A more secure world is only possible if poor countries are given a real chance to develop. Extreme poverty and infectious diseases threaten many people directly, but they also provide a fertile breeding-ground for other threats, including civil conflict”.

Is that not crystal clear today?

Under the coalition Government, the UK finally met its commitment to spend 0.7% of GNI on aid. Liberal Democrats Michael Moore in the Commons and Jeremy Purvis—my noble friend Lord Purvis—in the Lords then ensured that this was put into law, with Royal Assent on the last day of the last Session. I am very glad that we did that but the UN statement also speaks of the necessity of countries working together for international action, with engagement through the UN not only on long-term development and security but also, in this instance, on seeking a political solution in the Middle East. The noble Lords, Lord Hannay and Lord Desai, and others made very clear the necessity for such international action, which is so lacking in the United Kingdom’s approach. The noble Baroness, Lady Helic, knows a thing or two about conflict and refugees. She rightly argued that the current policy is not working and that the UK must engage more at the UN. However, the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Williams, have possibly different views on military action in this instance. My noble friend Lord Greaves showed how complex this is.

Right on our doorstep, are we working with our EU partners? Clearly not. Here we have been very laggardly, as so many have made clear. The noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, demanded an answer. We must hear that. To tackle the crisis in Europe and the war in Syria, it is critical that the UK works with our EU partners so that we play a central role as decisions are made. The Government’s total reluctance to do so not only damages our reputation but limits our ability to shape the EU reaction. It limits what we are doing to help those fleeing the terrible situation in Syria, as well as jeopardises our later campaign on the EU referendum, as my noble friend Lord Ashdown also emphasised. How can the Government thus endanger our future, as well as those who are in this plight? Various noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Ashdown and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, strongly suggested that this is simply to manage Conservative Back-Benchers. We need to lead, not reluctantly follow.

We welcome the increase in resettlement of refugees from camps in Syria and the region, but it is too little too late and does nothing to tackle the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Europe. As my noble friends Lord Roberts, Lady Tonge and Lady Hussein- Ece made clear, this may involve only just over 1,000 families a year. It should not be an either/or choice. We clearly need to tackle both problems. Interestingly, my noble friend Lord Ashdown and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby emphasised not only the need for generosity but also the economic benefit we could gain from the skills the Syrians have to offer.

The Government should opt in to the relocation programme proposed by the EU Commission president. Can the Minister assure us that the UK is able to opt in to take refugees who arrive in the UK, despite what her noble friend Lady Stowell said the other day? That includes accepting a small number of refugees who are already in Europe, but also seeking better ways to manage the EU’s external borders and strengthen the EU asylum process.

On the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, there are rules for working out what proportion each country might take, based on a number of criteria that he mentioned, as my noble friend Lady Hussein-Ece said. Not being involved means that we play no part in devising those rules. As we know, the conflict in Syria has affected the whole country and led to millions fleeing it and millions more being internally displaced. Many of those fleeing have ended up in the refugee camps in the surrounding region. As my noble friend Lady Tonge pointed out, the UK under the coalition Government became the second biggest humanitarian aid donor in the region, and I am very proud of that. I am glad that this is continuing. We know only too well how destabilising it is to have millions of refugees in the fragile countries around. We must do our best to assist them. As she will know, we took precious few into the UK from those camps and, at first, the Prime Minister would take none. It was only with pressure from his deputy, Nick Clegg, that that policy changed at all.

Here I wish to address the aid budget. I note what the Chancellor said about using the aid budget more directly in the UK's interest, which has a rather chilling sound. As the UN High-Level Panel made clear, development is important for global stability, affecting us all; it is not something that it makes sense to view only as involving limited UK immediate interests. I note what has been said about using ODA for refugees in the UK, and I realise that it is permissible, but it is a concern. Can the Minister tell me when the aid budget was first used to support refugees in the UK? Can she tell me how much was used each year in the last five years to support refugees in the UK? Does she accept that the ODA budget cannot be used to integrate refugees in a donor country’s economy? What are the implications if they are to be so integrated? I do not find an adequate answer either in DfID’s annual reports or accounting to the OECD. Can she tell me what happens to the support for refugees after the first year has concluded? What will be done to ensure that they do not fall on hard-pressed local authority budgets after that first year?

The UK has a long history of supporting the most vulnerable, and reference has been made to what happened in the Second World War, when of course we accepted 10,000 Kindertransport children, one of whom is a Member of this House. So what are we doing now?

This has been an extremely important debate, and I am glad that pressure secured it. The Government have rightly been commended for their action in supporting refugees in the region—but, from all sides, the Government have been condemned for inaction in inadequately supporting refugees in the United Kingdom and for inaction internationally, and especially for inaction in the appalling inability to work with the EU and to help to lead in the EU to resolve this crisis, with a terrible effect on refugees themselves but also in terms of our very place in Europe. Why should our European partners help us to win that referendum when it comes down the track? There are very big questions here about our shared global future. I am not optimistic that we will get those answers tonight, but I can but hope.

Sub-Saharan Africa: Healthcare

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 16th July 2015 Grand Committee

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, for securing this important debate and introducing it so effectively. The last time we debated this issue in the Lords was, I think, in a debate put down by the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, at that time my noble friend, and I was fortunate to be the DfID Minster replying. In that position, I was privy to the absolutely outstanding efforts made by DfID to counter this epidemic in Sierra Leone.

Ebola illustrated, in the most appalling way, how we are all interconnected. Not only did we have a moral responsibility to respond to what was happening in Sierra Leone, a country in the development of which we played such a key role after its civil war, but it was and is in our self-interest to do so. We are all so interconnected globally that an epidemic such as this can easily move across continents, as we have heard, out of control. When that patient arrived and died in Nigeria, the world was fortunate that a nurse, in effect, gave her life ensuring that this patient was not allowed to leave the clinic, with appalling consequences for the nurse herself but astonishing protection for the people of Nigeria and the wider world. Indeed, they used the system for polio, but it was helped by the first case being received in the private clinic that it was. Too easily, the epidemic could have reached widely round the world.

We were lucky too, in my view, that we had in DfID, as Chief Scientific Officer, the outstanding Chris Whitty, from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. There could not have been a better person to set about organising the UK’s comprehensive response to Ebola in Sierra Leone.

While the US concentrated on Liberia and France led in Guinea, work was undertaken at every level. Clinics were set up locally where patients could be identified, and those with Ebola sent to dedicated units. Lab facilities were improved to speed up diagnosis. Work with anthropologists was undertaken to work out practices which enabled those who had lost loved ones to have rites of passage which did not endanger all mourners. The development of treatments and vaccines was expedited. As my noble friend Lady Walmsley said, NHS volunteers were identified and trained to work as safely as possible in Sierra Leone. I pay tribute to them and to UK-Med.

When I answered the debate earlier this year, we seemed to be within striking distance of ending this epidemic. We seemed to have done so in Liberia. I would like to know whether the cases in the three countries are traceable to other known cases, or whether some do not fall into this category. What are the implications in either case?

The World Health Organization has rightly been criticised for its tardy response, lack of resources and inappropriate personnel in the region and elsewhere. What progress can be reported? What have we learned in terms of surveillance, early warning and response systems? How do we identify and respond to potential crises in future?

The Government of Sierra Leone were understandably keen to be supported as they rebuilt. Are we ensuring that such rebuilding is fully transparent and accountable? There was huge concern that other patients —for example, those with malaria—did not come to clinics lest they were infected with Ebola, and that vaccination and treatment for other diseases fell away. Will the noble Baroness give an estimate of the associated mortality and tell us what is being done to address this?

There has been huge concern, as others have mentioned, that children spent a long time out of school. What is being down to ensure that they make up for lost time? What is being done to support orphans, who have been mentioned? How are we best supporting women and girls, given that they are especially vulnerable, as my noble friend Lady Walmsley pointed out? The International Development Select Committee and others expressed concern about the weakness of the health systems that allowed the epidemic to take hold, and concern that these should now be strengthened. Like the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, I want to know what is being done to address that area. It is one thing to intervene in a humanitarian crisis like this, with popular support, but it is quite another to sustain long-term investment. What is the financial size of the commitment being made by DfID?

I would appreciate an update on treatments and vaccines. It was excellent that in the crisis, because of the work after 9/11, particularly by the Americans, there was some progress which could be built on. I would like to know how the vaccines from the UK, especially from the Lister Institute, have been faring. There was the proposal, of course, that we should take a shared public risk in developing these. Clearly, on the one hand, this could be an opportunity for drug companies to avoid their responsibilities. On the other hand, there could be a public good involved. The Minister’s noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord O'Neill, has discussed such public pooling of risk in relation to the development of antibiotic-resistant drugs. Where are we in relation to Ebola treatments and vaccines? How do we protect from abuse by the pharmaceutical industry in this area? Are there proposals for delivering more rapidly clinical trials in this field? How might production be scaled up and adequate delivery put in place? What work is being carried out to assess other potential disease threats which may quickly cross borders in our globalised world?

I came across one bright note in relation to Ebola. Sierra Leone has a high incidence of FGM. From what I understand, in the civil war this stopped. It re-started thereafter. I heard that it stopped again in the Ebola epidemic. It seems to me to be vital—this is what I urged and I want to know exactly what we are now doing—that we build on that change. We cannot allow things simply to return to normal. If we can change people’s burial practices, surely we can, and must, address this terrible practice as well.

I would also like to ask what lessons have been learned about the deployment of NHS staff. UK-Med seemed to do a remarkable job. Like my noble friend Lady Walmsley, I pay tribute to it. I am sure that it will be learning lessons, which we will need to apply in other humanitarian emergencies. I look forward to the Minister’s response and pay tribute again to the astonishing efforts of those right across DfID, but especially Chris Whitty, Tony Redmond from Manchester and George Turkington and their teams, for their tireless work in tackling this disease.

Millennium Development Goals: Women and Girls

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the United Nations Women analysis of the progress made towards meeting the Millennium Development Goals for women and girls.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, despite many gains, progress across the millennium development goals has been uneven for girls and women. The MDGs did not effectively address the factors which underpin gender inequality. The United Kingdom is pushing for a post-2015 framework that has a strong and explicit commitment to gender equality and that will seek to transform outcomes for girls and women.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her response and agree that we must build upon what has been achieved by the MDGs but acknowledge those goals’ shortcomings up until now, particularly on gender equality, women’s empowerment and violence against women—three major issues which have been neglected. The Minister will be aware that women across the world continue to face economic, social and political exclusion. At the current pace of change, it will take 81 years to reach parity in the workplace and more than 75 years to reach equal pay for work of equal value. Will the Minister clarify whether the Government have responded to the UN Women position paper on the post-2015 development agenda, which advocates a stand-alone goal geared to achieving gender equality and women’s empowerment? Has the UK responded to the UN Women proposal that there should be rigorous mainstreaming of gender equality concerns across the other priority areas and goals of the post-2015 agenda?

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness is right to note that very uneven progress. We are indeed committed to the standalone goal and to mainstreaming.

[Baroness Maddock (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the Department for International Development and UNICEF have a project in Nigeria that is aimed at getting 100% of girls into school by, I think, 2020. How do they intend to monitor this project to ensure that it is making good progress?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

It is extremely important to get girls as well as boys into school. A lot of progress has been made and there is almost gender parity, except in areas where there is conflict and, particularly, rural areas. The noble Baroness rightly highlights the project in Nigeria. We are working with UNICEF to manage the girls’ education project, which aims to get 1 million girls in school, and the results monitoring process has been agreed with UNICEF and is being implemented.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister acknowledged, the goal relating to maternal mortality reduction will not be met by 2015. However, a great deal has been achieved by programmes such as Making It Happen by the Centre for Maternal and Newborn Health at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, and I declare an interest as a supporter. Will the Minister assure the House that support from her department for progress like this that has made a huge difference will continue, so that this is not unfinished business past 2015?

[Baroness Northover]

It certainly must not be allowed to be unfinished business after 2015. The noble Baroness is right that progress has been made—maternal mortality has dropped by 45%—but we need to take that much further forward.

[Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware—I am sure she is—that, unfortunately, in large parts of the world there is a lot of conflict and fighting, and that it is always the women who suffer the most in such circumstances? What is being done at UN level to see that women who are caught up in battles and fighting are properly looked after? I fear that they are suffering more than the general population. It is women who suffer in these conflicts.

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness is right that women and girls are especially vulnerable in such circumstances; I was hearing this morning about the particular vulnerability of adolescent girls. She will know that the international community is beginning to address this issue and that DfID is playing a leading role in trying to ensure that, for example, the women and girls displaced in Syria are well supported. She is right, however, that we need to move this further forward.

[Lord Quirk (CB)]

My Lords, mention has been made of Nigeria. What is the Government’s response to rumours that, as a result of Boko Haram activity in northern and eastern Nigeria, parents are reluctant to send their children to school there? This may be happening in other places where there is extremist activity, in Africa and elsewhere.

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Lord is right. Many families are concerned about the safety of their daughters and about sending them to school, not only in situations such as northern Nigeria but, if the girls have to travel by themselves to school, simply due to the question of whether they are vulnerable. This is something that DfID, along with other partners, is working to address.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, what is the Government’s position on reports in the past week that there may be a risk that the rights that women in Afghanistan have earned in the last 10 years may be compromised, rolled back or lost as a result of the Afghan Government’s discussions with the Taliban?

[Baroness Northover]

We are acutely aware of the position of women in Afghanistan and the progress that has been achieved, and we are determined, along with them, to ensure that it is secured. We are in dialogue with the Government of Afghanistan about the position of women.

[Baroness Gould of Potternewton (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a question for the Minister about another country, regarding the effect of Ebola in Sierra Leone and the fact that girls are no longer able to go to school and schools are actually closing down. Can she give some indication as to what support we might be giving to help to get the schools reopened so that girls can start their education again?

[Baroness Northover]

The Government’s priory is to eliminate the Ebola epidemic in Sierra Leone. We are making extremely good progress, as the noble Baroness will know. We are not there yet, but one of our aims is to reopen the schools. In the mean time, we are seeking to support children who are out of school by distance learning.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, very early this morning Radio 4’s “Thought for the Day” mentioned the impact of microfinance in giving women control over their own lives. What action is the Minister’s department taking to ensure that such programmes are supported in what are now described as middle-income countries? What steps are the United Kingdom Government taking to ensure that financial inclusion is properly addressed in the SDGs?

[Baroness Northover]

We have a wide range of programmes supporting financial inclusion. I stress that we need to make sure that in general in the economies of developing countries women have as many opportunities as men at every level.

Gender Equality: Developing Nations

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Loomba]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to promote the education of girls and young women and gender equality in developing nations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom has prioritised girls’ education as one of the four pillars of our strategic vision for women and girls. Since 2010 the UK has supported more than 10 million girls and boys in primary and lower secondary schools. We are working to ensure that gender equality is central to the post-2015 development framework, with a dedicated gender goal, targets throughout the framework and data broken down by sex and age.

[Lord Loomba (LD)]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. The education of girls and young women and their equality is linked in one way or another to the welfare of widows and how societies around the world treat them. I declare an interest as founder and chairman of the Loomba Foundation.

An estimated 245 million widows and 500 million children around the world suffer injustice in silence. More than 100 million widows live in poverty, struggling to survive, and 1.5 million widows’ children die before their fifth birthday.

Due to conflict, war, poverty, lack of adequate living standards, nutritious food, clean drinking water and healthcare, the number of widows is increasing in the developing world. How will the Minister ensure that the importance of the plight of widows is included in the framework of the UN millennium development goals for 2015-30?

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I commend my noble friend for his work in this extremely important area. DfID supports a range of projects to assist widows—for example in Bangladesh and Pakistan. We recognise how especially vulnerable widows can be. As my noble friend knows, we place great importance on gender equality and on the principle of leaving no one behind in the new framework which it is hoped will be agreed at the UN in September. This is clearly vital in seeking to eradicate extreme poverty.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister knows, millions of marginalised girls are literally risking their lives to get a safe, high-quality education. In Pakistan, the schooling of girls has been outlawed by the Taliban. In Afghanistan, girls have been attacked in their classroom and a schoolgirls’ bus was bombed. In Congo, girls have been raped by soldiers on their way to school and, as we know, 200 schoolgirls in Nigeria were abducted by Boko Haram.

Will the Minister tell the House how DfID is supporting the efforts of UNESCO and UNICEF to focus more effectively on marginalised girls, in line with the aim that she just mentioned of leaving no one behind?

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite right about the risks girls often take in seeking an education. I hope that I can reassure her by saying that one of our focuses now is to try to ensure that the most vulnerable girls and boys are able to get into school safely, and not only to primary school but to progress on to secondary school. The very fact that they can get there is an indication that they have actually succeeded in primary school.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I have recently returned from Sierra Leone where all the schools have been closed for almost nine months. This has had a devastating effect on the education of girls in particular, many of whom will never return to school now and among whom there are very disturbing reports of increased rates of sexual exploitation, early marriage and teenage pregnancy. Can the Minister assure me that Her Majesty’s Government will continue to support the outstanding efforts on the part of both UK government bodies and NGOs, which I was privileged to witness in that country, not only right until the end of the Ebola outbreak, which is far from finished, but also in the longer term for rebuilding education and health in that very needy country?

[Baroness Northover]

I thank the noble Baroness for her tribute to the work that we are doing in Sierra Leone, and I also pay tribute to that work, which has been outstanding. We are trying to get Ebola down to zero cases because that is crucial. We want to see the schools reopen, and at the moment we are focused on how to rebuild within Sierra Leone. However, she is quite right to talk about the special vulnerability of women and girls. We are seeking to protect them and ensure that the risks that she has talked about do not come to fruition.

[Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may take this opportunity to congratulate the Government on getting these 5 million girls educated. Andrew Mitchell was the first Secretary of State to focus on it, along with Justine Greening and the rest of the DfID team, and it has been so effective. What are the Government doing on early and forced marriage, one of the related topics here and which came up at the very successful Girl Summit that took place in London last year?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

Again, I thank my noble friend for her tribute to the work that has been done within DfID. As she has said, last year we had the Girl Summit which focused on both FGM and early and forced marriage. These are clear abuses of girls’ rights. We have already invested significantly in both areas and I trust that that will continue in the future.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that in the forthcoming negotiations on the SDGs in New York, the UK will resist attempts to weaken the draft standalone goal on gender equality? Does she share the view that it is vital that it should include strong language on women’s rights and be underpinned by progressive targets that tackle discriminatory social norms?

[Baroness Northover]

I fully agree.

[Baroness Manzoor (LD)]

My Lords, the law is unequally applied in Bahrain between Sunni women and Shia women in areas such as inheritance, divorce, child custody and domestic disputes. What are the Government doing to address these issues with the Bahraini Government, and if they have had any discussions, what are the timescales for addressing these terrible injustices and inequalities?

[Baroness Northover]

There is inequality for women everywhere. The Foreign Office, as part of its work particularly on International Women’s Day, is engaging with those countries where these problems are particularly acute. In the case of Bahrain, the ambassador is holding a round table with a number of Bahraini women from all walks of life to discuss these issues.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords—

Sudan: Bombardment of Civilians

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, recent developments in Sudan’s conflict zones are deeply concerning. Continued attacks on civilian populations, including in South Kordofan and Blue Nile states, are entirely unacceptable. We continue to support the mediation work of President Mbeki’s AU panel and to emphasise to all sides that the only resolution to these conflicts is through political dialogue, not military means.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. Is she aware that I recently visited Blue Nile state and witnessed first hand the devastating effects of the Government of Sudan’s escalating aerial bombardment, which deliberately targets schools, hospitals, markets and people trying to grow crops? People cannot grow food and many hundreds have died of starvation. The bombers now come equipped with search-lights so that they can kill by night as well as by day. Over half a million people have fled their homes and are hiding in snake-infested caves, in river banks and under trees. What are Her Majesty’s Government actually doing to call the Government of Sudan to account and end the impunity with which they are perpetrating this de facto genocide?

[Baroness Northover]

I am aware of the noble Baroness’s visit and I thank her for the report that she issued after it. I commend her for her commitment to this incredibly dangerous region.

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear.

[Baroness Northover]

We pressed the Government of Sudan and their armed forces to cease attacks on civilians and to comply with international humanitarian law. We have consistently raised the two areas in the UN Security Council and the Human Rights Council and, through our embassy work, we seek to highlight the importance of the rule of law and promote a culture of accountability throughout Sudan. We are working very hard to try to get that across.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, what has been the Security Council’s response to the Human Rights Watch reports of horrific incidents of mass rape in Darfur and the continuing insecurity and impunity in that region? When will al-Bashir and his Janjaweed be called to account? We are now watching a terrible new phase of genocide in Darfur—and, I am afraid, in silence.

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Baroness highlights some very grave problems in Sudan, and she will I am sure also know that the UN independent expert on human rights in Sudan is looking at the human rights situation there. We are very concerned that that is taken forward. In terms of sexual violence, she will know that it appears to be an area where rape is being used as a deliberate weapon of war. We are pressing the Sudanese Government to try to take forward protection of civilians, but she will be acutely aware of how challenging that is proving to be.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, during two visits to South Sudan last year, both in Juba and in the fighting area, it was evident that there was widespread belief and evidence that the Government of Sudan were not only interfering in South Kordofan, Blue Nile and Darfur with these terrible acts, but seek further to destabilise the already terrible situation in South Sudan. What steps do this Government believe should be taken and what steps are they taking with the international community to stop this cross-border interference?

[Baroness Northover]

The cross-border area is again a very difficult area to be working in. Our sense of things in terms of South Sudan is that we have huge challenges there in trying to get the parties to some kind of agreement. The Government of Sudan themselves are playing a non-obstructive role generally speaking. However, given all the instability on the border that the most reverend Primate talks about, it is exceptionally difficult.

[Lord Avebury (LD)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise and do the Government recognise that the genocidal Government of Field Marshal al-Bashir and his generals, many of whom have also been invited before the ICC, have adopted a deliberate plan to eradicate the SPLM/A by a programme of destruction of food crops, bombing of hospitals and other atrocities which have already led to the fleeing of 250,000 people from South Kordofan and Blue Nile to take refuge in Sudan and Ethiopia? When will the Government remind the United Nations of the duty to protect?

[Baroness Northover]

We have consistently stressed the need for the United Nations to be engaged in the two areas. Obviously, there are challenges when the United Nations is not allowed into the areas that it should be. When I was in Sudan about a month ago, we were pressing on the Government there that, if the United Nations wants to get in and feels that it is safe to, it should be able to. We pressed for the Security Council statement on 11 December, which called on all parties to refrain from acts of violence against civilians. The newly appointed independent expert is working on human rights abuses and we are urging him to take that further forward.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall our exchange on 17 May 2012, when I asked her whether she concurred with the view of Dr Mukesh Kapila, formerly our high representative in Sudan, that the second genocide of the 21st century was unfolding in South Kordofan, Darfur being the first? In her reply she said that,

“it is clear that there have been indiscriminate attacks on civilians and war crimes”.—[Official Report, 17/5/12; col. 526.]

In the nearly three years that have elapsed since then, during which an estimated 2,500 bombs have been dropped on civilian targets, why has the international community totally failed to prevent this horrific carnage, failed systematically to collect the evidence, failed to establish an international committee of inquiry, and failed to hold anyone to account for these atrocities?

[Baroness Northover]

I do remember that exchange and I remember the discussions we had after that question as well—as no doubt the noble Lord does—and the sensitivity of what we did in trying to make sure that we were able to get humanitarian organisations in, which we are seeking to do. We are extremely concerned to make sure that that access is there. It is indeed a very challenging situation and we would hold both sides to account. Certainly, in terms of what the Government of Sudan have been doing, we have enormous concerns and address this through the human rights activities that I was talking about.

International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Friday 27th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I will make a brief point in response to the point that was made, and the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. It would appear that some noble Lords are under a misapprehension about what the Bill does. All it does is require the Secretary of State to have a target of 0.7%, and where under Clause 2 he or she has established that target, they have to make a statement to Parliament if they have not met the target. Clause 2(3) says that a statement made,

“must explain why the 0.7% target has not been met in the report year and, if relevant, refer to the effect of one or more of the following”,

which are, in paragraphs (a) to (c),

“economic circumstances and, in particular, any substantial change in gross national income … fiscal circumstances and, in particular, the likely impact of meeting the target on taxation, public spending and public borrowing … circumstances arising outside the United Kingdom”.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, thinks that that is a flag, but it is more of a dish-cloth. All it does is to say, “This target is desirable, but if it’s not met, you’ve got to give a statement to Parliament, and these are the range of reasons”.

Circumstances outside the United Kingdom could be anything whatever. There could be a crisis in euroland or a whole range of things such as difficulties in Ukraine. The Bill does not impose an absolute statutory duty to spend 0.7%, as has been suggested by some noble Lords; it simply imposes a duty to tell Parliament if this has not been done and to give a reason for that. What it does do, however, is to mess up the procedures by which our country has accountability for public expenditure and to confuse the fiscal year with the financial year, and it does so because it is a flag-waving Bill in terms of meeting an international target. Those of us in this House who are seriously concerned about getting money to poor people in poor countries, and ensuring that that money is spent wisely, ought to support this amendment. Far from weakening the Bill, it would strengthen it as it would bring the Treasury into the process from day one and avoid the situation whereby the Secretary of State can say, “I didn’t meet the target because the economy wasn’t right and the Treasury wasn’t too happy”. This amendment would strengthen the Bill and preserve the integrity of our financial control.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for bringing this amendment before us and welcome the level of attendance in the Chamber.

The noble Lords who have tabled this amendment have a formidable track record in the Civil Service and in government, not least in the Treasury, as the House will recognise, and are supported by very experienced voices. I value enormously their input and insights. It is extremely important that we take what they say very seriously. Nevertheless, I am afraid that, on behalf of the Government, I must resist this amendment. Perhaps I can explain why.

The Bill places a duty on the Secretary of State for International Development to meet the 0.7% GNI ODA target in 2015 and each subsequent year, and to lay a statement before Parliament in the event of it not being met. This proposed amendment in effect places the decision, though not the responsibility, to meet the target first and foremost with the Treasury at each spending round. It therefore provides the possibility for the Treasury to decide that 0.7% is no longer a priority, and for budgets to be accordingly adjusted downwards.

Of course, I am certain that the Treasury will fully scrutinise what DfID does, as, I assure the noble Lord, it does now. The department will, of course, still be subject to scrutiny through the spending review process in terms of how it spends the money. The department is scrutinised not only by the Treasury through the spending review process, as are all departments, but also through the Treasury approval of individual programmes within an agreed regime of delegated authority. I assure noble Lords that this Bill does not affect the role of the Treasury. What it does is send a clear message from this Parliament of its expectations in regard to the aid programme. As the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, put it, it would be wrong to interpose the Treasury into this arrangement through writing it into legislation. The Treasury’s role remains unchanged. Therefore, the proposed amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, is not needed either because of the scrutiny I mentioned, and it too should be resisted, if it were put.

The allocation of public expenditure is already a primary Treasury function. The Treasury’s role in the spending review is to ensure that the Government’s limited resources are allocated in the best way possible to DfID and other government departments to deliver government objectives, including enabling the UK to meet the 0.7% target—a commitment which this Parliament has debated and on which it has come to a settled view in the other place, and may yet in this place.

One of the challenges of the ODA level has been its huge variation, dropping sometimes to around 0.2%, and at other times moving up to 0.5% and now to 0.7%. That is not the pattern for other departments. Stability and long-term commitment are required. As the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, pointed out, this Bill enables us to move beyond the quantity to the quality of aid. We would not reach 0.7% if we did not already have formal Treasury approval in the spending round. This amendment proposes an additional legislative requirement to do what the Government are already required to do: tell Parliament how they propose to allocate public expenditure.

The noble Lord, Lord Butler, and other noble Lords expressed concerns that legislation of this nature relieves departments of having to make a case for expenditure. The noble Lord was particularly concerned about the impact that the commitment to 0.7% would have on value for money, as he said in Committee. I reassure him that the commitment to 0.7% is in fact having the opposite effect to that which he fears. It has resulted in a great increase in scrutiny, not a reduction. The Government have stepped up scrutiny and value for money. We have set up the Independent Commission for Aid Impact, which enables strong parliamentary oversight. All DfID spend is subject to a rigorous value for money assessment. A recent review by the OECD’s Development Assistance Committee said that the scaling up of the UK’s aid budget was planned in a way to ensure that the extra money was well spent and had the greatest possible impact. We are now ranked second in the world in transparency on aid finance.

In conclusion, I am afraid we do not feel that this proposed amendment is in the spirit of the Bill. The Bill allows Parliament to send a clear message to the Government about the spending expected on ODA from year to year. Most accept that the need is there. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Butler, and others for their recognition of that. Most accept that we can be very effective in helping to meet that need, for which I thank them. One day, of course, we all hope that this assistance will not be needed, but we are still very far from that place. Of course, as my noble friend Lord Howell said, we also harness many other means to assist development, including working with very fragile states such as Somalia and Syria.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am extremely grateful to my noble friend. Before she sits down, will she address the point that the noble Lord, Lord Reid, made, and which I tried to make, about outcomes? Will she comment on the fact that ODA and “ODA-able” expenditure is of less relevance in promoting development and overseas assistance to eradicate poverty than it was in the past? That is a rather important consideration on which I would value her views.

[Baroness Northover]

Outcomes and results are a major focus of what DfID does; I hope that will reassure the noble Lord. We recognise the complexity of working in developing countries. The very fact that we focus on fragile states, and use all sorts of other means to try to assist their development, stability and security, shows that we understand how complex this environment is. However, it would be contrary to the aims that we are talking about if we made a provision that the Treasury, however laudable the institution, organisation and department may be, can effectively switch the target on and off at will.

The amendment has the potential to undermine the clear message that Parliament is sending and the consistency and predictability that the Bill, in its essence, seeks to achieve. It also has the potential to undermine the authority of Parliament itself by placing the Treasury in the role of gatekeeper between Parliament and government.

I have given a great deal of thought to the noble Lord’s amendment. Even if he does not agree with my position and is therefore unwilling to withdraw it, I hope that he will accept the argument that I make. If he wishes to test the opinion of the House, I make it clear to those who support the essence of the Bill that we oppose the noble Lord’s amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I entirely understand and appreciate the sentiments behind these amendments as they seek to introduce greater flexibility through turning the target into a five-year one rather than an annual one. However, in practice, the greater flexibility that noble Lords are seeking cannot be achieved in this way and I cannot support the amendment.

First, as the House is aware, the 0.7% target is an internationally agreed one, monitored by the OECD Development Assistance Committee. Through a consensus of its 29 member countries, the DAC has long monitored levels of ODA spend—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the international target is 0.7% but that it is not 0.7% in any one year?

[Baroness Northover]

I can inform my noble friend that the DAC measures this on an annual basis. That is why the UK needs to report its ODA spend to the OECD in that way. Making this amendment to the Bill would have no bearing on our international reporting requirement, and it is crucial for clarity, consistency and transparency that we continue to report to the OECD in this way.

Secondly, regardless of this amendment, DfID will still have an annual budget, allocated by the Treasury, as we discussed in much detail in the last amendment, which it will plan to spend according to agreed forecasts. DfID will continue to seek funding from the Treasury that would enable the UK to meet the 0.7% ODA target from year to year. This amendment would serve only to risk reducing somewhat the predictability and consistency of the size of the annual budget, again something we addressed in the last amendment. I can assure the House that annual limits and measurements do not prevent long-term planning, which is what I think noble Lords are seeking to do in their amendments. As I said in response to the last amendment, delivering 0.7% GNI as ODA annually provides the United Kingdom with a relatively steady ODA budget each year. This allows for better long-term planning and more effective use of resources over multi-year periods, providing greater certainty over funding levels than would happen if this same target were measured over a five-year period.

DfID has a flexible portfolio of programmes and all of DfID’s spend is subject to a rigorous value-for-money assessment. Due to the dynamic nature of DfID’s portfolio, it is reasonable for programmes to be accelerated and decelerated to accommodate emerging priorities such as the crisis within Syria, for example. In its reporting on managing delivery of the 2013 ODA target, the National Audit Office found no evidence that DfID had failed to deliver value for money in the programmes contributing to the delivery of the ODA target.

My noble friend Lord Lamont expressed concern about measuring the ODA:GNI ratio. There is a clear and agreed statistical process which is overseen by the Office for National Statistics for reporting the ODA:GNI ratio. This enables a final figure to be reported in the year following the year in question. Of course, GNI estimates can and do vary. However, estimates are updated on a quarterly basis during the year in question and the method for assessing 0.7% allows for a reasonable level of statistical rounding to accommodate modest last-minute changes.

The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, and my noble friend Lord Lamont were also concerned about a potential rush to spend at the end of the calendar year. This is something that we addressed both at Second Reading and in Committee. I would like to reassure noble Lords once more that this is not the case and that there are mechanisms which the department uses to ensure that it spends its money in a strategic and long-term way. As noble Lords will be aware, the spending around the end of the calendar year 2013 was in part because there are some bills which always come in during December. Our bill for the EC attribution always comes in in December. Deposits of promissory notes for the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria and the World Bank are concentrated at the end of the year. I would dispute the suggestion that contributions to the global fund would be a less effective use of resources. I am sure that my noble friend Lord Fowler would certainly dispute that. Reaching the poorest through an organisation like that is often the best use of such funding. The NAO and the OECD DAC have recognised this good practice and have given their assurance that the Government have robust processes and mechanisms in place to manage those budgets.

My noble friend Lord Howell mentioned ways of making sure that we are contributing to development other than through grants. He will be well aware, for example, of the CDC and the contribution that DfID can make through that organisation. The Government are able to invest in a wide range of activities of which I am sure he would be supportive. They lead to wider development and can also contribute in terms of ODA. I will be very happy to give my noble friend all the details of what DfID does in that regard. As I said in response to the last amendment, giving 0.7% of GNI as ODA annually provides a steady budget.

I was extremely glad to hear about the family background of my noble friend Lord Brooke, which rather differs from my own. However, that said, I hope that noble Lords will be prepared not to press these amendments. I understand what they are arguing for, but I would like to reassure them that there is a strategic long-term plan, and adopting 0.7% enables us to deliver it more effectively. We report on it on an annual basis, but that does not mean to say that it is simply an annual budget. It is a longer-term, strategic approach to what we wish to achieve through development. On the basis of that, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment, but if he decides that he wishes to test the opinion of the House, I should make it very clear that we will oppose it.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I do not think that any new arguments have been put forward on Report on these amendments, which are identical to those we debated in Committee. I do not think that the case has been prosecuted, but let me respond to some of the points that have been raised. I believe that far from improving financial management or making the delivery of ODA more effective, these amendments would actually create a worse situation. In addition, they do not acknowledge that we would have to continue to report annually in accordance with the OECD Development Assistance Committee requirements along with what has not been mentioned, which is the International Development (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006. These would carry on, quite rightly, because the annual target, which is based on the UN annual target for the number of annual transfers that are direct from government, and the OECD DAC annual reporting mechanisms are both there.

--- Later in debate ---

Therefore, far from strengthening the position of a Government to spend 0.7% of GDP, the Bill greatly weakens the position, and I commend my noble friend Lord Lawson for his amendment, because it is entirely appropriate that these conditions should be there to justify a Secretary of State perhaps not being able to meet the target. I look forward to hearing an explanation as to why it is appropriate to have paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) and not (d) and (e) as my noble friend is proposing.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their amendment, which seeks to require the Secretary of State to report on circumstances where meeting the target would lead to excessive spending towards the end of the calendar year. Clearly, there should be no circumstance where the Secretary of State incurs excessive spending. I express my appreciation for my noble friend’s honesty that he does not support the 0.7% target. That is extremely clear and comes over loud and clear from his contributions.

In the previous amendment I addressed the issue of quality at the end of the calendar year, so I will just very briefly mention that the expenditure at the end of 2013 included the contribution to the EC. My noble friend Lord Forsyth said that DfID was otherwise engaged and not thinking about Father Christmas, which of course was extremely appropriate, and we were concentrating on what we could manage to contribute to the Global Fund, which I have discussed before, and the World Bank. I also mentioned that the National Audit Office and the OECD DAC recognised that this was all done in exactly the way it should have been. Obviously, it is critical for us to build up a strong enough pipeline that gives us a choice and the contingency to manage the budget that we have. We have such a good pipeline, and this means that we are able to choose between programmes that represent good value for money.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Lawson about trade, FDI and the other aspects that he mentioned, and with my noble friend Lord Lamont, who mentioned remittances. They all play their part in development. That is key. However, the economist Jim O’Neill, formerly of Goldman Sachs, who devised the terms BRIC and MINT for some of the emerging economies that I think they are talking about—I am sure my noble friends are acutely aware of how they have managed to develop—advised that Goldman Sachs’s investment should be partly guided by the Human Development Index. He says that it was when Turkey and Mexico reached a certain level of education that it was possible to drive industrial development and investment. That is why, for example, aid supporting education and health for the whole population may be key and complementary to those other aspects.

I note that my noble friend Lord Lawson said, perhaps inadvertently, the department for “industrial” development rather than international development. Looking forward, and bearing in mind our support for CDC and what I have just said in relation to the Human Development Index, perhaps that is a prescient description. Let us hope that it is sustainable industry in the future.

There are all sorts of other drivers of poverty reduction, and I fully appreciate that. They lie beyond aid, and include trade, tax, conflict, corruption and disease. That is why we also play our part in shaping the international system to work for poor countries. That underlies the UK’s approach, for example, to the post-2015 development framework. It is a false dichotomy to set “aid” and “beyond aid” as if they are competing, for the very reasons that Jim O’Neill stated.

We do not believe that it makes sense for this amendment to include a report on the relevant factors for the target not being met and speculation about future events, as it appears to require. In any event, Clause 2(4) already makes provision for the Secretary of State to describe what steps she or he has taken to meet the target in the coming year.

I hope that I addressed very thoroughly, when speaking on the previous amendment, our approach to spending over the year and the importance of a sustainable, long-term programme that does not commit us simply to spending in a particular year but looks at an overall strategy over a longer period. Therefore, let me make clear that we do not accept this amendment and hope that it will be withdrawn.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

Perhaps I may clarify one point, which bears upon what the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, said, although not necessarily his amendment. It is the relationship between what the Minister called human development and economic development. I have great respect for Jim O’Neill. He is a very intelligent, very successful man and a great Manchester United supporter, so I have no reason to object to what he said, but I am sure that he would be the first to point out that, although education is of great importance in development, the production and maintenance of increasing levels of education are dependent on the production of a surplus domestically, which allows the development not only of education but of other social services. I understood the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, to be making the point that economic development, including capital investment, remittances and trade and so on, was the very basis on which future prosperity and a fair society are built. I do not think that the two are in dichotomy, as the Minister appeared to suggest.

[Baroness Northover]

The noble Lord has it absolutely right. I am saying that there is no dichotomy between them. It is clear that economic development is transformative; the issue is how you underpin it and take it forward. I was indicating that Jim O’Neill puts that emphasis on human development to have the economic transformation that the noble Lord and my noble friend seek. There is no dichotomy. That is why we approach it in terms of both human development and taking economic development further forward.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I thank my noble friends for their amendment and the case that they made, which I understood clearly and which was sincerely made. However, I cannot accept the amendment and shall explain briefly why. In doing so, I hope to give satisfactory answers to the points that they made.

As I understand it, the amendment would place a duty on the Secretary of State to report to Parliament if they had not met the target because the budget was low at the start of the year, they had no ability properly to deliver the expenditure towards the end of the year and this mismanagement would persist in future years. However, not only are there other parts of the Bill that provide for independent evaluation of the impact of the aid in the widest terms, but this Bill complements the 2006 Bill, which also requires statistical reporting that addresses many of those aspects, too. Together, they provide a proper reporting mechanism on the proper delivery of the budget that DfID will have. Therefore, it is a quite distinct issue from whether there are factors that mean that it is hard for DfID to deliver its budget from year to year. That is a slightly wider aspect to which the Minister responded to very properly.

The NAO report was cited again. It is worth stating that I agree with the report and have sympathy with its finding at paragraph 12, which states:

“The requirement to hit, but not significantly exceed, aid spending equal to 0.7% of gross national income every calendar year means the Department has to hit a fairly narrow target against a background of considerable uncertainty”.

That is of course the case. Indeed, the delivery of aid has often been one of the more difficult aspects in different circumstances around the world. That is why there are a number of tools available to government for the proper delivery of it, either through multilateral organisations or from the promissory note mechanism. They are a positive means of delivering proper budget management. In responding to the previous group of amendments, the Minister indicated, for example, that towards the end of a calendar year DfID provides a £1 billion contribution to EC ODA. That is drawn down in December after approval, funnily enough, by the Treasury. Deposits on promissory notes, the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, TB and Malaria and the World Bank contributions are concentrated at the year end. What this Bill affords is the ability for the UK now to enter into a different form of discussions with its multilateral partners, because we will be moving from a situation where we are seeking to reach the target to one where we have met it and are seeking to sustain that. Not only will we be striving to have better delivery of our own aid programme, but we will have a much stronger standing internationally to deliver this for our partners around the world.

Even in the circumstances where we were meeting the target, as we were discussing in Committee, the NAO report recognised the work of DfID in delivering this. I think that the Bill addresses what my noble friends are seeking to achieve, which is that all factors with the proper delivery of aid will be reported to Parliament and will be afforded proper parliamentary scrutiny. Together with the 2006 Act, this legislation will provide for that ability. On that basis, I hope that my noble friend will withdraw his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Marlesford]

In that case, I would have thought that we should redefine aid to take into account the need to be able to deliver it, if necessary unilaterally but maybe with other countries as well—particularly the United States, where the expenditure is not that great, as we have heard.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords for tabling this amendment, and I agree that both the ODA target and the level of defence spend are very important issues. Once again, reflecting this House, we have had a profoundly well informed debate on this amendment, with the participation of, I reckoned: a Chief of the Air Staff—later Chief of the Defence Staff—a First Sea Lord, a former Secretary of State for Defence, and so on. Where else but here? This has also been extremely thoughtful and well argued.

However, to tie one set of spending to the other would not do justice, in our view, to the intention behind the Bill, which aims to increase the predictability of the aid budget and consolidate the United Kingdom’s position as a leader in international development. I understand the noble Lords’ concern to ensure that the defence budget is adequate for the task at hand. They will know that the United Kingdom has the second largest defence budget in NATO and the largest in Europe, and that the Government are committed to spending 2% of GDP on defence. I absolutely hear what noble Lords have said about the importance of the defence of the realm. However, I am afraid that, while I respect the views expressed by noble Lords today, I cannot agree that this amendment belongs in the Bill.

[Lord West of Spithead]

Can the Minister clarify whether she disputes the fact that, according to this latest study, the percentage of GDP we spend on defence will be 1.88%? That is a fairly definitive and very thorough study, and that seems to be what it will be. However, the noble Baroness said that we will still stay above 2%.

[Baroness Northover]

I have just given the Government’s commitment. Interestingly, I also have here the figures for defence spending year on year—which I am assured the noble Lord is extremely well aware of—from 1990 up to the present. One of the things that strikes me, coming out of DfID, is how steady it is. Yes, it went up, in particular between 2007 and 2011, but generally speaking it has been remarkably steady over that period from 1990 to the present, in contrast to the aid budget. Noble Lords can look at those figures. That brings me back to my point.

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

May I give the noble Baroness another chance to answer the question from my noble friend Lord West, which she did not do? Did she or did she not say that the Government are committed to maintaining defence spending at more than 2% of GDP after the next financial year?

[Baroness Northover]

I remind the noble Lord that we have a general election between now and then, and although we are not standing for election many of our colleagues are. The new Government will no doubt take a decision as to what they say their spending should be. However, I set that in the context of a continuity here, as regards defence spending, which you do not see in the DfID budget.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

I am grateful to the Minister but I have to come back on this. We understand that, tragically from her point of view, the present Government may not be in office after the general election, but if they are, will they maintain expenditure at 2% or above? Incidentally, I say that in the context of not accepting her figures on continuity. I do so for very good reasons. For instance, just after the Cold War, under Mrs Thatcher as Prime Minister, there was a 25% cut in real terms in defence expenditure over a six-year period.

[Baroness Northover]

I am very happy to share these figures with noble Lords but I am making a comparison with the aid budget, which is what we are addressing—perhaps I could bring noble Lords back to that. I do not dispute the value of the defence budget but we are trying to make sure that the aid budget is much more predictable. I hope that I may be allowed to carry on because I realise that noble Lords wish to get through some other elements.

[Lord Tugendhat]

I thank the noble Baroness. She has just asserted that there has been considerable continuity as regards defence expenditure. I recognise that the noble Lord opposite disputed that but she has asserted that there has been considerable continuity in that regard. That continuity has been achieved without a legal obligation, so does not that cast doubt on the whole essence of her argument that a legal obligation is necessary to achieve continuity?

[Baroness Northover]

That is an interesting point. The problem with the aid budget is that you do not see the level of continuity and predictability that you see in other government departments, so, in some ways, the noble Lord has put his finger on why we have this Bill.

Several noble Lords have linked aid and defence. Of course, we recognise that conflict is development in reverse, with no fragile low-income country meeting a single millennium development goal. Helping rebuild fragile states will help tackle the root causes of global problems such as disease, drugs, migration and terrorism, and is far less costly than military interventions. The United Kingdom is, and has long been, a global leader in promoting a “whole of government” approach to international peace and security. The establishment of a new, more than £1 billion Conflict, Stability and Security Fund in 2015-16 will support a larger and more integrated UK effort in National Security Council priority countries.

The noble Lord, Lord Reid, rightly pointed to the outstanding contribution that the military has provided in supporting civilian efforts to combat Ebola in Sierra Leone. I welcome, as we all do, that close working and am sure that we will need to develop it further in the future. Some ODA is, of course, spent by the MoD as well as by the FCO, DECC, Defra, DoH and the Department for Education. I come back to my main point: we are trying to ensure that aid is predictable. It should not be tied to the entirely laudable aim of ensuring that defence or other areas are properly addressed. That is why we cannot support this amendment and I hope that the noble Lord will be willing to withdraw it.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, if the House will forgive me, I will focus on the specific amendment as it affects the Bill. However, in so doing, I should say that I have respect for, and have been highly impressed by, the quality of this important debate, to which the Minister referred, and its imperative going forward.

I believe that a similar debate is taking place in another place today on the resumed Second Reading of the Defence Expenditure (NATO Target) Bill introduced by Mr Christopher Chope. It will be interesting to see whether Mark Francois, the Minister of State for the Armed Forces, responds to that debate. He will no doubt reinforce his opposition to the Bill in the Commons today, and my noble friends may correspond with him to discover his reasons for that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I am a very humble sort of chap. I have sat here this morning, participated in the debate and have listened to former Cabinet Secretaries, former Permanent Secretaries, former chiefs of staff with great experience in defence, former Secretaries of State and former Treasury Ministers. There is an almost unanimous voice saying, “Look, we support the principle but, actually, the way in which this is being implemented is mistaken”. No doubt the Bill will make its way towards the statute book and people will be able to change it in the future. However, on this matter of the defence of our country, we are in territory that is of fundamental importance.

Having listened to the speeches of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, the noble Lord, Lord West, and, speaking from the opposition Benches, a former Secretary of State for Defence, who has held quite a number of other positions—a vast experience of government—I am very surprised that my noble friend the Minister has not said, “You know what? We need to go back and think about this”. I did not grasp whether she was saying that the Government remain committed to a target of 2% or that they would meet their 2% target this year. I shall happily give way to her if she can clarify what she was saying, because there is a degree of confusion about that.

[Baroness Northover]

I trust that I made it clear in answer to my noble friend Lord Tugendhat. He made the very reasonable point: why hypothecate this one but not the other one? I responded that the defence budget has been much more predictable. I understand the pressures on it and, therefore, there is a strong argument for making sure that the aid budget, which has zig-zagged all over the place, as we have heard, is fixed in the way in which we are seeking.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am rather disappointed with that answer. I am happy to give the Minister another go as she did not actually answer the question. The reason the aid budget has, as she said, wiggled all over the place is because the Government have added another £5 billion to it in order to meet their target. They have met—in fact, they have more than met—the 0.7% target this year, without the need for the Bill. Saying that the defence budget has been reasonably consistent has been challenged and I do not want to go over those arguments. The aid budget has moved all over the place because of the decisions made by Governments.

The point that I am asking her about is this: was she saying that the Government will indeed meet the 2% target this year, and are committed to that? If she is saying that, I am much less concerned about my amendment, and that is fine. If she was just saying that the Government have committed themselves to the NATO target, that is a completely different position. That is why she is arguing for the Bill in respect of the overseas aid target: it is not enough for the Government to commit to meet the target and we need to have it in statute. What she is saying about this is very important, so what was she saying?

[Baroness Northover]

We are talking about a Bill relating to development. We are talking about a 0.7% target to do with development. That is what the Bill is about and that is why we oppose the amendment: it does not relate to the Bill in question.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

We can all take it from that that the Government are not prepared to say on the record, with all the risks and threats around us in the world, that they are committed to meeting that 2% target. That is extremely disappointing, especially when the Prime Minister is going around telling other countries that they ought to do so. Surely the whole basis of the debate has been about setting an example to the rest of the world.

A number of points have been made. I want to pick up on points made by my noble friend Lord Marlesford and by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, which are profoundly important. The noble and gallant Lord talked about the fantastic job being done by our troops around the world, in conflict zones and elsewhere, to help improve people’s quality of life. That is something of which we should be immensely proud. We should not be proud of the fact that only £5 million of Ministry of Defence spending counted as overseas development aid for the year 2013. The Government are obsessed with sticking to conditions set by other people—who do not actually meet the target—as to what can be included in the target.

I listened to my noble friend the Minister’s boss, the Secretary of State, on the radio this morning, speaking from Sierra Leone. She was very good indeed. She said how committed she was to aid being about helping people economically. She spoke with great affection about the role being played there by our defence forces. But that is not allowed to come off her budget because it does not meet the target. Indeed, in one instance where we sent troops and people—I think to Haiti—the only thing that the MoD was allowed to claim was the fuel for the ships. That is an absurd position, which arises from being determined to meet a particular target determined by someone else, as opposed to thinking about how we can spend the money most effectively to help people in distress and need. In that latter example, humanitarian aid is less than 10% of the budget that we are discussing.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord, who speaks from experience, and I agree with everything he says. What we spend at the moment on overseas development aid accounts for about a third of the defence budget. All my amendment would do is say, “If you want to increase the overseas aid budget, you can do so, but we have to meet that other target as well”. That seems entirely reasonable and sensible, and I am afraid that the arguments put forward for not linking these two things were thoroughly inadequate. The advocates of the Bill have been hoist by their own petard.

I would just like to pay a small tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, for saying right at the start that he would be consistent, but I was a little disappointed that he suggested that if I divided the House he might not be able to vote for the amendment because of the drafting. That seems to be something that he should be able to overcome. If the House decides to accept the amendment, I shall be quite happy for the Government to come back with new drafting. I am very happy to work with the noble Lord to ensure that we reach agreement on the drafting, just as we have agreed on the principle of maintaining the support for our Armed Forces and ensuring the security of our country.

[Baroness Northover]

Perhaps I may clarify that we will be giving no further thought to the amendment. I also clarify that if DfID contracts the MoD to deliver humanitarian assistance, it counts as ODA. However, following what the noble Lord has just said to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, I want to clarify that we will not be giving further thought to improving his amendment.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

If that was designed to prevent me dividing the House, it was a pretty good example of negative advocacy. I beg leave to test the opinion of the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

The simple fact of the matter is that I am satisfied with the current arrangements and that we have a very strong level of accountability. Any amendments proposed at this time are not necessary.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, for his support. I think that we all agree that independent evaluation of the value for money of our ODA is essential. That is why the Government have significantly strengthened external scrutiny and accountability mechanisms for UK aid, including establishing ICAI. I thank noble Lords for their tributes to it.

ICAI has a key role to play in evaluating the department’s work, and I emphasise that it is likely in practice to be the main body through which this part of the Bill is delivered—I agree here with my right honourable friend Desmond Swayne. However, we do not agree that tying the function of independent verification entirely to one particular organisation, and enshrining that organisation in statute, is the right step to take. We do not want to limit the current range of scrutiny options that are available.

ICAI is an independent scrutiny body that reports not to the DfID Secretary of State but to Parliament through the International Development Select Committee. The IDC has a specific sub-committee which is responsible for overseeing the work of ICAI, approving ICAI’s work plan and taking evidence in public hearings following the publication of each ICAI report. It holds an inquiry into ICAI’s annual report. Noble Lords have emphasised their respect for what ICAI is doing.

The Bill asks that the Secretary of State include in each DfID annual report a statement as to how he or she has complied with the duty to ensure that there is independent verification of development assistance. As I have said, it is likely that that would be done for ICAI. The annual report is subject to scrutiny by both the National Audit Office and the IDC. Clause 5 of the Bill thus ensures that the Secretary of State will be answerable, including to Parliament, through the IDC, on whether his or her choice was of an independent and suitable body. It also allows transparent reporting on the full range of independent evaluations, and allows for scrutiny of whether the spread of arrangements in place effectively examines value for money. We believe that Clause 5 strengthens the current framework in such a way that adds value, increases accountability for programmes and projects and ensures that the value for money of our work is independently evaluated, but it does not enshrine a new body in law.

The whole thrust of this Parliament’s policy has been to bear down on the creation—

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords—

[Baroness Northover]

Perhaps I might complete what I am going to say.

The whole thrust of this Parliament’s policy has been to bear down on the creation of new statutory bodies, such as would be established by the IIDO amendment. This Parliament passed the Public Bodies Act 2011, and we seek to eliminate the creation in statute of what have been called quangos and other such bodies. Noble Lords will remember the blood on the carpet as we went through the then Public Bodies Bill. That is why we think that it is proper to avoid doing that in the Bill. A mechanism is there to ensure that independent scrutiny takes place. I reassure noble Lords that it is highly likely to be ICAI, given its track record, but there are scrutiny bodies which help to ensure that that is an effective route of scrutiny.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

I am grateful to my noble friend for giving way. The question of creating a new quango does not arise if the Government are prepared to accept the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Hollick, because ICAI already exists. There would be no new quango. There would be if the Michael Moore proposal incorporated in my amendment was agreed, that is true, but not if it is ICAI. My noble friend said that it will probably be ICAI. That is not good enough. We want a commitment that ICAI will be charged with that responsibility and that that will be written into the Bill. It is no good saying that there are other bodies such as Select Committees. Select Committees perform a completely different function—it is a very important one, but they are not under my noble friend’s department’s command. It is the Secretary of State’s responsibility to charge ICAI with this role. To say that it is very likely that it will be, but that it may not be, really is bad government.

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend will have heard what the noble Lord said about respecting how ICAI is operating now. One would hope that that is the case in future.

I point out that ICAI is one part of a wider suite of scrutiny mechanisms. The National Audit Office has statutory responsibility for conducting value for money studies on DfID’s work, and it reports to the PAC, often critically, which also makes recommendations about DfID’s work. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s Development Assistance Committee also examines the UK’s development assistance as part of a regular series of peer reviews of donor aid policies and programmes.

The structure in the Bill provides that the Secretary of State is held to account to ensure that there is proper independent scrutiny. As I said, it is highly likely that it will be ICAI, and I hope that noble Lords will take as our commitment to ensure that our aid is very thoroughly scrutinised the fact that ICAI was set up in the first place. It is not appropriate to specify it in the Bill, for the reasons that I have given. There are checks there to ensure that scrutiny. I make clear that we will oppose the amendment.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Before my noble friend sits down, by way of analogy, what would she think about a company which was spending, say, £11 billion or so that came up with the proposition that instead of appointing an auditor, it would appoint several auditors who were all jointly responsible and then pick the result that suited its interests?

[Baroness Northover]

I think that my noble friend has missed the elements where I mentioned the way in which the Secretary of State will be held to account for how our aid budget is properly and independently scrutinised.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, Amendment 22 is in similar terms to an amendment tabled in Committee, and Amendments 24 and 27 are new. Noble Lords will recall that in Committee we debated an amendment—at that point Amendment 25, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market, Lord Hollick, Lord Lawson of Blaby and Lord Lamont of Lerwick—which called for an independent inquiry into the independence, efficiency and effectiveness of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact. We then debated their concerns about the operation, and we now return to their call for that to be the statutory body. I do not believe that they have made a strong case to reconcile the two aspects of it today, either.

Let me address the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Hollick, because I actually agreed with a large amount of what he said about the need for proper scrutiny. The Minister responded to all those points. The purpose of the Bill, however, is to create a requirement not only that there is independent evaluation—it is important for that to be in the Bill anyway—but that it is the duty of the Secretary of State to report how that independent evaluation is being carried out. These are two very significant powers that the legislation will be providing. They strengthen the existing process for the 2006 Act, which is now on the statute book. We have seen a number of the annual reports presented under the basis of that Act; they will be even stronger.

As the Minister indicated, the mechanism that we wish to assume would be in place is ICAI. The question is whether ICAI can carry out its functions as an advisory NDPB, answerable to this specific sub-committee of the Commons International Development Committee, or whether it is required to be on a statutory footing for the exclusive purpose of this evaluation. From my own position, I believe that it is not flexibility but good governance which allows the structure in place to be taken forward—with of course the view, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, indicated, that there is sufficient scope in future to improve that process even more. That will of course have to take place anyway in May 2015 because the memorandum of understanding between the Department for International Development and the Independent Commission for Aid Impact is due to be renewed, as is the framework agreement under which it operates and is accountable to Parliament.

I think that I should highlight this, because it may address some of the points which I think have been erroneously cited about whether DfID is effectively being judge and jury when it comes to evaluating this. The memorandum of understanding states very clearly that under its principles, in paragraph 2.1, ICAI should:

“Ensure independence of staff, decision-making and the process of undertaking evaluations, reviews and investigations”.

Further, in paragraph 2.5, the memorandum says that DfID should:

“Respect the independence of ICAI staff, decision-making and reports”.

Any change to that would have to be brought to Parliament—to the Commons IDC—which I have no doubt would be scrutinising it, in addition to the very fact that the renewal of this memorandum and the framework will be brought to Parliament anyway.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Butler, seeks to put in place a further hurdle before this legislation can come into force. I am afraid that we cannot support his amendment. It would take the commencement of the Bill out of the hands of this Parliament—he has made that clear, even though this Parliament has extensively debated and supported the Bill—and into the hands of Ministers in a future Government. In particular, if this amendment were carried, it would give power to a future Government to decide when to lay the necessary secondary legislation for consideration by Parliament.

This Bill has significant cross-party consensus and support. That has been evident during debate in both Houses and in the votes this morning in this House. The importance of the UK meeting its commitment to invest 0.7% of GNI and enshrining that commitment in law was in the manifestos of all the major parties which fought the 2010 election. None of the major parties has indicated that it would move away from that after the next election.

It would be entirely within the power of future Parliaments to bring forward legislation that sets out an alternative position towards the aid budget. However, this Parliament, in both Houses, has debated the Bill, supported it in the majority of votes at each stage so far, and will, I hope, ensure that the Bill passes through to Royal Assent. As noble Lords will know, to have the very act of commencement require an affirmative resolution is extremely unusual. I was going to ask my noble friend Lady Thomas whether she could think of any instances. This amendment is not in keeping with the Bill. I call on the noble Lord to withdraw it and—

[Lord Lipsey]

My Lords, I am slightly surprised by the “extremely unusual”. The House will recall that at the end of the Brown Government both Houses passed a Bill to make care of elderly people in their own homes free. Following discussion between both Houses, it was agreed that, given that the Bill was passed on the eve of the general election, it should require a resolution before it was put into effect. In normal circumstances, that sort of process would not make much sense because it would be the same Government. However, this would be a different Government. Last time this occurred, quite sensibly the Government of the day agreed to it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

As I say, this Bill, unlike the discussion on care, which I remember very clearly, has had overwhelming support. There were a lot of Divisions over how best to take care forward, as the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, acutely knows. Given the overwhelming support within the other place and, thus far, in this place, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Butler, will withdraw his amendment. If he chooses not to do so and to test the opinion of the House, I hope that the House will reject his amendment.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, this is a sunrise clause amendment before we debate a sunset clause amendment, neither of which I would accept. Commencement orders come with legislation, usually through secondary legislation to do with the administrative implementation of agreed primary legislation, but usually to do with technical aspects of proper timing for administrative or technical purposes. That is quite different from this measure. The Bill has now had more than 25-and-a-half hours of parliamentary scrutiny. It has gone through the House of Commons and has been tested by Division in both Houses. Once it is on the statute book in this Parliament the proper parliamentary manner in which this would be repealed would be for a measure to be put forward in the next Parliament to repeal it. That would have to be done in the full glare of public opinion after significant debate and, one hopes, after a degree of consensus. Funnily enough, all those aspects are why this Bill was presented to Parliament. All those aspects are there, and that is why I believe it is strong. I know that the noble Lord who put forward this amendment is not like other noble Lords who have indicated very clearly that they oppose the 0.7% target in principle. They have said that it is gesture politics and a dishcloth of a proposal. I know that the noble Lord does not hold those views, but nevertheless I do not believe that this is appropriate. Parliament will have expressed its view on the Bill. I hope that it will be enduring legislation but the proper course would be for a future Parliament to repeal it, if it so chose. Therefore I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment. If he does not do so, I would ask the House not to accept the amendment.

Syrian Refugees

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Thursday 26th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hylton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they and the host states are planning to prevent Syrian refugees becoming permanent residents in those states.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords. The UK continues to call for a negotiated political transition in Syria as the only way to end the conflict and allow refugees to return home in safety. We have pledged £800 million in response to the crisis and we are working closely with host countries to support refugees in the region.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. The whole House will know very well that many Palestinians are still stuck in the camps to which they moved in the late 1940s. Given the low capacity for absorbing Syrians into the neighbouring states, do the Government agree that maximum family reunion for Syrians, both in Europe and elsewhere, together with permanent resettlement in those countries that are open for immigration, is the best way forward?

[Baroness Northover]

Where an individual is accepted under the vulnerable persons scheme in the United Kingdom and is part of a family, we are already bringing the family with them as a unit to the United Kingdom. Those granted asylum status are also eligible for family reunion. Clearly, decisions by other countries depend on their own rules. The noble Lord is absolutely right to point to the huge problem in the region. That is why we have committed £800 million to help support the refugees in the region and, in particular, those countries that are hosts to them.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, while acknowledging the amount of money that we have put into tackling the difficulties facing, in particular, Lebanon and Jordan as a result of the vast number of refugees that they have taken from Syria, could the Minister remind us how many Syrian refugees we have taken into this country?

[Baroness Northover]

We have taken in 143 under the humanitarian protection scheme—people who, for example, have very severe medical needs—and we have taken in almost 4,000 Syrians under the asylum claims system. The noble Lord will recognise that this is a major problem and the numbers in the region are such that it is extremely important that we support the many refugees who are looking to return home.

[Lord Avebury (LD)]

My Lords, UNICEF estimates that the number of Syrian refugee children will reach 2.2 million in 2015. Does my noble friend agree that its help is key to the future of Syria? Will the Government therefore, in collaboration with UNICEF, do everything possible to ensure that these children are vaccinated, not only against polio and MMR but against pneumococcal disease and rotavirus?

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend is right. That is why we put a great deal of emphasis on both health and education—so that there is not a lost generation. Syrian refugee children are vaccinated against polio and measles when they arrive in neighbouring countries as part of the registration process. Vaccination in those camps takes place on a routine basis; it is run by local ministries but supported by the UN and NGOs. There is constant review of which diseases need to be targeted, and at the moment we are especially concerned about the resurgence of cases of polio.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, given that, as the Minister will be aware, peace agreements in this area have been done to the people, from Sykes-Picot nearly 100 years ago onwards, what contacts are the Government making with those who are in the camps and need to have a voice in the peace settlement, and in particular with women’s groups?

[Baroness Northover]

The most reverend Primate is right to highlight this. There is constant contact with those in the camps, to try to engage them in moving things forward. With regard to support for women and girls, we are acutely aware of how vulnerable they are, and we have a number of programmes to help support them. As he will probably know, we are very concerned about early marriage and so on, and those who are particularly vulnerable to that. We are trying to ensure that we link up to support those girls so that that does not happen, and seeking out leaders to help protect girls and women more widely.

[Lord Gordon of Strathblane (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that it is in Britain’s interest to give maximum aid to Italy to help it police Europe’s somewhat porous maritime border? Regrettably, not all refugees want to return home. Some of them are ISIS implants. By coincidence, I was in contact with friends in Sicily only this morning, who say that they are becoming increasingly worried by the threats of ISIS atrocities in Sicily. What are the Government going to do to help?

[Baroness Northover]

It is extremely concerning to hear what the noble Lord says about Sicily; I had not heard that. It is certainly the case that the UK is working extremely closely with all our European allies on the situation of those who are seeking to come across the Mediterranean, often in incredibly dangerous and dire circumstances.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, in her first reply, my noble friend referred to the desirability of a transfer of power in Syria. Does she recognise that the most likely recipient of any transfer of power at present would be ISIS? That would be a great deal worse than the status quo, because at least the present regime in Syria, for all its faults and misbehaviour, does not slaughter Christians because they are Christians, which ISIS does. In fact, the present regime has always had a reputation for considerable religious tolerance.

[Baroness Northover]

In my first Answer I did not mention a transfer; I talked about a negotiated political transition in Syria. As I am sure the noble Lord knows, we are engaged with moderate groups within and around Syria, helping to ensure that they work effectively together—because it is extremely important for the future of Syria that that happens.

International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Friday 6th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, as we are looking at page 2 of the Bill and the amendment of my noble friend Lord Astor, which seeks to add a further paragraph to the three issues listed in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c), one or more of which might lead the report to explain why the target has not been hit, may I ask a question of my noble friend Lord Purvis, or perhaps the Minister, about paragraph (c), which refers to,

“circumstances arising outside the United Kingdom”?

Would that include the views of the proposed recipient countries of overseas aid saying that they no longer want the aid? We had this situation with India recently, where India reviewed its relationship with Britain, felt that the relationship should mature and that far better outcomes for development and escaping from poverty would be achieved through other fiscal changes such as two-way investment flows, impact value investment and a whole range of new techniques, and therefore it did not want to go on receiving old-fashioned official aid because official aid, as a large part of the world has discovered—not, I fear, everybody in your Lordships’ House—is not the main instrument, or even the most effective instrument, for lifting people out of poverty, ending real suffering and accelerating economic growth. So if countries come forward and say, “We do not actually want this assistance”, would that be one of the,

“circumstances arising outside the United Kingdom”,

which might disembarrass the Secretary of State and enable him to explain why the target had not been hit?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, I shall respond to the questions put to me. I apologise to my noble friend Lord Astor if I did not adequately answer in my letter to him all the questions that he raised. We will get back to him with further answers.

The EU came up in discussion on earlier groups of amendments of multilateral organisations generally. I expect, or at least hope, that noble Lords will be aware that when we came into government, we undertook a bilateral aid review of every programme, which included what was then taken forward as far as India was concerned, and a multilateral aid review. We pulled back from those organisations that did not score well in the multilateral aid review. I know that the party opposite was concerned, for example, that we pulled back from the ILO on the basis of that, although it is aware that we are engaged with the ILO in Bangladesh. However, many multilateral organisations came out of the aid review extremely well, and so did the EU budget.

Earlier, noble Lords referred to what my noble friend Lord Patten of Barnes—Chris Patten—said many years ago, after which he took forward the most formidable reform programme of what EU aid did. Since then, others have built upon that, which has been extremely welcome and no doubt has brought us to the situation that we are in. I hope that I can reassure noble Lords that we remain closely engaged in trying to ensure that we get value for money from that and that all is scrutinised.

Long discussions and negotiations with the Indian Government came from the bilateral review. The aid programme in India continues to 2015. It continued over a long period and then moves to technical support. It is not something which suddenly happened. If anything, countries tend to say, “Please don’t go”, rather than “Do go”. I hope that I have reassured noble Lords in that regard.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, on that point about the use of multilateral organisations, does the Minister agree with the National Audit Office report? It states:

“The Department phased its contributions to 2 key multilateral organisations to increase 2013 ODA. The Department has used the flexibility it has over when it issues promissory notes to fund some multilateral organisations to help manage ODA. In line with OECD rules the notes count as ODA when they are issued, which is typically 2 years before they are cashed”.

[Baroness Northover]

I mentioned earlier the way in which the notes promising the assistance were carried through. Obviously, with something like the Global Fund, one might make the kind of commitment to which my noble friend Lord Fowler referred in a particular year, which then is programmed in. A programme is constructed, which we carefully monitor, to carry forward the spending of that. I would think that the noble Lord would welcome that strategic way of doing things.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords—

[Baroness Northover]

Perhaps I may make some progress.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

I would like to make some progress. I am sure that the noble Lord will come back in again. I assure noble Lords that there is flexibility in DfID’s programming and budgeting. I should like to reassure my noble friend Lord Astor of that point. It is why at the end of 2013 it was possible to respond to a typhoon, which we had not anticipated any more than anyone else had, and to the unexpected level of displaced people coming from Syria who needed to be assisted over the winter. Part of the way in which DfID responds is to have that flexibility built in.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to my noble friend. I do not mean to harass her, but she did not really deal with the point that I was making. I am not making a point that the department does not give money to multilateral organisations, often for very good causes. I was asking her to confirm that the department uses multilateral organisations where the rules on what constitutes expenditure, which in this case was two years ahead of the programme being achieved, are driven by the need to balance the budget and not by the merits of the programme and that that arises because of the lack of the flexibility for which my noble friend’s amendment would provide.

[Baroness Northover]

I understand what my noble friend is saying. I can totally refute that. If the noble Lord were to look carefully at what the Global Fund manages to achieve, because it is a large-scale operation that is able to assist in the poorest of countries with the greatest need, or if he were to look at Gavi, which deals with vaccines and vaccine research, he would see that our supporting vaccinations directly through our bilateral programmes may not be the best way to go. Working with Gates and others in a very large enterprise brings down the prices, invests in research and takes forward vaccination, which has saved millions and millions of children’s lives.

[Lord Fowler]

Would my noble friend also agree that the Global Fund is probably one of the most cost-effective organisations in the world in bringing aid? That is value for money that the British taxpayer gets.

[Baroness Northover]

I am extremely happy to endorse that.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I was not really intending to speak on this amendment, but I want to get to the bottom of this point. I entirely agree with my noble friend Lord Fowler about the importance of that programme and I pay tribute to the work that is done all over the globe in combating AIDS and to the organisations involved.

This is not about the merits of particular programmes; it is about the means by which the money is managed because of the lack of flexibility, which the amendment would provide for. Paragraph 15 on page 8 of the summary of the NAO report says:

“The need to increase spending was a factor the Department considered when it decided in autumn 2013 on the size of promissory notes it subsequently issued in December 2013 to the World Bank’s International Development Association and to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. The Department’s decision to issue more notes to both organisations in 2013 did not alter the total value of notes it planned to provide them and did not affect the content and timing of the programmes”.

So we are not talking about the programmes; we are talking about what happens as a result of having to find programmes in year where you have no flexibility. The advantage of going to multilateral organisations is that the expenditure counts towards the target when it is issued, even though it might not be incurred until two years down the line. That does not apply to bilateral programmes. Therefore, it creates a bias against bilateral programmes in circumstances where the budget needs to be managed. It is not about the merits of the programmes; it is about how the rules and the corset that is being imposed by the provisions in this Bill result in bad decisions potentially being made.

[Baroness Northover]

That was what I was refuting. The NAO report that the noble Lord quoted—I have read every word of it—found no evidence that the department had failed to follow its normal business processes. I can assure the noble Lord that business cases are put as to why DfID should support one thing rather than another. If the most cost-effective and effective way of supporting, let us say, the vaccination of children is to go through Gavi, it makes sense to do so. To have some artificial emphasis on bilateral programmes, which then reached fewer children, would be perverse. What I am saying to the noble Lord, and I hope that he will understand this, is that very thorough procedures are gone through before decisions are made. In many instances, depending on what DfID is trying to achieve, it may well be that a multilateral organisation can deliver more for the money that we put in and which we then lever also from others. I think that we have probably covered this matter sufficiently.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Before my noble friend sits down, perhaps I may get absolute clarity on this. The reports states, on page 8, paragraph 15:

“The need to increase spending was a factor the Department considered when it decided in autumn 2013 on the size of promissory notes it subsequently issued in December 2013 to the World Bank’s International Development Association and to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria”.

Is she saying that that is not correct?

[Baroness Northover]

What I am saying—I hope that it is clear—is that DfID needs to decide how it is going to spend its money. It was always known from 2010 what the trajectory was of that DfID budget. I think that the noble Lord was a member of the Economic Affairs Committee that reported in 2012 and took its evidence in 2011. At that point, that escalation had not occurred and the committee rightly expressed concern about that. However, all the reports thereafter have looked very carefully at whether that escalation was effective and value for money. It has been found to be a rigorous process.

We are now at 0.7%. We are not into escalation, but these multilateral organisations, which were stress-tested through the multilateral aid review in 2010-11, were judged to be value for money for the reasons that I have given. Bilateral programmes can be very limited in a very limited number of countries. What Gavi can do in sourcing vaccines, investing in research and so on and in involvement in many different countries can be much more effective. That is why DfID is a strong supporter of such organisations.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Astor for his amendment, for being consistent with the points he raised at Second Reading and for the manner in which he did it. I am most grateful for that, and I will attempt very briefly to address his points. In so doing, I wish to put on record my appreciation for the points that the Minister made. There are two aspects to this: forward expenditure, which is part of wider plans in existence, and the possibility of other factors which mean that, outwith the scope of the responsibility of DfID, the international target would not have been met. I suspect that that gets to the core of my noble friend’s amendment.

On the first point, paragraph 15 of the NAO report has been cited. I am sure it was an oversight that paragraph 16 was not referred to. That states:

“Promissory notes accounted for 19% of the Department’s ODA in 2013, similar to the level in 2012”.

Given the NAO’s findings, I do not think that this is an issue that needs to take up much more of our time in Committee.

Let me address the point made by my noble friend. The question is whether elements of this Bill complement the International Development (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006 and the existing mechanisms through which DfID, the Treasury and the ONS report on information to do with programme profiling, budget decisions and external factors and provide sufficient information to allow Parliament to understand why a target has not been met. With the mechanisms that we already have in place—including, importantly, Section 6 of the International Development (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006 on the methods for transparency, where there is provision to specify future allocations of aid, in addition to all the other reporting mechanisms, the work of the Office for National Statistics and the external peer review by the OECD—I believe there is sufficient work within the programme on reporting, accountability and transparency to satisfy my noble friend.

My noble friend Lord Howell made a point about potential external factors and gave an interesting reason. The Minister responded very clearly with regard to that specific case. The Bill affords freedom for external impacts to be reported and then, through Parliament, to be scrutinised fully and for Parliament to determine the justification. On that basis, I respectfully ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.

[Viscount Astor]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, for his response. Obviously I do not have Section 6 of the International Development Act at hand but I will look at it carefully and read what he said in Hansard. He certainly gave a considered response, for which I am grateful.

I am also grateful to the Minister. She said, importantly, that there was flexibility in the department, and we are all grateful for that. I would have been happier if she had been able to say that, should the Bill go through, there will still be flexibility in the department. That is the important thing that we all want and are trying to achieve.

[Baroness Northover]

I can assure my noble friend that that will still be the case: there will be flexibility.

[Viscount Astor]

I am pleased to hear that. It certainly satisfies one of my concerns. I still think that the department will have a difficult time with its two year ends. The working out will be one of the games for the accountants, if nothing else.

I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Forsyth for joining in the debate. He did something that even Lloyd George was not able to do for my great-grandfather, when he referred to me as a noble Earl as opposed to a mere Viscount. I am grateful for his support for that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

To start, I agree with noble Lords that the principle of independent evaluation is extremely important. It is important that ODA provided by the United Kingdom represents value for money. That is key to this legislation. Of course, the Independent Commission for Aid Impact is independent: it decides what it wishes to do. We heard some important criticisms from my noble friend Lord MacGregor of some of DfID’s work, which should reassure noble Lords that DfID will not go unscrutinised. However, the effect of the amendment could be to limit the current range of scrutiny options available, including the National Audit Office—which the noble Lord quoted extensively.

The Bill already asks the Secretary of State to include in each annual report a statement as to how he or she has complied with the duty under this clause. The annual report is already subject to scrutiny by both the National Audit Office and the International Development Committee in the House of Commons. The Independent Commission for Aid Impact also scrutinises what DfID does. Noble Lords are right that the duty to ensure independent evaluation is an important part of this legislation. However, we do not feel that tying that function to one particular agency is the answer.

As noble Lords will know, the IDC holds public hearings to take evidence—for example, on every ICAI report. In addition, it holds inquiries every year into ICAI’s annual reports, which again are held in public. The IDC’s recommendations are then published. Of course, the NAO has statutory responsibility for doing value for money studies on DfID’s work. The NAO reports to the PAC, which also makes recommendations about DfID’s work, in addition to ICAI.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

I was puzzled when my noble friend said she does not believe that there should be a particular organisation responsible for this. The Bill as originally published specifically set out an independent organisation to do this job. That is very important. When the amendment to remove that was discussed in the other place, at no time did my noble friend’s counterpart there say that the reason it was being removed was because they did not want just one body doing it. They said they did not want to set up an additional body. What we suggest is not an additional body but an existing one. Clearly the job needs to be done and it needs to be specified in the Bill how it is done.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

When the Bill was introduced, there was considerable concern about duplication because ICAI existed. It is highly likely that ICAI will be the body that undertakes the reviews. My concern is simply to ensure that we do not exclude the operation of the other bodies that I mentioned—in particular, the NAO, which the noble Lord seems very much to appreciate.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to my noble friend, but what then does Clause 5(2) mean when it states:

“The Secretary of State must include in each annual report a statement as to how he or she has complied with the duty under subsection (1)”?

By the way, I do not know why we have “he or she”, because the rule is laid down that you do not need to provide for both genders in statutory legislation.

[Baroness Northover]

As a former Equalities Minister, perhaps we should take through some legislation saying that it is perfectly possible to have “he or she”.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am just saying that the guidance given does not provide for that. If she wants to change the guidance, I would be very happy to support that; I am just making the point that it is not consistent with other legislation.

Very cleverly, my noble friend has diverted me from my main point—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Yes, very stupidly, I have diverted from my main point. As we are here discussing not equality legislation but overseas aid, can my noble friend explain why it is necessary for the Secretary of State in each annual report to include a statement about how the Secretary of State has complied with the duty under subsection (1)? Surely that duty should be complied with immediately, not subject to some annual review.

[Baroness Northover]

I think that we are talking about equality legislation here—greater equality between well-off and less well-off countries and, in particular, the position of women and girls.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

That is a very important point, but can my noble friend answer my question, which is: why is it necessary to have in each annual report a statement as to how the Secretary of State has made,

“arrangements for the independent evaluation of the extent to which ODA provided by the United Kingdom represents value for money in relation to the purposes for which it is provided”?

Surely she should have those arrangements in place, or is the intention that they should go on for ever and never be completed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

Noble Lords can be totally reassured that DfID will continue to be fully scrutinised. My noble friend, who is the owner of the Bill, is about to explain that in detail.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, as I hope that the House will appreciate, the sponsors of the Bill are responsible for drafting. I know that my noble friends will have read the report of both Committee and Report in another place, where those points were raised and responded to. My right honourable friend Michael Moore was perfectly clear in another place when he said that when he first proposed the Bill and consulted on it, it was an open, public consultation. At that time, he said in another place:

“I said on Second Reading that I thought the independent international development office proposed to fulfil the important function set out in the Bill was a good model, but that I was open to suggestions as to how it might be improved”.—[Official Report, Commons, International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill Committee, 11/11/14; col. 35.]

Far from it being either mysteriously changed or rushed, there was proper parliamentary scrutiny in another place at Second Reading, in Committee and on Report, where the Government did not accept the amendments proposed by Mr Nuttall, et cetera, because it was felt that there was a more effective way to answer the valid points that my noble friend Lord MacGregor has cited. Let me turn to them.

What is the fundamental question that the Bill is asking? In addition to the 2006 legislation, is there for the first time independent evaluation of the value for money of United Kingdom ODA? The Bill will afford that. It goes further. It states that there is a duty on the Government to come to Parliament to explain annually how that independent evaluation is being carried out. That answers the second question raised: not only is there provision for independent evaluation but Parliament will be receiving from government, on an annual basis, how that independent evaluation is carried out. Subsection (2) is a considerable safeguard to Parliament for effective scrutiny of the independent evaluation.

This means that we come to whether a new body is created or ICAI is put on a statutory footing. When we look at all the consideration of how this independent evaluation can be carried out, not necessarily but potentially by one body and informed by the National Audit Office or other bodies, I think it is right that the Bill simply states that the principle for that evaluation will be carried out with flexibility as to what body or bodies will carry out that function. It is important that Parliament should have the ability to scrutinise properly that independent evaluation and how it is carried out. As the sponsor in this place, I cannot accept the amendment but I understand why my noble friend spoke to it. I believe that the elements in the Bill afford that protection.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord for answering the question which the Minister did not answer in respect of Clause 5(2). He is saying that the Secretary of State will produce an annual report on how he or she is being evaluated. That is not independent scrutiny and reporting. What is needed is an independent body which looks at the department and reports to Parliament, not to the Secretary of State. It is very helpful that the noble Lord should have answered this point because he is saying that Clause 5 effectively says, “The Secretary of State will decide who is going to hold him or her accountable for the programme of overseas development aid, then the Secretary of State will on an annual basis report to Parliament on how well the people reporting on him are doing”. That is a nonsense.

[Baroness Northover]

Do noble Lords have the Bill here? Perhaps my noble friend might bear in mind that the Secretary of State already has to make an annual report to Parliament, under previous legislation. Clause 5(1) says that:

“The Secretary of State must make arrangements for … independent evaluation”,

which is what we have been talking about and is indeed extremely important. Clause 5(2) says that:

“The Secretary of State must include in each annual report”—

the annual report that the Secretary of State is giving to Parliament—

“a statement as to how he or she has complied with the duty under subsection (1)”;

in other words, that the independent scrutiny of ODA has been carried out and that it is 0.7%. I think that the noble Lord is missing the point about the annual report, which is already in legislation and which the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to the Minister. She says that the Secretary of State has to make an annual report, which is correct, and that the annual report will enable people to look at how well they are complying with the 0.7% and the rest.

[Baroness Northover]

No, I am bringing my noble friend back to the fact that the Secretary of State makes an annual report to Parliament anyway, under the 2006 Act. That is an annual report not about how they have been independently scrutinised but about what DfID has done. I am sure that the noble Lord has seen those reports.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market]

My Lords, it may seem a little odd, having been somewhat critical of how independent the Independent Commission for Aid Impact might be, to suggest that the Secretary of State should rely on that commission to set up an independent inquiry into independence, efficiency, and effectiveness. I do not wish to press this amendment; I am just seeking answers from the Minister.

In our Economic Affairs Committee report in March 2012—I accept that quite a lot could have changed since then—we were a bit concerned about the effectiveness of the Independent Commission for Aid Impact. It had only just been set up, so it was very early days, but I wanted to mention one or two of the points we made then, to enable the Minister to give us assurances that the concerns we had then should no longer be concerns.

We said that we were,

“concerned that the Commission is not in practice fulfilling the role which it has been given”.

That was largely based on the oral evidence that we received at the time in our inquiry, which failed to convince the committee that it was appropriately resourced for the work with which it was charged. That is a very important issue as regards our discussion on the previous amendment. How much the independent evaluating body is resourced is crucial. We went on to say that,

“it could be relied on adequately to fulfil its role. These are early days for ICAI, but we recommend that both Parliament and DFID monitor ICAI’s own effectiveness closely, and”—

this is the point—

“take steps necessary to ensure that both its work and its staffing are sufficient both in quality and in quantity for it effectively to discharge its duties”.

Therefore, the reason for tabling this amendment is to enable the Minister to reassure us on those points. I beg to move.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I reassure my noble friends in relation to ICAI that it already reports to Parliament via the International Development Select Committee in the House of Commons. The International Development Committee scrutinises ICAI’s work; it holds a public hearing every year to consider ICAI’s annual report, and a special sub-committee has been set up to take evidence after the publication of each ICAI report. The committee also approves ICAI’s work plan. Noble Lords may also be aware—and this would have happened after my noble friend’s Select Committee reported—that a triennial review of ICAI was published in December 2013 and a further review is scheduled for 2016. Triennial reviews are designed to consider whether public bodies such as ICAI are meeting good standards of corporate governance, and so on, and whether they are still needed.

In addition to the above, the National Audit Office and International Development Committee can, of course, already review the independence, efficiency and effectiveness of ICAI if they wish to do so, and also provide regular assessments of value for money within DfID to the Public Accounts Committee of the House of Commons. I hear what my noble friend says about his previous concern being somewhat ameliorated, and I hope that this will give him further reassurance.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I have nothing to add from the point of view of the sponsors of the Bill to the reassurances that the Minister has provided. They are satisfactory, and I request that my noble friend withdraw his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

It is particularly relevant to what we are debating today, and I very much hope that the Minister will address it. I am opposed to the climate change policy of this Government because its purpose is to procure worldwide decarbonisation. That means getting the poor people in the developing world, whom we have been discussing, to move away from the cheapest form of energy and, instead, to embrace, at present and for the foreseeable future, much more expensive energy. In other words, it is a policy to impoverish poor people in the developing world. That is why I am opposed to it. It seems a bizarre and odd way in which to run a whelk stall having a Bill that is intended to relieve the poverty that we intend to create. I should be grateful if my noble friend can explain that.

[Baroness Northover]

I say to my noble friend Lord Tugendhat that I never expected anything other than full scrutiny of the Bill in this House. He can be assured that I made that extremely clear within my department, as I have done on other Bills in other departments in other instances.

The key issue here is that the Bill is about ensuring that the UK continues to meet its commitment on aid, which it has finally met. I am incredibly heartened by the cross-party agreement on this. As we heard at Second Reading, we know how much this is needed. However, underlying this debate is a sense that this is not the case and that there may not, therefore, be value for money. I emphasise that the Government have a clear commitment to ensuring value for money. I know that the Economic Affairs Committee in 2012 was concerned about the planned scale-up to meet the target because there was a significant increase in the budget. Clearly, the committee was right to raise that issue. However, we have now completed the scale-up to 0.7% and a number of external bodies have looked at this, including the December 2014 DAC external peer review, which said of our scale-up that our,

“Well planned … implementation was carefully monitored … and at the same time, strong efforts were made to avoid compromising the quality of the ODA programme, and progress towards results was regularly reviewed”.

In addition, we have strengthened the evidence base and procedures for project investment decisions. All proposals must have a business case, with proposals for projects of £40 million and above being subject to review through the department’s quality assurance unit. We have invested in strengthening programme management processes, capability and systems to transform the way in which we deliver programmes so that we are better able to tackle the underlying causes of poverty and conflict. We have introduced tighter spending controls. The threshold for ministerial approval of project business cases was reduced from £40 million to £5 million, with Ministers also approving supplier contracts worth more than £1 million. We have increased the use of payment by results. Under this approach, the department makes payments only after pre-agreed results are achieved, rather than up front. We have launched a development tracker online tool to provide more public information on UK development investment in projects. The department has also been commended for its openness. We have also talked in other amendments about the external scrutiny that occurs. I therefore hope that noble Lords are reassured about the level of scrutiny and what we have put in place within DfID.

There may be, at heart, disagreement here. Does the world still need this assistance or not? In terms of value for money, the assumption that because the budget has increased it would therefore be poor value for money needs to be challenged. As to the comments of my noble friend Lord Lawson, I am happy to engage on climate change, but perhaps not now.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the points that have been made. I hope that my noble friend considers that there has been proper consideration of all these issues in Parliament and that he does not feel that some Members of this House have a greater right than others to take part in any of the proceedings—whether because of age, experience or anything else.

The Bill repeals only one section of the 2006 Act, which is why I was exploring the existing duty within that Act on Ministers to report. The section that would be repealed requires,

“each annual report to include an assessment of the year in which the 0.7% target is expected to be met”.

However, as I have said on a number of occasions today, because this Bill maintains the position that the target will be met, it will, in addition to the provisions in the 2006 Act, be the mechanism for reporting going forward. Therefore, is it appropriate to include the noble Lord’s amendment in the Bill, or are the provisions in the 2006 Act and in this Bill the correct mechanisms for reporting?

I believe that the mechanisms in the Bill, in addition to those already on the statute book, are appropriate and that the criteria on effectiveness, potential corruption, whether the ODA budget is meeting the UN development goals and all the undertakings that we have made to international organisations—and, indeed, on value for money—are already covered by the 2006 Act and the independent evaluation that will be provided in the relevant reports. On that basis, I invite the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Friday 6th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

I very much support my noble friend Lord Tugendhat’s amendment. In the spirit of my noble friend Lord Cormack, I certainly do not intend to speak for very long.

The first point that my noble friend Lord Tugendhat made was one of transparency. He made the point, quite rightly, that we measure everything else in terms of GDP rather than GNI. If we want to take the public with us it seems to me to be very sensible to use GDP rather than GNI. Let us be honest: the reason why people support this Bill with the enthusiasm they do is because they want to be seen to be generous with other people’s money. We all like people to be generous with their own money; it is slightly different when they are being generous with other people’s money. As that is the purpose of the Bill, we might as well make it as clear as we possibly can by using GDP rather than GNI.

My noble friend Lord Tugendhat also made the point that the difference between GNI and GDP is very small at the moment. In that case, this is a unique and wonderful opportunity to use GDP instead of GNI before the two indices start to part from each other. We have no idea what might happen in the future; the economy of this country may change and it may well be that we start getting less money if GNI starts to increase above GDP.

If we really want to nail this down, I say to my noble friend the Minister that this is a wonderful opportunity to embrace the amendment and get it on GDP, which everybody understands. That also means that we then guarantee that the 0.7% figure means something in the future, if that is what the Bill and the House desire.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, I intervene briefly at the invitation of my noble friend Lord Forsyth. Amendment 2, proposed by the noble Lords, Lord Tugendhat, Lord Lipsey and Lord Forsyth, seeks to change the 0.7% target from GNI to GDP. If my noble friend Lord Forsyth was addressing me in seeking a reaction from the Front Bench—he did say “she”—he must have misheard. I made no comment. I would not have dreamt of doing so as a comment on what he was saying, even though I have found that reading economics textbooks to my dyslexic son has helped to inform me.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

That does not make it better.

[Baroness Northover]

Being somewhat short, I could not see who was over there and who my noble friend might have been addressing.

Obviously I take very seriously what my noble friends have put forward. I emphasise that the commitment to invest 0.7% of GNI in ODA is an international commitment that is reported to and monitored by the Development Assistance Committee of the OECD. The UK reports on this basis to the DAC, allowing comparison across donors. To aim at an alternative ODA target for the United Kingdom based on GDP would not only lead to multiple definitions, but create confusion. It would also undermine our intention to fulfil our international commitments. This is an international target; it would reduce our credibility and moral weight that our commitment to the 0.7% target carries with our international partners—I have encountered widespread support for the move to the 0.7% target that we have taken—which would limit our ability to press other donors to meet their obligations, for example, to the Global Fund, which my noble friend Lord Fowler mentioned. This would not be helpful or in the spirit of our commitment to the world’s poorest. Gross national income became the preferred measure of measuring a country’s wealth in 1993.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I think my noble friend would acknowledge that the target originally set by the UN was GDP. This is a genuine question: could she explain to the House when and why it was changed from GDP to GNI on an international basis and why it is necessary for us to adopt GNI, given the implications that that would have in future, as my noble friend pointed out, of possibly less money being available and less certainty?

[Baroness Northover]

Certainly. GNI became the preferred method of measuring a country’s wealth. As I said, we are meeting an international target.

[Lord Cormack]

I do not dispute the truth of what my noble friend said, but could she tell us when and why this change came about?

[Baroness Northover]

I think I just said when this change occurred. I emphasise too that the budget is subject to annual scrutiny, as my noble friend Lord Purvis said in the debate on the previous amendment.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed]

My Lords, I regret that I cannot accept my noble friend Lord Tugendhat’s amendment. Let me explain why. In doing so, perhaps I may correct my noble friend Lord Forsyth and address specifically the point from my noble friend Lord Cormack.

Paragraph 43 of UN Resolution 2626 from 1970 is the target that we have been debating consistently in this country. Indeed, it is the foundation of the Bill. I shall quote from it and perhaps that will answer the question. It states that each economically advanced country,

“will exert its best efforts to reach a minimum net amount of 0.7 per cent of its gross national product at market prices by the middle of the Decade”.

It does not say “gross domestic product”. As the Minister clarified, the UN system of national accounts adopted by the United Kingdom in 1993, during which I think my noble friend Lord Forsyth was a Minister in the Government, had GNI as the successor of GNP as the accepted international comparator of national economic activity. He will know, as he indicated to the Opposition Front Bench, the difference between GDP, which includes foreign economic activity within the territorial area of Britain but excludes those operations owned by Britain externally, and GNI, which includes those and has therefore been considered to be the standard economic comparator. To address the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Tugendhat, that was adopted by the United Kingdom in 1995—I think that my noble friend was in the Cabinet at that point—for European Union payments and as a standard for European Union classifications. I think that he may well have been commenting on that late last year.

As that is now the adopted framework within the OECD and a successor to the obligation that we made in 1970, any change to the Bill would be a retrograde step, as the Minister explained, because under our obligations in the OECD we would still have to report on GNI anyway.

With that explanation, and having answered the noble Lord’s specific point, I hope that he will withdraw his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom]

I follow my noble friend Lord Howell on the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Cashman. He is absolutely right that economists indulge themselves in a form of science that is not exactly reputable. Some noble Lords may remember the letter written to the Times by, I think, in excess of 360 economists, who said that the Thatcher economic policies were absolutely doomed to pitch this country into constant recession. That was the turning point for the economy in the United Kingdom, and things really took off from there. We are very much at home with him on that.

The noble Lord also spoke about how we should feel enormous compassion for those in great need in places in Africa and so forth. We all very much sympathise with where he comes from there, but the point has already been made in this debate that only 10% of what goes to these countries comes from development aid programmes. The rest comes from investments made in these countries. Let us face it: what is really going to make a difference in a desperately backward country such as the Democratic Republic of Congo is the fact that the Chinese are prepared to put in extensive railway and road networks in return for copper and cobalt concessions in that country. These are the things that will really make a dramatic difference in a country such as the DRC. In terms of relativity, development aid programmes are merely a pinprick compared with what is being invested in return for mineral resources.

To return to the amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, is right that this is not about economics. This is much more about accountancy. Some people will argue that accountancy is one of these other rather faulty arts, rather than a science, but I think it comes nearer to being a science than an art. What we are talking about here is how you manage money effectively. It must surely be right that you can take somewhat longer to meet a programme, rather than restricting yourself to 12 months. People who support this Bill have not really answered my noble friend Lord Forsyth’s point about 40% of the budget being spent in November and December of a year because it is bumping up against the end of the financial year. This should strike an enormous amount of disquiet in people’s minds, because it suggests to anybody that the expenditure of this money is being rushed. No control is being put in—we are just trying to meet targets to show that we spent all this money, and where the money goes is of much less concern.

I spent a certain amount of my youth in the army in Kenya. After independence, one of the famous elements of Kenyan politics was the Wabenzi, people in government who drove around in Mercedes-Benzes, many of which had been paid for of course by development aid money. One has to recognise that, in these sub-Saharan African countries, the elements of corruption are very great indeed and there is no respect for development aid programmes. People do not say, “This is being brought into my country to aid the poor, therefore I will not put my hands on it”. The fact is that those in charge manage to get hold of an awful lot of that money, which is why so many of them are driving around in Mercedes-Benzes today.

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, in considering this group of amendments, I hear what my noble friends are saying about seeking to help the Government to manage our spending on official development assistance in a more flexible and predictable manner. However, these amendments, if carried, would have significant disadvantages, in our view, not least in terms of the flexibility and predictability noble Lords are seeking to promote.

First, as has been made clear previously, there is a need for an internationally consistent approach. The OECD DAC is made up of 29 members, and to ensure that monitoring and reporting of DAC members’ budgets is consistent and can be reported transparently, the DAC has decided to monitor ODA on the basis of single calendar years. If the UK moved to a five-year average, the UK would still have to submit annual ODA information to the OECD DAC. The need for consistency and clarity is essential. Importantly, using an alternative definition would also undermine the weight that our commitment to 0.7% carries with our international partners, as I mentioned before.

It is also important to note that the department already manages to an annual target, as does any other government department—as the noble Baroness, Lady Farrington, mentioned—in order to deliver within annual budgets. Therefore—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords—

[Baroness Northover]

I think I had better continue. I am sure the noble Lord will wish to come in later. Therefore, a five-year target would not add additional flexibility. We have had reference to spending at the end of the 2013. I underline what my noble friend Lord Fowler said about the commitment to the Global Fund. I know how long it took to get that decision made and out, and the importance of that decision and the commitment that we made. I would also add, as I did at Second Reading, that it seems, perhaps, to have been set aside.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords—

[Baroness Northover]

I am not going to give way. I will carry on in the interests of time. We also faced Typhoon Haiyan and an unexpectedly high increase in the number of refugees fleeing violence in Syria and facing the winter in the open. I have read the NAO report. The NAO, in its scrutiny, found no evidence that the department failed to follow its normal business processes—and it looked very carefully indeed at those. For example, the report says:

“The Department took positive steps to prepare for the 33% increase in its budget in 2013-14”.

It also says:

“The Department’s decision to issue more notes to”,

the Global Fund and the World Bank,

“in 2013 did not alter the total value of notes it planned to provide them and did not affect the content and timing of the programmes”.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I am most grateful to my noble friend for giving way. I think that her argument is that, if the department spent, say, 0.8% one year, 0.6% another year and 0.9% the year after that but it met the 0.7% target over the five years, that would not be acceptable because it would look odd in the OECD statistics. As the vast majority of OECD members are nowhere near 0.7%, why is that a problem?

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend has made his case very clear and others have, too, but we are managing the budget over a longer period in a way that it can hit those targets in those specific years. We have mechanisms to ensure that we spend our money in a strategic and long-term way. Noble Lords are very familiar with that—not least my noble friend Lord Fowler—and it does not require that kind of potential splurging at the end of the year in order to hit the target. We make annual contributions to a number of multilateral bodies and those are organised using the notes system that I have just mentioned, which allows a note to be counted as aid when issued but it is not cashed until the money has been properly spent in the fullness of time. This means that the department has the flexibility that it needs, as other government departments do, to arrange its accounting to fulfil its obligation to spend at the 0.7% target.

My noble friend Lord Tugendhat, in withdrawing the previous amendment, clearly did not feel that I had adequately answered his question about the OBR. I apologise if I did not answer adequately, and I will look very carefully at what he said and write to him if I need to clarify anything further. However, I hope that I answered his question on whether GNI is an international standard, as I went into that in some depth. Clearly, the target does not change the way that departmental budgets are reconciled with each other—that is not a challenge that we encounter. The ODA GNI figure is a national statistic and the methodology has been agreed by the Office for National Statistics. We are bound by that methodology, which is agreed and overseen by the ONS, which is the appropriate body to deal with that.

I remind noble Lords that the International Development (Reporting and Transparency) Act 2006 established a duty on the Secretary of State to lay before each House of Parliament an annual report about the UK’s development efforts and spending, including reporting on progress towards meeting the 0.7% GNI target for ODA. Therefore, there is such an annual accounting in law anyway. Maintaining DfID’s accountability for tracking and reporting on its own spending to Parliament is more appropriate, both from a governance and a practical point of view, than putting such a responsibility on the Office for Budget Responsibility. If we were to do that, this would seem to be outside the current mandate of the OBR and might require revision of the 2006 Act.

Clearly, spending needs to be fully scrutinised, as the right honourable Margaret Hodge and the honourable Peter Luff said, and my noble friend Lord Purvis has outlined the very thorough and independent way in which that happens. I thank my noble friends Lord Howell, Lord Brooke and others for their wonderful tributes to DfID on the way that it manages this. Indeed, DfID is at the forefront of how best to assist in developing countries, which will undoubtedly change, and needs to change, over time.

Although I understand the intentions behind these amendments, I urge noble Lords to reject them.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Before my noble friend sits down, one point on which it would be helpful if she could come back—possibly we could discuss this on Report—is the question of what is “ODA-able”, to use an ugly phrase. The Development Assistance Committee of the OECD is in constant debate, even now as we are debating this Bill, about the new definitions that are required of what is “ODA-able”, or acceptable within the targets, and what is not. How does that link in with the concept in this Bill of the one-year, annual discipline? How will we enable the Bill to be effective in the light of the debates on changing the rules on “ODA-ability” that are raging on in the Development Assistance Committee—and, I suppose, in Whitehall—as she very well knows?

[Baroness Northover]

I do not need to come back on Report, because I hope that I can answer my noble friend now. I find it immensely helpful that there is a definition of ODA. My noble friend is right that there is discussion of whether the definition needs to be updated, but the definition as drawn at the moment, which is what we answer to, is a very useful device because it makes clear that you cannot spend money on, for example, tanks or whatever someone might feel would be a useful way of spending the money. Therefore, from my perspective, it is a very useful discipline. There are certain things you can do within ODA, and it has to support the poorest and development. The noble Lord has probably seen the definition of what is excluded, as have I, and I frequently look at it. That serves as a useful discipline because, should DfID be asked to pass money to some department to do something which it feels is not appropriate, it is easy to point out that that does not fit within ODA and it would therefore mean that we would not meet the 0.7% target.

It is true that the OECD is at the moment giving consideration to whether we need to update this given the involvement, not in military offensives and so on but in what is now done internationally in terms of peacekeeping. However, that has not yet been decided. I am glad that the OECD is looking at what might be appropriate but I do not believe that any conclusion that the OECD comes to will be at variance with the basic commitment to support development in the poorest countries and of the poorest people.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

As I understand the Bill, it places a duty on the Secretary of State to meet the target. If the target is not met, there has to be a report to Parliament. Clause 3 states:

“The only means of securing accountability in relation to the duty in section 1 is that established by the provision in section 2 for the laying of a statement before Parliament … Accordingly, the fact that the duty in section 1 has not been, or will or may not be, complied with does not affect the lawfulness of anything done, or omitted to be done, by any person”.

Does that mean that the impact of the Bill is that, if the target is not met, all the Secretary of State has to do is lay a Statement before Parliament and then there is no further sanction against the Government? Or am I missing something?

[Baroness Northover]

I am sure that my noble friend Lord Purvis will address this issue. It is a Private Member’s Bill and the Government support it as it stands, unamended.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

I hope very much that my noble friend Lord Purvis will give a full and complete answer to the important question which my noble friend Lord Forsyth has just put. As to what the Minister said, I find myself wholly unconvinced. She did not seem to understand the purpose of these amendments.

Before I comment on that, I must respond to the impassioned interventions of the noble Lord, Lord Cashman. He was concerned about how the reluctance to pass the Bill, almost sight unseen, will be considered outside the House. He made an emotional speech. It is true, as I said, that the Bill is a triumph of gesture politics over good government. How it is seen outside the House I do not know, but I am not aware of overwhelming popular support in the country for the Bill. Indeed, my impression is that it has minority support. However, leaving aside the question of whether you believe gesture politics is more important than good government, our responsibility as a House is with good government and we should not be diverted from that. Whatever misleading remarks the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, may care to make, it is our responsibility to promote good government, and that is the purpose of these amendments.

Ebola

Baroness Northover Excerpts

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what recent progress they have made on tackling Ebola in West Africa.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for International Development (Baroness Northover) (LD)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is leading the international response to the Ebola crisis in Sierra Leone. It is clear that this strategy is working. There are signs that the infection rate is falling in Sierra Leone. This is real progress and a cause for cautious optimism that we can beat this disease. We remain focused on defeating the outbreak completely.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, just before Christmas, Professor Chris Whitty, chief scientific adviser to DfID, said in evidence to the Public Accounts Committee in the other place:

“There is a high chance that when we look back on this epidemic more people who did not have Ebola will have died as a result of the Ebola epidemic”.

Does the Minister agree that this reinforces the case for universal healthcare systems, free at the point of access, and that we should use this language in a stand-alone health goal in the forthcoming UN negotiations to replace the MDGs?

[Baroness Northover]

It is clear that there have been problems with other diseases in the affected areas, as people have not come forward for treatment, so the noble Lord is absolutely right. It is extremely important that in the future we take forward the strengthening of their health provision—that is clearly necessary. It is essential when the new SDGs are agreed that health is there, underpinning what happens in terms of human development.

[Lord Cameron of Dillington (CB)]

My Lords, do the Government have any plans for a post-Ebola crisis in Africa? Owing to transport and communications breakdown and to movement restrictions, farmers have not been able to sell last year’s harvest and they therefore do not have the cash to buy the inputs for the following year’s harvest. Therefore, it is at the next harvest—that is, this year—when the real nutritional crises are going to start in all the countries of west Africa. I hope that the Government are making plans to deal with that inevitable crisis.

[Baroness Northover]

The international community is well aware of the challenge that the noble Lord has mentioned. The UNDP will complete its regional Ebola recovery assessments by the end of February. Those will be comprehensive and address those kinds of questions.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

My Lords, during a pastoral visit to Sierra Leone in mid-December, I heard affirmation of the extraordinary commitment of British forces and British work in that country. There was much expression of admiration and gratitude. There was also much concern about future outbreaks of Ebola. What thinking have the Government given to how future outbreaks might be prevented?

[Baroness Northover]

I am very pleased to see the most reverend Primate in his place—a number of us were extremely concerned when he came back from Sierra Leone and was not himself well, so it is great to see him here. He is absolutely right: the international community is focusing on trying to ensure that we do not find ourselves in this situation again. The WHO has looked at its own reform and other international bodies will too, but it is vital that we learn the lessons of this particular epidemic.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, the pharmaceutical industry claims that the reason why an Ebola vaccine had not been developed was that the number of victims was likely to be small compared to, for example, malaria. Does it have nothing to do with the poverty of the people affected or their inability to pay a market price for the drug? Does my noble friend agree that, but for the heroic efforts of hundreds of mainly local health workers, the Ebola outbreak could have become a pandemic, with possibly millions of victims, all for the want of a vaccine? Are the Government pressing industry to accept, in poor countries, production costs-plus payments for the vaccine, as happens for AIDS treatments in poor countries, with significant success?

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend is right that there are models for how this might be taken forward and he is right that there were real risks of a pandemic. The United Kingdom and its NHS workers have actually played a pretty key role in stemming that, so that it did not become a pandemic. Certainly, in terms of the development of vaccines, that is another area that we need to investigate.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, we have known about Ebola for 40 years, yet we still have no vaccine and no cure. Does the Minister agree that the cost of bringing that drug forward and taking it through the necessary regulatory process means that pharmaceutical companies prefer to focus on the diseases of the rich than on poor people’s diseases in Sierra Leone?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

I am quite encouraged by what is happening in terms of vaccines for Ebola. As the noble Baroness might be aware, clinical trials have already started in Liberia, and the UK and the CDC are looking at rolling out trials in Sierra Leone.

[Viscount Ridley (Con)]

My Lords, while congratulating the brave volunteers who have done so much to bring this epidemic under control, and while it is good news that there is light at the end of the tunnel, would my noble friend consider asking the World Health Organization to publish its internal review on why the early response to this epidemic was so bad and why it downplayed the problem when it had already become known to other agencies?

[Baroness Northover]

I am sure that there will be continued discussion as to the lessons we must learn. However, it was welcome that the WHO held a special session to look at some of those lessons and try to take that forward.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, while welcoming the progress that the noble Baroness outlined and the recognition that I understand is to come of British citizens who contributed to that progress, would she agree that the next phase of the fight in Sierra Leone will be even more challenging: not to let up on the drive to zero cases in the current outbreak; to make up for the healthcare that has not been given in terms of immunisations, maternity and neonatal care, malaria and NTDs; and to provide the structures for robust responses to any outbreaks that might occur in future?

[Baroness Northover]

Indeed, the noble Baroness is right that we cannot be complacent. As I am sure she knows, we need 42 days of an Ebola-free situation in all the relevant countries. We then need to reconstruct. That needs to be transparent and accountable. When I met the relevant Ministers from Sierra Leone, that was certainly something I emphasised from the UK Government.