(3 days, 14 hours ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I thank the Government for this Statement, and the technical expert group—TEG—at IBCA for its detailed report, which sits behind the proposed changes to the scheme outlined in the Statement. There are many victims who will be reassured by most, though perhaps not all, of the changes.
It is good news to hear that over 3,000 people have now received an offer of compensation, and I note that the Statement says payments have been made to all eligible groups. Can the Minister say how many of that number are from the affected group? While accepting that the Government’s priority has been to secure compensation for infected victims first, it is still true to say that a number of the affected victims are themselves frail and elderly, or, worse, very ill. Does IBCA have a date by which the scheme will be up and running for all affected victims, and will those I have outlined be prioritised as an urgent group?
It is very good news that the Government are removing the 25% deduction applied to past care compensation, which is exactly what Sir Brian Langstaff’s inquiry recommended, but why has it taken well over a year for this decision to be made? Since the spring of 2024, one of the issues that I and others have repeatedly raised with the last Government, as well as with this one, is that the state should not claw back any past benefits, including care costs, from these families who have had to turn to benefits and care support because of a fundamental failure of the state. In so doing, they—both infected and affected—lost jobs, their careers and sometimes their homes, and, much worse, had to live on the breadline for many years. To penalise them at the compensation stage was cruel, so it is good that the deduction is stopping.
However, the bigger point stands, and I know the Minister will recognise this, as she and I often talk about the bigger picture of other schemes as well. This governmental approach is seen in other schemes, and too often the change comes after extended delays. Further, trust with the victims has been lost. Will the Government please rethink this approach in future schemes before decisions are made?
A further point on the care award is that it is not clear whether affected victims who were carers are yet recognised in their own right, or whether the entirety of the care award, including the carer’s element, will remain solely with the estate of the infected person. I wonder if the Minister can update the House.
The changes outlined in the TEG report follow on from the complications of a number of different schemes over many years in the past, using different matrices, and indeed through devolution. Many, especially the ones relating to psychological damage, are welcome. Before Christmas, the TEG published details of how to handle historic suicide in the compensation scheme. The wording of that paragraph in the report has caused real consternation and distress among victims, both the infected and the affected, especially those who have already lost loved ones who were infected to suicide.
The commentary paragraph in the TEG report outlines the complexity of suicide and recognises that it is retraumatising for a family member to have to raise it with IBCA. However, it then goes on to say:
“Even with the best explanation, we believe that linking more compensation to evidence of suicide creates a risk that the Scheme is misinterpreted, and places vulnerable people at risk if they feel pressured to harm themselves to help their families get more compensation”.
Anyone who has lost a loved one to suicide for whatever reason knows that suicide is not a rational act; it is an act of desperation. To suggest that victims might resort to it solely for financial benefit as a small part of a grant of total compensation is just staggering. It has caused real distress and a further loss of trust, again. I hope that this issue can be reviewed.
Finally, it is very good news that compensation is to be given to victims treated unethically, especially the children at Lord Mayor Treloar’s School. I want to ask the Minister two questions in relation to the unethical behaviour by doctors who used infected blood in research projects without informing the victims or, if they were still children, their parents. First, are the police looking at what evidence remains? I know the NHS has said that many documents have been destroyed, but if IBCA has enough evidence to know that they were infected—and in many cases it knows when—then surely any surviving doctor should be questioned. Secondly, will IBCA ensure that there was no other unethical treatment given to people in later decades, not just those infected through the early research projects 50 years ago?
As ever, I am aware that I have asked a number of technical questions to the Minister; if the replies are not to hand, please will she write to me with them?
My Lords, as ever, I am grateful to the noble Baronesses for their thoughtful and productive points. This is a collaborative effort and we all share one goal: to get this right. I hope your Lordships can appreciate that this announcement marks a significant step towards delivering a compensation scheme that not only works better for the infected blood community but explicitly reflects the feedback and views that the community provided to the Government.
I want to take this opportunity to thank all those who responded, particularly those from the infected blood community. I know many of these responses included testimony of people’s personal experiences, and I want to assure those who were brave enough to share their stories that we are grateful and that we appreciate the additional burden this places on them. I hope our changes to the scheme announced in the House of Commons last week reflect their experiences, their bravery and their loss.
The consultation was not unanimous on every point, nor would I expect it to be. The experiences of those infected and affected are unique and variable, and I am sure that there are issues where some may still feel that their personal experience is not adequately reflected by the compensation scheme. However, I firmly believe that the changes we are making bring us as close as possible to a scheme which truly reflects the range of impacts on a person’s life, while still being deliverable within the scheme’s tariff-based approach.
For infected people, the changes will increase the amount of core compensation available and increase the options available for supplementary compensation awards. For affected people, additional compensation will be available to those eligible. I encourage noble Lords to read the full response, but, in the interest of today’s debate, I want to set out for Members of your Lordships’ House who do not follow this in necessarily the same detail as the many of those who are living through it do some of the key changes we are making.
First, I know the special category mechanism is a key issue of interest across your Lordships’ House. We are introducing a new supplementary award to give additional compensation to people who have been assessed as eligible for SCM and who can now demonstrate to IBCA that they meet the criteria. After considering the community’s views, we will now ensure that every eligible person has this award backdated to 2017, which is when the SCM was first introduced. We will increase the core injury award for several groups of affected people, including bereaved parents whose child sadly died before they turned 18, bereaved partners, and siblings affected under the age of 18. These changes give more compensation to affected people whose experience of the scandal was egregious beyond my comprehension. These awards will require no additional evidence from applicants.
The matter of unethical research, which was rightly raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, is of particular concern. Anyone who has engaged with the inquiry’s findings will know that it is one of the most shocking aspects of this scandal. We heard that the existing approach may not have compensated everyone who suffered this wrongdoing. We have therefore changed the scope of the award so that anyone treated in the UK for a bleeding disorder in 1985 or earlier will receive further compensation. It is clear from the consultation responses that the award amount offered does not reflect the harm done. We are increasing the unethical research awards. These include increasing our proposed award of £25,000 to those who attended Treloar’s to £60,000, as well as introducing a new unethical research award for those treated elsewhere for a bleeding disorder during childhood at a rate of £45,000. We are also tripling the award for those treated for a bleeding disorder in adulthood to £30,000.
The consultation also invited respondents to raise any other concerns they have with the design of the scheme. One of the most compelling things we heard was that the scheme does not sufficiently recognise the profound impact of infection during childhood. We have heard the community clearly on this matter and we will make a further change to the compensation scheme to address the feedback. We will introduce a 50% increase to the core autonomy award for people who were infected at the age of 18 or under.
Although I have set out only a few of the changes we are making, they reflect the questions asked by the noble Baronesses, and I hope they go some way to show our commitment to listening to the community and to making decisions with those impacted at the very forefront of our minds. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, in order to make these substantial changes to the compensation scheme, we will bring forward further legislation in this calendar year—although whether it will be included in the King’s Speech is slightly above my pay grade.
I turn to some of the other points raised. With regard to IBCA and the extension of the cohorts, noble Lords will appreciate, because we have discussed this in your Lordships’ House on several occasions, that there is an issue of test and learn here. IBCA was a brand new organisation established to distribute £11.8 billion-worth of compensation. That is taxpayers’ money rightly going into compensation to those people who have been affected by this heartbreaking scandal, but it is vital that we get it right. So, to make sure that we do not have to keep going back to cohorts and so that we can make this right, each new cohort is taken through a test-and-learn experience. Given the experience of IBCA up until this point—we have seen that work with the infected community—I have therefore confidence in it to take the next steps. However, nothing is fast enough, and I hope to get as much out of the door as quickly as possible.
The noble Baroness, Lady Finn, was absolutely right also to raise consistent decision-making. Training is at the heart of everything that is happening at IBCA, including how the claims managers operate and making sure that there is consistent application.
On the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, I reassure her about our prioritisation in terms of all cohorts, where we are now prioritising the elderly and those who are nearing end of life; although everyone deserves their compensation, we are doing that so that we can get it to them as quickly as possible so that they personally have some benefit from it. I look forward to discussing future schemes with the noble Baroness in great detail, and I am sure many Members of your Lordships’ House will want to look at any future schemes to see what lessons have been learned from this scheme and from others.
The noble Baroness raised a very important point about suicide. I will write to her on that, but I have heard what she has said about the paperwork. I will say only that with regard to severe psychological harm, which is the closest space which I can move to in terms of suicide, infected people who can show that their circumstances require more financial loss and care compensation for psychological harm can apply to the new award for SCM. This applies to those whose circumstances require more compensation than the core route provides but who do not meet the eligibility criteria of the existing severe health condition for severe psychiatric disorders.
I was also asked about issues pertaining to carers. If someone who provided care to an infected person is not otherwise eligible for compensation in relation to that person—for example, as an effective sibling or parent—then they may be eligible for compensation as an affected carer and will be eligible to receive an injury award and a social impact award. Otherwise, infected people can continue to give all or some of their care compensation to affected people who provide that care. In the package of changes the Government have announced, we have increased the levels of compensation available to several groups of eligible affected people, but no specific changes are being made to the compensation available to carers.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, also asked me about police investigations. The National Police Chiefs’ Council has engaged senior investigators to conduct a review of all available evidence. That work is ongoing and has proven to be much greater in volume than originally anticipated, and I look forward to hearing their findings. One of the most heartbreaking things—if you can rank heartbreak when we are talking about these issues—or perhaps challenging issues here is the fact that there are still people who should be being held accountable for their actions.
We can all agree that getting this compensation scheme right is of the utmost importance. The Government are committed to ensuring that the scheme reflects the lived experiences of those infected and affected in a way that allows for the swift delivery of compensation by the Infected Blood Compensation Authority. These things, hand in hand, go some way to delivering not only justice but, I hope, a sense of peace for the community, if that is even possible.
The reality is that no amount of money is going to fix what was so badly broken here, but, at the very least, the compensation can go some way to supporting the families affected. The community and their stories must always be put first. Sir Brian Langstaff and his team always took this approach. Following the inquiry’s closure in March, I personally thank them for the sensitivity and care with which they carried out their important work. It is with this dedication to the community’s cause over nine years that we have reached this point today, and I know noble Lords across the House echo my gratitude.
The decades of tireless campaigning and the continued determination of the community is a story of strength which will resonate for generations to come. The changes to the scheme we have discussed today will provide uplifted compensation to many infected and affected people in a way that better reflects the unique experiences of so many. Beyond the compensation scheme, I hope they also feel that this consultation has given them a voice and shown that the Government remain committed to doing everything they can to work together to truly get this right. That is, after all, the least we can do.
My Lords, I thank the Minister, because she is sincere and has done a lot to convince us that real change is happening. As ever, sadly, I have to declare an interest, as one of my sister’s twin boys was a haemophiliac who was infected with hepatitis C. He died aged 35, leaving a 10 month-old baby girl. Sadly, his mother—my sister—who campaigned for justice on the contaminated blood scandal for over 40 years died a few weeks ago so, sadly, will never see justice done.
A lot of other elderly and frail people, whom I believe the Minister raised in her response, are dying off. I want to know whether the Minister is aware that there is a great deal of concern about affected people who are not estate beneficiaries, because the Government insist that all infected claims must be processed before their affected loved ones can be considered. People are, effectively, being left to die without justice. Although the Minister raised the issue, I would like to know exactly what steps the Government are taking to prioritise estate claims of the elderly and frail beneficiaries, such as parents, ex-wives and siblings, who are not estate beneficiaries but have suffered terribly and are left waiting in prolonged anguish for the estate claim to be processed.
May your sister’s memory always be a blessing. Your tireless activism will continue in her name—sorry, it was not meant to be me who got tearful. The noble Baroness has fought tirelessly with her sister. It is important that her name, Della Ryness-Hirsch, is on the record.
On the specifics that the noble Baroness raised, I will make sure that she receives a very detailed briefing and she can have whatever meeting she likes to discuss this in very great detail, as I have said to her. But let me be clear: the Government are prioritising those people who are reaching the end of life. All cohorts have now been opened by IBCA; that includes those affected. The noble Baroness may have specific concerns on behalf of her family, but I know that she also now carries a greater weight of fighting for the memories of all those people in this cohort and to make sure that justice is not just done but seen to be done and delivered. We will work together to make sure this happens.
Lord Bichard (CB)
My Lords, there is much to welcome in this Statement and I do welcome it, although some of it is belated. But we should never forget that this scandal, tragedy, or whatever term you want to use, happened because many public servants, I am sad to say, behaved despicably.
Although I can welcome the Statement about how the inquiry and its findings are to be implemented and compensation is to be paid, I do not see much evidence across government of addressing the problems that we clearly have with standards of behaviour in public service, which I think many people do not want to acknowledge—let alone do anything about. I do not think the answer is more efficient inquiries or even duties of candour. It is quite clear that the current arrangements, codes and advice that we have are not working. The greatest testimony to the courage of the people who have been affected—I have met many of them—would be if we used this as a way of addressing failures of public service in this country.
I am sure the noble Lord will be delighted that I was appointed, seven weeks ago, to be the Minister responsible for standards in government. I am very much exploring all the issues that pertain to both the current standards regime and any changes that will need to be explored going forward. I look forward to discussing it all in detail with Members of your Lordships’ House.
The noble Lord is absolutely right that, on matters pertaining to the infected blood scandal and others, there was a failure of public servants. That is one of the reasons why the noble Lord may not think that the forthcoming duty of candour legislation will help to fix it. I truly believe it will. A great deal of this is about cultural change and about how, 31 years after their introduction, we embed the Nolan principles in all aspects of public life and make very clear the responsibilities that people have. I think people in some areas, both then and now, have forgotten their responsibilities. It is important that we ensure they are reminded of them.
My Lords, I too welcome the unethical research awards, but I want to raise something that has been raised with some of us here by the infected and affected. I recognise the uplift, but there are concerns about how those final figures were arrived at. One of the concerns is that this sets a legal precedent; God forbid that there are any future victims of unethical testing. I know that people would welcome a little more detail, perhaps not today but in writing, about how those figures were arrived at. There is concern for others, not just for the people affected this time.
The noble Baroness raises a very important point. While I pray to God that there is not another example of quite the horror of this, the reality is that this is not the only compensation scheme running; there have been other moments in our history. I will write to the noble Baroness with the detail of how we got to this point with the calculations, and to make sure about any precedents that have been set. I appreciate the concern. However, it is incredibly important that we recognise what happened at Treloar’s as well as the ongoing memorialisation that will be happening for the victims of Treloar’s.
(3 days, 14 hours ago)
Lords ChamberThat the draft Order laid before the House on 5 March be approved.
Relevant documents: 55th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and 53rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments (special attention drawn to the instrument)
My Lords, this order is a necessary measure to address the historical misapplication of the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975, which sets ministerial and other officeholders’ pay. The other officeholders are the Leaders of the Opposition in both Houses, the Speakers in both Houses, the Opposition Chief Whips in both Houses and two Opposition Assistant Whips in the House of Commons.
In 1997, a formula was introduced to link pay increases for Ministers and certain officeholders to senior Civil Service pay bands. The formula set out that ministerial salaries should be increased by the average annual change in the midpoint of the senior Civil Service pay bands. During the financial year 2023-24, the Cabinet Office identified that the formula had been misapplied. Since the introduction of the formula in 1997, the salaries of Permanent Secretaries had often been excluded from the calculation, despite the legislation not permitting such an exclusion. This technical misapplication of the law has happened under successive Administrations, over several decades. The formula was originally proposed by the Senior Salaries Review Body, which recommended that Permanent Secretary pay should not be included in the calculation for ministerial pay. The Government believe the policy that has been often applied since 1997, in line with the Senior Salaries Review Body recommendation, is the correct approach and are introducing this Order in Council to ensure the law aligns with long-standing policy.
The order performs two primary functions. First, it resets the statutory salary levels for all Ministers and specified officeholders. Given the misapplication has been applied for several decades, resetting the salaries in law provides legal clarity and a baseline for any future uplifts. These reset figures were calculated based on the average annual change in the midpoint of the senior Civil Service pay bands including the Permanent Secretary pay band for each financial year since the misapplication was identified, in line with the formula set out in the legislation.
Secondly, the order amends the formula to exclude the Permanent Secretary pay band from future calculations. This change simply formalises the policy approach that has been applied in practice, by all Administrations, for over two decades. For the initial year beginning 1 April 2026, the order sets out a transitional measure where the higher of the old or new formula will be applied to ensure that no individual is disadvantaged by the order’s retrospective effect. The impact of this order is minimal; it affects only ministerial office holders and a small number of other office holders in Westminster. Due to incomplete records, it has not been possible to determine the exact financial impact of this misapplication. Analysis shows that no individual has gained or lost a substantial amount.
I want to be clear that for Ministers, this order will result in no change to actual take-home pay. The Prime Minister has maintained the policy of freezing ministerial salaries, and Ministers will continue to waive their statutory entitlement. In fact, ministerial salaries for Members of the House of Commons have not increased since 2008. Ministerial salaries were actually cut in law, via an Order in Council, in 2011. Lords ministerial salaries have not risen since 2008 and were cut in 2011, but in 2019-20, they began to claim their full salary entitlement. They were again frozen in 2020-21 and remain so today. The other officeholders make a personal decision on whether to take the salary they are entitled to in law or to waive part of the salary in line with the ministerial salary freeze. The order therefore does affect the salaries paid to these individuals who choose to take their entitled salaries. The Government have been unable to calculate their annual pay increases while work on this order was ongoing, so we will provide back payments covering annual pay increases owed to current and former officeholders in these roles dating back to 1 April 2023.
The legislation is also linked to the salaries of the Chairman and Deputy Chairmen of Ways and Means in the other place, whose salaries increase through the same formula but are paid by Parliament. They will also receive back payments dating back to 1 April 2023. The total cost of back payments to the Government is just over £15,000. This is for the roles paid by the Government: the Leaders of the Opposition in both Houses, the Speaker in the House of Commons, the Opposition Chief Whips in both Houses and two Opposition Assistant Whips in the House of Commons. The total cost of back payments to Parliament is between £7,000 and £19,000. This is for the roles paid by Parliament: the Chairman and Deputy Chairmen of Ways and Means in the other place and the Lord Speaker.
It is important to note that the majority of the back payments represent money that would have been paid if the misapplication had not been identified. I am grateful to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments for their consideration of this Order in Council and for their respective reports. I shall briefly address the issues they have raised.
The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee noted that it has taken three years for the Cabinet Office to resolve this issue. Although a small issue, it is a complex and technical one; it is right that the Government took the time to ensure that the misapplication was addressed correctly, and I am sure that noble Lords will support this order which addresses this long-standing misapplication of the law.
The Joint Committee on Statutory Instrument has reported that this Order in Council appears to have retrospective effect without the express authority of the parent legislation. The Cabinet Office considers that the Act provides power for limited retrospection, and that the retrospective effect of this order is justified and fair. This is because backdating of salary increases is normal practice given that, for senior civil servants, salary increases are usually not known until the summer but pay increases take effect from the 1 April. In addition, as I have set out, the impact of this order is minimal, affecting Ministers and a small number of other officeholders.
In summary, the Government are bringing forward this Order in Council to address a historical misapplication of the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975, which sets ministerial and certain officeholders’ pay. This is a necessary measure to address a technical misapplication of the law and will ensure that the law aligns with long-standing policy. I beg to move.
I am grateful to the Minister for the technical explanation of a complex matter, but could she also answer a couple of relevant questions? First, what is the progress on having more Lords Ministers in receipt of salaries, after our recent discussions and legislation on extending the number of paid posts? What progress is there on helping Ministers rather more by clearer definitions of their aims and their targets, with suitable mentoring and support and, if necessary, performance reporting, so that we can all see that these well-justified salaries are indeed well justified and are resulting in better government?
I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. Like magic, I have just received the answer to one of the noble Baroness’s questions. I will address the questions as they came and start with the noble Lord, Lord Redwood.
The Bill we discussed last week is currently awaiting Royal Assent and is not yet an Act, but, on a personal level, I am awfully grateful to your Lordships’ House for passing that legislation. As the Minister for Standards in the Cabinet Office, I was here, as the noble Lord will be aware, when we discussed it. As the Minister for Standards and Conduct across government, the subject of mentoring and support in the area for which I have responsibility and more widely has been the subject of conversations I have had. I look forward to being able to bring forward recommendations when I have been in post slightly longer looking at this in the round. I reassure the noble Lord that this is under active consideration.
In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, pensions have been based on claimed salary, not entitled salary, since 2015. On the issue of forfeiture—a nice segue, if I may congratulate the noble Baroness— I will write to her with the detail but there are currently no active considerations in this space, so we will not be bringing forward an amendment to the Pension Schemes Bill, which I am sure noble Lords will be grateful of at this stage of ping-pong. Having said that, the noble Baroness raises a very important point about wider standards issues and how everything operates in the round. She and I are jointly committed to upholding the highest standards in public life, and I will write to her with all the details on her specific questions.
I thank noble Lords for their consideration of this order. Though technical in nature, the measure is essential for maintaining the integrity of our statutory framework and ensuring that the law accurately reflects decades of established policy. As I have outlined, this order is fundamentally about regularisation; we are addressing a historical discrepancy that has spanned multiple Administrations and several decades. By formalising the exclusion of Permanent Secretaries’ pay from the ministerial salary formula, we are not creating new policy. I thank all noble Lords for the points they raised in today’s debate and I commend the order to the House.
(4 weeks, 2 days ago)
Grand CommitteeMy Lords, there are many parts of the Windsor Framework, and every time I have a conversation or a briefing about it, there is always something new, and a new part of that world. However, puffins was not where I believed today’s debate was going to go. I hate to disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Empey, but I have been in post for three weeks and the power part may still yet be lacking—but I will see what I can do for him, because I would never seek to disappoint.
We have had a truly substantive and insightful debate this afternoon. I begin by thanking my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for securing this debate and for his stewardship of the Northern Ireland Scrutiny Committee. I also take this opportunity to wish my noble friend Lady Ritchie a very happy birthday.
The report we are considering today is very important, not just because of the detailed work clearly undertaken but because the engagement of businesses and civic society with Northern Ireland’s trading arrangements is important at both a constitutional and economic level. Similar themes were also developed by the very thoughtful review of the Windsor Framework conducted by my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen, and I am grateful to hear his further reflections today. There is something so special and addictive about Northern Ireland that means that those of us exposed to it become completely addicted and can never walk away from it. I think that is reflected by the fact that we have two former Secretaries of State participating today.
I have listened with great care to the contributions made from all sides of the House and I want to thank the noble Lords, Lord Dodds and Lord Caine, for reminding us of the stakes at play in Northern Ireland, both economic and cultural. Although noble Lords have different views across the diverse range of issues discussed today, a common thread has been our collective pledge to Northern Ireland’s prosperity, security and economic success, and a shared agreement that businesses, civic society, organisations and public authorities alike should have their voice heard in the very trading arrangements that necessarily underpin that success. Many specific points were raised today, and I will reflect on Hansard to see if I have missed any, but I shall endeavour to answer all the points raised.
I think it will be helpful if we place today’s discussion in context. I should first like to set out the Government’s ongoing commitment to the Windsor Framework and protecting the UK internal market—I assure the noble Lord, Lord Caine, that my speech has not been doctored—while appreciating that there can always be room for improvement. As we have heard today, not least from the noble Lord, those commitments were set out in our manifesto, and we consider them vitally important. They guide our reset with the EU, and they are our guiding approach to securing a vital new agreement with the EU that will smooth trade flows of agri-food goods. Those twin commitments are also important as they reflect the importance of trading arrangements that respect Northern Ireland’s place in the union, avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, and which work on an agreed basis with the EU.
It is only through this approach that we can give certainty to businesses and consumers in Northern Ireland on the rules that apply, as they trade uniquely across two markets. That is why it contains important mechanisms to enable participation and facilitate that voice; the ability of the Northern Ireland Assembly to scrutinise EU rules; structures for businesses and civic society to engage with the UK and EU on the framework’s implementation; arrangements for the Government and Northern Ireland Executive to work together and ensure that Northern Ireland’s voice is heard; and a periodic vote in the Northern Ireland Assembly on continuing these arrangements. The first such vote, as we heard, triggered a review of the framework that was carefully and thoughtfully conducted by my noble friend Lord Murphy with a wide range of stakeholders. The Government are now taking action on all the recommendations set out in that review.
That brings me to the real topic of today’s debate: the one-stop shop. Noble Lords are very aware, it seems, of the announced £16.6 million for an enhanced one-stop shop regulatory support service, designed to navigate the knowledge gap facing small and medium-sized enterprises. This will be operational in the next financial year, which I gently remind noble Lords begins next week. We are working to make sure that this can work. I assure your Lordships’ Committee that the one-stop shop will support GB businesses as much as it will support businesses operating in Northern Ireland. I will come on to some of the other points that were raised in relation to that shortly.
Progress has also been made on veterinary medicine—something I will again touch on, in terms of the detail raised today. The UK Government worked extensively with industry in the run-up to the end of the grace period. I am pleased to say that the transition has been without significant disruption—I am not saying there has not been any—and there have been no significant supply issues or other impacts, although we continue to monitor this closely.
It would be remiss of me not to mention that the Government have also allocated £2.25 million in funding to InterTrade UK over the next three years, led by the noble Baroness, Lady Foster—funding that will allow it to continue its vital work in advising on and promoting trade within the UK. I am sure that the work of InterTrade will assist in continuing to boost the economy of Northern Ireland, as outlined by my noble friend Lady Goudie. I remind noble Lords that Northern Ireland is the fastest-growing part of the United Kingdom. I place on record my personal thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, for her work at InterTrade UK.
My noble friend Lady Ritchie raised an important point about the role of InterTrade UK and the one-stop shop. I hope and would expect that the one-stop shop will work with InterTrade UK and other stakeholders to support trade and that this will be something that works together.
I thank my noble friend for addressing that issue, but what about InterTradeIreland, which already has a hub and could provide some beneficial information?
Given the nature of InterTradeIreland, that is a matter for InterTradeIreland and is not something I can comment on from the Dispatch Box.
With regard to the specifics of the report, in short, a lot has been done, but there remains more to do, as this report by the committee highlights. Indeed, the Government’s response to the committee’s report following the independent review shows as much. This leads me to our next steps. We are ensuring that the stakeholder engagement landscape captures a broad spectrum of businesses in a new Northern Ireland business stakeholder group—just to add to the wonderful flowchart that we saw earlier today. We are also looking at how the Government and devolved departments can conduct engagement and capture the views of industry, so that this is joined-up and gets the right outcomes earlier on.
The Northern Ireland Executive participate in all structures under the Windsor Framework, yet we acknowledge that there is more to be done between the Government and the Executive to ensure that public authorities link up and address issues with changes to regulatory proposals earlier in the process. We are therefore implementing new processes to address that and facilitate better engagement at all levels, beyond the Cabinet Office executive office working group.
Can the Minister say whether the United Kingdom will be tabling proposed improvements to the Windsor Framework as part of the reset negotiations?
The noble Lord, who has been a Member of the other place and only recently of your Lordships’ House, will be aware better than me that I am not in a position to give any detail of ongoing negotiations while they are currently ongoing. The noble Lord will be aware that the impact on Northern Ireland is key to some of the negotiations, which is why we are focusing so much effort on the SPS deal.
We will continue to welcome contributions from the Executive, including at the Joint Committee—the governing body for the Windsor Framework and the withdrawal agreement as a whole. More broadly, looking at the committee’s report, we are taking forward a new phase of the Trader Support Service, which provides vital support to businesses with goods movements. Those issues were covered in the committee’s report and, in December 2025, we set out more information on the consortium to deliver it. We are working to give greater discretion to the Democratic Scrutiny Committee; it will be allowed greater discretion over how it conducts its scrutiny and the timelines for it. We are backing this up in Brussels, increasing resourcing, as requested by the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels, so that it can provide vital perspective to the institutions there as proposals are developed and considered.
I move on to transparency and awareness. Our approach seeks to ensure that the broadest range of voices from across Northern Ireland is heard, including from business and civic society. It also ensures that there is the right space for technical engagement between government departments and their counterparts in Northern Ireland and the EU institutions. It seeks to ensure that devolved departments are equipped with the right information about regulatory proposals to consider their impacts and advise the Assembly further on Northern Ireland’s interests.
Where issues are identified, we have already shown our capacity to take action, whether domestically, where we have announced consultation activity on toy safety and chemicals labelling and ensured that the UK internal market is protected in response to concerns from industry; or bilaterally, such as on dental amalgam or the arrangements to protect the supply of pharmaceuticals. On all these issues, we have listened to stakeholders, whether they are business organisations, civic organisations or the vital work of the Democratic Scrutiny Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly.
Just as we will continue to support the scrutiny of the Windsor Framework arrangements and the rules that apply in the Assembly, and by the Independent Monitoring Panel, so too will we support the work of InterTrade UK on promoting the economic bonds and strengths of all parts of the UK, and the east-west council in developing the ties across it.
I move on to some of the specific questions in the order that they were asked and not necessarily grouped by issue. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, and the noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, touched on EUR-Lex. Although the EU’s EUR-Lex tool can be used to read and consider detailed legal terms, we recognise the need for businesses to have clear and accessible guidance. The enhanced one-stop shop we are delivering will do that, providing businesses with tailored advice to navigate those issues. We believe that this is the best way that we can support businesses with explaining the rules that apply.
I apologise for interrupting the Minister. Is she saying that something better than EUR-Lex will be part of the one-stop shop, and that legal problems will therefore be solvable through that structure?
I am. Noble Lords heard it here first. Perhaps I do have a little power, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said—or rather, the people behind me do.
My noble friend Lord Murphy touched on the SPS agreement and how important it is. We are currently negotiating with the EU on an SPS agreement to make agri-food trade with our biggest market cheaper and easier, cutting costs and removing barriers to trade for producers and retailers across the whole of the UK. The agreement will benefit Northern Ireland through the interplay with the Windsor Framework, by making a more consistent approach to agri-food and plants. We will smooth the flows of trade still further. On 9 March, the Government provided an update on the changes this would entail for businesses. This includes a call for information from businesses so that the Government can understand exactly what they need.
My noble friends Lord Murphy and Lord Hain asked about the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels and the investment provided. The Government have agreed to provide funding to this office to cover up to three additional posts to ensure that Northern Ireland’s interests are accounted for in Brussels and that EU policy-making is accounted for in Belfast.
Parity of esteem was raised by my noble friend Lord Murphy. This seems particularly apt given how close we are to the anniversary of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. We are committed to the agreement in all respects, which of course includes parity of esteem for the identities and aspirations of both communities. The application of the Windsor Framework does not shake that commitment.
Gently, I want to touch on the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Lilley. He raised many issues related to how we got to this point and the question of what is temporary. I was given a slight history lesson earlier today about how many pieces of legislation have the word “temporary” in them, and that has not exactly been an unusual part of our legislative framework historically. I gently suggest that the agreements we have been discussing today were signed by his party when in government, and my party is trying to make the Windsor Framework work for the people of Northern Ireland, which is why we are also currently in the process of resetting the relationship.
They were, of course, signed by the past Government, but they were described by the EU as temporary. That was the sole justification the EU gave for including trade with Northern Ireland in the withdrawal agreement. She cannot make a party-political point about it. She is either going to ignore the EU or believe it.
I believe my party is quite clear on our position on the EU, not least because I believe in international law and complying with our agreements.
One of the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Foster, was on veterinary medicines and the prices going up. She raised a specific case. I should very much like to hear the detail of it because to date, we do not have any evidence of prices going up.
I have written to the Secretary of State about the issue.
I have not had sight of that question and, apparently, neither has the person who gave me the answer. But online retailers continue to operate in Northern Ireland. As in the rest of the UK, prices between online retailers may vary. We recommend pet owners and others do their research to see which retailer best meets their supply.
The noble Baroness, Lady Foster, and my noble friend Lady Ritchie, as well as the noble Lord, Lord Caine, rightly raised the issue of haulage, logistics and the trusted haulier scheme. We have accepted the recommendations of my noble friend Lord Murphy, in this area and are looking at all possibilities to reduce frictions for logistics and haulage businesses on an ongoing basis. In parallel, we will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the available facilitations. The Government have also established a new Northern Ireland business stakeholders’ group as a formal means of engagement between the Government and Northern Ireland business organisations. This group includes representations from key sectors, including the Road Haulage Association, and provides a direct channel for input into technical UK-EU fora.
The noble Lord, Lord Elliott, raised the issue of animal and livestock movement. He will also be aware that I have met the Ulster Farmers’ Union and some young farmers, and this issue has been raised. The noble Lord will be aware that the best way in which to manage this will be through an SPS agreement and that is why we are seeking to move quickly to deliver on this issue, but I have heard both him and the representations made by others.
The noble Lord, Lord Jay, who previously chaired the committee, as well as the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and noble Lord, Lord Rogan, touched, as did other Lords, on the record of regulatory divergence. The Government’s priority is to deliver the enhanced regulatory one-stop shop to advise and support businesses in trading across the whole UK market. We believe that this one-stop shop is far better placed to support small businesses that face challenges. We will seek for this one-stop shop to provide regulatory alerts to businesses on changes to the rules, which we would expect to be accessible to them. The Windsor Framework and a set of online tools provided by the EU can already be used to find regulations of relevance to Northern Ireland. It is for these reasons that our response to the independent review of the Windsor Framework set out that a one-stop shop would be our focus going forward.
I apologise for interrupting the Minister again. I am a bit like a dog with a bone on this question of a database, because I am still not entirely clear that a one-stop shop answering specific queries is the same thing as a comprehensive database of all applicable laws being kept up to date, which is not static but dynamic. They are two different things, and I am not reassured by the Minister. I am sure that she responds in good faith, but I tried to suggest in my remarks that the two were conflated. I am not sure that her earlier answer to the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, fully removes my doubts on the subject.
The Government have made a decision that we will focus on helping people work with it, rather than keeping a list, so that we can make sure that people have the support they need as they try to navigate the impact on their businesses and on their trade.
I apologise for intervening again, but will the Minister agree to meet me to discuss a way in which EUR-Lex change can be incorporated in the one-stop shop, possibly including some very simple ways of using existing techniques to simplify complex legal issues?
How could I ever turn down an invitation from the noble Lord? Of course, I am more than happy to meet him to go over the debate. More importantly, officials can be there to make sure that what he wants is reflected so that we can actually make this work. We are taking a pragmatic approach to try to make this work and make it as easy as possible, while at the same time hoping to negotiate an SPS deal that takes away a great many of the issues we are talking about.
No one could doubt for a second the commitment of the noble Lord, Lord Caine, to the people of Northern Ireland and to trying to make these issues work. He touched on the issues of Safeguarding the Union and his PQs—obviously, I sign off every one. I realise that I am now over time, but I am more than happy to have a meeting with the noble Lord to discuss Safeguarding the Union, if that is acceptable to him.
I want to reassure noble Lords on some points, starting with noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, whom I assure that the interface will be user-friendly—or else—and will be focused UK-wide. The noble Baroness, Lady Foster, asked about hauliers, and I hope I have responded to her in full. If I have not, I will look at what she said and come back to her.
The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, asked me about parliamentary committees in the other place. She will be aware that how it chooses to engage is a matter for the other place, and for Parliament as a whole, but I am delighted that noble Lords had the Northern Ireland Scrutiny Committee doing this very important work. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, and the noble Baroness that we have accepted all the noble Lord’s recommendations and are seeking to implement them—one of the questions touched on that.
The noble Lord, Lord Caine, asked me about future legislation. I reassure him that we will talk about this—I would suggest in this Room, but possibly on the Floor of the House—in the next Session, subject to me now getting told off by the Chief Whip.
In conclusion, the message from this debate is clear: we must continue to listen to and act on the voices of businesses and civic society in delivering Northern Ireland’s trading arrangements. I give the Committee the continued commitment of the Government today that we will always take practical actions on concerns to protect the UK internal market and flow of goods, be that east-west or north-south. As we do so, our focus will remain on the prize of delivering real prosperity, where Northern Ireland remains one of the fastest-growing economies of the UK, in part thanks to its unique trading position and businesses having certainty about the facilitations available to move their goods under the Windsor Framework.
However, I am aware of the ongoing complexities of how this is operating on the ground and, on that basis, I will visit Northern Ireland very soon. Noble Lords, especially those in Northern Ireland, will be aware that I am not allowed to say exactly when, but I will be in Northern Ireland imminently to see how the Windsor Framework is operating on the ground. I will meet key stakeholders who are delivering this, as well as businesses, to see what next steps the Government should consider.
The Government will support only those trading arrangements for Northern Ireland that protect its place in the UK and its internal market, avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland and can be agreed. While there is more to be done to ensure that Northern Ireland’s voice is heard in London, Belfast and Brussels, the Windsor Framework really does provide the best basis for that, and we are committed to working alongside our partners in the Northern Ireland Executive and the EU institutions as we take it forward, alongside new agreements with the EU, so that we may build an even brighter and more prosperous future for people in Northern Ireland and across the whole United Kingdom.
I again thank the committee for its report and I look forward to continuing to work with it in the coming months—I really hope that I did not disappoint my noble friend Lord Carlile. On that final note, I wish all members of the committee a happy Easter and chag Pesach sameach.
Before the noble Baroness sits down, I ask for clarification on one point, and if she does not have it right now, perhaps she could write and put it in the Library. There are two parallel processes here. There is the EU reset and there are the specific conditions in the trade and co-operation agreement, where it is specified that there will be a review in 2026. I have asked the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, and others a number of times whether the Government were preparing for those. We have two separate processes, one a treaty obligation and one a set of political negotiations. We need to know what we are doing, otherwise we are going to get confused. If the noble Baroness does not have the minutiae of it at hand, I would be more than happy if she would write to me.
(1 month, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, we on these Benches hesitate to criticise the due diligence process by the security services and the Civil Service; it seems to have been effectively and efficiently done but disregarded by the Prime Minister’s political advisers and overridden by the Prime Minister. Presumably he thought the task of establishing and maintaining a close relationship with President Trump demanded someone like Peter Mandelson in spite of, or even because of, his flaws.
Can the Minister tell us when further files will be released? I have just looked through the first package that has been released, which is actually very thin. There is clearly an awful lot more to come out—to repeat, there is a lot to come out not just from London but from Washington, which will overlap on to this.
I am sure the whole House will be happy that the Minister has been appointed by the Prime Minister to look further into this. We will all do our best to co-operate with her in making sure that standards and procedures are improved. Can she tell us more about her work programme in her new responsibilities on ethics and standards? Will that work be primarily within government or across the parties and both Houses to make sure that, as far as possible, it gets the maximum buy-in from everyone concerned and interested in politics, and will therefore have the best chance of succeeding? Will she, for example, consider strengthening the parliamentary oversight of major public appointments, which is, after all, a common occurrence in a number of other parliamentary democracies?
How do the Government propose to strengthen further the Ministerial Code? Will they commit to regular revisions with advice from committees in both Houses?
Does the Minister recognise that the case that many of us keep making for putting the Ethics and Integrity Commission, ACOBA and a number of other bodies on a statutory basis is a matter of future-proofing? We do not know what the outcome of the next election will be but it could be extremely messy and lead to some form of coalition Government. We need to make sure that we future-proof our standards and commitments to make sure that any new Government who come in will find it easier to accept them than to override them. We have plenty of lessons from Washington of how easily things can go wrong, and we need as far as we can to prevent them similarly going wrong over here.
Can the Minister say a little about implications for the House of Lords? I note that the Conduct Committee is being charged with the rather difficult task of looking at our standards. The Leader of the House reprimanded me the other week for referring to us as a part-time House and replied that we are now effectively a full-time House. Yes, we are, but the way in which we are managed and governed still assumes that we are part-time and earn other things outside the House, and that that requires us to have a different set of concerns about private, commercial and financial interests and activities outside from those in the Commons. If we are now to be judged on the same level as the Commons as a full-time House then that is quite a radical readjustment of the way one thinks about the second Chamber.
Can I also ask a little about what happens when Peers are disbarred from the House? Will the Government consider putting before the House the idea that they should no longer be able to hold their titles? Removing them from the peerage roll would be perhaps a more important way of signalling that they no longer have a position of honour within our political system.
Of course, behind all this there are some broader issues about the financial and political culture in London, Washington, New York and Westminster. Wealth and money in politics is something we are all going to face as the Representation of the People Bill arrives in this House in a few months. We will need to look at that very carefully. I hope we may be assured that the Government will work with us to make sure that money does not override other matters in our life.
I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their questions. It is incredibly important that these matters are addressed, not least because they now drive a huge amount of my own personal work. I will come on to that.
First, I will provide an update following the Statement made in the other place last week by the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister on the release of the first tranche of documents in response to the humble Address Motion of 4 February. As the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister rightly stated:
“Jeffrey Epstein was a despicable criminal who committed … disgusting crimes that destroyed the lives of countless women and girls. What he did is … unforgivable”.
His victims must be
“our first priority. Peter Mandelson’s behaviour”—
including encouraging Jeffrey Epstein to fight his conviction for abusing a vulnerable young girl—
“was an insult to them and their suffering”.—[Official Report, Commons, 11/3/26; col. 359.]
We should also never forget that every time we discuss Epstein’s horrendous behaviour, his victims relive awful experiences. These survivors must be front and centre when we debate all issues related to Jeffrey Epstein, his network and their impact.
That is why there is a cross-party consensus in both Houses for full transparency and accountability. The Government are committed to publishing all documents relevant to the humble Address and last week published the first tranche. These documents relate specifically to the decision to appoint Peter Mandelson as ambassador to the US and the discussions that subsequently led to his dismissal. Further work is ongoing to compile the rest of the information in scope. The Government recognise the urgency with which this work must be completed and will keep your Lordships updated as it progresses.
The Prime Minister has taken personal responsibility for Peter Mandelson’s appointment as ambassador. He has acknowledged that it was a mistake and apologised, not least for believing Peter Mandelson’s lies. While the documents point to public reports of an ongoing relationship between Peter Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein, the advice did not expose the depth and extent of their relationship, which became apparent only after the release of files by Bloomberg and then the US Department of Justice.
As the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister set out last week, there are specific documents that this Government would like to disclose but the Metropolitan Police has asked us not to do so yet to avoid prejudicing the ongoing criminal investigation into Peter Mandelson. We have agreed to that request. We will publish these documents once the Metropolitan Police has confirmed that this will no longer prejudice its investigation.
The Government have already taken steps to address weaknesses in the system and I will update your Lordships on the further steps we will take. As noble Lords will be aware, the Government have asked the Conduct Committee of your Lordships’ House to review the Code of Conduct to consider what changes are required to ensure that Members of your Lordships’ House can be removed when they have brought the peerage into disrepute. We are also exploring whether the committee can further strengthen the rules on lobbying and paid advocacy.
The Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister also announced that the Prime Minister has asked the Ethics and Integrity Commission to conduct a review of the current arrangements relating to financial disclosures for Ministers and senior officials, transparency around lobbying, and the Business Appointment Rules, and I look forward to receiving its report before the Summer Recess. The Chief Secretary also confirmed that we will conduct a review of the national security vetting system to ensure that we learn the lessons from the policy and process weaknesses related to the Mandelson case.
With regard to some of the specifics that were asked, I think some of the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, will be slightly easier for me to answer, given that they are in my direct purview. On the questions asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, we have been clear that many more documents will follow in coming tranches. The noble Baroness was concerned about who is seeing what and when. I want to be clear that, while we are withholding some documents at the request of the Metropolitan Police, we have agreed with Simon Hoare MP, the chair of PACAC in the other place, that he is seeing all documents being withheld, so a member of His Majesty’s Opposition is seeing everything as we go through it.
Given the scale of what we are doing and the fact that we are complying and will comply with both the spirit and the letter of the humble Address, it is appropriate that we are releasing the documents in such a way that is sensible given their nature, but also that the ISC is seeing them so that it can deal with them. I assure noble Lords that all the documents will be published and that noble Lords will have the opportunity to see them all—but, given the live police investigation, we have to take this step by step.
I just want to touch on the 56 documents. I have read the paperwork related to them but I do not recognise the 56 documents. The noble Baroness asked specifically whether legal advice had been taken on the schedule. I have not seen that, but I will revert to her if such advice exists. She also questioned whether the Prime Minister had misled the Commons. He absolutely has not; his comments all the way through are in line with the paperwork being released in each tranche.
On some of the specifics raised by the noble Baroness, obviously she is aware that I cannot comment on the Committee of Privileges of the other place—that was Parliament holding a former Member to account. She asked about some of the things that we have already done, as did the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. I will touch on severance payments, which were a core theme from the noble Baroness. As the documents show, Peter Mandelson initially requested a sum that was substantially larger than the final payment—more than six times the final amount—despite the fact that he was withdrawn from Washington because he had lost the confidence of the Prime Minister. As the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister explained yesterday, the Government obviously found that to be inappropriate and unacceptable. The settlement that was agreed was to avoid even higher costs from a drawn-out legal claim at the employment tribunal, given Peter Mandelson’s employment as a civil servant rather than a Minister.
As noble Lords will know, Ministers can be dismissed without recourse to the employment tribunal—let us hope I am not experiencing that soon—but civil servants are treated differently. As can be seen from the documents, Peter Mandelson’s settlement was in line with his employment contract and standard Civil Service HR processes, avoiding the risk and high costs of drawn-out legal action and ensuring he was quickly removed from the payroll. As set out in the documents, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury approved this payment in line with standard HMT guidance on the use of severance payments.
I have already touched on the issue of vetting, but I want to spend a couple of moments responding to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. On the question about the release of further documentation, given that this request is supported by both Houses but is about the Commons and complying with the Commons, obviously we need to lay those documents when the House is sitting. Those documents will come forward in due course, either before or after the Recess.
I look forward to discussing many details of my own work programme with Members of your Lordships’ House, not least the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. I truly believe that if we are to rebuild faith in politicians, and in what I consider to be one of the most important buildings in the country, it has to be a cross-party, cross-government and cross-Parliament project, so I will actively seek to work with all Members of your Lordships’ House on where we believe the gaps are, what we can realistically fix and how we can rebuild trust.
With regard to the Ministerial Code revisions, the noble Lord will not be surprised that, unlike his colleagues in the other place, who suggested that we may want to put it on a statutory footing, we will not be seeking to do that, but I am very aware of what he said about future-proofing standards. Many people who have been at this Dispatch Box and at Dispatch Boxes in the other place are aware that we rarely get to look at standards in the round. The last time that was done with a clear objective was in establishing the Nolan principles. I view this as a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make sure that we get this right. We have a Minister dedicated to it—I do not know the last time that happened—so it is about how we can ensure we use this moment to fix the things that typically get pushed to one side.
However, I agree with my noble friend the Leader of our House, Lady Smith: we are a full-time House with part-time Members and we are different from the other place. Noble Lords will be aware that I used to be a Member of the other place and am married to a Member of the other place; what he is expected to do and what I did before I was on the Front Bench are two very different sets of responsibilities. We need to make sure that we do not lose what is so special about this building and our Chamber, and some of the expertise we have because of people’s outside interests compared to the other place.
The noble Lord raised the Representation of the People Bill and the impact of money. He did not touch on the Rycroft review, which will be coming forward and will very much tie into our discussions on these issues.
I conclude by reiterating that Jeffrey Epstein was a despicable individual, and Peter Mandelson’s decision to put their relationship before his victims and the vulnerable is reprehensible. As the Prime Minister said, the victims of Epstein have lived with trauma that most of us can barely comprehend. They have had to relive it again and again, and they have had to see accountability delayed and too often denied. Peter Mandelson should never have been appointed. The Government will comply with the humble Address and I will provide further updates to your Lordships’ House in due course.
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, is participating remotely and I invite him to speak now.
My Lords, first, I thank my noble friend the Minister for bringing to the House this excellent Statement. I congratulate her on her very appropriate appointment, which shows the sincerity and determination of the Government to take this issue seriously. I recognise that the Liberal spokesperson asked some sensible questions, which the Minister has responded to. However, I was really disappointed that the Official Opposition took this as another opportunity to attack the Prime Minister and his integrity. That was an unfortunate lapse of judgment by their Front Bench.
Will the Minister confirm that this House needs to look at its own procedures and arrangements as well? The recent Chadlington case shows that we are not above reproach. Will she indicate that this will be a much wider look at the whole aspect of how the Government and Parliament operate? Will she indicate how much the whole long and complicated exercise might cost, because it is not without substantial cost?
It is a true joy to see my noble friend, if only on a screen. I am so pleased that he is well enough to participate, if remotely. I cannot wait to see him back in his place.
My noble friend asked me several questions. I want to focus on the fact that there is a responsibility on every Member of your Lordships’ House and everyone who serves in this building, whether in the other place or here, as well as those who support all of us, to help rebuild trust in politics. My noble friend spent a long career door-knocking and campaigning, and we know how important this is. With regard to the costs, I do not have a total cost to give my noble friend at this time and it will not be possible to give a running update. However, I can confirm that Civil Service resource has been redeployed, meaning that this will not create any net cost to the taxpayer. Any additional costs will be set out in due course.
Lord Pannick (CB)
Would the Minister agree that one of the ironies of this sorry saga is that His Majesty’s Government had a highly competent ambassador in Washington DC, Karen Pierce, who had the confidence of the Trump Administration and was widely respected in that city? Does the Minister agree that no Government should be appointing political cronies to this type of position but should be selecting from the wide category of highly competent professional diplomats?
The noble Lord, as ever, raises an interesting and non-straightforward point for me to answer. On the process, while this was unusual it is not unheard of. Three Members of your Lordships’ House were political appointees from both parties to hold ambassadorial roles, both by previous Labour Governments and by the Conservative Government. There is a clear process for such appointments. The process was followed; the process did not work; the process has now changed.
The private lives of the decadent rich are always going to arouse interest in the media and with the general public. The Prime Minister has failed to answer some very embarrassing questions about what he knew when he made this appointment. In my opinion, this whole thing became overwhelmingly more serious when allegations were made that Lord Mandelson and Andrew Mountbatten had been repaying the hospitality they received by giving classified government financial and economic information to a financier to help him with his investments. If that is true, it is one of the most serious allegations of corruption in public life in recent years. We normally assume that we do not have that in this country. Can the Minister assure me that the Metropolitan Police is being given full support in getting on with the task of investigating that, and that there will be no suggestion of political pressure at any stage to stop the full force of the law being brought forward? Others must be deterred in future from being tempted to go in for that kind of corrupt behaviour.
Before I answer the substance of the question, while I appreciate the issues that were raised, the private lives of the decadent rich are of no odds here. It is about abuse and violence against women and girls, and illegal behaviour; it is not about a decadent life. Regardless of whether they are rich or not, people should be held to account with the full force of the law. On classified government information, noble Lords will be aware there is a live police investigation so I cannot comment on the detail. However, I would expect the Met Police to receive absolute full support. If laws have been broken, people should be prosecuted.
The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, made an extremely pertinent point about Lord Mandelson’s predecessor, Dame Karen Pierce. First, can the Minister confirm that, during the scope of this investigation, we will look at the representations the Prime Minister will have received arguing that Dame Karen should have been kept in place to handle a very unpredictable and volatile president? Can the Minister confirm what pressure the Prime Minister came under, and from whom, to replace her with Lord Mandelson? Secondly, if we are investigating Lord Mandelson’s suitability for public office of any sort historically, will the scope of that investigation be extended to his time as an EU commissioner in Brussels? There are some very serious questions and allegations surrounding his time there.
It may be helpful to inform your Lordships’ House that the previous ambassador to America had come to the end of her tenure. The question would have been whether the tenure would be extended or not, not whether she should have been removed. I do not believe that is within the scope of the paperwork; the paperwork being released directly pertains to the appointment and withdrawal of Peter Mandelson as His Majesty’s ambassador. If I am wrong, I will write to the noble Lord. On the scope of the humble Address and the EU processes, I believe other organisations are looking at other roles and some of the history. On the scope of what is currently in play, there is a live police investigation. The matter before us relating to the humble Address concerns the immediate period before and during his appointment.
My Lords, the humble Address referred on several occasions to electronic communications between officials in the Government and political appointees. Under the Freedom of Information Act, it has been long-standing practice that communications between Ministers and officials, on whatever device, and whether they are private or government emails, are within scope of freedom of information laws. Can the Minister confirm that the Government are working on the basis that all such communications, whether they are private or government emails, are within scope? Assuming they are, what steps are being taken to secure and recover such information from those officials who are no longer within the Government’s employ—specifically, the Prime Minister’s former chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney?
To confirm, all electronic communication is in scope and will be released in future tranches of materials. On the steps being taken to secure the materials, the Permanent Secretary to the Cabinet Office has contacted all other Permanent Secretaries to make sure that materials are being secured and passed on. Those materials are currently being collated for further release. On the former chief of staff, as set out by my right honourable friend the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, there was correspondence between No. 10 and Lord Peter Mandelson, in which a number of follow-up questions were asked. I would assume that those materials are going to be released as well.
My Lords, I understand that the complexities of employment law mean that you have to pay someone some money when they work for you. Has anyone approached Mandelson, who has done disgraceful things, to ask whether he wants to give this money to a buy-a-warship fund, or some other charity, rather than take it for himself?
My Lords, I wondered how my noble friend was going to get a warship into this question—and, as ever, he succeeded. My noble friend is right; from my perspective, Peter Mandelson should donate his severance to any charity that campaigns for, or protects, women who have been targeted and have experienced horrendous violence. That is probably the least we are owed.
My Lords, is it the Government’s case that Lord Mandelson misled them to get the appointment? Can the Minister give us a couple of examples of what he said to fool the Prime Minister?
The noble Lord will be able to read any and all correspondence for himself as further tranches are published.
Further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord West, I understand that the amount that Lord Mandelson is to receive is much less than he asked for. The Minister said that that was to save costs. In many cases, there is surely a commercial reason for settling, but, given that this case is of such constitutional importance, would it not be far better to see whether a court agrees that Lord Mandelson is entitled to any compensation at all?
The noble Lord raises an important and valid point. In this instance, it was considered a sensible move to remove Lord Mandelson from the payroll as quickly as possible.
My Lords, the Minister quite rightly referred to Epstein as a despicable person, as did the Prime Minister and other members of the Government. However, was he not a despicable person the first time he was put in jail for the appalling abuse of young women? Peter Mandelson stayed in Epstein’s house in America after that, which the Prime Minister knew. A lot of the public will think that that must have been enough to make it clear that he could not be appointed as our ambassador.
The noble Baroness is absolutely right that Mr Epstein was a despicable and horrendous human being. The Prime Minister was genuinely not aware of the depth of their continuing relationship, which did not become clear until after the publication of the Bloomberg papers.
My Lords, this is not the first political appointment to an ambassadorship, including that in Washington, which has not been without controversy. But would the Minister confirm that there are some circumstances in which it is appropriate for there to be a political appointment, rather than one which is selected from Civil Service ranks, provided it is quite clear that that is the responsibility of the Ministers making the appointment?
Secondly, could she confirm that it is quite common for organisations that are facing what may seem quite unreasonable severance requests from individuals to make a judgment about what the cost is of fighting those arrangements and to reach a balanced decision?
In the circumstances where people are criticising the nature of some of the material being published and trying to read too much into it, is it not the case—as Bismarck said, if you ever like laws or sausages, never watch either being made—that this minute inspection, which quite properly the Opposition have demanded should be released, will reveal the imperfections of any process in government, or indeed anywhere else?
My noble friend is absolutely right. There have been several political appointments, as I have said, including of Members of your Lordships’ House, to ambassadorial and diplomatic roles. Also, there have been direct ministerial appointments made outside this. This is not an unusual process. However, I appreciate it is rare in the diplomatic field. What we have to do is make sure that, as and when political appointees are considered to be appropriate, the nature of our politics should not suggest that we are therefore excluded from other roles, but we should make sure that due process is followed. Given recent events, we have changed due process both on direct ministerial appointments and on any future political appointments in the diplomatic space.
The noble Lord also asked about negotiations around severance payments. I am a former trade union officer and spent a great deal of time negotiating other people’s packages. Negotiations in this space are not unusual, but the noble Lord’s most important point was about imperfections in the system. I am viewing this as an opportunity to reflect on what has gone wrong and what we now need to fix. But let us be clear that there have been significant weaknesses in processes. The onus now is on this Government to strengthen the processes.
My diplomatic friends tell me that, if they are up for a sensitive posting abroad, the due diligence that the FCO carries out is a brutal, intrusive and pretty degrading exercise, but a very effective one. Why is the system of due diligence for a political appointment different?
My Lords, it is not. It is exactly the same in terms of the security and vetting processes. I would like to reassure noble Lords that the vetting process that was undertaken on Peter Mandelson was expedited but followed every step.
My Lords, following the comment from my noble friend, and as I mentioned before, the vetting process is not really the issue here. We have Members of this House who are former diplomats and ambassadors, and it is very rare in my recollection that we have had any issues with those who have taken up posts abroad on our behalf. To widen this discussion into codes of conduct for Members in the future and how we must now move towards different vetting procedures is obfuscation.
The points raised by my noble friend Lady Finn on the Front Bench are the questions we need answered. The hub of this matter is that we have a Prime Minister of the United Kingdom who knowingly appointed Peter Mandelson, who had remained friends with a convicted paedophile, to represent us in one of the most key posts as ambassador to the United States of America. So, my question to the noble Baroness on the Front Bench is: given the reality that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom clearly has no judgment and that to obfuscate and try to blame everyone else is really inappropriate, will he, on this issue, stand down, because clearly his judgment is lost?
My Lords, I have tried not to be party political on this, but I find it a little rich to be taking lectures from the Opposition Benches, given what we experienced with “partygate” for years and what Liz Truss’s Government did. I find this very difficult. Also, for the record, the idea that the appointment of a Minister—
Noble Lords can listen to me or not, but the concept that our appointing a Minister to review the standards landscape in the whole is an obfuscation is disappointing to say the least. In terms of the Prime Minister’s responsibilities, he has apologised for appointing Peter Mandelson. He believed Peter Mandelson’s lies in response to the questions put to him. As soon as the Prime Minister became aware of this in September, Peter Mandelson was dismissed promptly.
My Lords, we are, hopefully, discussing the concept of rebuilding trust in politics and how we talk to each other. I will answer questions from either the noble Lord or the noble Baroness, but it is for them to decide.
My Lords, is it the case that, in the course of the appointment of Lord Mandelson, the Prime Minister never spoke to him?
Noble Lords will appreciate that there is ongoing material, which will be published. All of that will be a matter of public record in due course.
My Lords, this feels a bit “Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil” in the casual way that the Prime Minister followed process in appointing the US ambassador, the then Lord Mandelson. There is a concern that, when the humble Address was passed, former chief of staff Morgan McSweeney still worked for the Government and did not resign until a few days later. Yet Darren Jones, Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister, has said that everything the Government have has been published. I am concerned that all the documents have not yet been released by the Government. What has happened to the communications between Morgan McSweeney and anybody else involved in this while he was still working for the Prime Minister?
My Lords, I believe I have said on numerous occasions that this is the first tranche of material that has been published, as did the Chief Secretary to the Prime Minister. More material will be published in due course. I have answered several questions on that. I look forward to discussing it again with noble Lords when that is done.
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Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government what standards of behaviour apply to UK public servants on secondment to international organisations where UK civil service standards may be higher than those of the temporary secondment.
Civil servants seconded outside the Civil Service, including internationally, do not cease to be civil servants and are expected to carry out their role with dedication and a commitment to the Civil Service and its core values of integrity, honesty, objectivity and impartiality. The provisions in the Civil Service Code and of their employing department continue to apply to them at all times.
I thank the Minister. I should declare from the outset that my Question is not related to any individuals but, rather, is a question of policy. She will know about both the reputational damage to Civil Service morale and the fact that public confidence takes a hit when perceptions of lower standards take hold in public life. If, as the Minister explained, oversight by the home department continues and the Civil Service Code continues to apply, why is misconduct investigated not by the UK Civil Service but rather by the international organisation, which may represent lower standards than we would have? Are the Government minded to conduct a review to make sure that there is joined-up appraisal and performance assessment of people who may be away for several years?
I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Obviously, standards are an important part of the regime—not least because the Prime Minister has now given me responsibility for them. On the specifics that she asked for, whether the individual is on secondment nationally or internationally, as best practice, the department should continue to conduct the performance reviews of the secondee. The host will provide the department with appropriate input for these purposes, to agreed timescales. Alternatively, the department can agree that, for the duration of the secondment, the host conducts performance reviews. The host organisation is required to seek consent from the department to do so. The department must also consult the HR, pay and reward, and legal team where appropriate. This was reviewed last September, so we have no additional plans to review.
My Lords, it is right that we expect the highest standards of our civil servants, but what does my noble friend make of the statement that emanated from Reform UK that a Reform UK Government would expect to dismiss the top civil servants in every government department and replace them with people seen as more likely to implement the party’s priorities? Does she agree that if we go down that path, we will undermine the integrity of the Civil Service and do this country a great disservice?
My noble friend is absolutely right, and it suggests quite how unserious Reform UK is about governing. We have an independent Civil Service for a reason. It acts without fear or favour; it is subject to a stringent code of conduct, and it is there to make sure that our public services are delivered. Any suggestion otherwise is for the birds.
Lord Pack (LD)
My Lords, the latest Civil Service staff survey, published last month, shows that, for example, more than one in 10 Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office staff and one in 10 Cabinet Office staff report having experienced bullying or harassment in the workplace in the last year. Can the Minister tell us what safeguards the Government have in place to ensure that such highly inappropriate behaviour is not exported inadvertently to international organisations?
The noble Lord raises an interesting point. Every member of the Civil Service is subject to the Civil Service Code, regardless of seniority, and we expect them to be held accountable and to treat all staff with appropriate levels of respect. Obviously, Ministers are subject to the Ministerial Code. There is extensive HR support within government departments, both within the FCDO and my own department, and I would expect everyone to undertake the appropriate training—and to be dismissed, where appropriate, if such behaviour was found.
My Lords, as the Infected Blood and Grenfell Tower inquiries made clear, having a Civil Service Code is one thing but ensuring that it is properly followed is quite another. Can the Minister therefore set out what specific consequences apply when the code is breached—whether by those in conventional employment or by those on secondment—and confirm whether serious instances of non-compliance are routinely escalated to senior Ministers and to No. 10, including in cases involving secondees or officials posted overseas? Furthermore, will she also explain how conduct is reflected in performance management and in decisions about future appointments, in particular how an individual’s conduct and performance while on secondment is assessed and taken into account?
The noble Baroness has asked four questions, so I will answer as many as I can. For all of them, the answer is the same, which is that chapter 4 of the Civil Service management code outlines what conduct we expect, the disciplinary process and how civil servants should apply it. I would expect every civil servant to stick to everything within the code and, if not, to be managed appropriately.
Having worked in an international organisation for five years and having seen some shocking conduct, it crosses my mind that the Government could do well to ask the British-appointed directors of those organisations to keep a very close eye on what goes on with respect to standards and to report back regularly, and for the Government to make public reports where they can on such information. Will the Government consider putting such an arrangement in place?
I am not sure how many secondments would work on that basis, but we already have in place keeping-in-touch conversations, where those who have been seconded must have regular conversations with their home department, as well as everything determined within the secondment agreement. Every secondment undertaken, both into and out of the Civil Service, is done on a case-by-case basis, so there is a bespoke secondment agreement which would allow some of those conversations to be formalised.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)
My Lords, clearly, as my noble friend has said, there are procedures and codes in place for our own civil servants, whom I hold in the highest regard. The noble Lord mentioned our own civil servants who are working in international organisations. I wonder what, if anything, we can do to ensure that bullying and harassment, for example, are properly dealt with in international organisations when it is not happening to our own civil servants who have been seconded to those organisations.
My noble friend raises an interesting point. This is about who we end up seconding staff to and what happens while they are there, and the things they may see. There is a clear process for any concerns that arise during a secondment process. The secondment can be terminated early and we can withdraw people, especially in the international space. It is also one of the reasons why we have those keeping-in-touch conversations, because, as our employees, we still have a duty of care towards them regardless of where they are working. We need to make sure that we know what environment they are operating in and that we can protect them wherever they are.
My Lords, I do not believe the noble Baroness answered the last part of my question. Why are misconduct investigations undertaken by the international organisation, which may have lower standards, when the Civil Service Code applies, which may have higher standards? Should they not be undertaken by the home department from where the secondee goes abroad?
I apologise; I thought I had answered the question. If a member of our staff is on secondment elsewhere and there are disciplinary concerns, the secondment process is likely to end and the disciplinary process will be dealt with in their home department and not by where they are seconded.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that accountability of the Civil Service is crucial as well? It is important that Ministers can hold civil servants to account. Do we know how that is best managed? It seems to me as though we need to hold them to account, but there needs to be no bullying involved.
My Lords, I thank my noble friend, but I suggest that it is always about your individual management style; for example, as a Minister, working with people and bringing them on a journey with you, making sure that you are able to deliver collectively and collaboratively in your policy area. But it is also about ensuring that culture change exists both within the Civil Service and elsewhere, so that anything considered as bullying and harassment is not acceptable in the 21st century.
My Lords, is the Minister completely satisfied about the complexity and glacial progress which confronts civil servants who wish to make a complaint about another civil servant? In my experience, that seems to be a ponderous, unnecessarily arduous, distressing and very long-standing procedure.
The noble Baroness has had significant experience of ministerial office. I have not, but among the civil servants who I have worked with, if there are those who may have made complaints, I am not aware that they have faced that experience, but if she has specifics she would like to raise with me in terms of where there are challenges in the system, I would be more than happy to have that conversation with her outside the Chamber.
(1 month, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberThat the draft Regulations laid before the House on 19 and 26 January be approved.
Relevant document: 50th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 9 March.
(1 month, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I refer to my interest, as recorded in the register, as chair of the National Preparedness Commission and beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
My Lords, the National Cyber Security Centre is closely monitoring the situation in the Middle East and directly engaging with critical sectors, providing immediate and specific information and advice. It has issued an alert, urging all organisations, especially those with assets or supply chains in the region, to remain vigilant. While it is likely that the direct cyber threat from Iran to the UK has not changed, NCSC advises organisations to strengthen their cyber security posture due to the fast-evolving nature of the conflict. The National Protective Security Authority also issued updated guidance last year on countering the threat of sabotage, helping organisations to protect their sites from physical threats.
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. I am also grateful for what the National Cyber Security Centre has been doing in terms of targeted advice. However, last week four people were arrested by the Metropolitan Police under the National Security Act for what has been reported as spying against Jewish organisations— so there is an issue about that in terms of the risk of Iranian sabotage. There has also been a series of incidents across Europe and in this country of Russian-inspired or Russian paid-for attacks on various businesses. What is the general advice given to the public, to small businesses and to larger businesses in terms of the precautions they ought increasingly to take under the current international situation?
My noble friend raises an important point; all of this comes down to our national resilience and making sure that we are prepared for such threats. Before I highlight what we are doing on the specifics of cyber, and on cyber more generally, let me highlight that ministerial colleagues, the Faith Minister and the security services, which have done so much in recent days to keep us safe, have met and spoken to a large range of Jewish and Muslim organisations to provide reassurance. They have also met with my noble friend Lord Mann and 20 councils to provide reassurance to those who are so worried about the current conflict.
In terms of specific guidance, the reality is that in this space we need a whole-society approach. Businesses have to take the lead—they know where their threats are and where their vulnerabilities may lie—but at this point we need to make sure that we are collectively working together. The Government will bring forward the cyber action plan by spring, and the cyber security and resilience Bill is currently in the other place.
My Lords, as the defence production need for entirely new kinds of warfare steps up, as it is now doing, are the Government satisfied that the needs of our strategy, which are rapidly growing, are closely enough aligned with the plans of British industry?
The noble Lord is right that we need to make sure that we are protecting British industry and working with key allies. Last year, cyber attacks cost the economy £15 billion, and it is a growing threat. We need to work with business, but also to be led by it because it knows what infrastructure is there. As some noble Lords will be aware, some of this is low tech as much as high technology, and people are seeking every vulnerability. We all need to be cognisant of that and make sure there is a genuinely whole-society approach.
My Lords, if we are going to have a whole-society response, we had better make sure that the whole society is informed about the nature of the threat. Nearly a year ago, the strategic defence review talked about the need for
“a national conversation led by the Government”—
political leadership by the Government—to inform and educate the wider public about the nature of these new cyber and other hybrid threats from a number of different countries: Iran, Russia, China and others. When are the Government going to provide that political leadership through the national conversation which was proposed?
My Lords, I am disappointed that not everybody looks at the NCSC’s website in the same way that I do to ensure that they are updated. The noble Lord is right that we need to make sure that people are aware. It was one of the reasons why it was so important in the run-up to the national alerts we had on all our phones last year that materials were made available about what else could be done in terms of resilience and what other things needed to be done. I urge all noble Lords to make sure they are also protected. I hate to do this, but there is a cyber offer available to every Member of your Lordships’ House, and I believe only 10 of us have accessed it. It would be very good if all Members of your Lordships’ House took up the security offering provided to protect us while we talk about others too.
Lord Peach (CB)
My Lords, sticking with the theme, Iran is a sophisticated actor and works closely with Russia. We know the threats that Russia can generate, which are more than cyber. It is not just time for a national conversation; it is time to strengthen our national security narrative for the whole country.
I think it is fair to say that of course I agree with the noble and gallant Lord. It is also about making sure the foundations we have in place are right too. We go from national security to national defence within this space, as well as our wider resilience programme. It is one of the reasons why the Rycroft review into funding of political parties is so important and why the Representation of the People Bill, which is in the other place, is key. It is also why we are investing £170 million in Sovereign encrypted technology so that we can protect ourselves. The noble Lord is absolutely right that the challenges from Iran are not one-dimensional; they are multi-dimensional and we all need to be prepared.
My Lords, when Russia invaded Ukraine, we were very quick to sanction individuals and freeze assets. Can the noble Baroness tell me what assets we have frozen of the late ayatollah? His office, I believe, is still open in Kilburn. Apparently, there are flats and so on near Israel’s embassy in Kensington. What are we doing to sanction the assets?
My Lords, the Government have taken significant action so far. We have sanctioned the IRGC in its entirety, as well as 550 Iranian individuals and entities. We have also placed the whole of the Iranian state, including Iran’s intelligence services, on the enhanced tier of the new foreign influence registration scheme, to better reveal any Iranian influence on the UK. We are also training front-line police officers on what state threats are and are not. In terms of the specifics, I will have to write to the noble Lord.
My Lords, we have talked a lot about cyber defence, and of course that is extremely important, but you do not win a war purely through defence and, be in no doubt, we are at war in cyber space. I do not expect the Minister to give us any details, but could she reassure the House that we are taking all the action necessary to go on the offensive in this area as well as defend?
The noble and gallant Lord knows much more than I do about how to fight a war. He is absolutely right that we need to be prepared on all fronts, and I want to reassure him that we are making sure that we are.
My Lords, the National Audit Office recently examined the cyber threat facing the UK Government and reached some deeply concerning conclusions. It found that 58 critical government IT systems have significant gaps in their cyber resilience and that the Government do not even know how vulnerable at least 228 legacy systems are to cyber attack. It also highlighted a number of underlying weaknesses, shortage of cyber security skills within government and insufficient co-ordination across departments. In the face of what the NAO has described as a “severe and advancing” threat, with tensions in the Middle East further heightening the risk environment, can the noble Baroness set out what steps the Government are taking to address these shortcomings and strengthen the resilience of critical government systems?
The noble Baroness will be aware that the cyber security and resilience Bill is in the other place, which is a starting point. I am aware of what she has highlighted and we are working across Government to fix it. There is also the cyber action plan, which will be published this spring.
My Lords, may I bring my noble friend back to the question of a national conversation and ask her a rather more prosaic question about what efforts the Government are making to counter the kind of information that gives rise to very unhelpful behaviours: for example, the hoarding of certain kinds of foodstuffs, petrol and other things? Is she aware, or are the Government aware, of any particular rise in that kind of behaviour at this moment?
I thank my noble friend for the question, which is interesting. I have not been made aware that any of those behaviours have yet happened. Anyone who watches the news is aware of quite how volatile and uncertain the world is. You can understand why that is. What I would say, both to members of your Lordships’ House and to the general public, is that there is a responsibility on those of us who can look after ourselves at a point of crisis to make sure that we have minimum levels of food and water at home so that the state can look after the most vulnerable and deal with the emergency at hand. All of that guidance is available on GOV.UK.
My Lords, the source of much of this activity is the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Why have our Government not proscribed it to try and prevent this activity at source? Secondly, the growth of the rampant misinformation and disinformation, which is causing Islamophobia and antisemitism—some, indeed, from far-right evangelical groups in the United States—is now becoming pervasive. What work are the Government doing with Ofcom to prevent that at source?
The noble Lord will be aware of my own voting record on the IRGC’s proscription—
Yes, in opposition. But let me be clear: proscription powers are designed for non-state terror organisations, not state organisations. We have committed to taking forward plans recommended by Jonathan Hall KC for a proscription-like power for states and state-linked bodies to tackle hostile state activity. That will come forward as soon as parliamentary time allows.
With regard to the other point, some of this action is happening in terms of media literacy training, changes to the curriculum and how all of us interrogate data and what we see online. The reality, I say as someone who has lived and breathed some of the misinformation that is put out about people in this space, is that we need to be aware that what happens online really does have an effect offline. That is increasingly the reality that we have to manage, which is why my final word is to say once again how thankful I am to the security services.
(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
Grand CommitteeThat the Grand Committee do consider the Procurement Act 2023 (Specified International Agreements and Saving Provision) (Amendment) Regulations 2026.
Relevant document: 50th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee
My Lords, I am going to speak slightly slowly so that my officials have time to swap out, because they are two different teams. The purpose of this statutory instrument is to implement the procurement chapter of the UK-India comprehensive economic and trade agreement, CETA, via an amendment to the Procurement Act 2023. The UK-India CETA was signed on 24 July 2025 and is one of the most significant bilateral trade agreements that the UK has completed since leaving the European Union.
India is one of the economic heavyweights of the 21st century. It has the highest growth rate in the G20 and is likely to become the third-largest economy in the world by 2029, but India’s markets are also behind some of the highest barriers in the world. The deal that we have secured goes well beyond India’s offering to other countries, opening the door for UK businesses on an unprecedented basis, especially in respect of government procurement. Some noble Lords present may have attended the Lords debate on the UK-India trade agreement last week, when a variety of policy issues pertaining to the agreement were discussed. Today’s debate is focused solely on the procurement chapter of the agreement.
India spends an estimated 20% of its GDP, or £500 billion, on public procurement. Given that India’s nominal GDP was estimated to be £2.74 trillion in 2022 and is projected to reach £7.06 trillion by 2035, this is a phenomenal opportunity for UK suppliers. The procurement chapter unlocks unprecedented access to India’s federal procurement market, covering £38 billion-worth of contracts a year in such sectors as advanced manufacturing, healthcare, construction and infrastructure, and clean energy. For the first time, UK companies will be able to access India’s procurement portal. British businesses will have access to India’s covered entities in respect of procurements above £478,000 for goods and services and £5.3 million for construction services.
We have gained exclusive treatment under the “Make in India” policy. UK bidders will be treated as class 2 suppliers under “Make in India” if at least 20% of their product or service is from the UK or India, giving UK suppliers unprecedented access to India’s federal procurement market not available to other foreign suppliers. We have also reached commitments on fairness, openness and transparency, including the use and accessibility of e-procurement systems, requirements for the publishing of notices and awarding of contracts and domestic review procedures for businesses to bring a challenge if the chapter’s rules have not been followed correctly. The agreement that this Government have secured was a momentous achievement. Others have been trying to get a deal like this for years and failed, but this Prime Minister, along with the then Business Secretary and Trade Minister, delivered.
We are clearly leading the way, as the EU and India have now reached political agreement on their own trade agreement, where it seems that the UK deal was used as a baseline. However, we retain first-mover advantage, including unique access to India’s £38 billion federal procurement market, which the EU has not obtained. As part of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 process to enable parliamentary scrutiny of treaties, the CETA was laid in Parliament on 21 January 2026 and cleared the CRaG scrutiny process on 5 March. This SI was laid on 19 January 2026 to bring the CETA into force as quickly as possible, while allowing for the necessary parliamentary scrutiny, to allow businesses to take advantage of the agreement and deliver growth across the country.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations and for clearly setting out their purpose. As she explained, these regulations amend the Procurement Act 2023 to add the UK-India comprehensive economic and trade agreement to the list of specified international agreements in the Act. In doing so, they give effect in domestic law to the procurement provisions contained in that agreement. Under the World Trade Organization’s agreement on government procurement, the United Kingdom is required to ensure that countries with which we have concluded relevant trade agreements are given non-discriminatory access to public procurement markets. These regulations are therefore a technical but necessary step to ensure that the United Kingdom meets those obligations.
While we support the regulations, it is worth briefly reflecting on the wider context in which they sit. The UK-India agreement was long anticipated and presents significant potential opportunities for trade between our two countries. However, we have concerns about some of the provisions in the agreement and about what was not included.
The inclusion of services in any agreement with India was widely regarded as a central objective of the United Kingdom’s negotiating position. It is therefore disappointing that a number of key services sectors, including the legal sector, appear not to have secured the level of market access that had been hoped for. Given the strength of the UK services economy, that omission represents a missed opportunity. Similar concerns were raised during the debate in the other place, where it was noted that securing stronger outcomes for services had been a central priority during earlier negotiations.
Concerns have also been raised regarding the operation of the double contributions convention within the agreement, which may mean that companies employing Indian workers in the United Kingdom are not required to pay employer national insurance contributions on their salaries. Although labour mobility provisions are a common feature of modern trade agreements, it would be helpful if the Minister could clarify how the Government intend to ensure that these arrangements operate fairly and do not inadvertently disadvantage British workers.
I would also welcome the Minister’s comments on the point raised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee on the timing of this instrument. As the committee observed, the regulations were laid shortly before the treaty itself was formally laid before Parliament, meaning that the scrutiny periods for the treaty and its implementing legislation run in parallel. Can the Minister explain the Government’s reasoning for adopting that approach and reassure the Grand Committee that Parliament will have had sufficient opportunities to scrutinise both the agreement and the legislation required to implement it?
Finally, Ministers have suggested that the procurement provisions of this agreement will open up significant opportunities for UK businesses by providing access to India’s federal procurement market. That is clearly welcome, but it would be helpful to hear how the Government intend to support UK firms, in particular small and medium-sized enterprises, in navigating and accessing those opportunities in practice.
With those brief remarks, I reiterate that these regulations are a necessary step to give effect to the procurement provisions of the agreement. Nevertheless, we will continue to take a close interest in how the wider deal operates in practice and whether it ultimately delivers the benefits that British businesses and workers were promised.
My Lords, this has been part 2 of the “Finn and Anderson show” today. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, for the points she raised. I was a little disappointed that she did not manage to get in a reference to those celebrating this deal—not least the people of Scotland, who are delighted about access to the Indian whisky market; it has been life-changing for that sector.
I will respond to some of the specific questions the noble Baroness asked me. I will reflect on Hansard after the debate, and I am sure she will pick me up on anything I miss.
On the double contributions convention, the UK Government already have similar agreements in place covering Chile, Japan, South Korea, the 27 EU member states, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland, Barbados, Canada, Israel, Jamaica, Mauritius, the Philippines, Bosnia-Herzegovina, North Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Turkey and the USA. We know how to do these agreements and we are effective at them. The noble Baroness will be aware that the previous Government also operated within this space. There is little to be concerned about.
The noble Baroness is absolutely right that our focus should be on how we support businesses so that they can access the benefits of this procurement chapter. It is vital that we ensure that British businesses can utilise the benefits of this chapter if we are to reap the economic rewards of this unprecedented access to India’s market. The Department for Business and Trade has a significant presence in India, with one of the biggest in-country overseas teams in the world, behind only the US and China. This consists of sectoral experts who work directly with UK companies to help them enter, grow and expand into the Indian market. Alongside this, the team has staff focusing on trade policy, market access, investment promotion, and marketing and communications, under the leadership of HM trade commissioner for South Asia. The DBT works in partnership with Foreign Office teams in India, who also have objectives to support UK economic growth.
On the timing of the instrument, as part of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act process to enable parliamentary scrutiny of treaties, the Government are required to lay a relevant treaty, alongside an Explanatory Memorandum, for 21 sitting days before it can be ratified—unless either House adopts a Motion that such a treaty should not be ratified—subject to any additional procedural steps required by the treaty also being concluded. Although it is not a legal requirement for treaties to have completed the process set out in the CRaG Act prior to implementation in domestic law, it has been an informal convention to lay before Parliament the implementing legislation after the treaty in question has undergone the initial 21 days.
Exceptionally, in this case, the CETA was laid in Parliament on 21 January 2026 and formally entered the CRaG process shortly after the draft instrument was laid before Parliament on 19 January 2026, in accordance with the affirmative procedure. The CRaG process concluded on 5 March. This approach has been necessary due to the Government’s desire to bring the CETA into force as quickly as possible, while allowing necessary parliamentary scrutiny, to allow businesses to take advantage of the agreement and to deliver growth across the country.
I hope I have answered all the noble Baroness’s questions. To conclude, this historic agreement marks a major milestone in the UK-India relationship and is one of the most significant bilateral trade agreements that the UK has concluded since leaving the EU. Implementation of the CETA is a key step in opening up new markets and opportunities for British businesses and exports, delivering economic growth across the country. This is especially true in respect of the procurement chapter that we have been discussing, which unlocks unprecedented access to India’s federal procurement market.
(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
Grand CommitteeThat the Grand Committee do consider the Procurement (Amendment) Regulations 2026.
My Lords, these regulations make targeted amendments to the Procurement Regulations 2024 so that key parts of the Procurement Act 2023 operate effectively in practice. They strengthen transparency in a proportionate and deliverable way, and they make a small number of practical improvements to support the smooth operation of the new regime.
Public procurement is how the state translates policy into delivery. It is also where public trust can be won or lost. Transparency is, therefore, not optional. It is a necessary discipline that helps ensure value for money, strengthens accountability, and supports confidence among suppliers and the wider public. After all, this is about public money—taxpayers’ money.
The principal purpose of this instrument is to implement Section 70 of the Act. This requires quarterly publication of information about individual payments over £30,000 made under public contracts. These regulations specify the information that must be published and how it is to be published on the central digital platform so that the payment can be linked to the relevant contract and supplier record. This is designed to allow Parliament, the public, suppliers and contracting authorities to “follow the money” in a meaningful way, seeing what was bought, from whom and what was paid under the contract.
The instrument also closes an important gap by ensuring that suppliers awarded notifiable below-threshold contracts are registered on the central digital platform and have a unique supplier identifier. This is light-touch in practice but important in its effect. It improves traceability across the market, strengthens confidence that procurement data reflects real supplier identity, and supports better understanding of SME and voluntary sector participation.
The instrument also completes the move away from Contracts Finder, a legacy publication route whose functions are being consolidated into the central digital platform. This reduces duplication and confusion for suppliers and authorities, and supports a single, coherent source of procurement information—an important part of making transparency meaningful.
Taken together, these regulations are practical and focused. They implement contract-linked payment transparency, as Parliament intended; close a key data gap on supplier identity for below-threshold awards; and simplify publication by consolidating on to a single platform. For these reasons, I hope that your Lordships will support these regulations, and I beg to move.
My Lords, it is the “Baroness Anderson and Baroness Finn show” again, I am afraid.
We welcome these regulations. Section 70 of the Procurement Act 2023, introduced by the previous Conservative Government, created new reporting requirements for procurement payments over £30,000. The purposes were clear: to improve transparency; to strengthen accountability; and to make it easier for the public to see how taxpayers’ money is being spent. These regulations implement those commitments by specifying the information that must be published and ensuring that it is made available on a central digital platform. That is a sensible and important step.
Transparency is not an administrative afterthought. It is a safeguard. Publishing clear data on payments—including the contracting authority, the supplier, the value of the payment and the date—enables scrutiny, improves financial discipline and supports better value for money. We particularly welcome the move to align reporting requirements across central and local government. A consistent approach reduces confusion and ensures that transparency does not depend on postcode.
However, I would welcome brief clarification from the Minister on two points. First, on implementation, can the Minister confirm that the central digital platform is fully operational, and that contracting authorities have received clear guidance on data standards and reporting formats? Transparency is meaningful only if the data is accessible and consistent. Secondly, on proportionality, although these requirements are reasonable, what assessment has been made of the administrative burden on smaller contracting authorities? It is important that transparency does not inadvertently divert resource from front-line delivery.
Subject to those two questions, we support these regulations. They deliver on clear commitments to open procurement, to better scrutiny and to ensuring that public money is spent in a way that can be properly examined.
My Lords, the problem when there are only two of us, as we are getting used to, is that I do not necessarily have time to answer all the questions, but I will give it a go. As ever, I thank my opposite number, the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, for the points that she has raised. Unless something is about to appear in front of me like magic, I may have to clarify for her in writing, but I promise to do that swiftly. I believe that, yes, the platform is ready, willing and able—with slight modifications due to be put in place, it should be fully up to speed by the end of the year. As for the administrative burden on smaller authorities, we have made sure that everything that can be done to support them is being done. I will write to the noble Baroness with details of that.
These regulations are about making transparency under the 2023 Act operable and meaningful. The core point is that payment transparency works best when payments are linked to the contract and supply a record on the central platform, enabling scrutiny that is joined up rather than fragmented. The additional provisions are tightly connected. They close data gaps that would otherwise weaken transparency and they ensure that the system works in practice during outages and in urgent protect-life situations. The overall model remains proportionate and deliverable. It is quarterly, prospective from 1 April 2026, and early central government experience suggests that initial reporting volumes are manageable. On that basis, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, and commend the regulations.
(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for securing this timely and important debate. It must conclude at 15.02 pm, so I will get through as much as I can. I will obviously look at Hansard. I think I will write a great deal to noble Lords—I apologise.
Before I respond to the substance of the debate, I want to recognise some of the extraordinary contributions we have heard today. Four maiden speeches and one valedictory is quite something in one debate. The thoughtful final contribution to your Lordships’ House from the noble Lord, Lord Offord, was as expected. I understand the business that he founded in 2013 was called Badenoch & Co; I wonder whether the noble Lord is planning on renaming it “Farage & Co”.
I turn to my noble friends who made their wonderful, brilliant maiden speeches today. I was so pleased to see my noble friend Lady Gill join our Benches. I campaigned with her in the West Midlands when she was first elected, which I have now realised was 27 years ago. I am delighted that she was able to use her mother’s Gutka to take her oath.
Turning to my noble friend Lord Docherty’s one-vote win: for many of us, a win is a win. What a wonderful example of how small our world is that Mr McFall—who is now the noble Lord, Lord McFall—has been part of his journey and remains, at least for a time, the man standing at the front.
I have known my noble friend Lord Doyle for more than two decades. I know his family is proud of him because his friends are too. I know that his sister is looking down on him today as she does every day. We are lucky to have him.
My noble friend Lord Pitt-Watson is a child of the manse. He gave us such a thoughtful and considered speech. We are lucky to have him, and I look forward to his contributions.
Moving to the subject at hand, this Government were elected with a clear manifesto commitment to reset relations with our European partners, to tear down unnecessary barriers to trade, and to increase national security through strong borders and greater international co-operation, all without returning to the single market, the customs union or freedom of movement, the red lines in the Labour Party manifesto. That is exactly what we are doing.
In May last year, the Government agreed a new strategic partnership with the EU, which the Government announced at the historic UK-EU summit, the first since Brexit. The deal we secured with the EU is good for bills, good for our borders and good for jobs, and, most importantly, it delivers on what the British people voted for. We now move on with the detailed negotiations. We are making good progress on talks with the EU since the summit to implement the joint commitments made, and I confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, that we aim to reach detailed agreements by the next summit.
As we discussed in your Lordships’ House last month, the UK and the European Commission have agreed a new deal for the UK’s association to Erasmus from 2027, opening up opportunities for students and professionals that will be good not just for young people at university but for those at colleges and in workplaces across the country, who will now have the opportunity to study abroad, broaden horizons, experience other cultures and have a better understanding of the people who are some of our closest allies.
Noble Lords will be aware that we have also concluded exploratory talks on the UK’s participation in the EU’s internal electricity market and are proceeding swiftly with negotiations on a UK-EU electricity agreement. These are important steps in delivering tangible benefits for the people of the United Kingdom, making it clear that rebuilding our relationship with the EU is engagement with a purpose. This closer co-operation will bring real benefits that will be felt by businesses and consumers in the UK and across Europe—the same businesses and consumers who will also feel the benefits of the food and drink agreement which we are negotiating with the EU, boosting our exports and cutting costs for importers.
In part in response to the genuine concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, I say that an SPS agreement will be highly beneficial to Northern Ireland. It will remove a broad and wide-ranging set of requirements for goods and plants moving from Great Britain to NI because the same regulations will be followed across the UK. Agreement will smooth flows of trade, protect the UK’s internal market, reduce costs for businesses and improve consumer choice in Northern Ireland. The same businesses and consumers who will benefit from that will also feel the benefit of linking our carbon markets—cutting costs, making it cheaper for UK companies to move to green energy and, once agreed, saving the EU carbon border adjustment mechanism charge being paid on £7 billion-worth of UK goods exported to the EU.
By the time of the next UK-EU summit, we aim to have concluded the negotiations not only on a food and drink deal but on linking our carbon markets, and to have agreed a youth experience scheme. The food and drink and ETS linking measures alone are set to add up to £9 billion a year in the UK economy by 2040 in a significant boost for growth, bringing down bills for British people and opening up new opportunities.
I have 30 seconds left. I have a great deal more to say, but I will undoubtedly discuss these matters repeatedly in your Lordships’ House in the coming months and years. The one thing I will say is that this Government, within the red lines we have outlined in our manifesto, are committed to delivering for the people of the UK and resetting our relationship with the European Union.