Crime and Policing Bill
(1 day, 7 hours ago)
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16:27 - Division on Amendment 2 (to Amendment 1) - Ayes: 306 / Noes: 145 - Amendment 2 (to Amendment 1) agreed.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)
My Lords, I would like to make a short statement on the position regarding the legislative consent Motion on this Bill. While the majority of the provisions in the Bill apply to England and Wales only, certain provisions apply also to Scotland and Northern Ireland. The provisions relate to a mix of excepted, reserved and devolved or transferred matters, and as such engage the legislative consent process in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
I am pleased to inform the House that yesterday, 24 March, the Scottish Parliament approved a legislative consent Motion in respect of the Bill put forward and supported by the Scottish Government. The Northern Ireland Assembly approved three legislative consent Motions on 23 June, 2 February and 16 March. However, on 10 March the Welsh Senedd debated a legislative consent Motion put forward and supported by the Welsh Government, but the Motion was not supported by the Senedd. This is regrettable, given the measures in the Bill that engage the legislative consent process include a range of offences, such as assault on a retail worker, mobile phone theft, sexual exploitation and others. I cannot for the life of me understand why Plaid Cymru, Reform, Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members opposed the consent Motion in the Welsh Senedd—but they did, and they will have to be accountable for that.
I believe the Bill should pass. We are in discussion with the Welsh Government and the Wales Office about the way forward, and we will set out the Government’s position when the Bill is next considered by the House of Commons after the Recess. In the meantime, I beg to move that the Bill be read a third time.
Lord Hanson of Flint
“Taking down intimate image content(1) The Online Safety Act 2023 is amended as follows.(2) In section 10 (regulated user-to-user services: safety duties about illegal content) after subsection (3) insert—“(3A) A duty to operate a service using proportionate systems and processes designed to take down—(a) content in relation to which an intimate image content report is made to the provider (see section 20A(2)), and(b) any other content identified by the provider as the same, or substantially the same, as that content,as soon as reasonably practicable, and no later than 48 hours, after the provider receives the report (unless subsection (3B) applies).(3B) This subsection applies if the provider considers that—(a) the content is not intimate image content, or(b) the person making the report is not—(i) the subject of the content, or(ii) a person acting on that person’s behalf.”(3) After section 20 (duty about content reporting) insert—“20A Reporting of intimate image content(1) The duty in section 20(2) includes a duty to operate a service using systems and processes that allow users and affected persons to easily make an intimate image content report to the provider.(2) An “intimate image content report” is a report which—(a) declares that content present on the service is intimate image content,(b) declares that the report is made by—(i) the subject of the content, or(ii) a person acting on that person’s behalf,(c) provides sufficient information about the content for the provider to identify it,(d) provides contact details for the person making the report, and(e) complies with any other requirements specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State.(3) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about how the requirements in subsection (2)(a) to (d) are to be met.”(4) In section 21 (duties about complaints procedures) after subsection (2) insert—“(2A) The duty in subsection (2) includes a duty to operate an expedited complaints procedure in relation to complaints within subsection (4)(a), (b)(i) or (b)(ii) that—(a) are made by users or affected persons who have made an intimate image content report (see section 20A(2)), and(b) are about the content to which the report relates.”(5) In section 27 (regulated search services: safety duties about illegal content) after subsection (3) insert— “(3A) A duty to operate a service using proportionate systems and processes designed to ensure that individuals are no longer able to encounter—(a) search content in relation to which an intimate image content report is made to the provider (see section 31A(2)), and(b) any other search content identified by the provider as the same, or substantially the same, as that content,as soon as reasonably practicable, and no later than 48 hours, after the provider receives the report (unless subsection (3B) applies).(3B) This subsection applies if the provider considers that—(a) the search content is not intimate image content, or(b) the person making the report is not—(i) the subject of the content, or(ii) a person acting on that person’s behalf.”(6) After section 31 (duty about content reporting) insert—“31A Reporting of intimate image content(1) The duty in section 31(2) includes a duty to operate a service using systems and processes that allow users and affected persons to easily make an intimate image content report to the provider.(2) An “intimate image content report” is a report which—(a) declares that search content is intimate image content,(b) declares that the report is made by—(i) the subject of the content, or(ii) a person acting on that person’s behalf,(c) provides sufficient information about the search content for the provider to identify it,(d) provides contact details for the person making the report, and(e) complies with any other requirements specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State.(3) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about how the requirements in subsection (2)(a) to (d) are to be met.”(7) In section 32 (duties about complaints procedures) after subsection (2) insert—“(2A) The duty in subsection (2) includes a duty to operate an expedited complaints procedure in relation to complaints within subsection (4)(a), (b)(i) or (b)(ii) that—(a) are made by users or affected persons who have made an intimate image content report (see section 31A(2)), and(b) are about the search content to which the report relates.”(8) In section 59 (meaning of “illegal content” etc) after subsection (10) insert—“(10A) “Intimate image content” means content that amounts to an offence under section 66B(1), (2) or (3) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (sharing intimate image of a person without consent).””Member’s explanatory statement
This new clause amends the Online Safety Act 2023 to impose new duties about removing content which is reported to providers as intimate image content.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
My Lords, government Amendments 1, 14 and 18 deliver on the Government’s commitment to ensure that the strongest protections possible on violence against women and girls online are in place. They seek to create a reporting mechanism for non-consensual intimate images and a requirement that processes and systems be in place so that such content, and any content which is
“the same, or substantially the same”,
is removed within 48 hours.
In moving these amendments, I pay tribute to the work of the noble Baroness, Lady Owen of Alderley Edge, in both raising and being a tireless campaigner on this issue in your Lordships’ House.
We all know that non-consensual intimate image abuse is utterly vile, and the Government are very clear that we will not allow the proliferation of demeaning and degrading images online. I believe that the House is united in recognising the profound and lasting harm that this form of abuse inflicts on victims, and we share a common determination to ensure that victims receive meaningful protection. The Government are committed to delivering a strong, clear, enforceable response across the online safety regime. I am very grateful for the constructive engagement that has been crucial in shaping this amendment, both by the noble Baroness and by my noble friend Lady Levitt.
The Online Safety Act already places robust duties on services to minimise illegal content, including intimate image offences, and provides effective reporting and complaints mechanisms for users. However, given the particular and often acute impact of intimate image abuse, the Government have now committed to going further to set out specific expectations of how platforms must respond when this content is reported.
That brings me to Amendment 1, which delivers on the commitment that we have made to ensure that the strongest protections possible on violence against women and girls online are in place. Amendment 1 seeks to create a reporting mechanism for non-consensual intimate images and a requirement that processes and systems be in place so that such content and any content which is the same or substantially the same is removed within 48 hours.
This builds on the work already undertaken to strengthen the Online Safety Act. The House has already agreed amendments that make requesting or making intimate images and sharing or threatening to share them primary offences under the Online Safety Act. This amendment will impose additional duties on all regulated services and will require platforms to prioritise, detect, mitigate and remove this illegal content more quickly and systematically.
Amendment 1 goes further and delivers on the commitment of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister at the end of February to put social media companies on notice to take down any non-consensual intimate images within 48 hours. The Government’s amendment will introduce a clear, enforceable, statutory duty requiring platforms to have systems and processes in place to remove reported information as soon as possible and within 48 hours.
The duty is designed to work with the Online Safety Act’s systems and processes framework, ensuring that Ofcom can enforce it effectively at scale and deliver for victims of intimate image abuse. This also means that the amendment will be subject to the full suite of enforcement powers at Ofcom’s disposal.
I want to tell the House that Ofcom is to consult on additional safety measures to support the removal of re-uploads, including work on a hash-matching regime, which would require relevant services to adopt technology to detect and prevent re-uploads of non-consensual intimate images. Together, the statutory take-down duty and the hash-matching measures will create a joined-up system that delivers a stronger and more sustainable protection for victims than a stand-alone 48-hour rule.
“(3AA) A duty to record and report the average time taken to take down content under the duty in subsection (3A) to OFCOM and to publish the information publicly.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services must report the average time they take to remove non-consensual intimate images.
Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)
My Lords, I will speak to the government amendments and to the amendments in my name and in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, and the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Stevenson of Balmacara. In doing so, I declare an interest as receiving pro bono legal advice from Mishcon de Reya on image-based sexual abuse.
I am grateful to the Government for working with me to bring forward their amendment in response to my amendment in Committee on 48-hour take-down. I am pleased they are working with me on the amendments that your Lordships’ House passed on Report on the creation of a centralised hash registry and hash sharing. I must add that it is disappointing that after months of speaking to the Government about the importance of hashing and 48-hour amendments working together that they cannot be scrutinised together.
While I am very pleased that government Amendment 1 addresses the concerns I brought forward on de-indexing and duplicates, I do not believe it is sufficient to achieve the mechanism I set out to create in my original 48-hour take-down amendment in Committee. My intention was to create a system where no victim is left behind. This requires the mechanism to be agile and for internet services to feel the consequence of not acting on each individual instance reported. The government amendment has done the bare minimum and simply updated the Online Safety Act where it already instructed internet services to swiftly take down such content, to now add,
“as soon as reasonably practicable, and no later than 48 hours”.
In reality, this represents very little change as the good actors will still move at pace and the bad actors will continue to ignore. One survivor, Jodie, who many noble Lords have met, responded to the government amendment by saying that
“it is hugely frustrating to see headline grabbing commitments without the substance needed to actually protect victims. A 48-hour deadline sounds strong, especially when delivered by the Prime Minister to millions on breakfast television, but without real enforcement it risks creating false hope”.
Another victim, Daria, said:
“As a survivor, I feel this is quite simply gaslighting”.
We must remember that Ofcom rules are about systems and processes, and not outcomes. If a service has followed the rules but individual violations still occur, an internet service will not be held responsible. Sophie Mortimer at the Revenge Porn Helpline confirmed this, stating:
“While the platforms that already act in good faith will meet these standards, the persistent bad actors who continue to drive the sharing of this content will ignore and the Government amendment does not give Ofcom enough weapons to respond”.
I am deeply concerned that the Government have not specified how Ofcom will even know if a service fails to act within 48 hours. Ofcom has confirmed that there is no automatic mechanism for it to know whether services are not meeting the 48-hour take-down requirement in any given case. Further, the only recourse the Government provide should a service be found to generally not comply are the long and bureaucratic business disruption measures. This means that women will still suffer ongoing trauma when platforms refuse to comply.
My amendments seek to address the gaps in the government amendments, and I will outline them briefly. Amendments 2 and 8 mandate services to publicly report—and report to Ofcom—their average take-down times.
Amendments 3 and 9 strengthen the government wording on finding duplicate images to ensure that services have to take all reasonable steps, instead of simply relying on what a service may identify.
Amendments 4 and 10 incentivise services to act by creating a more agile mechanism whereby they can be fined per violation, and this can increase for every 24-hour period in which they fail to act, thus ensuring there is a consequence for not acting on individual instances of abuse. I believe these amendments create a more agile mechanism and do not rely solely on business disruption measures. This amendment is based on the TAKE IT DOWN Act, which operates under the rules of the Federal Trade Commission in the USA. The sum I have chosen is based on the figure levied under FTC rules for continued instances of violation after companies have been notified.
Amendments 5 and 11 mandate the Secretary of State to create a mechanism whereby individuals can report to Ofcom in cases where the service provider has failed to remove the content within 48 hours. At present, it is not clear what a victim would do if they reported the content to a service which then failed to act after the initial 48 hours.
Amendments 6 and 12 ensure that services have “clear and conspicuous” notices of where victims can report NCII content. This uses the wording from the TAKE IT DOWN Act and gives more clarity to internet services. The government amendment and the Online Safety Act refer simply to being able
“to easily make an intimate image content report to the provider”.
Amendments 7 and 13 add provisions that seek to curb malicious reporting by requiring a statement that the report has been made “in good faith”. Additionally, this provides internet services with further assurances they need to act more quickly upon receiving reports.
I am grateful to the Government for coming to the table on this issue. However, victims deserve so much more than press releases that promise action but in reality represent little practical change in the most traumatic moment of their lives. I implore noble Lords to vote with me so that no victim is left behind. I beg to move.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)
My Lords, at Third Reading it is extraordinarily rare to find issues still in contest, and to be presented, as we have been today, with a choice on which we will have to vote. Normally, by this stage, the issues have been clearly discussed and the parties concerned—the Government on the one side and those proposing amendments on the other—have had enough meetings to be able to get to a point where they can agree on what is going forward.
Having said that, I am sure that the whole House is very grateful to my noble friend the Minister for bringing forward what he has brought forward. These are substantial changes to the Online Safety Act and they are extraordinarily welcome. They cover the ground very well, but, as has been pointed out, they perhaps do not go quite as far as they could do. We are at Third Reading, so it is therefore very difficult to find the time and space to be able to resolve what I think are relatively quite small differences between the two sides.
I point out simply to my noble friend the Minister that this places those of us who support the noble Baroness in her amendments in a difficult position about his amendments, which we want to support; but the only way to get them to resolution is probably to vote with the noble Baroness. I hope he will appreciate that, and I suggest to him that, when he comes to respond, he makes it very clear that the Government are still willing to talk about these issues and still willing to meet those who have concerns and views about what the Government have done. I hope he might be able to promise that action could be taken in the Commons to resolve this.
Baroness Kidron (CB)
My Lords, I too support the noble Baroness, Lady Owen. As ever, she has spoken fantastically convincingly to her amendments, which sit in a broader set of aims that we have heard in Committee and on Report—at many stages. While recognising that the Government have moved considerably, I believe that we are debating this again in the context of a flood of women coming forward as survivors of non-consensual image abuse. As the harms are ever increasing, I am putting my faith in the noble Baroness’s interpretation of what is still necessary. Her amendments do something really important. I have spoken about this before and will do so on a later Bill this afternoon, but we need to tackle the issue of enforcement.
We cannot keep on adding duties to the Online Safety Act and expecting something to be different at the other end. In fact, we are adding a burden for people without giving them the tools by which that burden could be alleviated. The noble Baroness’s amendments have sought to create a more streamlined and agile system by allowing for fines every 24 hours in which an image is not removed. We have to find an incentive for tech to come to terms with the regulator, and the noble Baroness is doing just that. Unless we put a ticking clock on online services for failing to respond to harms to children and women, we cannot hope that women and children will be safe.
Lord Pannick (CB)
I add my support to the noble Baroness, Lady Owen. The noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, puts her finger on it: enforcement is key here, and it is key because we all know that without serious enforcement, these companies, which will be acting in breach of the law, will simply not comply. What will make them comply are substantial fines to hit them in the pocketbook. That is the only thing that will make them comply, and that is why I support the noble Baroness, Lady Owen.
Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I point out briefly that the essence of where the noble Baroness, Lady Owen, is coming from is that she speaks directly from the experience of the victims who have suffered from this. It is the victims themselves who have been struggling with the existing system, often in vain and with huge amounts of frustration. It is the victims who have been looking at the Government’s well-intended amendment, and on the basis of their own experience and knowledge, bitterly won, they feel strongly that it does not go far enough. They want others who are being abused at the moment, and trying to get some sort of redress, not to go through the same agony and pain that they have. I implore the Government to listen carefully, because this is the victims speaking directly to them. It is not the regulator; these are the victims, and the victims who are coming through the pipeline should be prioritised above all.
Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd (CB)
My Lords, can I add one word? In my experience in dealing with a large number of offences where corporations were responsible, it is only fines—and fines of a substantial amount—that have any real effect. The fines in this Bill are modest, in my view. I hope everyone will realise that unless we put something by way of a fine in, we are making law without effect.
Baroness Bertin (Con)
My Lords, I support the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Owen. I will not repeat what others have said eloquently. I will just speak quickly to my amendments, which are procedural. I have tabled Amendments 15 to 17, which I should have formally moved on Report—human error there, apologies. They were agreed by the Government to be consequential on my original Amendment 297AA, which passed with the support of this House, regarding the banning of depictions of step-incest in pornography. I shall simply move them formally and will not revisit the arguments, apart from to say I am pleased that the conversations I am having with the Government are positive. I am hopeful that we will be able to reach an agreement that sees this appalling and abusive content made illegal, as it should be.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, I really wish this Government would listen to common sense sometimes. Can the Minister please go back to No. 10 and explain that this is urgent?
Lord Clement-Jones (LD)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow noble Lords who have spoken in support of the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Owen of Alderley Edge. I rise to express our firm support on these Benches for Amendments 2 to 13, which the noble Baroness has brought forward and which I have signed, to the Government’s new clause. We also support the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Bertin.
Like the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, we acknowledge that the Government have moved “substantially”, which I believe was the word used by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson. By tabling Amendment 1 they have accepted the principle of a 48-hour statutory take-down limit for non-consensual intimate images. I was also pleased to hear what the Minister said about ongoing hash-matching work.
Lord Davies of Gower (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friends Lady Owen of Alderley Edge and Lady Bertin, and the Minister, for their amendments. As my noble friend Lady Bertin said, her amendments were agreed as a package on Report and should have been moved then. We supported them at that time, and understand that the Government will accept them today.
While it is welcome that the Government have brought their Amendments 1 and 14, as they promised on Report, I join my noble friend Lady Owen in expressing concern about the drafting and the fact that the Government do not seem to know where they are going with this. The Prime Minister announced on 19 February that the 48-hour take-down for non-consensual intimate images would be government policy, but it is very clear that the Government do not actually know how they will implement the policy. My noble friend has explained why she believes that the Government’s amendment is defective. I hope that the Government will listen to her and accept the amendments. If they do not, we will support my noble friend in the Division Lobbies.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
I am grateful to the Baroness, Lady Owen, for tabling her amendments and initiating this discussion. I feel like someone who has brought a birthday cake to a party, only to have someone else blow the candles out. On behalf of the Prime Minister, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office, I have tried my best to bring forward proposals that meet the objectives the Government themselves have set, as well as those of the noble Baroness.
Taken together, Amendments 2 to 13 would amend government Amendment 1 by introducing fixed penalties, public performance reporting and new escalation routes to Ofcom. I note the support for these amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, from the Liberal Democrat Benches; the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower; my noble friend Lord Stevenson of Balmacara; the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron; the noble Lord, Lord Pannick; and the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool. I also note the short, sharp intervention from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, which I very much welcomed.
On the proposal to require services to publish average take-down times, I say to the noble Baroness and others that I recognise the desire for both transparency and public accountability. Ofcom already has the power to request information of this nature, which would also apply to the Government’s amendment. However, publicly benchmarking speed in this way risks hardwiring the wrong incentive into the system. This duty is not intended to be a race to remove any reported content at all costs, including where reports are mistaken, malicious or vexatious. Parliament is asking providers to act quickly and responsibly, which necessarily includes occasionally verifying that reports are valid.
A single, public average-time metric could encourage the unintended removal of lawful content, undermine procedural safeguards and, critically, ultimately undermine confidence in the regime among the very victims this Government wish to stand with the noble Baroness in support of. Ofcom has strong powers to require detailed performance data where there are concerns about systemic compliance. Regulator-led scrutiny is a more effective, credible and proportionate means of accountability that ensures a regime that best delivers for its victims.
Amendments 3 and 9 would require providers to take all reasonable steps to identify duplicates or substantially similar content. I share that objective on behalf of the Government. Providers are already required to take proportionate steps to seek out this illegal content under wider illegal content duties.
On the proposal of specific fines, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, mentioned that it is important that there are financial consequences for any illegal action. I say to them and to the noble Baroness that, as they know, the Online Safety Act already equips Ofcom with very strong enforcement powers. Ofcom can already issue a heavy fine of up to 10% of qualifying worldwide revenue in the event of contravention of regulations that Ofcom is empowered to monitor, and these fines can even be augmented with daily fines on a case-by-case basis. Therefore, it is not necessary to introduce an additional fixed-rate fine mechanism on the face of the Bill, given that a 10% fine on qualifying worldwide revenue is a significant and effective potential punishment from Ofcom, which has those enforcement powers.
Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)
Can the Minister say what an individual woman should do if her content is not removed within 48 hours? Is the Minister suggesting that, without a mechanism to contact Ofcom, she waits for Ofcom to recognise that a website has failed in its duty, and therefore for the Secretary of State to mandate long and bureaucratic business disruption measures, and for Ofcom to seek 10% of the business’s worldwide revenue—and all the while her intimate image is left online?
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
The purpose of the regulation is to provide a disincentive to putting content up in the first place. If anybody who places that content on any online platform knows that Ofcom has the power to levy a 10% fine on worldwide revenue, there will be that disincentive. The purpose of that power is to deter people from breaking the law. Coupled with the powers in government Amendment 1, it will provide strong reassurance to anybody who has had illegal content put online by any particular organisation or individual.
There may be an honest disagreement between the noble Baroness and me on this, but I want to prevent any illegal content being put up in the first place. I would argue that a 10% fine of any worldwide revenue for the platform that hosts that content is a significant contribution. It would mean, ultimately, that Ofcom has the power to cause significant damage to any organisation that puts up that illegal content. I accept and understand the concerns that have been raised; I just hope that the noble Baroness can also understand that the Government are trying to support the very victims she speaks about.
We appreciate the intention behind enabling individuals also to report non-compliance. They can raise that concern through Ofcom’s reporting portal, and such reports can signal potential systemic issues and can be used for wider investigations, as I have just mentioned. I also recognise the urgency with which victims rightly expect this content to be removed—the very point the noble Baroness has just made. I consider that a systems and processes approach remains the most effective way to secure consistent compliance and deliver protection at scale.
On the amendment the noble Baroness has brought forward that would require providers to display reporting notices and routes, the 2023 Act already requires platforms to have clear, accessible reporting routes that allow users to easily make intimate image reports. Again, Ofcom is best placed to specify details about this in its code of practice. Turning to proposals for good faith declarations, the government amendment requires reporting individuals to state that the content is intimate image content and that they are the subject of that content or are acting on the subject’s behalf. Additionally, the Secretary of State has regulation-making powers to specify further requirements if needed. I hope that that satisfies the noble Baroness. I hope the House can recognise that the Government have moved significantly on this issue, but we will hear the noble Baroness’s response in due course.
Amendments 15 to 17, proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Bertin, are accepted by the Government. They were, as she has said, tidying-up amendments agreed by the House on Report but sadly missed. As such, the Government will not oppose the amendments and will actively support them. This is, however, without prejudice to any further consideration of the substantive amendments carried on Report. We will set out the Government’s position on these and other amendments passed on Report when the Bill returns to your Lordships’ House after the Easter Recess, once it has been considered by the House of Commons.
I have tried to be constructive in my response on behalf of the whole of the Government—from the Prime Minister to the different departments that have contributed to this. I hope they were helpful engagements. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Owen, for her amendments, and I hope that, having heard what has been said—it is, perhaps, with little hope—she will withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)
My Lords I thank the Minister for his response. I feel that, on this point, we have not reached an agreement. While 10% of an internet service’s worldwide revenue is great, a more agile system where no woman and no victim is left behind is much better. With that, I wish to test the opinion of the House.
“(3AA) In fulfilling their duty under subsection (3A)(b), the provider must take all reasonable steps to identify any other content that is the same, or substantially the same, as the content in the report.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services must take all reasonable steps to find non-consensual intimate image content that is a duplicate of (or substantially the same as) reported content.
“(3C) Failure to comply with a duty under subsection (3A) may result in a fine of £39,000 for each 24 hour period following the 48 hours allowed to take the content down, payable to OFCOM.(3D) The fine payable under subsection (3C) may be increased by OFCOM following a review.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment provides an alternative to business disruption measures under the Online Safety Act 2023, so that fines can be levied more quickly, to incentivise content removal to happen faster.
“(3C) The Secretary of State must, by regulations within six months of the day on which the Crime and Policing Act 2026 is passed, establish a process for individuals to report to OFCOM that a service has failed in its duty under subsection (3A).(3D) The process under subsection (3C) must be easily accessible and must be identified by the service provider in their notice under section 20A(1). (3E) OFCOM must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the reporting process under subsection (3C) is easily identifiable and accessible.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that, where an internet service has failed to act within 48 hours, individuals can report this to OFCOM.
(a) is easy to read and in plain language, and(b) provides information regarding the responsibilities of the service under this section, including a description of how an individual can submit an intimate image content report.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services have to clearly display notices which explain how non-consensual intimate images can be reported and removed.
“(4) A report made under this section must include a statement that the reporting person or authorised representative makes the report in good faith believing that the content is of the kind specified in section 20 and a statement that the information provided in the report is true to the best of their knowledge and belief.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to curb malicious reporting.
“(3AA) A duty to record and report the average time taken to take down content under the duty in subsection (3A) to OFCOM and to publish the information publicly.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services must report the average time they take to remove non-consensual intimate images.
“(3AA) In fulfilling their duty under subsection (3A)(b), the provider must take all reasonable steps to identify any other content that is the same, or substantially the same, as the content in the report.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services must take all reasonable steps to find non-consensual intimate image content that is a duplicate of (or substantially the same as) reported content.
“(3C) Failure to comply with a duty under subsection (3A) may result in a fine of £39,000 for each 24 hour period following the 48 hours allowed to take the content down, payable to OFCOM.(3D) The fine payable under subsection (3C) may be increased by OFCOM following a review.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment provides an alternative to business disruption measures under the Online Safety Act 2023, so that fines can be levied more quickly, to incentivise content removal to happen faster.
“(3C) The Secretary of State must, by regulations within six months of the day on which the Crime and Policing Act 2026 is passed, establish a process for individuals to report to OFCOM that a service has failed in its duty under subsection (3A). (3D) The process under subsection (3C) must be easily accessible and must be identified by the service provider in their notice under section 31A(1).(3E) OFCOM must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the reporting process under subsection (3C) is easily identifiable and accessible.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that, where an internet service has failed to act within 48 hours, individuals can report this to OFCOM.
(a) is easy to read and in plain language, and(b) provides information regarding the responsibilities of the service under this section, including a description of how an individual can submit an intimate image content report.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to ensure that internet services have to clearly display notices which explain how non-consensual intimate images can be reported and removed.
“(4) A report made under this section must include a statement that the reporting person or authorised representative makes the report in good faith believing that the content is of the kind specified in section 31 and a statement that the information provided in the report is true to the best of their knowledge and belief.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment seeks to curb malicious reporting.
Lord Hanson of Flint
“Taking down intimate image content: consequential amendments(1) The Online Safety Act 2023 is amended as follows.(2) In section 10 (regulated user-to-user services: safety duties about illegal content)—(a) in subsection (4) for “and (3)” substitute “to (3A)”;(b) in subsection (5)—(i) the words from “each paragraph” to the end become paragraph (a);(ii) at the end of that paragraph insert“, and(b) subsection (3A).”;(c) in subsection (7) for “subsection (2) or (3)” substitute “subsections (2) to (3A)”.(3) In section 23(5) (record-keeping and review duties) for “or (3)”, in the first place it occurs, substitute “, (3) or (3A)”.(4) In section 27 (regulated search services: safety duties about illegal content)—(a) in subsection (4) for “and (3)” substitute “to (3A)”;(b) in subsection (7) for “subsection (2) or (3)” substitute “subsections (2) to (3A)”. (5) In section 34(5) (record-keeping and review duties), for “or (3)”, in the first place it occurs, substitute “, (3) or (3A)”.(6) In section 59(14) (meaning of “illegal content” etc) for “and “priority illegal content”” substitute “, “priority illegal content” and “intimate image content””.(7) In section 71(2)(a)(i) (duty not to take down content except in accordance with terms of service: exceptions) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”.(8) In section 136(5) (confirmation decisions: proactive technology)—(a) in paragraph (a) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”;(b) in paragraph (c) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”.(9) In section 237 (index of defined terms) at the appropriate place insert—
(10) In Schedule 4 (codes of practice)—(a) in paragraph 9(1) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”;(b) in paragraph 9(3) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”;(c) in paragraph 13(3)(a) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”;(d) in paragraph 13(3)(c) for “or (3)” substitute “, (3) or (3A)”.”Member's explanatory statement
This new clause makes amendments to the Online Safety Act 2023 which are consequential on those made by my new clause (Taking down intimate image content).
Baroness Bertin
Lord Hanson of Flint
“(ma) sections (Taking down intimate image content) and (Taking down intimate image content: consequential amendments);”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment provides for the specified new clauses to have UK extent.
“(z4a) section 207(9);”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment gives UK extent to the specified provision, since it amends an Act which has UK extent.
Lord Hanson of Flint
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment (and my other amendment to Schedule 2) corrects an amendment to section 78 of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 to refer to a closure notice instead of an extension notice.
Member's explanatory statement
See my other amendment to Schedule 2.
Captain of the Honourable Corps of Gentlemen-at-Arms and Chief Whip (Lord Kennedy of Southwark) (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, before we move on to the Motion that the Bill do now pass, I understand that the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, has tabled an amendment. I expect the debate on that to be brief and to be contained to the narrow subject it seeks to address, relating to an impact assessment. This is not the opportunity for another long debate about the general issues which have already been debated at length in this House and on which the House has made its mind very clear. I urge noble Lords to consider carefully whether a contribution is necessary, and to keep any remarks concise and focused on the amendment before us.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to your Lordships’ House for the contributions that have been made on the Bill. We have spent over 88 hours in Committee, we have had a full day’s Second Reading and 44 hours on Report, and we have spent an hour on the Bill now—all of which is good, rigorous scrutiny, and a considerable amount of it. The Bill leaves the House with a few extra pages and some extra government policy based on manifesto commitments. In doing so, it will better support the delivery of the Government’s safer streets mission to halve knife crime and see a reduction in violence against women and girls within a decade.
I am pleased, overall, with the contributions and the degree of cross-party agreement there has been across the House. We will continue to reflect on a number of the amendments that were made, contrary to my advice, and the debates we have had to date. When the Bill returns to the House after the Easter Recess, we will examine what else will be done in relation to the view of the Commons, the Government and this House.
I could not have done this Bill without the unstinting help of my noble friends Lady Levitt and Lord Katz, and I am grateful to them. Scrutiny is a great thing—I have done it myself when in opposition. It is important to test the Government and to put forward alternative ideas. Despite our agreements on some issues and our disagreements on others, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Davies of Gower, Lord Cameron of Lochiel and Lord Sandhurst, from the Opposition Front Bench, and to the noble Baronesses, Lady Doocey and Lady Brinton, and the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, from the Liberal Democrat Benches, and to all noble Lords who have spoken in this and other debates.
Given that we sat late on a number of occasions, I put on record on behalf of the whole House our thanks to the doorkeepers and staff of the House. There were a few days when I did not know what time I was going home—and neither did they. It is important that we recognise their contribution to our parliamentary scrutiny. I must place on record my thanks to the Home Office team and the Ministry of Justice Bill team, to the policy officials from the Department for Transport, Defra, the Department of Health, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, the Ministry of Defence and DSIT, and to the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, No. 10 Downing Street and our private offices—all of whom have contributed and all of whom I and my fellow Ministers have spoken on behalf of in this Chamber.
This has been the largest justice Bill in a generation, and my goodness, does it not feel like it? It provides a number of measures for the Government on key issues to help prevent harms, to bring offenders to justice and to secure our community in a much safer way. There will be more parliamentary encounters to come after the recess but, in the meantime, I hope that we will help build safer streets, safer communities and a safer Britain. I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.
Amendment to the Motion
Baroness O'Loan
At end insert “but that this House regrets that no impact assessment was conducted in relation to clause 246, and that therefore the House has not been able to assess its potential effects on vulnerable persons, women’s health, criminal law, and policing”.
Baroness O'Loan (CB)
My Lords, the effect of Clause 246 of this Bill is to decriminalise abortion at any stage of the baby’s gestation where the baby’s life is terminated by the mother, but in no other circumstances. It is a matter of concern that we find ourselves today passing a Bill which contains Clause 246, given the dearth of information upon which noble Lords were asked to make a decision—hence my regret amendment.
The Cabinet Office Guide to Making Legislation states that an impact assessment is a vital tool to help Parliament understand the
“consequences of a proposed intervention
and to identify the
“associated risks of a proposal that might have an impact on the public … and wider society”.
Undeniably, Clause 246 required an impact assessment to identify the consequences and risks. That did not happen.
It is possible to be both neutral and objective and to respect conscience while considering policy implications and outcomes. This clause originated as a late Back-Bench amendment. As others have said, there was not enough scrutiny in the other place, or indeed here. Last week, many Peers were denied the opportunity to speak to amendments which they had signed or supported on this most fundamental and important of issues—the life and death of the baby and the danger to its mother.
We have been unable to evaluate adequately the operational impact of Clause 246 on policing. We lack clear evidence on how the removal of existing deterrents will affect the investigation of genuine cases of infanticide or the detection of women being coerced by a third party into dangerous late-term abortion. We have not been able properly to assess healthcare implications. There will surely have to be guidance issued to those who respond to a request for help in connection with such an abortion, which may turn out to require investigation as a criminal offence may have been committed by a third party, be that a coercive partner or a family member or other who does not want any child, or in some cases, unfortunately, a girl child, to be born.
During the debate, I asked the question: how is the mother to kill her child at these late stages so that she can abort it? I never received an answer. It seems to me that the Government must be aware that, if a woman decides to abort a baby herself after 24 weeks, she may need help to do so. Do the Government intend to publicise the fact that it will still be an offence to help a mother abort her baby in these circumstances?
Do they intend to highlight the fact that heavy bleeding, infection, damage to the womb and sepsis are all possible consequences of an abortion? What of the risks of prescription or over-the-counter drug overdoses as a woman seeks to abort her baby and to control her pain and that of her unborn child?
Paramedics responding to a 999 call where a woman is haemorrhaging or where a baby is stuck in the birth canal will have to try to save the life of both mother and baby, unless the baby is already dead. But there are a few precious moments when a baby who does not breathe automatically at birth can be encouraged to live and may well do so. What is the paramedic to do? Presumably, if the woman gets to hospital before delivering, it will be incumbent on nurses and doctors to attempt to save not only the mother but the child. Surely the child will not be left to die uncared for, as happens when babies are born alive after abortion. Guidance will be needed. What additional services—medical and mental health services—might need to be provided in these cases?
Finally, do we need some provision on what the mother can do with her little dead baby? Is she able to bury it? Can somebody else bury it? How will the police be able to determine whether a baby was born alive and killed after death if the baby’s body has been disposed of? What if the trauma of delivering the child is such that the mother is unable to bury the child? What if she was subject to coercion and is torn by grief? What can she do? What is to happen?
Today, I am sending an open parliamentary letter to the Home Secretary and the Minister for Health from some 80 Peers and MPs, articulating these and other concerns. These issues should surely concern His Majesty’s Government. Can the Minister say how the Government intend to take these matters forward to address these life and death issues?
Baroness Lawlor (Con)
My Lords, the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, regrets the failure to conduct an impact assessment in relation to Clause 246. Yet, as we have heard, the clause that decriminalises abortion up to birth will have the gravest of consequences for viable babies—now protected in law—for their mothers’ health and for our society. Including it in this Bill will render the Bill notorious.
Constitutionally, it is wrong. Laws, particularly on controversial and grave matters, are subject to two important conditions in Britain’s constitution. First, they must have a popular mandate, a condition that militated against the arbitrary exercise of executive power for hundreds of years, even before the 20th century brought universal adult suffrage, as Parliaments and leaders respected a popular wish. Secondly, they must meet the more formal requirements now in place for pre-election announcements, manifestos and pre-legislative consultation, including an impact assessment, detailed parliamentary scrutiny in both Chambers, revision, modification and, finally, some sort of legislative agreement.
Clause 246 is a highly controversial measure. Arguably, its consequences are the most serious of any legislation that this Government have passed. It has had neither a popular mandate nor parliamentary scrutiny. Clause 246 has been tacked on to a government Bill by a group of militant abortionists determined to manipulate parliamentary rules. It has had only 46 minutes of debate in the House of Commons. I am afraid it plays to the weakness of a Prime Minister orchestrating the factions of a divided Labour Party as he seeks to stay in power and fend off rival challenges.
Baroness Lawlor (Con)
It reveals a Government unequal to the great task of governing the nation with which the electorate has entrusted it.
I particularly regret it because it brings disgrace to the Mother of Parliaments and, indirectly, to a country which, although it had no hand in the matter, could always hold its head high when its neighbours suffered instability, revolution and dictatorship. They could take comfort because, as has so often rightly been said, we have a constitutional way of solving our differences.
Lord Pannick (CB)
My Lords, I know the noble Baronesses, Lady Lawlor and Lady O’Loan, feel very strongly about this matter, and they are perfectly entitled to do so. But we debated this at length in Committee: we had four hours-worth of debate then. We debated it for two hours last week on Report. Both noble Baronesses expressed their views very powerfully and at length, but the House did not agree with them. The House voted for this clause and I respectfully suggest that it is entirely inappropriate for us to debate it again.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)
Before anyone else comes in, I will just say that we should be addressing only the narrow issue of the impact assessment and nothing else.
Lord Biggar (Con)
My Lords, I rise to speak for no more than 90 seconds in support of the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan.
When we in this House voted through Clause 246 last week, we had failed to consider an important logical effect. In voting to decriminalise abortion by the mother up to the eve of birth, we decriminalised the deliberate killing of a mature, foetal human being. Between the human foetus on the eve of birth and the human infant 24 hours later, there is no significant moral difference. In passing Clause 246, we chose to breathe down the neck of legitimising early infanticide.
The fact that the clause leaves in place a general prohibition of abortion after 24 weeks makes no difference. In declaring that the killing is no crime, we declare that it does not matter. The killing does not matter only because what is being killed does not matter. What applies to the mature foetus applies equally to the early infant.
Our failure to assess that significant implication is highly regrettable, and that is why I support the amendment.
Baroness Deech (CB)
My Lords, I have great respect for the views of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan. We understand where she is coming from. But, as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said, this has been democratically passed by both Houses. The very graphic descriptions of the physical aspects of abortion are intended to put us off, but those aspects apply to any abortion. Any abortion at any stage could go wrong and result in something very upsetting.
There is an assumption on the part of those who oppose this new law that desperate women will be reading the law in all its detail before they resort to what they do. I suggest that a woman in the very late stage of pregnancy, who has probably been abandoned by the man responsible for it and who has no support, is unlikely to take down the statute book and study what the consequences are. All this new clause does is remove the criminal element. It does not make anything better or worse. It just stops desperate, unsupported women going to prison.
Finally, as I always say in debates about abortion, it is all very well expressing great sympathy, but who is there when the poor woman on her own has to go home with a baby whom she cannot support? She is abandoned and unable to look after it. None of us here is going to volunteer to help her. We have to have compassion for a woman who is in that desperate a state.
Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)
My Lords, I should have preferred that this particular clause had not been passed, but it was passed and we have to accept it. Following on very closely from what the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has said, in my view it is time we moved on.
Lord Farmer (Con)
My Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Pannick. We did not debate an impact assessment. We need a proper government impact assessment for this clause before it is made law. There are foreseeable consequences to taking down important guardrails within our abortion law for the sake of a relatively small number of people—
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, will the noble Lord kindly give way?
Lord Farmer (Con)
I would prefer to get a move on so that everybody is happy that this comes to an end. Have we forgotten that hard cases make bad law and public policy should be a consideration? Knowing that she aborted a perfectly viable baby can haunt a woman for years. Even if we start and end with an individual woman, enabling her to procure her own abortion at an extremely vulnerable point in her life—the amendment points to vulnerability—without committing a crime creates a moral hazard.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord did not give way, because I wanted to ask him this question. In his first sentence, he managed to speak to the amendment before us. He then went off on a tangent. In relation to impact assessment, has he, like me and many others, received hundreds of emails with countless papers and briefings about the implications of this clause? Did he observe the Second Reading debate in your Lordship’s House, as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick said, and the extensive debates in Committee and on Report? The issue is whether the House has had sufficient information on which to make a judgment. My argument is that we have. We have made a judgment. This is totally unnecessary. We should move on and invite the Front Benches to now wind up.
Lord Farmer (Con)
I am addressing the point of impact assessment, which had not been properly debated.
Baroness Doocey (LD)
My Lords, this Bill attempted to canter through some profoundly important issues, such as child sexual abuse, which the police have described to me as a “tsunami” and which I do not think is fully understood by most people, including some politicians. The other issue that is misunderstood is the rampaging impact of AI on our daily life. Both issues deserve a Bill on their own. But during the long hours of debate, we were constantly racing the clock. Starting debates at 3 pm, or later, and finishing them at midnight is not a way to make good legislation. If we are serious about effective scrutiny, we must modernise the sitting hours of this House as a matter of urgency. If scrutiny is to be meaningful, there needs to be more scope for the Government Front Bench to agree perfectly rational, sane and good ideas that have been suggested by amendments right the way across the House.
Nevertheless, I would like to thank the Ministers: the ever charming and affable noble Lord, Lord Hanson, who protected the Government with the tenacity that a lion would use to protect his cubs, ably supported by the noble Lord, Lord Katz, and the brilliant forensic skill of the noble Baroness, Lady Levitt, whose ability to demolish, as I know from personal experience, a carefully crafted speech in one sentence but always with charm and a disarming smile made me think, “If only she was on our side instead of the Government’s”.
I also thank noble Lords across the House, with special thanks to the Conservative Front Bench, who have been a joy to work with. I also thank my wonderful Bill team, in particular my noble friends Lady Brinton, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Marks on the Front Bench, and Elizabeth Plummer from our Whips’ Office, whose tireless and excellent support on legislation has kept us firmly on track at all times. Finally, my heartfelt thanks go to Barbara Davidson, my researcher, who is one of the most hard-working, efficient and effective people I have ever had the privilege to work with.
Lord Davies of Gower (Con)
My Lords, this has been an incredibly long time coming. This Bill has endured 15 days in Committee and six days on Report in your Lordships’ House. It has been a mammoth of a task, but throughout the Bill’s passage, I am pleased to say that we have executed our duties in this House as diligently as ever.
To address the regret amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, my noble friend Lord Cameron of Lochiel set out our concerns about the lack of scrutiny of the abortion clause both in Committee and on Report. Our view remains the same: that such a significant change of abortion law should not have been rushed through Parliament, tacked on to a completely unrelated Bill. However, the House has now decided the matter and, as always, we respect that.
I said at Second Reading and again in Committee that I do not believe that a 500-page Crime and Policing Bill is going to bring down crime rates. We have an enormous amount of criminal law. The problem is that much of it is not effectively enforced.
Having said that, there are elements of this Bill that we are happy to see being sent to the other place. The Minister knows the parts of the Bill that I support; indeed, there have been several occasions on which he and I have been on the same page. There are some very good amendments that we passed on Report. I am pleased that the House supported my amendments to allow the police to seize vehicles using fly-tipping offences and to endorse the driving licences of fly-tippers with three penalty points. I am grateful to the Liberal Democrats and a number of non-affiliated and Cross-Bench noble Lords for supporting my amendment to increase the maximum sentence for the possession of a bladed article with intent to commit violence from four to 10 years and to force the Government to review the proscription of the IRGC. It is excellent that my noble friends Lord Young of Acton, Lady Buscombe, Lady Owen of Alderley Edge and Lady Bertin had the support of the House for their amendments as well.
I must, however, express my regret at a number of provisions that have ended up in the Bill. Clause 49, which makes low-value shoplifting triable either way, makes absolutely no sense to me. Clause 251, which gives foreign courts greater powers over the extradition of British citizens, is also undesirable. It is highly regrettable that the Government have inserted Clause 144, on aggravated offences. That clause is completely unnecessary, given Section 66 of the Sentencing Code and the raft of aggravated offences and hate crime legislation that already exists. It will only cause more problems for the police and is not going to contribute to the end of identity politics and a move towards greater social cohesion. When the inevitable happens and more people are arrested for speech offences, let it be known that the Conservatives warned the Government and tried to vote that down.
I am also deeply concerned that the Government’s amendment to grant themselves the mother of all Henry VIII powers passed. The Division was held outrageously late, which is not appropriate given the wide-ranging constitutional implications. Ministers will now be able to amend the entire Online Safety Act 2023 as they wish, and parliamentarians will have no say. This is not the way to regulate for AI chatbots. We should all be deeply troubled by this.
To end on a more positive note, I thank the Minister, genuinely, for engaging with me and with my noble friends Lord Cameron of Lochiel and Lord Sandhurst throughout the passage of the Bill. I am also very grateful to his officials and the Bill team for keeping us up to date with the government amendments. I thank all those in the Government Whips’ Office and in our Whips’ Office for their help, in particular Jamie Tucker in the Opposition Whips’ Office for shouldering most of the heavy lifting on this. And I thank the Lib Dem Front Bench for their co-operation on the Bill.
I sincerely hope that the Government will do some serious thinking over the Recess and take on board the suggestions from noble Lords in this place. When we come back to this Bill for consideration of the Commons amendments, I hope the Minister will be in a conciliatory mood.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
My Lords, we are almost there. I want to respond to the amendment to the Motion in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan. She had the support of the noble Lords, Lord Biggar and Lord Farmer, and the noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, on that. The noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, mentioned the Labour Party. There are Members on my side of the House who voted on both sides of the abortion debate. It is not a party-political issue. It was a free vote on this issue, certainly from the Government’s perspective and, I think, that of all parties. I reiterate that the Government were entirely neutral on the proposal that was put in Committee and later on Report that now forms Clauses 246 and 247. It is an entirely neutral government position.
I note the comments of the three noble Lords who spoke in support of the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan. I also note those of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and I echo what they said in an entirely neutral way. We have to respect the fact that the House of Commons passed that proposal quite considerably and that after many hours of debate this House came to the same conclusion. The Government remain neutral, but that is the position.
We are now looking at the implications of that. The Government have always said that should Parliament pass any abortion amendments, they will ensure the safe and effective implementation of those provisions. This includes any costs associated with the implementation of this provision and this Bill. There are existing processes in the spending review and in future spending reviews to identify funding and around implementation. The Government remain neutral, but I have to say to all Members of the House that both Houses have spoken and that is the position that we find ourselves in today.
Whatever noble Lords’ personal views on the provisions in Part 16, we should not set aside the other parts of the Bill. There are a number of areas of agreement between all sides of the House. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, that three amendments were accepted by the Government on Report. We will look at some of the amendments that this House passed and their implications when the Bill returns to the House of Commons after the Recess.
At the end of the day, I am proud of this Bill. I am proud of its position to protect children from sexual abuse. I am proud of the action we have taken on online harm. I am proud of the action on preventing violence against women and girls. I am proud of the action on young men and knife crime. I am particularly proud of the long campaign that my union raised on shop workers and assaults. I am proud of the issues on communities and anti-social behaviour. I am proud of this Bill, and for that reason I commend that this Bill do now pass. With due respect—I spoke to the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, today, and I understand where she is coming from—I ask the noble Baroness not to press her amendment. If she does, I am proud of this Bill as it stands. I am neutral on the issue of abortion on behalf of the Government, but I ask this House to pass the Bill.
Baroness O’Loan (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his comments and for speaking to me earlier today. He talked about the cost implications of the Bill, and there are many, but I am not sure that anybody knows what the cost implications of Clause 246 might be. Be that as it may, my amendment to the Motion was to draw to the attention of the House the fact that things need to be done to let people carry out the jobs for which they are responsible and to help women in this most desperate situation. I do not intend to move the amendment to a vote. I thank those who spoke. We deliberately decided that we would not ask a lot of people to speak and that we would ask people not to speak so as not to delay the House in its other deliberations. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.