Thames, Yorkshire and Northumbrian Water: Ofwat Proposed Fines

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Lords Chamber

Question

15:06

Asked by

[Lord Sikka]

To ask His Majesty’s Government how many of the £168 million fines proposed by Ofwat on 6 August 2024 against Thames Water, Yorkshire Water, and Northumbrian Water have been collected.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)]

My Lords, it is important to make clear when answering this Question that we are talking about proposed fines, and legislation specifies the process that Ofwat must follow before it can impose the fines or an enforcement order. Ofwat has the option of accepting regulatory settlement in lieu of imposing an enforcement order and/or fine. If Ofwat decides to impose a fine, it will issue a notice to the company specifying the date of payment. This must be after 42 days from the date that notice is served on the company.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. We seem now to have a category of fines which are not really fines. A £168 million fine for past sewage dumping was announced nearly six months ago but has still not been agreed and collected. The normal practice is that habitual criminals are not permitted to negotiate the extent and timing of fines with judges or anybody else. These three water companies between them have over 400 criminal convictions, but they are being allowed to negotiate the amount and timing of their fines. Why does the Minister think that this is a good and moral practice?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

It is important to be clear that Ofwat has to act within existing legislation. It is also important to point out that the Government are absolutely clear in wanting to clean up the water industry, which is why we have set up the commission. Since 2015, the Environment Agency has concluded 66 prosecutions against water companies, which has secured record fines of over £150 million. Meanwhile, in the last five years, Ofwat has secured a total of around £38 million in rebates to customers, in addition to another £150 million in other undertakings, as a result of its enforcement action.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that a number of applications were attracted for the Water Restoration Fund, including by a number of farmers from Yorkshire, in July last year, since when they have heard nothing. When does the noble Baroness think these applications will be successful?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Defra is evaluating how water company fines and penalties can best be reinvested into improvements to the water environment, which includes looking at the Water Restoration Fund. We hope to make a final decision on that some time this year.

[Lord Tyrie (Non-Afl)]

By any standards, Ofwat’s performance has been shocking, and over a good number of years—in fact, the worst regulatory failure we have had since the regulators who supervised banking throughout the banking crisis. Jon Cunliffe was asked to investigate this last October, and we are told that he will take at least a year to report, but he has only just started to take evidence. Can we at least have an interim report to get some early progress on reform of the water industry and better performance out of Ofwat?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The advisory board that is going to be working with Sir Jon Cunliffe has been appointed and set up, and my understanding is that the intention is that there will be a first report in the spring of this year.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

In December 2024, Ofwat announced that it would fine Thames Water £18 million for paying unjustified dividends of nearly £38 million; that has now risen to £158 million, according to Ofwat. Can the Minister explain whether the penalty is being enforced and how much of the fine has actually been paid? Does she agree that this is indeed the unacceptable face of capitalism?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

On 19 December last year, Ofwat published its consultation notice, which set out the provisional decision to impose the financial penalty on Thames Water, as my noble friend laid out. As I explained earlier, there is a legal process that Ofwat has to go through. That consultation closed on 16 January—so, very recently—and Ofwat is now looking at those responses.

[The Earl of Effingham (Con)]

My Lords, at Report stage of the Water (Special Measures) Bill, my noble friend Lord Cromwell successfully secured the overwhelming support of your Lordships’ House for his amendment on financial reporting by water companies. Given that many water companies are overleveraged, it is crucial that we have a laser focus on managing debt in the water sector, and the Government have indeed recognised the importance of water companies’ financial resilience. Can the Minister therefore please explain why the Government have removed my noble friend’s amendment from the Bill in the other place?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The noble Earl is correct that tackling financial leverage and debt in water companies is important, and it is a priority for this Government. We are currently in discussions with the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, regarding his amendment.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, the annual water bill is about £473, although some people, especially in households with disabled people, may pay £700 a year, so support and help for those families is really important. What can Ofwat and the Government do together to provide major support—not just social tariffs, but other major help—for families such as those in paying for the essential service these water companies provide?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Clearly, it is really important that we support all vulnerable customers regarding their bills and their ability to pay them. During the passage of the Water (Special Measures) Bill in the other place, the Government passed an amendment on how we need to support vulnerable customers. That will of course come back, and I will be talking about that when we get to ping-pong next week.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, I greatly respect the Minister, but I just wondered whether she would consider replacing the leaders of the water companies.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, that needs to be part of the review that Jon Cunliffe is undertaking with the water companies. One of the purposes of that commission is to see if the way the water companies are operating and are regulated is fit for purpose.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, during the passage of the Water (Special Measures) Bill, the Secretary of State said that the Government will ban bonuses if company executives fail to meet high standards. Good. Last week, Thames Water said that it will circumvent any such ban by increasing basic executive pay. Speaking as a Thames Water customer, I ask my noble friend: what is the Government’s response to that, and how do we imagine the ban can be enforced?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The Government have been clear that we urgently need to restore public trust in the water sector, and the bonuses issue is an important part of that. We have been completely clear that, where company performance is poor, executives should not be receiving large bonuses, which is why we are giving Ofwat the power to prohibit bonuses where performance is poor. Like my noble friend and other noble Lords, I have read the reports that Thames Water is saying that it would put up executive pay if this came to pass. We are bitterly disappointed that a water company would react like that. It should be taking responsibility for its behaviour and the standard it sets, so we will be taking this extremely seriously and looking at how we can manage such situations.

[Lord Cromwell (CB)]

My Lords, I am even gladder than usual that I came in, only to find my previous amendment being debated without any advance notice to me. I say to those who have raised it that I am in fruitful discussions with the Minister, but I am certainly not ruling out bringing that amendment back again, when the House will have its chance to express its views.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that clarification.

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con)]

Is the Minster aware that limited liability is a privilege, not a right? If the ordinary shareholders of the water companies are choosing to overleverage the companies with a view to making a profit out of their ordinary shares, because interest is deductible and dividends are not, would it not be a good idea to consider whether limited liability is the right form for shareholders of these companies?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

There are some good points being made around the financial management of water companies at the moment, and I hope that, as we get further into the commission being led by Sir Jon Cunliffe, we can really dig down into this area. The fact that he was part of the Bank of England should help in looking at how we tackle these financial mismanagements.