Westminster Hall
Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
National Grid: Pylons
Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered pylons and upgrades to the national grid.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for awarding this debate on the great grid upgrade.
To begin, it is a busy day in politics, as we know, so a number of colleagues have asked me to mention their work for them and to share the concerns that many of us have about the approach that National Grid is taking and about proposals, unnecessary in many cases, to cover the landscape of some of the most beautiful parts of the country in pylons, which will cause permanent damage to the local economy and landscape. Specifically, my neighbour, my right hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), my right hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), and my hon. Friends the Members for Waveney (Peter Aldous), for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson), for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) and for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) have all done huge amounts of work. Without wishing to put words in their mouth, all share at least some of the concerns that I will mention.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for being present to respond on behalf of the Government, but I hope that he will take our concerns back to the policy Minister, the Minister for Energy Security and Net Zero, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson). I am sure that the Minister will be grateful for another meeting with our group on this important matter.
My constituents are angry with National Grid and at the proposals to rewire the national grid in such a way as to use Lincolnshire as, frankly, a dumping ground for infrastructure that could be done better and differently. The proposal for a line from Grimsby to Walpole is to have pylons across the country for many tens of kilometres, rather than having it underground or, even better, offshore. The proposal is unwelcome enough in itself, but National Grid tells us that constraints Government have put on it mean it is required to use pylons, rather than underground or offshore. National Grid also says, however, that the new eastern green link is only viable when it is largely offshore.
What angers my constituents about the proposal, and angers many of the constituents represented by colleagues present in the Chamber, is not simply a desire to see the local economy and the local landscape preserved from the blight of pylons; it is an anger at what feels like an incoherent strategy by National Grid. That is within a framework set by Government, which is why I am grateful that we have the Minister here to talk about it from a Government perspective.
We should also acknowledge that the way in which National Grid has behaved has not delivered the kind of transparency to make constituents feel that this is a meaningful consultation on proposals that will not be temporary, although pylons are nominally temporary. The pylons will be with us for many years to come, and they will cost many millions of pounds, from an approach that I believe is fundamentally short-sighted.
The longer-term view of that very necessary rewiring of the national grid will not benefit from an approach that does not take into consideration what we are seeking to achieve with projects such as Grimsby to Walpole and many others, and projects such as the eastern green link bringing power down from Scotland to the south and the east midlands. We should be seeking a more coherent approach that looks at what rewiring the grid successfully for the long term will deliver.
In my conversations with National Grid about whether we use direct current or alternating current, pylons, or offshore or onshore, what is clear is that it has a legitimate desire—proposed by and originating from Government—to get this done quickly. That is the right thing to do, given that we see the grid coming under very different strains from those for which it was designed. Now, rather than bringing power out from a spine down the middle of the country, we are bringing power in from offshore. That requires a different approach, but the different approach is so fundamental that surely we cannot do it in this piecemeal way that involves a number of multibillion-pound schemes that, where they have been reviewed, for instance in Essex—I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) will talk about this as well—it has been decided that they could be done better and more coherently.
I have spoken to many hundreds of my constituents in public meetings, in email and on social media over many months, and their anger is not simply about the desire to talk about the landscape. It is about the desire to see proper use of taxpayers’ money, and that should always be our top priority.
I want to talk about three of the key issues that my constituents raise above all else. Primarily, this is about food security. Lincolnshire is one of the most productive parts of our agricultural economy. Whether we are talking about the blight of pylons or the blight of underground cabling, which should be taken much more seriously, it is vital that we consider how much land will be taken out of production by the proposals. There is the pretence that underground cabling can be remediated and then we can go back to fully productive land, but that is a project for a number of years and the land is never, as any farmer will tell us, quite the same again. That is why we come back to an offshore approach being our first choice, but food security is a vital issue either way.
Constituents are deeply concerned in an area where the two industries that matter most are first agriculture, and second tourism. We know that many businesses have built their entire livelihoods, and have bolstered the local economy by providing jobs, in areas that, although they may not technically be designated as areas of outstanding natural beauty and so on, are ones where that economy is built on the landscape in which people come and stay on holiday, in which people come and spend wonderful months of the year.
The approach that National Grid is taking, set by Government, does not consider food security in that way. It does not consider the economic impact of what is being proposed. Thirdly, as I said at the beginning, it does not consider what we could do if we began not with a blank piece of paper but with a coherent approach that asks, “What are we seeking to achieve?”, with a number of different projects.
The reason why we have a good number of people in Westminster Hall today for an election day debate, and several people saying that they would like to be here as well, is that there is real evidence up and down the country that National Grid is not delivering the strategic approach that it should be and it is not being tasked by Government to consider all the most important issues. Those are food security, economic impact and the coherent strategy that we all need to see. It is no wonder that constituents are angry when they see food security ignored, economic impact ignored and value for taxpayer money ignored.
We can see that there are other approaches. Whether we are talking about, as I mentioned earlier, an approach that uses DC cabling rather than something else, which has been found in some situations to be cheaper, or whatever, we should be looking at all the options in pursuit of a coherent approach that is value for money for taxpayers.
I want to end with two final points. The first is that National Grid has been holding a number of consultations across Lincolnshire on the Grimsby to Walpole project—it has been holding consultations across the country on its other projects—and one of the things that it asks is, “How can we mitigate the impact of pylons?” I have not yet met a single constituent who has said to me, “I don’t like these 50-metre pylons, but I would be okay with a 40-metre one.” That is not meaningful mitigation, and I think it is disingenuous to pretend that the project, in its current terms, would not have a huge impact. I ask the Government to consider whether that approach has been coherent and consistent, and whether there is a case for pausing the current set of conflicting projects and looking again at how we can make them work in a way that is better value for taxpayers and better for the grid in the long term. That is my ask.
It would be reprehensible of me not to point out that the Labour approach is explicitly pro-pylons. The shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) has said that pylons are the future. If we wanted a demonstration of how little Labour understands rural Britain and the needs of the future of the electricity grid, there we have it.
Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
On that point, the hon. Gentleman may want to note that the Welsh Labour Government have opened a review and are instructing an independent advisory body to look into the potential of underground cabling. I gently point out to the hon. Gentleman that we have a far more comprehensive view of issues on this side and he might like to acknowledge that.
Matt Warman
That could be the first occasion when a Conservative is being asked to refer positively to Labour-run Wales. On this occasion, however, I am delighted to do so. I would certainly welcome at the very least a review of the process and a review of Labour policy, which is, as I have said, explicitly pro-pylons. Perhaps we can have unanimity across the House that we should look again at whether pylons are the right way forward and the possible role of underground cabling. I should add that that is a rare endorsement—if an endorsement at all—of Labour-run Wales.
To conclude, I simply say this: my constituents are angry. I have never had more emails or more packed public meetings on any other issue. They do not deny that there is a real need to upgrade the grid for the future, but they want to see value for money for taxpayers, landscapes not unnecessarily blighted and an approach that acknowledges that the economic impact and the impact on food security should be the Government’s coherent and top priority.
Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate, the subject of which is of huge concern to many constituents across the whole of eastern England, including East Anglia. Does he share my concern that if National Grid is to bring our constituents with it, it should be clear, open and transparent? I have had an instance in my constituency where National Grid brought a presentation to a village hall suggesting that a certain route was a fait accompli when it plainly was not. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need more clarity and more transparency?
Matt Warman
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend that we need more clarity and transparency from National Grid. It is right that too many of my constituents and, by the sounds of it, my hon. Friend’s constituents feel that this is a fait accompli. The consultations are supposed to be meaningful if they are to preserve any kind of democratic consent, and we all need to encourage National Grid to deliver that kind of transparency, in particular on the costings of the different options. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.
To conclude, I want simply to reiterate my previous point: we should think about food security, economic impact and what is best for the taxpayer when it comes to a necessary rewiring of the grid. I implore the Minister to take the message back loud and clear to the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, the right hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), because that is what is in the interest of the constituents of all hon. Members here today.
Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)
Due to the number of speakers, I will have to reduce the limit for speeches to four and a half minutes. If hon. Members wish to be called in the debate, I remind them that they should bob, which they are doing. Also, as my hearing is not brilliant, please can hon. Members face the front and not turn to other hon. Members when they respond?
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
Thank you for calling me to speak, Mrs Latham.
The demand for electricity is expected to grow so much that by 2050 we could be using twice or nearly three times as much electricity as we use today. More and more of our energy is now generated by offshore wind farms and solar, which means that significant new infrastructure is required to connect the vast amount of cleaner energy from where it is generated to homes and businesses across the country. We have ambitious targets for more offshore wind development in the coming decades, but the grid is simply not ready for it.
National Grid has recognised the urgent need for investment, but its great grid upgrade must also confront the challenge of safeguarding our natural environment and consider the views of local people. The recently published UK Government state of nature report confirmed catastrophic landscape degradation and loss of wildlife. Britain is now acknowledged to be the most nature-depleted country in Europe and one of the most damaged in the world, so it is imperative that alongside the modernisation of our national grid, we prioritise the protection and preservation of our natural surroundings and indeed the amenities of our local communities. It is also vital that new energy initiatives bring tangible benefits to the communities in which they are located.
Since 2013, National Grid has had the benefit of strategic landscape guidance from an independent panel of national stakeholders selected by the regulator, Ofgem. The independent chair of that panel throughout the time since then has been Professor Chris Baines, whom I have met on a number of occasions. His views are really inspirational. His visual impact programme emphasised the importance of reducing the visual impact of overhead power lines in some of the most sensitive landscapes across England and Wales. Through a process of close consultation with communities, technical experts and special interest groups, National Grid and its contractors have successfully carried out major landscape engineering work and landscape restoration in several highly protected and varied landscapes. However, that is not the case throughout England and Wales, which is what we really need to point out here today. There is advice and there are protections, but even though the national grid needs to be expanded rapidly, National Grid should listen to experts such as Professor Baines.
Since I do not have much time left, I will also express my concerns about what National Grid is saying about the costs of onshore and onshore connections. I will share some of the thoughts of another group I have met: Suffolk Energy Action Solutions. In its paper, “Britain's Winning Solution”, it presents the idea that an offshore grid could pool energy offshore and use subsea cables to transport energy closer to demand, coming onshore at brownfield sites that can become energy superhubs. The group says that this plan would eventually negate the need for 50% of onshore infrastructure, namely the substations and interconnectors that criss-cross the country.
Carrying energy closer to demand would also help to mitigate the significant costs associated with network capacity issues. The cost to consumers, which has already been mentioned in this debate, from wind power oversupply and the need for curtailment payments was estimated to be £806 million in 2020, and National Grid expects that figure to increase to £2.5 billion per annum by 2025.
This type of offshore solution has already worked abroad, with Belgium and Denmark building more of their transmission network infrastructure offshore by creating offshore hubs and taking cabling onshore at brownfield sites. The UK should at least consider this option. National Grid claims that it would be more expensive, which might be true in the short term, but we must consider that this integrated approach to connecting offshore projects would significantly reduce the physical infrastructure needed to connect offshore wind farms to the grid.
Also, in our transition to net zero, it is vital that we take people with us. If we continue the confrontational approach that we have heard about, we will not get to net zero in 2050. We will not achieve that target if we alienate our communities. I urge the Government to look very carefully at the solutions that I have outlined and I also urge National Grid to listen very carefully to what has been said in this debate today.
Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve in this debate under you, Mrs Latham. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing it and the Backbench Business Committee on granting it. Given the number of speakers that we have here in Westminster Hall compared with the number of speakers for the business in the main Chamber today, I wish we were in the main Chamber. However, we have to make the most of the opportunity that we have.
The Minister here today heard a 35-minute speech from me on 19 March, and although I appreciate that he is not the policy Minister, being a Government Whip is really important. In many ways, Whips can reflect the views and feelings of the House on critical issues such as the one we are debating today, and I know that he is very astute at doing that.
It is vital that we have a reliable grid, given the amount of renewable energy that this Conservative Government have the ambition and plans to deliver. Whether it is wind, interconnectors or solar, infrastructure needs to be in the right place, and not necessarily just where it is cheapest for the developer. Ofgem and others have a role in terms of energy bills, but we are talking about long-term infrastructure, so a sensible approach that ensures that it is fit for purpose is vital. As far as I am concerned, infrastructure needs to be closer to where the demand will be.
Sizewell C’s construction is already starting, so this is not a case of “not in my back yard.” In fact, there is already plenty of energy in my part of the world, including from wind farms and similar things. The problem is that, given the amount of infrastructure that will be required, we are talking about going on to greenfield sites, and complicated areas of cabling. I admit that no new pylons are currently planned in my constituency, but I know that colleagues such as my hon. Friends the Members for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) and for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) have been working hard on the issue for their constituents.
If we were to update the technology, we could reduce the infrastructure, as the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) mentioned. Suffolk Energy Action Solutions and Saxmundham Against Needless Destruction, the groups involved in Friston and the surrounding areas, have done extensive research, including on what we could do about high-voltage direct current and the offshore platforms, which is what the Belgians and Dutch do. The offshore coordination support scheme should not go ahead with that plan. The reason I say that is that I do not believe that Sea Link will be needed if we ensure that the connections go into established brownfield sites—the Isle of Grain, potentially Tilbury and potentially even Bradwell. My right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) hopes to get a nuclear power station at Bradwell with other technology in the near future, so it has already been designated and set aside for that sort of connection. If we were to innovate and use more recent technology than what has been costed so far, we would come up with a much smarter proposal that reflected the concerns of our constituents. That is why I now want a moratorium on any new connections until we have the strategic spatial plan, which is due next year. That should also have security considerations added to it.
We must also have full transparency, including the publication by the national energy system operator of its assessments and independent reviews, with comparisons with current plans. We should recognise that the economics are such that, at the moment, the sums seem only to include the development; they do not include the Government actually paying people not to put electricity into the network. When we combine that with our starting to get more high-voltage DC—not AC—onshore through the cabling, we come up with a cost-neutral proposal.
The proposed increase in pylons does not directly affect my constituency, because we already have them, but we do not need the level of infrastructure that we once did. That is a 20th-century approach to a 21st-century issue. That is why I want to ensure that the residents of Friston and elsewhere are listened to.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mrs Latham. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing the debate. He has succeeded where I failed, but I am grateful to be able to contribute to the debate, which he led so ably.
There is no time to fall into poetic prose to describe the beauty of my constituency, but it is known as the garden of Wales—the Minister will just have to take my word for how beautiful Carmarthenshire is. I accept climate change realities, I accept the need to increase energy security, I accept the need to improve electricity distribution in our communities, especially in rural areas, and I accept the findings of the Winser report: that we are going to need a whole lot of new infrastructure to meet those challenges. I am not coming from a position of political denial.
I am facing huge upheaval in my constituency, however, because there are now four distribution and transmission routes being proposed for Carmarthenshire. In Roman times, all roads led to Rome; in west Wales, all pylons lead to Llandyfaelog, where new national grid infra- structure is being built. That is in the south of my constituency, which will be joining the new Llanelli constituency following the boundary review. That is a planning matter for Carmarthenshire County Council. All those councillors waving placards against pylon development in Carmarthenshire at the moment must use their leverage during the planning process to try and secure some of the objectives we have in mind. If they just bend the knee during the planning process, I am afraid that the backlash in the wards of Carmarthenshire will be strong. I echo the comments from the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness on the anger in our communities at the proposals.
The lines that I face are: the 132 kV Green GEN Cymru route along the Towy valley, linking an energy generation site in Powys down to southern Carmarthenshire; another Green GEN route originating in Ceredigion, going through Teifi valley and down to southern Carmarthenshire; a 132 kV National Grid Electricity Distribution proposed route along the Cothi valley; and a 400 kV National Grid route linking north and south Wales.
National Grid Electricity Distribution is the recognised distribution network operator for my part of the world. However, Green GEN Cymru is in the final stages of a licence application with Ofgem to become an independent distribution network operator. When I met the umbrella organisation for the IDNOs about a year ago and explained what Green GEN Cymru were proposing, they thought I was mad. The reality is that Ofgem are on the verge of approving an application licence for Green GEN Cymru, and there is huge concern locally about the whole process. There has been a lack of engagement by Ofgem. It is something that we are really going to have to look at. I have had no opportunity to express my concerns to Ofgem in a face-to-face meeting.
The 132 kV lines now come under Welsh Government responsibility. They used to be the responsibility of the UK Government. I had an experience with a previous line 12 years ago, which was dealt with by the UK National Infrastructure Commission. The route was undergrounded along the floor of the Towy valley following that process. I am glad that the Welsh Government are undertaking a study into new techniques, and into cable ploughing in particular.
The argument for pylons is that undergrounding is far more expensive, but the new cable ploughing technology is extremely impressive. It can be used to plough about a kilometre of line a day, and it is far cheaper than traditional undergrounding. The undergrounding analysis is based on a Parsons Brinckerhoff and Institute of Engineering and Technology report that was completed in 2012. The technology is there. I should say that the largest company in Europe happens to be based in my constituency, in Pencader.
I am asking UK Government Ministers to engage with the work of the Welsh Government and ensure that the Welsh Government have the resources to undertake that work. It could solve a lot of problems for the UK Government in the future.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) and the Backbench Business Committee for enabling this debate.
I am speaking in this important debate to give a voice to many of my Ynys Môn constituents, such as Jonathan Dean, who are concerned about the impact of pylons on Ynys Môn and the Welsh countryside. They are also concerned about the impact on two of our most important sectors: agriculture and food security, and tourism. It is important that the planning process takes into account the impact of infrastructure on the environment and the unique characteristics and vistas of Wales. It is important we have a plan, that we have joined-up thinking, and that we have transparency.
It will come as no surprise that I rise to speak to the challenge of our future energy supply. After all, Ynys Môn, Môn Mam Cymru—the mother of Wales—is an energy island ready and waiting to be powered back to life. We have wind, wave, tidal, solar, hydrogen and nuclear projects. We have £4.8m from the UK Government for the Holyhead hydrogen hub. Morlais, the wave project, has benefited from the UK Government ringfencing marine energy in the contract for differences allocation round. Ynys Môn’s potential to supply cheap, clean power to cut household bills and strengthen our energy security is being held up by slow upgrades to the national grid.
There are enough low-carbon energy projects planned, such as the Wylfa nuclear site, to meet peak electricity demand nine times over. However, the grid is not being built and reinforced fast enough for developers to connect to it. Some projects are having to wait until 2038 to connect to the system, despite being ready to go.
Wera Hobhouse
Does the hon. Lady acknowledge that, really, this means that developers will go away from the UK and invest in other countries? That is a big concern for investment in renewables in the UK.
Virginia Crosbie
I absolutely welcome that debate and how important it is to have developers investing in this sector. I also welcome the action that the Government are taking. Last year’s connections action plan will cut the time that it takes for low-carbon projects to connect to the electricity grid. The Chancellor also announced plans for a strategic spatial energy plan in the autumn statement to set out what energy infrastructure needs to be built, where and when.
Closer to home, I am proud that this Conservative Government grasped the nettle and committed £160 million, through Great British Nuclear, to secure the Wylfa site on Ynys Môn. If successful, that project could create 9,000 construction jobs and 900 long-term jobs, and provide a source of clean, reliable energy for decades to come.
I urge the Minister to finalise the new national policy statement for nuclear to speed up the approval process and announce the outcome of the small modular reactor competition as soon as possible. SMRs have the potential to cut the costs of nuclear, diversify our energy mix and generate steady, clean power. We must not let this opportunity pass us by.
It is also thanks to this Conservative Government’s leadership that we have seen the creation of the new £26 million Anglesey freeport. With spades in the ground at Prosperity Park, the Anglesey freeport is expected to create 13,000 new jobs and generate £1 billion of investment across the island and north Wales. Celtic freeport in south Wales and Teesside freeport show the potential of freeports to boost our manufacturing base for new renewable technologies. Last year, we saw the power of this net zero economy, with £74 billion in gross value added to the economy as a whole and more than 765,000 people employed. The people of Anglesey are ready and waiting to play their part.
Building on that model, I would like to see the Government target a new wave of business rates reliefs at areas with low-carbon industries that need to invest in skills training. That could create thriving enterprise hubs across the country like the one at Menai Science Park—M-SParc—and unleash a new generation of skilled workers ready to power Britain.
But, of course, our new power generators and the jobs that they bring with them will be rendered redundant if we do not have the grid connections in place to put them to use. Where new transmission lines are needed to deliver the wind power of the Irish sea, or Ynys Môn’s new nuclear site at Wylfa, it is important that developers engage with local communities and ensure that they are properly compensated for the disruption that the construction will cause. To achieve that, the Government should extend and mandate community benefits for transmission and generation.
Last year, the Chancellor committed to giving communities that host transmission infrastructure discounts on their electricity bills of up to £10,000. That package also included extra benefits that could be transformational for some communities, with schools and village halls refurbished, educational bursaries created and improvements made to local healthcare provision. That is a sound investment for developers and bill payers alike. By building out the grid, we can make the whole system more efficient and reduce the waste of constraint payments, in which renewable generators are paid to switch off when the system cannot cope. That could save a staggering £1 billion a year and help in the push to decarbonise our electricity supply by 2035.
By increasing the capacity of the national grid in a way that takes into account the beauty of our countryside —especially of places such as Ynys Môn—we can realise Ynys Môn’s promise as the mother of Wales, supplying clean, home-grown power to our United Kingdom. I now call on the Government to give us the tools that we need to do the job.
Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing this debate. We on the Labour Benches certainly want to see an effective and speedy transition to renewables so that we can slash energy bills, cut emissions and make progress on the way to net zero—which is so vital to stem global warming—and, of course, increase our energy security by not being reliant on imported gas.
We in Wales have fantastic resources, be that for onshore and offshore wind, rooftop solar or a range of marine technologies, and we want to see them used. It was very disappointing to see the UK Government’s failure last year to get any bids for offshore wind because they failed to listen to the industry. As has been noted by Welsh Government Ministers and hon. Members on the Welsh Affairs Committee, significant investment is needed in the national grid infrastructure to get the electricity from where it is generated to the areas of dense population and industry.
There is huge concern that enormous pylon projects will spoil areas of considerable natural beauty and take up space on agricultural land. As the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) mentioned, the Towy valley is a prime site currently under consideration for routes for grid projects, and we are very keen to see underground cabling considered. As he said, part of the area will be coming into the Llanelli constituency after the boundary changes.
Undergrounding is perfectly possible, whether for big projects such as the gas pipe coming across west Wales, or, as I have seen, the use of a mole plough that can pull a plastic water pipe across a field to protect the pipe and stop the water supply freezing. A much more sophisticated version of the plough is available that can use the same technique for underground cabling, and we want that to be considered.
I pay tribute to my Labour colleagues, Martha O’Neil in Caerfyrddin and Jackie Jones in Ceredigion, for listening to residents’ concerns about pylons and taking them up with Welsh Government Ministers. I draw attention to the fact that in ministerial answers, Welsh Government Ministers have stated a preference for underground cabling where practical.
Of course, cost is an issue, and we need much more up-to-date information. The electricity transmission costing study dates from 2012, and the “Lifetime Costs Report” by Western Power dates from 2014. It is very important, as the Institute of Engineering and Technology has done, to look at the whole picture: the operation, the maintenance and the energy losses, and things such as storm damage where overground infrastructure is much more vulnerable than underground. An awful lot more work needs to be done in that area.
I am pleased that just a fortnight ago in the Welsh Senedd, Jeremy Miles, our new Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language, explained that the Welsh Government will establish an independent advisory group on the future electricity grid for Wales. The group will seek to build an understanding of the possible approaches and alternatives to delivering electricity transmission infrastructure across Wales, including the role of pylons and underground cabling.
In conclusion, yes, we want to see a roll-out of renewables, but we want to take our communities with us, and there are ways in which we can do both. We want to ensure that we do these things in a practicable way, and that we have horses for courses in appropriate places to get the very best of our natural resources in the most compatible way with our community needs.
James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on bringing this important debate to the House. I am speaking on behalf of my North West Norfolk constituents who would be adversely affected by the Grimsby to Walpole link, and by the eastern green link proposals for two offshore projects as part of the great grid upgrade. “Great for whom?” is the question that many of my constituents have.
Under the proposals, 90 miles of a new, high-voltage electricity transmission line would be constructed along with new substations, including at Walpole in my constituency, near to the existing substation. It would consist of a 50-metre-high pylon every 300 metres or so. That is half the height of the Elizabeth Tower and getting on for the height of Ely cathedral. In addition, National Grid is consulting on two new offshore electricity infrastructure projects, eastern green links 3 and 4, which are primarily subsea links bringing electricity from Scotland to England.
As we increase generation from renewables, there needs to be investment to connect those sources to homes and businesses. The issue, though, is how we do that in a way that minimises the impact on local people, our countryside and our communities. Three options for the Grimsby to Walpole scheme were considered—two onshore and one subsea. The subsea option looked at a Norfolk or a Lincolnshire landfall. There are undoubtedly challenges about a Norfolk landfall, given the number of designated sites in my area, with fewer issues for a Lincolnshire solution. They need to be assessed carefully. However, as in other areas, the default for National Grid has been to rule out such options without proper consideration, despite the fact that pursuing them would lessen the visual impact, the environmental effect and disruption to communities. That needs to be revisited as the process continues.
Having discounted the subsea option, National Grid is proposing nearly 100 miles of new pylons. Many constituents have raised strong concerns and objections to the preferred route, including the damaging visual impact that the pylons would have on our beautiful landscapes. Much of the land on the proposed route is grade 1 arable land. When we are looking to improve food security, taking that out of use goes against the Government’s intention.
Pylons and substations cause noise and disturbance for local communities. The proposed area could also affect many protected sites, including the Wash, one of the most important sites in Europe. Indeed, the Government have applied for UNESCO world heritage status for the east Atlantic flyway for migratory birds, including through Norfolk and Lincolnshire, which would be threatened by current plans.
When I met local councillors, parish councillors and parishioners, they were concerned about the location and the impact of a new large substation. They have also asked what assessment has been made of upgrading the existing pylon infrastructure. Of course, that would need reinforcement of the pylons that are there, but that would be less intrusive and more cost-effective. Considering improvements to existing lines is a requirement of the national planning policy statement, so that also needs to be addressed ahead of the next consultation.
In contrast to the Grimsby-Walpole plan, the eastern green links are for subsea cables, with landing points on the Lincolnshire coastline. They would then run underground for 80 miles to the proposed converter stations and a new transmission station in Walpole in west Norfolk—yes, underground. If the underground cable is a preferred option for that project, why not for the transmission line scheme? What scope is there for the proposed Grimsby-Walpole link to be integrated into that? Again, that needs to be looked at further.
On consultation, eight weeks is wholly inadequate, given the amount of documentation published and the length of time that National Grid has been working on this. To be polite, there has been a lack of a co-ordinated approach, but the two schemes could work better together, so we need a much more transparent process.
There are major concerns across west Norfolk about the proposals. People are rightly opposed to the damaging impact on our communities, countryside and farmland. The plans cannot be the final answer; they must be changed.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing the debate; it was my pleasure to support him in applying for it.
I suspect that I speak largely for my friend, the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan), when I say that Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, the power company, has not covered itself in glory in the north of Scotland, or indeed, in Scotland in general. There is a feeling of hopelessness among my constituents—believe you me, it is a very hot issue. I have in my hands just some of the emails I am getting. Big, big meetings are being held in places such as Helmsdale, with 200 people turning up. That is very unusual for people who do not normally come out on a winter’s evening and are usually quite peaceable about things. So this is a bit of a mess.
When we say to SSEN, “What do you propose with this?”, it says, “Well, it’s pylons—of course it is pylons,” and they produce all their maps. We say, “What about offshore or undergrounding?”, and it says, “Actually, it’s the Government and we are going down the pylons route.” That makes us feel as though we are sleepwalking into something that we just do not want at all.
In the north of Scotland, SSEN is already going to put one subsea cable down the length of the east coast of Scotland, or much of that coast. If it is putting down one cable, why can it not simultaneously lay two more? Why does it not use one vessel to put the whole lot offshore? Again and again, when we talk about undergrounding, the response is, “Goodness me, too expensive. Dear, oh dear, oh dear.” But we know about the Welsh example and examples in other parts of the world where it is done.
As others have said, this is a strategic decision for the UK. It will be about electricity for many decades to come, so we want to get it right. It has been put to me that it is a lot easier to fix something underground. If there is a blip in an underground cable, it can be found easily, but fixing a cable on a mighty high pylon in the teeth of a highland gale is not desperately funny.
I wish that people did not feel helpless and could be taken along with the project. People are reasonable, but right now, there is a feeling of hopelessness: “We don’t like it and nobody is listening to what we say.” But there is a let-out. Planning powers are devolved to the Scottish Government. To give an example, the Scottish Government have been up front about this for a number of years and said, “If there is any proposal to have a new nuclear power station built in Scotland, we’ll call it in and refuse it under planning powers.” My point is to implore the Scottish Government to realise and understand how controversial this proposal is, and to say, “Wait a minute. Under planning powers, we’re going to call it in and we’re going to look at it.” I believe that could be done.
By curious coincidence, a debate is happening right now, simultaneously, in the Scottish Parliament—it is a complete coincidence. I hope and pray that the MSPs who speak in the debate will go for that pause. If that courageous decision were taken to pause this and say, “Hang on, can we look again at this?”, I believe that that would help our friends and colleagues in other parts of the United Kingdom. But somebody has to take the initiative on this, because otherwise we are just sleepwalking. When we do that, people lose faith, and if that happens—no matter what party we are—it is dangerous for democracy.
This is a strategic decision for the future. We must take people with us, and I take great comfort from the fact that I think we are all singing off the same sheet. I look forward with great interest to what the Minister has to say, and I also look forward with great interest to hear what the Scottish Government have to say.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
I chair a group of Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk MPs, some 15 of us, known as OffSET, the Offshore Electricity-grid Taskforce. We are campaigning for an offshore electricity transmission system in place of what National Grid now calls Norwich to Tilbury, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) referred. I also join in the congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing this debate.
We in OffSET share our objective with ESNP—Essex Suffolk Norfolk Pylons, which is the citizens’ campaign against pylons—and we are backed by a petition of 32,000 people and growing, across the three counties. We all want the same: to make the best use of wind power from the North Sea, maximising the use of green electricity in the UK at acceptable cost, by providing new capacity to get offshore wind electricity and onshore solar to consumers in London. The more we have studied the proposals, the clearer it has become that the present Norwich-to-Tilbury plan will not meet those objectives. In fact, they are against the UK national interest and should not be approved by Ofgem.
I say that with no sense of blame for anyone involved. I think that the Minister, his predecessors, DESNZ officials, National Grid Electricity Transmission, National Grid ESO—Electricity System Operator—and Ofgem are all doing their best. The very fact that we now have a concept called “holistic network design”, however, underlines the shortcomings of the piecemeal approach driven by the old regulatory regime, which has given rise to the proposal.
We are delighted that the Government initiated the offshore co-ordination support scheme to fund studies into alternatives to the original National Grid proposal. That resulted in the “ESO East Anglia Network Study”, containing an evaluation of 10 further options for amending or improving Norwich to Tilbury. The shortage of time may preclude going back to the drawing board and starting a new offshore design from scratch, but Norwich to Tilbury is already discredited, and undeliverable without substantial revision.
ESO’s modelling still finds that the majority of proposed network designs, including all plausible options, fail to transmit the power from where it is generated to the high-demand areas and in particular to the constrained area of north London. The Government—I have written to the Minister about this—must insist that National Grid ESO conducts further modelling to resolve the northern boundary constraints into London. Option 5b in ESO study’s mentions a possible link between Tilbury and Isle of Grain, which might resolve the problem, but it is the very option that ESO has not yet modelled. Without that, Norwich to Tilbury cannot possibly be justified, and we have the data to prove it.
Under all plausible scenarios, interconnectors would export that clean electricity to Europe for 80% of the time at a loss to the UK, in order to avoid making constraint payments to the wind farms. That cannot possibly justify the 60 million pylons across our landscapes. That is the main reason why I oppose the new inter- connector with Germany called Tarchon, which would join a new National Grid East Anglian connection node near Ardleigh in my constituency. Ironically, that connection causes so much of the environmental damage. It requires the Norwich-to-Tilbury project to divert to the east of Colchester by crossing the Dedham Vale special landscape area and then to double back to the west, parallel to the line of the A12. Even undergrounding high-voltage AC cables is hugely disruptive to the landscape and its archaeology.
Tarchon would not proceed without an Ofgem-approved cap and floor agreement. Ofgem’s press release stated:
“Interconnectors can make energy supply cleaner, cheaper and more secure”,
but none of those three claims applies to Tarchon. The ESO report found that Tarchon will not increase UK electricity security even in the most extreme case and will not help us to achieve net zero. In fact, our exports reduce Germany’s carbon emissions but put ours up, because we continue to rely on fossil fuels to keep the lights on in London.
It gets worse: ESO’s analysis of the system constraints concludes that power will be exported even when overall UK prices are high. The constrained northern boundary into London means that Tarchon is expected to export power 80% of the time, regardless of domestic prices.
What about the cost to UK electricity bill payers? Tarchon will cost £5 billion, underwritten by electricity bill payers, and at least £7 billion in returns to the largely foreign investors will be protected. We cannot allow it to proceed. The fact that high-voltage direct current undergrounding has emerged as a viable option means that the Government should pause the great national grid upgrade. In Germany, HVDC is the default option—
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing this very important debate. Like other colleagues, I want to voice and relay the concerns of many of my constituents across Ceredigion about the proposed new pylon line, which my hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) referred to.
The communities raising these concerns are not blind to the urgent need to address climate change and decarbonise our economy. Indeed, the Welsh Government’s “Energy Generation in Wales: 2022” report, which was published last October, details the equivalent percentage of local electricity consumption met by local renewable electricity generation for each county in Wales. For Ceredigion, 118% of our local electricity consumption in 2022 was met by local renewable electricity generation. The communities voicing concerns about the impact of new pylon infrastructure on the environment and the potential devaluation of their properties are not doing so from a point of ignorance and are not denying the urgent need to contribute to our decarbonisation efforts. Indeed, the communities along Ceredigion’s coastline and interior valleys have long made a contribution to these decarbonisation efforts, and will continue to do so.
At the heart of this debate is the idea of a just transition that balances the concerns of communities with the need for new infrastructure. Although definitions of a just transition differ, my understanding of the concept is that it is about seeking to bring about fairer outcomes from the transition to net zero by maximising the benefits of climate action and minimising the negative impacts on communities. We have already heard that a failure to ensure a just transition exacerbates inequalities, affects support for action to address climate change and biodiversity loss, and leads to legal challenges. Ultimately, it can impact policy implementation.
This is a difficult balance to strike, or at least it was in the past—I am very pleased to say to the Minister that a solution has been found to make things a lot easier. My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr mentioned a new technique called cable ploughing. We all agree that the national grid urgently needs upgrading and strengthening, but it is disappointing that the Government have thus far failed to consider the benefits and advantages of cable ploughing techniques by an innovative company based in my hon. Friend’s constituency in Pencader, further down the Teifi valley from some of the communities that have been impacted by this pylon line. It has been innovative in using spider ploughing machines to advance the way that cable ploughing techniques can install these transmission cables, and it drastically reduces the cost and time taken to complete the infrastructure upgrade.
In the past, the Government have argued that undergrounding is too expensive, but this new technique shows that it can be done much quicker, at a much lower cost, with a reduced impact on the local environment. It is worth emphasising the comparison between this cable ploughing technique and the erection of pylons. One pylon company said that it might take the best part of four months to install and equip a single pylon tower. We can compare that with the fact that ATP, the company in my hon. Friend’s constituency, averaged, when working on the Seagreen project, 1.45 km of cable installation per day. That means opening, installing and closing with just one cable ploughing machine, and with minimal environmental impact, such that the land was returned to the owner the following day. Cable ploughing could be a means of balancing the need for new electricity infrastructure with the importance of minimising not only financial costs but unnecessary environmental impact and community opposition.
The UK Government have repeatedly been asked to commission an up-to-date study to take into account these new techniques and a cost comparison with traditional pylon infrastructure. My ask for the Minister today is simply this: could he please agree to do so?
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
My hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) has done the House a service by bringing forward this matter for our consideration. I want, in the time available, to speak about three things: utility, beauty and legitimacy.
T. S. Eliot said:
“Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important.”
Such people invariably use utility to justify their claim: “This must be done. There are no other options. There is no choice. This is necessary.” But the truth is that very often there are competing necessities. Certainly, it is necessary to think strategically about a grid fit for the future. I try, as a matter of a mix of good taste and good judgment, to resist the arguments of Liberal Democrats, but the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) is frequently irresistible, and today the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) made an excellent point about the relationship between supply and demand. This is too rarely considered, and because it has not been considered enough—I first encountered the argument when I was the Energy Minister —transmission and distribution costs have grown and grown, so that they are now roughly 15% of every electricity bill. We do need a grid that works; that is a necessity. But there are other necessities too. In terms of utility, let us just think about the point that my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild) made about sites of special scientific interest on the Wash —a unique habitat for migrating birds. Is that really compatible with 87 miles of 50-metre-high pylons? Of course it is not. That is a competing necessity.
Let me say a word about beauty. Those who do not know the fens will not necessarily appreciate the glory of the open landscape and the big skies that are justly celebrated. They have never been filled by tall structures, apart from churches—of course, churches are about God, in a way that pylons could never be. Let us not fill those big skies and destroy that precious, unique landscape in this way. It would be a crime, in my judgment, to do so. Let us believe in the beauty of the fens and the glory of our countryside—our green and pleasant land—and defend it. I hope that that is what my hon. Friend the Minister will do when he winds up this debate. National Grid does not seem concerned about that and, when challenged on cost—because cost-effectiveness is of course important—it frequently insists that no other option is viable, yet the Germans are looking at just such another option.
Sir John Hayes
I will give way to the hon. Lady, given that I was so nice about her earlier.
Wera Hobhouse
I will be very quick. Should National Grid not recognise that all these objections actually increase the costs, because the timelines get much longer, and that is usually where the costs increase dramatically?
Sir John Hayes
Absolutely, and as Lincolnshire County Council has pointed out, National Grid’s calculations underestimate the compensation that would be paid, the damage to the environment—all the other additional costs that are associated with putting pylons on land, but that will be avoided if cables are put under the ocean. That is what I gather the Welsh Government are now considering, and it is what the Germans have already taken as their default position. And yet we are told that pylons are the future. My goodness, when that was said, I could not help but laugh—without meaning to be impertinent in any way, Mrs Latham—because they are anything but the future. Surely that is yesterday’s approach to tomorrow’s problems.
Let us glory in beauty, in the way that the planning system now increasingly does. The new national planning policy framework, I am delighted to say, states:
“Planning policies and decisions should contribute to and enhance the natural and local environment by…recognising the intrinsic character and beauty of the countryside, and the wider benefits from natural capital and ecosystem services”.
Furthermore, when I asked the then Minister of State at the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer), about the fens in particular, she said:
“Special consideration will…be given to preserving the landscapes of, for example, the Somerset levels, Romney Marsh and the magnificent fens of Cambridgeshire, Lincolnshire and Norfolk.”—[Official Report, 13 December 2022; Vol. 724, c. 1013.]
That is precisely what we want.
The third thing that I said I would speak about is legitimacy. I have a petition, initiated in my constituency and beyond, which has already attracted 1,200 signatures against the pylon proposals. Popular consent is essential if we are to get the support that we need for an energy policy that works. People do not want this. It is not necessary, it can be avoided and we expect the Minister to do just that, in the name of the people, of utility, of beauty and of legitimacy.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
It is nice to see you in the Chair, Mrs Latham. I offer a great many thanks to the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) for securing this important debate. It is clear that elected Members are consistent in their approach to the situation, no matter the colour of their rosette. I will seek as far as possible not to be too political in my observations, and I hope that I succeed in that ambition.
My constituents, like many others, are frustrated with the opacity of the dynamic The network owner and operators in the north of Scotland is Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks—the corresponding body in England and Wales is National Grid—and the process of holding it to account is extremely frustrating. With some legitimacy, SSEN will say, “We have been tasked by the ESO to deliver this much energy down this corridor with this price envelope and by this time,” and when we crunch those numbers, we end up with pylons. If we speak to the ESO about that frustration, it says, “Oh, no, we are technology agnostic. We do not care how SSEN deliver that system—that is up to them—as long as it is consistent with our delivery schedules.” That is a clear disconnect from the outset.
The ESO has been guilty of gross complacency in anticipating that when delivering this level of civil engineering across sensitive parts of this island—we are talking purely about GB, rather than UK—people locally will say, “That’s okay. I don’t mind pylons. Just throw them up wherever you like and we will all get on with it.” That is not acceptable or legitimate, and that is distinct from the ambition to decarbonise our electricity system and the ambitions of net zero.
There is no debate about the need to transmit the electricity from where it is generated to where it is required, but it is about how we do that. We have heard a whole range of compelling arguments this afternoon about why we should look at alternative solutions, and I will touch on some of the difficulty that my constituents in Angus face around that dynamic. These are very exercised, intelligent and experienced people saying no to the prospect of pylons going through the northern opening of the big Strath—Strathmore. I am not sure if hon. Members are familiar with Angus. We have heard about the garden of Wales, and I can assure everyone that Angus is the garden of Scotland. Strathmore is not designated to be an area of outstanding natural beauty, but I assure everyone that it is beautiful, outstanding and natural.
We already have a 275 kV line coming down the Strath. We have a prospect under the ESO’s holistic network design of an additional 400 kV pylon line coming down the Strath. We now learn that under the TCSNP, which is nothing to do with my party—apparently it is a strategic network plan, but it is not very strategic, if you ask me—there is an additional 400 kV line to come down the Strath. It is not realistic or fair to think that people will say, “Oh well, that’s okay. We accept that three towering lines of pylons must come down one of the most beautiful parts of Scotland.” It is not fair to constituents across GB who are similarly affected, and it is not fair to our collective ambition to decarbonise our energy system. Undoubtedly, because of the complacency of the ESO—goodness knows what Ofgem was doing throughout all this—there will be planning appeals, delays and public inquiries. Where does that leave our ambitions for net zero?
For context, Scotland generates 11.4 GW from wind—we are probably delivering against that today. We are connected to England, where the market largely is, by a 6 GW interconnector, so we can see the scale of the gap we are talking about. The wind generation capacity that has been developed in Scotland by both the Scottish and the UK Governments did not happen overnight; it has happened over two decades. It is therefore a fairly ignominious position for the UK Government to find themselves in, where there is such a chronic mismatch between transmission capacity and generating capacity. That is important, because the roll-out of the network is a firefight. It has not been done in a planned and strategic manner, with proper stakeholder engagement and management. It is being rushed through, in relative terms, overnight because the situation is critical.
We heard from the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) about the need to pay generators curtailment fees because we cannot get their energy on to the network, but that is only half the story. We are not factoring in the cost of switching on gas to replace the energy we need from wind but that we cannot get to the market because of constraints on the network. Then, when we start to look at the gross effect of that cost build-up, we open the door to looking at more expensive infrastructure other than pylons and still having a sound business case. That is the ambition of constituents in Angus and in many other places as well.
Undergrounding and, in particular, offshoring need to be looked at, for interconnectors going from Scotland to England, where the population centres are towards the south. Offshoring should be the default position until we can make a robust argument against such an ambition, for which the challenges are manifold. In Angus, we have the very start of where seed potatoes can be grown. It is a tremendously important cash crop for Scotland, which cannot really be grown elsewhere in GB. However, crops are literally blighted by potato cyst nematode, which goes from farm to farm. What, therefore, happens when all the construction vehicles are going from farm to farm in my part of the world and in other places in the north of Scotland? It is not acceptable.
I listened with care to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) and I accept as an actual matter of fact the role of the Scottish Government in planning and their ability to make a decision. Let us not, however, try and saddle the Scottish Government with the burden of the impact on communities. They are just as keen as the UK Government to see network capacity developed, but, unlike the UK Government and their agencies, they are not mandating how it should be developed. They will take a role under planning law—I am sure I do not need to explain that planning is quasi-judicial and a decision is not made on the basis of how someone is feeling one day—and transact that consistent with policy in Scotland. However, this is not a challenge of the Scottish Government’s creation. Energy is a reserved matter for the UK Government and the UK Parliament, so the genesis of the challenge remains here at Westminster.
I want to underline that my constituents, and I am sure the constituents of everyone in this room, are talking about their need and their ambitions to see something more innovative and more realistic, consistent with their ambitions and the natural environment. A discussion is needed about cost-benefit analysis where the cost is not simply financial; it is about the cost to society, the cost to communities and the cost to the environment. That all needs to be factored in as well. It must also be understood that the infrastructure is disaggregated across 40 million billpayers and then, again, across many decades of return on capital invested by the infrastructure. It will last for many decades. When we are therefore initially confronted with a figure that is £1 billion, £2 billion, £3 billion or possibly £4 billion more expensive than option A, we have to look at what that means in terms of an actual cost to an actual billpayer per year. I am not satisfied that that type of analysis has been done.
My constituents, along with right hon. and hon. Members in this debate, are frustrated that they have neither the cost of the pylon route to come through their part of this island, nor a comparative analysis of what the undergrounding or subsea solution would be, other than that it would be expensive. That kind of nebulous nonsense does not wash with people. They will have to have some further detail on that.
Mrs Latham, I have no shortage of respect and admiration for the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mark Fletcher), but I am very disappointed that there is no Minister from the Department present to hear this debate. I trust—in fact, I am sure—that we will get a sturdy and robust response from the Minister here today, but it is a pity it was not one from the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.
Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)
For future reference, my name is pronounced “Layth-am”, not “Lath-am”.
Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)
I will make sure to pronounce your name “Layth-am”, and not otherwise, Mrs Latham. And, given my experience in previous debates, I will make sure that I face you when speaking this afternoon.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on obtaining this Backbench Business debate. It has been very interesting, and has enabled us to set out the exquisite dilemma in terms of the relationship between the imperatives of grid strengthening and grid development, and managing our processes in such a way as to ensure that everything we are doing for the net zero imperative can be connected and organised so that we get the benefit of the renewable change for the future. That undoubtedly means—and this is a very basic reality check—that we cannot do without a huge extension and development of our grids, both onshore and offshore, in order to bring about that future benefit.
In addition, it is estimated that we will consume or demand something like 64% more electricity—possibly even more than that, as the Minister points out—across our country by 2035. That all has to be supplied, delivered and landed. Among other things, as the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie) pointed out, we first have to make sure that the new power we are producing—onshore, offshore, new nuclear, offshore wind, floating wind, or whatever it may be—gets connected up so that it can deliver the additional electricity.
Secondly, we also have to make sure that the new power can get where it needs to go. As other hon. Members have mentioned, we have a huge crisis in our country at the moment, namely a failure to deliver power from where it is landed to where it is needed. We have a tremendous constraint problem in the delivery of power across the country, particularly north-south. Constraining power that is landed when it should be flowing down the cables to where it is needed will potentially be a huge waste of resource for the future.
I have said that this is a serious dilemma, when we consider the current proposals to make progress on this particular issue—as it happens, there is a new publication called, “Beyond 2030: A national blueprint for a decarbonised electricity system in Great Britain.” It was published about a month ago by the Energy System Operator, which of course is not the national grid; it is the system operator, which will become the National Energy System Operator very shortly. This publication is part of the strategic planning arrangement for the future.
We can see from that “blueprint” that most of what will be wanted past 2030 is offshore. The bootstraps that have been mentioned, in terms of dealing with constraint issues, are all offshore. I lay some blame at the Government’s door for the arrangements for landing offshore wind energy in the future. Unlike the point-to-point arrangements in the past for offshore wind, the future arrangements will deal with nodal collection out to sea and therefore the energy will be landed at many fewer points.
Many hon. Members have asked whether those arrangements should be largely at sea, and the answer is, “Yes, they will be largely at sea, and quite right, too.” That is what we need to ensure we keep our eye on, in planning for the future. To go back to the dilemma, however, that arrangement cannot be the case everywhere; we cannot simply manage a system of new cabling where it all goes out to sea, it is not landed and not transported across the country.
The problem that we all have to solve is where those things are not out at sea and have to be on land—a pretty limited number of the proposals in the “Beyond 2030” report are on land—and how we can do that in the best way to ensure, as hon. Members have already said this afternoon, we take the public with us and are united in recognising why we need those particular things to happen and why they are being done.
I am very interested in the observations today about how we can ameliorate what we put across land when we recognise that there is an imperative for us to do so, taking into account all the other things that are already being done offshore. First, that means—this is actually in the gift of Government right now—that we change the arrangements whereby undergrounding is always considered to be a much more costly operation, simply because the full effect is not taken into account, as the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) mentioned. That full effect is the overall strategic effect of undergrounding as opposed to building pylons in onshore arrangements.
If we had a different way of measuring that full effect through our permissioning systems, we would go a long way towards making undergrounding a much better proposition for onshore arrangements. Indeed, as the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake) said, the interesting new developments in cable ploughing and other technology can substantially reduce the cost of undergrounding in the future.
There are several ways, including demand-side measures, to establish whether we actually need quite the length of cabling that we think we will need in the future, and there are ways in which we can make that imperative much more palatable to our population. What is not on the table is doing nothing about cable extensions because, as I have said, that would just take us back to the dilemma of the imperative—we have got to get on with cable extensions and very quickly if we are to deliver our green revolution.
Jamie Stone
I have heard SSEN ask on several occasions, “Well, what can we do for the community to make things more acceptable?” That type of proposed deal strikes me as unacceptable. I hope the hon. Gentleman agrees that just offering something to a community will not really sort the problem at all. “You take the pylons, and we’ll do this and do that”—I bet that we have all experienced that type of exchange.
Dr Whitehead
The hon. Gentleman is quite right. The idea of bunging people a few pounds to make something that is a problem less of a problem is not really a long-term strategy. Instead, we need to gain first understanding and secondly consent for what we continue to do overground, and indeed to try to integrate that with what we do at sea, to ensure we have maximised those arrangements. That will allow us to say that we have got our grid together so that it can face the demands that will be placed on it, and that we have done so in a way that allows our country to work well for the future. This afternoon, I hope the Minister will concentrate his thoughts on how we do that together.
Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I must apologise that the Minister responsible, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), was unable to be here today, as he is otherwise engaged. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman) on securing this debate. As I listened to some of the contributions, I did regret that the Minister responsible did not leave me his hard hat. Indeed, since I was told yesterday that I would be responding to this debate, my right hon. Friends the Members for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) and for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams) and my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) have all contacted me about this issue, so I have some idea of the pressures that come with this role. I can see that this is a particularly difficult issue for many constituents.
An expanded electricity network is critical to lowering consumer bills, securing our energy supply, delivering green growth and skilled jobs and decarbonising our electricity system, but it must be delivered strategically and sensitively, in a way that considers and mitigates the impacts on communities and on our treasured landscapes. I thank all hon. and right hon. Members for their contributions today. We all recognise that this is an important subject for our communities. My colleagues and I are clear that community voices must be heard in our transformation of the electricity system. As the Prime Minister has made clear, we are making the change to net zero in a way that supports communities and families. That is true for new electricity infrastructure, and the organisations responsible for the planning and delivery of that infrastructure are working to deliver on that.
This country is undergoing an energy revolution, which has reducing consumer costs, respecting environmental and community considerations and protecting national security at its core. Members will be under no illusion that in order to bring new home-grown electricity on to the system, we must expand the electricity network considerably, rewiring from where new generation is being built, in our wind-rich seas and new coastal nuclear sites, and connecting it to areas of demand. We anticipate that we will need to meet double the current level of demand by 2050, and we will need an efficient, high-tech system to transport that power to drive our country forward.
The Government are leading efforts to speed up this network expansion to connect new generation and demand when and where it is needed. We are acutely mindful of the potential visual impacts of electricity transmission infrastructure on communities, particularly overhead lines. The reinforcement of the network to transport this low-carbon electricity is being delivered through a balance of methods, including making upgrades to existing infrastructure, such as offshore and undersea power cables. The use of undergrounding is the starting presumption in nationally designated areas—national parks or areas of outstanding natural beauty—to protect those landscapes.
Sir John Hayes
Given what I said about the agreement the Government made to protect flat lands such as the fens in relation to onshore wind, which involves much lower structures, will the Government, on the grounds of consistency, add the fens to the list the Minister has just set out?
Mark Fletcher
I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. I am not empowered to give that particular positive response, but he has already called on me throughout the debate to respect beauty, and I hear what he has said loud and clear.
Elsewhere, overhead lines should be the strong starting presumption, but this remains flexible, and undergrounding may be used in other areas in certain circumstances, namely where there is a high potential for widespread adverse landscapes and/or visual impacts. Such decisions will be weighed up through the planning process. The Government have worked with the Electricity Systems Operator to create a new process for strategic planning for electricity networks, which considers the four principles of impacts: on the environment, on communities, on costs to consumers, and on the deliverability and operability of that system. That design process looks at the network holistically, identifying areas where existing infrastructure should be upgraded and reinforced, and considering where co-ordination efficiencies, or innovations such as offshore cabling, can be used to reduce the overall impact on communities of infrastructure expansion.
New innovations in cable technology are enabling a very substantial offshore network to be created to help reduce the need for new transmission infrastructure on land. The recommendations in the ESO’s most recent network plans mean that, by 2035, three times as much undersea cabling could be laid than new pylons in Britain. However, we will inevitably require some new onshore infrastructure, as those offshore links have to make landfall and run inland. We must also consider the impacts on the marine environment and marine users, such as the fisheries industry, just as we would on land, as well as the far greater costs of offshore cabling.
Dave Doogan
I respect the Minister’s logic, but while it is all very well to transmit subsea, it has to come on land somewhere to find its way to the consumer base. The line that I am talking about, which goes between Aberdeen and Carlisle, is transmitting energy down half the length of GB. That is not making landfall; that is transmitting down the land of the island. It is a different proposition, and is it not inconsistent with his logic?
Mark Fletcher
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that contribution. I have to be incredibly careful when it comes to the specifics of individual projects. He will appreciate, as he mentioned in his own speech, that there is a quasi-judicial role for the Department and for the Secretary of State, so he will forgive me if I do not comment on a specific case.
I recognise the concerns that communities have about energy infrastructure projects proposed in their areas, and hon. Members are right to raise that issue today. That is why, in last year’s autumn statement, the Chancellor announced proposals for a community benefits scheme for communities living near new transmission network infrastructure. That will see communities receive funding of £200,000 per kilometre of overhead lines in their area, £40,000 per kilometre of underground cables, and £200,000 per substation—and communities can decide how that funding is best spent locally. In addition to those generous community benefits, the Chancellor also announced that properties closest to the new transmission network infrastructure will receive electricity discounts of up to £1,000 per year for 10 years.
Of course, the electricity system needs to be expanded at a scale and a pace not seen for decades, but that must be done—and is being done—with community views at the forefront. That transformation will not only reduce household energy bills but foster skilled jobs and high-quality investment across Great Britain. Once again, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness, and I am incredibly conscious that he should have some time to finish up at the end. I will return to the Whips Office, where I will be silent forever more.
Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)
Unfortunately, there is not time for the hon. Member to wind up.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered pylons and upgrades to the national grid.
Volunteers
(7 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the contribution of volunteers.
I am delighted to speak on the theme of volunteering. The absence of a large number of Back Benchers gives me the chance to opine at length on a subject close to my heart. I thank the hon. Member for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy), who kindly co-sponsored this debate with me; she sends her apologies for health reasons, but would like me to state her recognition of the enormous contribution of the volunteers, in County Durham and beyond, who do so much for our communities. I would like to use this debate to do exactly the same.
This may be my last opportunity to highlight the wonderful work of individuals and organisations in my constituency without the pressure of a tight time limit, Ms Nokes, so I hope that you and the Minister will indulge me if I incorporate into the debate a love letter to the wonderful people it has been my privilege to work with in the great city of Stoke-on-Trent, including the more than 70 charities and community groups who share their wisdom and provide mutual support at my charity roundtable. In a city where many people struggle with both their finances and their health, I am humbled by the work of the many volunteers who step up to help those who are less fortunate, and by how those with little look after those with less.
The resilience of my local community stems from a strong sense of place and identity, and decades of disappointment about a lack of investment after the decline of the traditional industries that were a feature of the city: the steelworks, the mines and the potteries. As the city sees a renaissance, with the growth of new creative and digital sectors, transport and logistics and new civil service jobs, there are still too many who struggle with the cost of living or with accessing services. The help that volunteers provide is essential.
Next month, charities across the UK will be celebrating 40 years of Volunteers Week, an annual campaign that starts on the first Monday of June. It is an opportunity for charities and the wider public to recognise, celebrate and thank the UK’s incredible volunteers for all that they contribute to our local communities, the voluntary sector and society as a whole. I am grateful for the opportunity to have this debate in advance of Volunteers Week: it allows me not only to highlight the incredible achievements of our country as a result of volunteering, but to make a call to action to those who have got out of the habit of volunteering or may never have had the opportunity. I encourage them to look at their local community and consider how they might help out and give their time.
Volunteering is critical to a vibrant, flourishing and resilient civil society. It benefits volunteers and the organisations with which they are involved; it has transformational impacts on beneficiaries and their communities, delivering public services and building social cohesion. That support can be seen particularly clearly during crises such as the covid-19 pandemic, but community support is not simply about helping people affected by the pandemic or its economic and social aftershocks. The contribution of volunteers extends much further and deeper than unforeseen emergencies. Many people volunteer with sports clubs, youth groups—including the Scouts, the Guides and other uniformed groups—and faith communities or neighbourhoods. Others provide more specialised support, such as youth mentoring; working with prisoners or the homeless; or volunteering in a hospital or other health settings, such as through Helpforce, a charity providing volunteers in support of the NHS. In my own patch, the work of volunteers for the local hospice is remarkable.
There is a lack of robust data on the economic and wider social impact of volunteering, but it is worth noting that Andy Haldane, a former chief economist at the Bank of England, has valued the contribution of volunteering to the UK economy as being in excess of £50 billion a year, or 2.5% of GDP. Even that is likely to be an underestimate: if occasional and informal volunteering were included, the figure would probably be much higher. The latest data from the National Council for Voluntary Organisations shows that approximately 14.2 million people in the UK volunteer through a group, club or organisation, with many more volunteering informally.
Interestingly, people over 50 are most likely to volunteer and provide unpaid care. According to the latest community life survey results, respondents aged 65 to 74 were most likely to participate in formal volunteering at least once a month compared with other age groups, alongside the contributions they make to the economy through work. It is important that we recognise and value the impactful contributions that the many volunteers over state pension age make by bringing their wealth of skills and experience developed in the workplace.
The benefits work both ways. Volunteering can have a transformational impact on the lives of older people themselves. Research has shown that older people who take part in volunteering report improved wellbeing, improved life satisfaction and lower rates of depression. Older people are incredibly positive towards charities and do a great deal to support them, both financially and through volunteering. There is a real appetite among many older people to do more. Many have a skill that they would like to use to help a charity, but do not know how to get involved.
I feel strongly that more needs to be done to link older people up with volunteering opportunities, giving them the chance to access all the health and wellbeing benefits that are linked directly to community action. That is why I am hosting an over-55s fair at Staffordshire University on 31 May, to offer advice and connect people. It is a core part of my Nothing but a Number summit, which aims to make Stoke-on-Trent an age-friendly city. The importance of volunteering will definitely be on the agenda.
At the other end of the spectrum, social action has a dual benefit for young people: the positive impact for the chosen cause and the personal skill gained from the experience. It helps to improve students’ motivation at school, and is particularly powerful in developing soft skills such as leadership and teamwork, which are more difficult to teach in the classroom. Research has discovered that young people are extremely socially minded and believe that individuals have a duty to make a positive social contribution. They are committed to causes and want to use their time to make an impact.
Although many young people want to make a difference, they too need information on how to get involved. People want to volunteer. Time and again, I hear about people not knowing how to make the first step. That is the biggest barrier to volunteer recruitment. Despite the overall decline in volunteering, 62% of people who have not volunteered in the past three years say that they could be encouraged to volunteer. There is huge untapped potential, which provides a key opportunity for the Government to support the sector in unlocking this good will. The Scouts shared with me that people volunteer either because they have an existing connection to the Scouts or simply because they were asked to. We should not underestimate the power of simply asking people to volunteer.
I run a local charity roundtable every month. A lovely story was shared with me by the National Literacy Trust. One of its literacy champions, Caroline, began her journey with the trust during the summer of 2022, when she supported some of its very busy Tales in the Park events. Since then, the whole family have got involved. They are always on hand to support the trust’s work. They have run activities that benefit our community, including running literacy activities on Port Vale match days, running a Hallowe’en Booktacular event outside their house, where they gave out books as well as sweets, running a community bookcase outside their house, and supporting many of our local literacy events.
At school, Caroline’s son Jayden ran Look for a Book trails for his class during Kindness Week and supported his school with book donations. He even runs a community bookcase, wheeling out his trolley of books every Friday afternoon for parents to choose and swap books. Having started as a reluctant reader, Jayden is so proud to be a literacy champion and is keen to support his peers in any way he can. He just loves helping people. That is just one example of how inspiring young people to volunteer can encourage them to invite friends and family to join in their voluntary activities.
Jayden volunteers because he loves helping people. NCVO research shows that people overwhelmingly volunteer because they want to make improvements to the communities they live in and help the people around them. When people are asked why they volunteer, the most common motivation is simply the desire to make a difference. People also gain a sense of achievement by volunteering; they make new friends, gain new skills and improve their career prospects.
Not only does volunteering have significant value to society, but a recent report by the British Heart Foundation has found that it has clear benefits to the individual, and it can play a key role in contributing to the Government’s ambitions for increasing healthy life expectancy, levelling up and tackling loneliness. In particular, 94% of volunteers agreed that volunteering had helped them feel less isolated or lonely, 92% agreed that volunteering had helped their mental health and 80% agreed that it had helped their physical health.
Volunteering can take many different forms across all settings in society. One in five recent volunteers have volunteered for local community or neighbourhood groups, the most popular cause: that might include volunteering at food banks or hostels or helping the homeless. There are also many services delivered by volunteers that are deemed essential by the public: the Samaritans, St John Ambulance and Citizens Advice, to name but a few.
I read in the news recently that the boss of the supermarket chain Iceland had said that medics saved his life after he collapsed at last Sunday’s London marathon. He was racing to raise money for Alzheimer’s Research UK when he became unconscious just a mile from the finish line. He came around to St John Ambulance volunteers piling ice on his chest in an attempt to bring his temperature down from a dangerously high 42°C. Volunteers like these make an extraordinary contribution to our society. They played a huge part in the successful roll-out of vaccines during the covid-19 pandemic, and they continue to support communities through cost of living challenges.
Volunteering also keeps our high streets alive and preserves the heritage of our towns. Let us consider charity shops; we know that high streets around the country could be completely abandoned without them. Without people running things on high streets, we would lose the soul of our towns and cities. Dougie Mac is a well-loved Stoke charity, and I am sure that we can all picture the shop fronts for other charities such as Cancer Research, the Salvation Army and Oxfam. Charities up and down the country are so grateful for the volunteers who run their retail, without which they would cease to exist: the vast majority of their income has to be generated through commercial activities, and without volunteers, that would be impossible. We need to maintain the community input into keeping our high streets alive, and recognise the role that volunteers play.
To come back to local heritage, I love visiting Etruria Industrial Museum in Stoke. It has the only operational steam-powered potter’s mill in the world. It is managed by Bernard Lovatt and run entirely by volunteers. If not for Bernard, this significant heritage site would most likely have ceased to operate, despite being of huge historical impact not only to Stoke-on-Trent but to the history of ceramics manufacturing in the UK. Many of the places that we value, such as National Trust properties, would not survive without an army of volunteers. Passing on our knowledge of history to future generations would be impossible. Volunteering is vital for society, and the Government need to keep recognising that.
Who knows where volunteering can lead? My good friend Danny Flynn, the head of North Staffs YMCA, began his career in the charity sector by moving to London to work as a community service volunteer at a day centre for homeless people. He now runs one of the most successful YMCAs in the country. Under his leadership, many young people are given a helping hand. The monthly community meal encourages volunteer teams from across the city to cook a meal for 100 people in the community. A few months ago, I enjoyed taking the challenge up myself.
Every volunteering journey is different. Danika started volunteering as a community champion with Thrive at Five, a national charity that attends my roundtable. Supported and given the chance to learn new skills, she set up a club to support parents over the summer holidays. She now has a paid position walking alongside parents in their journey through the early years—all because she volunteered.
We know the profound benefit that volunteering has on the individual, on communities and on society, but there are still many barriers to overcome. When I spoke to volunteers at my local branch of St John Ambulance, I was surprised to learn that they have to purchase their own uniforms. That, plus the cost of travel, can be a barrier. I am grateful that the Government have already invested a lot of money in removing some of those barriers and getting people involved. In March 2023, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport launched the Know Your Neighbourhood fund with up to £30 million to widen participation in volunteering and tackle loneliness in 27 disadvantaged areas across England. However, we can still do more.
Volunteers are not valued enough by society as a whole, and the UK does not even measure the work of volunteers and voluntary organisations, so we cannot fully credit their contribution to society. That said, the scale of the voluntary response to the pandemic was undoubtedly amazing: millions of people looking after their neighbours reconnected the social fabric, but the effect did not persist because people had to go back to their jobs and had less time on their hands. Mid-covid, I wrote an article discussing the importance of supporting the voluntary sector in which I predicted that many of the vast army of individuals who came forward to help neighbours and neighbourhoods would disappear once everyone went back to their pre-covid life. Unfortunately, that is precisely the situation we now face. Levels of formal volunteering have declined and remain well below pre-pandemic levels. In 2017 17% of people had volunteered in the past 12 months; by 2023 just 13% had. That is an estimated 1.55 million fewer people volunteering over the period.
The long-term trend toward greater reliance on a smaller civic core is troubling. It is a real concern for charities: 40% report that the lack of volunteers has prevented them from meeting their main objectives. Small charities in particular, which make up 80% of the 165,000 registered charities in England, are facing huge problems with volunteer recruitment and retention, but this issue has been raised with me even by national charities, such as the Scouts, which make invaluable contributions to the voluntary workforce across the UK but are currently facing challenges in volunteer recruitment. That has led to unprecedented waiting lists and a worrying decline in their workforce.
The increase in need is not being matched by an increase in volunteering capacity. In fact, many charities are victims of their own success. They often deliver vital services that the public value but are not currently or fully delivered through public sector bodies. The voluntary sector is often asked to do more, but not given the funding to match.
Volunteers also need training and support. During the pandemic, an incredible volunteer army helped on every street by delivering shopping for neighbours who were shielding and aiding with the vaccine roll-out. Volunteers who go into people’s homes and work with the most vulnerable need training and support. I became aware of the professional requirements often required of volunteers when I visited one of my local organisations, Birches Head Get Growing, which is a wonderful group that collects and distributes food, clothing, household items, books and toys to tackle issues relating to poverty and waste. Co-ordinating a group of 30 to 40 volunteers and leading workshops and courses is a full-time job.
The belief of local charities and, most significantly, faith groups that we hold the solutions to the problems we face locally and that we can work together with the resources we already have to make an impact that will be an endless legacy for our communities, is truly inspirational, but it is becoming ever more challenging. Interestingly, we are seeing changing trends in the kinds of volunteering people seek: there is a preference for shorter term, more flexible or one-off opportunities. That is a shift from the traditional pattern whereby people provide large amounts of time to one organisation over many years. Although that poses challenges for organisations delivering services, it provides opportunities to attract new and more diverse volunteers.
Interestingly, 53% of new British Heart Foundation volunteer recruits between January and March 2023 were 16 to 24-year-olds, compared with 42% before the pandemic. Perhaps this is an opportunity to think about how we can retain engagement with a younger generation of volunteers, but in doing that, we also need to make sure that we address the fact that younger volunteers in particular are worried about being left out of pocket. Only half of volunteers surveyed by the NCVO said that their organisation would reimburse them for their expenses if they asked. The increasing financial barriers to volunteering are very likely to mean that even fewer people from deprived areas volunteer. The NCVO, which does an incredible job of supporting the voluntary sector, has done a lot of work with MPs through the all-party parliamentary group on charities and volunteering, and we will be publishing a report at the end of May that takes a deeper look at the “Time Well Spent” data on deprivation and volunteering.
When looking for other opportunities to open doors to volunteering initiatives, we should consider the workplace and businesses’ commitment to corporate social responsibility. Many businesses already excel at supporting volunteer efforts and collaborating with charities to leverage employee volunteering to address social and environmental issues. I recently heard from Amazon, which encourages employees to participate in a global month of volunteering to support causes that they are passionate about. Tens of thousands of Amazon employees in the UK will volunteer alongside their peers, adding to the company’s efforts to support its local communities throughout the year. In 2023 more than 43,000 hours were spent volunteering by Amazon employees in the UK.
I am always delighted to hear about everybody who volunteers, even in this place, and my own staff get involved with local initiatives too. Matthew Bridger has pioneered volunteer projects since he was 16, including setting up the Little House Project homeless shoebox appeal, and Izzy Kennedy from my office often volunteers in her local primary school to mentor children who struggle to engage in the classroom. Even in this place, we can encourage our small teams to use their talents and play their part.
People, particularly the younger generation, are increasingly conscious of companies’ reputations and corporate responsibility records. They want to shop with businesses that they see as ethical and are determined to work for organisations whose values they share. We should make it easier for businesses to do this, and work with employers to make volunteering easier. Voluntary organisations need a regular commitment, not the usual three volunteering leave days offered by employers. Will the Minister consider—or has he already considered— introducing a right to request paid leave for volunteering, or amending section 50 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 to enable reasonable time off for trustee duties? School governors, for example, are entitled to time off work under section. Trustees play a vital role overseeing charities, but there are currently an estimated 100,000 trustee vacancies.
We could make volunteering affordable by reviewing and uplifting the approved mileage allowance payment. The approved rate has not changed since 2012, despite the costs associated with motoring having increased substantially. While it is primarily aimed at employees, AMA is also used to reimburse volunteers who use their own car as part of their activities. To enable more people to give their time, might the Minister consider a fair, transparent review of the approved rate?
We should do more research into the potential impact of the cost of living on the ability of university students to participate in volunteering. I spoke to Birches Head Get Growing in my constituency, which provides extensive placements for university students as part of the work placement and site supervisor schemes. More attempts to get students to volunteer like that are needed, but the changed situation following the increase in student fees and the cost of living crisis means that students have become less able or less motivated to volunteer.
I have spoken in the past about social prescribing, which is another popular concept, but does not seem to have had the necessary funding attached at the delivery end. The idea is great, moving us away from medicalising every person’s needs and toward helping in a different community-based way. Examples include helping people to tackle obesity by signing them up to healthy activities, or loneliness by promoting participation in group craft activities; but the organisations that run those activities have costs to meet, and those need to come out of the budgets of prescribers. NHS England should work with the charity sector to increase social prescribing of volunteering, to improve people’s health and reduce pressure on GPs and other healthcare services. Departments should better capture and share information about Government-placed volunteers and the onward journey of those referrals. Again on the topic of data, we need to maximise the impact of the third sector “satellite account” within Office for National Statistics data to better understand and demonstrate the value of the charity sector and volunteering.
We should explore specific policy measures, such as the ones I have briefly mentioned, that support and promote volunteering. Alongside that, we should consider how broader policy choices and broader socioeconomic factors affect volunteering. There is currently no effective strategy for volunteering in England. How much does the Minister consult other Departments about the impact on volunteering of policymaking across a wide range of issues? Will he partner with organisations such as the NCVO and draw on the learning, experience and evidence of the sector to set a strategic direction for volunteering?
I am a great believer in trusting the people, so I am keen for those in our local voluntary sector, who work so closely with our local communities, to articulate a strong vision of a collective approach in order to develop a volunteering strategy that works for Stoke-on-Trent. I look to the Minister to develop a strategy that will work for the country.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Ms Nokes. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) on bringing this important issue to the Floor of the Chamber.
Volunteering is the beating heart of my Bath constituency. Without our volunteers, our charities would simply not survive and sustain the essential activities and services offered to communities. To understand that, we need only look back to the monumental volunteering effort during covid, with people helping with the vaccine roll-out, providing essential goods and medicines to those who were shielding, and ensuring that vulnerable individuals received essential support.
Our communities are so much stronger for volunteering, and I am so grateful to the culture of good will and being kind to one another that exists across my Bath community. It makes for a much better and stronger society, and today is a wonderful opportunity to say thanks to all our volunteers who make that enormous effort. Whenever I meet a volunteer, I see that they do not do it for glory or public recognition; they do it because they are passionately committed to the causes that they support, but today is an opportunity to publicly recognise what they do for us.
I do not want to be risk missing out any of the many voluntary organisations in my constituency, so I will just pay tribute to BANES 3SG, which is a membership network of over 200 charities, social enterprises and community groups in Bath and north-east Somerset. It really came together during covid-19. I hear that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central is organising a volunteers fair, which the network has also organised.
Looking at the model of what BANES 3SG has done in the last four years, it has really transformed the whole of the third sector in my Bath community. It does fantastic work to support charities, social enterprises, and faith and voluntary organisations operating in Bath and north-east Somerset. It aims to strengthen the volunteering offer, and last year it held a volunteers fair that brought together local charities, residents and businesses. Having organisations such as 3SG, which facilitates co-operation between community organisations and statutory bodies in Bath and north-east Somerset, has a huge impact on the lives of so many people. As I said, it has really transformed how volunteering is delivered across the area.
Today’s debate is about not just saying thanks, but pointing out the challenges faced by volunteering and the third sector. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central has already touched on many of them, but I will say a bit more about some. Volunteers come from all walks of life and it is important that we make volunteering accessible for all and identify the barriers in any given area. It is also important to recognise that volunteers are on their own personal journey and may come to giving their time for various reasons. Yet, as I said, most of the time it is because they passionately believe in making a difference. Volunteering also provides connections and support networks that people may not otherwise access.
The sector as a whole faces lots of challenges, not least huge cuts and financial pressures at a time when we are seeing a rise in need and when organisations often support people who are falling through the gaps. There is huge potential for better link-ups to support preventive work through initiatives such as social prescribing, which the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central has already talked about extensively, and volunteering can play a part in that. Many charities report that one of the biggest issues they face is coping with increasing demand on services while having to find long-term sustainable funding. Charities are almost four times more likely to identify funding issues as the most pressing issue facing their organisation, year on year since 2015. Volunteering is essential to help address that additional demand.
Unfortunately, volunteering has been severely affected by covid-19 and has not recovered since. Data from the Charities Aid Foundation’s “UK Giving” report found that only 13% of people said they volunteered in 2023, compared with 17% pre-pandemic. That represents about 1.6 million fewer people volunteering over the past five years, and that is a very big number. The National Council for Voluntary Organisations survey on the volunteer experience found a trend of decline in certain volunteering activities, including raising money or taking part in sponsored events.
Another barrier to people volunteering more often is reported worries about being out of pocket. We have heard that already this afternoon. That is exacerbated by the recent rise in the cost of living. For example, if someone previously commuted to a volunteering position by train, the increased fares may push that activity over the edge of affordability. Work commitments and caring responsibilities are also often cited as significant reasons for not volunteering. In many ways, it is not a surprise that as life gets harder, people’s attention focuses elsewhere and volunteering will decrease.
As we have also heard, volunteering has lots of benefits. Research has shown that people who take part in volunteering report improved wellbeing and life satisfaction and lower rates of depression. As mentioned earlier, it is also so important for our local communities to thrive. One issue, particularly among younger volunteers, is lower reported satisfaction rates. A long-term focus on helping people to find opportunities that suit them would improve fulfilment and increase the retention of volunteers. Trying to maintain volunteer numbers, as well as recruiting new volunteers, is a constant challenge for charities.
The good news is that willingness to volunteer remains very high. If we can address some of the barriers that prevent people from feeling that they can volunteer, there is untapped potential in the people who are willing to do so. According to the national survey on the volunteer experience, the top two most cited reasons for people being encouraged to volunteer is that they could be flexible with the time they committed and flexible with how they get involved, such as volunteering from home. It is therefore encouraging to see that those reasons can be addressed, with the data showing that flexibility in how people volunteer is increasing, and I know many charities in Bath are eager to be a part of that.
Volunteers carry out incredible work to help support non-statutory services. It is therefore wonderful to have a debate that shines a light on the subject and, once again, to say thank you to the thousands and millions of volunteers across the country who are helping to make our society better and richer.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
It is a privilege to serve under you as Chair, Ms Nokes—forgive me, I meant to say that it is a privilege to serve with you in the Chair. I should say first up that it would be tempting to just list the thousands of volunteers I represent in mid and east Devon. However, I will not do that because if I did, I know that I would miss some. Instead, I want to use a specific example that I know well: the Scout movement.
I am very grateful to Molly Taylor, who has done some research for all of us who wanted to speak in the debate on the Scout movement. I should say that I am grateful to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) for applying for the debate, and for pointing out how some people have got out of the habit of volunteering. The pandemic had an effect: on the one hand, it was really good for some people because it got them involved in their communities and volunteering to support others; on the other, it meant that those people who had volunteered for decades were given the opportunity to stay away and reflect on the volunteering that they had done.
Looking at the Scout movement in particular, there were 155,000 volunteers—both adults and young people —in 2020, and that dropped to 140,000 in 2021, but it has now been partly restored to 143,000. For me, the real crying shame is that there are 100,000 young people on the waiting list who cannot join a Scout group for want of another 40,000 adult volunteers. I know from my own involvement in the Scout movement, both as a young person and as a volunteer, that it can be really transformative for young people. It is a movement that exists for people of all socioeconomic backgrounds and all academic abilities.
For example, from what I have seen with Cullompton Scouts, we might find young individuals who do not perform particularly well in an academic setting, but once we put them into an outdoor environment, they really thrive and show their leadership potential, and that is really brought on by people who volunteer—people like James Buczkowski, who is the group Scout leader of Cullompton Scouts. I would like to give a couple of other examples as well: Helen Turner was the group Scout leader of Honiton Scouts and she has been recognised as an honoured citizen of Honiton for her 32 years in that role. I should say that, if one is approached and asked to volunteer for something like scouting, they might not anticipate that it is going to consume that much of their life. Actually, it is the pleasure of volunteering that keeps people in it and doing it for so long. James Bicknell, from Willand Scouts, is a former officer in the Royal Navy who has taken his public service ethos from his workplace into his time off, and he has really imbued that in the young people with whom he is working. Scouting can be really transformative for young people, and that gives a great deal of satisfaction to the adults who are involved.
Sometimes, the organisation and structure of some of the volunteer organisations that we have heard about today can lead others to suppose that the volunteers are in fact paid. That is certainly true for the Scout movement because it is uniformed and it all looks very formal. There is sometimes an assumption that there must be some remuneration in the background or even the payment of expenses. I was interested to hear about the idea that the mileage allowance rate should be uplifted, which strikes me as very sensible for all manner of workplaces. It probably would not affect everybody in the volunteer environment because a lot of the volunteers I know do not claim expenses, or will never have the opportunity to do so. That would probably detract from why they do it—the love of volunteering and the satisfaction it gives them.
It would very easy in this debate to talk about only the upsides and to shy away from some of the things that go wrong in volunteering. In lots of volunteer organisations, there have been incidents and accidents; there have been tragedies. For that reason, volunteer organisations now have quite strict health and safety safeguarding rules, and it is quite right that they do. Again, however, it is a tribute to the people who get stuck into such activity that they are willing to take on that responsibility, because their shoulders are broad enough to do so even though they do not get anything out of volunteering and are opening themselves up to greater liability in this age of litigation.
Why do they do it? I suggest that it is because of the outcomes. Again, if we talk to the people involved in scouting, they say that the paperwork might sometimes be a chore, but they volunteer because they see young people grow and thrive. That probably explains why when the Royal Voluntary Service polled people on what they get from volunteering, 49% of respondents said that they become happier, 52% said that they feel more connected to their community and 56% said that they feel more fulfilled.
Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)
It is a pleasure, Ms Nokes, to serve under your chairship today.
I also take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) on securing an uplifting debate to conclude the week. In her opening remarks, she captured very well indeed the broad sweep and scope of volunteering, and the contribution that it makes, not only to the communities that benefit from it but to the volunteers.
I cannot possibly begin to try and namecheck everybody in my constituency of whom I am aware, and there are many more of whom I am not aware who make that kind of contribution. I am sure that all Members are in exactly the same situation. However, I will just mention three groups, just to give a sense of the scope of volunteering in my constituency.
There is the Gordon Rural Action group, which in many ways fulfils the functions that many of us would recognise as being the functions of the citizens advice bureaux. It does a power of work through various initiatives and through direct help to reduce social exclusion and tackle poverty, particularly in the more rural and outlying parts of my Aberdeenshire constituency. There is also the Ellon and District Men’s Shed, which I very much look forward to visiting next week. There is also the committee that is the powerhouse behind the Victoria Hall in the town of Ellon.
The Victoria Hall in Ellon was a council-owned asset. It is a very handsome building, but it was a bit unloved; it was not really being used to its full potential. There was a community asset transfer. A really go-getting committee of local people got behind the scheme and now the building is block-booked for dancing, exercise classes and just about anything that anyone could imagine; it has even been transformed into a cinema, with all the digital projectors and everything else. The volunteers have really seized that opportunity and the Victoria Hall is now a beating and thriving hub of the town in many respects, breathing life back not just into the building but into the town.
There are also the many Rotary clubs across the district. Before life got busy with parenthood and politics, I was a very proud member of the Rotary club in Oldmeldrum and every year, through a variety of activities, we raised thousands of pounds to support both local charities and international charities. We supported the efforts of Rotary International to eradicate polio around the world. We also embarked on many other projects locally, which were also able to gain significant financial backing from other partners. We ran mock job interviews at the local school; we organised cookery and music competitions for young people; we sent young people on outward-bound educational courses, so that they could understand their own potential as individuals; and the more green-fingered among our number tended to the community garden and cut the grass at the old folks home. In addition, thanks to the combined efforts of Rotary clubs across the north-east, we put on the Haddo House egg hunt, which I think is still the single largest free public event in the north-east of Scotland and which is beloved by generations across the region.
Individual effort is crucial, but the organisations are important because they match an individual’s willingness and energy with the opportunity to contribute positively. That is good for the organisations and it is most obviously good for the broader community, but—as we have heard —it is also excellent in many respects for the individuals because of what they get out of such activity. To all the volunteers and those who help to enable volunteering, I add my heartfelt and sincere thanks for everything they do and all they contribute to the common good.
There is a long and proud tradition of volunteering. We are all used to the idea of the third sector and charities providing services in our communities with the help of volunteers, and with or without the help of Government money. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the idea that the Government should help to encourage and enable individuals to step in and help to do things that the state cannot, or that private business will not or perhaps should not.
When we think of volunteering in proximity to the public sector, it is probably of something like the Royal Voluntary Service running the cafés in our local hospitals, as my mother used to do at the Western General in Edinburgh, or perhaps a community transport service helping people to get around the area, rather than filling in for the full-time professional agencies of central or local government. We can also think more broadly of the work of the retained firefighting service or special constables.
The Royal National Lifeboat Institution, for example, has always relied on volunteers. The work of first responders in assisting the ambulance service across rural parts of the country has helped to save countless lives in situations where minutes really can be the difference between life and death. Volunteering brings a great deal to the table that central and local government can never be able to do and should never be expected to do. It is about making sure that to get the added benefit, we help people to have the time to give and offer them suitable outlets through which to give it.
The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central made some extremely good suggestions on how volunteering could be incentivised. I think we would possibly all agree that we live in a society where many people are underworked and many others feel greatly overworked. A lot can be done in that space to assist more people who would welcome the opportunity to volunteer.
For some time, we have had the right to ask for flexible working, even if there is no entitlement to always get it. That right at least exists, but it is much harder for many small businesses or small and medium-sized enterprises to support an employee in that, no matter what other benefits that individual might get and how they might grow in the process. Even something as basic as offering greater support to employees to allow those who wish to volunteer or who need to work unconventional hours to do so—whether that is for volunteering in its purest sense or for caring responsibilities for family, a child or an older relative—could transform not just the economy, but the quality of life for millions and millions of people.
It seems incredible that until comparatively recently, someone claiming unemployment-related benefits could have been penalised through the withdrawal of benefits if they volunteered for more than 16 hours, when a volunteering position could have given them purpose and helped to build skills and confidence, which would help everybody. I am delighted that the rules have changed. Benefit claimants are now able to have their volunteering commitment recognised, and that is allowed without the penalties that existed previously.
However, there is still more to do in this space. I find myself asking why some of the most experienced in our workforce find it so difficult to scale back their hours as they approach retirement without jeopardising their position in the workplace or future pension entitlements, depending on the rules of the schemes that apply to them. Not only does continuing with such inflexibility create a disorientating shock for some people when they eventually leave the workplace on retirement, but it deprives people of the opportunities to find future roles in communities, try things out and transition to what life at the end of a career and after work might look like. It deprives people of the opportunity to transition smoothly into the post-work environment, which would enable them to do something worth while, while also helping others to make the most of what life has to offer.
If we want to look at it this way, we have quite a big society—to use a phrase that was in vogue some years ago—but we do not make that society bigger or better by making the state smaller. We could use the power of the state to help to grow that society and allow people to get more out of their life and their contribution in work and in the community, to the great benefit of all.
In June 2021, I took part in a Westminster Hall debate on the community response to covid, and it is right that a lot of people volunteered and rushed to the fore in that crisis. It is saddening that much of that volunteering effort seems to have tailed off, because part of my hopes for building back better was certainly to build back better by harnessing the good will, commitment and community spirit that came to the fore during that time.
I will conclude today, much as I concluded then, that it is often in the worst of circumstances that we find the best of ourselves. Community and volunteering are intertwined with one another and with the understanding that each of us is part of something much greater and bigger than ourselves, and that our greatest calling in life, whatever we do, is to be called and to serve others. Thank you to our volunteers, thank you to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central for securing this debate, and I thank everybody for their time.
Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Ms Nokes, there could not possibly be a better way of spending this afternoon than taking part in a debate under your Chair. As you pointed out to me earlier, it is not just a privilege, but a massive privilege to be sitting here taking part in this debate with you in the Chair. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) for bringing us to this debate.
However, I am scandalised by every single one of the contributions so far, because the largest number of volunteers who are out today are probably volunteering for political parties, and they have not even got a mention yet. They are the people who go out in sun and rain, in foul weather and fine. They sometimes get spat at—I have been shot at on one occasion. They get abuse, and sometimes they get people giving them a thumbs up, but they do it because they believe in the political system and in democracy. We all know that not one of us would ever be here if it were not for the contributions of volunteers in our political parties up and down the country. They will be far too busy today, but I put on record on behalf of us all, I am sure, our tribute to the volunteers in our political parties who do it for no other reward than the things that they believe in and trying to make a better world and a better country, in their individual ways.
I also pay tribute to the hon. Members for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord) and for Gordon (Richard Thomson). I think we have all had the same briefing note from the Scouts, so I will not repeat anything; that would seem rather otiose, and you might rule me out of order, Ms Nokes. I disagree, however, with the Members who said that they are not going to list all the volunteers in their constituency, because I will refer to some from mine. I represent one of the poorest constituencies in the land and, one could argue, in Europe, according to some socioeconomic indicators.
The truth is that there are politicians who believe that private is always good and everything should be left to the market, and that public is bad and we should try to shrink the state. There are also those who believe that private is always bad because it is based on profit, and they want everything to be done by the state. I have never subscribed to either of those views—it is horses for courses—but I believe that the third sector is absolutely essential in making either of the other two sectors work. In fact, most of what we would consider as the welfare state—schools, hospitals and so on—sprang out of the churches and the voluntary sector originally. The NHS simply would not be able to function in most parts of the country without the support of volunteers. I do not necessarily mean people fundraising for scanners, running events locally or whatever, but all the additional bits that make the recuperative process possible for so many patients. Once they have had what they get from the NHS, they need that extra bit from the voluntary sector. If I look at my patch, organisations such as Valleys Kids have probably made more of a difference than any other organisation to the life opportunities of some of the kids in the most difficult families and parts of the country.
Wera Hobhouse
Does the hon. Member agree that the charitable sector is so good at making the most out of every penny and doubling and tripling the amount invested by capturing the volunteering effort? However, they need a bit of seed funding and not to always be under threat of that funding being cut.
Sir Chris Bryant
Absolutely. One of the difficulties comes when they end up with a memorandum of understanding, or some kind of contract with the local authority, or the local health board as we have in Wales—it is a different structure from England. They are then effectively part of the state sector, which makes them less flexible and less able to adapt to situations around them. That has been a worrying trend over the past 20 to 25 years. Maintaining that sustainability for them is the real challenge. That is one of the problems facing Valleys Kids at the moment: trying to make sure that they have a strong financial future.
There is also Sporting Marvels. Sometimes we refer to “charities”, which is quite a strict definition. But actually, lots of people volunteer for things that are not charities, but that, none the less, have a charitable end result, such as all the sporting bodies in my patch. That includes people who turn up as coaches on a Saturday and a Sunday morning for the football teams or for Ferndale rugby club. I will not go through all the rugby clubs in the Rhondda, but I am a patron of Ferndale rugby club, which has its presentation dinner in a few weeks.
So many of these organisations do not get any financial support from the state. Many do not even get charitable status and, for them, it is an even more complicated process. As has already been alluded to, the rules about what people can do—quite understandably, if they are working with children and so on—are onerous, complicated and difficult. Having done work on acquired brain injury, I am conscious that we want any coach working in football, rugby or cycling to have a full understanding of how the new rules and protocols work and when they should take a child off if they have had a concussion. All these things make people think twice about whether they should be engaged in volunteering. That is why the state sometimes has a role in trying to make sure that the process is as simple as possible and that the charities and all the different organisations have access to good, easy and readily understandable advice.
I will mention one other organisation, the Rhondda Polar Bears, of which I am also a patron. The charity teaches kids with a variety of different disabilities how to swim. I will probably see them later this evening at Ystrad sports centre, if I get back to the Rhondda in time.
Richard Foord
Given that the shadow Minister is a trustee of a charity, does he recognise that it can be beneficial for employers, including those in the private sector, to release staff for work in the voluntary sector?
Sir Chris Bryant
Yes—the next word of my speech was going to be “trustees”. That is a very important point. Obviously, school governors, magistrates or reservists in the armed forces have specific rules about what they can expect from their employers. Many employers are absolutely delighted to be able to support the work of their staff, although it is obviously much more difficult for those working in small companies. However, the point is made about trustees as well.
I was actually going to make a slightly different point about trustees. For all I know, it may be easy to find lots of trustees who know how to deal with the banking system or charitable law or whatever in Surrey; it is more difficult in some of the areas that most need that support. That is why organisations such as the NCVO and the Prince’s Trust have been really important in providing mentoring and support in areas such as mine in the south Wales valleys, where we would love to have more trustees. We often end up getting the same people to be the trustees of all the different charities and organisations, such as the Rhondda Arts Festival, which is coming up at the end of June. I am a trustee of that as well. Although I do not have any financial interest in that, I should declare it none the less.
There are also the individuals. Stan Power is no longer with us, but he was a veteran—he served. He took it upon himself for many years, as a member of the Royal British Legion, to make sure that anybody with whom he came into contact who had ever been in the armed forces in the Rhondda knew of every single type of support that they were entitled to claim for. He did that entirely off his own bat, but obviously with the support of the Royal British Legion. He was an absolutely wonderful man who made life-changing possibilities for dozens and dozens of people in my constituency. The more we can enable a few more of those people in every constituency in the land, the better.
I want to refer to a charity that works across the whole country, because it exemplifies the kind of problems we have at the moment, as alluded to by others, and that is Headway. The Minister knows about Headway, which is a charity that works with people who have had an acquired brain injury.
One of the great things we have done in recent years, because of the Government’s brave decision in some cases to create major trauma centres, is that we have saved the lives of many more people when they have been in an accident, many of them with brain injuries. However, getting them the quality of life that we would be able to bring them if they had full rehabilitation is very difficult. All the different therapies in hospitals are very stretched, which is often why we rely for rehab on charities such as Headway, up and down the country.
Most constituencies will have a Headway group. Headway has 1,100 volunteers helping with rehabilitation, 500 more working at setting up branches and 400 working in the retail shops. That is an important part of the network that enables people to get back a quality of life, which is important for the whole of our economy. This is not a partisan attack, but unfortunately the Government do not know how many people in the UK are living with an acquired brain injury—it is just not a known fact. We reckon it is somewhere in the region of 1.4 million, and the charitable sector probably has a better idea than others.
Headway, however, is struggling financially. Many of its branches are worrying about whether they will be able to continue, partly because of a lack of volunteers, but mostly because of a lack of finance. Rehabilitation and the kit needed is often expensive. I hope that at some point we have a major review of how charities end up with their funding, and how we can ensure that they are sustainable into the future.
Several Members have referred to the fact that volunteering is good for people. We can certainly see that in Headway. Often, the person who takes someone to their Headway group will have had a brain injury 10 years ago, was looked after and had rehab, was re-socialised, found a family of people, and then volunteered, volunteered a bit more and a bit more, got a few days’ work, and now is the full-time staff employee. That is rehabilitation and volunteering at its absolute best. We could repeat that of every other kind of charity that we have been talking about.
Volunteering is good for people. It makes them feel useful. It allows them to gain skills, especially because they might have to retrain in areas where they did not have the skills at all in the past. It re-socialises people and makes them feel happier. I note the point made about people in their retirement—I am 62 and some in the room are slightly older than I am, and perhaps thinking about what to do in retirement—and volunteering is an important part of still feeling that we have something to contribute. Often, important skills can be fed back into the community by older people.
There are problems. The significant collapse in the number of volunteers has been referred to, from one in four people of working age to one in six in the past few years, and that is problematic. In 2022, 40% of charities reported that a lack of volunteers meant that they could not progress, could not grow or could not even commit to the projects that they were already engaged in. Some areas, as I said, have found that particularly difficult, because of the financial barriers. If someone is struggling financially and economically to put food on the table for their kids, then the cost of the bus or train fare—even if it is only £2.90, £4.60 or whatever—is prohibitive. Many people will feel reluctant to ask the charity for the money, so they end up not volunteering at all. I would love it if there were some form of bank where all that need could be met. Perhaps that is a project for someone for the future—a particular charitable venture.
Local authorities have been facing enormous financial struggles. In my own patch, Rhondda Cynon Taf has found it difficult to maintain its financial commitments, let alone increase them in line with inflation, as has been needed over the past few years. That has meant that lots of charities have struggled. On top of that, people are not using charity shops so much, which has also had a knock-on effect on their income.
As I think has already been referred to, the Scouts have something in the region of 100,000 young people on waiting lists. Would it not be brilliant if we could get every single one of them into the Scouts? I am a scout from many years ago—I have a few badges, which I will not go into. We would love it if we could have more troops in the Rhondda, because there are kids who would like to do it. The same goes for the Sea Cadets and a whole series of other organisations. Those organisations give kids a sense of purpose and an idea of themselves; they provide a set of extracurricular of activities that offer a different form of learning. They give them confidence. In many ways, they are very similar to some of the creative industries. I would dearly love for the Scouts to be able to recruit far more volunteers.
I have a few final points. The first is about philanthropy. I sometimes look to other countries. On Tuesday night, I had dinner with Edward Burtynsky, a Canadian photographer and an absolutely wonderful artist. He said that in Canada, it is axiomatic that, if someone becomes a billionaire, they will become a massive philanthropist, set up a charity and give to a wide variety of different charities. That has not become the norm in the UK in the same way as it has in America, Canada and some other countries. There is still room for us to explore how we can incentivise that even more, so that it is part of our national psyche.
The second point is about companies. Several hon. Members have referred to the importance of companies being passionate about their local communities. They know that they derive their wealth from those communities, and if they want to incentivise their staff, they will want to play an important part in their local communities. Some companies have been financially strapped, because of energy costs and things like that. The more we can praise those companies that make a radical difference in their local communities, the better. Perhaps we need to think of new ways of badging and thanking them for the extraordinary things they have done.
My final point is about the role of the state in all this. At this particular moment in British politics, I sometimes feel quite depressed, because it feels as if so many parts of what we relied on in our past just do not work as well as they used to. Some people will say, “Let’s try to recreate the social fabric of the 1950s,” but I do not think that that works. The world has moved on: the internet, social media and so on have completely changed things. However, I do want to return to that sense of public engagement—the sense that we achieve far more by our common endeavour than we do by going it alone. I could make the party political point that, if we press the reset button in a general election, perhaps some of that will be achieved. But what is even more important—and politicians and the state play a role in this—is ensuring that the whole country feels engaged in the national project, and that the whole of the local community feels engaged in the local project. We cannot do that without people volunteering for the common good.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stuart Andrew)
It is a pleasure, as ever, to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes. I, too, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) for securing this important debate.
During the debate, I was reflecting on my portfolio in DCMS, and thinking that many of the things for which I have responsibility would not function were it not for volunteers up and down the country giving of their time. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) was absolutely right to mention sport; the biggest cohort of volunteers is in the sports world, and all those groups up and down the country keep our nation active. So much of the youth sector, for which I have responsibility, is run by volunteers, particularly when it comes to supporting disadvantaged young people who need extra support and mentorship. I also thought about the civil society sector. Having worked in the hospice movement, I know that there is no way that we could have raised the money we needed were it not for people giving of their time. Then there are ceremonials. The coronation was a classic example of thousands of volunteers giving their time and ensuring that that spectacular event ran incredibly smoothly.
I, too, have to mention constituency organisations, although I am terrified of leaving any of them out. There are groups such as the Live at Home schemes that look after people of an older generation; Britain in Bloom groups and litter groups that look after our environment; and of course the sporting groups, which I have mentioned. I am also proud to be part of the Guiseley Lights organisation, which puts on huge street parties every year. We are enabling charities to raise the money they need to continue their work. I thank so many of the volunteers: Clare, Jim, Caroline, Steve, Lee and Vicky. Caroline runs our prosecco stall, and I do wonder how much of it she sneaks every now and again.
I also join the hon. Member for Rhondda in thanking the political volunteers out there today. It is a good point well made. It is not easy for them at times, and I am really grateful.
I also want to mention people who support work in the health sector. Ms Nokes, I understand that your dad is a volunteer car driver enabling elderly people to get to their medical appointments, even though he is 81 years of age, which is fantastic. That is precisely why I and the Government are committed to growing volunteering, trying to give people more opportunities to volunteer and celebrating the millions of people who already make a difference by giving up their time.
I want to recognise the power of volunteering. As others have said, it is a cornerstone of our society, and I am grateful for the selflessness we see. However, quality volunteering also requires effort and support, so I also pay tribute to the people who make volunteering happen and work tirelessly with volunteers day in and day out.
As others have mentioned, this year marks the landmark 40th anniversary of Volunteers’ Week. I know all Members will join me in praising the millions of volunteers up and down the country for the difference they make. This year’s Volunteers’ Week will culminate with the second Big Help Out weekend, which gives people the opportunity to take part in volunteering in their local area, many of them for the first time. It is a fantastic way of introducing people to the benefits of volunteering. I am glad that we have been able to provide funding to enable that. I was delighted to be at the launch of the Big Help Out campaign earlier this year, and look forward to seeing even more people take part in it over the course of the weekend. I hope many hon. Members here will do so too.
However, recognising volunteers should not be limited to once a year. That is why my Department works closely with No. 10 to co-ordinate the Points of Light award, through which the Prime Minister recognises outstanding individuals who work in their community inspiring others, too. That is an essential part of telling the story of individual volunteers from around the country and the remarkable efforts they make. I encourage hon. Members to look at DCMS’s social media, where they will see some really inspiring stories.
It is not enough just to celebrate volunteering, and we certainly cannot take volunteers for granted. My Department works to strengthen our knowledge about volunteering, including what motivates people to volunteer, and, as others have mentioned, the barriers that prevent them doing so. We know that recruitment and retention is an increasing problem, particularly for small local charities. There continue to be barriers to more people becoming involved in volunteering, ranging from a lack of awareness of the volunteering opportunities that exist to simply not having enough time.
As others have said, the community life survey found that 25 million individuals volunteered at least once in the preceding years. That is great, and I am very proud of those figures, but it is true that they have been in gentle decline over the last decade. A lot of research is being carried out on why that may be and what we can do to try to reverse that trend. One such piece of research is the “Time Well Spent” report that others have mentioned, which was produced by the NCVO and funded by my Department. It is well worth looking at the findings of that research in depth. We can see from that and other studies that the nature of volunteering is shifting. Broadly speaking, people are looking for opportunities that are far more flexible, easier to start, and more connected to their communities.
That is why we are also doing things such as the national youth guarantee, which is providing to every young person, by 2025, something to do after school, an opportunity to have an experience away from home and, crucially, an opportunity to volunteer, in the hope that that will then be something that they continue to do throughout their life. A number of people mentioned the Scouts and the Guides, and I am pleased that, as part of that initiative, we have given £16 million to uniformed organisations. I am also pleased to say that new groups are being set up. We have now provided another 4,500 new places, but I recognise that there is a big waiting list. I am glad to see that we have representatives of the Scouts in the Public Gallery, because in my interactions with them, I have been inspired by their dedication and I want to see more of those opportunities for young people.
We also need to recognise and celebrate the huge number of people who support others in their community of their own volition and who might not think of themselves as volunteers. As has been said, we saw that during the pandemic, when people wanted to ensure that their neighbours were safe and got the food they needed. But a lot of that was co-ordinated through local organisations and charities, and I am grateful to them. In my constituency, I think of AVSED—Aireborough Voluntary Services to the Elderly—which did so much during that time.
I have already mentioned the importance of rewarding and recognising volunteers through the Points of Light awards and the honours system. We know that the desire to make a difference is the most important motivation for people getting involved in their communities. Beyond our work to recognise volunteers, we are providing funding and working with an extensive range of partners to ensure that there are clear entry points for volunteering. Two years ago, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central mentioned, the Know Your Neighbourhood Fund was launched, and that provides £30 million, including £10 million from the National Lottery Community Fund to directly support charities and community organisations to widen participation in volunteering and, crucially, tackling loneliness. That is happening in 27 of the most disadvantaged areas. I am thrilled that we are able to support those charities and communities in that way, in the hope that that will help us to build the infrastructure we need and create those opportunities to volunteer.
One example is the Vision for Volunteering. That is a sector-led initiative to develop volunteering in England over the next 10 years. The Government have supported the vision from its outset, sitting on its advisory board and lending our support, and funding, to take this work forward, because it recognises that the nature of volunteering is shifting and we want to help communities to adapt to that. For example, one theme of the vision is to increase equity and inclusion, ensuring that volunteering is accessible and welcoming to everyone, everywhere. I was thrilled to meet just yesterday some of the partner organisations, alongside other agencies that support civil society. We were specifically talking about the crucial role that these support organisations play in providing the infrastructure for volunteering. We are looking forward to working collectively to see what we can do to help them in what are sometimes very challenging times.
The British public’s enthusiasm for volunteering was, as I said at the start of my comments, seen very clearly at the coronation of His Majesty the King, and it was exactly that that brought about the Big Help Out. I am grateful to all those organisations for wanting to carry that programme on so that we can bring about a sustainable volunteer network.
I want to respond to some of the points that were made and particularly the request for paid leave for volunteers and trustees. I do understand where people are coming from, but as I think others have mentioned, there is a danger that that could become a problem, particularly for small and medium-sized businesses. However, we do want to see employers develop their own corporate responsibility programmes and to encourage businesses, the public sector and charities to consider the role that employer-supported volunteering can play as part of their impact on society. We do try to encourage that and show the best examples of how that actually benefits the business, often.
Others asked for reviewing and uplifting of the approved mileage allowance payment. Under that scheme, organisations are able to reimburse volunteers for using their own vehicle while volunteering. They are able to agree what reasonable out-of-pocket expenses look like. However, costs of using their own vehicle are often worked out by using His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ mileage allowance payment rules, which Treasury is responsible for setting, and apply more broadly than just to volunteers. However, I was pleased that the Government announced at the spring Budget that we will keep the 5p fuel duty cut, which I hope will help in this area.
More broadly, looking to the future and thinking about the vision for volunteering, as I mentioned earlier, my Department is working in partnership on this. It is a strategic voluntary sector initiative to lead ongoing support and development of volunteering in England. That partnership is made up of DCMS, NCVO, the National Association for Voluntary and Community Action, Volunteering Matters, the Association of Volunteer Managers, and Sport England. I am pleased to say that we have been able to provide £600,000 to fund that work, and I look forward to seeing how that develops.
Others mentioned social prescribing. As part of our national sport and physical activity strategy, we are working closely with colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care because we see social prescribing as a way of getting people more active. Volunteering will, by its very nature, be a big part of that, so we will continue to work in that area. Of course, the Department leads cross-Government volunteering policy, and will continue to do so.
The hon. Member for Rhondda mentioned philanthropy, and he is absolutely right; there is a lot that we can learn, and I am pleased to say that, as a Department, this is an area of focus. We see pockets of it where it goes well—in London and the south-east—but I want to see that much more broadly across the country, and we will continue to work in that area.
This debate has demonstrated that we all share the same ambition; we want to celebrate volunteers and what they do. I am grateful to hon. Members for highlighting those things, especially in the run-up to the 40th anniversary of Volunteers Week, so that we can celebrate and recognise the contribution of the millions of people who dedicate their time and support their communities.
Jo Gideon
It has been an absolute pleasure serving under your chairmanship, Ms Nokes. I think that we have had a very positive debate. We have all had the opportunity to praise some of our local charities, volunteers, and organisations that work with volunteering. As the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) said, volunteers come in all shapes and sizes.
I have to slightly disagree with the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Richard Foord) about the mileage allowance. Some people can afford to pay for their own petrol, or diesel or whatever, but if they cannot, that should not be a barrier to them being able to volunteer when they want to.
We have covered a huge range of topics, and I do not want to delay people longer, so I will just say that this has been enormously positive. To misquote Dylan Thomas, I do not plan to go gentle into that good retirement, so this is something that I will continue to fight for into the dusk. I very much thank everybody who has taken part. And thank you, Ms Nokes, for your chairmanship.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the contribution of volunteers.