Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Health to make a statement on the steps the Government have taken to ensure the safeguarding of former Winterbourne View residents.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Lamb)
The review into the abuse at Winterbourne View hospital, established by my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), set out 14 actions to transform care and support. Central to the review is ensuring the safety and well-being of these very vulnerable people. I shall publish the final report before the end of November.
When Winterbourne View closed, NHS commissioners put in place independent clinical and managerial supervision and commissioned an independent assessment of every patient. The Care Quality Commission worked with commissioners to relocate Winterbourne View patients to suitable alternative placements.
In March, the Department of Health review team commissioned NHS South of England to follow up the 48 patients who had been in Winterbourne View, and there was a further review in September. The first review in March revealed that 19 former patients were the subject of safeguarding alerts. In response to this, officials asked commissioners to take appropriate action and confirmed that a follow-up would take place in six months’ time. I was extremely concerned to be informed that this follow-up had revealed that there are current safeguarding alerts for six former patients. I am assured that these are all being followed up to ensure the safety and well-being of the individuals concerned. That is extremely important. Furthermore, the September follow-up exercise revealed that 32 Winterbourne patients were now living in the community in their own family homes, in supported living or in a residential care home, with 16 still living in hospital settings.
The priority is to improve commissioning to develop the good local services that will prevent people from being sent to hospital inappropriately. We are working closely with the NHS Commissioning Board, the Local Government Association and directors of social services on what support local services need. Although a small number of people will need hospital treatment, we expect to see—and, indeed, must see—a substantial reduction in the number of in-patients.
We intend to strengthen safeguarding arrangements to prevent and reduce the risk of abuse and neglect of adults in vulnerable situations. Where there are safeguarding concerns, the local safeguarding adults boards need to be closely involved. The boards will be placed on a statutory footing for the first time, ensuring a co-ordinated approach to local adult safeguarding work.
The Government will put in place the necessary legislation for safeguarding adults boards, and local councils should bring clarity to their roles and responsibilities, but it is the responsibility of the care provider—we must remember this—to ensure a culture of safety, dignity and respect for those in their care, including stopping abuse before it happens. Those providers must be held to account for the care that they provide.
Liz Kendall
I thank the Minister for his statement, but there remain serious concerns about whether the Government have taken all necessary steps to ensure that the former patients of Winterbourne View are now receiving safe and effective care. Last night’s “Panorama” programme revealed that 19 patients have been subject to safeguarding alerts since leaving Winterbourne View. Not all those alerts mean that someone has been harmed, but “Panorama” said that one was due to an incident of assault and another had resulted in a criminal investigation. Is that an accurate reflection of the picture?
Have the families of all patients with a safeguarding alert been given the full details? What specific action has been taken as a result of the alerts, and can the Minister guarantee that the patients in question are all no longer at risk? Can he also guarantee that all local commissioners responsible for all the former Winterbourne View residents now have a proper plan in place to ensure that they receive good-quality care?
Has the Care Quality Commission recently inspected all the providers that former Winterbourne View patients were moved to, and are the Government confident of the CQC’s findings? Last night’s programme raised particular concerns about Postern House, which the CQC inspected in January this year following the Winterbourne View scandal. The CQC said that it met all the essential standards of quality and safety, and that suitable arrangements were in place to ensure that people were safeguarded against the risk of abuse, yet “Panorama” revealed a number of problems at Postern House over several years and the fact that a former Winterbourne View patient had a safeguarding incident there in June this year. Is the Minister confident that all patients currently in Postern House are safe from the risk of abuse?
The Minister rightly said that responsibility for the care of people with learning disabilities lies with providers, commissioners and the CQC, but it is Ministers who set policy and have responsibility for ensuring that it is implemented. The Government have a particular responsibility to ensure that former Winterbourne View patients never have to suffer from such appalling abuse again. Organisations such as Mencap are also very concerned that the Government are not moving quickly or strongly enough to end the practice of sending patients with learning disabilities to long-stay institutions far away from their family and friends.
The Minister must answer our questions about whether former Winterbourne View residents are all now guaranteed safe care, and he must urgently bring forward proposals to reform learning disability services properly for the future.
Norman Lamb
I thank the shadow Minister for asking the urgent question. The view is shared on both sides of the House that what “Panorama” exposed is utterly intolerable and has to come to an end. I am absolutely determined that when I make the Government’s final response by the end of November, it will be robust and clear so that everybody understands what has to happen.
When I came into my job, I heard briefings about the whole saga and how long it has gone on. For years and years, public money has been spent on putting people into inappropriate settings, often putting them at risk of abuse. That is a national scandal, and it has to end. I will be very clear about ensuring that we take robust and effective action.
The hon. Lady is absolutely right that Ministers are here to set policy, and that is what I intend to do. Since my appointment, I have been working to ensure that we set the right policy to protect vulnerable individuals. She is right that they must never suffer from abuse. Of course, there is always the risk of rogue individuals who behave very badly, and they must be dealt with through the criminal law, as has been seen with Winterbourne View staff. I have also made the point that the corporate owners of such organisations must be held to account for things that go on in their homes if those homes have been neglected. I want to meet the parents of those who were at Winterbourne View to hear from them directly, and I will seek to make arrangements for that.
The hon. Lady mentioned the 19 safeguarding alerts. In fact, that intolerable figure was in March but by September, the number was down to six. She is right, of course, that not every safeguarding alert means that something awful is happening. It means that concerns have been raised, and it is important that people raise their concerns. I assure her that I will do everything I can to end this scandal and ensure that we have proper safeguarding arrangements in place.
Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)
Will my hon. Friend assure the House that the alerts are being actioned and dealt with? We know that on previous occasions, South Gloucestershire council and Avon and Somerset police received countless alerts, but if it had not been for the BBC and “Panorama”, we would never have found out about this issue. When I saw the programme last night, I was appalled that patients can be moved hundreds of miles without their families—and their parents in particular—being told. I thought that was an outrage.
Norman Lamb
My hon. Friend raises extremely important points. First, we must ensure that the alerting system works effectively. We are putting safeguarding boards on a statutory basis. That is important and means that all key players will have a part in ensuring that adults in vulnerable situations are kept safe. We must ensure that alerts always work effectively in the future.
My hon. Friend’s point about individuals being placed a long distance away from home is of absolute concern. It strikes me that if someone is placed far away from their community, in what is effectively a closed setting, conditions are created for potential abuse to take place. That has to stop.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Does the Minister agree that there can be no excuse for abuse in any setting at any time? Is there not a profound problem that many of our most vulnerable citizens up and down the country are looked after by people who are poorly trained, poorly qualified and paid the minimum wage for 12-hour shifts? Is that the underlying root of this problem?
Norman Lamb
First, it is important to make it clear that many highly dedicated care workers provide fantastic quality care for elderly people and other adults in vulnerable situations. However, the hon. Gentleman is right to address the fact that we need to raise standards across the board. We are working with Skills for Care to ensure there is a code of practice to implement proper standards, and that minimum training standards apply across the sector. We must also ensure that we keep people in good health and well-being in their own homes as much as possible, reducing the number of people who go into care and nursing homes. That will make it possible to spend more on those people who do need to go into a home, and ensure that standards are maintained at the right level.
Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) (LD)
As we learnt from Winterbourne View, the absence of safeguarding alerts is not necessarily a sign that everything is okay. Winterbourne View was receiving £3,500 a week for some of its residents, yet it was delivering very poor care and allowing its staff to abuse. In future, can we ensure that the contracts let by social service departments and the NHS are written not by the provider, but by those who are buying the service in the first place to get the right quality of care?
Norman Lamb
I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for his work in this area. He draws attention to the fact that there is a serious issue about the quality of commissioning and the work done by primary care trusts and, in some cases, local authorities. Too often, people seem to be placed in those settings and then to all intents are purposes forgotten about, which is not acceptable. Standards of commissioning and ensuring that contracts contain the right terms are extremely important.
Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that this whole dreadful saga—which he rightly describes as a national scandal—underlines the importance of self-advocacy for vulnerable people? In his legislation and any guidance that may follow from it, will he take steps to ensure that the voices of these most vulnerable people will be heard directly wherever possible?
Norman Lamb
The right hon. Gentleman makes an extremely valuable point, and I would be happy to discuss that with him further. Too often in the past there has been a paternalist approach in which others have decided what is best for individuals. Hearing the voice of people with learning disabilities is absolutely central to getting this matter right.
Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)
People who watched “Panorama” will know that a tall, flame-haired young man named Simon Tovey was one of the patients who suffered horrific abuse. His mother, Ann Earley, is my constituent, as is Simon, who has now returned to a lovely community care home in West Lavington. Mrs Earley believes that the views of parents in particular were not heard under the system—they knew for years the problems pertaining to Simon’s care. What reassurance can the Minister give to Mrs Earley, and the House, that the views of parents and other responsible adults will be included when seeking to avoid these tragedies in the future?
Norman Lamb
It struck me when I listened to the story of that family that I would like to meet them if they are interested in having that discussion. Just as it is essential that people with learning disabilities have their say, it is critical that the family is involved in the discussions before the commissioning takes place, so that they are partners in the decisions that are taken in respect of those individuals.
Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)
Can the Minister reassure the House that there are sufficient inspectors to go around those establishments during the day, during the evening and at night to ensure that standards are maintained?
Norman Lamb
Inspections are essential to ensure that we identify where problems exist. The role of the Care Quality Commission is critical in that respect. We need to do more to open up those establishments to public view. One role that the new local HealthWatch can take is to go into care homes, nursing homes and so on to see for itself. The more there is a culture of openness, the less likely it is that abuse will take place.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
I commend to my hon. Friend the work of organisations such as the Swindon Advocacy Movement, which does so much work not only to advocate for service users, but to train volunteers, so that more adults with learning difficulties can stay in the communities in which they live, work and thrive. In that way, the nightmare scenario of Winterbourne View can be avoided in future.
Norman Lamb
I absolutely commend the work of the organisation to which the hon. Gentleman refers and would be interested to hear more about it. The scandal is that so many people over so many years have been put into institutions and ended up there for years when their care would be much more appropriate for their needs if it took place in their communities through supported living or in a care home. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow) mentioned, the extraordinary thing is that we were spending public money—on average, £3,500 per patient in Winterbourne View—to put people at risk of abuse. Often, an appropriate care package costs less than that, and gives the individual the care they need in their own community.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
I have raised with the Minister and his predecessor the problem that, often, the responsible authority does not know where people are placed. Families might have died since the placement, and yet there is no national audit of placements of people with learning disabilities, who are often placed a long way from their home. When the Minister returns to the House in November, will he ensure that there is an audit of where people are placed so that we can track them properly?
Norman Lamb
I shall certainly consider the hon. Lady’s point and am happy to discuss it further with her. At the end of the day, we must ensure that people in highly vulnerable situations are adequately protected. I want to ensure that all the steps we take are aimed at that goal.
Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con)
The Minister has mentioned raising the standard and quality of care providers. Will he consider the introduction of a starred grading system for care providers, so that we have absolute transparency on how well they are performing, and so that we know the most excellent care providers and the worst?
Norman Lamb
My hon. Friend raises an important point. One thing we are doing on the NHS Choices website is having quality indicators for every care home, nursing home and so on. That means that any individual looking for a care home for a loved one will be able to find out much more about the quality of the care that an organisation provides. In due course, the website will include user reviews, so that people who have experienced care in those homes will have their voices heard. That openness of information could have a transformational effect in driving up standards.
Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)
It beggars belief that some of the vulnerable adults who were subjected to the most appalling and horrific abuse at Winterbourne View were moved to other providers where they were either abused—according to the “Panorama” allegations—or at risk of further abuse. Will the Minister reassure me that all local commissioners responsible for each of the former Winterbourne View residents have a proper plan in place to guarantee that they are now receiving safe and effective care?
Norman Lamb
I share the hon. Lady’s view on what has happened. We must make absolutely certain that every commissioner is held to account. My understanding is that proper arrangements are in place for all those individuals, but I will continue to monitor the situation to ensure that that remains the case. We must be alert to the interests of the 48 residents who were in Winterbourne View, but we must also focus our minds on the 1,500 people who are in settings of that sort—assessment to treatment centres—often for years. The interests of all those individuals are important.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
To put it bluntly, after all this, is the Minister still confident in the CQC and does he believe that it is fit for purpose?
Norman Lamb
I tend to the view that we have had too many changes of regulator over a number of years, and that continuity would be a good thing. An assessment of the CQC earlier this year indicated that it was on the right track. I have met the new chief executive and am reassured by the plans he has in place. It is seductive to believe always that it is an attractive proposition to abolish an organisation and set up a new one, but is there any more chance that a new organisation will be better? Let us therefore make the CQC work properly.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
I welcome the Minister’s response—he is sincere in his desire to address these issues. Does he recognise the important role of whistleblowers? Does he have any information on concerns raised by whistleblowers in respect of the alternative provision before Winterbourne View patients were transferred?
Norman Lamb
The role of whistleblowers is central. Importantly, the Government have funded a whistleblowing helpline, which is available to any worker in the care sector—it covers all care homes. It is important that any worker at any stage feels they can raise their concerns with the relevant authorities so that they are properly investigated. What happened with the whistleblower at Winterbourne View was not acceptable, because their concerns were not taken up effectively.
Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)
I welcome the Minister’s statement. On inspection, can he clarify what provision exists for inspectors to speak to patients? How will that be further enhanced?
Norman Lamb
I am sure that inspectors can speak to patients, and that they routinely do so, but I will check on the important point the hon. Gentleman makes. We mentioned earlier the views of those with learning disabilities and their families, but it is essential that the regulator hears directly from them of their potential concerns.
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
I am not sure that the Minister has made his position clear. Is it his intention to end the appalling practice whereby vulnerable people can be transported to establishments hundreds of miles away from their home town at the whim of the authorities and without the knowledge and consent of their families?
Norman Lamb
I have tried to be clear on my views on what has been happening—it has been going on for years. As I have said, the fact that someone is sent 200 miles away from home creates the conditions in which abuse is more likely than if they are in their own community. I want that to end—I want to be as clear as I can that that is a national scandal that needs to be brought to an end.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his comments. I also watched the “Panorama” programme last night and was horrified. According to the local council and the Minister, changes have been made. Will he confirm that the lessons learned will be conveyed to the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to ensure that this terrible abuse never happens again anywhere in the UK?
Norman Lamb
The hon. Gentleman makes an essential point. Wherever people are, they must be protected from potential abuse and benefit from high standards of care. I will give him my absolute assurance that we will work closely with the devolved Administrations to ensure that people receive that benefit, wherever they are in the UK.
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)
I heard the Minister’s earlier answer on the importance of whistleblowing, but will he set out what further steps he will take to encourage staff to whistleblow and to ensure that, when they come forward with concerns, they do not suffer retribution as a result?
Norman Lamb
The legal framework is satisfactorily in place to protect whistleblowers who raise their concerns with the relevant authorities, but this is about culture. We must do everything we can to ensure that providers encourage their staff to raise concerns—internally first, if possible, but with other authorities, if necessary—whenever they see abuse or neglect taking place. We must also encourage individuals to feel safe about raising concerns. The framework of protection is there for individuals to do that.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
There are two problems. First, the “out of sight, out of mind” mentality has meant that thugs have been able to get away with terrible behaviour in care homes. Secondly, despite the enormous advances in ischaemic heart disease, cancer and diabetes, for example, the amount of money invested every year to find solutions and treatments for mental health conditions remains very poor.
Norman Lamb
On the first point, I agree with the hon. Gentleman that these closed settings and institutions too often create the conditions for abuse to take place. It is all the more important, then, to get the regulation right for the sake of those individuals who have to be in such institutions—a minority have to be there for their own safety or that of the public. On the second point, he raised the general issue that for a long time—probably, it has always been the case—mental health has been a poor relation to physical health in terms of the amount of money spent on research and how the money flows within the NHS. I seek to address that.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
In Bristol, we face the closure of care homes, while south Gloucestershire is outsourcing the in-house home care teams. Following the case of Winterbourne View, which is just outside my constituency, there is a lack of confidence in the area in the private sector. What can the Minister do to reassure people that it is safe to place vulnerable relatives in private sector care homes?
Norman Lamb
First, abuse is unacceptable and horrifying wherever it takes place, whether in the public sector or the private sector. The review that followed Winterbourne View being exposed revealed poor standards of care in too many places in both the public and private sectors. We need to be clear on that. Secondly, I have questioned whether there is adequate corporate accountability and whether adequate rules and regulations are in place to ensure that accountability. If people are making a profit out of providing care, they have to be held to account for the standards of that care.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
May I raise with the Minister my concerns about the relaxation of checks on people who work with vulnerable adults and children, as set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012? As a new Minister, will he undertake to look at the specific provisions in that Act and see whether he is satisfied that our most vulnerable people are protected?
Norman Lamb
I am happy to discuss the matter further with the hon. Lady. It is clear, though, that when a care home provider seeks to recruit a member of staff to work with people in a care home setting, they have to—[Interruption.] They are obliged in law to carry out criminal records checks on people who work within that setting. I repeat, however, that I am happy to discuss the matter with the hon. Lady and to look again at the issues.
Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
As the Minister has made clear—his commitment is coming through—the care provider is key. As he moves forward, will he look at whether there is any disparity between private and public sector provision? In cases that I am aware of, there has been a qualitative difference: vulnerable individuals are not being looked after as well as they ought to be by some private sector providers.
Norman Lamb
We probably all know from our constituencies of fantastic private sector care providers that provide a fantastic quality of care to older or younger adults with disabilities and so on, so we must be careful not to condemn the whole sector. My clear view is that wherever there are low standards of care it is unacceptable. But let us remember Mid Staffordshire hospital, where hundreds of people lost their lives unnecessarily owing to poor standards of care. It can happen in both public and private sectors. We must find it intolerable in both.