(2 years ago)
Lords ChamberThis text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Ballot Secrecy Act 2023 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
My Lords, in moving Amendment 1, I shall speak also to my Amendments 2, 3 and 4. I am pleased to say that the Government are supporting the Bill introduced by my noble friend Lord Hayward. In doing so, we have tabled Amendments 1 to 4 to address issues with the drafting of the Bill, to ensure that the provisions are proportionate and to avoid any unintended consequences. The Government have worked with my noble friend in preparing the amendments and I am grateful for his support and expertise in resolving these matters.
My noble friend’s Bill arises from concerns over so-called family voting; that is, family members accompanying voters into a polling booth in a polling station for the apparent purpose of influencing or guiding how they cast their vote. I draw noble Lords’ attention to the report published by Democracy Volunteers on the May 2022 elections, which highlighted instances of this practice. It was reported that staff in polling stations were reluctant to intervene when they saw it occurring. These findings are clearly a cause for concern.
We have listened to the concerns raised by noble Lords on this issue at Second Reading. The Government share these concerns and are committed to safeguarding our democracy against those who would harm it. We consider it important to ensure that there is clarity in the law on this issue, and that presiding officers in polling stations have confidence to challenge inappropriate behaviour where it occurs.
I will now set out the details of changes made by the amendments. Amendment 1 proposes a new clause which replaces the current Clause 1 and makes changes to the wording of the offence provisions in the Bill as currently drafted. Under the new clause, a person would commit an offence if they are with a voter in a polling booth and/or are near a polling booth when that voter is in that booth, with the intent of influencing that person to vote in a particular way or to refrain from voting.
The amendments are drafted to avoid the offence criminalising innocent behaviour, particularly where two voters are in a polling booth but only one intends to influence the other. By adding the requirement for intent, the offence as amended would capture the would-be offender and avoid capturing the victim. The amended clause provides that a formal companion who has completed the necessary paperwork, or a presiding officer assisting a disabled voter, would not be subject to the offence when acting in that capacity. This gives reassurance that disabled voters will continue to be able to have assistance when voting, where necessary.
The offences in the current draft of the Bill are described as “corrupt practice” and the penalties for them are out of step with those for existing secrecy offences in electoral law. The amendments therefore provide that a person found guilty of the offence on summary conviction will be liable to up to six months in prison or a fine, or both, creating consistency across legislation. The amendments remove from the Bill the exemption from the offence for persons aged under 18. The offence would apply if a person above the age of criminal responsibility seeks to influence a voter. I reassure noble Lords that the approach being taken is consistent with the drafting of other electoral offences and does not prevent a child accompanying a parent into a polling station.
The amendments provide that the measures apply to UK parliamentary elections and local elections in England. Under the amendments, the Bill will not now apply to local elections in Scotland and Wales, which are the responsibility of the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales, but we are making the devolved Administrations aware of our plans to update the law in this area and will encourage them to consider taking similar steps in relation to their own elections.
Amendment 2 introduces a new clause that applies the offence provisions to local elections in Northern Ireland and elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly. These elections are excepted matters and outside the competence of the Northern Ireland Assembly, and the Government consider that the new offences should apply also to these polls.
Amendment 3 makes necessary changes to Clause 2. In particular, it provides that the measures in the Bill will come into force on such a day or days to be set in regulations by the Secretary of State. This will ensure that there is sufficient time for Electoral Commission guidance to be updated and polling station officials to have training on the new offence before it comes into force.
Amendment 4 amends the Long Title of the Bill to align it with the provision made by the Bill as amended.
In conclusion, it is of fundamental importance to our democracy that voters are able to vote in secret without being coerced or having the threat of coercion. It is the Government’s view that the effect of the Bill as amended, once commenced, in combination with the existing law, is to empower presiding officers to deal with suspected offences under the Bill. This means that presiding officers will be able to ensure that voters are accompanied only by appointed companions acting in accordance with rule 39 of the parliamentary elections rules and the equivalent rules for other elections covered by the Bill, or by children under the supervision of the voter, and not by persons who may intend to influence the voter’s vote or infringe the voter’s right to vote in secret. I urge noble Lords to support these necessary amendments and I beg to move.
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, for introducing this stage of the Bill. I will be brief. At earlier stages, we debated the fact that standards matter and that they are particularly important in ensuring confidence in our voting system. Our laws need to be crystal clear and that is why the Bill is so important. It creates absolute clarity on what is and is not acceptable.
We supported the Bill at Second Reading and continue to do so. It is really good to see that the Government took the concerns raised earlier very seriously, brought forward amendments, which we strongly support, and will now support the Bill and enable it to move forward. We need to make sure that we have good, strong laws and an understanding of exactly what is acceptable when people vote in a polling station. We wish the Bill well and, like the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, we thank the Minister for her attention and for improving the Bill.
I thank all noble Lords for their contributions but mainly for their support for what I consider a small but very important Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Rennard, was absolutely right: clarification is important in these matters. My amendments clarify and that is important. It is also important to ensure that we have no unintended consequences that would cause trouble, possibly to disabled people and through a lack of understanding of when children can enter the polling booth, et cetera.
I thank all noble Lords so much for their support. I hope we will get this Bill through as quickly as possible. Again, I urge all noble Lords to accept these amendments on behalf not only of myself and the Government but of the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, whom I thank for bringing the Bill to the House in the first place. As I said, it is an important Bill and I thank him for the work he has done with us on it.
“Section 62C (influencing voters at polling booths)”” |
(1 year, 8 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesThis text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Ballot Secrecy Act 2023 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr McCabe.
I thank the noble Lord Hayward for sponsoring this important Bill in the other place and I congratulate him on securing its swift progress through to its Commons stages. I congratulate the hon. Member for Peterborough on his work in this area and on the case he made for the Bill this morning, which was very good and a handy way to start the discussion.
This is a short but important Bill for the integrity of our elections and our democracy more widely. As was covered during debates in the other place—they are very much worth a read, and it was helpful that the hon. Gentleman brought them into this debate, because some of those contributions were excellent—it is crucial that our democratic process is free from abuse and intimidation. That was the spirit of the 1872 Act, 151 years ago, which curtailed many of the terrible practices that occurred in elections before its passing. As was explained in the other place, however, a clear and identifiable problem remains with the Act as it stands: it does not give presiding officers the right tools to tackle the problem of people being compelled to vote one way, or not at all, by others.
It is unacceptable that such practices still occur. The intimidation of voters is contrary to all our democratic principles, but the law as it stands lacks clarity on the matter. That has been acknowledged by the Electoral Commission, which it is helpful to note. There is therefore clearly a case for changing the legislation and making such practices an offence. The Bill will do exactly that.
I associate myself with the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood about a bigger piece of work to consolidate our electoral law in one place. The Law Commission report is a good starter. Those points were well made, and I share them.
Important reassurances were given in the other place—I am sure the Minister will reiterate them—about disabled voters continuing to have any assistance they need to vote, where necessary. That practice, which is right and proper, will not be impacted by the Bill. Last week, I took part in an event—as did the Minister—organised by the My Vote My Voice campaign, which aims to improve participation in voting by adults with learning disabilities and/or autism.
I have had similar such conversations about voting with people with Usher syndrome, those who are deaf and blind more generally, and those who are blind. They all say the same thing: they want hurdles to voting lowered so that they can vote with greater confidence. Happily, the provisions in the Bill do not impair that, but there is something to be said for going above and beyond the Bill, building out from it to ensure that the right technologies are available or that there is staff training. The hon. Member for Peterborough also talked about staff training and how—including under the Elections Act 2022—there should be more training on how to ensure that people living with disabilities can vote independently. We would not then have to worry about another person being there, because the assistive technologies are there—those exist, and that is what such electors want. I hope we build out from this legislation in that way.
To conclude, it is important that we have good, strong law in this area, to provide a clear understanding of what is and what is not acceptable practice at a polling station. The Opposition support the Bill and look forward to its timely passing.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe.
I am pleased to say that the Government also support the Bill, which is being sponsored by my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough. We are grateful for his efforts and work in this regard. I join him in paying tribute to Lord Hayward, who has been an absolute stalwart in pushing forward this important agenda and ensuring that the Bill is before us today. He is joined in the Public Gallery by a number of others with interests in this area, including Councillor Tanner and Councillor Peter Golds.
My hon. Friend’s Bill arises from concerns over so-called family voting, which we have discussed, which is when family members or others accompany voters into a polling booth in a polling station for the apparent purpose of influencing or guiding how they cast their vote. The Government share the concerns expressed about the issue and we are committed to safeguarding our democracy against those who would harm it. That is why we are supporting the Bill.
I will run through the clauses briefly, but I do not seek to detain the Committee for too long. Clause 1 makes a number of important changes. As my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough explained, it outlines that a person commits an offence if they are with a voter in a polling booth, or near it, but it also sets out the reasons why people would not be committing an offence in appropriate instances, which have already been outlined—with those who need assistance or are disabled.
As the hon. Member for Nottingham North said, both of us in the past few days have been to events—I am grateful to him for supporting and helping to organise an event last week—at which the importance of greater participation and greater involvement in the democratic process was clear. Those events aim to encourage and support those who need additional assistance, which is a vital part of the electoral system, although we must also ensure that we can do the things that my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough is requiring under the Bill.
I hope the hon. Gentleman can see some of the changes that are being introduced in May, particularly with regard to people with sight loss and trying to provide a greater range of options and technology to support them, as a step forward and part of that broad agenda.
I certainly support the good intentions of the Bill, but I seek clarification. How would election officials—returning officers—demarcate somebody who was going about their normal business? I know this will be reflected across the Committee Room, but if my wife and son came along, quite innocently, when I was voting and we went our separate ways, how would that natural family event be demarcated from somebody coercing or applying undue influence at the ballot box?
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments because he raises an important point, which is: how will we interpret the legislation? Clause 3, which my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough has outlined, provides that additional guidance will need to be put in place to give greater clarity for those who are running individual polling booths. That might not be their day job, and they might come from another part of a local authority and might be taking part in only that one electoral event, so it is right that there will be interpretation and guidance with respect to the Bill. It will be for the Electoral Commission and others to provide that as part of the overall process. Hence, clause 3 outlines the approach we suggest.
Before I come to clause 3, let me refer to clause 2.
When the Government produce that guidance, would it not make sense for it to say that when two adults were going to a polling booth together, they would need to be doing so in circumstances whereby they were, for example, giving assistance to a disabled person? Therefore, the presumption would be that everyone should go separately, rather than there being a need to prove intent, because it is always difficult to know what is going on in someone else’s mind.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her suggestion. This exchange is highlighting some of the challenges around the level of prescription that needs to be in the process versus the level of discretion. That is one reason that we legislate in this place and a separate body provides interpretation.
The ultimate decision about whether things are appropriate or not appropriate in individual polling booths is down to the presiding officer in that polling booth. Presiding officers will take decisions based on the law and the guidance around the law, and the situation on the ground. I have been the elections Minister for only a few months, but I can see that there is an incredible amount of legislation and guidance in this area. That legislation and guidance provide significant prescription—it is important that there is consistency and clarity across the country when electoral events happen—but equally, guidance can never provide every piece of information for every scenario.
I take the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham and will feed it into our consideration, but it will be for the Electoral Commission to provide guidance and further information.
The Minister will be glad to hear that the interventions have inspired another question from me. Will he confirm that the guidance is to be drawn up by the Electoral Commission? If so, the commission will be guided or influenced by the Hansard report of the Committee’s proceedings and the conversations we have had. However, after listening to the interventions that have been made from both sides of the Committee, it strikes me that a lot of pressure is being put on returning officers to interpret events. The Law Commission has been clear in its reports that the pressure on returning officers is increasing and the guidance is increasingly fragmented. We might be reaching a point at which the Elections Act is going to add to those complications.
Does the Minister have any concerns that encouraging people to be returning officers might be a challenge going forward, given their legal responsibilities, and the pressures of applying the law and interpreting events in polling stations? Indeed, I was not registered to vote at the last polling station I went to; I went with my partner. There were elections in Scotland and none in my part of England at the time. I think I jokingly said to him, “Vote Labour.” Can the Minster clarify that would not be a breach of the law? I am quite confident that he did not go and vote Labour.
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments; she raises an important point. The guidance will be drawn up by the Electoral Commission in the normal way. As part of that process, there will be opportunities for people, including from outside this Committee, to make their views known. Ensuring that there are sufficient people to support both local and general elections is a long-term challenge within local government. Finding people to staff polling stations has been a general challenge for a number of years.
I have been talking to the Association of Electoral Administrators about the issue, and I spoke with Solace—the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives—only last Thursday. My colleagues and I will continue to do that. There are several challenges, but we are also looking at alternatives and ways to mitigate those issues. Local authorities are putting a huge amount of work into the preparations for May to ensure that the right number of staff is available, whether they are employed by the individual local authority or elsewhere in the normal way.
I hope that the guidance will provide clarity on some of those examples. I am a relatively smaller-state Conservative, but I recognise that, in certain parts of the law, it is important that there is sufficient proscription about what is happening. There should be sufficient clarity on the guidance, and enough consistency around the country for there to be no suggestion of a problem. I am sure that the Electoral Commission will read Hansard and take note of the hon. Lady’s point.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough indicated, clause 2 will ensure that the provisions cover Northern Ireland as well as England, given that elections are excepted matters. We have already talked about clause 3 to some extent. It will give the Government the opportunity to set out the day or days on which the regulations will come into force. That is what we talked about a moment ago with regard to guidance, clarification and ensuring consistency underneath the legislation, with time to work through the process.
I turn to a couple of additional points that have not been addressed so far. In her initial intervention, the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood talked about postal votes. She will be aware that there are further changes coming in under the Elections Act 2022. They will require, for example, people to reapply for postal votes every three years. I hope she can see that there is tightening going on in this place.
The Government will always look at other challenges, issues and opportunities going forward. As the hon. Lady outlined, there is a long-standing desire on the part of the Law Commission to look at how we can make this area more clearcut. The Government will continue to discuss it, and I hope that in time we can move in that direction. I know the hon. Lady will accept that this is a significant piece of work, and we need to think it through, as and when that may be appropriate.
Finally, on the point made by the hon. Member for Caerphilly, as my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough indicated, there have been discussions with the devolved Administrations, although I am happy to provide separate information outside this Committee to answer the hon. Member’s specific question.
This is an important area of policy and an important proposal. Again, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough on bringing the Bill forward and I look forward to it going on the statute book. As we have all indicated, both in this Committee and previously, clarification of the law in this area is important. That is why the Government are supporting the Bill, and I urge other Members to do so.
I do not want to talk for too long, but I will say a few words of thanks to close. I reiterate my thanks to the noble Lord Hayward and my personal admiration for him and the way he has pushed through this Bill. I also thank Councillor Tanner, who has been a source of advice and support on this, and thank all colleagues for serving on this Bill Committee, as well as the officials. Particular thanks go to the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood, who was one of the first to volunteer for this Committee. She shares my passion for these issues.
I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate. The hon. Members for Caerphilly and for Weaver Vale, and my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham made interesting points. I thank the shadow Minister, who made a good and powerful speech. The cross-party nature with which the Bill has been taken through Parliament shows this place at its best. We can produce good legislation when we all work together. Finally, I thank the Minister and the officials from his Department. This legislation is incredibly important. Today, we are upholding the integrity of our democracy.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Bill to be reported, without amendment.
(1 year, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberThis text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Ballot Secrecy Act 2023 passage through Parliament.
In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.
This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
It is a great pleasure to be at the Dispatch Box today to set out the Government’s full support for the Bill, which makes important changes to tackle so-called family voting. We have had an excellent debate, and it is a pleasure to see so much cross-party support for legislation of this kind. All of us are here because of the integrity of our democratic process. It is lovely to have consensus on issues such as this, as we sometimes do, particularly on Fridays.
The Bill seeks to enhance the integrity of voting at elections and to safeguard our democracy against those who would harm it, and I therefore welcome the progress that it has made in both Houses. Today gives us an excellent chance to see it speed its way towards the statute book. The new offence will be a hugely important addition to the various other measures, arising from the Elections Act 2022, that the Government are implementing to protect our electoral system against those who would undermine it.
As other Members have mentioned, the Government tabled a number of amendments to the Bill during its Committee stage in the other place in order to address issues with its specific drafting. Those amendments were designed to prevent the offence from criminalising innocent behaviour, particularly when two people are at a polling booth, so that only the one intending to influence the other is caught. The original drafting would have inadvertently caused the victim of the coercion to have also committed an offence. The amendments were also designed to secure exceptions for companions of disabled electors so that they could continue to be able to provide assistance if necessary. They were agreed to in the other place, and no further amendments have been tabled in either House.
It gives me great pleasure to thank all the parliamentarians who have engaged with the Bill, both in this place and the other place. I thank my noble Friend Lord Hayward, who I can see in the Gallery. He has been instrumental in driving forward the legislation by sharing his knowledge and experience on electoral matters and sponsoring the Bill in the other place. I am hugely grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Paul Bristow) for his expertise and for setting out so well—both today and in his Westminster Hall debate—the need for this important piece of legislation.
It has been a huge pleasure to hear speeches from many Members today, including my hon. Friends the Members for Darlington (Peter Gibson), for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), for Blackpool South (Scott Benton), for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) and for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr French). It falls to me to thank the Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Lee Rowley), who responded for the Government in the earlier debate, and other Members who have given this legislation the benefit of their scrutiny, including my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore), as well as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who aided the legislation along the way—it is strange not to see him in his place; we are all poorer without him.
The Minister may or may not be aware that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is celebrating his birthday tomorrow. Will she join me and everyone else in this House in congratulating him?
My hon. Friend has done me a huge service, allowing me to say a very hearty “Happy birthday” to the hon. Member for Strangford, who I also understand has tabled an early-day motion to thank Dolly Parton. I suppose it is probably quite unconventional to support an EDM from the Dispatch Box, but if you will make an exception in the spirit of the occasion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish the hon. Gentleman a happy birthday and hope that he is serenaded by Dolly Parton—I cannot think of anything better.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson) for her contribution in Committee, and the hon. Members for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith), for Caerphilly (Wayne David) and for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) for their interest in and engagement with the Bill.
I also thank my officials at the Department for Levelling Up, my private secretary James Selby, and the policy team—namely, Peter Richardson and Guy Daws—for their tireless work in supporting the Bill. I know how much effort they have put into ensuring that it proceeds smoothly. I am very grateful to His Majesty’s official Opposition, particularly the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris), for all the work that they have done to support the Bill.
The Government take the integrity of our electoral system extremely seriously. We warmly welcome the changes being made, which will make such an important contribution to strengthening the integrity of voting. The Bill will ensure that there is clarity in the law so that presiding officers have the confidence to challenge inappropriate behaviour where it occurs and to stamp down on any opportunity for coercion to take place at our elections. I therefore commend the Bill to the House.