Oral Answers to Questions

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

As I mentioned, when we undertake court closures—they are undertaken very carefully, and the Lord Chancellor does not undertake these decisions lightly—we look at court utilisation rates, and the courts that are closed are often those that are not performing in terms of capacity. On the case the hon. Lady refers to, I am happy to take it up with her and to look at any backlog or delay.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

The Government have been forced to announce a one-year delay to their £1 billion court reform programme. Many people are concerned that this programme is simply a smokescreen for sacking staff and closing courts. Will the Government take this opportunity to have a public debate about the issue and to allow Parliament to debate and scrutinise these changes?

[Lucy Frazer]

Our court reform programme is one of the most ambitious in the world. We recently held a seminar at which at least 20 other countries were represented. They talked about their reform programmes, and none of them was as ambitious as ours in streamlining, making more effective and modernising the court process. The delay in the programme is to ensure that we can efficiently and effectively manage the programme going forward.

Draft Services of Lawyers and Lawyer’s Practice (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson.

The Opposition will not seek to divide the Committee on the draft regulations. I agree with everything that the Minister said about the impact of the treaty and how the agreement will work. I just want to add one thing: as I am sure the Minister is aware, the new agreement does not make any provision to allow United Kingdom law firms to operate in Switzerland under their current structures. Some law firms will therefore face challenges and will have to amend their corporate structure. We hope that the Ministry of Justice and other Departments will work through the issues that arise from the future trade agreement with Switzerland in relation to law firms.

Draft Judical Pensions and Fee-Paid Judges' Pension Schemes (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Graham.

The Opposition will not seek a Division on this statutory instrument—we understand that it is purely a one-year extension of an existing scheme—but I wish to draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that we are quite unhappy with the way that judicial pensions have been dealt with for a number of years. The Government have tried to deal with the issue for at least four to five years. One case went to an employment tribunal, where the Government were held to have acted illegally by changing the dates and years of pension requirements. That case, which is going to the Supreme Court, deals with the concern that some judges were being paid more and would retire with a higher pension than those who had done a similar job. Basically, younger, newer judges were being discriminated against. One of the reasons the employment tribunal held that the provision was discriminatory was that younger judges were often women and members of the black and minority ethnic community. In essence, that was the main reason why the Government were found to have acted wrongly.

The Ministry of Justice and the Government are aware that there is currently an acute shortage of High Court “red” judges. One reason why is that a number of senior lawyers and practitioners are not putting themselves forward for High Court appointment. A substantial number of positions have been vacant for years and it does not seem that they will be filled in the next few years. One of the main reasons for that has been the big change in judicial pensions. In any country, for people to have confidence in the law and in law enforcement processes, we do not need just good laws; we need able and good people who can implement those laws properly. To ensure confidence, we need the best people to be our judges, tribunal panel members, tribunal chairs, district judges, county court judges and circuit judges, but they have to be remunerated properly for that to happen.

Although the Government have been carrying out consultations, the Ministry of Justice needs to sit down with the judges and have a proper discussion, so that we do not have these interim ad hoc yearly renewals. The Senior Salaries Review Body has made a number of recommendations that the Minister has not mentioned. All the Ministry is doing by extending the current provision is kicking that SSRB report even further down the road. It is important that the Ministry have that discussion with the judges and, as it does not appear to have done so, considers the SSRB’s recommendations. The SSRB has come up with some excellent recommendations, and if the Government applied their mind to them, they could probably resolve the issue a lot more quickly and smoothly.

In essence, the Ministry’s handling of the issue has not been great and there is discontent among the judiciary. A solution has been put forward. The issue of judicial pensions needs to be addressed but, as I said, we will not seek a Division on these regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

The Minister outlined legal issues dealt with by the recast Brussels regime, which has been in force since January 2015. One issue she did not mention is that when a person is one of a number of defendants, they can be joined to proceedings that are commenced in another member state where they are not domiciled if those proceedings are so closely connected that it is expedient to hear and determine them together to avoid the risk of irreconcilable judgments.

As the Minister said, the way the Brussels regime has been put into practice means that there is a seamless transfer of cases and judgments—a bit like the customs union, but for legal services. The Opposition recognise that this SI has to be tabled to ensure reciprocity, as the agreement between European Union member states and the UK on cross-border, civil and commercial disputes will no longer apply after exit day. The SI would also make provision for cases that start before exit day, but—as far as I know—the Ministry of Justice has not published an impact assessment of the draft regulations’ effect on the current system and on cases that are currently before courts.

Although the Law Society and Bar Council have been consulted, a number of bodies have reservations about the impact of these draft regulations. They are concerned, and we are concerned, about the impact that a no-deal Brexit would have on cross-border co-operation on civil justice. Trade between the United Kingdom and the European Union’s 27 countries has increased in the past 40 years, not least because of civil judicial co-operation.

One thing we are concerned about is the loss of the Brussels I framework for determining which national court has jurisdiction, and recognising where there is a choice of court clause or not between parties to the dispute. Following on from that, it provides for a near-automatic recognition allowing parties to enforce the judgment in all EU member states. It covers all judgments reached in civil and commercial matters, including contractual and non-contractual disputes, employment, insurance and consumer disputes.

Participation in Brussels I has been in four particular areas, and the impact is on four particular areas. First, it encourages cross-border trade. As it continues to grow, commercial parties will correspondingly need judgments to be enforced against counter-parties with assets in other countries. Brussels I allows them to do this easily and cheaply due to the near-automatic nature of the mechanisms. This can encourage—and has encouraged—investment in member states, and promotes the growth of UK businesses overseas. The ability to enforce judgments, or awards in the case of arbitration, in a country is often a threshold issue for businesses contemplating an investment in that country, so will be beneficial to UK businesses in the European Union, and for European Union businesses looking to continue to trade with the UK.

Secondly, Brussels I increased predictability and certainty, leading to reduced costs for businesses. Businesses have the certainty that they can enforce their rights, and that can easily recuperate assets in EU countries. This is particularly helpful for smaller businesses that do not have resources that are comparable to those of large companies.

Thirdly, Brussels I makes England and Wales attractive to litigants. Maintaining it would provide a continued incentive for parties to negotiate jurisdiction clauses in favour of the English courts. As mentioned in previous hearings, British legal services are worth about £24 billion, which will be massively impacted if we leave without a deal.

Finally, Brussels I provides an enormous amount of protection to consumers by allowing them to sue or defend themselves in the home court familiar to them without having to pay lawyers or high legal fees for that purpose.

Can I ask the Minister whether the Lugano convention has been considered? It deals with jurisdiction, recognition, and the enforcement of judgments in civil and commercial matters. It currently applies between European Union member states and Switzerland, Norway and Iceland—the European Free Trade Association area. Other non-European Union members can accede to the convention under certain conditions. We ask the United Kingdom Government to seek accession to the Lugano convention by applying to the Swiss Federal Council as soon as possible. The convention is not a European Union instrument although the European Union is party to it, so we ask the Government to make it a priority in their no-deal preparations. Will the Minister confirm if that has been considered or applied for? If not, why not?

Ms Ryan, I would like to indicate that the Opposition will be abstaining in the vote on this statutory instrument.

[The Chair]

Before I call the next speaker, I realise that not all Government Back-Bench members of the Committee are interested in this topic, but I would ask that they either work quietly or leave the room. It is not acceptable to be carrying on your own meeting from the beginning to this point in our sitting.

Oral Answers to Questions

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Edward Argar]

Reducing reoffending is a key goal of the prison system, as we set out in the White Paper. Plans such as the New Futures Network show that we are serious about this. Research published by the Ministry of Justice last year showed that prisoners who have undertaken learning activity have a significantly lower reoffending rate on release than their peers, with a one-year proven reoffending rate that is 7.5 percentage points lower. Offenders who found P45 employment in the year after leaving prison had one-year reoffending rates that were six to nine percentage points lower than similar offenders who did not find employment.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

While the total number of children in prison has declined over the years, the number of black and minority ethnic children in the prison system has remained static. How can the Lord Chancellor reassure BME communities that their children are not being disproportionately targeted?

[Edward Argar]

The shadow Minister makes an important point, building on the point made earlier by the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). I am concerned about the black, Asian and minority ethnic people in custody. As the Lord Chancellor has said, we take this matter very seriously. This runs through our response to the Lammy review and the race disproportionality work that we undertake in the Department. I would be happy to meet the hon. Lady on this topic, if she would like me to.

Draft Jurisdiction and Judgments (Family) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Civil Partnership and Marriage (Same Sex Couples) (Jurisdiction and Judgments) (Amendment Etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. We will abstain on both statutory instruments. Colleagues will be relieved to hear that most of my comments will relate to the draft family regulations; we understand the need for the draft civil partnership and marriage regulations, and I have no observations on them.

It is important to observe that the draft family regulations will ensure that the existing reciprocity between EU member states and the United Kingdom in matters pertaining to marriage, divorce, annulment, parental responsibility and maintenance no longer applies after exit day. The draft regulations make some provision for cases that start before exit day. Disappointingly, however, an impact assessment for the instrument has not been published.

We would support the draft regulations in the event of no deal, as it would be inappropriately unilaterally to continue those mechanisms. However, the scale of the loss of international functionality in family law in the event of no deal must be stressed. The lives of UK and EU27 citizens have become intertwined over the past 40 years. There are approximately 1 million British citizens living in other EU member states, and some 3 million EU nationals living in the United Kingdom. To illustrate the scale of all this, at the moment there are approximately 16 million cross-border disputes on family law matters, 14,000 international divorces and approximately 1,800 child abduction cases in the European Union.

Currently, families in the UK have the following benefits. The regulation on mutual recognition of protection orders helps to enforce orders made to protect victims of domestic violence or harassment across borders. The European enforcement order provides a streamlined procedure for enforcing uncontested claims, for example where there has been an out-of-court settlement, which is extremely useful. The maintenance regulation provides for a series of measures aimed at facilitating the payment of maintenance claims in cross-border situations.

The Brussels II regulation allows mutual recognition of divorce orders, decides the jurisdiction and forum of divorce cases, and promotes close collaboration of courts and national welfare authorities in matters of children and jurisdiction, recognition and enforcement of children orders, child protection and child abduction. Brussels II also provides an automatic system of recognition of contact orders; ensures easier enforcement of child arrangement orders, which decide where a child lives and how much time they spend with each parent; and allows cases to be transferred to the court that is best for the child and the case.

If we were to leave without a deal, we would have to fall back on the international arrangements, which are not as comprehensive. While we are pleased that the 2007 Hague convention has been signed by the United Kingdom in its own right, rather than through its European Union membership, and while I hear what the Minister said about signing up to various international conventions meaning that the situation would not be as bad, they are limited as to what they can do. Our current arrangements are far superior, very easy and straightforward.

One of the issues is that the arrangements that we will have to fall back on—the international agreements or the common law—were often something that only affluent people could have afforded. People who have lower incomes, do not have access to decent legal aid or are vulnerable adults are the ones who will suffer the most, because they do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with such cases.

[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is very worrying that no impact assessment has been published before the regulations have come before us today? Would she like to know when those impact assessments will be published?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend, which is why I alluded to that issue earlier. Without a formal assessment by the Ministry of Justice, which I hope it will carry out, we can say that under the current arrangements seamless laws are applied and we do not have to worry about getting judgments or orders. Of course, most people are able to take advantage of those arrangements, especially—to reiterate what I said earlier—people who do not have much money or assets and vulnerable adults. Those people are able to access their rights, which they will not be able to do in the same way once we exit the European Union.

Leaving the European Union without a deal will cause a tremendous amount of problems for many families and people across the United Kingdom, especially people who are not financially well off, those who are on benefits and those who cannot access legal aid. They are going to have a horrific and horrendous time.

Courts IT System

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will make a statement on the failure of the central courts IT system.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Lucy Frazer)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to update the House on the IT issues facing the Ministry of Justice over recent days.

I start by apologising to those who have been affected by the intermittent disruption, which was caused by an infrastructure failure in our supplier’s data centre. Although services have continued to operate and court hearings have continued, we know how frustrating this is for everyone. The issue is that some of our staff in the Courts and Tribunals Service, the Legal Aid Agency, probation and Ministry of Justice headquarters have been unable to log on to their computers, but we have contingency plans in place to make sure that trials can go ahead as planned.

The Prison Service has not been affected and—to correct inaccurate reporting—criminals have not gone free as a result of the problem. We have been working closely with our suppliers, Atos and Microsoft, to get our systems working again, and yesterday we had restored services to 180 court sites, including the largest ones. Today, 90% of staff have working computer systems. Work continues to restore services and we expect the remainder of the court sites to be fully operational by the time they open tomorrow morning. We are very disappointed that our suppliers have not yet been able to resolve the network problems in full.

This afternoon, the permanent secretary, Sir Richard Heaton, will meet the chief executive of Atos and write personally to all members of the judiciary. I am very grateful to all our staff who have been working tirelessly and around the clock, alongside our suppliers, to resolve the issues.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting the urgent question, and the Minister for her reply.

Members will be concerned by the failure of the multiple vital IT systems that our courts require, including systems supplied by Atos and Microsoft. Indeed, I saw those failures at first hand last week, when I visited one of the Crown courts. The chair of the Criminal Bar Association described our courts system as being “on its knees” following that failure, and blamed

“savage cuts to the MoJ budget”.

Reports in The Times suggested that there is a risk of defendants being released before trial. Will the Minister confirm whether any defendants have been released without trial? What costs has the failure incurred? Have Atos and Microsoft paid any penalties for failures on the contracts so far? Can the Minister guarantee that all costs arising from the failures will be recovered from the suppliers?

Of course, such failings do not happen in a vacuum. The Ministry of Justice has faced cuts of 40% in the decade to 2020. The Government are pursuing a £1.2 billion courts reform programme, which has seen hundreds of courts close, thousands of court staff cut and a rush to digitise many court processes. Are the plans to cut 5,000 further court staff by 2023 still being pursued?

Will the Minister explain why the Government ignored the Association of Her Majesty’s District Judges, which called for courts closures to be stopped until

“fully functioning IT systems are demonstrated to be up and running successfully”?

Finally, will the Minister now commit to a moratorium on further cuts, closures and digitisation of our courts until a Bill has been brought to the House so that we can fully scrutinise the Government’s plans?

[Lucy Frazer]

I am grateful for the opportunity to answer the points that the hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) raised. She suggested that the problems are related to cuts—they are not. They relate to an issue in a contractual supplier’s system. She suggested that defendants were being released. I hope she heard in my initial reply that that was incorrect reporting. No prisoners have been released. The prison system is different from the MOJ’s and I repeat that no prisoners have been released as a result of the problem.

The hon. Lady asked about penalties. As I said, the permanent secretary is meeting the supplier’s chief executive this afternoon and of course we will look carefully at the contracts, which include penalty clauses.

The hon. Lady suggested that the issue is related to a rush to digitisation. I would like to clarify that Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service operates on a legacy system, which needs to be updated because issues arise in it, and we are therefore investing significantly in our digitisation programme to ensure that our courts system runs well in the future.

The hon. Lady talked about cuts. I started with that and I will end with it, as she did. We are not cutting our justice system and our Courts Service. Indeed, as she rightly identified, we are putting £1 billion into it.

Draft Civil Legal Aid (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Henry. As the Minister has explained, this regulation will repeal a 2003 directive that was designed

“to improve access to justice in cross-border disputes by establishing minimum common rules relating to legal aid”

for cross-border disputes over family, commercial and civil matters, which are obviously important issues that need to be dealt with properly. As the Minister has outlined, a cross-border dispute is defined as

“one where the party applying for legal aid in the context of the directive is domiciled or habitually resident in a Member State other than the Member State where the court is sitting or where the decision is to be enforced.”

In practical terms, this is relevant for individuals who are domiciled or habitually resident in an EU member state and require legal services for proceedings in other member states, or who wish to enforce a decision or an authentic instrument in another member state.

Although it is acknowledged that some of the provisions in this regulation are procedural in nature, there is one substantive provision that will have a massive impact on access to legal aid by removing paragraph 44 of part 1 of schedule 1 in LASPO. When this statutory instrument was discussed in the other place, Lord Thomas of Gresford said that the current framework

“provides predictability and certainty for citizens and businesses”

and that

“judgments and orders obtained will be recognised and enforced…as is the case now.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 15 January 2019; Vol. 795, c. 191.]

Those benefits were recognised in the Government’s 2017 paper, “Providing a cross-border civil judicial cooperation framework”. Paragraph 7 stated:

“This framework provides predictability and certainty for citizens and businesses from the EU and the UK about the laws that apply to their cross-border relationships, the courts that would be responsible, and their ability to rely on decisions from one country’s courts in another State.”

An important feature of civil judicial co-operation at present is the mutual provision of legal aid. The legal aid directive sets minimum common rules relating to legal aid in order to improve access to justice in cross-border disputes. It applies to all such disputes over civil and commercial matters, but particularly to family law—the disposal of assets and access to children, especially across borders. This provision was incorporated into English law by LASPO, and its purpose is to ensure that people domiciled or habitually resident in EU member states are not treated more favourably after we leave the European Union than those who reside in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. EU residents who require legal services in relation to proceedings in our courts, or who wish to enforce an overseas judgment, will no longer have a right to legal aid for matters within the scope of the EU directive.

The statutory instrument uses the Henry VIII powers in section 8 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 to revoke the legislation implementing the European Union directive in UK domestic law. As far as we can ascertain, the statutory instrument would prevent European Union residents from seeking legal aid for exceptional cases that are not normally within the scope of UK domestic legal aid, but where not providing it would be a breach of retained enforceable European Union rights. Can the Minister tell us whether, after Brexit, EU residents will be able to apply for legal aid in the ordinary way for cases involving children across borders in an English court, for example, and whether legal aid would be granted if the ordinary tests of merits and means were satisfied? Does domicile or residency in the European Union disqualify an applicant who applies for legal aid in the normal way?

One of our many concerns is that the Government have not properly planned for reciprocal justice arrangements after we leave the European Union. That failure could have very damaging consequences for the people who rely on those arrangements, including those resolving complex family law cases. There are concerns across Parliament, including on the Justice Committee, that the Ministry of Justice has provided little detail or certainty about how co-operation on justice will be managed after we have left the European Union. In October, the Chair of the Lords EU Justice Sub-Committee wrote to the Lord Chancellor to set out a number of the Sub-Committee’s concerns about the impact of the Government’s handling of the Brexit negotiations on judicial co-operation, warning about the

“‘profound and damaging’ impact of a no-deal Brexit on the UK’s family law system and those that these courts seek to protect”.

The civil judicial co-operation framework that I referred to earlier on, which was issued by the Government, was found by the Lords EU Justice Sub-Committee to contain little detail on how the Government’s aims for co-operation would be achieved, and noted that

“a worrying level of complacency has taken hold in the Government that assumes that we can leave the EU without alternatives in place and that other international arrangements will fill the void left by this important EU legislation.”

It is in that context that we express concern that the provisions in the statutory instrument could begin to undo the existing legal framework without yet having an agreed replacement in place. That is a risky approach that would be avoidable were it not for the Government’s failure so far to secure comprehensive agreements on future co-operation in justice matters. The Lords EU Justice Sub-Committee is not alone in noting that. The matter was raised in two debates in Westminster Hall last year, which focused generally on judicial co-operation post Brexit, not only for legal services but for our judicial and civil relationships.

The statutory instrument does not come with a clear explanation, which is another concern expressed by the Lords. The Government’s failure to plan properly for reciprocal justice arrangements could have damaging consequences for people who rely on such co-operation. Earlier, I asked whether European Union residents could apply in the ordinary way for legal aid for UK courts post Brexit in cases of children across borders, for example, and whether that aid would be granted subject to means and merit tests. No answer has been given. I would be grateful if the Minister gave us some facts and figures about which applications for legal aid might be accepted. It is well known that the Law Society has indicated its concerns to the Ministry of Justice about the provisions and the problems that they may cause. For those reasons, we will vote against the statutory instrument.

Draft Services of Lawyers and Lawyer’s Practice (Revocation etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2019 General Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey. I have indicated to the Minister, the Government Whip and the Chair that we will not be pressing this statutory instrument to a vote. I thank the Minister for her courtesy in ringing me to talk about it last week.

The Opposition have some observations about the statutory instrument and its effects. The legal services sector is in a unique position in the European Union. It is widely established that a series of European directives have created a single market in legal services, unlike in other service sectors. Lawyers and law firms benefit from a simple, predictable and uniform system that allows them a temporary or permanent presence in other EU member states, with little scope to introduce national variations. This allows United Kingdom lawyers to service the cross-border needs of businesses and individuals, both from satellite offices in the European Union and through fly-in, fly-out services from their London offices. That is a daily business practice for many firms.

Since this liberalisation, the UK legal sector has become a major exporter to the European Union, with 36 of the top 50 UK law firms having at least one office in another country in the European Union or European economic area, or Switzerland. UK law firms have a presence in 26 of those 31 countries. That has meant that the legal sector has contributed significantly to our economy. In 2017 alone it was worth more than £26 billion to the UK economy—equivalent to 1.5% of UK GDP—and it employed in excess of 380,000 people. The latest statistics show that the legal services sector was responsible for a net export of £4 billion. There is no precise figure for how much of that trade is to the EU, but we are aware that 55% of the UK’s business services exports go to the European Union, and legal services make up a significant amount of UK business services.

A no-deal Brexit would have a significant impact on the ability of UK lawyers to operate in the European Union, and it would lead to World Trade Organisation rules being applied. Progress in developing rules on services at the World Trade Organisation has been very slow. Although it is outside the scope of the statutory instrument, I remind Members that there is a concern that a no-deal situation will have the following consequences for UK law firms and lawyers. Without a future partnership agreement, world-leading law firms in the UK could face significant restrictive regulations on the provision of temporary and permanent services in the European Union 27 countries. Lawyers would face more than 30 different regimes, depending on each European Union and EFTA member state, many of which impose restrictions and limit practice rights for third-country lawyers and law firms.

For example, there are restrictions on practice areas. In most European member states, it is not possible to practise local state law as a third-country lawyer without holding local qualifications. The WTO schedules of commitments under legal services include only home country and public international law. Crucially, European Union law is not treated as a type of public international law, and so is excluded from the scope of the schedules. UK lawyers will therefore not be able to advise on areas such as competition, internal markets and trade. In most member states, it would not be possible, save for a few exceptions, for a third-country lawyer to represent their client in the domestic courts.

Another big consequence is a restriction of modes of practice. Most European Union member states do not permit fly-in, fly-out services by third-country lawyers. If those services are lost, the profession’s ability to continue to advise European clients, represent those with cases involving more than one European Union member state and continue to play a leading role in global investigations will be jeopardised. Fly in, fly out is excluded from the WTO commitments, and each member state imposes its own rules and regulations. For example, France, Germany and Luxembourg require compulsory membership of professional bodies in relation to commercial presence. There are strict rules prohibiting local lawyers from partnering with non-EU lawyers in, for example, Spain and Sweden. There are restrictions on company structure or commercial presence, such as restrictions on foreign investment in law firms or an imposition of a certain legal form on third-country law firms, in, for example, France, Spain, Portugal and Poland.

One of the main issues is that most member states do not allow third-country nationals even to re-qualify in their national legal profession, as that is available only to EU, EEA or Swiss nationals. Again, that will have a big impact on UK lawyers and legal services, and our economy. Our world-leading services, which are rightly recognised across the world, will be seriously impacted.

Those are just some of the consequences. There have been at least two Westminster Hall debates on those and other issues relating to legal matters arising from Brexit. One was on 29 March last year and the other was on 21 November, and I had the pleasure of responding to both from the Opposition Front Bench. The issues I mentioned today were spoken about in detail or alluded to in those debates, and we asked the Government a number of questions. What are the Ministry of Justice and the Government doing to deal with the problems that we will have if we leave the European Union? So far, it seems that no protocols, no agreements, no treaties and no memorandums—no nothing—have been negotiated by the Ministry of Justice or the Government for legal services. There is a grace period until 2020, but nobody knows what will happen after that. Our legal services will be impacted.

This is not new. I am sure these issues have been raised by other hon. Members prior to 2018—I have been dealing with them since last year. I and other hon. Members who were present in the Westminster Hall debates that I have mentioned raised these points then. The Ministry of Justice has had to introduce a statutory instrument to deal with the revocation of all the previous legislation and the things that allowed essentially seamless movement of legal services across borders.

Although lawyers who have already qualified will keep their rights, that is not a great concession because if someone is already qualified in a particular country, it will be difficult to take that back. I know—as does the Minister, who was a practising lawyer as well—that at some point we are going to require another country’s legal jurisdiction. Different countries have different rules. Europe has what we call the continental system, which is a statutory-based codification, and that is a different ball game from trying to practise in common-law jurisdictions, which are very different. It can be an absolute nightmare, and a difficult and lengthy process, to re-qualify in other jurisdictions—and that leaves aside the fact that in some jurisdictions, someone who is not an EU, EEA or Swiss national cannot practise at all. Once we are out of the European Union, we will not be a member of any of those, so we will not be able to practise in many European countries. I do not know why the Department has not grasped the impact of that particular provision on our legal services.

I hope that the Minister and others in the Department are listening. I wish they would get together and sort something out, so that our lawyers can practise across the European Union, the EEA and Switzerland.

Courts and Tribunals (Judiciary and Functions of Staff) Bill [Lords]

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 12th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 1, in page 3, line 28, leave out subsection 3 and insert—

“(3) A statutory instrument containing regulations under this section may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House.”

This amendment would require that where statutory instruments delegating judicial functions to authorised persons are brought they would be subject to the affirmative procedure.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 2, in the schedule, page 6, line 36, at end insert—

“(aa) is a qualified solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive with more than three years’ experience post-qualification, and”.

This amendment would stipulate that the minimum legal qualifications for authorised persons should be three years’ experience post-qualification.

Amendment 3, in the schedule, page 8, line 31, at end insert—

“( ) is a qualified solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive with more than three years’ experience post-qualification, and”.

See explanatory statement to amendment 2.

Amendment 4, in the schedule, page 11, line 12, at end insert

“and if they are a qualified solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive with more than three years’ experience post-qualification”.

See explanatory statement to amendment 2.

Amendment 5, in the schedule, page 11, line 32, leave out subsection 67C and insert—

“67C Right to judicial reconsideration of decision made by an authorised person

A party to any decision made by an authorised person in the execution of the person’s duty as an authorised person exercising a relevant judicial function, by virtue of section 67B(1), may apply in writing, within 14 days of the service of the order, to have the decision reconsidered by a judge of the relevant court within 14 days from the date of application.”

This amendment would grant people subject to a decision made under delegated powers a statutory right to judicial reconsideration.

--- Later in debate ---

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I rise to speak in support of amendment 1 and the other amendments. We are being encouraged to wave through this wafer-thin Bill, which is both narrowly constrained and obscurely drafted. This is a Bill that sneaks through changes that will change unconstitutional double delegation—that is, of legislative power to unaccountable judges sitting on procedure rule committees and of judicial powers to non-independent courts and tribunal staff.

Let us begin with clause 3, which delegates judicial functions to authorised staff. This provision must be understood in the context of a wider court reform agenda and the austerity measures that seek to make significant cuts. These efficiencies, generated through the proposed reforms, arise not only from the reduction in the size of the courts estate, but from savings on judicial salaries. Ultimately, the Bill seeks more justice on the cheap.

The Bill will ensure that judicial powers are delegated to non-independent courts and tribunal staff. The procedure rule committee is primarily made up of senior judges, who would ensure relatively little external public scrutiny of this delegation of judicial functions to non-judicial employees of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service. That is a really important point.

The Bill provides that regulations under clause 3 must be made under the negative resolution procedure. In effect, this will allow new rules of court stipulating which judicial functions can be delegated and to whom, and the requisite qualifications or experience that an authorised person must have to take on these judicial functions, but, as the Bill stands, such a delegation will come into force without any real parliamentary scrutiny. In essence, by providing that the regulations in the Bill are to be made under the negative resolution procedure, the Government are avoiding proper scrutiny by a democratically mandated legislature here in this place.

Our amendment, which is supported by the Bar Council, would ensure more constitutionally appropriate accountability and scrutiny, through the affirmative resolution procedure, of these sweeping regulations. These regulations concern powers to make rules stipulating which judicial functions can be delegated and to whom, and the qualifications and experience required before a member of the administration can be given these judicial functions. Without careful scrutiny and additional safeguards, the Government’s drip-feed approach to court reform will erode some of our most fundamental institutions and our understanding of the rule of law.

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady comment on whether the qualification provision will raise the bar significantly above that in current regulations for such people and whether that will put at a disadvantage people already carrying out those functions?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

We are talking about two different things. The authorised persons are to have delegated to them many judicial functions, and it is only appropriate that they have some experience. In those circumstances, three years’ post-qualification experience is not a big ask, obligation or burden. We are asking for the minimum, and we are being very reasonable and practical about it. We are only surprised that the Government are not taking our concerns on board and changing the rules.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

One reason we need proper scrutiny is the tendency towards rationalisation of the courts, which eventually means long waiting times—that cannot be justice for anyone waiting for a trial. There have been endless cases of this now, and it is getting worse, not better. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is not fair on the victim or the perpetrator?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

My hon. Friend is spot on. That is one of our concerns about the Government’s proposals.

We need a process that requires transparent and public scrutiny in this House of the scope of future delegated powers. The safeguards the Opposition seek on the powers created by the Bill are not unreasonable and would not interfere with the notion of reasonable delegation of non-contentious administrative functions; they simply press for further oversight and accountability.

Our amendments providing that the authorised persons must be solicitors, barristers or chartered legal executives with more than three years’ post-qualification experience have been recommended and drafted by the Law Society and are supported by the Bar Council. In other words, all the practitioners in the country are supporting and asking for these changes, and I ask the Government, even at this late stage, to consider adopting them. In the circumstance, we believe them to be the minimal ask of the Government. It is a lower qualification threshold than what is currently required of pupil supervisors, or indeed of solicitors, to supervise an office.

It is worth remembering that authorised staff are not subject to the training, experience, ethos and oaths of professional judges, and could be performing judicial functions while also—this is really important—being employed directly by HMCTS. This raises genuine questions of independence.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

We are talking about taxpayers’ money. Does the hon. Lady not accept that where such tasks are routine—say, straightforward case preparation—the people performing them should not need a legal qualification?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

These people will be performing judicial tasks and functions and so will need to be appropriately qualified, which is why we have tabled the amendments.

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

It is my understanding that these are mainly interlocutory functions, not actual judgments or significant judicial functions.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

No, as we understand it, although it is envisaged that some of these tasks will be procedural, others will be very important to people whose rights are affected. We might think, for example, that requests for adjournments are straightforward, but they are not. As practitioners and former practitioners will know, they can be complicated, because when a judge decides whether to grant one, they take into consideration a host of things, so it is important that the person be appropriately qualified.

We accept that the procedure rule committee will be able to iron out some of the questions about what are judicial and what are administrative functions, but the main thing is that these people will be carrying out judicial functions and deciding some difficult issues, and it is only appropriate that they be qualified and appropriately experienced.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We discussed this in Committee. Interlocutory case management often has a large bearing on what happens in a case; it can alter what happens in a case and it can alter cost decisions. In their own way, such decisions are as important as purely judicial decisions. The Government’s proposal might be a false economy, so I support what she is saying.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I thank my hon. Friend, a former shadow Justice Minister, for his intervention, and I take his point.

We acknowledge that the relevant procedure rule committee will set out the procedural requirements for who can carry out the procedures, but we also know that these committees are predominantly made up of senior judges, so this will have implications for the independence of judicial decision making.

We also believe that such a shift will not match the expectations held by members of the public on the experience and independence of those making judicial decisions about their rights.

[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

The hon. Lady referred to the independence of the judges. Is not the whole virtue of this proposal that the rules governing who should be delegated what functions will be made by judges, and should not be made by politicians in any circumstance? Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, the former Lord Chief Justice, observed:

“Experience has shown that detailed restrictions on procedure are a very real fetter on the administration of justice.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 20 June 2018; Vol. 791, c. 2039.]

He counselled against too much restriction of the kind that is being proposed.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

The procedure rule committee obviously has a place in our judicial system, and we accept that judges and others are involved in it, but everyone knows that there are times when, because of financial pressures, services are cut to the bare minimum. We believe that, to protect our judicial system, the functions concerned should be clearly set out, and those that will have an effect on someone should be decided by an authorised person with a legal qualification.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is getting perilously close to suggesting that judges will do justice when they are inside a court, but will be incapable of ensuring that justice is done when they are outside a court, on the procedure rule committees. Will she make it crystal clear that judges will always, in all circumstances, want to do justice, and can be trusted to do so?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

We are not suggesting that judges will somehow not be independent. As I have said, I have the highest regard for our judiciary in court, although from time to time we might disagree with the decisions that judges reach. In the real world, however, there are often targets to be met and financial constraints to be considered. We are saying that when the procedure rule committee is making rules, it should be guided by Parliament.

[Robert Neill]

rose—

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[Yasmin Qureshi]

I have taken a number of interventions, and I will make some progress now. Otherwise we will be going round in circles on the same point.

The Bill provides for judicial functions to be delegated to authorised staff across the criminal, civil and family courts and tribunals. However, it also states that while those staff will be independent of the Lord Chancellor when carrying out the delegated functions, they will remain court staff, and will not take the judicial oath of independence. It is surely important for those who will be making any type of judicial decision to take that oath. They cannot be described as independent when they are employed by the court in which they will serve.

There might, for example, be economic pressures. The court might want to get rid of cases very quickly, within a certain period. The promotion prospects of those who are employed directly by the courts will, of course, be affected, and, unlike judges, they will not be governed by the oath of independence, the Bar rules and the Law Society rules. People who are making judicial decisions should be appropriately qualified, with the proper ethos and the proper rules that apply to solicitors and barristers, and to which members of the legal profession, such as me, must have regard.

Our amendment 5 would ensure that a party to any decision made by an authorised person exercising a relevant judicial function, or the function of a tribunal,

“may apply in writing, within 14 days of the service of the order, to have the decision reconsidered by a judge of the relevant court within 14 days from the date of application.”

We will be quite happy if the Government want to increase the period to 21 days, or reduce it to fewer than 14, but we want people to have a right to judicial reconsideration of a decision made by an authorised person. We cannot understand why the Government do not want to accept the amendment.

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[Lucy Frazer]

I hope that more will put in to speak on this important subject. I wish to pick up on what my hon. Friend was saying, because he cited a number of speeches from the other place, where senior members of the judiciary were highlighting the appropriateness of the Government’s position. Lord Neuberger, former President of the Supreme Court, warned that these amendments would place

“a potential straitjacket on the ability to appoint the appropriate people to make appropriate decisions.”

He went on to reflect that there “will be many decisions” for which the experience set out in the amendments

“would be appropriate, but there will be others where less experience would be adequate for the decision-making.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 10 July 2018; Vol. 792, c. 882.]

Thirdly, I come to an important point that has not yet been mentioned in the House. The amendments would limit flexibility should new routes to legal qualifications emerge. For example, one key change that we have made in the draft regulations that we published alongside the Bill is to include fellows of the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives, or those who have passed the necessary examinations to be a CILEx fellow, among those who can give legal advice. That is a progressive step, but if we were to accept amendments 2 and 3, it would be much harder to respond to such changes in the future, as we would have to amend primary, rather than secondary, legislation.

Furthermore, a legal qualification might not be the most relevant qualification for a particular judicial function. For example, it is more helpful for a registrar in the tax tribunal to be a tax professional by background, rather than a legal professional.

The hon. Member for Bolton South East raised a number of points on independence, and I wish to start by saying that I think the judiciary, whether sitting in court or in committee, has, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) said when he was in his place, the highest level of independence and integrity.

The hon. Lady queried, both here and in Committee, the independence of authorised staff, implying that those with a legal qualification were more likely to be independent. Under the Bill, all court and tribunal staff who are authorised to exercise judicial functions will now be independent of the Lord Chancellor when doing so, and subject only to the direction of the Lord Chief Justice or their nominee, or the Senior President of Tribunals or their delegate.

The Bill also provides, for the first time, protections from legal proceedings and costs in legal proceedings and indemnities for all authorised staff when carrying out judicial functions, which will further safeguard their independence in decision making.

Finally, amendment 5 deals with the right of reconsideration of decisions taken by authorised staff in the courts. I wish to start by acknowledging that the hon. Lady and the Opposition have listened carefully to the points made in Committee; I note there is now no amendment dealing with decisions taken by staff in the tribunals, and I welcome that.

It is right that in some circumstances a party to proceedings may wish to have the decision reconsidered, but we remain opposed to the amendment for three reasons. First, the Bill already ensures that a right of reconsideration will be available when appropriate. We believe that the independent procedure rule committees—comprised, as I and others have said, of jurisdictional experts and experienced practitioners—are best placed to decide whether such a right of further reconsideration is needed and, if so, the form that that right should take.

Indeed, the procedure rule committees in the civil and tribunals jurisdictions have already included in their respective rules a specific right to judicial reconsideration for decisions made by authorised persons in appropriate cases. For example, the magistrates courts and the family court have their own existing mechanisms for reviewing various decisions, which amendment 5 would cut across.

Secondly, the right identified by the hon. Lady is too broad, even by her own admission. In speaking to amendments in Committee, she said that

“we accept and acknowledge that one should not be able to ask for reconsideration simply because one disagrees with the decision of the authorised person; one must have a cogent reason. There must be proper grounds for requesting a reconsideration.”—[Official Report, Courts and Tribunals (Judiciary and Functions of Staff) [Lords] Public Bill Committee, 4 December 2018; c. 17.]

I was delighted to hear those words, because the Government have also been arguing, both here and in the other place, that a blanket right of reconsideration simply would not work in practice. Yet amendment 5 would give a party in a case an automatic right to request that any decision made by an authorised person exercising the functions of a court be reconsidered by a judge, irrespective of the merits.

Thirdly, the approach we put forward is fair and balanced. The Government listened to concerns about ensuring there were adequate safeguards in the Bill. For that reason, we moved amendments on the right of reconsideration that were accepted on Report in the other place. They effectively require the rule committee, when making rules, to allow authorised staff to exercise judicial functions to consider whether each of those functions should be subject to a right to judicial reconsideration. Where a rule committee decides against the creation of a right of reconsideration, it must inform the Lord Chancellor of its decision and the reasons for it.

The hon. Lady also referred to the Briggs report, and I would like to touch on that very briefly. The recommendations made by Lord Justice Briggs are taken from the report “Civil Courts Structure Review”, the focus of which was the courts of the civil jurisdiction. While an unqualified right of reconsideration might have been appropriate to recommend for the civil courts, given their unique way of working it would be ineffective simply to transpose this recommendation on entirely different jurisdictions.

The civil procedure rule committee has built a right of reconsideration into its rules, but this will not necessarily be appropriate for other jurisdictions. It is for each jurisdiction, with the expertise it has within the rule committee, to decide what is right.

That approach has found favour in the other place. Lord Thomas, former Lord Chief Justice and former chair of the criminal procedure rule committee, said:

“I support what the Government seek to do and urge a substantial degree of caution in respect of the proposals brought forward by the noble Baroness”—

that is, Baroness Chakrabarti. He added that the Government’s approach provides the right balance:

“It gives discretion to a body that knows and has a lot of experience, but it contains that degree of explanatory accountability that will make sure that it does not do anything—even if we were to worry that it might—that goes outside a proper and just delegation”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 16 October 2018; Vol. 793, c. 425-26.]

The Bill strikes the right balance between ensuring appropriate safeguards and transparency of decision making, and leaving the jurisdictional rule committees the discretion to determine the most appropriate mechanism for reviewing decisions by authorised people.

Finally, I would like to respond to the very important points made by the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh). I was very pleased to meet her and Sammy Woodhouse a week or so ago. She raised issues that are outside the scope of the Bill, but none the less what Sammy went through was harrowing and the hon. Lady made some important points. As she knows, I committed to look very carefully at the issues she raised and I assure her that we are doing that.

As the hon. Lady mentioned, we have already taken some steps. We have, as she alluded to, asked the president of the family court to look at the practice directions and he has committed to doing that with the rule committee. My officials have spoken to the Association of Directors of Children’s Services about whether it is appropriate to send further guidance to councils on the circumstances in which they should apply to court not to give notice of hearings to parties, such as happened in the Sammy Woodhouse case. The Department will continue to look closely at those issues.

For all those reasons, this is an important Bill that will ensure that we can bring flexibility to our judges, deploy them in the most flexible way, use their resources where they are needed and not when they are not needed, and ensure that those who operate our court system do so effectively and fairly for the people they serve.

The Ministry of Justice is putting users of the court at the heart of our reforms and of our programme on court reform. The measures will not only save on cost—that is not the primary reason for them, although it is important—but ensure that cases go through the system fairly and well. For those reasons, I urge the hon. Lady to withdraw the amendment.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed: 2, in the schedule, page 6, line 36, at end insert—

“(aa) is a qualified solicitor, barrister or chartered legal executive with more than three years’ experience post-qualification, and”.—(Yasmin Qureshi.)

This amendment would stipulate that the minimum legal qualifications for authorised persons should be three years’ experience post-qualification.

Question put, That the amendment be made.