Storm Babet: Flooding

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Pow]

I would like to assure the hon. Gentleman that DEFRA has been working closely with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, which has a strategy for exactly this issue, because it is critical that power outages are considered when emergencies such as this take place. Effective action was taken over the Rolls-Royce plants in the Derbyshire area; that was a very effective alignment with the Energy Department. Just as an aside, we work closely with the water industry on preparedness, should there be electricity outages, some of which might be linked to flooding. In fact, there was another incident near Derby and it had a clear management plan.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

My heart goes out to all the communities affected, and particularly to those who lost their lives. The images on the news of the devastation of the floods will also have an impact on communities who have been flooded previously and have escaped. Many people in Prestolee on the River Irwell in my constituency will be among those watching with great anxiety. I have raised this issue several times in the Chamber and with the Minister. Can she assure me that every house in every community that has faced repeated flooding this week and in previous years, including Prestolee, will get the funding they need to be able to protect their lives, livelihoods and property?

[Rebecca Pow]

The hon. Lady and I have met and discussed her issues a number of times. I will just flag that we launched the frequently flooded fund of £100 million, which allocated funds to 53 projects. The areas that put forward viable projects for the funding are finding it very effective, and another round will open shortly.

Insurance is also really important for houses where there is a possibility of flooding, and Flood Re works intensively on that. The process has been tweaked to ensure that as many houses as possible can get into it and a huge number of properties have been helped. Those that have difficulties can go to the inventory that has just been set up, and 13,000 people who had slightly more difficult cases have been helped through that. The Association of British Insurers has worked closely to ensure that all people are being catered for. There is also an extra “build back better” £10,000 to build one’s property back better.

Oral Answers to Questions

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

It will be no surprise to anyone in this House that Liberal Democrats often say one thing to get elected and then do the exact opposite. We should be aware that generating energy from waste should not compete with greater waste prevention, reuse or recycling. Consideration must be given to the Government’s strategic ambition to minimise waste and our soon-to-be-published residual waste reduction target, and I agree that my hon. Friend’s residents should respond to the consultation in full force.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

T2. Since the Boxing day floods in 2015, my residents on Riverside Drive have been living in fear. They recently found out that the works will be further delayed until 2026—11 years after the first floods. Moreover, a nearby floor basin project has increased the volume of water in its part of the River Irwell, meaning that the river now rises at a faster rate than before, adding more stress for my residents. I have raised the issue many times in Parliament, and I have asked successive Ministers to come to visit Bolton South East to see it for themselves and speak to residents. I ask the new Secretary of State to do the same.

[Dr Coffey]

I am not committing to visiting the hon. Lady’s constituency, but I am very concerned about what she just relayed. I have already asked for the Environment Agency to meet for a deep dive on the flooding budget. There is a frequently flooded fund, which can support constituencies such as hers, and we need to make sure we are delivering effective action. That also goes for councils, which need to make sure they have cleared the gullies, so that we do not get these levels of surface water flooding.

Flooding

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

On Boxing day 2015, Riverside Drive and Beaver Chase in Prestolee and Stoneclough in my constituency suffered severe flooding from the rising waters of the River Irwell during unprecedented high rainfall. Some 57 properties were affected and residents were forced to flee their homes. Properties were severely damaged and vehicles written off. The Environment Agency has worked very hard to come up with a proposal for the flood defences. It is now four years since those major floods and the proposed flood defences have still not been installed. The residents believe the Government are not prioritising them because they are prioritising schemes with larger numbers of properties, so Prestolee keeps getting pushed back further.

Following meetings with local residents and the Environment Agency, I wrote a letter to the Minister who is in her place today on 4 February this year, urging her to provide the funding needed to complete the defence work in my constituency. I have yet to receive a response.

On Sunday 9 February, Riverside Drive was flooded again, this time affecting 22 properties. Right now the residents’ wrecked belongings are piled up in their gardens. Some residents are living in the upstairs of their homes as the downstairs is uninhabitable, and others are forced to stay in hotels. Many residents feel trapped; they are unable to remortgage or sell their homes.

The damage caused to the river bank is such that if the river levels rise again, the estate will be flooded again, and there have been several flood alerts since the flood in 2015. Every time there is rainfall the residents get very anxious and worried about what may happen. It is causing a lot of them mental distress.

Both the residents and the Environment Agency are keen to get construction of the flood defences under way as soon as possible, and there are no technical difficulties in doing that. However, until the funding is made available no work can be commenced, and even if the funding was granted today, the first set of work would not be able to start until spring 2021. We do not know how many more rainfalls there may be, and obviously people are incredibly distressed about this.

It is difficult to install temporary defences due to the fact that there is a lack of space. The ideal solution is to build flood walls on both sides of the river, as some properties on the right bank also flooded in 2015. However, a flood wall on the left bank adjacent to Riverside Drive is far more urgent. The Environment Agency informed me that it would cost in the region of £4 million for walls on both banks of the river or £3 million for the left bank alone.

In just one week residents have collected 2,876 signatures on a public petition, and I hold those signatures and the petition in my hand now. I will be presenting the petition this afternoon at the end of proceedings. The petition urges the Government to fully fund our defences. I therefore ask the Minister to commit to the money that is required to build them in my constituency.

We have all heard about the fact that—and everyone recognises this—with climate change we are going to have more and more and more rain; it is not going to lessen. There is going to be more and more flooding and devastation. More and more people and properties are going to be affected. So why do the Government not take the bull by the horns? All the areas in the United Kingdom that have been affected by the floods and are going to be repeatedly affected by floods must be provided with the money they need now, so as to prevent future damage. It makes no sense not to do that. It would help to regenerate our economy if these contracts were provided and it would rebuild areas, so in every aspect this is a win-win-win. I really do not want to see the sadness and the devastation on my constituents’ faces again, so I urge the Minister to grant us the funding that we need to construct the walls on the two banks.

Finally, I want to pay tribute to the residents of Prestolee, especially Karen Smith, who helped organise the petition, to the Environment Agency, which has helped and done a great amount of work, and to all the emergency services. So again, at the risk of sounding like a broken tape recorder, I say: please can we have £5 million for our flood defences?

Sale of Puppies

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans]

That is absolutely right. The hon. Gentleman and I are both south Wales MPs. If anyone visiting Pembrokeshire drives down the road from Swansea to Carmarthenshire, all they will see are signs saying “Puppies for sale” and “Dogs for sale.” They might wonder why people are constantly selling puppies and dogs. Enforcement is the real issue; it is the crux of the problem. We might have the legislation but we also need strong enforcement.

I understand that in enforcing stricter and more robust licensing laws, the work of the already thinly stretched and underfunded local authorities will increase. There is an urgent need for additional funding for local authorities, but the expertise of the third sector can also have a role. That is why I advocate charities such as the Dogs Trust, Blue Cross and the RSPCA working alongside the local authorities to aid them with inspections and with the enforcement of licensing standards. We cannot rely solely on the third sector to fix all our problems, but it is important that we foster collaboration between local authorities and the animal welfare charities that are experts in the area.

We cannot talk about licences without talking about fees. There are no standardised licensing fees for dog breeders, and prices per local authority vary from £23 to £782. It is no wonder that many responsible breeders are so put off applying for a licence. One way of rectifying this is by introducing a risk-based approach to licensing, with the level of risk that a breeding business poses determining the fee. There could be a rating system, with those with higher points and adhering to higher standards of breeding being awarded lower licensing fees. Such financial incentives would encourage compliance with higher standards and better practice—almost like the road fund licence in relation to polluting cars.

In addition to the aforementioned proposals, we need to look further at third-party sales of puppies. Yes, we could call for a ban, but it is clear that the internet is like the wild west at the moment. It is so unlicensed that it would be difficult to clamp down on those third-party sales. I am therefore asking the Government to introduce an information campaign and to make it mandatory for a buyer to see the puppy interacting with its mother and its littermates before purchase; but we would need to ensure that such a requirement could be enforced. As unlicensed breeders become increasingly savvy in working round the regulations of breeding, it could only work if local authorities were given the necessary resources, perhaps using the proceeds of a licensing fee for that purpose. We should also contemplate forcing breeders to provide full seller information when posting adverts, and introducing the practice of assigning every breeder a unique identification number, as France has recently done.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

It is great that my hon. Friend has secured this Adjournment debate. I have received many letters on this issue, and I want to let the Minister know that it is a real matter of concern for many of our constituents. I thank my hon. Friend for raising it.

[Chris Evans]

I thank my hon. Friend, who is a diligent Member of Parliament and a good friend since I came to the House.

In conclusion, I urge the Government to review the current legislation surrounding sales of puppies and other pets in the UK. The 1951 Act must be updated to regulate online sales of puppies. More importantly, we need to ensure that local authorities and licensing officers receive full appropriate training to do their jobs properly. Once that has been established, we can consider a ban on third-party sales.

This debate has shown the House at its very best, and I know that many Members will support me on this initiative. Dogs bring so much joy to our lives and help us in so many ways. Whether we keep dogs for work, as a health aid or simply for companionship, it is high time that we gave something back to our four-legged friends and afforded them the protection they deserve. My life has been enlightened by owning a dog. Dogs are important to me, and I will own dogs for the rest of my life.

Finally, I thank Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, Blue Cross, RSPCA, Dogs Trust and the International Fund for Animal Welfare for their tireless work to improve welfare standards for dogs and animals across the country, and for bringing often ignored issues to the country’s attention. I hope the Minister will take on board some of the constructive suggestions that we have heard in this debate.

Badger Vaccines

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I welcome this debate, which my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) called for. The number of people here today suggests that we could do with more than half an hour to debate some of the issues. I welcome the tone with which my hon. Friend approached the debate. He is right that some people take different views about whether we should pursue a cull strategy, but we all agree that there is a role for vaccination of both cattle and badgers.

I was pleased to have the opportunity to consider the matter in detail in my recent role as a member of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. The Government’s response to its report was published earlier today and shows that we share a significant amount of common ground on the issue.

Bovine TB is the biggest threat to the livestock industry in England—I was going to say Cornwall, where it is also a threat, as the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) knows. Having lived and worked in the farming industry in Cornwall, I know how difficult the problem is. My family run a herd of pedigree south Devon cattle and in the late 1960s, before my time, they had an incident of TB that wiped out more than half the herd and had a devastating impact on the family farm. My father still talks about it.

By the 1980s, we had almost eradicated the disease, but in the last 10 years there has been a severe deterioration. It has cost the country more than £5 million so far to fight the disease. Last year, we had to slaughter some 28,000 animals. Bovine control is not under control. In Lancashire, the county of my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale, we have seen an increase in the number of herds under restriction and the number of cattle slaughtered in the last year.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

The Minister says that bovine TB is spreading more, and that is exactly why people are saying that culling is not the answer. Scientists involved in a randomised badger culling trial between 1998 and 2005 have shown that culling has not contributed meaningfully to a reduction in the disease and, if anything, has increased it because as the animals are shot, they run away and carry the disease with them.

[George Eustice]

It is generally accepted that, after the initial conclusions of the randomised badger culling trials, there was a significant reduction of some 16% in the cull area in the following years. On perturbation, which other hon. Members have also raised, there was an increase in TB in a ring immediately around the trial areas as a result of perturbation, but the incidence then dropped. Overall, there was a reduction. I point the hon. Lady to evidence in other countries, such as the Republic of Ireland, which has had a cull policy since 2000 with a reduction of around 45% in the incidence of the disease, and the number of cattle having to be slaughtered has halved.

There is no magic bullet and no single policy that can change the situation dramatically. Vaccination of badgers and cattle has a role; wildlife control has a role; dealing with the reservoir of TB in wildlife has a role; and routine testing, movement controls and better biosecurity all have a role. But none of them alone is the entire solution.

Agricultural Wages Board

Yasmin Qureshi Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mary Creagh]

Absolutely. With the abolition of the AWB, there will be no minimum wage for children under the age of 16 who are picking fruit or driving tractors at weekends and in the summer holidays. When one thinks about the amount of money a tractor is worth, and how such work could become a route into farming for some young people, it will certainly cap their access to that employment.

As well as the 152,000 who are directly covered by the board, a similar number have their wages set against the AWB benchmark, including equestrian workers in the racing and leisure industries, estate workers and gamekeepers. Nearly every constituency in the country has some people who will be affected, including more than 50 people in Wakefield. The board sets fair wages, holiday pay, sick pay and overtime. It has six grades, and the lowest grade is just 2p an hour more than the national minimum wage.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is another pernicious, shoddy little policy by the Government, who are ideologically driven to cut the wages of ordinary working people?

[Mary Creagh]

They are certainly driven by ideology, although the ideology of the Minister of State seems to have changed from when he was a Back Bencher, now that he enjoys the privilege of a Government car. I do not know what has changed for him.

Without the AWB, farm workers will be worse off. As my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Andy Sawford) said, there will be no minimum wage for children under 16. Seasonal workers will lose their entitlement to their own bed, which is currently guaranteed by the board. The cap on the amount employers can charge workers for tied accommodation, currently £4.82 a day for a caravan, will be removed. Some 42,000 casual workers will see their pay cut to the minimum wage as soon as they finish their current job. The rest will see their wages eroded over time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Paterson]

In October this year, the Government will raise the national minimum wage by 12p an hour to £6.31. [Interruption.] Let me respond to the chunterings of the shadow Secretary of State by pointing out that that is 10p above the lowest band rate set by the Agricultural Wages Board. Agricultural workers supplied by a labour provider will continue to have the added protection of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority. We will also make changes to the working time regulations by means of secondary legislation in order fully to align the treatment of agricultural workers with those in other sectors.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

Will the Secretary of State promise that if the wages and terms and conditions of agricultural workers start to decline after the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board, he will reinstate the board?

[Mr Paterson]

I cannot promise anything. It is up to individual employers. What I do know is that employers throughout the country are crying out for good staff. Finding a good cowman is like finding hens’ teeth, and a really skilled driver of a modern piece of equipment worth hundreds of thousands of pounds is someone an employer will really hang on to.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

rose—

[Mr Paterson]

I have already answered the hon. Lady’s question. She takes a completely black view of the economy, but this is an expanding sector that demands skilled people.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

rose—

[Mr Paterson]

I am going to press on. Other Members want to speak.

I believe that agriculture needs to encourage new and young workers to come into the industry. Evidence suggests that the skills shortage in agriculture will be greater in the years between now and 2020 than in other sectors of the economy. The agricultural work force is also ageing: 55% are over 45, which, again, is a higher figure than is found in other sectors of the economy. Under the new arrangements, market drivers will ensure that wages remain competitive. Farmers will need to offer competitive employment packages and career opportunities at all levels to recruit and retain workers to meet their business needs.

Of course, we recognise the need to ensure a smooth transition for agricultural workers and employers to the new arrangements. Subject to parliamentary approval for the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill, we intend to invite industry representatives to a meeting to explore whether there is scope for future informal, voluntary industry engagement between employers and workers. DEFRA also supports a review of the agricultural skill levels used in the agricultural wages order, which will contribute to the broader work of the industry AgriSkills Forum. We will ensure that written guidance and information is available for workers and employers to help them understand the changes and what they mean for them.

The abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board will allow the industry to modernise while ensuring that agricultural workers have the same levels of protection as workers in all other sectors of the economy. It will ensure a vibrant and sustainable future for agriculture and will have benefits for those who work in the industry, as well as the wider rural economy.

The motion seems to look upon the UK agriculture industry as though it is still powered by beer, sandwiches and steam, when in fact it is reliant on cutting-edge technology, machinery and science. The Government wish to equip the agriculture sector for the challenges and opportunities of the 21st century. The Labour party and its union backers do not. We will vote against the motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hart]

I think that my hon. Friend is wrong on only one point: he says that the Labour party does not understand, but I think that it understands only too well. It is caught in a difficult position because its union sponsors are saying one thing and its constituents in certain areas are saying another.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

May I just confirm that, as a former barrister, I neither belong to a union, nor am I financed by a union? I am concerned about the working conditions and pay of working people. I will ask the hon. Gentleman the same question I asked the Secretary of State earlier: if after the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board we find that workers’ wages, accommodation and so on deteriorate, will he reintroduce it?

[Simon Hart]

It might surprise the hon. Lady to learn that I am not a member of the Government and so I am not really in a position to answer that. Of course, I sat through 13 years of Labour disdain for rural Britain, and that question was asked on many occasions. However, I do not want to be reprimanded by the Chair twice in two days for getting off the topic by talking about union sponsorship, so if she will forgive me—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hanson]

If the hon. Gentleman will let me develop my argument, he will see that this is not just about pay. He was not here at the time, but the Secretary of State kept me up for 36 hours so he could vote against the minimum wage. He did not do that so that wages could rise; he did it so that wages would not rise. My worry about the abolition of the AWB is based on exactly the same principle: it will remove a floor that protects the work force in my constituency.

As I have said, my constituency depends on agriculture and more than 11% of my constituents work in agriculture. Courses in horticulture and agriculture at Northop college bring in people to train in agriculture. These are key issues. Although Government Members may view minimum rates of pay, overtime, holiday entitlement, sick pay, rates of pay for young workers, compassionate leave, rest breaks, maximum deductions for tied housing, allowances for keeping working dogs and payment of on-call and night allowances as issues of regulation, to my constituents they are bread and butter matters that impact on their lives and they want their representative and others who represent rural areas in Parliament to stand up and speak on their behalf. They are not idle issues.

I am getting a bit long in the tooth. I have been here for 21 years and the first Bill Committee I sat on was for the 1992 employment Bill that abolished every single wages board apart from the AWB. That Bill was taken through this House by the then Member for Stirling, the now noble Lord Forsyth, who is not known for his left leanings, but who decided to maintain the AWB because he recognised, even at that time, that it was crucial for conditions as well as wages.

The national minimum wage has been mentioned. I was very proud to vote for the national minimum wage and am grateful that my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett) is here. It was one of the greatest achievements of the Labour Government. The then Opposition kept this House up late into the evening because they did not support it. Why should we trust a party that does not support the national minimum wage when it says that this measure will maintain or improve pay and conditions?

[Yasmin Qureshi]

Is it not right that over the past 15 or 20 years, the Conservative party has always taken away working people’s rights and benefits when in government?

[Mr Hanson]

My main worry is that the assessment of the Welsh Assembly that some £26 million to £28 million will be taken out of agricultural wages in Wales over the next 10 years will prove to be correct and that rural poverty will increase. That is money that will not be spent in the shops of Mold, Holywell and Flint in my constituency, that will not help to sustain the rural economy in my constituency, and that will not be spent in the rural post offices, pubs and communities of my constituency. That money will be lost to the area. This measure will be damaging for the 13,829 people across Wales who work in the agricultural sector and who depend on the wages board.

As I have mentioned, the Farmers Union of Wales, which, with respect to the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart), is not affiliated to the Labour party, has said on many occasions that it opposes the moves by the UK Government to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board. It stated:

“The Union has always supported the AWB and remains concerned that unless there are systems in place to protect payments to agricultural workers, the industry will not attract the highly skilled individuals it needs to thrive”.

It went on to say:

“As many farms in Wales run with relatively few staff, the AWB is considered an important means of avoiding potential conflict and lengthy negotiations with individual staff”.

It also said:

“The economic climate within the agricultural industry has made it a less attractive option for young people, and rewarding skills, qualifications, and levels of responsibility is a vital means of persuading high calibre people to remain or enter into the industry.”

As my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) said, the Labour-controlled National Assembly for Wales was not consulted about the abolition of the AWB, as it should have been by statute. The Government failed to do that and passed the measure through the back door in a Bill that did not require consultation. The Secretary of State knows that he should have consulted the National Assembly. These are important matters for my colleagues there. As has been mentioned, the National Assembly may outline shortly its plans to keep the minimum wages and conditions set by the Agricultural Wages Board in a Welsh context. However, that will involve bureaucracy and cost. It would have been far better, particularly from a Unionist party, if the conditions had been maintained across England and Wales.

As I mentioned in an intervention, the Secretary of State represents a border area. His constituency of North Shropshire is not far from mine; his borders Wales and mine borders England. If there are different terms and conditions on either side of the border, the market will flow across it. If the conditions are worse in England than in Wales, which they may be if the Welsh Assembly retains the board, the Secretary of State will find that there is a flow of individuals looking for better terms and conditions, who will perhaps only have to travel 1 or 2 miles across the border. I find it strange that that will be caused by a Unionist politician. Mold, Holywell and Flint in my constituency will lose income because of this measure, but I believe that there will also be a confidence issue.

In conclusion, 63% of the people who were consulted did not support this measure and the Welsh Assembly does not support it. I accept, as the hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire said, that Unite the Union does not support the measure to abolish the board, but it is part of a broad-based coalition that does not accept it. The Minister of State—the Tonto to the Secretary of State’s Lone Ranger—did not support this proposal in opposition, but is an advocate of it in government. He should examine his conscience and think about what is in the interests of his constituents.

The people driving the change are the same people driving tax cuts for millionaires. They are out of touch with their communities and with rural areas. I am proud to represent a rural area and speak up for it in Parliament, and I will be proud to vote today and say that whatever has already happened in legislation, I support the AWB.

--- Later in debate ---

[George Eustice]

The group of people the hon. Gentleman is concerned about are protected by the minimum wage. That is already there and is set at roughly the same level as a grade 1 agricultural worker, so I do not think that that is an argument at all. What I am saying is that being too rigid can actually frustrate the development of more progressive pay policies.

The other point, which the Secretary of State touched on earlier—we had this in our farm business where some of the work was in pack houses—is that someone could be running a conveyor belt packing strawberries one minute and working in the field the next, with totally different wages rates applying. We ran a farm shop, in which different rates applied, even though there were sometimes shared staff.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

The hon. Gentleman states that this is a progressive pay policy. In the past 30 years, have a Conservative Government ever passed any legislation that has helped the working person, whether in terms of payment, work and conditions, or equality? Conservative Governments have never, ever advocated and voted for the rights of the working person.

[George Eustice]

I do not want this debate to get distracted, but even in the current Parliament the coalition Government have changed tax thresholds that help all working people, especially those on the lowest income.

Another problem with the rigid pay structure is that, as currently structured, it can discourage training and career development in small farm businesses. I will explain why. A small farmer might have two or three employees. He might not be able to afford to employ someone on grade 2, grade 3 or grade 4. He might not really have a need for those staff to be trained to those grades, but might nevertheless take the view that to aid the career development of a new employee—perhaps someone who has just left school and joined their business—he will give them time off work and support them in proficiency tests and training. At the moment, if they do that, the next thing that happens is that they suddenly have to pay that person more money. Is it not better if that person can develop and train, and has a farmer who wants to facilitate that, so that maybe, when a neighbouring farm needs somebody who has the proficiency test skills and a different type of skill set, they are able to progress and take a job that is higher paid in that neighbouring farm? The farmer will want that to happen; he will be happy to encourage somebody and see a career develop. At the moment, however, we are in a situation where the rigid grade structure discourages farmers from wanting to have their employees seek further training.

We have heard a lot in this debate, both from my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) from my neighbouring constituency—we take different views on this, as people will have noticed—and others, about how difficult it is for farmers to negotiate with their staff, as if it is something that is dreadfully embarrassing and they cannot possibly do it. I reject that idea completely. Farmers, if they are still in business today, have to do all sorts of challenging things: they have to negotiate with people day in, day out; they have huge amounts of paperwork to deal with; and they have to negotiate and fight over the costs of their feeds, fuel bills and all sorts of things. The idea that they cannot sit down with the people they work with every day and have an intelligent conversation about their pay review is, frankly, ludicrous.

Farm businesses are no different from any other businesses. Even if they do not have to have discussions with their employees about pay rates, one can guarantee that there will still be times when they have to have discussions about people turning up for work late and staff who have problems at home and need some time off—all those sorts of issues. There is nothing different about farming. I was in the young farmers club in Cornwall with many of the farmers in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I know many of them and I can tell him that they are perfectly capable of having those conversations with their employees.