Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

It beggars belief that we have three days to talk about a lobbying Bill and some of the key issues highlighted by the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee will not be paid the due respect of having an airing in a Committee of the whole House. I agree with the hon. Lady that people outside will say, “What are they playing at? They promised us a Bill, and now they are playing parliamentary games so that we do not have the time to debate very important matters, such as the role of MPs, the definition of lobbyists, whether there should be better scrutiny of expenses paid by charities, and the definition of political activities.” I will not make that worse by going on for too much longer.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

The Deputy Leader of the House made a point about logging meetings with internal representatives of organisations. The problem is that, even if we accept that the system is 100% perfect, which I do not, the log does not include Parliamentary Private Secretaries, special advisers, senior civil servants and other people to whom internal representatives speak. I was contacted recently by a senior figure from Starbucks. I will not meet them, but their interest in me was because of an all-party parliamentary group with which I was connected. Such contacts should be logged.

[Mr Allen]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We have only a day to discuss those issues, which will be covered in the next group of amendments. I hope that the Committee will have the time to debate them, but it is now a matter of doubt whether we will have the chance to do so.

Much comes back to the fact that the Government do not consult Parliament in an effective way. If the Government had consulted Parliament, many of the foibles and flaws in the Bill could have been dealt with. My Committee spent a year, on behalf of every Member, considering this matter. We then spent seven hectic days trying to produce a report for the House. It is as if we had not bothered; it is as if the parliamentary process were irrelevant. The Bill has been stuffed into the sausage machine in the hope that it will be voted through tonight and the next two nights.

In conclusion—I will speak to other amendments on behalf of my Select Committee and others—the Prime Minister said that lobbying would be the next big scandal to hit us. I am afraid that there has been another scandal: the prostitution of the House of Commons by the Government in the way that the Bill has been brought forward. This is not a partisan point, but a point about the legislature and the Executive. I hope that there is a communion between Members of this House, who are parliamentarians, to say that this is an unacceptable way of making law. It would be unacceptable if it produced good law; it is absolutely intolerable that it produces such terrible law.

On behalf of my Select Committee, let me say that the Bill should be put into a special Committee so that we can have something we can all be proud of and say to our constituents, “You wanted us to do something about lobbying. The Prime Minister said it was a big issue, the coalition agreement said it was important, those on the Labour Front Bench said it was important and here it is, we have done the job. It has taken us a few years and another six months, but here it is.” If it is not, I am afraid that this House will be dragged into disrepute because of the way the Bill has come before us.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The reduction in corporation tax will be of immense benefit to Welsh small businesses. The Budget did, of course, announce that the national insurance employment allowance will benefit 35,000 businesses in Wales, with 20,000 of them taken out of paying national insurance contributions altogether.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

13. What assessment he has made of the effects of the Government’s policies on the living standards of people in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

This Government are committed to supporting those on low and middle incomes and to assisting growth by putting more money in the pockets of ordinary taxpayers. For example, the cumulative effect of this Government’s announced increases to the income tax personal allowance will result in a cash gain of £705 per annum for a typical basic rate taxpayer.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Some 400,000 individuals across Wales will face real-terms cuts in tax credits and benefits at a time when 13,000 millionaires across the UK will get a tax cut. Does the Secretary of State think this is right—yes or no?

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the effects of the Government’s economic policies on Wales; and if he will make a statement.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

11. What recent assessment he has made of the effects of the Government’s economic policies on Wales; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Before answering the question, I wish the House dydd gwyl Dewi da or a very happy St David’s day for Friday.

The Government are committed to delivering the plan that has cut the deficit by a quarter and given us record low interest rates and a record number of jobs, benefiting families and businesses in Wales. Moody’s decision to downgrade the UK Government bond rating is a reminder of how important it is to fix the country’s finances and a warning to those who think that we should simply borrow more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

The loss of the triple A status is a stark reminder of how important it is to develop sensible policies to fix the economy. I remind the hon. Gentleman that Moody’s recognises that the UK’s creditworthiness remains extremely high and points to the strong track record of fiscal consolidation. Were it not for that, we would be on a negative outlook, rather than a stable one.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I am glad to see that the Secretary of State is reading from a script today. No doubt, he is not trusted to make off-the-cuff comments again. I wish him a dydd gwyl Dewi hapus. What will life be like from April, after dydd gwyl Dewi, for the 170,000 working families who will lose their tax credits thanks to his Government, who prefer to give the money to millionaires?

[Mr Jones]

After April, many more families in Wales will benefit from historically high levels of employment and lower taxes. I remind the hon. Lady that since we came to power, 1.1 million people in Wales are paying less tax and 109,000 people are paying no tax at all.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

1. If he will meet Digital UK to discuss the adequacy of levels of service experienced by television viewers in north-east Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)]

I am always happy to meet relevant organisations to discuss issues affecting levels of services provided to the people of Wales.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I thank the Minister for his response. Digital UK is funded by the TV licence but the level of service it has been offering to many of my constituents, and other people in north-east Wales, has been totally shambolic in terms of the lack of provision of English or Welsh language Welsh television services. In some cases it has even told people to buy Freesat boxes, which is pathetic. Will the Minister ensure that the situation is sorted pronto, and that if Digital UK carries on being that pathetic it will be required to fund those Freesat boxes? The situation in north-east Wales is unsustainable.

[Stephen Crabb]

I am aware that in certain parts of Wales there are specific issues concerning the reception of digital television, and that some communities cannot receive the full suite of digital channels that most people receive. I understand that most of those problems are relatively straightforward to sort out, but where there are persistent problems I will be more than happy to meet the hon. Lady and Digital UK, and possibly Ofcom, which may be more appropriate in that respect,

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

I am very sympathetic to that indeed. Of course, the first two years were pilot years in which the programme was not available throughout England. We are now rolling it out on a much wider scale and the whole country will be covered by the NCS in 2013 and 2014. I am confident that there will be significantly more places available in East Sussex, and I shall look particularly at the position in Hastings and Rye.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

12. The NCS is the Prime Minister’s flagship policy for volunteering and the big society. Is it not therefore a bit ironic that it is primarily being run by Serco, a private company?

[Mr Maude]

The hon. Lady is quite simply wrong. Serco has had no involvement whatsoever. It will be involved in some of the regions in the forthcoming—[Interruption.] There seems to be a certain amount of interest in this. Serco is in a partnership with voluntary organisations and it is the lead organisation in a minority. Most of the regions are being led by voluntary and community sector organisations, two of them by consortia of further education colleges. I hope the hon. Lady will welcome that.

Votes for 16 and 17-year-olds

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Julie Elliott]

I could not agree more with that valuable point, which I will address.

Some 16 and 17-year-olds hold positions of great responsibility and already contribute much to our society, and they should be given the opportunity to influence key decisions that directly affect their lives and communities. We should ensure that they and their issues are represented.

In law, as a society, we already allow 16 and 17-year-olds to give full consent to medical treatment, to leave school and enter work or training, to pay income tax and national insurance, to obtain tax credits and welfare benefits in their own right, to consent to sexual relationships, to get married or enter a civil partnership, to change their name by deed poll, to become a director of a company, to join the armed forces and to become a member of a trade union or co-operative society. Granting them the vote would align their responsibilities with their rights as citizens. Surely, it cannot be right that we ask a young man or woman to serve their country bravely by joining the armed forces without recognising their contribution or giving them the choice to influence their future in return.

There is an old American saying: no taxation without representation. As a citizen benefiting from this country, 16 and 17-year-olds are expected to pay tax yet, by being excluded from the right to vote, they have no say on how that money is spent. With rights come responsibilities, but it should work both ways: with responsibilities should come rights.

Across the country, 16 and 17-year-olds are demonstrating that they can make such complex decisions and take on wide-ranging responsibilities. They are actively showing, in practice, their willingness to make a positive difference and contribution to our society. We should give them the chance to make a difference by empowering them further through recognising their right to influence decisions that will affect their future. That is also reflected in public opinion. In a recent poll carried out by The Daily Telegraph, 53% of the population said that they are in favour of lowering the voting age to 16.

I pay tribute to the fantastic work of the Votes at 16 coalition on promoting and raising awareness of the issue. The coalition is made up of more than 70 organisations, including the British Youth Council, the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, the Trades Union Congress, the Co-operative and the National Union of Students.

Lowering the voting age to 16 would further encourage youth democratic engagement. There are more than 1.5 million 16 and 17-year-olds in this country.

As the Member of Parliament for Sunderland Central, I often visit schools in my constituency to talk to students and young people about my job and what it means to represent them. The 16 and 17-year-olds I have met on such visits have shown that they are knowledgeable and interested in the world around them—from the Arab spring in the middle east and the effects of climate change to youth provisions in their own neighbourhoods. They are also passionate people: passionate to learn more and to participate. They have demonstrated to me that they are more than capable of engaging with the democratic system, as much as any other citizen.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the problems that we have in this country is voter turnout? When I was elected, turnout was 65% of those on the electoral register; in the first election in the area in which I voted, turnout was 83%. That is one of the important reasons, as sixth-form students at Ysgol Dinas Brân, who put me through my paces at election time, reminded me.

[Julie Elliott]

Anything we can do to encourage people to participate is a good thing for our democratic process.

Some 16 and 17-year-olds have carried out their own research into the issue and have ended up lobbying me on my visits about their right to vote. Last month, we saw members of the Youth Parliament take to our usual seats in the House of Commons. More than 300 members from across the UK, elected by their peers, participated in debates. More than 250,000 young people aged between 11 and 18 years old voted for the issues they wanted to see debated, which is a huge increase on the 65,000 votes the previous year. Those young people, representing their peers and their equivalent constituencies, did themselves proud. They were an inspiration to watch and could give some of us a run for our money.

Since the introduction of citizenship classes, that rise in democratic processes among young people is far from unusual. Across the country, thousands of 16 and 17-year-olds are coming together to engage in direct democracy and to encourage community participation and leadership. In the last academic year, more than 590,000 young people voted in youth elections, and 85% of young people now go to a school with a school council that works with staff to make positive improvements to the school. We might also note that both the Labour party and the Conservative party give their members the right to vote for the leader of their political party from the age of 15.

A generation of 16 and 17-year-olds are emerging from the education system well equipped to understand, engage and participate in democracy. Every 16-year-old receiving school education will have completed citizenship classes, so they know and understand the principles of democracy. We would, of course, hope that lowering the voting age will further their interest in politics. Turnouts are already low among young people in our elections. Engaging them earlier in the process would, I hope, raise participation, thereby helping to raise turnouts in elections.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr David]

The objective analysis of likely voter depletion shows that there is unlikely to be uniformity throughout the county. We are likely to see a marked contrast between the rural and urban areas, as I said earlier. If my hon. Friend wants to break it down to regions, I think that there will be a great contrast between the number of electors who will be able to vote in the north-east of England and the number in the south-east of England. That reflects the differences in movement, in demographic trends and in the social and class structure. A particular concern has been expressed about London. Greater London has the greatest amount of movement of individuals and is thus likely to be the area where the greatest number of people who are entitled to vote are not on the electoral register. I would contend that the greatest contrast is likely to be between Greater London and more affluent parts of the south-east of England; let us be blunt about that.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

One thing that concerns many of us regards the fact that it is already perfectly possible for electors who wish to register for postal votes to do so for just one election. Is there not therefore a presumption that people who want the long-term postal vote for reasons of sickness, old age or working away will want it more permanently? Surely the presumption is already there, so it is bizarre that the Government are even thinking of changing it.

[Mr David]

That is an excellent point. The presumption among many people—indeed, dare I say it, among most people—is that once a person is on the electoral register, they are there not for one or two elections but permanently. Most people in this country will not have a clue about this profound change in the nature of the electoral registration system. We need only to consider the lack of press interest and coverage on the subject for months to see that. Given that the Bill was one of the key pieces of legislation in the Queen’s Speech, there has been virtually no press coverage of it, and it is from the press that most people get their information. There is indeed a potential problem here.

We will discuss financing in greater detail later, but when the responsibility is placed very much on the shoulders of local authorities and electoral registration officers, and the resources that are likely to be allocated will not be ring-fenced and will be pretty small anyhow, the concern is that local authorities will not have the capacity to make the superhuman effort needed to chase up those people who they manage to detect have not re-registered under the new system, even though they are entitled to be on the register. There is a host of interconnected problems before us and I thank Members for their interventions. In their different ways, they have highlighted the complexities and the potential problems that lie ahead. The way forward for postal vote carry-overs was clearly set out by the all-party Select Committee, and I very much hope the Government will have second thoughts.

Industrial Action

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

My hon. Friend is right. The public sector is as much the real world as any other, but in the private sector, staff would have to pay a very significant part of their salary––more than a third––in contributions to buy pensions as good as these. We want these to continue to be among the very best pension schemes available. That is why we are pushing forward these reforms, with a settlement for a generation, so that future Governments will not have to clear up the mess the last Government left behind.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that it is fair and legitimate for the wider British public to know when he personally took part in negotiations with unions? I heard what he said earlier, but in the interests of transparency, should he not publish this information?

[Mr Maude]

I say again to the hon. Lady that there are formal negotiations on a continuing basis within the schemes. There are many informal contacts that happen on a continuing basis. Those are kept confidential, not at my request but at that of the TUC, and I will continue to honour that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think my hon. Friend is entirely right. It is a very fair offer to hard-working public servants to say, “This is a strong set of pension reforms that will give you pensions that are still better than anything available in the private sector.” Frankly, to have a Labour Front-Bench team who are silent on this issue, with their education spokesman actually encouraging teachers to strike, is the height of irresponsibility.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Q4. My constituents Alan and Linda Eastwood have a son who has been serving in our nation’s armed forces in Afghanistan. In common with the Royal British Legion, Mr and Mrs Eastwood regard the Prime Minister’s decision to abolish the post of chief coroner as a betrayal. Will the Prime Minister tell us why he thinks he is right on this issue and the Royal British Legion is wrong?

[The Prime Minister]

This is a very important issue, and I have had discussions with the Royal British Legion about it, as has my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor. The point about it is that the current proposal for the office of chief coroner to be established would involve something like £10 million of spending, and we think the money would be better spent on improving all coroners’ services across the country. We are listening very carefully to the concerns expressed in both Houses of Parliament about this issue, but what really matters is: are we going to improve the performance of our coroners? That is what service families want; that is what I want; and that is what we will deliver.

Public Bodies Bill [Lords]

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I wish to speak up for our one Welsh language television channel, S4C. I call for the provisions that affect it to be totally removed from the Bill. How did they come to be included? Was the plan for S4C’s future the result of meticulous thought, planning and consultation? No. It was a backdoor deal between Ministers from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, who declared that they had never actually seen the channel, but had a liking for Fireman Sam, and the BBC, on the eve of the comprehensive spending review. The BBC offered up S4C as a concession—an appetiser in the face of Government threats of much deeper cuts. This deal was the result.

The Government announced that they would slash direct funding by 94% and shoehorn S4C into a so-called “partnership” deal with the BBC, which would pick up some of the shortfall. The BBC has agreed to top up funding to 75% of previous levels until 2015; after that, S4C will have to pitch for funds and the BBC will be free to do what it wants, even though its own funding is guaranteed for much longer.

The Government have had to throw S4C into the Public Bodies Bill to get their plan through because S4C’s funding is currently protected by law. S4C’s status and funding were set in law in recognition of the crucial role that it plays in protecting and promoting a language classified as “vulnerable” by no less august a body than UNESCO—a language that has steadily disappeared from communities over the last 100 years and is now spoken by just over 20% of Welsh people, down from 60% at the dawn of the 20th century.

Welsh does have a future, however. Its use is now rising for the first time in living memory—precisely because of hard-fought initiatives like S4C. The cross-party Welsh Affairs Committee, of which I am a member under the august chairmanship of the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies)—I hope he will be a right hon. Member one day—stated in the plainest possible terms in its recent report that S4C has played a

“key part… in bolstering the everyday use of the Welsh language”,

and concluded that S4C

“brought the Welsh language into many homes where it may not have been heard previously.”

[Helen Goodman]

My hon. Friend is making an eloquent case in citing the private deals made by the Ministers in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. Has she considered the possibility that they took account of the views of News International and the plurality issue?

[Susan Elan Jones]

They probably took as much account of those factors as they appear to have taken of everything else involving S4C.

[Alun Cairns]

May I return the hon. Lady to her point about funding? She claimed that S4C had suffered a 94% cut, but if we are to have a sensible debate about this important issue, should we not recognise the reality, which is that it will be subject to cuts of 6% per annum for the next four years? That is much better than what is happening to many other public sector departments, and should be sufficient for it to deliver its objectives. Does the hon. Lady regret the fact that over the last 13 years there has not been adequate scrutiny—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I believe that the hon. Gentleman hopes to catch my eye later. He cannot make his speech now.

[Susan Elan Jones]

The hon. Gentleman could have made a much better intervention about funding. If the intervention that he made was intended merely to back up his party’s crib sheet, I do not think that that was very sensible. He could have pointed out that yesterday the Department said that it would remove the reference to S4C from schedule 4 and give it a clause of its own, but, unbelievably, no additional funds and no commitment to funding after 2015.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I would love to, but I am conscious that from now on there is no more injury time.

The Select Committee concluded that

“S4C provides value for money.”

This is no sweet little niche cultural project that is propped up out of the kindness of taxpayers’ hearts. The channel is already cutting costs, and has overheads of only 4.5%, compared to 12% at the BBC. It is popular and well watched. According to the Select Committee, its

“share of the viewing audience during peak times”

is holding up “remarkably well”, and viewing figures for key programmes compare favourably with those for their English language equivalents.

On top of all that, the channel supports 2,000 Welsh jobs and contributes £90 million to the Welsh economy. This is not an institution in desperate need of top-down reform. The Bill, however, will impose catastrophic changes that will not even comply with its own aims. Ministers talk the language of sustainability, but they refuse to guarantee S4C’s future beyond 2015. They talk about accountability and transparency, but this move will take S4C’s funding out of direct Government control and hand it over to an arm’s-length body. They talk about maintaining S4C’s independence—where have we heard about the independence of the media before?—but they have announced no change in the law on BBC Trust responsibility for every penny of the licence fee. The whole plan was drawn up on the back of an envelope by people with no knowledge of S4C or the language that it promotes, who wanted to cut costs without worrying about the consequences. S4C deserves better.

I am not saying that we cannot have a debate about improving S4C. Indeed, we appear to have been engaging in such a debate for the best part of the last year, and I think that that is right, as is the independent review. The first step, however, is to remove S4C from the Bill altogether. I will vote for its removal as soon as I get the chance, and I hope that the whole House will join me in doing so.