European Council

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I did not say that there are no lessons to learn; I think there are lessons to learn. The Government are carrying out a lessons learned process and will be announcing the key results from it. The point my hon. Friend makes about what you are able to do and how you build alliances to do what you want to do is absolutely vital—and was vital in this case. What I was trying to say—perhaps I did not put it across properly—is that we have to be careful not to say that because Libya was successful in this way, we can read that across to every single other proposed intervention. We cannot do that. As a liberal Conservative, I believe that a bit of scepticism should be brought to these schemes before we embark on them.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

For the sake of absolute clarity, is it now this Prime Minister’s position that he could accept substantial German-led changes to the Lisbon treaty without it requiring the referendum he promised the British people?

[The Prime Minister]

The key point is this. If there is a proposal for moving powers from this House of Commons to Brussels, there is a referendum guarantee. It is absolutely vital that people understand that; it is the promise that we make. We do not yet know whether treaty change will definitely be proposed; we do not yet know what it will consist of or how big it will be. The pledge I can make is that we will use that opportunity to further the national interest—something that did not happen under 13 years of a Labour Government.

Libya

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is quite right to draw attention to the risks involved in moving from a situation in which Gaddafi is in command to one in which he is on the run and the NTC is taking over. There are all sorts of risks, and we should not be complacent or over-confident about what will follow. All I would say is that those who warned that Libya was a country riven with tribal loyalties, divided between Benghazi and Tripoli and prone to extreme Islam have so far not been proven correct. This revolution was not about extreme Islamism; al-Qaeda played no part in it. It was about people yearning for a voice and job, and it is our duty to get behind them and help them to build that new country.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

As the Prime Minister has suggested, some of the rebels have an al-Qaeda past. We all want good relations with the new Libya, but does he agree that it is important that the House has as much information as possible about the history of those who are now assuming positions of power, so that we know exactly who we are dealing with?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course that information is valuable and, as I have said, we should not be naive and think we are dealing with just one type of people; we are dealing with all sorts of different people. Encouraging people who have a strong belief in the Muslim faith into a democratic role, rather than a violent role, is the right approach. Obviously, there are concerns about where that can lead, but when we look at a country such as Turkey, whose Government have some pedigree out of Muslim politics, we see that that can be compatible with a very successful democracy.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

A number of Members have said that we all bear some responsibility for our relations with the press, which are sometimes uneasy. That is also true of our relations with the police. At times, Members are anxious about criticising the police lest they appear to be expressing a lack of support. At other times, we are fulsome in our praise when there is a need for criticism.

I think of myself as someone who supports the police, but there are lessons to be learned from what happened at the Met in this unhappy episode. There are serious questions about managerial control at the Met, and that will be a consideration when the next commissioner is appointed. I was struck by the way in which Lord Blair, the former commissioner, wanted immediately to distance himself from the original inquiry, and did not want to have anything to do with it. I accept that he did not have operational control, but he was the guy in charge. I was struck by the way in which Andy Hayman seemed to be in charge of the inquiry, but not remotely in control of what was happening. John Yates did not seem to be at all clear about what Sir Paul Stephenson had asked him to do when he conducted an eight-hour mini-review. Mr Fedorcio seemed to run the public affairs directorate as an odd-job man might recruit customers—it was almost unbelievable.

We need better managerial control at the Met. It is astonishing that no one thought to ask a question about the fact that 10 of the 45 employees in the public affairs directorate were ex-News International. Anywhere else, that would be a question worth asking. The way in which Mr Wallis was awarded a contract worth £1,000 a day is open to question, too. The fact that in the midst of investigations senior officers could have dinners with people who might be directly relevant to their inquiries seems astonishing.

I do not see that the Mayor has played a particularly useful role, with his reference to codswallop and his attempt to roll back. I mention this because the Mayor is the model for police commissioners that the Home Secretary wants to impose on the rest of the country, and the Mayor seems to have played no useful part in terms of accountability during this process. What looks like one of the least accountable forces in the country is set to become the model for the rest of the country. There is an argument that, even at this late stage, the Government should think again about the problem.

[Andrew Selous]

Will the hon. Gentleman explain to the House how he thinks a police force is more accountable to an unelected official than to an elected one?

[Steve McCabe]

That is not really the point. The point that I am making is that in the face of this enormous scandal, the man who was supposed to make the police more accountable did nothing about it.

If Lord Macdonald is right about what he saw in the file, sadly some officers will have to go to jail to restore public confidence. There is no way in which that can be swept under the carpet now.

I echo the points made by the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), and by my colleague on the Committee, the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison), about victims. At the core of the problem is the way people were treated. Unless additional resources are devoted to identifying the victims and something is done about that, the stench associated with these events will never go away. While there is doubt about whether all the people who have been mistreated have been accounted for, the problem will not go away. There will be no closure until we identify all the victims and they are properly and fairly treated. I urge the Government to think about that aspect.

In criticising the police, we should not forget the pressures they were under at the time, with the incredible terrorist threat that was sweeping the country. We should not underestimate the pressures that ordinary rank and file officers feel they are under because of the cuts and the relentless pace of change that the Government are imposing on them. We need to recognise that wrongdoers must be punished and failure in all its forms in the police must be addressed, but ordinary officers need a break from the relentless attack on honourable policing traditions, which is the problem now afflicting police forces throughout the country.

In the light of what we have experienced in this horrible affair, there is a chance to pause and think again about some of the things that are happening to other forces at this time. It would be a tragedy if we did not learn anything from the experience and went on to create conditions in other forces that mean that the same problems are repeated elsewhere at some point in the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

They were irrelevant because the person who was making the decision was myself, and I was making it on my own. This was not a matter of collective responsibility. This was a quasi-judicial process. I wish I could take more decisions completely on my own without any reference to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor or other Cabinet colleagues. This is the only such decision I have ever been privileged to make.

[Steve McCabe]

I do not believe that any discussion that the Prime Minister has is irrelevant. But is the right hon. Gentleman confirming that the Prime Minister did have discussions about BSkyB, and will he tell us who he had them with and what they were about?

[Mr Hunt]

I will confirm that the Prime Minister had no inappropriate conversations with Rebekah Brooks at any time.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. The Opposition came here with a choice. They could have risen to the scale of events, helped to deal with the problem and responded to what our constituents care about, but instead we have heard a litany of rather pathetic conspiracy theories to try to win a political game, and that has been a complete and utter failure.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Have Sir Paul Stephenson and John Yates had to pay too high a price for Andy Coulson’s second chance?

[The Prime Minister]

If you look at the evidence of Sir Paul Stephenson, whom I respect enormously and who did some very good things at the Met—and John Yates—he said very clearly yesterday that the circumstances surrounding his resignation were completely different from the circumstances in No. 10 Downing street. The responsibility that I had for hiring Andy Coulson, the work that he did at No. 10, the fact that he is not there any more—we have discussed this a lot today—are, I would argue, completely different from the issues at the Met about a failed police investigation, allegations of police corruption, very serious problems in that organisation and all the reasons that Paul Stephenson set out yesterday, I respect what he did, but he himself said that the situations are different.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. One of the key benchmarks for success of the scheme is creating the right social mix on residential courses. The aim is to create opportunities for young people to meet people they would never otherwise expect to meet. That is very much part of the obligation on our providers and we are monitoring it very closely.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I welcome this initiative, but does the Minister agree that the Government need to do much more to prevent a repeat of the ‘80s, when so many young people ended up on the scrapheap?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his constructive engagement with the national citizen service concept. I obviously reject his thesis and would point him to the investment in apprenticeships and everything else that we are doing. I urge him not to underestimate the potential of this programme to transform young people’s sense of what they can achieve.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 24th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

5. What steps he is taking to maintain the capacity of the Serious Fraud Office to investigate and prosecute economic crime during the comprehensive spending review period.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

6. What steps he is taking to ensure the effective prosecution of cases involving fraud and economic crime.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

7. What steps he is taking to maintain the capacity of the Serious Fraud Office to investigate and prosecute economic crime during the comprehensive spending review period.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Attorney-General]

I am not quite sure that I see the direct correlation between the second part of the hon. Gentleman’s question and the first. On the structure of the Serious Fraud Office, it is certainly my opinion that the present structure has been successful in delivering growing effectiveness in dealing with serious and complex fraud. The director has an important point to make. The Government are discussing how they can achieve the best structures for dealing with serious and complex crimes of all kinds, and discussions are taking place on how the Serious Fraud Office will fit into that structure. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the point that he has raised is very much in the Government’s mind.

[Steve McCabe]

Nevertheless, the director of the Serious Fraud Office has major concerns. If the Attorney-General is determined to pursue this route, what assurance can he give the House that the impact of the change on complex crime prosecutions will be monitored, so that it does not have the effect that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) is concerned about?

[The Attorney-General]

The hon. Gentleman pre-judges a decision that has not been made. It is sensible within government for discussion to take place on how to improve the services, including prosecution, that the Government deliver. My point in reply to the earlier question was that the director has an important role in contributing to that debate, and I am sure that his views will be listened to very carefully. I certainly listen to them very carefully indeed.

House of Lords Reform (Draft Bill)

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That is a rather good argument for the case, which was criticised earlier, of non-renewable terms: such Members will not stand again or, of course, in the same constituencies. We will have constituencies—certainly, after the boundaries are changed—where each of us represents just over 70,000-odd; they will seek to represent half a million-odd. It will be a completely different contest, held on a different mandate, under a different system, for a different term, and I believe that millions of British voters will be easily able to distinguish between one and the other and to keep the two separate in their own minds.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I think that this is the wrong priority at the wrong time, but if the Deputy Prime Minister is confident that we need another constitutional adventure, why does he not test whether that is the will of the House?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The final Bill, which we will bring forward after it has been subject to pre-legislative scrutiny by a Joint Committee of the two Houses, will come to this House for a vote.

[Steve McCabe]

Now. I mean now.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman says “now”, but we have been criticised in the past for pushing forward with changes too quickly and not subjecting them to sufficient scrutiny. What we are doing now is moving very deliberately, very methodically and as consensually as possible, presenting a Bill with our best guess of what would work legislatively; keeping the options on some key issues open in the White Paper; and then inviting a cross-party Joint Committee to subject that to full scrutiny in the months ahead. I do not think that we can be criticised either for moving too fast or for seeking to escape from proper scrutiny.

Japan and the Middle East

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend speaks with great passion about these issues. The point I would make about the lessons of Iraq, which a lot of people mention, is that no one here is talking about, and the Libyan opposition are not asking for, ground troops, invasions or anything like that; they are asking for a no-fly zone. But I think there is a lesson from Iraq, and it is this: if you talk to a lot of people in the Gulf, they will say, “If you don’t actually show your support for the Libyan people and for democracy at this time, in a way you’re saying you will intervene when it is only about your security, but you won’t help when it is about our democracy,” We need to bear that in mind in drawing the lessons, as people say, from Iraq.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Was there any discussion at the European Council about the desirability of EU nations now recognising the opposition as a legitimate power in Libya?

[The Prime Minister]

There was a discussion about that, and the Council’s conclusions talk about the Benghazi council being a legitimate political interlocutor, which is important. The French have obviously formally recognised that organisation. As for Britain’s position, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, we recognise countries rather than Governments, but we want a dialogue and to have contact with the Libyan opposition, so we will be going ahead with that. We do, however, have a different legal position of recognising countries, not Governments.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

The Deputy Prime Minister was asked—

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of coalition Government under the UK’s constitutional arrangements.

[The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)]

The coalition Government are sorting out the mess they inherited from the previous—[Interruption.] This always gets Opposition Members going from the beginning. The coalition Government are sorting out the mess they inherited from the previous Administration, including a woefully unreformed political system. That is why we are giving power back to Parliament by establishing five-year fixed-term Parliaments, why we are offering the public a choice, for the first time, on using a different and fairer electoral system, and why we will create fairer, more equal-sized constituencies in time for the next election.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I beg the right hon. and learned Lady’s pardon, and I also beg Mr McCabe’s pardon as we have not yet heard from him and we want to do so. I call Mr Steve McCabe.

[Steve McCabe]

I feel so let down, Mr Speaker.

In her paper comparing the coalition to a difficult marriage, Miss van der Laan advises Back Benchers that they should

“never take advice from those who have secured Government jobs because their self-interest clouds their judgment.”

Is she right?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman asked, “Is he right?”, but Lousewies van der Laan is a lady; I think we should get such facts right. As I have said, two parties have come together to repair the damage left by one; it is as simple as that.

Prisoners’ Right to Vote

Steve McCabe Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend should know that the European Court of Human Rights is based in Strasbourg, and that this is nothing to do with the European Union. The two issues are completely separate. We have been a signatory to the European convention on human rights for the best part of 60 years. Indeed, British lawyers helped to draft it after the second world war. There are currently more than 1,000 pending cases, and there is a real risk that judges will award millions of pounds in damages to be paid by our taxpayers to prisoners who have been denied the vote. That risk has been left to us by the inaction of the previous Government.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

What estimate have the Government made of the cost to the honest law-abiding taxpayer of their decision to run up the white flag on this issue?

[Mr Harper]

As I said, the previous Government and this Government have both accepted that the Government generally have to comply with the law. We are considering how to comply with it, and we will announce our decisions in due course. This is not a choice; it is an obligation. The hon. Gentleman needs to understand that the only way of avoiding this would be if he were prepared to leave the European convention, which his Front Benchers are not prepared to do.