National Health Service

Steve Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hepburn]

I am sure people in the area are extremely grateful for that statement of support and commitment and that pledge from the shadow Secretary of State. I only hope he will become Secretary of State.

The Government and the management of the NHS are not incompetent. They are acting deliberately. The 27,000 patients in Jarrow who now go to the walk-in centre will have to go to the doctors’ surgeries, where it is difficult enough already to get an appointment. That will only exacerbate the problem. When they go down to A and E, which is doing a terrific job, the situation will only get worse. The Government know exactly what they are doing. They are trying to sicken people of the NHS so that they can turn round and say, “The NHS is not working. We will bring in the private sector to help out and to take it over.” That is the policy of this Government.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Under the previous Government, my predecessor was not able to prevent the closure of A and E. If Labour is in government, I shall remember his speech today and the promise that was given to him, and I shall watch closely what happens.

[Mr Hepburn]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that after that pledge I will certainly be watching the shadow Secretary of State when he gets in, to make sure our walk-in centre is still going.

Who gains from the present situation? Only two lots of people—the Tories, many of whom are up to their necks in involvement with private health care providers, and the profiteers, the health care providers, who are going to come in and cherry-pick the best services so that they can make profits. I welcome the shadow Secretary of State’s statement and commitment today. It will boost the morale of the people of the north-east who are so desperate to keep the service.

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[Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)]

It is intriguing to follow the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless). I will leave my intrigue at that point and focus on the debate rather than him.

It is a shame that the shadow Secretary of State has left the Chamber, as I was about to say something relatively pleasant and polite about him—he will not hear it now. When he came up to Lancaster and Fleetwood a few weeks ago he joined me in praising my local A and E department, which had seen 97% of patients within four hours, the fifth best performance in the country that week. That is a superb achievement given the complex health economy in Blackpool. It is very rare that we are at the top of a league table for the right reasons in Blackpool, whether that is for football or for health care, so I welcome that.

It was interesting to note a more hidden and nuanced message in what the shadow Secretary of State had to say. The medical director of Blackpool Victoria says that between April and September 2014, 36% of those arriving at A and E did not need to be there. They could have received their diagnosis or treatment somewhere else, and the cost to the hospital was calculated at £842,000. The message I draw from that is that we still have an immense amount of work to do to ensure that people know where to go for the right treatment at the right time. It is, of course, incumbent on us to ensure that those alternatives are resourced, that people know where to go and that people have confidence in the alternatives.

We have not spoken enough today about pharmacies. Pharmacy trade bodies and the industry put so much into lobbying Members on both sides of the House, but I think it will require another decade or so of intensive lobbying of MPs before we finally get the message that it is far better to have first recourse to the local pharmacist to see whether one needs to go further in seeking appropriate health care. I rely on regular repeat prescriptions for my epilepsy, and I have saved myself many a GP visit by asking a question at my local pharmacy. We are overlooking the most basic corner-of-our-street access point for primary health care, and we should not forget it.

I want to praise another Member of a different political party from mine, and he is sitting on the Government Front Bench: the Minister of State has already been praised today for his approach to mental health care. It is warmly welcomed, particularly in a town such as Blackpool. Our new 74-bed harbour unit is about to open on the edge of the town. It has been long-awaited, and is much-needed following some of the appalling standards of care at the Parkwood unit over the past decade.

The Minister will know that he faces great challenges. I could easily have come here today and read out a number of immensely tragic cases involving young people not getting the appropriate mental health care. He still faces a battle with the profession, because clinicians differ over their assessment of this issue. I see far too many young people with some learning disorder who are somewhere on the autistic spectrum, where the clinician refuses to accept that they can both have a learning disorder and a mental health problem. They fall into that gap and are batted backwards and forwards between different providers. There must be a battle in the medical profession over how to reconcile those two different forms of clinical diagnosis.

Another point I want to raise—I have far more than I will be able to get into my remaining four minutes—was mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns). I was struck by the shadow Secretary of State’s sudden enthusiasm for the walk-in centre in Jarrow—his instant commitment that it would be saved were Labour ever to come to power. We then heard from my right hon. Friend that these things are sometimes trickier than that—that there is more nuance, perhaps. We in this Chamber often think we know it all—don’t we? We think we know everything there is to know and that we can learn nothing from anybody else about anything in our constituency—that we are the sole experts of what is right. Occasionally it would be nice to listen to the clinicians. There might actually be a clinical argument for why a particular unit has to open, close or reconfigure, but all too often debates on the reconfiguration of services become a political football—which is exactly what my right hon. Friend was saying.

A good example is the stroke unit in Blackpool. It has been a controversial addition because it was designed to serve the entire north-west. Patients were coming down the M6 from south Cumbria, past four or five other hospitals, to get higher quality treatment in Blackpool. As the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) chuntered during the Secretary of State’s speech, the important point is that it was about outcomes. People were going to have a better chance of survival if they went to the stroke unit in Blackpool rather than their local A and E. Yet when that was debated, it was very hard to tease out the medical arguments in favour of this innovation, because all too often we were more concerned about focusing on saving bricks and mortar in our own backyards rather than on what is actually best.

[Steve Baker]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the two brands in the NHS that the public really understand above all are A and E and GPs, and all the time we are talking about A and E we are getting away from the fact that sometimes care is better provided in a specialist stroke or heart centre?

[Paul Maynard]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, which is that so many different terms are used and answers given in this Chamber and elsewhere about where patients need to go. What they actually want is reassurance and confidence that when they go somewhere they will get the right treatment at the right time that solves their problem. They do not want it to be overcomplicated, and neither do we.

We have heard a lot of criticisms of this Government’s health reforms—they seem to be very unpopular on the Opposition Benches in particular—but let me highlight two that have been very good. One of them goes back to my younger days—when I had a finer figure, perhaps. My first proper job—Opposition Members will not like this—was as a health policy officer in the Conservative research department in 1999, so I listened with delight to the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) telling me all about the wonders of his time, because I scrutinised it quite carefully on a daily basis. I used to get a monthly present from the Association of Community Health Councils for England and Wales in the form of the London “Casualty Watch”, a monthly census of trolley waits in London accident and emergency departments. It was a pretty thick document. The census detailed page after page of trolley waits of more than 24 hours, and it was a shocking indictment of how Labour was running the NHS at that time.

That situation led to one of the Labour Government’s most shameful decisions: to abolish community health councils. I know that many Labour Members are embarrassed about that even now. One of the great things about our health reforms is that we have brought back Healthwatch, which has proved to be a thorn in the side of local health providers, of Members of Parliament and of the Government. We have brought back the ability of ordinary patients to affect the nature of the care in their communities. That is happening right now in Blackpool, and it is making a difference. I am delighted about that.

Another positive element involves putting public health matters into the local council. As I have said, Blackpool faces immense public health challenges, but putting Dr Rajpura, our local director of public health, into the council has been a tremendous success. It has helped to pull together all the disparate strands within the town as we face those challenges. Again, this has happened only as a result of our health reforms.

Another example that I want briefly to mention is the fact that some of our local nurses at the hospital have spun out their rehabilitation service into a community interest company called Spiral, which is now winning awards for the quality of its patient care. I am concerned that, if Labour were to reverse all these changes, the good things we have achieved would be washed away and lost, and the people who would suffer would be my constituents, including those who have turned to Spiral for their rehabilitation. That is my real concern.

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[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I begin by paying tribute to the staff and leadership of Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust. The trust went through special measures as a result of the Keogh review, when it was found to have high mortality, and they have done a sterling job of turning the trust around. On my visit recently with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health, I found a renewed enthusiasm and optimism in the trust, and I am very grateful to the staff and leadership for delivering that outcome.

When the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) opened the debate, he asked for shared solutions, striking a markedly different tone from the usual partisan pose. I shall suggest some shared solutions later in my speech. But normal service quickly resumed. The right hon. Gentleman spoke of stories of failure. There are, of course, some stories of success, and I shall mention a few. England’s NHS has the best measured emergency care performance of any western nation, according to NHS England. Dr Sarah Pinto-Duschinsky, director of operations and delivery for NHS England, said:

“In the week ending December 28th A&E attendances were up more than 31,000 on the same period last year, meaning we successfully treated more patients in under four hours than ever before.”

I will come to why in a moment.

The Government have allocated an additional £700 million to cope with winter pressures. The College of Emergency Medicine said:

“This represents the largest annual additional funding yet seen.”

In the course of this Parliament, the NHS budget will have increased by £12.7 billion in cash terms. This additional winter pressures funding has paid for 2,500 additional beds in acute and community treatment and the equivalent of 1,000 doctors. There are almost 1,200 additional A and E doctors, including an additional 400 A and E consultants and 1,700 additional paramedics since 2010. Some 850,000 more operations are being delivered by the NHS each year compared with 2010, and numbers waiting longer than 18, 26 and 52 weeks to start treatment are lower than they were under the previous Government. It cannot reasonably be said that that is a continuous record of failure. There are considerable successes under this Government.

In an intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), I mentioned branding. One of the things that we could do is continue to tell patients that they should go where treatment can best be provided, but we see that patients stubbornly insist on going to hospital. The brand A and E is well understood; people know that if they have an urgent problem, they can go to A and E. It will take years of persuasion before people behave differently, and I do not think we should keep on persuading people to want something other than the preference they are clearly displaying by their behaviour, which I shall return to.

Let us not forget the legacy that the Government have had to cope with, including the grievous financial position that they inherited. Let us not forget that around the world special monetary measures are still in place to ensure that Governments can keep spending. We have had problems with patient care. I alluded earlier to the turnaround in Buckinghamshire; across the country, there have been special measures and turn- arounds. The BBC reported that a probe into whistleblowing has been swamped by people getting in touch. The Government have had to deal with an enormous range of cultural problems and turnarounds.

That brings me to solutions—first, funding. In Buckinghamshire there are pockets of real poverty. In my constituency in Micklefield, Castlefield, Oakridge, Bowerdean and Disraeli there are—by anyone’s standards —pockets of poverty and deprivation, but we suffer on funding because of how it has historically been calculated. It is time for us to look seriously at where the demands on A and E are coming from, and to reorientate funding towards the human factors producing that demand—that is, ageing. Where there are older populations, they should be properly funded. It is a simple matter of treating people humanely, decently and—dare I say it—equally.

Secondly, it is time for us to take seriously the documents of NHS England. I am talking about not just the urgent care review, which I have in my hand, but the “Five Year Forward View”. What we see emerging now is a clear vision of where places such as Wycombe should go. It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that we will never manage to achieve the return of an old-style A and E to Wycombe hospital. The clear reason for that, as set out by NHS England, is that the NHS is moving in a different direction. The urgent care review includes a clear model of future urgent care, with major emergency centres, emergency centres and urgent care centres.

I am not able to tell the hospital trust and the clinical commissioners what they should do, but if I could I would now have a clear understanding from NHS England’s own documents of what should be done in Wycombe. We have a very expensive public finance initiative hospital, and we need to make the most of it for the 20 years-plus that are left to run on it. We should have an urgent care centre, an enhancement of the current minor injuries unit, a pharmacy, GPs, social services, nurse practitioners, and a full set of services and diagnostics in Wycombe named in a way that the public can understand. We should be proud of the centre and encourage people in Wycombe to present there if it is the best thing for them to do. We should not turn off the 111 service, and we should provide the services that people need in the places where they present.

We cannot go on for ever pretending that we will re-educate the public to want something different; that is not going to happen. I am not suggesting that we have an enormous new surge in admissions—nobody wants that. What we should recognise is that the vast majority of people, when they are in difficulty, want quick reassurance. If the people of Wycombe were in charge, they would want our hospital to have a full range of diagnostic and treatment facilities available to them all year round, giving them peace of mind. They would not want poor quality care. I think most people would accept being stabilised and moved to the place that could give them the best care.

We have a heart attack and stroke unit. I do not suppose that many people in Aylesbury, where there is an A and E unit, would be very happy if they realised that in the event of a heart attack or stroke, they would be coming to Wycombe. But that is the point. A huge amount of confusion, waste and anxiety is being wholly unnecessarily created despite the fact that NHS England, through the forward view document and the review of urgent care, has set out a clear trajectory on how to give the public peace of mind and the right treatment in the right place—yes, close to home, but also making best use of the PFI hospitals, which are a millstone around the NHS’s neck. We should do the absolute best we can to get best value for money, which means a new generation of urgent care centres in places such as Wycombe.

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[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow such thoughtful speeches, in general, on this subject. I thank all the staff at the accident and emergency departments that serve my constituents, whether at County hospital in Stafford, Royal Stoke University hospital, New Cross hospital in Wolverhampton, or Manor hospital in Walsall.

On many occasions in the House over the past few years, the tragic events in my constituency have been referred to. Whenever they are referred to from now on, I would like people to acknowledge the enormous progress to improve health services that has been made in Stafford at what is now County hospital and throughout my constituency. It is absolutely vital that we remember what is happening now as well as where we have come from. Let us not forget that out of the Francis report has come the tremendous emphasis on patient safety and compassionate care that is vital for all our constituents. I do not want Mid Staffs to be used just as shorthand for something that was clearly very poor care; it should also be shorthand for the huge improvements that have been made by the people working there and the NHS staff in many other hospitals throughout the country.

I would like to look in a bit more detail at what this motion proposes and the reasons we are currently suffering from the huge demand on accident and emergency services, particularly in relation to out-of-hours GP services and delayed discharges. Regarding the pressures on A and Es, it has rightly been said that there are 600,000 more attendances every year, but we are finding that there are 4,000 more admissions every week—some 200,000 a year. That indicates the seriousness of the situation, because people are not admitted to hospital unless they are in a fairly serious state or seriously unwell. It shows that we are now entering a phase in which the baby boomer generation needs more acute care. We welcome the fact that people now live a lot longer, but the fact is that when people get ill in later life, they tend to be acutely ill and to have complex needs, and that results in their admission to hospital.

The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) mentioned the ratio of beds to population in the UK. We have one of the lowest ratios in Europe—we have a very efficient health service—but the idea that we can get an even lower figure is pie in the sky. In fact, we ought to go marginally in the opposite direction. We should certainly consider increasing the number of beds. Let us not forget that our patient stays in hospital are shorter than most comparable figures across Europe.

We need to bear in mind that we will get more and more admissions, and we need to have the capacity for that. As I remember only too well, I argued a few years ago that the design for the new hospital in Stoke-on-Trent would make it too small; indeed, it is too small, and we are now increasing the number of beds there.

The King’s Fund has said that only 55.4% of patients say that they know whom to contact for out-of-hours services, and such a lack of information or lack of clarity has already been mentioned. We need something straightforward and simple, and frankly, it must be available 24/7, because emergencies happen 24/7. That is why I have pushed for my A and E to reintroduce 24/7 care, rather than its current 14/7 care. People have to look at the clock to check whether it is nearly 10 pm, and then ask themselves whether the A and E will still be open or whether they will need to go elsewhere. They avoid going to another hospital because our A and E is so good, so they delay going until 8 am, by which time they may be in a worse condition. If the facility is for emergencies, it needs to be open 24/7. I welcome the fact that we will soon get an overnight doctor service. A and E needs to return to 24/7 not only in my case, but in other centres that do not offer a full-time service.

[Steve Baker]

Does my hon. Friend agree that putting GPs into such centres provides the possibility not only of having integrated care, but of treating most people who present overnight, when an A and E consultant might not be available?

[Jeremy Lefroy]

I entirely agree, which is why I welcome the introduction of an overnight doctor-led service at the County hospital in Stafford, even though I would like such services to go further. A parent whose child is sick with a temperature may not want to be a burden on the ambulance service by calling one out but will still want to be seen at that time, rather than having to wait until morning, so being able to go to such a service gives them reassurance. If the child is particularly unwell, they can then be referred to a specialist centre, but otherwise the parent can be reassured that they can wait until the morning. Such matters are vital for our constituents.

It is, indeed, a problem to get GP appointments, and it is vital that the issue is sorted out. There are wide discrepancies. In the practice I attend, I can get an appointment the next day not just because they want the local MP to be seen, but because they are very well organised and their patient load is not huge. That is simply not the case in other practices, and some people in my constituency have to wait two or three weeks for an appointment. The problem must be sorted out, and there must be evenness across the country.

GP surgeries put an additional pressure on A and Es. The statistics show that the patients of some GP surgeries attend A and E far less often than those of other surgeries, because such GPs take the time to have longer appointments and take the trouble to go through problems and deal with them on the spot, whereas others are more inclined to say, “I haven’t got the time, so you had better go to A and E.” The statistics show that for some GP surgeries the ratio of patients attending A and E is almost twice that of others in the same area and with the same demographic.

Delayed discharges have often been referred to in this debate. The figure was relatively stable until the start of 2014-15, but since then the total number of delays has risen by 19%. The King’s Fund analysis suggests that delays attributable to NHS services have risen from 60% to 68%, whereas those attributable to social care have fallen from 35% to 26%. It states:

“This suggests that capacity and workforce issues, particularly in nursing homes and non-acute services”

—within the NHS—

“are becoming more important than social care funding”.

I find that very interesting. I do not know on what evidence it is based, but the King’s Fund is a respected institution and we must look at what it says. It implies that there is an issue with integration not just between the NHS and social care, but between acute NHS services and non-acute NHS services.

So what should we do? First, we have to recognise that there will be increasing demand for complex acute care and, hence, for accident and emergency services. A and E departments therefore need to remain open and to expand. I welcome the fact that the A and E in Stafford will double under the investment plans. Secondly, we need clear pathways for out-of-hours care, rather than complicated pathways that are difficult to understand. Thirdly, we need clear information relating to those pathways. Fourthly, we need to do much more work on access to GPs and must look much more closely at the results of GPs in avoiding A and E admissions among their patients. Finally, we need to make integration a reality, not just between health and social care, but within all NHS services and social care.

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[Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con)]

It is instructive, as always, to follow the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin), and I thank him for his exposition of the positions set out around the Chamber this afternoon. I also welcome the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) in picking up on the needs of areas that might not normally be viewed as deprived, but that need attention none the less. Norwich is one such city, because it contains wards and areas of serious deprivation. I have argued on behalf of GP surgeries that serve those wards, and there is a genuine question about the way our national structures and funding serve those areas.

[Steve Baker]

Is it not odd how people who are obsessed with inequalities take levels of aggregation that hide the real suffering of individuals and families?

[Chloe Smith]

My hon. Friend makes a wise point.

Tomorrow, I am visiting a walk-in centre and the hospital that serves my constituents. When I am there, I shall be explaining, as I have several times in the House recently, my support for the NHS in Norwich and across Britain, my thanks for what the staff are doing and my understanding of what the patients, my constituents, need from the NHS.

I want to make three points in the debate. My first point is that, as many hon. Members have said this afternoon, the NHS is under unprecedented demand. It does it no disservice to acknowledge that and bring it into the debate. I for one welcome the decisions that allow for increased numbers of doctors and nurses in urgent care—that is true in the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospitals Trust; for an increased number of operations to be carried out each year—that is true everywhere in the country; and for increased hours at GP surgeries. I recently learned to my pleasure that Norwich doctors will apply for the next round of the access fund. They have not done that before and it is very welcome. The Government have made the fund available and it could be of great benefit to patients in my area.

I am also grateful to the Government for the decisions made early—earlier than ever before—that have allowed for winter pressures to be dealt with. Again, that directly benefits the area of Norfolk that contains the Norfolk and Norwich hospital. I am particularly pleased that the use of that funding will be planned jointly with local authorities through the system resilience group. That is incredibly important. I will turn to that kind of joined-up working in my final remarks.

Let me make a point about the motion. We have heard wise contributions from Back Benchers on both sides of the Chamber. For example, my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) rightly asked us not to use the name of his area as a shorthand. He is right that we ought to look much deeper. As a further example, the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) rightly spoke eloquently about mental health. Unfortunately she is not in the Chamber, but I am sure she will be back before the winding-up speeches. I intervened on her to ask why the motion does not refer in its own right to mental health; it is a great shame that it does not. The motion is 10 lines of overblown and fly-blown rhetoric. It asks for an NHS that is “fit for the future”, but makes no mention of mental health being equal to physical health, which I believe strongly. Mental health and physical health should be equal in word and deed, and in budgets. Indeed, I have been discussing that with the Minister recently through parliamentary questions.

The truth is that the motion is rather sad and inadequate. It betrays even the usual standards of political football that are played on Opposition days. The right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) said in his opening speech that it is time for honesty. To that end, we would like to know whether his party leader believes in “weaponising” the NHS. To that end, we would like an end to the shabby leaflets on the NHS that go around the country.

I would have liked mental health, which is an important topic, to replace the waste of words in the motion. The motion is a pathetic reuse of the tired and crumbling money-making policy—the mansion tax—that not even all Opposition Members agree with.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I do take responsibility, but I hope the hon. Gentleman will be responsible in his campaigning in Hartlepool and welcome the extra doctors, extra nurses, extra operations and extra number of people seen within four hours in his constituency. It is a record of success, of which this Government are proud.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

As it becomes increasingly obvious that the public insist on receiving urgent care in a hospital setting, will the Government move to incentivise the delivery of a new generation of urgent care centre, as specified in the end of the phase 1 report on the urgent and emergency care review?

[Mr Hunt]

I have visited my hon. Friend’s local hospital. I commend him for his interest and I commend the hospital for the remarkable turnaround. From being a hospital in special measures, it has done extremely well. We want to implement the proposals in that review and we want also to make sure that for the oldest and frailest people there are alternatives that mean that they do not have to visit hospital.

Five Year Forward View

Steve Baker Excerpts

Thursday 23rd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I think that is the kind of rhetoric that does the whole country a massive disservice. If the Government had the kind of views about the NHS that the hon. Gentleman talks about, we would not have protected its budget during the most difficult recession we have had since the second world war. We actually increased the NHS budget over that period, because we believe in the NHS. With regard to what he says about the report, the chief executive of NHS England, a former Labour special adviser, said this, and it is a fact: “Over the past five years, despite growing pressure, the NHS has been remarkably successful.” That is what Labour people are saying.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I very much welcome the plans for urgent and emergency care set out on page 4, in paragraph 10, which ought to produce a solution that could be welcomed in Wycombe hospital and more than 20 similar hospitals across the country. When the proposals are taken forward, will my right hon. Friend ensure that they are explained to people in such a way that they can have real peace of mind that urgent and emergency care will be there for them?

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend, as ever, makes an important point. I do not think that we have been as good as we should have been in the NHS about explaining changes to urgent and emergency care, and people are understandably worried if they think that there is any risk that they will not be able to see a doctor in an emergency, which is what the NHS is there to do. I think that we now have a better blueprint for urgent and emergency care, but the report also recognises that it is not sustainable to say that all urgent and emergency care will always be dealt with in A and E departments. We have to find a way to improve the capacity of primary care and make it easier for people to see their GP so that we can reduce the pressure on hard-pressed A and Es.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 21st October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Dr Poulter]

For some more specialist services, collaboration between various parts of the local NHS will always be needed. That is about good health care commissioning and ensuring that services are joined up in a collaborative way. Whereas day-to-day, bread-and-butter services will be commissioned by a local CCG, for more specialist services, clinical commissioners will of course need to work together to ensure that local centres of excellence are commissioned.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

The sustainability of NHS facilities is often prejudiced by the millstone of Labour’s private finance initiative deals. What is the Government’s expectation of how CCGs should make the best of the hand that they have been dealt?

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that PFI deals signed by the previous Government have crippled the finances of many hospital trusts, meaning that many of them are unable to invest as much in front-line patient care as they would like. It is important that the Government support the mitigation of PFI deals, when possible, and we have a group that is doing exactly that and supporting local commissioners to deal with the worst excesses of the previous Government’s mismanagement of the NHS finances.

Mitochondrial Replacement (Public Safety)

Steve Baker Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con)]

Perhaps I could turn the last comment the other way round. I do not want to be standing here, or sitting at home in my dotage, saying, “Why didn’t we do something when we could have?” That is what we are looking at. We have the same problems with many issues relating to human fertilisation and embryos. We have heard these arguments in the House before. We have heard the speculation and the unsupported fears. Although I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on raising this debate, the scares that she raised are as unsupported as anything we have ever heard. I also congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Havant (Mr Willetts) on his contribution. He saved us an enormous amount of time because he covered the key points and nailed them to the floor. The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) reminded us just how long we have been examining this issue. Action is now overdue. I will now completely ruin the political career of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) and say that I support him.

Today, we are talking about a real opportunity to help thousands of children by taking out of the system, over time, an inherited condition. We are talking about a gene transfer through nuclei, and the 0.1% that was mentioned is motor functional; it is not inherited genes. It is an opportunity to have two parents and not, as the media would have it, three parents.

The media has to take some of the blame. We have discussed these complex issues of fertilisation and embryos and so on, and the scaremongering has been appalling. There is scaremongering not only by individuals—I am not necessarily talking about the ones who write in green ink—but by the media. I was shocked to hear this nonsense about three-parent babies, on which the hon. Member for Cambridge touched. We are not talking about three-parent babies. This is an opportunity to put through these regulations. We are a bit early because we have not yet seen them or the results of the consultation. We have not even seen the Government’s reaction to them. None of us here—not even the hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton (Jim Dobbin) who spoke about the American situation—knows what will happen or is an expert on the matter. None the less there are experts who are reviewing this and coming forward with recommendations. They know and understand the subject a lot better than we do. We have to take their guidance and expertise. By the way, a comment was made about the Americans putting this matter on the backburner, but that was a different situation from what is under discussion now.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making his argument with characteristic force. I am just mindful that in the Library brief there was a particular insight from an evolutionary biologist suggesting that there was a real danger of DNA mismatching between the mitochondrial DNA and the nuclear DNA. Is he satisfied that the insights of evolutionary biology have been fully and adequately taken into account in this area?

[Sir Paul Beresford]

If my hon. Friend looks at the research, I think he will find that that will have been looked at. From my limited knowledge—my knowledge is limited but it may be slightly greater than that of my hon. Friend—I suspect that such a mismatch would mean that the nucleus and the cytoplasm with the mitochondria would fail and an ovum would not be produced from it, but I could be wrong. I am speculating in the same way as my hon. Friend did. At the end of the day, we have an opportunity to change the rules to allow this research to progress. We must recognise that we have some of the best teams in this field in the world. We lead the field, and this provides us with an opportunity to continue to lead for the benefit of those many children. It will enable us carefully to continue with the research with the appropriate safety factors built in, so I am adamantly opposed to the motion.

Hospital Car Parking Charges

Steve Baker Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Robert Halfon]

My hon. Friend highlights the problem exactly. It applies not only to the parents of premature babies but to people with cancer. Indeed, 10% of hospitals do not give people with cancer any kind of concession at all.

There is also a problem of transparency. No one knows why such huge increases in charges are taking place, and no one knows exactly what the money is being spent on. Southend hospital, in Essex, charges £2.50 for the first hour’s parking. It was highlighted on BBC Essex recently that the hospital had spent more than £7 million on a new multi-storey car park. Even Harrods and Selfridges would not spend £7 million on a car park. The hospital increased its charges in 2011 and raked in nearly £1.4 million in parking fees alone. It was never envisaged that hospital parking should become a cash cow or a tax on the vulnerable and the sick.

We should also remember that it is not only the patients, the vulnerable and those who are visiting them in hospital who face this stealth tax. It is also a tax on nurses, who are paying an average of £200 a month just to park their cars so that they can do their job. If we had to pay that amount to park our cars here at the House of Commons, I am sure that the practice would be stopped immediately. I also want to mention the concessions for people with disabilities. We often need a PhD to understand all the different rules and regulations involved. We need clear guidelines, and I welcome what the Government have said about this over the past week.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

I want to set in context what my hon. Friend has just said about the scale of these charges. I have just checked the cost of parking at Chiltern Railways’ new multi-storey car park in Wycombe, and it is only £7.50 a day. I say “only” because that seems quite good value given that some people are paying £500 a week for hospital parking. Does he share my amazement that hospitals manage to provide so little parking for so much expense?

[Robert Halfon]

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. As I have said, this has become an easy way for hospital bosses to raise money, and there has been no dialogue with the public about it.

People say that the money could be spent elsewhere, but I believe that hospital parking is as much a front-line service as anything else. It is as important as how many nurses and doctors there are. I am glad that the Government have spent an extra £12.5 billion and that there are 3,000 extra nurses since the coalition came to power, but hospital parking is as much a front-line issue as those things and it should be put into the general pot of NHS spending. It should be taken into account in the same way as spending on nurses and doctors and on machinery. That is often forgotten.

The hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) said that no one goes to hospital out of choice; people go because they have to, or because they have to visit relatives or friends. They should not suffer in the way that they do. They should not have to face the stress involved. Many of my constituents have contacted me to tell me of the stress they face when, having paid at the car park machine, they have to wait for a doctor’s appointment that should have been at, say, 11 but does not take place until 1 o’clock. Through no fault of their own, they have to pay extra car parking charges as a result. How can that be right? Again, I welcome what the Government have said about that.

We need to look at this as part of the front-line spending on the NHS. Estimates suggest that it would cost between £200 million and £250 million to scrap hospital parking charges. I believe that the Government should set up a special fund, possibly paid for by using more generic drugs, and I urge the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) to look at that proposal. I welcome the fact that he has listened, and that the Government have published some really tough guidelines for hospitals. I recognise that they are not the ten commandments; they are not written down on tablets of stone, and we cannot force hospitals to comply with them. They are the next best thing, however.

I put it to my hon. Friend the Minister that if hospitals do not comply with the guidelines, and that if they continue to fail to offer proper concessions to people with disabilities, to use hospital parking as a stealth tax on the vulnerable, to charge their staff for parking and to perpetuate the lack of transparency which means that no one can understand what the revenue is being spent on, we should scrap hospital parking charges completely, as Opposition Members have suggested. I hope that we are already moving in that direction.

Patient Safety

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

Again, I am surprised that we do not have more agreement. If the hon. Lady looks at the figures, she will see that in the past year there have been 5,900 more nurses on our wards. Why does she not welcome that? We are using Salford Royal—a brilliant hospital that she knows well—to lead a safety campaign across the whole country to learn from the brilliant things that it is doing. I put a written statement before Parliament, and nothing I said this morning is not in the public domain. I would be delighted to come to the House any time to make an oral statement, and I notice that far more coalition MPs want to ask questions about safety and compassionate care than do Labour MPs.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will remember some of the issues that I raised in the House about patient safety, and the Francis report, the Keogh review, and the new Care Quality Commission regime have made a material improvement. On Friday last week, Buckingham Healthcare NHS Trust was the second trust to emerge—at last—from special measures. Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating that trust, and express the hope that that marks a new beginning about which we can be optimistic?

[Mr Hunt]

I would be delighted to do that. Incredible hard work by doctors, nurses and health care assistants on the front line of my hon. Friend’s local hospital has meant that the trust has come out of special measures, which the whole House should celebrate. Indeed, it was helped in that by Salford Royal, and one of the most encouraging things about the new special measures regime is that we are pairing up hospitals in difficulty with other hospitals that have a better record, and we are getting tremendous results.

Care Bill [Lords]

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 11th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Andy Burnham]

I will make some progress but I will give way to the hon. Gentleman before the end of my speech.

Let me set out more of the background, because the Minister raised it a moment ago. In 2009 I took proposals through the House to create a process that could be used in extremis to deal with a trust that had got into serious financial problems. That was a financial and administrative vehicle, not a vehicle for widespread service change across the health economy. That is why the High Court was quite correct in upholding Parliament’s original intention when it accepted the case of the people of Lewisham against the Secretary of State, and threw out his plan to downgrade a much-loved and successful hospital. At that point, common decency would have suggested that the right response to the reverse in court would have been to listen to the court and bow down gracefully. Instead, it appears for all the world as if in a fit of pique, the Secretary of State is changing the law to get his way because he can. Imagine the outcry if someone caught breaking the law could simply come along and change it to their satisfaction. We would not accept that for burglars, and we should not accept it for politicians.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy Burnham]

I will come on to that point, but the CQC had existing powers on care failure, and powers to move more quickly than clause 119 provides for. Adequate powers were in place to deal with the point the hon. Gentleman has just made.

In truth, it is arrogance in the extreme for the Government to be coming along today—and worse, it seriously risks damaging public trust in how change in the NHS is made. That will be the real loss if the clause is accepted. It threatens to destroy any public faith in a sense of fair process governing these crucial decisions, and any prospect of cross-party consensus on a way to make changes to hospital services.

Making changes to those services is about the most difficult decision that politicians have to make, but the fact is that hospitals need to change if we are to make services safer and respond to the pressures of an ageing society. We did not shy away from that in government, and we do not say something different now. However, there is a right way and a wrong way of going about such things.

The Government’s answer—to use a brutal administration process to take decisions above the heads of local people—is a spectacularly wrong response to a very real problem, and precisely because those decisions arouse such strong emotions, we must find better ways of involving people, not shutting them out. If people suspect a stitch-up, and see solutions imposed from on high, they will understandably fight back hard. Does the spectacle of tens of thousands of people marching in Stafford or on the streets of Lewisham not give Ministers pause for thought that this new approach might seriously set back the goal of better public engagement in the NHS?

[Steve Baker]

rose—

[Andy Burnham]

I will give way one final time, but I hope the hon. Gentleman will take on board the point that public engagement is essential if we are to have trust in the NHS.

[Steve Baker]

I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman and I have listened extremely carefully to what he has said. Wycombe lost its A and E under his Government. Does he seriously suggest that that change was not imposed on the people of Wycombe, or that they were listened to, engaged and approved of the change?

[Andy Burnham]

I am saying to the hon. Gentleman that the previous Government had a process at the end of which was an independent panel—the Independent Reconfiguration Panel—to take a decision on whether a proposal was right or wrong in the interests of patient safety, which was the driving principle. I will defend the changes we made to improve services. I have given him the example of stroke services in London. The Opposition are not against making change in the NHS, but we are emphatically in favour of local people in areas such as his having the ability to have their say in the process. Clause 119 seeks to drop solutions on local people from on high.

Our policy was set out in the Carruthers review, commissioned by Patricia Hewitt in 2006, which concludes:

“Reasons for change should be built on a clear evidence base of clinical and patient benefits.”

That principle guided the Darzi review towards the end of the previous Government, which put quality centre stage. The Darzi review influenced the plans for stroke services in London and others, and the difficult changes we planned to make in south-east London before the last election. A detailed consultation, “A Picture of Health”, had brought together a case for change to how services were delivered across the area. It was given formal approval before the election, but was subject to the Government’s moratorium after it.

In the space of a few years, Ministers have gone from campaigning outside hospitals to save services to campaigning for extra powers to close them down without debate. That will leave the NHS more top-down than ever before, with the patient and public voice utterly marginalised.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame M. Morris]

I am absolutely amazed. I share my right hon. Friend’s incredulity that the Secretary of State is not here. In my view, clause 119 is one power too many for a Secretary of State who apparently believes the NHS to be a 60-year-old mistake. [Interruption.] That is a direct quotation from the Secretary of State before he took office.

The Secretary of State’s increased power and Monitor’s expanded role directly contradict the Government’s earlier promise that local commissioners would no longer be subject to central diktat. That represents a reversal of the vision that was presented during the consideration of the Health and Social Care Act 2012. Clause 119 supports none of the preconditions for a legitimate reorganisation of a local health economy and will allow trust special administrators to overrule any concerned parties.

If clause 119 becomes law, the Secretary of State will be granted the power to issue directions to require foundation trusts and clinical commissioning groups to take steps that they do not want to take. Any Member who wants to prevent the Secretary of State’s axe from falling arbitrarily on their own hospitals without clinical justification should seek to remove the clause from the Bill. I therefore urge right hon. and hon. Members to support Labour’s amendment 30 and new clause 16, which is a compromise measure to ameliorate the worst aspects of clause 119.

[Steve Baker]

I have listened with quiet astonishment as Opposition Members have suggested that the NHS previously offered meaningful accountability and public control.

In the manner in which the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) spoke to amendment 30, he viciously punched a raw and delicate bruise in Wycombe. As I indicated in my intervention, it was under the last Government that we lost A and E services, maternity services and paediatrics. Years later, all that people want is to have those services back. They want an emergency unit that is capable of accepting whoever turns up. To use the jargon, they want the treatment of undifferentiated emergency patients. The NHS should not be offering constant excuses for why that cannot be provided. God knows, we pay enough in tax and in salaries that people ought to be creative enough to figure out how to offer the treatment of undifferentiated emergency patients at local hospitals like the one in Wycombe. There is a proposal to do so, which I will return to another day,

I have found myself listening to some sort of exposition of a democratic utopia that has never existed. When considering how this has been positioned—the idea that it is about reconfiguration rather than urgent procedures when a trust is in extreme difficulty—will the Minister reassure me that the Government did not establish clinical commissioning groups and health and wellbeing boards, and the rest, just so that they could use this clause and power to override everything else they have put in place?

[Dr Poulter]

I am happy to give my hon. Friend that reassurance. We believe in locally led commissioning and in listening to patients locally. That is what devising services locally is about. This clause is not to be conflated with normal procedures for designing and arranging local hospital services. I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend and other hon. Members.

[Steve Baker]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that reassurance because in my constituency there is really only one story: the loss of services, and, because of the way the clause has been presented by Labour Members, people are worried about that.

It has been said that these hospitals are categorically different because they exist in a broader health economy, but that is not why they are different. Any business exists as part of a wider economy with dependencies and so on—the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd) suggested the example of Comet versus Currys. In private enterprise, if the administrator turned up and shut down our competitors when we failed, it would obviously be absurd, but the truth is that both sides of the House have made a positive decision to use the techniques of state socialism to provide health care. That choice has consequences, one of which is this clause.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

It will come as no surprise that I support the proposal to remove clause 119 from the Bill. Of all reforms in the Bill, this clause has attracted the most attention from my constituents. They recognise it for what it is—a frightening power grab by central Government that will put services across the whole country at risk from the Secretary of State. It is a cynical move from the Government, who in their wildly unpopular top-down reorganisation of our beloved NHS claimed that they wanted to put more power in the hands of doctors. Now they seek to give sweeping new powers to the Secretary of State.

It is of course true that some NHS trusts and foundation trusts find themselves in tough financial situations, and in those difficult situations decisions will have to be made so that services continue to operate. That is what the TSA regime was set up to do, and it is an appropriate process for dealing with the difficulties within a trust. It is true that trusts do not operate in complete isolation, but the TSA is already required to act with the interests of the wider health service in mind.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss amendment 30 and new clause 16. I realise that it will come as a disappointment to Government Members but I will support amendment 30 and new clause 16. Let me explain why, and I hope that I can avoid drifting into the scaremongering that has been associated with this issue.

For me, the concern has always been about public trust in reconfigurations. As many hon. Members will know, I have been through 10 years of discussions and consultations on reconfigurations. That first started under the then Labour Government, and I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker), who suggested that there was a wonderful alliance of faith and trust professed by the Opposition in the effectiveness of consultations. For the record, we had the most shameful consultations at the beginning of the process on Chase Farm, and not much changed after the change of Government in 2010.

[Steve Baker]

To be clear, I think these consultations are a fiction and sham that do not make any difference to the progress of events in the NHS. In fact, they cruelly mislead the public into thinking that they have any say at all.

[Nick de Bois]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention and I understand where he is coming from. Certainly in the early days under the tenure of the predecessor of the shadow Health Secretary, we were presented with consultations that listed 10 options for the reconfiguration of Chase Farm, one of which included retaining the A and E services. It disappeared from the list before anyone had had a chance to consult. A selected group of stakeholders was then invited to a meeting that, funnily enough, was not held in Enfield or Barnet. It was held in central London during working hours, meaning that very few people could attend—certainly not the public. I share the shadow Health Secretary’s view that that consultation was utterly flawed and it led to the decision to downgrade my hospital being made by his predecessor in 2008. Hopes were raised with the moratorium that was introduced by the coalition Government, but they were then sorely dashed. I have described my displeasure and the distress of my constituents who had their hopes raised in that shameful episode, the likes of which litter the history of Chase Farm over the past 10 years.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

I entirely agree. There are still members of the community who, like me, deeply regret the fact that we lost two cottage hospitals in my constituency and another in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall). We lost a whole network of cottage hospitals. I do not remember who was Secretary of State in the 1980s under the Thatcher Government, but that Secretary of State was obsessed with closing them down, and they were closed down as a result of central diktat rather than listening to people.

As other Members have said, there were consultations, and, in every case, nearly 100% of local people wanted to keep the local cottage hospital. The hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) said that we were running a socialist health service. Well, my socialism is grass-roots socialism—community socialism—which means listening to local people and respecting their wishes. Local people often know intuitively what is right, and that is why I am so anxious about any further powers being put in the hands of the Secretary of State.

[Steve Baker]

Not for the first time, I find myself gently agreeing with the hon. Gentleman. I think that he has advanced a magnificently Conservative argument, and I look forward to his eventually matching the colour of his tie with the colour of his rosette.

[John McDonnell]

I will send the hon. Gentleman a few books about council socialism and the socialism of the grass roots.

Today’s debate is about trust, about listening to local people, and about not allowing any further powers to accrete in the Secretary of State’s hands and override local wishes. People do not trust central Government. That is not a party-political point; I think that people have been ill used over a long period by not being listened to at local level, which is why I urge Members to support the new clauses and the amendment.

Let us not denigrate organisations such as 38 Degrees which are merely expressing a view. Others may not agree with that view, but it has been expressed to me not just by 38 Degrees, but in e-mail after e-mail and letter after letter from people whose views I respect because they have gone through the same local experience as me. All that those people want is long-term stability and investment in a publicly funded and democratically accountable health service.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

The difference between donors to the Conservative party and donors to the Labour party is that our donors do not write our policies. While we are talking about private sector health care providers, I remind the hon. Gentleman of what an unnamed shadow Cabinet Minister told The Independent last week:

“We all remember when Andy was Health Secretary and happily contracting out bits of the NHS to the private sector… You have to ask yourself what’s changed.”

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

The NHS diagnostic centre in Wycombe, which is operated by the private sector, does a fantastic job. Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating and thanking Opposition Members for all that they did to extend private and independent provision in the NHS?

[Mr Hunt]

I am happy to do that. My hon. Friend may be interested to know that in the last four years of the last Government, private sector contracts in the NHS doubled—something that this Government have not been able to match. It is important to look at the facts before we start any hares running with respect to privatisation.

Oral Answers to Questions

Steve Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I wish the hon. Lady had been as diligent in asking that question of Labour Ministers, who also handed back underspends to the Treasury when they were in power.

[Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

Along with county colleagues, I wrote to the Secretary of State on this subject, because Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust is relatively underfunded compared with the rest of the country and it is in special measures following the Keogh review. Further to the answer that he gave to the earlier question, when can we expect the NHS England funding settlement to reflect more equitably the age of the public?

[Mr Hunt]

I commend my hon. Friend for the campaigning he does for high standards in his local trust. That has not been easy because, as he says, there have been a lot of problems there, although I hope he thinks that we are beginning to turn a corner. The decision on the funding allocations will be made by NHS England before Christmas, and the things that he says will, of course, be taken into account.