Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I put on the record my previous engagements with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, on many excellent and informative trips that contributed to our relationships across the Commonwealth, and my past engagement with the International Committee of the Red Cross.

I am delighted to see the Bill back in the House; I hope that there will be wholehearted unity today to ensure that it makes it to Royal Assent. I think this is its fourth iteration. The last time it was debated here was as a private Member’s Bill in the last Session, but sadly it ran out of time before the Dissolution of Parliament for the general election. I pay tribute to the former Member for Basingstoke for her tireless work in introducing that Bill and pushing it through, and to many hon. Members, some of whom I see here today, for their past work with the CPA and the ICRC.

It is critical that both the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross be given their correct status in UK legislation to conduct their work and deliver their objectives while operating in the UK. This will help to guarantee that the CPA remains headquartered in the UK and will ensure that the UK can guarantee the ICRC that the confidential information that it shares as a matter of course with the UK Government is secure and protected.

The UK is deeply committed to the Commonwealth and believes that the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which the Foreign Secretary is attending in Samoa, will be an important opportunity to mobilise action on shared interests, including upholding shared Commonwealth values. Those values are embodied by the CPA’s important work to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. I think back to my own many engagements with the CPA in which I have seen that work at first hand, both when delegations have visited and when I have been part of delegations. The UK values its partnership with the CPA and is proud to support the work of the CPA and its regional branch CPA UK. That includes developing benchmarks and indicators of parliamentary democracy and addressing modern slavery in supply chains and issues such as gender-based violence with Parliaments and parliamentarians across the Commonwealth.

The ICRC is an essential partner in achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives. It has a unique mandate from states to uphold the Geneva conventions and works globally to promote international humanitarian law. Its impartiality, neutrality and independence allow it to engage and negotiate with all parties to a conflict and to provide protection and humanitarian assistance to vulnerable populations, often in contexts in which other agencies are unable to operate. I have witnessed its important work, in opposition and in my past career in the humanitarian sector.

Clauses 1 and 2 will therefore provide for both organisations to be treated in a manner comparable to an international organisation, with the associated privileges and immunities. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora. It will allow the organisation to participate fully in areas in which it is currently restricted, including signing up to joint international statements and communiqués. That is vital to ensure that the CPA can continue its work to promote democracy and good governance across the Commonwealth. The CPA is currently registered with the Charity Commission for England and Wales and is not an international intergovernmental organisation; it therefore has its own unique constitutional arrangements that reflect its specific international mandate.

Clause 2 is critical to enable the ICRC to operate in the UK in accordance with its international mandate, maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence and its working methods of confidentiality. The ICRC is not an inter-governmental organisation either; it has its own unique and historical international humanitarian mandate to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Nobody doubts the good work of the CPA or the ICRC—we have all seen it as parliamentarians—but does the Minister understand that many of us are a little wary about conferring privileges and immunities by Order in Council after the Bill is passed, since this House is not, in general, in the habit of granting privileges and immunities without scrutiny?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman can be assured that these are the appropriate measures. We have determined this way in line with previous discussions on the previous iteration of the Bill. This is the best way to achieve the aims of the Bill in a timely fashion, so that the provisions are put in place for the CPA and the ICRC. I am very happy to write to him further on this matter. The Bill will face scrutiny in Committee, where we will be able to discuss these matters in greater detail.

The provisions in clauses 1 and 2 will ensure that the CPA and the ICRC can be accorded comparable treatment to an international organisation, even when the definition of international organisation in existing legislation is limited to intergovernmental organisations. For the CPA, this treatment will be limited to its core international organs, such as the secretariat. It is not intended that any privileges, immunities or other facilities be extended to any of the national or sub-national branches, so this is a limited provision.

The arrangements for both organisations will detail the day-to-day management of the privileges and immunities granted on a functional needs basis, and other facilities. They will make it clear that there will be no immunity for the CPA’s secretary-general or representatives of the ICRC in respect of damage caused by, for example, a motor vehicle operated or owned by either. The way that the limitations and requirements have been set out in this regard is important.

Clause 2(1)(e) lays out an important confidentiality provision, to protect certain information provided in confidence to His Majesty’s Government by the ICRC from being disclosed in UK civil court proceedings or under any statutory provision or rule of law. As my noble Friend Baroness Chapman stated on Second Reading in the other place, this provision reflects the ICRC’s standard working method of confidentiality, which is designed to protect its staff and operations in active conflict zones. I am sure that Members will understand that publicly disclosing information that the ICRC obtains from confidential dialogue with conflict parties is likely to put at risk its ability to have confidential dialogue with conflict parties, its humanitarian access and, indeed, the security of its staff, and might result in the ICRC restricting the information it shares with the UK.

However, in relation to the concerns that Members have raised in the past, the Bill does not provide an absolute blanket exemption for disclosure requirements for all ICRC communications. Important limitations have been incorporated, such as the exclusion of criminal cases. The Government continue to be committed to respecting the confidentiality of ICRC information as a matter of policy. Past practice has demonstrated the importance of doing so. The Bill is an opportunity to end any uncertainty about the Government’s position and to put this practice on a statutory footing.

I want to turn briefly to clause 3, which is equivalent to section 8 of the International Organisations Act 1968, which allows the Secretary of State to certify questions of fact relating to the status of, or the privileges and immunities conferred on, the organisations. In the context of court proceedings, if a question arises of whether a person is entitled to any privilege or immunity by virtue of an Order in Council made under clauses 1 or 2, such a certification is to be treated as conclusive evidence of those facts for the purposes of proceedings.

Clause 4 details the scope and extent of the Orders in Council that confer privileges and immunities on both organisations under clauses 1 and 2 respectively—this relates to the intervention from the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). An Order in Council may make different provisions for different cases or persons, and it may also contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions. Clause 4 also provides the enabling power for two important aspects: first, the Order in Council may specify circumstances in which privileges and immunities do not apply, either because of an exception or because they have been waived by the organisation; and secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State.

Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made for these purposes will be subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, which means that they will require the approval of both Houses before they may have effect. The list of privileges and immunities that may be conferred on both organisations is set out in the schedule to the Bill and has been informed by the International Organisations Act.

Briefly, clause 5 explains that the term “ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a), and it ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations in respect of all relevant primary and secondary legislation, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland whenever made.

In conclusion, and to reiterate what was said in the other place, the Bill will give the CPA and the ICRC the correct status in UK legislation to allow both organisations to continue their international operations without unnecessary restriction. The Government have a strong commitment to the Commonwealth. It continues to support our global humanitarian objectives through our work with the ICRC, and the Bill is a true reflection of that. I hope that it will enjoy the wholehearted support of the House as it proceeds swiftly into law. I commend it to the House.

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[Stephen Doughty]

With the leave of the House, let me first say that it is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker—I think for the first time since I have been in the Chamber. We have been opponents at some times and allies at others, but it is a pleasure to see you, and I welcome you to your place. I thank Members from both sides of the House for their insightful and valuable contributions. It is clear that the work and values of both organisations are highly regarded by all Members and that the legislation has support—I hope; I do not want to prejudge a possible vote.

As I noted earlier, this is not the first time that the House has considered forms of this legislation, and we are all pleased to see it back again. On Second Reading in the other place, my noble Friend Baroness Chapman said that she thought the Bill was the first to receive a Second Reading in this Parliament under the new Government; I think it is now the first Bill to receive a Second Reading in both Houses. Could it be the first to gain His Majesty’s signature? I wonder. I certainly hope that before the conference I can provide the answers the shadow Minister was looking for.

I thank the shadow Minister for her kind words. I welcome her and the Opposition’s warm support as well as her tribute to the past proponents of the Bill. I agreed with her comments about the Commonwealth, particularly when she spoke about the friendships and the best practice that we can share, and with her tribute to His Majesty the King. A number of Members referenced Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and her decades of service; her particular engagement with the Commonwealth is recognised by all sides. The shadow Minister also paid tribute to the work of the ICRC and its staff, particularly on Nagorno-Karabakh.

The shadow Minister asked a number of questions, which I will try to answer. If I do not get them all, I will be happy to write to her. She asked specifically about the funding to the ICRC. His Majesty’s Government provide £48 million each year as core unrestricted funding and are on track to provide at least an additional £80 million this year in direct contributions to the ICRC’s work around the world. She and other right hon. and hon. Members raised the importance of the FCDO’s working with the CPA. I certainly hope that all our high commissions and embassies will provide a warm welcome to delegations and support the work; the points about the benefits in soft power and about representing this place in its broadest sense, with all our expertise and traditions, are well made.

Like other right hon. and hon. Members, the hon. Lady made much wider points about the Commonwealth. We attach great importance to our membership of the Commonwealth, which is a vibrant network of 2.5 billion people united in the pursuit of freedom, peace and prosperity. We fundamentally believe that a modern, cohesive and effective Commonwealth can play an important role in delivering progress on UK priorities across the globe—whether in the sphere of democracy, common values, defending the rights of women, girls and minority communities, dealing with climate change and the energy transition, or the particular challenges faced by small island states. We will work on all those key issues together. There is also the issue of growth and economic development; the Commonwealth’s 56 members include some of the world’s fastest growing economies and it is vital that we partner with them for their and our global benefit. Importantly, those issues, among many others, will be discussed at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Samoa.

I also pay tribute to my good friend the Chair of the International Development Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion). She paid particular tribute to the International Committee of the Red Cross; I particularly recognise what she said about the loss of its workers in current conflicts as well as many others in the past. All of us across the House salute the resilience and bravery of those who work in such trying circumstances.

I welcome the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Monica Harding) to her place and thank her for her party’s support for the Bill. She rightly pointed to the example of other countries and why we need to follow suit. I assure her of the new Government’s commitments to international law, the multilateral system, humanitarian principles and the sustainable development goals; my noble Friend Lord Collins and others will be speaking about those matters in due course. The hon. Lady also rightly referenced the recent speech made by the Minister for Development.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Southgate and Wood Green (Bambos Charalambous) on his election and all those elected to the CPA executive. I thank him for his work and support for the Bill. The right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Dame Karen Bradley) has had to attend the important CPA event; she rightly paid tribute to Maria Miller and Ian Liddell-Grainger and highlighted the important work on modern slavery. I wish her well on her panel today. Like me, she is passionate about the personal relationships that we can develop.

The right hon. Lady and others mentioned the importance of the CPA in relation to devolved Administrations. Ironically, the first CPA conference that I attended was in the Senedd, in my own constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth, and brought together representatives of devolved Administrations along with UK and other Members of Parliament—as well as representatives of the overseas territories, for which I now have responsibility. That learning, sharing, friendship and understanding of our different ways of working as well as our common challenges was hugely important.

We have heard some fantastic maiden speeches today. First, we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Jas Athwal) a passionate account of his journey from Punjab to Ilford, which he described as a place of promise. He spoke of the community and the home that he had found and contributed to, and the passion that he clearly felt for his diverse and dynamic community, which has many similarities to my own, was very inspiring. I also noted his pledges on health and the Government’s commitments on NHS reforms, and his campaign for King George hospital. I thank him for that excellent maiden speech.

The right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) always makes important points. I heard very clearly what he had to say, but, as I take a key interest in these matters as well, I would gently stress the point that, as he knows, the Clerks have particularly strong rules relating to the scope of Bills, and the amendment that he suggested may not be in the scope of this Bill. Obviously, it is for the Clerks to opine on the matter. I have heard the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks and will certainly take them away, but there is clearly a stark difference between the Intelligence and Security Committee situation that he described and the position of the CPA and the ICRC.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

May I urge the Minister, when the Government are considering the political dimension of what is being proposed, to engage in consultations with Lord West of Spithead, his own party’s representative on the previous ISC, and also with the new Lord Beamish, formerly Kevan Jones of this parish, who likewise was firmly committed to the sort of measure that I am proposing?

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned some well-respected people—my noble Friends —and I will ensure that colleagues across Government hear what he has said, and also his request for the ISC to meet the Prime Minister, although, as he will know, the Prime Minister’s diary is incredibly stretched.

My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) took the opportunity to make a lengthy speech. The Whips will probably teach him not to do that too often, but he made a fantastic contribution including some thoughtful insights on the importance of the Commonwealth and its future, particularly in a world where we are contesting with autocratic and repressive states that seek a very different future for the world. I believe that the Commonwealth provides a set of values and principles on which we can all unite. He spoke of his own family history, and also noted the Commonwealth contribution in the two world wars, which we need to remember regularly, especially as we approach the season of remembrance.

The hon. Member for Windsor (Jack Rankin) made another excellent maiden speech. Like many other Members, I know his constituency well—I have sung at Royal Holloway’s Windsor building, I have visited the fields at Runnymede, and I recently attended a conference on Ukraine in Windsor Castle itself—and I know that it is home to many and varied activities from the cultural to the historic. He spoke of his passion for physics. I wanted to be a physicist myself until my English teacher told me to go into politics, and the contribution that science and mathematics can make to the House is key. The royal history of the hon. Gentleman’s constituency is, of course, well known. I welcome him to the House, and thank him for an excellent speech.

My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Lillian Jones) paid a heartfelt tribute to the family, friends and campaigners who brought her to this place, along with her own clear commitments to public service. She also paid warm tributes to her predecessors, including Clarice Shaw and Cathy Jamieson. I got to know Cathy Jamieson well when I first came to this place 12 years ago. She ensured that I was given a tour around “Killie” football club at one point when I was in her constituency. My hon. Friend may not know this, but there is a direct connection between her constituency and mine: Loudoun Square is at the heart of Butetown. The name denotes the strong links between the coal and shipping industries of Cardiff and the west coast of Scotland. That connection is deep and abiding. My hon. Friend spoke with passion about the huge community assets in her constituency and the strength of that community, and I wish her well in this place.

Last but not least, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) made some very important remarks and some kind remarks about me, and I congratulate him on his election to the CPA’s executive committee. The significance of this change is understood by the Government, which is why we want to get the Bill through. I am glad that he highlighted some of the challenges we see around the Commonwealth, particularly those facing the LGBT+ community. He knows that I take those issues very seriously, and I have taken advantage of my time with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association to raise such concerns in the past. These are issues that I and other Ministers take very seriously.

I will conclude by saying that I am well aware not only of the excellent work that the ICRC does, but of its importance to the Commonwealth. My own constituency has people from Cyprus, Malta, south Asia and Africa. It is vital that we continue those links at the parliamentary level and work together, and we Ministers are committed to doing so. I thank everybody for their contributions today. I look forward to seeing this Bill progress—rapidly, I hope—and I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [LORDS] (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Wednesday 13 November 2024.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Christian Wakeford.)

Question agreed to.

 Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [LORDS] (Money)

King’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any amount refunded in respect of any tax or duty in accordance with arrangements made under the Act.—(Christian Wakeford.)

Question agreed to.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords]

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Committee stage & Report stage
Wednesday 13th November 2024 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 3 stand part and the schedule.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Stephen Doughty)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Vickers. I welcome Members to the Committee and thank the Bill team and the Clerks for their work in preparing for these sittings. This Parliament is still relatively new, and I am sure that Members who have not been in one of these Committees before will find it as delightful as I did, when I first came to this place, to go line by line through Bills. This Bill is a slightly unusual example because it enjoys wide support across the House and has been debated a number of times in different forms.

At the outset, I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Witham, and welcome her to her new role. She and I have sparred and have also worked together on many occasions. It is a genuine pleasure to have her here, and I thank her for the Opposition’s support for the Bill. I think we can get through this relatively quickly.

This is an important Bill for the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross, and for their standing in this country. I hope that we can get through the technical scrutiny and put this on the statute book as soon as possible. Of course, we are coming off the back of a very successful Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting attended by the Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Lord Collins and others, alongside Ministers and leaders from across the Commonwealth, so it is right that we debate this Bill today. I welcome our guest, Mr Twigg—a former Member of this House—to the Gallery, and thank him for all his work with the CPA over many years.

Many of us have benefited from associating with and engaging with CPA delegations on important work. I attended a useful conference in Ghana a couple of years ago with parliamentarians from across Africa. I cannot tell the Committee how important it was for me to be able to engage with colleagues on a wide range of issues, including women’s rights, security, healthcare and climate change. The inter-parliamentary and inter-Commonwealth understanding brought by the CPA is crucial to all our work in this place and to the work of the Government.

The United Kingdom greatly values its long-standing programme partnership with the CPA and appreciates the important work that it is doing to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora, and allow the organisation to participate fully in areas where it is currently restricted, including signing up to international statements and communiqués.

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[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary for her warm support for the Bill. I very much appreciate her agreement with the proposals in the clause. She asked what we can do to lean in and support the work at the CPA and, I assume, in the Commonwealth more generally. In fact, I have already been to an event hosted by Mr Speaker that encouraged Members to be heavily involved in the CPA, the Inter-Parliamentary Union and a number of other inter-parliamentary bodies. From my experience in this place, I know that they are incredibly important organisations that do brilliant work, and we as a Government certainly support Members of both Houses and, indeed, of the devolved Administrations taking part fully in that work. One of the first CPA conferences that I took part in was in the Senedd—the Welsh Parliament—in my constituency, which brought together representatives from not only across these islands, but across Europe and the Mediterranean. That was one of my first such experiences, and it took place in a devolved legislature in the UK.

This is really important work, and I know just how important all the legislatures across the Commonwealth are. Representatives of the provinces in Canada, the states in Australia and elsewhere often take part in these bodies, so the Government are fully supportive of this. As for our wider support to the Commonwealth, as one of the largest funders to the secretariat and its programmes—I think the figure is £13 million—we continue to support the organisation and its aims overall.

The shadow Foreign Secretary referenced the important work on governance, rights and other matters. Fundamentally, that comes back to the Commonwealth charter, which we are all signed up to. It is an important reference point for us to return to when we engage in some of the more challenging issues. Of course, we welcome the new secretary-general of the Commonwealth to her place and look forward to working with her.

I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Esher and Walton, for her support and for emphasising the important role that the CPA, and the Commonwealth as a whole, play in supporting good governance and strong democracies and societies across the world.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2

The International Committee of the Red Cross

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Stephen Doughty]

There were some references made to the ICRC in the previous debate, and we are now discussing that important part of the legislation.

As the shadow Foreign Secretary pointed out, the International Committee of the Red Cross is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives, and it plays a unique and important role, particularly in conflicts in some of the most harrowing circumstances. I, too, have engaged in work with the agency on many occasions in my career, both in this place and in the humanitarian sector prior to that.

The ICRC has unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts. It has unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations, and it is frequently the only international agency operating at scale in many conflicts. It is therefore critical to enable it to operate in the UK, in accordance with its unique international mandate, which means maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality, independence, and, importantly for the provisions in the Bill, its working method of confidentiality.

The clause confers on the ICRC the legal capacities of a body corporate.. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK are to conclude contracts, to acquire and dispose of property, and to institute and be party to legal proceedings. The clause also enables the provision of specific privileges and immunities in respect to the ICRC, which will need to be determined on the basis of the functional need of the organisation and will be specified through arrangements to be agreed on after the passage of the Bill.

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[Monica Harding]

The Liberal Democrats support the immunities and privileges given to the ICRC under the Bill, which support its unique mandate of neutrality. Its work is needed more than ever on the frontline of conflict—there are more than 120 ongoing armed conflicts in the world—not least in its understanding and witness to the exercise of humanitarian law, which is sometimes applied permissively. I pay tribute to its work, and the Liberal Democrats support the clause.

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary and the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for their support for the clause and the important protections it provides for the ICRC. I agree with their comments about the important work that the ICRC does. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting its work. It is indispensable in many of the harrowing situations we are engaged in. The shadow Foreign Secretary and I have engaged with the ICRC on a number of occasions and seen its work at first hand.

The shadow Foreign Secretary is right about the importance of continuing to support the ICRC’s work financially. I will not go into details of individual settlements in this debate for obvious reasons, but I am very happy to ask my right hon. Friend the Minister for Development to write to her to set out the details of our financial relationship with the ICRC going forward. It is an important organisation to support, because we all care about humanitarianism and treating prisoners of war, hostages and others properly. It does important, unique work that has been established for a very long time in relation to the Geneva conventions.

The shadow Foreign Secretary rightly raised the issue of balance between good governance and not allowing wrongdoing in the humanitarian sector to remain covered up. That is exactly why we have struck a balance in the Bill between necessary confidentiality for the ICRC, and that not applying to those criminal proceedings. Obviously, we would continue to work with the ICRC, as we would with any other international humanitarian organisation, to ensure that it upholds the highest standards of internal governance and procedures. We are very supportive of whistleblowing and other schemes that allow those who suspect any wrongdoing, whether in these organisations or any other, to raise a concern and have it dealt with appropriately, not only concerning our own relations with that organisation, but also within the international system as a whole.

I thought it might be worth briefly setting out why it is important that we get these confidentiality provisions right because, to date, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has been successful in applying to UK courts for public interest immunity—for example, to prevent disclosure of ICRC communications or to consider ICRC evidence in closed material procedures. However, the reality, and the right hon. Member for Witham understand this, is that those decisions are at the discretion of the court in each individual case and so cannot fully address the ICRC’s concerns. The release of material into closed material procedures still breaches the ICRC’s standard working methods of confidentiality, so even though we would expect confidentiality in those proceedings, that is not guaranteed. That is why it is important to put this important provision on the statute book and to give the ICRC and the CPA that assurance.

The Bill and, indeed, its predecessors have been developed in close co-operation with the ICRC and the CPA, so it very much reflects their needs and, crucially, the need for them to continue to work with us in the most productive and outcome-based way. The Bill and clause therefore strike the right balance between the confidentiality they need to work with us, but without a blanket exemption that allows anything to go because, clearly, when it comes to criminal or other matters, those need to be dealt with in the appropriate way.

[Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

After receiving advice from my Whip, I should declare an interest: I am a former employee of the Red Cross and, while there is no financial connection between us today, I retain a strong bond of affection for the movement.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 5 stand part.

Government amendment 1.

Clause 6 stand part.

[Stephen Doughty]

We now come to some of the more technical aspects of the legislation, which I hope will not detain us too long. It is reassuring to hear a number of Members talking about their connections to the CPA and the Red Cross movement. That is fantastic, and we have a wealth of expertise, particularly from the development and humanitarian sectors, in this new Parliament, which will be to the benefit of debates on many matters.

It is a long-standing practice that privileges and immunities are conferred by Order in Council. Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made under clauses 1 and 2 is subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, as I set out on Second Reading in October. For the benefit of new Members in particular, statutory instruments that are subject to the draft affirmative procedure require the approval of both Houses of Parliament before they may have effect. The clause also provides further detail as to the scope and extent of the delegated legislation-making power under clauses 1 and 2. In particular, an Order in Council may make different provision for different cases and persons and may contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions.

In addition, the clause provides the enabling power for two important aspects that are fundamental to the operation and management of privileges and immunities in respect of an international organisation. First, the Order in Council may specify circumstances where privileges or immunities do not apply, whether because of an exception to those privileges or immunities or because they have been waived by the organisation. Secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State or the commissioners of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. That will facilitate the application to the organisations of existing administrative schemes and processes in respect of international organisations that are administered by, among others, the FCDO and HMRC.

Clause 5 explains that the term “the ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a). It also ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations to be applied in regard to all relevant legislation, primary and secondary, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, whenever made. That is important because the Bill gives both the CPA and the ICRC treatment comparable to an international organisation, and therefore the organisations need to be recognised in the same way across all relevant legislation.

Furthermore, that definition of statutory provision applies to the ICRC confidentiality provision in clause 2. It provides for protected ICRC information to be exempt from any disclosure requirement imposed by a statutory provision.

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[Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) (Lab/Co-op)]

I apologise for my lateness. I, too, wanted to put on the record that I am the chairman of the UK branch of the CPA.

[Stephen Doughty]

On a point of order, Mr Vickers. I want to reiterate my thanks to the Bill team, the officials of my Department and all Members who have taken part today, and to the CPA and the ICRC for their work. I have many experiences of working with both organisations. I am glad we have been able to proceed in swift time. I hope that the Bill can now proceed, with your agreement, Mr Vickers, to its next stage.

Bill, as amended, to be reported.