Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 10 months ago)
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Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will know that the ministerial code of conduct makes it clear that Ministers have to provide timely answers to written questions tabled by Members of the House, which is underlined by a motion of the House.
Last December, I tabled three questions to the Secretary of State for the Home Department for named day answer on 14 December, and then another two on 20 December for answer on 10 January. I have still had no reply, so last week I decided that I would table a question asking when I was going to get an answer to those questions. I was very excited yesterday to get a reply, which said, “I will reply as soon as possible.” Surely the ministerial code means that we must get substantive replies, not evasive ones that make it look as though a question has been answered when it has not actually been answered.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and I would say two things in response to him. First, he is of course right that the reply that is forthcoming should be not only timely but substantive. It is not good enough for Ministers to provide holding replies in such circumstances, particularly when they are provided very late, simply saying, “I will reply as soon as possible.” It must be a substantive reply.
Secondly, moderately vivid imagination though I possess, a fact to which I made reference in responding to someone last week, I really cannot imagine a colleague whom it is more impolitic or foolish to fail timeously to answer than the hon. Gentleman, for there is no colleague more absolutely certain to make a very substantial and justified fuss about it for some considerable period after the non-event.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman should take his compliments when they come to him. It was.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the course of oral questions earlier, there were a number of questions about the deaths of Alex Kelly and Jake Hardy in youth custody, and in my replies I said that there had not been a death in custody of such a kind since 2007. Of course, that overlooked the case of Ryan Clark, who died in April 2011 and for whom an inquest verdict is still awaited. I should like to take this opportunity to correct the record.
Mr Speaker
I am most grateful to the Minister for doing so, and for doing so as promptly as he has. It will be noted and appreciated by the House.
Bills Presented
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Relocation to Bristol) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to Bristol; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 279).
Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Relocation to Sheffield) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to Sheffield; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 280).
Department for Transport (Relocation to Birmingham) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Transport to Birmingham; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 281).
Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Relocation to Manchester) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to Manchester; and for connected purposes,
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 282).
Department for Education (Relocation to Nottingham) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Education to Nottingham; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 283).
Department for International Development (Relocation to Newcastle) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for International Development to Newcastle; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 284).
Department for Work and Pensions (Relocation to Leeds) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Work and Pensions to Leeds; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 285).
Department for Communities and Local Government (Relocation to Liverpool) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to relocate the headquarters of the Department for Communities and Local Government to Liverpool; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 286).
English Police Forces Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to reduce the number of police forces in England to ten; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 287).
Local Government (Amendment) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to amend the Local Government Act 1992 to allow for the establishment of unitary authorities throughout England; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 288).
Armed Forces (Germany) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to repatriate to the United Kingdom before the end of 2015 all British military personnel serving on British military bases in Germany; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 289).
Child Benefit (Amendment) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to amend the Child Benefit Act 2005 to disqualify nationals of European Union member states other than the United Kingdom who are resident in the United Kingdom with children living overseas from eligibility for child benefit payments; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 290).
Parliament (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to make provision to limit the membership of the House of Lords to 300 unpaid members; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 291).
Local Government Finance (Amendment) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to amend the Local Government Finance Act 1992 to provide for an additional council tax band applicable to second homes; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 292).
Local Government Finance (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to amend the Local Government Finance Act 1992 to provide for three additional council tax bands applicable to homes valued at over £500,000, £1 million and £1.5 million respectively; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 293).
Public Sector Salaries Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to stipulate a maximum salary for public sector employees; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 294).
Public Sector Bonuses Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to prohibit the payment of bonus payments to higher rate taxpayers working in the public sector; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 295).
Corporate Tax Reductions Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to require the authorisation by Parliament of corporate tax reductions by amounts exceeding £100,000 by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 296).
Ministerial and Other Pensions and Salaries (Amendment) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to abolish the payment of grants to persons ceasing to hold Ministerial and other offices; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 297).
Parliamentary Standards (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
John Mann presented a Bill to provide that Ministerial salaries shall not exceed the basic salary paid to Members of Parliament by more than 25 per cent.; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 298).
Mr Speaker
Hon. Members have a date for their diaries, and it is clear that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) is an exceptionally busy bee.
Mr Speaker
Order. We will come to the right hon. Gentleman. We are saving him up and we will keep the best until last.
Recall of Elected Representatives (no. 2) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Zac Goldsmith presented a Bill to permit voters to recall their elected representatives in specified circumstances; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 April, and to be printed (Bill 300).
Mr George Howarth
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you assist the House by letting us know whether somebody has amended the number of hours in the day on Friday 27 April?
Mr Speaker
Not yet, but don’t encourage them—[Laughter.] I am glad that the House is in such an upbeat and buoyant mood.
EU Criminal Policy
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 10 months ago)
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Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a very simple point of order on the documentation for this debate. Page 2 refers to the Chairman of the European Select Committee. There is no such Committee; it is the European Scrutiny Committee. I think it is an important distinction.
Mr Speaker
It is an important distinction, and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing it. I suspect that the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), who chairs the Committee, will be even more grateful to him.
Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
It is a pleasure if not a luxury to have so much time on the Floor of the House to discuss a communication from the Commission to the European Parliament. It appears to have pride of place in Government business for the House this week.
Mr Speaker
Order. I very gently point out to the hon. Gentleman that no fewer than seven Back Benchers wish to speak in the debate. I feel certain that he will tailor his contribution accordingly.
Mr Slaughter
I started at a leisurely pace, Mr Speaker, and perhaps you anticipated that I would continue at such, but I take the hint. We have only an hour and a half, but I will not take that much time.
EU criminal policy is a significant topic and in other circumstances it could provoke lively and controversial debate, but I suspect it will not do so today for a variety of reasons. First, the document is only a communication—it opens the door to communication rather than decides its outcome. As the Minister has said, it is non-binding. Secondly, there are rightly so many caveats, conditionalities and reservations in the UK position on EU criminal policy that any controversial proposal could be effectively filtered at one stage or another.
The European Scrutiny Committee concedes that in supporting the Government’s cautious approach, and in appearing to take principal exception to the language of the document. I do not want to be drawn into a discussion of the linguistic inelegance of “Euro crimes” or whether the EU should have the temerity to express its wish to foster freedom, security and justice. Those are peripheral issues.
The third reason why I believe this is an uncontroversial proposal is that there has been—even on the Lisbon treaty and the criminal justice decisions flowing from it—broad consensus between the parties. That remains, and the Opposition do not intend to press the motion to a Division.
On the substance of the Commission document, we are pleased to note the emphasis that the Commission places on respecting the general principles of subsidiarity, necessity and proportionality in its memorandum. Those should be at the forefront of the Commission’s mind in deciding whether to propose criminal sanctions to ensure effective implementation of EU proposals. That was the intention of the Lisbon treaty and the exemptions that the previous Government negotiated.
The previous Government were clear at the time of the Lisbon treaty that EU co-operation on criminal justice and policing should not affect fundamental aspects of our criminal justice system. The extended opt-in arrangements that we secured at the time mean that we have complete choice on whether to participate in any justice and home affairs measure.
As each proposal for new EU JHA legislation comes forward, we urge the Minister to consider carefully whether it is in British interests to participate. From the “Report to Parliament on the Application Of Protocols 19 and 21”, which was released this week, we see that the Government have operated in exactly the way we envisaged when negotiating the opt-in. The document makes it clear that:
“Over the past year, the Government has taken 17 decisions on UK participation in EU JHA legislative proposals. In total the UK has opted in to nine proposals…including one decision to opt in to a measure post adoption…The Government…decided to not opt in to eight proposals.”
The Opposition do not always agree on individual proposals—we did not agree with the Government’s decision on the right to a criminal lawyer—but we agree on and indeed instigated that opt-in process.
In any event, and as the Minister has acknowledged, there is a recognition by the Commission that EU intervention in criminal justice is a sensitive matter, hence the emergency brake, the two-step approach and the fact that additional “Euro-crimes”—if I may use the shorthand—will be added only by unanimous decision. It is clear that that is a matter of last resort.
There is broad agreement on areas on which it is important to act on a European level. The Opposition support co-ordinated action to tackle organised crime and terrorism, and to provide greater protection for children and ensure the security of our borders. Such co-operation continues to be driven by the challenges we face today. Tackling crime, countering terrorism and securing our borders are not issues of mere domestic concern; they have an international dimension. We need to work with our allies in the EU to ensure that we achieve our objectives.
As the European Commission states in the document:
“In view of the cross-border dimension of many crimes, the adoption of EU criminal law measures can help ensure that criminals can neither hide behind borders nor abuse differences between national legal systems for criminal purposes.”
There are more contentious matters than this one, such as the European arrest warrant, which the House debated relatively recently. The Opposition hope that the incremental approach continues. A clear example of that—on insider trading, insider dealing and market abuse—is given in the bundle. The Government, in commissioning a report to look into that matter, are taking a sensible line. That is a good example of a matter on which legislation might assist the Government and the country, because we have taken steps when other European countries have not done so.
On that basis, I shall bring my remarks to a close to allow other Members to take part in the debate. I welcome the opportunity to debate these matters, but there is little controversy on the principle, even if controversy on individual decisions to opt in remains.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Ulster is a little way away, but I am sure that it is not beyond the ingenuity of the hon. Gentleman to relate his supplementary to Merseyside.
Dr McCrea
Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Will the Minister tell us whether any figures are available on the cost to industry and individuals in Merseyside, when witnesses attend court proceedings only to be told later in the day that they can go home because the proceedings cannot go ahead?
Mr Kenneth Clarke
The Government have no intention of reopening that question at the moment, and the vast majority of Members would not contemplate changing the current arrangements, as my hon. Friend has described.
Mr Speaker
Order. May I ask the Secretary of State to face the House? We all want to be the beneficiaries of his eloquence.
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
What action does the Justice Secretary intend to take against offenders who receive a community sentence instead of a prison sentence and then use social media to boast that they have “got away with it”? I am thinking in particular of comments posted on Facebook yesterday by Ryan Girdlestone, who mocked the court within minutes of receiving a restraining order for his part in a vicious attack on my constituent, Bernard O’Donnell, a man in his 80th year. Is that not sheer contempt for the court, and should he not be held to account?
Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)
Sadly, James Herbert, a 25-year-old resident of Wells, died in police custody on 10 June 2010. The Independent Police Complaints Commission investigated and made six recommendations to the police. The coroner is holding an inquest and will consider a verdict of unlawful killing. Avon and Somerset police will have full access to taxpayer-funded legal representation, but James’s family have been refused such funding on the basis that they should use a local solicitor, should not need much preparation and can use their small savings to fund the case. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the Legal Services Commission’s rejection of James’s parents’ application for help?
Mr Speaker
I am extraordinarily, almost inordinately, grateful to the hon. Lady, but before the Minister replies I am wondering whether proceedings are still active. The hon. Gentleman answering from the Treasury Bench might want to take account of that in framing any reply, with the due caution that we have come to expect of Ministers in general and lawyers in particular.
Mr Djanogly
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will not comment on the case itself, but if my hon. Friend wants a general discussion on the legal aid attaching to the case, I will be happy to have it.
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sorry, but demand has exceeded supply. We now come to points of order.
Common European Sales Law
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. There is some confusion here. I think the hon. Gentleman either thought or hoped he was intervening on the right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake), but the latter is signalling that he has concluded his remarks. I am sure that that fact will be of close and abiding interest to the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), knowing what a great interest he takes in the observations of other hon. Members.
Mr Cash
On the question of legal base, does my hon. and learned Friend recall that originally the Secretary of State for Justice took the view that he had doubts over whether article 114 was appropriate? There was then the question of whether article 352 might not be more appropriate. Unfortunately, because of the enactment of the European Union Act 2011, primary legislation had to be passed before the Government could give their consent to the adoption of the proposal on article 352. Therefore, there is a serious question over whether there has been complete compliance not only with the principle of subsidiarity but with the legal base.
Mr Speaker
The principle of subsidiarity is important, but there is also a very important principle of interventions, and that is brevity.
Stephen Phillips
I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, brief or not. I will not fall into his elephant trap of discussing what precisely is necessary under the European Union Act 2011, but I will say that I agree with him. It is right that there is no justifiable legal base under article 114, not least because the European Court of Justice has itself made it clear that that article cannot be used for the harmonisation of laws within the European Union.
I was on the point of saying that there is a real problem with running in parallel two systems of contract law, particularly where that might lead to different results and where one has not been the subject of extensive judicial consideration. In such a case, it is inevitable that there would be differences of opinion among those who are called on to provide advice on the rights, obligations and entitlements of parties to contracts, and they are the ones who are subject to this new system of optional contract law were it to be in place. For those reasons, it must be entirely right that we should not seek to accommodate the Commission’s proposals to have in place two parallel systems of contract law in this country. That would be detrimental to the interests of the United Kingdom and consumers and businesses all over the European Union. For those reasons, I urge the Minister to make those points as strongly as he can to his colleagues in Europe, and I make those points, albeit through you, Mr Deputy Speaker, to the other national Parliaments who really need to require the Commission to justify its proposals.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
May I say to the Minister—[Laughter.]
Simon Hughes
May I say to the Minister that this is an inherited matter that has now lasted for 18 months? There is an obligation on the Government to sort it out soon. Can he give a commitment that victims will get their answer before the end of this calendar year?
Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Mr Speaker
May I encourage Ministers to face the House, so that we get the full force of their eloquence head-on?
Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)
T2. Has the Minister done an impact assessment on the effect of the legal aid reforms on women?
Mr Speaker
Order. I apologise to colleagues. I should be happy to allow these exchanges to continue all day if there were time, but there is not.
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Speaker
Point of order, if the Secretary of State will just hold on. Point of order, Mr Tom Clarke.
Mr Tom Clarke
Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, you could not be here earlier, when again, again and again I asked Ministers to give way. Is there something in “Erskine May” which says, “You don’t give way to the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill”?
Mr Speaker
No. It is uncharacteristic of the right hon. Gentleman to be suffering from a persecution complex, and I hope that it will not be repeated. He is just unlucky today.
Mr Kenneth Clarke
I was about to give way to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox), but I have the highest regard for the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke), whom I have known for years, and this is the first time that I have rebuffed him, so I will give way, as he insists. He is obviously getting worried about this.
Education and Training (Young People with Autism)
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con)
I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the Secretary of State to make provision for the education and training of young people with autism and Asperger’s syndrome; to ensure that work opportunities are provided for those young people; and for connected purposes.
One of the biggest worries for parents who have children with autism, Asperger’s or any other special needs is what will happen when they are no longer here. Will the young person, when they become an adult, be able to look after themselves? Will they have gainful employment? I pay tribute both to my own Government and to the previous Government for the work that has been done to try to make headway on employment for young people suffering with autism, Asperger’s and any other special needs.
According to the National Autistic Society,
“There are more than 350,000 working age adults with autism in the UK. NAS research has found that, whilst many people with autism want to work, just 15% of adults with autism are in full-time paid employment and 9% are in part-time employment.”
Research shows that 79% of people with autism on incapacity benefit want to work, but need some support to get into work and retain employment. One in three people with autism is without any financial support from employment or through the benefits system, with many reliant on their families for such support. In a study carried out by Research Autism in 2008 for NAS Prospects London on the experiences of employing people with autism, seven in 10 employers questioned had had a very positive experience of employing people with autism, Asperger’s or other related conditions, and said that they would recommend it to others.
BBC Radio York contacted me this morning about the parent of a young son with autism. The parent filled out an application form for a job and filled out another for the son. The application form requested that a box be ticked if the applicant had a disability: the form indicating no disability got the applicant an interview, whereas the applicant whose form indicated there was a disability did not. Whatever the employment climate is, and however difficult things are, people with autism are not getting a fair chance.
I want to praise an organisation called Kisharon, which runs a printers and a bicycle repair shop staffed solely by young people with autism, Asperger’s or other special needs. Together with a group called Interface, which is one of my local groups serving young people with autism, Asperger’s or any special needs, and the London borough of Redbridge, with private backing—I am sure the Treasury will be pleased to hear that, as there will be no financial impact on the Treasury—they are looking at how we take matters forward.
I have had meetings with leading companies where we plan to run a pilot scheme that will allow them to employ young people and for the young people to have training through local authorities so that they can achieve what they deserve—the best possible future. Obviously, I am not a professional and could not decide who would be suitable for what role.
I came into contact with one young man who found it difficult to interact in the workplace. An employer took this young man on, although there were difficulties. There were days when perhaps the young man took offence or had a problem with things that others may not have, but that firm took that into account and worked with that young man and he has now been there for some three years and is a valued employee. For obvious reasons, I do not intend naming him.
I also want to consider how this scheme can be rolled out. At the outset, these young people need to be assessed. We need to know what skills they have. We know only too well that many young people with autism or Asperger’s syndrome are brilliant with computers and IT, but may not have great communication skills in the workplace. There is no reason why they cannot work from a satellite centre or from home.
The scheme must be overseen, because people have to be put forward as mentors in companies to work with young people and make sure that it works out. I hope to work with my Government and with charities such as the National Autistic Society, Kisharon, Interface and many others to take this forward and to run a pilot to get young people into employment and achieving as much as possible.
I return to the point about where such people might live. Many parents are concerned about what will happen to their child when they are no longer around. I have visited many small houses where four or five young people live with a housekeeper but look after themselves and go out to employment and to courses. That is the way forward for people in this group. We then need to analyse the programme’s outcomes over the years. I know from my conversations with the National Autistic Society and others that they want to see it rolled out throughout the country, so that the young man in York can find employment just as easily as the young man living in Ilford North or Redbridge.
Lord Freud has taken this matter forward in the other place and is meeting businesses, and I look forward to working with him on this. If we do not take this forward and get involved in helping, we will truly be letting down some of the most vulnerable people in our society. We all have concerns about youth unemployment. We heard them during the statement on gang crime and we have heard them in various debates, but I do not believe that anyone is happy with the present situation. I know that my Government want to take action on this. Words from me are not enough and I sincerely hope that I will receive the backing of every Member in the House today and can then return in a year’s time and say that this is working for the young people who have autism, Asperger’s and other special needs. I hope that I will be able to work with everyone in the House to achieve it and show that it is a success.
Question put and agreed to.
Ordered,
That Mr Lee Scott, Jon Cruddas, Dr Sarah Wollaston, Mike Gapes, Mr Brian Binley, John Cryer, Simon Kirby, Mr John Leech, Robert Halfon, Paul Maynard, Dr Julian Huppert and Mr. Robert Buckland present the Bill.
Mr Lee Scott accordingly presented the Bill.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 20 January 2012, and to be printed (Bill 242).
Mr Speaker
Before we come to the main business of the day—the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill—we have a point of order.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I have some guidance on whether it is appropriate for the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), to speak for the Government on this part of the Bill, given the media interest from The Daily Telegraph and The Guardian in his business interests in the insurance industry? I know that the Government have had a problem with this because they took part of his responsibilities from him on 17 October.
Mr Speaker
The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that it is for Members to take responsibility for their own interests and, as necessary, if they think it appropriate, seek advice from the Registrar, and there is of course an obligation upon Ministers, of which the Minister will be well aware, to comply with the ministerial code, but beyond that no special comment needs to be made on the matter. It is perfectly proper for the Government to decide which Minister should take the proceedings on the Floor of the House.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Given that my financial interests have today once again been regurgitated by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner), and given that they formed the subject of a complaint by his colleague the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), I think it is wrong of him, almost to the point of being misleading, not to mention that the Cabinet Secretary found, and informed his hon. Friend of the fact, that I had declared my relevant interests, had not acted in conflict of interest and had acted in the public interest. Will the hon. Gentleman now acknowledge that?
Mr Speaker
The Minister has put the position, including new evidence, very clearly on the record. However, points of order cannot be the occasion for a debate, which would be wrong. The Minister has clarified the position, Members will have heard it—
Mr Speaker
Order. The Chair of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), has important responsibilities in the House. I do not want him at this early hour to get overexcited; that usually happens later in the day, not yet. Let us proceed in a seemly manner with the help of the Chair of the Select Committee.
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Kenneth Clarke)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 31—Life sentence for second listed offence.
Government new clause 32—New extended sentences.
Government new clause 33—New extended sentences: release on licence etc.
Government new clause 34—Power to change test for release on licence of certain prisoners.
New clause 3—Determination of minimum term in relation to mandatory life sentence—
‘In Schedule 21 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003—
“(a) Substitute paragraph 5(2)(g) with—
“(g) a murder that is racially or religiously aggravated or aggravated by sexual orientation or disability,”
(b) Substitute paragraph 5A(10)(b) with—
“(b) the fact that the victim was at greater risk of harm because of age or disability,”.’.
Government new schedule 4—‘Life sentence for second listed offence etc: new Schedule 15B to Criminal Justice Act 2003 Offences listed for the purposes of sections 224A, 226A and 246A.
Government new schedule 5—‘Life sentence for second listed offence: consequential and transitory provision.
Government new schedule 6—‘New extended sentences: consequential and transitory provision.
Government new schedule 7—‘Release of new extended sentence prisoners: consequential provision.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Government new clause 24—Power to increase certain other fines on conviction by magistrates’ court.
Government new clause 25—Power to amend standard scale of fines for summary offences.
Mr Blunt
The new clauses are designed to remove the upper limits on the fines that can currently be imposed in magistrates courts. Raising the upper limits on fines gives sentencers greater flexibility to identify the most effective punishment appropriate to the offences and offenders before them, particularly when combined with other disposals such as suspended sentences when offenders are close to the custodial threshold.
The Government believe that financial penalties, as long as they are set at the right level, can be just as effective as community payback or curfews in punishing offenders and deterring them from further offending. Fines hit offenders where it hurts: in their pockets. They also have the advantage of not affecting opportunities for employment or having an impact on family responsibilities, and hence can prevent further acceleration into a criminal lifestyle. Moreover, they do not impose a further burden on the already hard-pressed taxpayer or on society as a whole. Not only are fines punitive; they provide reparation for society, and serve as part of offenders’ restoration to all of us.
That is why courts already have flexibility to impose fines in cases that have passed the community sentence threshold. It is entirely right for them to be able to consider the circumstances of the offences and of the offenders before them, and, having weighed up the various purposes of sentencing, to decide that a fine will provide an appropriate level of punishment and deterrence without needing to consider a community order. Courts already have wide discretion to make use of fines in appropriate cases, and the Government want to support and encourage that.
We particularly wish to ensure that magistrates, who issue the vast majority of fines, have the powers that they need to set fines at levels that are proportionate to the most serious offences that come before them for trial. These clauses therefore make two key changes to the way that fines operate in the magistrates courts. The first is to replace all upper limits of £5,000 or more for fines available on summary conviction. At the moment, where an offence is triable on summary conviction only, magistrates do not have the option of committing the case to the Crown court for sentence and are constrained in their ability to fine by the statutory maximum fines. For the most serious offences tried by magistrates, that is generally £5,000, although for certain offences where the financial gain from offending is substantial—for example, in some environmental offences—the maximum fine can be as high as £50,000.
For less serious offences, we believe that it is right to retain the differentials between the punishments. However, we wish to give Government and Parliament more flexibility to amend these maxima as the need arises.
Mr Speaker
Order. Before I call the next speaker, I point out that I think the House would expect the Minister to have five minutes to respond to the debate.
Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for the four minutes.
A lot has been said. We have heard about parallel universes; indeed, we come here from different parts of the nation to offer different views. We have heard that the Englishman’s home is his castle. It is awful for people when their home is broken into; it feels desecrated and dirty. Where have the intruders been and what have they been up to? It is an awful feeling and we understand it, but when I heard some of the comments from Government Members I thought about my perspective—my universe.
When we talk about squatters, people think in terms of their own home, but that is a far cry from my experience of squatters. I am talking about people in places where there is no electricity, gas or water. There is no toilet and in some cases there is not even a roof. The properties are cold, damp, dark and very dangerous, with rats, stench and disease. They are also very violent places.
What about the squatters? We are not talking about hippy communes, with bean bags, beer and loud music, or about scroungers who ought to pull their socks up and get a job or go back home. We are talking about people without friends or families, and possibly without futures. In my experience, no one squats if an alternative is available.
That may not be the experience of other people, but it is mine. Debate on the provisions on legal aid and social welfare was shamefully evaded last night, but so many people in squats have suffered as a result of the failure of our system. In many cases, the state has put them into that position, whether the health service or the council; 78% of squatters have been turned away by their local authority. The failure may relate to employment support, or people may have just been downright unlucky.
Where on earth is the value in adding a criminal record to the problems those people face? The proposals are irresponsible. They are costly. At a time when we are being asked to do so many things that are unpleasant and unpopular, but possibly necessary for the deficit reduction plan, these proposals would simply add to the costs that we will all have to face, if not in our communities then in Armley prison. It does not make sense. The proposals do not add up.
The two universes could be brought together through amendment (a), which is a compromise that would improve the enforcement of existing legislation, with the back-up of the six-months provision. I shall support it.
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Chris Bryant
If Secretary of State is not embarrassed, as he now suggests, he has gone down in my estimation.
The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) said that all these matters have been extensively debated, but it is one thing to debate a matter in its general application and principles but quite a different matter to look at the wording on the page when it actually comes to legislation.
As I understand the rules of this House, given that we have not yet carried the motion before us, no amendments to which the Government have referred can possibly yet have been tabled. So, they will be tabled tonight and appear on the Order Paper tomorrow, and consequently we will not be able to table amendments to those amendments until after that. I can see the Clerk saying “No, no, no”, so perhaps I have got that completely wrong—[Interruption.] He is nodding now, so I hope that hon. Members will feel free to ignore the last part of my speech and remember everything I said at the beginning of it, and that they will oppose this ludicrous process.
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill
John Bercow Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. I am not absolutely sure in my mind, so the hon. Gentleman might wish to indicate, whether he was intending to allow the hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) to have a brief opportunity to speak. I do not know whether he was intending it, but if he is I am sure he will be approaching the conclusion of his remarks.
Guy Opperman
I am grateful for the advice and assistance, Mr Speaker, and I will conclude in approximately one and a half minutes—
Mr Slaughter
It is good to hear the Minister talking about possible future concessions in this area. To be fair to him, he has always said that the Government’s aim is to protect the most vulnerable. How does he square that with the fact that he has orchestrated the talking out of the main group of amendments today, which affects many of the lowest-income and most vulnerable people in this country? Why are we not getting on to talking about other areas of social welfare law? Is it to protect the hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), whose law centre is losing all its funding? Is it to protect the Minister’s coalition allies from withdrawing—
Mr Djanogly
I say to the hon. Gentleman that I have enjoyed listening to my hon. Friends and to some of his hon. Friends this evening, in what has been a very informed debate. We have heard some expert contributions, not least from my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham, who started by saying that he had acted in 100 clinical negligence cases. I do not think that there has been any time wasting at all—not nearly as much time wasting as when the hon. Gentleman held a three-hour debate on the first group of amendments on the first day in Committee.
Mr Djanogly
I hope those many people will be as unimpressed as I am by what the hon. Gentleman just said.
Let me address the interaction of legal aid and the Jackson proposals, which was mentioned by three or four hon. Members. In addition to reforming legal aid, the Government are introducing fundamental reform of no win, no fee conditional fee agreements, as recommended by Lord Justice Jackson. During the consultation on his recommendations, concerns were raised about the funding of expert reports in clinical negligence cases. Those reports can be expensive and we need to provide a means of funding them to ensure that meritorious claims can be brought by those who cannot readily afford to pay for them up front. That is why, in making changes to the CFA regime, we are making special arrangements for the funding of expert reports in clinical negligence claims.
The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East suggested that victims of clinical negligence who take their cases on CFAs will lose their damages in legal fees. As recommended by Lord Justice Jackson, we are reforming CFAs because of the high costs introduced by changes that were made by the previous Government in relation to the recoverability of success fees and after-the-event insurance. Lord Justice Jackson recommended that there should be a cap on damages in personal injury cases that can be taken in lawyer success fees—the cap should be 25% of the damages, not including damages for future care and loss. The Government have accepted that recommendation, so that victims of personal injury, including from clinical negligence, will have their damages protected under CFAs.
The Civil Justice Council is looking at some of the technical aspects of implementing the Jackson recommendations. I spoke with it on this issue only this morning, when I also attended a conference on issues such as how the 25% cap will work to protect damages.
The hon. Gentleman said that the proposal would be fairer if the Government were not introducing the Jackson reforms, and asked why we were implementing both at the same time. We are considering all those major changes together and in the round. At the same time as seeking to make savings from the legal aid budget, we are taking forward those priority measures that were recommended by Lord Justice Jackson, to address the disproportionate and unaffordable cost of civil litigation. It is essential that those proposals are considered at the same time. The current CFA regime, with its recoverable costs, causes a significant burden on, for example, the NHS. Withdrawing legal aid for clinical negligence without reforming CFAs could increase that burden significantly.
The hon. Gentleman said that claimants in severe injury cases are more likely to be disabled and frail and so forth, and being unable to bring proceedings—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The Minister is not quite enjoying the studious attention of the House that I feel sure his words warrant.
Mr Djanogly
The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East asked how such cases can be excluded from scope. We consider that CFAs are a viable alternative source of funding to legal aid. CFAs are more readily available in clinical negligence cases than in cases for other types of claim that are currently funded under legal aid. We therefore consider that legal aid is not justified in such cases, and that our limited funding will be better targeted at other priority areas.
It was also said that such claims are not just money claims, and that damages ensure quality of life for the claimant for the remainder of their lives, and hon. Members asked how it can therefore be right to exclude them. Legal aid is currently available to those who qualify financially and who have suffered negligent medical treatment to seek damages from any type of public or private medical practitioners. Although those are claims for monetary compensation, we consider that they often raise very serious issues, especially when the damages are required to meet future needs. Some litigants will be vulnerable because of disabilities that result from negligent treatment.
We were then asked how the Government could expect CFAs to make up the shortfall, given that they would not be available in a large number of cases, such as those involving long-term impairment. Our legal aid proposals would ensure that particular cases in which it might be difficult to secure a CFA continue to receive legal aid where the failure to provide such funding was likely to result in a breach of the individual’s rights.
Mr Llwyd
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
The Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time (Standing Order No. 83E).
Amendment made: 11, page 99, line 36, at end insert—
‘“personal representative”, in relation to an individual who has died, means—
(a) a person responsible for administering the individual’s estate under the law of England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, or
(b) a person who, under the law of another country or territory, has functions equivalent to those of administering the individual’s estate;’.—(Mr Djanogly.)
Amendment proposed: 92, page 103, line 35, leave out ‘physical or mental abuse’ and insert ‘any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (whether physical, mental, financial or emotional)’.—(Mr Llwyd.)
Question put, That the amendment be made.
Mr Speaker
Order. When a Member is announcing the result of a vote, the House really must be calm and listen. That is only polite.
Amendment proposed: 74, page 104, line 23, at end insert—
‘(10) For the purposes of this paragraph, evidence that A has been abused by B or is at risk of being abused by B may consist of one or more of the following (without limitation)—
(a) a relevant court conviction or police caution;
(b) a relevant court order (including without notice, ex parte, interim or final orders) including a non-molestation order, occupation order, forced marriage protection order or other protective injunction;
(c) evidence of relevant criminal proceedings for an offence concerning domestic violence or a police report confirming attendance at an incident resulting from domestic violence;
(d) evidence that a victim has been referred to a Multi-Agency Risk Assessment Conference (as a high-risk victim of domestic violence) and a plan has been put in place to protect that victim from violence by the other party;
(e) a finding of fact in the family courts of domestic violence by the other party giving rise to the risk of harm to the victim;
(f) a medical report from a doctor at a UK hospital confirming that the applicant has injuries consistent with being a victim of domestic violence, such injuries not being limited to physical injuries;
(g) a letter from a General Medical Council registered general practitioner confirming that he or she has examined the applicant and is satisfied that the applicant had injuries consistent with those of a victim of domestic violence;
(h) an undertaking given to a court that the perpetrator of the abuse will not approach the applicant who is the victim of the abuse;
(i) a letter from a social services department confirming its involvement in connection with domestic violence;
(j) a letter of support or a report from a domestic violence support organisation; or
(k) other well-founded documentary evidence of abuse (such as from a counsellor, midwife, school or witnesses).
(11) For the avoidance of doubt, no time limit shall operate in relation to any evidence supporting an application for civil legal services under paragraph 10.’.—(Mr Slaughter.)
The House proceeded to a Division.
Mr Speaker
Order. I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman, in his ingenious point of order, has not merely posed the question but furnished the House with the answer. He has identified that mechanism and paid his tribute, and it has rightly been received with enthusiasm and respect. I hope the hon. Gentleman and the House are satisfied.