Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Simon Hoare Excerpts

Friday 13th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Kim Leadbeater]

No, I am going to make some progress, if that is okay.

The substances that would be used would not be new substances. As we know, assisted dying is available in many other jurisdictions, and there are substances that have been used safely and, in some cases, for many years. Their safety and efficacy has been proven around the world, but they do need to be treated differently, which is the purpose of new clause 13.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

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[Dr Sandher]

I have spent a lot of time around data, but I am not sure that I understand the question.

[Simon Hoare]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Dr Sandher]

I will make a bit more progress.

This has been a heated debate, and hon. Members on both sides of the House feel strongly about it. I am grateful to Members who came before me, who made my place here possible and who have spoken so powerfully and movingly in this debate, but I believe—and the evidence shows—that the colour of my skin does not belong in discussion of the Bill.

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[Rebecca Smith]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention and I completely agree with him. These are the sorts of safeguards that even the promoter of the Bill is saying should be there. I do not think that they are in the Bill and my amendment to new clause 15 would make them much stronger.

[Simon Hoare]

My hon. Friend is right in what she says. Those of us who are opposed to the death penalty, for example, are against it because we do not believe in the infallibility of the state. The state can get things wrong; professionals can get things wrong—and when they do, there should be a proven, clear path as to how that wrongdoing can be identified, to try to ensure that it does not occur again.

[Rebecca Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend. The statistics I quoted earlier are pretty clear on the point he makes. Let me make some progress.

The work undertaken by the coroner is not a box-ticking exercise or a bureaucratic hurdle. In the context of assisted dying, it is an extremely powerful deterrent against abuse and malpractice. Again, to quote Judge Thomas Teague KC, in a letter to The Times on 7 May this year, he said that the removal of

“any realistic prospect of an effective inquest...would magnify, rather than diminish, the obvious risks of deception and undue influence”.

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[Blair McDougall]

I do not wish to exacerbate your bronchitis, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I will continue.

Amendment 15 touches on a fundamental point at the heart of the debate. Disabled people and the sick, in every aspect of their lives, have to fight every day for resources from a state, a market and a society that view them as a drain on finances. Do we honestly believe that at the moment when the most vulnerable are least able to argue for themselves, under the most intense societal and cultural pressure, and at their most expensive, those same public and private sector institutions will succeed in making choice real for them when they have failed to do so throughout the rest of their lives? Even if we stretch credulity and convince ourselves that that will be true in the state sector, can we say that it will be true in the market? I do not believe that the Bill should be passed, but if it is, let us not make it worse by allowing unscrutinised profit from the loss of human beings.

[Simon Hoare]

I rise to speak in support of amendments (a) and (b) to new clause 14, new clauses 1, 2 and 16, and amendment (a) to new clause 15.

I will make two observations at the outset. I do so as a Welshman representing an English constituency, as a former Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, and as the current Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee. I remain to be convinced, despite the confidence expressed by the Bill’s promoter, that the Bill honours, in spirit and letter, the devolution settlement. Based on the expression on the face of the Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Glasgow West (Patricia Ferguson), I do not think she believes that it honours the devolution settlement as far as Scotland is concerned either.

I also make the point that we are here to make law that has to stand the test of time. She was not the only one to do so, but the hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Ellie Chowns) shared a heartfelt anecdote about a conversation with her mother as a result of her mother’s professional work. I know how easy it is to do, because it is a trap that I have fallen into, but, particularly on an issue as emotive and literally life-changing as this, we should not base our decision just on anecdote. We must base it on cold analysis of what is before us.

It is almost six months to the day since the Bill was introduced and still I think it is best described as skeletal. We have been told time and again by the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) and the Minister how busy officials have been looking at the practicalities of the Bill and how to operationalise it and make it workable. Yet this House is kept in the dark on what Ministers intend. Indeed, the hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Tony Vaughan) said in his earlier contribution that his understanding was that the hon. Lady was still prepared to work with colleagues to perfect the Bill. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, we are on the second day of Report stage and we could easily fall to Third Reading today. The time for that evolutionary conversation is long past. The time for detailed clarification is now. The Bill remains skeletal.

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[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hoare]

I will not; I am very conscious of time.

Madam Deputy Speaker, given that so many right hon. and hon. Members have been constrained in the length of their contributions because of your persistent cough—I say that not as a criticism—and that next week we have a lot of one-line Whips and the following week we have exactly the same, more time really should be given to the Bill. I do wish the Government had taken it on, not as a Government Bill but by finding Government time for Report on the Floor of the House. This is too serious an issue to have as many gaps and lacunae as this Bill has.

The founding fathers of the United States worked on the basis that the vague generalities of the constitution would always be adhered to, and that men and women of goodwill would adhere to it. I am pretty certain that they are now beginning posthumously, with the current incarnation, to wonder whether that is true. We should not be legislating to leave it up to Ministers to define regulations and decide how they come forward. We have Bills that have page after page after page which, when people ask themselves, “What is this all about?”, actually amount to very little. The amendments that have been tabled, and which I support, have been tabled in good faith, but I am afraid to say that, in trying to improve the Bill, they are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

[Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)]

I rise to support new clauses 20 and 21, and amendments 70, 71 and 92 to 95. They are all about the right people having the right powers at the right time, and they respect the devolution settlement for Wales. I am mindful of time, and therefore I am sorry but I will not take interventions. I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) for engaging so meaningfully and strongly with the Welsh Government, including going to Cardiff to speak with Welsh Health Ministers and officials, to ensure that they are continually consulted during this process.

New clause 20 ensures that the Secretary of State, not the chief medical officer, is responsible for issuing guidance on the operation of the Bill. It enhances oversight and accountability by placing that responsibility with the Secretary of State, so that scrutiny and accountability regarding how the Bill will be implemented in practice is put in the right place. It is normal practice that officials whose roles and responsibilities may alter over time are not named in primary legislation. It is, however, important to note that the chief medical officer is not being cut out of the process, because the chief medical officers for England and Wales must be consulted. The new clause also allows persons with learning disabilities and other protected characteristics, as well as providers of palliative care services, to contribute to the process of provisioning guidance. It is a simple but important measure that ensures the right level of ministerial oversight, and I urge colleagues to support it.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Mr Barros-Curtis) has explained, it is important to urge Members to support new clause 21, because it ensures that people in Wales are able to access the assisted dying process in the Welsh language if that is their preference. Almost 30% of the population in Wales speak Welsh, and it is so important that they can access this service in their language should they wish to do so. It is a small change, but it will make a huge difference to patients, families and clinicians in Wales.

Amendments 70 and 71 simply refine provisions around the use of interpreters, requiring the Secretary of State to publish a code of practice on the matter. Interpreters are essential to ensure fair and equal access to the assisted dying process for those whose first language is not English or Welsh.

Amendments 92 and 93 provide greater detail on the Welsh Government’s responsibilities in delivering assisted dying services in Wales. Some hon. Members seem confused about what is and is not devolved, but as a Welsh MP, I wholeheartedly support the amendments, which 100% respect devolution. They ensure that Welsh Ministers have all the powers they need regarding the devolved aspects of the Bill and the health provisions, while retaining the powers of UK Ministers over those aspects that are not devolved, such as criminal justice provisions and, crucially, changes to the Suicide Act 1961.

Amendments 94 and 95 clarify how and when provisions relating to voluntary assisted dying will come into force in Wales. They do not impinge on the devolution settlement, but simply provide clarity and legal certainty. All the amendments would help my constituent, Noah, a 19-year-old with a terminal brain tumour who knows what he wants if his pain becomes unbearable. The Bill is about giving people like Noah the choice, control and compassion that they deserve at the end of life. Who are we to deny that choice?

I pay tribute once again to my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley for working closely with officials in both Wales and this place to craft what could be the strongest and most safeguarded assisted dying legislation anywhere in the world. It is a Bill designed to protect everyone, including my constituents in Monmouthshire and people across Wales. Thanks to the careful, considered amendments, including the ones that I have spoken about today, the Bill not only respects the devolution settlement but ensures that the right people hold the right powers at the right time to deliver this law safely. I urge Members to join me in the Aye Lobby to legislate to protect the rights of the terminally ill in their final months—to legislate for compassion, for choice and for dignity.