Oral Answers to Questions

Roger Williams Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

As I told the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), we intend to modulate 15% into pillar two, and there are real benefits for the rural economy, the rural environment and rural society from our rural development programme for England schemes.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Upland farms in the UK, particularly those in England, are good at delivering environmental objectives. What will the reformed CAP do to ensure that upland farms maintain their financial viability, so they can continue to deliver those public goods?

Common Agricultural Policy

Roger Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

That depends on how we define repatriation. We have been arguing strongly for increased flexibility at national and regional level for those countries that have devolved Administrations. The obvious examples are the United Kingdom and Belgium, both of which feel strongly about this matter. We need the option to define some of the terms and regulations that will be put in place, so that they match our forms of agriculture. There is already divergence within this country over the application of the CAP. For example, there are still historic payments in Scotland. In my personal view, there will eventually be a need for internal convergence on that issue, but it is for the Scots to decide on the rate of change and on whether that should happen sooner or later. I believe that it is a distorting element at the moment.

The UK Government also argued, however, that we did not want a sudden, bumpy transition that would put the Scottish Government in difficulties while they were trying to achieve their objectives. So, although we want internal convergence, we have asked for as smooth a transition as possible because that will be in the interests of the devolved Administrations. There is already a considerable degree of variation in the way in which the current scheme works. We are trying to ensure that that continues and is enhanced under the new rules.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

The Minister has put on record his intention to help hill and upland farmers in England. At the moment, there are three rates for the single payment, relating to moorlands, severely disadvantaged areas and lowlands. Would it not be advantageous to upland farmers if we had only moorland and lowland payments?

[Mr Heath]

As always, my hon. Friend is very well informed on these subjects. He is right, and that is something that we will be looking at in relation to the implementation phase.

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[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I draw the attention of Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

[Miss McIntosh]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I omitted to refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Is there anybody else while we are on the record? If not, I call Roger Williams.

[Roger Williams]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am glad that my contribution has caused so much interest in the Chamber.

The shadow Minister was rather fierce in his criticism of the Minister. Only yesterday, a Minister from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs came to the House to make a statement on the common fisheries policy. That was always seen to be intractable, yet the outcome seemed to have the support of the whole Chamber. Indeed, we hope that the CAP negotiations will meet with the same success.

It has been said that little progress has been made in reforming the CAP—the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham), who is no longer in his place, said so at the beginning of the debate—but I must remind everybody that 25 years ago CAP expenditure amounted to 75% of EU funding, whereas it now amounts to just over 40%. In that time, the amount spent by the average UK family on food has decreased from 25% of disposable income to about 15%, although sadly that trend is moving in the opposite direction because of the increases in commodity prices. Back in the 1980s, the CAP depended on market support and intervention through export subsidies and import tariffs, which were really trade-distorting implements and very unfair on developing countries. Things moved on, however, and in 1993 the MacSharry proposals introduced direct payments that were not so trade distorting, and in 2003, the Fischler proposals decoupled support, which was another step forward.

Why do we still need a CAP? It was first introduced to ensure that people working in agriculture and the countryside had incomes comparable to those in more urban and industrial occupations. Sadly, it has been unsuccessful in doing that, and incomes in the countryside are still less than in towns. Many farming businesses in this country would be making no profit at all, if it were not for direct payments.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

How concerned is the hon. Gentleman, therefore, about the drive towards a referendum on the British state’s membership of the EU based on renegotiated terms, including the repatriation of the CAP and convergence funding? How concerned is he about the impact that that would have on the industry in Wales?

[Roger Williams]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern. The Farmers Union of Wales has made it clear that is sees EU membership as fundamental to a successful Welsh agricultural sector.

We need resilience in our farming communities and businesses. As has been pointed out, farming businesses across the country have experienced poor conditions in the past two years. The Chairman of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee pointed out that for two years now the UK has been a net importer of cereals, whereas we used to be a net exporter. We need resilience in our farming businesses, therefore, if they are to survive from one difficult period to another period in which they can rebuild their resources and capital. We will experience great difficulties with food security over the coming years. With the world population now reaching 7 billion and probably reaching 9 billion by 2050, the demand for food will increase, and it is thought that northern Europe, particularly its maritime areas, might be well placed after climate change to maintain its agricultural production. We should be looking to the CAP to ensure that.

I ask the Minister to address a number of issues that have already been raised. The first is co-financing of voluntary modulation. The UK farming community is concerned about voluntary modulation, because it would put it at a competitive disadvantage against other countries that compete with us on food production. Co-financing, if possible, could mitigate some of the problems perceived by British agriculture. Secondly, the greening proposals should be as simple and easy to follow as possible. The last thing we want are complex proposals leading to penalties being applied to individual farmers or DEFRA. I was on the EFRA Committee when the single farm payment was first introduced. The Rural Payments Agency made a terrible mess of delivering those payments and, as a result, a lot of DEFRA money had to be returned to the EU, rather than being spent on supporting our agricultural sector, so simplicity is important. Some large-scale arable and horticultural businesses would be willing to forgo the greening element—30% of the single farm payment—in order to maintain their focus on commercial activity, so what proposals does the Minister have for using those elements not taken up by businesses?

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Common Fisheries Policy

Roger Williams Excerpts

Monday 17th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

There are two sides to this. First, we are busy getting round the fleet in all parts of the United Kingdom and having discussions on the quayside about what this means for each vessel owner on each trip they make. An enormous amount of work has been done, but more needs to be done to satisfy that. Let me also take this opportunity to say that one of the most important things for fishermen in Scotland is to remain part of one of 29 voting members of the European Union. Those fishermen are best represented by a country the size of the United Kingdom, because we were able to have negotiations with other large fishing countries, which we would not be able to do if they were independent.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

We on the Liberal Democrat Benches also commend the Minister and his team for the marvellous work they have done and the results that have been achieved, as do the wildlife trusts throughout the length and breadth of this land that have campaigned on the same issues. They, too, will be pleased.

It has been suggested that the North sea cod fishery could soon be designated as sustainable, which would be a tremendous achievement. Would the Minister like to comment on that?

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely agree on the wildlife trusts and their firm commitment to marine conservation; I continue to work closely with them. It was very good news on cod stocks. In the Barents sea to the north of our waters, they are going to catch over 1 million tonnes of cod sustainably this year. Cod is increasing in quantity and biomass in UK waters, but it is not yet at the point where it is a sustainable fishery. Two of the three Marine Stewardship Council boxes are ticked—the healthy ecosystem and management—but the stock is not yet quite at that rate. It is on an upwards graph, however, which is to be rejoiced at, and the fishing industry is to be applauded for its role in achieving that, too.

Dog Control and Welfare

Roger Williams Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[Miss McIntosh]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention. It is important that we get the measure right. The parallel with horse passports is appropriate, but we need to see the guidance and exactly how the programme will be rolled out. Microchipping is an important tool, but it is not the full answer.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for giving way and compliment her on her report. She makes the point that when dogs were supposed to be licensed, only 50% of owners complied with the requirement. The same will be true of microchipping: the responsible owners will carry it out and the irresponsible will not. Does she agree that it should be a serious offence not to have a dog microchipped and that that offence should be subject to punishment?

[Miss McIntosh]

My hon. Friend reinforces the Select Committee’s point that the microchip is a tool but not the whole answer. We fear that we will find out which are the unmicrochipped dogs when they are left abandoned as strays on the street, when it is impossible to bear down on the irresponsible dog owner. Each and every one of us has a role to play if we see dubious breeding activities or dubious behavioural activities in dogs. I hope that goes some way to answering my hon. Friend’s point.

The Committee agreed with the Government’s proposed amendment of the 1991 Act, which makes attacks on private land the same as attacks on public land, and we welcome the fact that that loophole will be closed. It will go some way to reassuring people, such as the parents of Jade Anderson, that such horrendous attacks will not happen in the future. However, we warned that police and prosecutors must distinguish between intruders and those who are lawfully on a person’s property when enforcing the law. That is reflected in the representations we received for today’s debate from Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, Blue Cross, Dogs Trust and other such charities.

Having seen the details of how the measure would be enacted, we recommended in our May pre-legislative scrutiny report a number of changes to the proposed clauses. I hope that the Minister will look favourably on the key recommendation that the proposed clauses be amended to enable the exemption from prosecution for someone whose dog attacked an intruder to apply to sheds and other enclosed buildings associated with the home and not just to the main home. That relates to the vexatious argument of curtilage and other appendages. Perhaps he can update us today on that matter.

The Government give assurances that mitigating circumstances for dog attacks in gardens and other open spaces around the home will be taken into account by the courts and enforcement agencies. To safeguard legitimate visitors to a property, such as postal and health workers, we thought it reasonable for the householder exemption from prosecution to apply only to buildings, not to open spaces around the home. The briefing we have had from the Communication Workers Union highlights the staggering number of attacks on postal workers in any one month, and in any one year.

Badger Cull

Roger Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Nia Griffith]

The European Commission has set out an indicative 10-year timetable for the cattle BCG vaccine and DIVA test to be available for use, but as the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, said, the timetable is precisely that: indicative. I ask the Government to put every effort into further research into the steps necessary to make the vaccine and the test both effective and usable in the international context. That is the way to make sure the farmer is in control, which is the real way to deal with the problem.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I know the hon. Lady is completely genuine in her views, but does she not agree that the vaccine will be effective only in 60% of a cattle herd, with 40% remaining susceptible to TB if infected badgers are present in their grazing area?

[Nia Griffith]

That highlights the need for further scientific research and development. Clearly there is still work to do if we are to produce a more effective vaccine.

The Welsh Government have taken a different approach from England: rather than cull badgers, Welsh Ministers have started a vaccination programme, which has successfully trapped and vaccinated 1,400 badgers in its first year of operation. In March 2012, the then Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development, John Griffiths, announced a new strategic framework for bovine TB eradication covering the next four years. The programme builds on existing cattle surveillance and control measures, biosecurity best practice—all those are of great importance—and input received from stakeholder engagement; it also includes vaccination of badgers within the intensive action area.

The vaccination project was undertaken in the TB intensive action area in west Wales, which is primarily in north Pembrokeshire and covers approximately 288 sq km. It is the first time that a project to trap, cage and vaccinate badgers on such a large scale has been carried out. Field operations began in March 2012, and last season the programme trapped and vaccinated 1,424 badgers. A further round of field work started this year, in May. A welfare assessment of every badger is undertaken at the time of capture: none was found to be seriously injured and no badger showed any sign of adverse reaction to the vaccination. Participation in the project is voluntary and the Welsh Government are grateful for the co-operation and assistance received from farmers and landowners, with a total of 472 landowners having allowed access to their land.

The Welsh Government have met the three regional TB eradication delivery boards and representatives of animal welfare and conservation organisations to take their views on expanding the use of badger vaccination to cover the rest of Wales. Government-led and cost-sharing options are being explored, including the possibility of a grant to attract new partners and funding. The Welsh Government have also focused on incorporating new technological developments as they become available. In December 2012, the chief veterinary officer, Christianne Glossop, organised a pioneering two-day cattle vaccination workshop to consider the contribution that might make. It was attended by some of the world’s leading experts in vaccination and disease eradication programmes and among the key observations that emerged was that there is a need to gain field experience with cattle BCG vaccine here in the UK.

On that note, I repeat to the Secretary of State and the Minister for Farming that the real way forward is vaccination for cattle. We need to get the best scientific evidence and the best collaboration with our partners in Europe to make that an effective approach.

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[Andrew George]

Absolutely; that is fully understood. Indeed, many people working on our wider advisory group are already doing this work. We have consulted the Killerton estate in Devon, which has been doing this for a couple of years. Professor Rosie Woodroffe is trapping badgers in that area at this very moment; she is working with farmers on her own programme, which is funded by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. There is a great deal of experience and knowledge going into this, as well as understanding of the challenges of rolling out such a programme. I have a great deal of experience of this, too. We believe that we can proceed with a very effective programme, with the proper support of landowners in the area, though taking on 200 sq km is a significant challenge.

[Roger Williams]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his proactive stance, but we have heard how difficult it is to estimate the number of badgers in an area. How will his group be confident that it has vaccinated a percentage, if not 100%, of badgers in the area?

[Andrew George]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. We have the involvement of a scientist who was very much involved in the randomised badger control trial, Rosie Woodroffe; she is supported by a team of scientists from other academic institutions and scientists who were involved in the RBCT. She is already undertaking a survey in the area, because there is field work going on there. Those scientists understand the science of undertaking a rigorous survey of the badger population in the area. Costed into the project’s overall business plan is not only the surveying, but scientific monitoring, because we need to get rigorous information on the scientific outcomes, so that lessons can be learned and the project can be rolled out further.

We have consulted widely; we have spoken to many of those who have experience of undertaking such work in the countryside, as well as farmers in the area, the major landowner—the National Trust, which is of course already on board—the wildlife trusts and others, and we are confident that the programme could be very effective. We are talking about an area where, in the RBCT, there was only 50% compliance with the trial, so a licence would never have been given, even if one were applied for. This programme could be rolled out very effectively, and could be very successful. It would also be less costly than a cull. We are hoping to introduce cattle measures as well. For that reason, and because we want to keep an open mind on the issue, although I believe that the pilot should not go ahead, I will abstain in the vote on the issue tonight, because I want to make sure that I get Government support for my vaccination programme.

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[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I declare an interest as a farmer who owns cattle, albeit in Wales, which is not covered by the Government’s proposals. However, we have certainly been affected by bovine TB. People who are more directly involved are deciding to go out of cattle as a result of that.

I am disappointed that we are having this debate although I fully support the Government’s proposals. I am disappointed because in the 1980s, bovine TB was practically eliminated from the United Kingdom. That was achieved by using many of the processes that we are now using to try to eliminate it. The disease is out of control in terms of the number of farms and cattle affected. It is progressing northwards and eastwards away from the hot spots in the south-west.

As has been emphasised today, bovine TB is a complicated disease. Its epidemiology and the way in which it is spread are not well understood. One thing that we are certain about is that badgers infected with TB can pass it on to cattle, but there are other methods of infection. When there are diseased badgers in fields where cattle are grazing, there is the opportunity for the disease to be transmitted. Although we are cleaning up the disease in cattle, as long as there are infected badgers where they are grazing, the disease can spread. We have heard a lot about increased biosecurity, but the same people advocate natural forms of cattle production—in other words, grazing. As far as I know, there are no biosecurity measures that can keep badgers and cattle apart when cattle are grazing.

All farmers would say that if an effective vaccine were available, they would opt for it. However, as has been said, we are continually told that the vaccine is coming, but it never arrives. The injectable vaccine for badgers is a step forward and I am sure that it can be used in a package of measures to tackle the disease.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend and neighbour for allowing me to intervene. Does he share my disappointment that the Government in Wales are not going ahead with the cull that the Labour Government decided to carry out between 2007 and 2011? That cull would have taken place in Wales if they had not made a complete mess of the legalities.

[Roger Williams]

There is disappointment in Wales about that, but I want to continue to talk about the role that vaccines can play.

If cattle could be vaccinated, it would be a step forward that farmers would welcome. It has been said that that might cost £5 a head. Given the amount of medication that cattle receive in a year, £5 is of little consequence. Farmers would certainly leap at the opportunity.

The vaccine that is available now is the BCG vaccine, which a number of us of a certain age have been injected with. The Bacillus Calmette-Guérin vaccine was developed in Paris between 1910 and 1920. For all the work that has gone on to improve the TB vaccine for human beings, that is the only vaccine that is available. It is only about 60% effective in human beings and in animals.

I accept that a cull has a part to play because infection levels are so severe and all the other methods of control have proved to be ineffective. Farmers have co-operated with DEFRA and the Welsh Assembly Government to increase the number of tests that take place. In Wales, every farm is currently tested every year. If a reactor is detected, tests must be carried out every two months until there are two consecutive clear tests. That is an incredible commitment in terms of labour and expense. Other forms of control have taken place. Pre-testing before movement has proved to be effective, but it is not effective enough to get to grips with this disease that is affecting rural areas.

I believe that the Government have taken a tough decision. The randomised badger culling trials were scientific trials and were never thought to be a practical method of reducing TB. Professor King, who was the Government’s chief scientific adviser at the time, looked at the tests, identified the weaknesses and decided that there were ways to reduce the problem of badgers moving across the cull area. The Government have taken on board all those recommendations and come forward with proposals that I believe will have an impact in reducing and, eventually, eliminating the disease.

Oral Answers to Questions

Roger Williams Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Everybody agrees that there must be reform and improvement of the horse passporting system, but under the current system there is a derogation for native breeds such as Welsh mountain ponies and Exmoor ponies. Without that derogation, it would become almost financially impossible for people to continue to keep those breeds. Will the Secretary of State consider keeping the derogation so that we can continue to see those wonderful ponies on our wild hills and mountains?

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. He is right to say that a number of breeds are currently excluded. We will have to work this out as we discuss the new system, but I also hope that he will see the merits of having a centralised database, which we will work through with the passport-issuing authorities.

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[Mr Heath]

We have made it very clear that this Department will cover the marginal costs to the police forces involved of policing the cull, when it takes place. Obviously, the level of costs will be entirely dependent on the level of illegal activity in the areas in which the cull is taking place.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

T6. The Secretary of State often makes reference to the common agricultural policy delivering public goods for public money. Does he agree that the delivery of increased amounts of safe, high-quality, affordable food from this country’s farms is one such public good?

Upland Sheep Farmers

Roger Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

I will return to that, if I may, in just a moment.

I met farmers who have lived their entire lives in the uplands. These are not soft people. These are not weak people. These are some of the strongest, hardest men and women that you would care to meet in this country. They were feeling quite clearly devastated by the position they now find themselves in. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) knows, I was in Northern Ireland a few days ago as well, just talking to people about their experiences there—not my responsibility, as he will appreciate, in terms of the devolved settlement—and I heard exactly the same stories; exactly the same pain was being felt.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I apologise for not being present at the start of the debate. The Minister is quite right that a lot of the effect of the snow was very local. Certainly in the Radnor forest in my constituency it was particularly difficult. I want to make the point that the whole sheep industry has suffered a very long period of very severe weather, which has left a lot of those ewes very weak going into lambing, so it is not just the people that have been affected by snow but almost the whole of the sheep industry that has had a very difficult time.

[Mr Heath]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. In those extreme conditions of very heavy snowfall, with violent winds—in Cumbria, violent easterly winds coming in off the sea and causing the drifting—the sheep did what sheep do, which is to turn their backs to the wind and walk, and they found themselves trapped against walls or obstacles or under drifts. But what compounded that was that our sheep flocks, sadly, are not in good condition—because of the weather, because of events over many months now, because of the fact that, as the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire said, fluke is a real problem at the moment. Many issues have come together in a concatenation that is causing the difficulties that many of our livestock farmers face.

Oral Answers to Questions

Roger Williams Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

The hon. Gentleman is simply wrong about the consequences. I note that in the other place yesterday evening, their lordships, having carefully considered the evidence, supported the Government’s position.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Last night at the meeting of the all-party parliamentary group on cheese, the Minister was able to see a wide array of excellent British cheeses, which are highly regarded in the world markets. I know that the Secretary of State has done good work promoting British cheese in China. What other countries will the Department target on behalf of these excellent British products?

[Mr Heath]

I think we have to do everything we can to promote excellent British products. Indeed, I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend said about cheese. I was delighted to see cheese from my own constituency on display at last night’s meeting, but I was even more delighted only last week to see cheese produced only four miles from where I live on display in Dubai at the biggest international trade fair in the world. We were promoting the interests of British business, and over 60 businesses were there. I will also be pleased to join British companies in promoting good British produce in Bangkok next week.

Responsible Dog Ownership

Roger Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

As ever, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray.

Responsible dog ownership may not be at the top of everyone’s political agenda, and it might not be at the top of every party’s political agenda, but, nevertheless, it is of national importance. I look forward today to addressing a number of issues that have been raised over the past few years.

The UK is a nation of dog lovers. I dare say that the majority of dogs are kept as pets by loving owners and families. Children adore the tricks and licks of their loving pets. Of course, the elderly generation often keep dogs for personal affection and constant companionship.

Following the last general election, the coalition Government said they would

“promote responsible pet ownership by introducing effective codes of practice under the Animal Welfare Act, and will ensure that enforcement agencies target irresponsible owners of dangerous dogs.”

That has not happened. This morning’s debate will accentuate the weakness of the coalition’s recent proposals and announcements on dog ownership, and hopefully provide a robust framework for cross-party agreement on much stronger and more detailed legislation to be introduced sooner than the Government currently anticipate. There is cross-party agreement on most parts of the announced legislation, and there is not much difference between the parties other than perhaps on the timing of the required legislation’s introduction.

The statement by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on 6 February was described by the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs as “belated” and “woefully inadequate.” The Committee called for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs urgently to introduce a Bill to consolidate fragmented legislation on dog control and welfare.

Additionally, the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), said:

“Current laws have comprehensively failed to tackle irresponsible dog ownership. DEFRA’s belated proposals…are too limited.

Since 2007 dogs have killed seven people, including five children, in private homes…More than 100,000 strays are found each year; incidences of cruelty and neglect are rising and many dogs are out of control due to the irresponsible or deliberate actions of a minority of owners.

The evidence we received from DEFRA and the Home Office did little to reassure us that either Department is giving sufficient priority to dog control and welfare issues.

The Home Office approach to tackling antisocial behaviour is too simplistic; and fails to reflect the impact that poor breeding and training by irresponsible owners can have on a dog’s behaviour…New rules should give enforcement officers more effective powers, including Dog Control Notices, to prevent dog-related antisocial behaviour. Local authorities need to devote more resources to the effective management of stray dogs.”

The hon. Lady has done terrific work on dog ownership, which is an important topic, and she is much in line with the views of Opposition Members. Dog ownership is a massive issue, and the responsibility that comes with ownership increases almost daily.

Mr Gray, may I gently stray ever so slightly to the issue of stray and loose horses? I do not often get the opportunity of having both the Minister and the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), in the same room. In my constituency there is an issue with wild and loose horses. Mr Gray, I see that you are shaking your head to suggest that I should not stray on to that ground, but perhaps the Minister will agree to meet me to discuss that out-of-hand legislation. [Interruption.] Thank you, Mr Gray. [Laughter.] I have in my notes, “will not be accepted by the Chair.”

Dog ownership is an important issue, and I have some key facts and figures that are quite enlightening. There are approximately 9 million dogs in the UK. Every year 250,000 people attend GP surgeries, minor injury units or accident and emergency departments after being bitten by dogs, and there are more than 6,000 hospital admissions resulting from dog attacks. The cost of dog attacks to the NHS is probably some £10 million. There are some 5,000 dog attacks on postmen and postwomen each year, of which 70% are on private property where irresponsible owners are immune from prosecution. That is obviously another major part of the debate.

The number of dogs dangerously out of control continues to increase. Police, local authorities and animal welfare groups work together in a few areas to promote responsible dog ownership, but only on a voluntary basis. Fourteen people have been killed in dog attacks since 2005—eight children and six adults—and hundreds of children received life-changing injuries and disfigurements during the same period. Enforcement action and the number of prosecutions remain low, as do court penalties.

Some 8 million dogs are kept as pets in the UK, yet there are many stray dogs running wild on our streets. Experts suggest that during 2011-12, nearly 120,000 stray dogs were found, of which 7% were destroyed. Having 120,000 dogs running wild hardly demonstrates responsible ownership. Despite our dog-loving culture, many people seem to be afraid of loose dogs, which is understandable. A pack of dogs running towards someone is a frightening experience, and I am sure it has happened to most people in this room. Whether or not the dogs appear vicious, people tend not to enjoy such an experience. Many of those animals are quite domesticated; they are not wild dogs or banned breeds, but they are set loose to God and good nature by their irresponsible owners or get loose by other means.

This year, a survey on stray dogs conducted by Dogs Trust reported a 24% rise in the number of individuals convicted of cruelty and neglect to dogs, which is shameful. There was a 22% rise in convictions related to dogs and a 21% rise in disqualifications from keeping animals. Again, those are hardly the signs of a dog-loving nation. The figures are frankly unacceptable in any civilised society. Due to many problems and many more false dawns, progress on responsible dog ownership and regulation has been slow.

The announcements made earlier this month by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs set out the Government’s proposals concerning dogs. They include measures on the compulsory microchipping of dogs, the seizure of dogs and the extension of the law to cover private property. On 15 February 2013, the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs published a report following its inquiry into dog control and welfare. As I mentioned, the report—“Dog Control and Welfare”, HC 575—made a series of recommendations and was critical of the Government’s approach. Concerns are rife about the poor condition of many dogs, including those bred for sale and those connected to pedigree breeding.

As I mentioned, incidences of out-of-control dogs have been increasing in the UK. Statistics show that 210,000 people are attacked by dogs in England annually, including 6,000 postal workers. It is not just postal workers but visitors to people’s properties: people going in through the back door or the back gate, doctors, nurses, postal workers and other communication workers. All those people are suffering greatly because of the current legislation on public and private land.

Since 2005, 14 people have been killed by dogs, the majority in their own homes. Many organisations are working assiduously on responsible dog ownership, and there are some shining examples, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, Dogs Trust, the Communication Workers Union, Blue Cross, the Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, the Retired Greyhound Trust and many others. They deserve credit, as I am sure we will agree throughout this debate. Without their assistance, I am not sure where we would be on welfare and responsible dog ownership.

The RSPCA believes that prevention is better than cure. It says that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs had a golden opportunity finally to tackle the big issues, but instead merely tinkered with existing legislation rather than making the comprehensive reform called for by dog law enforcers. The RSPCA believes that preventive measures, such as dog control notices, are required, as well as the introduction of dog registration to improve ownership, and education on dog welfare and safety. Such measures could prevent suffering to animals as well as protecting public safety where there are concerns that owners are failing to control their dogs or do not know how to do so effectively.

The CWU has campaigned hard and is continuing to do so, because its members are experiencing increasing problems with dogs and the irresponsible actions of their owners. The CWU launched its “Bite Back” campaign in 2008 following two horrific attacks on postal workers in Sheffield and Cambridge, when both victims were nearly killed. Some 23,000 postal workers have been attacked in the last five years. The “Bite Back” campaign has achieved dangerous dog law changes in Scotland and Northern Ireland and secured the introduction of the Control Of Dogs (Wales) Bill by the Welsh Assembly, with full cross-party support.

The CWU is seeking similar positive changes here in England. There is a worry that for whatever reason, England has been left behind in those positive national changes. The public have a picture in the back of their mind of a postie being chased around the garden, which they find quite humorous—it has been the focal point of many jokes and cartoons—but it is not really funny when we scrape the surface. Let us look at the frightening statistics involving ordinary people. Some 23,000 postmen were attacked by dogs in the last five years, or 5,000 every year. An average of 12 are attacked every day, and as I just explained, two were nearly killed in 2007-08. Dog attacks peaked at 6,500 in 2008. Action is required now to introduce legislation not only to promote responsible dog ownership but to enforce it legally.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. He is giving comprehensive statistics on ownership and problems with dogs, but so far he has not mentioned irresponsible dog breeding, which lies at the heart of the issue. As long as there are irresponsible dog breeders, we will always have irresponsible dog owners and dogs that get out of control.

[Ian Lavery]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I have mentioned dog breeding, but only slightly, and I agree fully with those sentiments. There are so many issues involved in responsible dog ownership. That is a main issue, and I hope to cover the rest later in my contribution.

The first of the three main issues arising from the written ministerial statement was a requirement that dogs be microchipped with the owner’s details. The second was a change in the criminal law, in section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, to extend the offence of a dog being dangerously out of control to all places, including private property. The third was to allow owners of dogs seized as suspected dangerous dogs or prohibited types to retain possession of their dogs until the outcome of court proceedings.

The Secretary of State said that microchipping makes a clear link between a dog and its owner. More than 100,000 dogs stray, are lost or are stolen each year, and many must be kept in kennels before being re-homed. A microchip allows them to be reunited quickly with their owners, reducing stress for dog and owner alike. It will also lead to substantial savings for local authorities and welfare charities, which spend some £57 million a year on kennelling costs, and will mean that fewer dogs are destroyed. Up to 6,000 are put down each year because their owners cannot be found.

The Government announced the introduction of regulations to require the microchipping of all dogs in England from 6 April 2016. After that date, owners will need to have their dog microchipped and registered on one of the authorised commercial databases available, and they will have to register the details of any new owner before they sell or give away a dog. Owners will be required to keep their contact details up to date on the microchip databases.

--- Later in debate ---

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) on obtaining this important debate. I did not intend to make a contribution, but I want to make a few points.

Just before Christmas, I attended a conference with about 150 local authority dog wardens. It was addressed by the shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh). The unanimous view there was that if the problem of dangerous dogs is to be addressed, identification of dogs is particularly important. Everyone agreed that microchipping is a good thing, but other issues were raised, including the cost of microchipping. More than 2 million dogs in this country are microchipped, but the less responsible owners are least likely to microchip their dogs, and those with limited resources might find the expense of microchipping too burdensome, and that problem should be addressed. The main question at the conference was about the database. Who will hold and maintain it, who will pay the cost of running it, and who will have access to it? I suspect that local authorities, the police and the RSPCA will have access, but will it be open to a wider range of organisations?

The hon. Member for Wansbeck and other hon. Members have referred to the sort of damage that dangerous dogs do to human beings. That may be traumatic at the least and sometimes, unfortunately, fatal. Some young children and babies have, sadly, been killed by dangerous dogs. I want to pay a little attention to livestock worrying. I come from a livestock rearing area and am a livestock farmer. During the last two years, the person who runs my farm experienced baby lambs aged between one day and a week being killed, perhaps 20 at a time. They knew who owned the dog, but the owner maintained that they did not know the dog was guilty of the crime. When considering dangerous dogs, we also must take account of livestock worrying.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. My constituency casework includes other household pets, particularly puppies, being killed by unidentifiable dogs whose owners have just walked away.

[Roger Williams]

The hon. Lady makes the point that not just commercial livestock are affected, but pets. However, I must emphasise that the problem with livestock worrying is not just the financial loss, but the terrible task of having to clear up dead bodies that have been pulled apart by dogs that are out of control.

From my side of the coalition, I would only say that if the practical difficulties of putting the plans in place can be overcome, and if setting up and maintaining a database with access for responsible organisations can be achieved, there is no reason why the legislation should not be introduced so that it is on the statute book before the end of this Parliament instead of leaving it until the next Parliament.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr David Heath)]

It is of course a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) on initiating the debate. It has been a good debate in general, because we are all united over the broad principles of what we are trying to do.

Despite points of difference on occasion being expressed, there has been a very warm welcome to what the Government announced in the written ministerial statement and a firm view that we are going in the right direction. We are united, because we all want to encourage responsible dog ownership and to help to tackle irresponsible owners. The question therefore is, what are the right measures to achieve those objectives and how quickly can we introduce them?

We are absolutely clear that we will bear down on irresponsible owners who allow their dogs to attack people, and we will do specific things to address the appalling number of stray and abandoned dogs on our streets. I say that because the Government consider owning a dog to be a serious undertaking that should not be undertaken lightly. We are working closely with the animal welfare charities to encourage people to take more responsibility for their own actions and those of their pets. I speak for the Government, but I know that I speak for the House when I say that we care about dogs, about improving dog welfare and about protecting public safety.

The measures that we have announced—the compulsory microchipping of all dogs in England by 6 April 2016, an extension to the law on dangerous dogs to give the police powers to tackle attacks on private property and the ability for prohibited dogs that do not cause a threat to be returned to their owners under strict conditions—are all aspects of achieving the balance between protecting the public and the welfare of the animals people own. We have worked closely with the Home Office to ensure that there are measures to tackle antisocial behaviour that involves dogs—I shall return to that point. I hope that that will deal with the problems with dog control orders, because we can achieve the same objective through different routes in our criminal law system. We have a route available to deal with the issues.

I reject one aspect of the criticism: I want to make it absolutely clear that the measures are far-reaching. The Chair of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), described them as “woefully inadequate”—they are simply not. They go to the root of the main problems associated with dogs and dog ownership. We are trying to tackle two issues here: to improve the welfare of dogs generally and to address concerns about public safety from dog attacks. The two issues need different but complementary solutions.

I shall deal with microchipping first, because the hon. Member for Wansbeck referred to it extensively. Compulsory microchipping is, in the first instance, a dog welfare measure. It will promote responsible dog ownership, by improving the traceability of owners, and help local authorities and charities to reunite more of the 100,000 dogs that stray or are stolen each year. Many such dogs have to be kept in kennels before being returned to their owners or re-homed. Having dogs stuck in kennels for any length of time is potentially detrimental to their welfare and costs animal welfare charities and local authorities nearly £60 million a year.

Microchipping will allow dogs to be reunited with their owners more quickly, and that is good for the dog and good for the owner. Indeed, 6,000 dogs have to be put down each year because their owners cannot be found. Quite frankly, that is a disgrace. Moreover, microchipping dogs will help to ease the burden on our charities and local authorities and allow more precious resource for other dog control and welfare work and for educating owners.

The Government’s proposal on microchipping has been widely welcomed by the police, local authorities, veterinary bodies and animal welfare charities. We have listened to their comments, and therefore, as was mentioned earlier, the initial proposal was different from what is now suggested. Following the consultation, we adapted our proposals in the light of the comments. From 6 April 2016, owners in England will need to have their dogs microchipped and registered on one of the commercial databases available. They will have to register the details of any new owner when they sell or give the dog away. Owners will be required to keep their contact details up to date on the microchip databases. My Department is working with database providers and microchip suppliers to ensure minimum standards of service for commercial databases and standards of microchips and that updated implantation guidance and training is available, as well as a one-stop 24-hour inquiry point for microchipped lost and found dogs.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) referred to the cost of microchipping. I thank the Dogs Trust in particular for its very generous support, whereby a free microchip will be available for all unchipped dogs throughout England. Other animal welfare charities are offering free microchipping at their centres, including Battersea Dogs and Cats Home and Blue Cross, and the Kennel Club is providing free scanners for local authorities, which is also very welcome. I do not think someone not being able to afford the cost will be an excuse.

The hon. Member for Wansbeck asked what age of dog will be microchipped; veterinary advice is that eight weeks is appropriate. He also asked whether there were exemptions; the answer is, no, we do not plan to have exemptions, because as soon as we create exemptions, we create loopholes, and we do not want loopholes in the system. Let me be clear that enforcement is not about harassing responsible owners, but an offence will be committed if someone owns a dog that is not microchipped and the offender will be subject to prosecution.

[Roger Williams]

The Minister has covered the cost of microchipping, but what about the cost, about which people are concerned, of maintaining the databases?

[Mr Heath]

The databases are already in place. They are available; they are being used and will continue. We do not propose to establish new databases. They will be available to the police and local authorities to access. There will be a single portal, which we are working on, so that no one has to worry about whether they use one database or another. Those databases will be used.

Horsemeat

Roger Williams Excerpts

Thursday 14th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

We regularly speak to our colleagues in the devolved Administrations. Indeed, I spoke only yesterday to my ministerial counterpart in Wales. We regularly exchange information on these matters and come to common views wherever possible.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Food safety and quality is an international matter and we need collaboration across borders. When criminal activity is involved, Europol has a particularly important role to play. Will the Minister ensure that we identify where this horsemeat came from in order to verify, for instance, that it was not slaughtered on unlicensed premises?

[Mr Heath]

That is why we need a European-wide criminal investigation and why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is at The Hague today talking to Europol. Europol can act only if requested to do so by member states, and the UK has made such a request, in company with Mr Le Foll, the French Minister. That is why it is proceeding and I think that that will add a lot of co-ordination to what otherwise might be a fragmented police investigation.