Prisons and Courts Bill

Richard Arkless Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 20th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Richard Arkless (Dumfries and Galloway) (SNP)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests: I am a non-practising solicitor, qualified in England and Wales, and in Scotland. I start by paying tribute to the people on the frontline of what some describe as a prison crisis—that is perhaps not the terminology that I would use in front of the Lord Chancellor. Our frontline prison officers have had to deal with the brunt of much of the under-resourcing, the psychoactive substances, and the violence in prisons. Everyone on both sides of the House should make it abundantly clear that we owe them a sincere debt of gratitude. As we go through the recruitment and upscaling processes, I hope that they will start to feel more wanted in their jobs, which will be crucial in allowing them to help us to develop a more rehabilitative society.

I will touch on a few of the contributions made in this excellent debate before I refer to one or two aspects of the Bill that are of interest to SNP Members. The Back-Bench contributions were kicked off admirably by the Chair of the Justice Committee, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), a gentleman I have grown very fond of in my less than two years in this House. When a Tory Chair of the Justice Committee is telling a Tory Front-Bench team that the situation is grim, we should all listen, but the hon. Gentleman’s tone was constructive, as always. He described some of the more progressive measures in the White Paper and the Bill as radical Tory proposals. I thought that they were moving in the other direction—towards progression—but nevertheless I completely take his point.

The hon. Gentleman also succinctly hit on a real political problem in prison reform: the climate of public opinion. There is a notion that it is unpopular to say—or that this implies that we are somehow soft on crime—that we are motivated to ensure that prisoners receive funding, rehabilitation and life advice when they come out so that they do not do the things that got them inside in the first place. If the Lord Chancellor is willing to take up that battle, she will get great praise from me. That is not an easy political decision to make, and I wish her all the best in fighting that political climate. If she can change it, I will be a fan.

My friend, in the sincerest form of the word, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) outlined with his usual great clarity the statistics that corroborate the Chair of the Justice Committee’s assertion that the position is grim. He struck an excellent tone and was very constructive, which does not belie at all his two years as a prisons Minister. He made the point, as did the hon. Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon), that just because we think that elements of the Bill could be improved, that does not necessarily mean that we do not agree with its general thrust. I can say on behalf of my party that we welcome, for the most part, the measures in the Bill.

The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), my fellow member of the Justice Committee, tackled one of the most difficult issues head on. She, unlike many, was willing to address the subject of prisoner numbers. Although we can beef up recruitment and beef up the number of prison officers, I agree that we should perhaps consider ways of not filling our prisons with people who are there needlessly. She spoke with great passion about the situation of women and those with mental illness, and I agree that there are so many people in prisons who should not be there and for whom it is not the right place to be rehabilitated. She is brave, and should be commended, for striking that tone.

The right hon. and learned Member for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier), who is no longer in his place, made an excellent economic and moral case for our prisons being rehabilitative institutions. He said that the principles contained in the Bill are laudable, but he said that there is a difference between those principles and action to drive them through the operation of the prison estate. We will all have to face that challenge.

The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) is just retaking her place. If any Member did not hear her speech, I suggest that they look it up with haste. Her speech was incredible. She spoke of 69% of prisoners at Parc prison in Bridgend having regular family contact, with a 10% reoffending rate, as well as many other statistics. I propose to the Lord Chancellor that we scrap this Bill and devolve prison estate management in its entirety across these islands to the offices of the hon. Member for Bridgend. If we can do across the United Kingdom what Parc is doing, we will have made enormous progress in making our prison estate fit for purpose.

Perhaps the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) should visit Parc prison, which would be an incredibly enlightening experience. I would pay serious money to be a fly on the wall during that visit. He made a typically robust yet unusually brief contribution and, to be fair, parts of his speech were more balanced than perhaps his reputation would dictate. When he talks about those who assault prison officers being denied early release, it is very difficult to disagree with him. He does not say much with which I agree, but it is difficult to disagree with him on that. Our prison officers face the brunt of the consequences of austerity, as I would describe it, and should they face the brunt of this, too? They deserve more protection, and his proposal would certainly have my ear if it could provide that protection.

Finally, like my colleague and friend from the Justice Committee, the hon. Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis), I pay tribute to the Minister for Courts and Justice for the interesting and comprehensive one-hour pilot of the digital scheme before the Committee last week. Like the hon. Lady, I was able to apply for divorce and issue an astronomical money claim to my wife at the flick of a button—I am sure everyone, not least my wife, will be delighted to learn that it was fictitious. One thing that occurred to me—[Interruption.] Perhaps the Minister will give me a wee bit of attention so that I can describe it to him.

There seems to be an opportunity relating to costs within the digital construction of case management files online—the legal profession will not thank me for saying that. One of the huge criticisms of the legal profession is that its costs can be inflated, but if we have a digital system in which we can see, step by step, what has happened in each and every case, it might act as a skeleton on which to base standard assessments for costs. The legal profession will not be delighted that I say that, but it strikes me as sensible to have that framework in place. If reduced costs are a consequence of digitising the courts system, I will be very pleased.

Part 1 of the Bill establishes a statutory purpose for prisons, with principles that should guide our administration of the prison estate, but the real issue in prisons, and it is not addressed in the Bill for understandable reasons, is the lack of resource and lack of staff. The Government are rightly embarking on a campaign to recruit 2,500 net new officers to the prison estate. I have heard various figures for what the gross figure would have to be to get to that net figure. It is somewhere between 4,000, as I think the Government have said, and closer to 8,000, as I have heard the hon. Member for Leeds East say on TV. I would like to know how we are getting on with that recruitment drive. I was intrigued yet worried to hear a statement from the Lord Chancellor in her opening speech, although I am sure it was erroneous, about the progress being made in the 10 prisons we have identified for additional staffing resource. Contrary to that position, we received a letter from the prisons Minister outlining that as at 31 December, six months into the recruitment drive, four of those prisons had lower staff numbers than they had six months before—High Down, Rochester, Hewell, and Wandsworth. In defence of Ministers, let me say that that position may well have been superseded in the 10 weeks that followed, but if that is the case I would be grateful for some clarity on it. I, as much as anybody, want these resources to be beefed up so that we can do the job properly.

One prison where things were static at the end of last year was Wandsworth, which I was lucky enough to visit with the Justice Committee slightly before this recruitment drive started. We did not need to spend long there before we became acutely aware of what the problems were. We had meetings with representatives of the inmates and of the officers, and when 15 convicted criminals are telling us, “We need more prison officers”, that is worth listening to. Clearly many people would think it would not be in these prisoners’ interests to have more prison officers, but these prisoners were being locked in their cell for 23 out of 24 hours and not getting visits. Their natural frustration at that was building up to cause many of the problems we have seen over the past few months.

I asked a question in the House a few weeks ago about the existing staff, because although it is clearly sensible to recruit more staff, we must consider what happens to the existing staff. Part of the estate has had a pay rise, but I ask the Lord Chancellor and the Ministers to consider what that does to the morale of the rest of the estate. The current discontent is not confined to certain prisons—it goes across the board entirely—so we must be very careful when we give incentives to one part of the prison officer population but not to others, as there may be a danger of exacerbating the problem. I say that all of them deserve a pay rise and all of them deserve their roles to be professionalised. It would be great to be updated on progress on that.

One point about prison numbers that I have not heard mentioned today but which is worth mentioning, because it has been raised by the Prison Governors Association, is that prisons have 500 fewer governors than they did seven years ago, as well as 7,000 fewer staff. Parts of the Bill rightly place more responsibility on governors. We have heard lots about the recruitment drive for officers and staff, but nothing about the recruitment drive for governors. Is there a drive to secure more governors, given the extra responsibility that this Bill will rightly bestow upon them?

The Bill extends to Scotland in the sense that it will create a framework for the reserved tribunals remaining in Scotland, and for the most part that means the immigration detention centres and tribunals we have in Scotland. In that context, we welcome these proposals, but Scotland is a smaller jurisdiction and we do not have the same claims management culture that seems to prevail in England and Wales. We have not had the same problem in our prisons that England and Wales has had, but it is not in our interests for the situation there to continue to be exacerbated, and we wish the ministerial team all the best in dealing with it.

In Scotland, Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons for Scotland is responsible for the monitoring of Scotland’s 15 prisons, and during 2016 the inspection found that Scotland fulfils its responsibilities to a high degree. The Scottish Prison Service has a bold and ambitious vision to unlock the potential of everyone in prison and transform their lives. Its stated intention is:

“Providing services that help to transform the lives of people in our care so they can fulfil their potential and become responsible citizens.”

Given the contributions I have heard today, I believe most people will agree with that. I have also had the privilege of visiting Dumfries prison in my constituency, and I cannot emphasise enough the difference between what I saw at Wandsworth and what I saw at Dumfries. Dumfries prison does not have the category of dangerous prisoners or the population that Wandsworth prison has, but it is sufficiently resourced and all the staff there are completely motivated to transform the lives of the prisoners. I can only describe the prison officers at Wandsworth as ashen-faced. It was as if they had lost hope. The Justice Committee was there with them, but they did not see it as an avenue for change. They felt they were in a hopeless situation. I know, though, that Ministers acknowledge that.

The Scottish National party does not agree with the principle of private prisons, which we think are for profit and not for public safety. The Justice Committee has heard evidence from the governors of private and public prisons, and I have been struck by the differences. The governors of private prisons are bound by contracts and are not motivated in the slightest to come before the Committee and explain that they are having problems.

[Andrew Selous]

I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is aware, but the prison he has just praised to the rooftops is privately run by G4S.

[Richard Arkless]

I was not aware of that, but it seems like my friend the hon. Member for Bridgend and her constituency team are running that prison, not G4S. I doubt whether such enlightened and progressive policies would have come from the G4S boardroom; they are much more likely to have come from the hon. Lady. I do not seek to be contentious, though, and if that is the case, I stand to be corrected. I have suggested that the Justice Committee examine the effectiveness of private prisons vis-à-vis the public sector, because it is a legitimate question. If the hon. Gentleman is correct and I am mistaken in my view, such an inquiry will bring out the details. I look forward to the point at which we can have a reasonable, constructive, politics-free discussion.

[Michael Tomlinson]

As the hon. Gentleman has heard from the former Justice Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous), that it is indeed a private prison—the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) may well confirm it in her own words—will he reconsider his party’s position?

[Richard Arkless]

It is not for me to reconsider my party’s position; I am merely a foot soldier of my party’s movement. However, I will say that we will be led by the evidence. If the evidence from any future inquiry into public and private prisons gives me a different impression, I will of course be led by the evidence, not the politics, which the hon. Gentleman is clearly being led by.

[Mrs Moon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, whom I consider my friend, for giving way. I suggest that the Justice Committee does visit Parc prison, because the leadership from the director there is essential. These things work only with leadership, quality staff, a whole organisational approach and a commitment to change. I am sure the Chair of the Select Committee would be delighted at what he finds there. I must admit that my staff and I can take no responsibility for the wonderful work there; we can only support it.

[Richard Arkless]

I reciprocate the hon. Lady’s views on our friendship, for various reasons. I would of course be delighted if the Chair of the Select Committee agreed to visit Parc prison, and I would be even more delighted if the hon. Member for Shipley was with us so that I could take photographs of his ever-changing complexion as he saw the progressive benefits.

[Philip Davies]

I have visited lots of prisons, and the hon. Gentleman might be surprised to hear that one of my favourite visits was to Grendon prison in the Speaker’s constituency. It is a therapeutic prison, and I was most impressed on my visit there. One of the things I learned was that all the things about being in prison that we would find terrible, most prisoners find easy, and most things that we would find easy, most prisoners find difficult. That taught me—I hope others will take this on board—that we should look at prisons through the eyes of the prisoners, not from our particular perspectives on what might work and does not work in a prison.

[Richard Arkless]

When I hear interventions of that nature, I sometimes feel that the hon. Gentleman has cultivated an unfair reputation. As I said when I talked about his speech, he made some pragmatic points, and if there are elements of enlightenment about his thought process, I will of course welcome that, as we do on these Benches.

I am conscious that we want to hear from the Opposition spokesman and from the Minister, but I have one or two final points to make. The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston touched on prisoner numbers. Scotland is not immune to having an inordinately high prison population. We do not hide from that fact, but we are committed to challenging the basis on which it arises and to examining the effectiveness of short sentences. We have had a presumption against short sentences and we are consulting on that further. We will be led by the evidence.

I was delighted to hear the Chairman of the Justice Committee, almost at the close of his remarks, very lightly touch on short sentences. Perhaps he and I can work in Committee on that matter, because the cycle of violence and reoffending is not assisted in any way, shape or form by young people going in and out prison for one, two or three months at a time. It does not achieve anything. Effective community payback orders, where those young people are in touch with the community, face the consequences of what has happened and deal with the other aspects of their behaviour would be a much more efficient process.

I am very conscious of the time. I will not touch on the other two or three parts of the Bill, because I am very keen to hear the Front-Bench speakers sum up the debate. I wish the Ministers and the Lord Chancellor well. If it is her ambition to be known as a great prison reformer, then this is a decent start. If she is determined to tackle the public perception myth, then I wish her all the very best in that endeavour.

Prisons and Courts Bill (Third sitting)

Richard Arkless Excerpts

Committee Debate: 3rd Sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 29th March 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Richard Arkless (Dumfries and Galloway) (SNP)]

Setting a benchmark in relation to prison cell overcrowding is an admirable objective, but will the hon. Lady be so kind as to delve into the policy aspects that would make that benchmark obtainable? We would need to create more prisons, let people out or have some kind of assumption against short sentences, which we think is a good idea.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

How many people we send to prison is clearly an issue. Many argue that there has been sentence inflation in the last number of years. There are two approaches. The Secretary of State could say that she does not want to look at prison sentencing reform in the sense of either reducing prison numbers or sentence inflation. In that case, we need to build a lot of prisons and recruit a lot of people to man them. The other option is to look again at sentences and the question of whether people who are in custody should be. As a senior judge recently said, community service orders, which could be stringent, could be made more widely available. Presumably that would require the Sentencing Council to revisit sentencing issues, which of course is one of the political issues.

It would be good if the Government thought about sentence inflation. We know from the last number of years that more offences now have longer custodial sentences than 20-odd years ago when I started work. As a result, there are more people in prison. If we want to have a policy of incarcerating people, we must ensure that there are enough prison spaces and enough people there to look after them—and to deal with the rehabilitation side, because we spend £16 billion a year on reoffending. Those issues need to be looked at, and there is nothing in the Bill to address them.

I apologise to colleagues for using statistics, because sometimes people can be blinded by them, but I use them to demonstrate a point. The fact is that there has been a large rise in assaults on prison officers and inmates since 2012. There has also been a large rise in self-harm and many incidents of people committing suicide. It is not surprising that every few weeks it seems a prison riot happens in some part of the country. I know from speaking to prison officers, the Prison Governors Association and other people about how they feel really depressed when they go to work in the morning, because they do not know what challenge there might be; who might assault them or what might happen. That must be addressed.

We are asking for the principles to be crystallised in statute. When that is done in statute, rather than put somewhere in prison policies or rules, or some manual tucked away that says, “This is the right way of doing things”, people have to be aware of it. By having that in the Bill, the measures that need to be achieved are there for everyone to look at.

Prisons and Courts Bill (Fourth sitting)

Richard Arkless Excerpts

Committee Debate: 4th Sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 29th March 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 4

The Prisons and Probation Ombudsman

[Richard Arkless (Dumfries and Galloway) (SNP)]

I beg to move amendment 30, in clause 4, page 9, line 6, at end insert—

“(d) Investigating cases where a person is detained in immigration detention facilities for longer than 28 days.”.

This amendment includes as a function of the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman to investigate where a person has been held in immigration detention for more than 28 days.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 8, in clause 4, page 9, line 14, at end insert—

“(f) investigating—

(i) attempted suicides,

(ii) the number and nature of assaults on staff or prisoners, and

(iii) the adequacy of staffing levels to prevent such behaviour;

(g) investigating the content and effectiveness of rehabilitation programmes and liaison arrangements with the probation and other relevant agencies to ensure that such rehabilitation continues after a prisoner’s release from custody.”.

This amendment expands the remit of the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman in relation to the investigation of attempted suicides, assaults in prison and staffing levels as well as powers relating to the investigation of rehabilitation programmes and liaison arrangements.

Amendment 31, in clause 11, page 12, line 37, at end insert—

“(1A) The Secretary of State must request the Ombudsman carry out an investigation relating to detention of any person for over 28 days in immigration detention facilities including, but not restricted to, the effect on the individuals detained.”.

This amendment ensures the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman investigates each case where a person has been held in immigration detention for more than 28 days.

[Richard Arkless]

I am sure it is not lost on hon. Members that it is almost exactly the hour that those awful events happened in Westminster last Wednesday. There are various memorials going on around us. I am sure all colleagues would back me in saying that we would much rather be at those memorials than here, but business goes on, life goes on, laws continue to be made and we have to continue to do our job.

The Bill applies only in part to Scotland; specifically, it applies primarily to immigration detention and its processes. Amendments 30 and 31 would ensure independent oversight of detention periods in immigration cases, and that detention happens with due regard to Home Office rules and the facts of the individual case. Amendment 30 would add to the ombudsman’s powers the function of investigating where a person is held in detention for more than 28 days. Amendment 31 would compel the ombudsman to investigate such cases where detention exceeds 28 days.

The Government know this debate well. During the passage of the Immigration Act 2016, an amendment tabled by honourable colleagues went further than the amendment I have moved today. It would have limited detention for immigration cases outright to 28 days. The Government were defeated in the Lords and the amendment attracted cross-party support in the House of Commons, but was ultimately unsuccessful. I hope that closer consideration will be given to this amendment than was given to the last.

The all-party groups on refugees and on migration have concluded very clearly that there should be a 28-day limit. People held in immigration detention have committed no crime, yet their detention is open-ended, without limit, and could last for years. In no other sphere of our jurisdiction would we allow that to happen. It simply would not happen in the rest of the prison estate—no one would be held for more than 28 days without being placed before a judge—but it happens in our immigration system. The UK is the only EU country not to have a time limit on immigration detention. The current position is inhumane, ineffective and hugely expensive. Personally, I would say that indefinite detention without trial is an affront to the rule of law, which I hold so very dear, having studied law on both sides of our border.

Let us consider some statistics. Some 7% of detained immigrants were detained for longer than six months. Only 23% of those detained leaving Dungavel in Scotland were deported, so by inference 77% were deemed safe. In that circumstance, is it proportionate to not have a 28-day limit? It is in the interests of both sides of the Committee that following detention or following anybody coming to this country to settle and make their life, integration is of paramount importance. Having this draconian measure and not having safeguards to limit the amount of time that immigrants may be detained will not get them off on the best foot in terms of integrating them into our society. That is in no one’s interests. I respectfully suggest that the Government act and impose a limit to the time that people can be detained in immigration centres.

[Yasmin Qureshi]

The Committee will be relieved to hear that I am not going to comment on amendments 30 and 31, as the hon. Gentleman has made an eloquent case for them, but I promised the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd that I would speak to amendment 8 on her behalf.

Amendment 8 would give the ombudsman the functions of

“investigating…attempted suicides…the number and nature of assaults on staff or prisoners …the adequacy of staffing levels to prevent such behaviour…investigating the content and effectiveness of rehabilitation programmes and liaison arrangements with the probation and other relevant agencies to ensure that such rehabilitation continues after a prisoner’s release from custody.”

Those are perfectly proper things for the ombudsman to look at, so we ask the Government to consider accepting the amendment. We also support amendments 30 and 31.

--- Later in debate ---

I hope Members agree that establishing the ombudsman in legislation is a hugely positive step that is long overdue. The ombudsman’s remit is well established. The Bill gives the ombudsman a clear framework to conduct investigations. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will therefore withdraw the amendment.

[Richard Arkless]

I thank the Minister for those words. I will pick up on a couple of points and then make clear whether we will press the amendment to a vote. He mentioned that the amendments would compel the ombudsman to investigate 35% of more than 28,000 cases. My hope is that if there were a limit, there would not be as many cases to investigate, so I do not think he was making a fair point.

I appreciate what the Minister said about automatic referrals to the first-tier tribunal, but that only triggers after four months. Frankly, holding someone in detention for four months without placing them in front of a judge is just as much of an affront to the rule of law as it would be open-ended. I cannot agree that automatic referrals are a suitable mitigating measure, but we will not press the amendment to a vote this afternoon. We anticipate that it commands cross-party support, and we think there is a good chance we can make the Government see sense. We reserve the right to bring back the amendment in full force at a later stage of the Bill’s passage. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 1

The Prisons and Probation Ombudsman

[Yasmin Qureshi]

I beg to move amendment 24,  page 68, line 5, in schedule 1, at end insert

“, with the consent of the Justice Committee of the House of Commons.”

This amendment requires the Prisons and Probation Ombudsman to be appointed with the consent of the Justice Select Committee.

Establishing the ombudsman’s independence, similar to that of the chief inspector of prisons, is a priority for a range of stakeholders. The amendment would ensure that independence.