Foreign Interference

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2025 Commons Chamber

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

These are dangerous times for democracies in Europe and across the world. I will not be alone in having heard one particular word used increasingly to describe our social and political state as a country over the last 10 years: “divided.” From Brexit to immigration, from the conflict in Gaza to LGBT+ rights, it feels as though we as a country are more divided than ever.

In a sense, Madam Deputy Speaker, division is a feature of democracy—so much so that when we vote in this, the mother of Parliaments, you quite literally shout “Division!”, and we divide off into our respective voting Lobbies. However, healthy division must be underpinned by a willingness to listen to other views, respect them even when we disagree passionately with them and, yes, sometimes accept that we are wrong. That is what I fear we have lost in this country—the ability to engage in the debate—and I fear that social media has much to do with that.

I see a democracy under pressure, not from internal division but from external actors looking to destabilise our way of life and our beliefs. It will not be a surprise to hon. Members or to our constituents that social media is used by foreign actors, particularly Russia, Iran and China, to actively undermine our democratic institutions and exploit the natural disagreements present in democracy to sow the seeds of division. As anyone who has been on Twitter recently will know, it is also increasingly being manipulated by its owner to promote a very specific—and, in my view, very dangerous—narrative.

Today, I want to focus my remarks on Russia and the impact of its state-affiliated and state-aligned online activities on our democracy. Earlier this week, the Foreign Secretary strongly reaffirmed our commitment to UK support for Ukraine against Russian aggression in her speech to commemorate the signing of the Locarno treaties here in London. Ukraine is fighting to defend western democracy against Russia’s illegal invasion, and is paying a high price to do so. As the Foreign Secretary recognised in her speech, though, while Russia’s war may be physically constrained, its offensive is playing out on multiple frontiers, including our very own social media feeds.

Evidence given to the Foreign Affairs Committee identified Russian operations across every single conceivable channel and platform, including Minecraft. These operations include bot farms that produce fake accounts at a rate far faster than they can be banned, and use them to create significant noise around a particular issue, drowning out legitimate discussion and undermining trust in UK institutions.

If I had stood here and said even a few years ago that Russia had infiltrated my local Facebook groups to spread disinformation, as well as the local Facebook groups of many Members across this House, that would have been received with some scepticism. Now, if I may say so, we should be more sceptical of the fool who believes that Russia is not doing that. The corrosive effect that it has on community cohesion is immense, and it is happening every day on a hyper-local level. Russian troll factories are spewing out lies not to push any single political ideology, but simply to sow chaos and undermine faith in institutions. I fully welcome the Government’s decision to sanction a further seven entities and individuals for their role in destabilising Ukraine, but I also ask the Government to go further and consider what action can be taken within our own borders to curb this economy of disinformation.

I welcome the provision in the Online Safety Act 2003 to limit foreign interference as a priority offence, meaning that services must take proactive steps to identify and minimise users’ exposure to state-sponsored or state-linked disinformation aimed at interfering with the UK, but I question whether any social media company is living up to its obligations under the Act. I have asked to meet Meta to discuss the issue, but I am disappointed to tell the House that I have not yet been given that opportunity. I assume that all social media companies are aware of the threat of foreign interference and know that it is happening on their platforms, but I have not seen any evidence of their taking any action to stop it. If social media companies do not take action, then we must pursue them and force them to do so because our democracy is more valuable than their profits.

We cannot ignore the fact that Russian interference is clear and evident not only within the borders of our own country, but within the walls of this House and the political sphere across the great nations of this country. I am sure that I do not need to remind colleagues that the former leader of Reform in Wales is now behind bars for taking bribes to make pro-Russian statements. Reform is now refusing to conduct an investigation into pro-Russian interference in the party. That prompts a question: what are they hiding? That is, of course, a question we could have asked Reform Members today, had they shown up. Pro-Russian narratives are nothing new to Reform or its previous incarnations, the Brexit party and UKIP. In fact, during the 2024 election campaign, the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) suggested that the EU and NATO had “provoked” Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. He said that he “admired” Putin. Madam Deputy Speaker, he is a Kremlin apologist.

The fight against Russia in Ukraine is morally right, but it is also strategically right, and the Government are correct to be unwavering in their support of Ukraine—for their future and for ours. Ukraine is defending Europe’s eastern flank. Any Government who neglect that approach neglect their first duty to the security of the public, and we must be in no doubt that Reform is a threat to that and to all of us.

A further aspect highlighted by the Royal United Services Institute report is the need to support civil society and media ecosystems that are directly targeted by such operations. It is not just about technical defences, but also about improving media literacy so that everyday citizens can be better prepared to spot deepfakes, fake news and misinformation. Yesterday, the Government released their national youth strategy and, amid all the fantastic announcements about funding for more youth facilities, a plan to address workforce challenges and give more young people a voice. I want to highlight specifically the commitment to embed media literacy into the curriculum and ensure that Ofcom can fulfil its obligations under the Online Safety Act to promote media literacy. Media literacy is important not just for young people—although it is—but for everyone, especially older people who may be more vulnerable to the effects of deepfakes and misinformation.

Our democracy rests on our ability to disagree with each other, but to remain a united country. We must not allow ourselves to be siloed. We must not refuse to listen to those whose views we do not share, but who we should nevertheless respect. Losing sight of the ability to disagree agreeably drives a wedge into the unity of this United Kingdom, and leaves us more vulnerable than ever to the narrative that hostile foreign actors would so like to see spread. We are a country of diversity, and proudly so. Our greatest strength must not be allowed to be exploited to become our greatest weakness. We must all of us in this place commit to fighting Putin’s corrosive influence over our democracy, wherever it is found. That starts by recognising the extent of the challenge we face.

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[Dr Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

Before I start, Madam Deputy Speaker, let me assure you, in relation to the comments made by the previous occupant of the Chair, that I will be mentioning a Member of this House and I have given him advance notice that I will be doing so.

Our democracy is under threat. We cannot and must not fail to defend it against the bad-faith actors who seek to attack it. Today I will concentrate the bulk of my remarks on Kremlin-linked Russian interference, starting with the long-time right-hand man of the habitually absent Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), Nathan Gill, who was at the very top of Reform UK in Wales. Mr Gill is now sitting in jail serving a sentence of 10 and a half years for taking Russian bribes from Putin’s operatives to parrot Kremlin propaganda about the war on Ukraine. The leader of Reform UK, the Member for Clacton, is desperately suggesting that Mr Gill was a bad apple, as he and his organisation scramble and evade following Gill’s bribery conviction, but that simply does not wash.

Gill was not the only pro-Brexit politician in Europe spreading Kremlin talking points about Ukraine. Indeed, the Member for Clacton himself echoed Moscow’s narratives on the war in Ukraine, accusing the west of “provoking” the war. It is also worth remembering his frequent appearances on Putin’s propaganda TV channel, Russia Today, between 2010 and 2014, on which he made no criticisms of the lack of democracy in Russia or its position on Ukraine.

[Peter Swallow]

The hon. Lady is making a powerful case about Reform UK speaking on Russia’s talking points. Of course, the biggest talking point of them all is that NATO is the enemy. When her leader says that the Green party believes we should leave NATO, is that not a Russian talking point?

[Dr Chowns]

That is not the Green party’s position. The Green party’s position, which I clarified in a point of order in this Chamber just last week, supports our membership of NATO at this time of extreme threat on Europe’s borders.

It has long been known that the Kremlin seeks to interfere and undermine democratic politics in other countries, with online bots and cyber-disinformation. The need is urgent. In June 2025 the Government published a strategic defence review, which stated:

“The UK is already under daily attack, with aggressive acts—from espionage to cyber-attack and information manipulation—causing harm to society and the economy.”

Russia was called

“an immediate and pressing threat”,

including in key areas such as cyber-space and information operations. These concerns are not new. Credible evidence of Russian interference in UK elections was flagged in the Intelligence and Security Committee’s 2020 Russia report. In 2022, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office put out a press release that revealed that a Russian spy agency had targeted UK national infrastructure in a “calculated and dangerous” hacking campaign, and that Putin was sowing

“division and confusion among allies.”

The Foreign Secretary at the time was Liz Truss, who said that she would not tolerate it, yet she, and the moribund Conservative Government of which she was a part, did not open an investigation into the ISC’s Russia report on Kremlin-linked influence in the UK.

Obviously, Liz Truss should never have been anywhere near the levers of high office, but why have this Government not acted as the US did? The 2017-19 Robert Mueller special counsel investigation was a criminal investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US elections. We need something similar here. The US report concluded that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election did occur in “sweeping and systematic fashion”, and that it “violated U.S. criminal law”. In 2016 we had the Brexit vote, which has so harmed and divided our country, and it is well known that the Kremlin wants a weakened, fractured EU, so where is our version of Mueller?

The upcoming elections Bill will be critical in addressing the dodgy influence of foreign money in UK politics, not least via cryptocurrency, on which I agree with the hon. Member for Bolton West (Phil Brickell). Reform UK is the first British political party to accept donations in crypto, despite UK National Crime Agency investigators recently saying that cryptocurrency has turbocharged money laundering. The NCA also points out that the cryptocurrency backed by the Reform donor is used for the Russian war effort. Reform UK’s record £9 million crypto donation is just the latest offering from abroad. Last Sunday, The Observer reported that two thirds of the funds given to that organisation in this Parliament have come from donors with overseas interests.

That demonstrates why it is so urgent that the forthcoming elections Bill is robust in stopping dirty money. We have not yet seen the Bill, but as well as urgent controls to prevent big overseas donations, the Bill must, among other things, streamline national versus local spending limits with a per-seat cap on total spending, have a limit on major donations, give the Electoral Commission the power to prosecute and reinstate its independence. It is also crucial that we have rules requiring the submission of all online and offline advertisements to the Electoral Commission as soon as they are published, with data on who has sponsored the ad readily available to the public. As things stand, we get only partial transparency after an election has happened. That is too late.

Today’s debate is crucial. As we have heard, it has many strands: the impact of foreign interference on security, trade and our democracy. I reiterate the critical point that defending our democracy must mean the UK Government finally investigating Russian interference in our elections. Not to do so is effectively to send a message of permission, and that is intolerable. The stakes could not be higher. I urge the Minister to tell us when we will get the long-overdue Mueller-style inquiry into Kremlin-linked interference in our democracy.

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[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to the hon. and gallant Member. I would gently say that his intervention is not in keeping with the tone of what has been a good-natured and constructive debate, but he has asked the question and I can give him the assurances he seeks.

The action plan will deliver a protective security campaign to support those at risk to recognise, resist and report attempts of foreign interference, to strengthen existing legislation to mitigate the threat, and to co-ordinate action to disrupt the use of proxy actors. In line with our pledge to strengthen legislation, we are also introducing tougher rules on political donations through the elections Bill in order to protect our democracy. The Government believe that foreign money has no place in the UK’s political system, which is why the law is clear that foreign donations are not permitted. Yet as the tactics and techniques of foreign interference actors evolve, UK rules and safeguards also need to adapt.

Cross-Government work also continues at pace to counter foreign information operations. Our immediate focus is getting the Online Safety Act 2023 implemented quickly and effectively. The foreign interference offence in that Act places clear requirements on platforms to tackle illegal state-linked disinformation targeting the UK and our democratic processes. The Department for Science, Innovation and Technology is also driving a whole-of-society response to strengthening UK resilience against the threat, and the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has demonstrated relentless international leadership in imposing costs on Russian state-linked threat actors that seek to undermine our democratic elections and spread malign content through deceptive means.

[Peter Swallow]

The Minister is setting out the strong action that the Government are taking to target those threats. Does he think that social media companies are doing enough to ensure that their platforms are not being used by Russia and others to undermine democracy?

[Dan Jarvis]

That is an entirely fair challenge. Like every Member of this House, I suspect, I would like social media companies to do more. I am working closely, through the defending democracy taskforce, with colleagues across Government, including in DSIT, to ensure that that is the case.

Since October 2024, the Government have sanctioned 31 organisations and individuals responsible for delivering Russia’s information warfare. Just yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary announced a further package of sanctions against five entities and two individuals for their role in attempting to destabilise international democracies and undermine international support to Ukraine through the spread of false and divisive narratives. Efforts are also under way to improve data collection on experiences of transnational repression in the UK and to ensure that victims receive appropriate support.

Hon. Members have made a number of very useful contributions. My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Mr Bailey) brought to bear a generation of service, and spoke powerfully about a number of issues, including the importance of our support for Ukraine. The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (John Cooper) made clear his concerns about the threats from China and elsewhere. I think it fair to say, based on his contribution, that he is not a fan of the First Minister of Scotland. I will look closely at his letter. I was only sorry that today there was no quote from Sun Tzu—maybe next time.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) made a very thoughtful contribution and rightly raised his concerns about Russian attempts to undermine our democracy. Although I did not agree with the comments made by the hon. Member for Dundee Central (Chris Law), who is not in his place, about the nature of the special relationship, I agreed with what he said about Russia and Ukraine. It is absolutely vital that we maintain that cross-party agreement.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Phil Brickell) spoke incredibly well and in a very considered way, as he always does. I am grateful for his words about the publication just this week of the Government’s anti-corruption strategy. I pay tribute to Home Office officials for their work to deliver on that strategy and our commitments. He spoke powerfully and authoritatively about the impact of the Nathan Gill scandal. I am grateful for the work that my hon. Friend does in support of our national security, and I can tell him that the elections Bill will introduce tough new rules on political donations, including cryptoassets.

The hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Dr Chowns) expressed her concern about Reform and sought to clarify her party’s position on NATO membership—although I confess that I am still a bit confused about whether the Greens are in or out. The Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller), spoke about the threats from China and Russia. He raised a number of entirely reasonable and constructive points. I hope that he will understand that I simply do not have the time to address them all today, but I can assure him of the seriousness with which we take them, and of our absolute commitment to working with him and Members across the House to address them.

Finally, I warmly welcome the hon. Member for Bridlington and The Wolds (Charlie Dewhirst), in what was a very assured debut at the Dispatch Box; no doubt we will be seeing much more of him in that position. He will not be surprised to hear that I did not quite agree with his assessment of the collapse of the recent China trial, but let me say something about the point he made with regard to the embassy. As Members will know, I have to be incredibly careful about what I say, because there is a quasi-judicial process under way, but should the embassy be approved—and that is very much a decision for the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government—it will replace the seven different sites that currently comprise China’s diplomatic footprint. That is one to ponder on further, I think.

To conclude, the threat from foreign interference touches on almost every part of our national life, and this Government are steadfast in their commitment to disrupting these threats while also ensuring that those at the greatest risk are able to recognise, resist and report suspicious activity. From the comprehensive powers of the National Security Act 2023 and the protective work of the defending democracy taskforce to our focused efforts against disinformation, we are deploying a whole-of-Government approach to make the UK a harder target.

This Government’s clear commitment to upholding and restoring trust in standards and integrity in public life are not merely bureaucratic pledges; they are a vital line of defence, ensuring that the UK is not a permissive environment for foreign interference and safeguarding the sovereignty of our democratic future. On this Government’s watch, we will do whatever is required to disrupt, deter and defeat foreign interference, protect our national security and keep the public safe—nothing matters more.

G20 and Ukraine

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Tuesday 25th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My instinct is that this probably is not anything of greater significance than what was coming out yesterday. If it is, of course I will make another statement. I spoke to President Zelensky this morning and got a very clear sense of where he is at, and I intend to speak to him again this afternoon. We have the coalition of the willing, and if there is anything, I will of course update the House.

The right hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) is right to caution, and he is right in the underlying point he makes. We must hold to the principle that matters about the future of Ukraine are for Ukraine. That means that we must engage as extensively as we are doing with the President and the Ukrainians to ensure that, every step of the way, we are taking into account in a practical sense that matters for Ukraine must be for Ukraine, and that can happen only if we are talking to them in the way that we are.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, and I thank the Prime Minister for the leadership he has shown on Ukraine.

Year 6 students from St Margaret Clitherow Catholic primary school in Bracknell have written to me to express their deep concern about the ongoing crisis in Sudan, so I thank the Prime Minister for his leadership at the G20 on this conflict. What message does he have for those students who are concerned about this deep tragedy?

Ministerial Code

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Monday 24th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

It is clear that trust in politicians from all parties is too low, and that is why I really welcome the setting up of the Ethics and Integrity Commission, but just for the avoidance of doubt, and to place it on the public record, can my hon. Friend confirm his view on the ethics of elected Members of any Parliament accepting bribes from Russia to ask questions?

[Josh Simons]

I was truly shocked to read about those revelations, and I would direct that question to Reform Members. When, during the last Government, I saw Conservatives Members trashing the reputation of the Government with the public, I was running a charity and having my first child, and I was furious about it. We can always do more as politicians and as a Government to restore trust in politics, and I welcome those who support the measures that this Government have taken and the measures that we will take in the future.

China Spying Case

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Tuesday 28th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[John Slinger]

I do not have any other information on that point, but I do believe that Conservative Members ought to look in the mirror and acknowledge the decisions taken by the previous Government. Let me turn to myth No.2—

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

On that point, it is really important to clarify why such tight definitions were important in the first place. That is because the case was brought under a 1911 Act of Parliament, not a modern, up-to-date Act of Parliament. Is that not why we are in this situation?

[John Slinger]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. It is absolutely, deeply regrettable that the Conservative party, when in government, did not reform legislation sufficiently well.

Myth No. 2, another myth that the Tories will continue to spread, is that the Labour Government interfered with the delivering of evidence. The shadow Home Secretary has made the accusation that

“the government chose to deliberately submit inadequate evidence that led to two alleged spies getting off scot-free.”

This accusation simply has no real substance, as the Prime Minister has confirmed that no Labour Ministers or special advisers were involved with the provision of evidence for this case.

I shall move on to what I believe all Members across this House know to be true—truism No. 1. It is dangerous to undermine public confidence in the Government on matters of national security for party political advantage. Truism No. 2 is the more important one. It is perfectly possible to hold two thoughts in your mind at the same time: one is that China is clearly a strategic rival to the UK in certain areas, and another is that it is a vital partner, whether on the Security Council, in tackling global challenges or, of course, for trade and investment.

I will conclude, taking the advice of Madam Deputy Speaker, by saying that the Conservatives really do need to look in the mirror on this issue. This Government are acting with integrity.

[Sir Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and Tavistock) (Con)]

This has been an interesting experience, almost revisiting ancient times with the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) leading for the Government on this debate. While I have a great deal of sympathy with his position, I cannot sympathise with his rather bland, anodyne account of the events to date. What is clear, and it is an apophthegm often imbibed with one’s mother’s milk, is that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, it is almost certainly a duck.

The problem in this case is that the Government were never prepared to describe that animal as a duck. They must have known from a very early period; indeed, the first senior Treasury counsel said yesterday that, even in August, he had made the point abundantly plain to the Government that unless they reconsidered their approach and described the blasted animal as a duck, the case would go down the pan. There was nothing to prevent the Government, through their expert witness, from saying, “In our view, China was a national security threat in 2021”—nothing at all to prevent that.

[Peter Swallow]

Will the right hon. and learned Member give way?

[Tony Vaughan]

Will the right hon. and learned Member give way?

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[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

Respect for democracy is fundamental to our British values, and to who we are as a country, but the world is increasingly an unstable place, and we can no longer be complacent about the multiple threats that our democratic norms and values face. Threats are coming from China, as we see from this espionage case, but also from other malign states, such as Russia and Iran. It is the job of all of us in the House to stand up to those threats and work in the interests of national security.

When I held a roundtable with my local Hong Kong community earlier this year to discuss proposed changes to immigration, I was saddened, but unfortunately not surprised, to hear that many members of the community chose not to attend a meeting with their local MP because they were worried about the long arm of the Chinese state, and the repercussions of the Hong Kong national security law on them and their family. Transnational repression is being used by hostile states to directly prosecute those whom they see as their enemies overseas, but it also has a wider, chilling effect, leaving whole communities afraid to engage with their basic democratic rights.

Meanwhile, I grow increasingly concerned about the influence of foreign actors on misinformation and disinformation online. In recent months, I have seen how anonymous posting on local social media groups in my community can have a pervasive effect on community cohesion and our democracy. Social media companies need to step up and do more on that. I am not suggesting that every anonymous social media post is from a Russian bot, but we all know that Russia and other states are using social media against us.

There have been direct attacks on our democracy, too, such as those from these Chinese spies. Last month, Reform UK’s former leader in Wales, Nathan Gill, pled guilty to eight counts of bribery; he was bribed to make statements in favour of Russia while he was a Member of the European Parliament.

I turn to the China spy case. Part of the reason why the case did not proceed to trial and the two gentlemen could not be prosecuted was prevarication over reforming the Official Secrets Act. The Act was introduced in 1911 —it predates the first world war—and despite unanimous recognition for at least eight years that it was completely out of date and not fit for purpose, the previous Government failed to act to fix the holes in our national security laws and left our country ill defended.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

Of course, the previous Government did subsequently introduce new legislation. However, under the 1911 Act, if the Government had been prepared to state that China was a threat, the case could have gone forward and would likely have been won. The hon. Member cannot blame that Act.

[Peter Swallow]

The case collapsed because under that Act neither Government provided enough evidence. The witness statements issued by the previous Government are a matter of record, and they do not state anywhere unequivocally that China is a threat. In fact, multiple Opposition Members have said on multiple occasions that it would not be possible to describe China unilaterally as a threat. That is a matter of record.

[Chris Law]

In 2023—we are going back a couple of years—Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee report on China warned

“that China’s view of an ideal future…would be antithetical to the UK’s interests”.

In its conclusion, China was detailed 11 times as a “threat”, an “acute threat” or a “grave threat”. Why can the UK Government today, based on a report from more than two years ago, not describe China as a threat?

[Peter Swallow]

The Minister quite clearly set out the range of threats posed by China. I am clear that China poses a threat. I also think that we have to be mature enough in this Chamber to accept that the way we deal with the second-largest economy in the world has to be to recognise the threats it poses to our democracy and our national security, but also all the ways in which we have to work with it.

I stood for election on a manifesto that committed to our co-operating with China where we can, challenging them where we must, and competing with them where we need to. I genuinely think that is a mature way of dealing with a state that does not share our values, and that poses a great threat to our democracy and to the way that citizens and residents of this country operate within a democracy, but that is also the second-largest economy in the world. As the former director of MI6 said on the “Today” show on the BBC this morning,

“we need to learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.”

We need a mature acceptance of the risks that China poses, and that means recognising that we cannot just walk off the pitch and not deal with the second-largest economy in the world. It is infantile and not realistic to suggest otherwise.

If the new Act had been in place sooner, it is possible that these men could have been prosecuted successfully under it. I therefore have a simple question for Conservative Front Benchers, and they need to be clear on this point: why did they wait so long to replace a vital piece of security legislation, and make sure that we had the appropriate tools to keep this country safe? I am happy to take interventions on that point.

[Dr Evans]

Tony Blair was Prime Minister for a very long time. Did he amend the legislation?

[Peter Swallow]

As has already been set out, the threat from China has evolved over time. I would have loved it if the previous Labour Government had amended the Act, but it was the Conservative party that held a consultation, and then sat on the results for eight years and did nothing.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I call Mark Pritchard.

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[Dr Evans]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely spot on. It is because of these unprecedented facts that I would expect the Prime Minister to come forward and provide answers, not send a Minister in his place.

[Peter Swallow]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr Evans]

I will not, because I have taken two interventions already. My worry is about what the public perceive, because it is a statement of fact that since the Chancellor went to China, decisions have been made about the Chagos islands, for example, or British Steel and £1 billion—what is going on there? A spy case has now been dropped, and there is the possibility of a super-embassy and even ID cards. My constituents are coming to me seeing a running theme.

[Dr Evans]

To repeat the quote we heard earlier, we need to walk and chew gum at the same time. It is easy to call China a threat, but still to engage. That is exactly what the Chinese Government do to us: they say, “We’re embarrassed. We’re upset. You promised us something”, and we just say, “Oh, I’m terribly sorry about that.” We could stand up for ourselves and say what we think. Let us not forget that we are in a trade deficit with China; it is economically in China’s interest to be working with us, as much as it is in our interest to be working with China.

My worry, though, is that the public are joining dots. The Government will say that there are no dots to be joined, but the longer this goes on and the more incidents come out, it becomes harder to make that argument. That brings us full circle to where I started, because this is about transparency and releasing the documentation.

[Peter Swallow]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving way and for bringing us back to where he started. He started his speech by suggesting that the Government were intervening unduly in this case. He then went on to suggest that the Government did not intervene unduly enough. Can he be clear on this: is his position and that of the Opposition that the Government should have interfered in an independent prosecution, or not? It is unhelpful to be saying both things at the same time.

[Dr Evans]

I feel I am being misquoted, because I have simply asked for all this to be resolved by publishing the information. The Government could come out and say that China is a threat. I have also said that we can call it a threat and work economically with the Chinese. That is what I hope will happen. [Interruption.] I will finish at that point.

[Katie Lam (Weald of Kent) (Con)]

My hon. and right hon. Friends have set out well how the Government’s account of how the case collapsed simply does not add up, so in the interests of time I will make just this one point. If, as many on the Opposition Benches and I suspect to be the case, the Prime Minister’s account of this situation is not factually correct, he has allowed this case to collapse to win favour in Beijing. That is a profound state of weakness.

Even if the Prime Minister’s account of the situation is true, that means he does not have control over his officials. Serious national security decisions are being made without his knowledge. That, too, is a profound state of weakness. It is important to establish the facts.

[Peter Swallow]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Katie Lam]

I regret that I cannot; I promised to speak briefly.

Whatever the facts may be, this is not how serious countries behave. Regardless of our politics, we should all want our country to be respected by our friends and our adversaries. Under this Government, our friends see us as unreliable and our adversaries see us as a pushover. It is time for the Government to tell the truth and undo some of the harm that they have done to this country’s standing in the world.

Official Secrets Act Case: Witness Statements

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ward]

Just to say, I have huge respect for the right hon. Member, even if that evidently is not mutual at the moment—let us see if we can get to that place.

The Prime Minister answered this question yesterday. I fully appreciate how personally this affects the right hon. Member, his constituency and his office. I do understand that, and I am genuinely not trying to play politics. I see his eyebrows raised at that, but I am genuinely not. I am trying to tell the story of how this situation has progressed and to reiterate from the Dispatch Box the point that the Prime Minister made yesterday and the Security Minister made on Monday, which is that the Government’s position—as it has been under successive Governments, but particularly under this Prime Minister—is that there will be no interference with the CPS in the process of this, and that every effort was made to try to deliver evidence to support its case when it was asked for.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

As the right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat) emphasises so emphatically, across the whole House we are appalled by the actions of the Chinese state. I want to go back to the precise law under which the charges were brought. The Act was first introduced in 1911 and the Conservatives set out to review it when they were in Government in 2015, but they did not successfully replace with a law that was fit for purpose until 2023, eight years later. Had the Conservatives got on with the job and replaced the law more quickly, would we be in a different position now?

[Chris Ward]

My hon. Friend invites me to play party politics, and I have promised several times that I am not going to do that. Factually, it is true that if the espionage Act had been updated more quickly and the current Act had been in place at the time, the case would have been able to proceed. That is the case. Decisions were taken not to do that, and I think that is greatly regrettable.

Middle East

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The terms on which we recognised Palestine, and those on which all the countries that recently recognised Palestine did so, expressly acknowledged that Hamas can play no part in its governance. That is at the heart of the New York declaration as well, and it is absolutely part of the 20-point plan. It is really important that we assert that and reassert it. That has been the constant position of this Government and my personal position, so I can give the hon. Member that reassurance.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s statement, particularly his commitment to seeking a lasting, long-term peace in the region, because Israel will not be secure and the Palestinian people will not be free until we break this endless cycle of violence. Turning to the immediate situation on the ground, the Gazans still face a man-made famine, so I really welcome the flooding-in of aid that the Prime Minister talked about in his statement. However, could he say a little more about the timescale for that, and how soon we can start to see that aid getting in and having an effect on the ground?

[The Prime Minister]

We need it to go in today, tomorrow and in the coming days—we cannot delay on that front. That is among the most essential tasks that lie ahead, particularly in relation to the man-made famine.

Official Secrets Act

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Monday 15th September 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for her remarks, and I completely understand why she has phrased them in the way that she has. Let me also join her in thanking you, Mr Speaker, for the work you have done to keep parliamentarians safe. Over the next few days, weeks, months and years, it is vital that we work together. I look forward to meeting you later on today to discuss how we can ensure that we work together to safeguard all our parliamentary colleagues.

Turning to the substance of the remarks made by the hon. Lady, I agree with her characterisation of the National Security Act. I will look very carefully at the points she made specifically with regard to treason. On her assessment of the decision that has been made, I completely understand why she has arrived at that conclusion, as will Members right across the House. In my opening remarks, I expressed my extreme disappointment at the decision that has been made. These remarks, and the judgments people are forming in the House this afternoon, will be heard by the CPS. I know that she will take every opportunity—as will the right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat), whom she referenced in her introductory remarks—to seek a meeting with the CPS at the earliest available opportunity to hear and better understand the decision-making process it has been through.

As I have said previously, I am not able to speculate on the reason why the CPS has taken this decision. I am extremely disappointed that it has done so, but I will do everything I can to ensure that Government are organised so that we can ensure we have the resources in the right place to stand against the threats that we face.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I have raised with the Security Minister on several occasions the fears of the Hong Kong community in Bracknell and across the country, and today is just another reminder of the long arm of the Chinese state that so worries my constituents. Given that, and given the real and genuine fears of the Hong Kong community, does the Minister agree that it is important that as we seek, rightly, to reform the immigration system—it is good to see the Migration Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Dover and Deal (Mike Tapp), in his place next to the Security Minister—we nevertheless safeguard and protect the bespoke route of the British national overseas visa, recognising the historic commitment we have to the Hong Kong community?

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the work he has done to support his constituents and champion Hongkongers. Hopefully he heard my earlier remarks about the respect and admiration that we have for Hongkongers and the importance that we attach to our relationship. I completely understand the fears that have been represented by my hon. Friend and a number of his constituents; I have had a number of meetings with members of that community and will have further such meetings. I look forward to working with him and with colleagues in the Department to ensure that those from the community feel that the Government will protect them, because that is what we will always want to do.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Thursday 4th September 2025 Commons Chamber

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

It is great to see that the hon. Gentleman is disappointed that House of Lords reform is not going far enough. If he wants to talk about the 20th century and the length of time that his party was in power, I would say that it had every opportunity to bring about full reform of the House of Lords. Not only did the Conservatives bring about minimal reform, at best, but they blocked every attempt at major reform. It is difficult, therefore, to take their 2025 position seriously.

The point about the Select Committee is that we have had on the one hand accusations that the Government are acting in a party political way and, on the other, requests for the Government to do things cross-party. That is precisely what the Select Committee will do: it will give the opportunity to consider issues such as retirement age and participation. The debate in the upper House covered those matters across different parties. The Select Committee will be established within three months of Royal Assent. The hon. Gentleman asked about deadlines, and I can tell him that the Committee will issue its findings by next summer.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I, for one, am perplexed. We have heard Opposition Members say that they want us to go faster and further in reforming the House of Lords, and we have heard them chuntering about the divine right of whoever and whatever in that place. Does the Minister agree that the Opposition seem to be rather confused about this, which perhaps stands as testament to the ability of the Leader of the Opposition to lead her party?

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

The word “confused” sums up the Opposition, whether on this Bill or any other.

UK-EU Summit

Peter Swallow Excerpts

Tuesday 20th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We are discussing and engaging on that issue, which, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows, is important.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

Morrisons has said that the deal will

“ease…pressure on food prices”,

Asda has said it

“has the potential to significantly reduce costs and bureaucracy”,

and the British Retail Consortium has said it will help to “keep costs down”. Does the Prime Minister agree with their assessment that this deal will help families in Bracknell Forest and across the country facing a high cost of living?

[The Prime Minister]

The deal will massively help my hon. Friend’s constituents because it will bring costs down. Morrisons is not the only supermarket that has come out in support of the agreement—pretty well all the supermarkets have come out openly supporting it. There is a reason for that: it will bring the prices on their shelves down, and that is good for working people across the country.

House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Peter Swallow Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 15th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “That” to the end of the Question and add:

“this House declines to give a Second Reading to the House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill because it is not an acceptable or effective method of enacting major constitutional change, because it proposes a significant alteration to the composition of the House of Lords which should not be considered in isolation from other changes, having regard to the undertakings given by the then Government in 1999, because it drip-feeds changes that hinder proper scrutiny of measures that could change the relationship between the two Houses, because it risks unintended consequences, does not reflect the lack of political consensus on House of Lords reform and does not provide for full consultation and pre-legislative scrutiny which would give the opportunity to consider the case for overall reform, seek cross-party engagement on proposals, and review the implications of all proposals.”

The British constitution is not codified. One might not choose to craft such a system if one were establishing a new country from scratch, but we are proud to be an old country. The checks and balances of the House of Lords—its tried and tested conventions—work. The House of Lords does not claim to be a democratic Chamber. That is the key point: this elected House has primacy. Of course, the British constitution does—and should—continue to evolve, but we should fix only what is broken and be cautious about rushing into change. Our evolution should start with questions of efficacy, not optics. We should be guided by the wisdom of past generations, and the continuity of history and tradition. As Edmund Burke wrote:

“We have an inheritable crown, an inheritable peerage, and a House of Commons and a people inheriting privileges, franchises, and liberties from a long line of ancestors.”

The Paymaster General has described the excepted peers as “out of step” with modern Britain. Like the Blair and Brown Governments, this Government seem obsessed with change for change’s sake. We have seen it all before. We have seen this rebranding spun to give the impression of progress: the Law Lords replaced with the Supreme Court; the Lord Chancellor’s Department aping the US-style Justice Department; even Her Majesty’s Stationery Office recast as the Office of Public Sector Information. At best, it is cosmetic; at worst, it risks irreversible damage. As we saw with the changes to the House of Lords’ judicial role, rushed constitutional change leads to unintended consequences. We should, therefore, proceed with caution.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

The role of hereditary peers in our democratic system is a bygone relic of a less democratic age. May I ask whether that is why the shadow Minister feels such an affinity for it?

[Sir Oliver Dowden]

I join the Government in paying tribute to the hereditary peers. The argument that I will elucidate in my speech, as set out in the amendment, is that if this Government are committed to reform of the upper House, they should consider all the consequences of that reform, and this House, and the other place, should have ample opportunity to consider it properly.