English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship Mr Crausby. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) on securing this short but important debate. I have visited North Wales and his constituency and I canvassed there during the by-election for the Welsh Assembly—I must concede to the hon. Gentleman that it was not for his party. I was delighted with the result we saw for Plaid Cymru that evening.

We have never had a measure quite like English votes for English laws. We have heard a little about the historical context and precedents, but we have to go back to the days of Gladstone before we find anything like it being attempted in this House. In those days, there were Members of Parliament from a nation that decided that it wanted its own constitutional future, just as there are now. We can see what happened when the Government tried to impose such a law in the House then, and history’s judgment. The Government of that day realised very quickly that the plans were unworkable and withdrew them.

One might think that something of such constitutional significance and historical importance would be subject to the utmost parliamentary scrutiny—wide-ranging consultative pre-legislative scrutiny and a full debate.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I am sorry, but I cannot give way, because I have to leave time for the Front Benchers.

Instead, the proposal has been rushed through at breakneck speed. We learned yesterday from the press that the Leader of the House of Commons intends to bring forward his proposals before recess—before anybody has had an opportunity to try to understand and assess what is going on.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) and several other Members have consistently and continually asked the Leader of the House to start to explain a little about the process and how this matter will be determined. All we hear in return is that he will bring his proposals to the House soon. I think we know that, because he has said it on several occasions, but why can he not answer basic questions about what is proposed? Is what the Government are trying to do with EVEL a state secret?

We need a debate. We have to understand what is going on, because it will impact on my rights to represent my constituents effectively in the House. It will have an impact on the ability of everyone who has contributed to the debate to represent properly the people who elected us to do our jobs here.

[Mr Andrew Turner]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I do not have time to take interventions.

It is important that we have a proper debate and proper scrutiny. We know a little about EVEL because William Hague presented his Command Paper at the end of the last Parliament. We have a sort of EVEL hokey cokey. It looks as though Welsh and Scottish Members will be gatekeepers to Bills—we will all get an opportunity to debate and vote on Second Reading. Then we will all be sent away and there will presumably be some sort of English Grand Committee, where the English Members will work on a Bill and cross the t’s and dot the i’s. The Bill will then come back to us again and, bizarrely, after English Members have done all the work on a Bill, we will get an opportunity to vote it down if we do not like it. Have you ever heard anything so bizarre or absurd, Mr Crausby? We will leave the English Members to do all the work and then decide whether we like what they have done. No wonder so many English Members are furious about the suggestion and do not like the proposals. It is a bizarre way to go forward.

The proposed arrangement will place the Speaker in the most invidious political situation possible, as it will be up to him to determine whether Bills are English only. We see in the Command Paper that the only people he will consult are the Clerks. He has to do better than that. He has to consult the Welsh Assembly. He has to consult the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament to ensure that there is no Scottish consequence or impact—these things need to be determined. And it will not be open to legal challenge—that is the real reason why the Government are not bringing forward legislation. The constitution unit told us clearly that if it was introduced through legislation, there would be the possibility and option of legal challenge—the constituents we represent would be able to challenge something decided in this House. The Government are pursuing the idea of Speaker certification to take it out of the hands of the law, so that no one will have the opportunity to raise questions about its legality. That is unfair and bizarre. It is no way to proceed with something so important. We must have a say. I pity the Speaker of the House of Commons; he will be placed in a political situation of determining whether something has an impact on or consequence for the constituents we represent. That is not fair. No wonder the Speaker is anxious and nervous about being given such powers.

[Mr Turner]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Turner]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

Can the hon. Gentleman not hear? Is he incapable of hearing, Mr Crausby? [Interruption.]

[Mr David Crausby (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) is clearly not giving way.

[Pete Wishart]

I will finish with what has happened over the past few days. I am sure that Members from Wales, and certainly Members from Scotland, are carefully watching.

[Albert Owen]

And Northern Ireland.

[Pete Wishart]

The hon. Gentleman is right. In the past few days, we have had the Scotland Bill and a series of amendments that the Scottish Parliament decided were necessary. They were agreed with the Scottish Parliament. We put the amendments to the House— 56 out of the 59 democratically elected MPs from Scotland, reflecting the will of the Scottish people in those amendments. What happened? English Members voted them down. If EVEL is good enough for them, what about WVWL, Welsh votes for Welsh laws, or ScVScL, Scots votes for Scots laws? English Members are happy to turn up to Scottish and Welsh questions, as they should, but this has to work both ways. We cannot have English Members voting down the settled will of the Scottish people that comes to this House through 56 out of the 59 MPs and then demanding that we have no say over legislation that will have an impact on—a severe one in some cases—and have financial consequences for our constituents.

There is an elegant solution. It is called federalism. It is called doing things properly, which is what we again put to the House. We do everything in terms of collecting our taxes and making our own decisions, and we come together in the United Kingdom Parliament to determine foreign affairs and defence issues. We put that elegant solution to the House. As long as we have asymmetric devolution, which never seems to satisfy English Members, our Welsh friends or us, we will always be revisiting the arrangement and it will always be untidy. There will always be problems and issues, but that is what the Government want and they will have to accept the consequences. It will never be neat and tidy. We will always have issues to deal with and tidy up.

Unless we adopt the solution, which we will offer again and again throughout this Parliament, whereby this nation comes as close to federalism as possible, as was promised during the referendum, we will never resolve a situation in which one nation makes up about 80% to 85% of the population of this country. Unless we get close to federalism, we will continue to revisit this issue, we will never resolve it and we will have debates, like this one, in which no one is happy about something in the United Kingdom. We have great unhappiness in Scotland, England and Wales. For goodness’ sake, let us sort it out and get it fixed. Let us have federalism and ensure that everybody knows what they are dealing with.

Business of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I thank the Leader of the House for announcing the business for next week and for his comments on the attack on the Parliament in Kabul, which I think were well made.

Next week we will return to consideration of the Scotland Bill, with two days for further amendments to try to improve it and return to it the principles of the Smith commission, which the Scottish Parliament’s devolution Committee believes have not been met, and neither does the House of Commons Library, as my hon. Friend the Member for Moray (Angus Robertson) told the Prime Minister yesterday. Will the Secretary of State for Scotland therefore come to the House next Monday and Tuesday in a much more accommodating mood, in order to ensure that the principles of the Smith commission are met?

The Leader of the House had better not be thinking about amending the Scotland Bill in the unelected House of Lords. The House of Lords, I can tell him, has never been held in such contempt by the Scottish people, who see it as nothing other than a repository for the donors and cronies of the UK parties. The Bill must be amended in the elected House of Commons, so may we have an assurance that any important amendments will be made here and not in that bloated, ermine-coated, absurd legislature down the corridor?

I see that we are to have a debate next week on English votes for English laws as it would apply to north Wales, secured by the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen)—I do not see him in his place. Perhaps we will at last get some answers on English votes for English laws, because the Leader of the House has failed to answer a single parliamentary question on the matter. We now have three weeks until the summer recess, so will he bring forward his plans and start answering questions? He is going to have to turn up to the debate next Wednesday, so can we hear some more about English votes for English laws and how that will affect my hon. Friends and you, Mr Speaker, because it will place you in the most invidious political position. We need some answers.

Lastly, the Scottish schools go on holiday next week. Our recess is almost three months long, yet we seem unable to match our recess arrangements with the school holidays in a large part of the United Kingdom. Many of my hon. Friends have young children. It is great that English Members will get to spend the whole recess in their constituencies with their families, but my hon. Friends will not. We are off for almost three months! Surely it is not beyond the wit of this House to design a recess period to cover that. I suggest that we do away with the Daily Mail fortnight in September and with the conference recess. Let us have a recess that covers all the school holidays and then let us return here, like everybody else in the country, after the August bank holiday. Surely that makes sense for everybody. I hope that the Leader of the House will consider that suggestion.

[Chris Grayling]

First, on the Scotland Bill, I can only reiterate that the Government are fulfilling our obligation and implementing the Smith commission’s report. The hon. Gentleman will have plenty of opportunities to bring forward amendments if he so chooses and to question Scotland Office Ministers about the content of the Bill. However, as the Prime Minister said clearly yesterday during Prime Minister’s questions, we are fulfilling our obligation to the Scottish people by delivering the package of devolution that we set out before them. They looked at it and chose to stay within the United Kingdom, and I am very grateful that they did. We are fulfilling the agreement we made at the time, and that is what the Bill does.

On English votes for English laws, I can only reiterate that we will bring forward our proposals shortly. They are measures that both the Labour party and the Scottish National party should support—the Labour party because it no longer has a presence in Scotland, so it should understand the need for fairness in this country’s devolution settlement, and the SNP because, as a champion of devolution, it should understand the need for fairness. I hope that when I bring forward the proposals shortly they will welcome them and see them as an important part of solidifying our constitutional arrangements.

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point about the recess arrangements. The Chief Whip and I will always think carefully about how best to structure the parliamentary calendar. It is not always easy to provide a solution that satisfies everyone, but we will always try to make this place as child and family-friendly as possible.

Finally, although there are still some terrible conflicts around the world, which we hope to see resolved, I have to report to the House that one conflict close to home appears to have been resolved. The morning race for the Front Bench below the Gangway on the Opposition side has stopped, peace has broken out and an agreement has been reached between the two parties on where they will sit in future. That is good news for this House, although perhaps bad news for the bookmakers.

Use of the Chamber (Youth Parliament)

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Gentleman. He is but a boy in this House, and it would be unthinkable for this Parliament to be without his presence in his traditional place.

It is obviously a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). I commend him for his work as children’s Minister and for his work with the Youth Parliament. He has been a massive supporter of the UKYP and, like him, I hope to continue to see many more such meetings in the House of Commons.

It is also the first time I have been able to address the House with you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, so this is my opportunity to pay congratulations to you on your rightful assent. I served under you when you were the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, so it is a pleasure to serve under you as Madam Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons.

This debate would not happen in Scotland, because we are going to give the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds. I pay tribute to my colleagues in the Scottish Parliament, who last week passed legislation to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in Scottish parliamentary elections. It is such a shame that probably in the same year as those young people go and vote in a Scottish parliamentary election, this House will deny them the opportunity to vote in the EU referendum.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

Is the hon. Gentleman saying that if 16 and 17-year-olds were given the vote, the Youth Parliament should not meet in this place?

[Pete Wishart]

If 16 and 17-year-olds were given the vote, it would not make sense for 16 and 17-year-olds to meet here as a sub-Parliament.

I wish that the hon. Gentleman would take a cursory glance at the galvanising effect of involving young people in the democratic process. All of us on the SNP Benches are recipients of the engagement that we have seen in Scotland. Like all my hon. Friends, I visited most of my local schools during the referendum campaign. People would not believe the outlook that those young people had. Being questioned by 16-year-olds about “sterlingisation” and Barnett consequentials is something that I will never forget. That was a feature of the involvement of young people in the referendum campaign.

We felt that it was important to continue that involvement for every election to come. Where we have jurisdictional responsibility, 16 and 17-year-olds will continue to have the vote. It is just such a shame that they will be deprived of the opportunity to participate in the EU referendum and in elections to this House, when they should have that opportunity.

I am a signatory to the motion. I think that I speak on behalf of all my colleagues in saying that we really enjoy the fact that the young people of the UK can come to this Parliament and participate in debate. Like the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, I observed their proceedings in this House and saw their mature response, the effective and real debate that they had on a variety of issues, the way that they conducted themselves, and their sheer joy and pleasure at being in this House with Mr Speaker in the Chair, directing the debate. It is something that I am sure none of those young people will forget. Now that they have had that taste of democratic, electoral politics, I am sure that they will play a full part in the democratic process.

[Mr Winnick]

I am sure that Hansard will correct the hon. Gentleman, but my constituency is Walsall North.

[Pete Wishart]

I am so grateful to the hon. Gentleman for putting me right. How could I possibly get his constituency wrong? Of course he is the hon. Member for Walsall North, and a distinguished Member at that.

I am very fond of the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), as he knows. I hope that he comes to Perth racecourse this year, where he and I can have a little flutter on the gee-gees at Scone Palace. However, I have heard him make the same speech again and again. When he started making it, he was dinosaur junior. Now, he is dinosaur senior, such is his elevated position among right-wing Conservative Members of Parliament. He is almost the sole and exclusive representative of one of the most dwindling clubs of Conservative Members of Parliament. It is heartening to see him in a minority of one in addressing the House on this issue because he is totally wrong.

This place should be opened up to young people. This is a fantastic opportunity for them to come to the House of Commons and participate in its debates and proceedings. I hope that, in years to come, we will continue to open our doors to the young people of the United Kingdom.

Business of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I welcome my hon. Friend to his place in this House. He has already made a great start in representing the interests of his constituency on an immensely serious issue that we as a Government take very seriously. He will be aware that the Department for Transport is already funding a study on how it can improve safety on that stretch of road. It will look very carefully at the conclusions of that study and will, I hope, make necessary improvements.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I too thank the Leader of the House for the business for next week. I add my congratulations to the winners of the Select Committee Chairs—not because I have a personal interest—and give my commiserations to the losers. I felt that it was like a bad Oscars or “Britain’s Got Some Sort Of Talent” when the announcements were being made, but congratulations to everybody involved.

I am sure that the Leader of the House has heard this morning the absolute fury from Scotland about the early ending of the renewables obligation for onshore wind and the very real threat from the Scottish Government to have this judicially reviewed, such is the threat to the 70% of the industry that is based in Scotland. Some 100 applications will now be under threat because of this Conservative Government’s almost ideological contempt for onshore wind and other renewables.

This seems to fit into a pattern. We have the return of the Scotland Bill in a couple of weeks, but this week not one amendment was accepted by a Government who said they would listen to the Scottish Government on the Bill. Amendments that were agreed cross-party even by the Conservative party in the Scottish Parliament have been rejected by the Government. It is almost as if they want us to go, given the way they are dealing with Scottish issues in the House of Commons.

I want to talk about English votes for English laws as well. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) asked some very basic and reasonable questions about the Leader of the House’s proposals and plans for English votes for English laws, and what did we get? “I intend to bring the proposals to the House.” We know that is what he intends to do, but as well as having no debate, no scrutiny and no consultation, we are not even supposed to ask him basic questions about English votes for English laws. When are we going to see these proposals and have them brought before the House?

I thought I was going to take part in business questions today after the first Government defeat. What a gift was given to the Labour party this week with the Tory rebellion—an open goal, only for it to put the ball in its own net. The Leader of the House likes to go on about seating arrangements in this House. I suggest that what we might want to do is to have us on the Labour Benches as the real Opposition to this Government, because that compliant lot, sitting on their hands again and again, are letting the Tories off the hook. They will not be let off the hook by the Scottish National party—that’s for sure.

[Chris Grayling]

May I start by congratulating the hon. Gentleman on his elevation to the Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee? He is going to be busy, because he wears another hat when participating in business questions.

On onshore wind, this Government are committed to renewable energy, but I am afraid that my idea of renewable energy does not involve covering some of the most beautiful parts of the United Kingdom and the highlands of Scotland with wind farms. I support offshore wind, but I also support the beautiful countryside of the United Kingdom and I want to preserve it. I am proud to be part of a Government who believe that is important.

The Scotland Bill implements the recommendations of the Smith commission—a commitment that was made by the previous Government and which has been continued by this Government—in the wake of the decision by the Scottish people to remain a part of the United Kingdom.

On the issue of English votes, as I have said, I will, when we are ready, inform the whole House. I say to the Scottish nationalists, with apologies, that I do not intend to inform them of our plans before I tell the whole House.

Finally, on the seating question, I gather that the morning race continues and it looks like the SNP won this morning. Opposition seating arrangements are a matter for the two parties involved to sort out and for us to watch with amusement.

Business of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 11th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I suspect that many of us in the House have constituents and families of constituents who have come to see us, having experienced the dreadful impact of Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and our hearts go out to all those who suffer from this dreadful disease. The matter will be debated in Westminster Hall next week. It is a matter that is very much on the agenda of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health. I know that he will make more information available to the House shortly.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I thank the Leader of the House for announcing next week’s business.

May I say to the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) that my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) was merely practising his roar in the bathroom last week, and a very impressive roar it is too—[Interruption.]—as one can hear. When it comes to opposition, it sometimes helps to actually oppose, rather than voting with the Conservatives for two weeks in a row—Labour voting with the Tories, the Tories voting with the Labour party. The SNP Benches are where the real opposition takes place.

We all immensely enjoyed the Chancellor’s Mansion House speech, and I understand that we are about to have a statement, not from the Chancellor but from a junior Treasury Minister, about the plans to sell off RBS shares at a knock-down price. I hope we are also going to hear something about the other stuff that was mentioned in the Mansion House speech last night, not least the proposal to put in place plans for a fiscal surplus, binding future Governments. To me that looks like setting in stone this Government’s austerity plans and balancing the books on the backs of the most marginal and vulnerable in our community, so we need to hear clearly the Government’s intention in that regard.

Next week we have two days on the Floor of the House to consider amendments to the European Union Referendum Bill, and there are still outstanding issues in relation to 16 and 17-year-old voters, the franchise and the date of the election. If the referendum date is not changed, we could face the ridiculous and absurd prospect next May of 16 and 17-year-olds being ID-ed in the ballot station as they get around to the business of voting in the Scottish Parliament elections, and being booted out and not allowed to participate in the EU referendum. We need to hear clearly that the Government are ruling out any prospect of an EU referendum on the date of the Scottish Parliament elections.



Lastly, it is quite clear now that the Government intend to rush through their plans for English votes for English laws. It may not be next week or the week after, but they have already said that there will be no legislation and no scrutiny. There are huge constitutional issues in this, not least for you, Mr Speaker, as you will be placed in an invidious political situation, where you may be asked to certify whether I and my hon. Friends can vote on significant issues that may have an impact on our constituents. We need a full and proper debate about this. We need to hear when the Leader of the House will bring forward the proposals and how we are to have full consultation and a full debate.

[Chris Grayling]

I have noticed the battle taking place between the two parties across the Floor of the House over who is the real Opposition. I suspect that battle will continue for some considerable time. All I would say to the House is that while it is going on, we will carry on governing the country and doing the right thing for our constituents.

The hon. Gentleman made a comment about the speech made at the Mansion House last night by the Chancellor of the Exchequer and talked about austerity. I do not think he quite understands what a basic and simple concept this is: it is a good idea that people live within their means. That is what we stand for. It is his party that stands for irresponsibility, and that irresponsibility is what got this country into a mess in the first place. It is absolutely right that we should be responsible in the future. I am just disappointed that Scottish nationalists simply do not understand that.

On the European Union Referendum Bill, of course I have seen the amendments SNP Members have tabled. They will be debated next week and we will see whether the House supports them.

On English votes for English laws, as I said earlier, we will talk to all parties in the House. Hon. Members will have time to respond and there will be a full debate in this House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I can confirm, as the Prime Minister did this week, that that is absolutely our intention.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The leaking of information to the press before it comes to the House is increasingly frustrating the public. This question is as much for you, Mr Speaker, as for the Leader of the House: is it not time we started thinking about sanctions for Ministers who indulge in this behaviour—for example, not being able to give the oral statement in the House?

[Chris Grayling]

I have no doubt that my colleagues will be making extensive statements to the House about their policy plans, the changes they are enacting and the issues they face. However, given that this is the first Conservative Government for far too long in this country, I ask the hon. Gentleman at least to treat current Conservative Cabinet Ministers as innocent unless proven guilty.

Business of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Forgive me; this will, I hope, be the last intervention from the Chair. For the benefit of the House, I should emphasise that the third party spokesman has acknowledged rights on this occasion, as was the case when the Liberal Democrats were the third party, so I hope that there will be proper forbearance and tolerance as I call Mr Pete Wishart and allow him to develop his line of questioning.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I am very grateful, Mr Speaker.

May I pay my tributes to Charles Kennedy? I was with him on the night of the tuition fees vote when we left the building through the back door, as thousands of angry students descended on the House. Even though Charles had not voted for the tuition fees measure, he told me, “Pete, if you fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows, and tonight you are with the crows.” I can report that we made it to Waterloo station safely.

The Leader of the House does not know how excited SNP Members are that the first Bill is the Scotland Bill on Monday. I am very grateful to him for giving us an extra day to improve the Bill, because improvement it needs, as I think he knows. We want to see all the Smith proposals in full, but that is just the baseline—the very minimum that we expect to improve the Bill. It is fantastic that we are getting such time to debate it and that the first Bill in the House is about getting more powers to Scotland. I hope that he is listening to the many representations from the Scottish Government and that he will accept the mandate of the 56 SNP MPs out of 59 as we try to improve the Bill. That is the way to do it—a Bill is brought in and we have First Reading, Second Reading, and then long debate and scrutiny.

I just wish the Leader of the House would do the same for English votes for English laws, something with such significant constitutional implications. There is not even a Bill, just a change to Standing Orders. Will he tell us a bit more about what he intends to do with EVEL? Will we get to amend it? Will we get to scrutinise it? How will scrutiny be exercised? What about the House of Lords? There are 100 Scottish peers down the corridor—will it be English votes for English Lords? Where are we on that sort of thing?

I noted that there was no discussion or debate on the Queen’s Speech about reform of the House of Lords. The only thing that the Leader of the House wants to do is put more of his cronies and donors into that already overstuffed House. Ermine-coated, never been voted—let us get rid of the House of Lords. It has almost a thousand Members, and the public need reassurance that we will have some sort of reform.

We are almost three weeks into the House’s business, and we have not yet had a departmental statement. May I suggest that the first statement should be a clear statement of what the Government intend to do about the Mediterranean crisis? They should be willing to play a bigger part and take seriously their responsibilities, particularly when it comes to assisting refugees.

[Chris Grayling]

To take the last point first, the Foreign Secretary was of course in the House earlier in the week, and there was plenty of opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to raise with him that issue and other issues related to international affairs.

May I associate myself with the hon. Gentleman’s comments about Charles Kennedy? His untimely death is a great loss to Scotland, and this House has shown itself at its best in the cross-party recognition of the contribution that he made.

With regard to the Scottish National party’s well-advertised desire for more powers for Scotland, I say to the hon. Gentleman that in the Government’s view, the Scotland Bill will deliver a major change for Scotland and a significant enhancement of the powers of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government. Some of the arguments that the SNP is making simply do not add up. It wants much greater power and full fiscal autonomy, but it simply has not addressed the fact that were it to have that, it would have to choose between massive spending cuts and substantial tax increases in Scotland, neither of which I think the Scottish people would wish for.

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should sometimes go down and have a listen to the quality of debate in the House of Lords. We have in that place people with immensely important expertise, who bring something to the quality of debate in Parliament. I have to say that I disagree with his view of that House.

I finish by referring to reports that I have seen today, and rumours that I have been picking up around the House, about the time when Members take their seats in the mornings. I understand that both Labour and Scottish National party Members are looking to come in earlier and earlier in the morning to secure their seats, possibly even earlier than 7 o’clock in the morning. It has been suggested to me that, to accommodate that, a trolley service of breakfast might be provided to Members in the Chamber to enable them to come in that early. I simply say that I do not think that would be consistent with the traditions of the House.

Select Committees

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May I warmly congratulate you, Mr Deputy Speaker, on being returned as the Chairman of Ways and Means? Given that you had the enthusiastic support of my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), it was almost certain that you would be returned to the position and I warmly welcome that.

I also warmly welcome the motions. Motions 1 and 3 deal with the new Public Administration and Constitutional Reform Committee. I feel the pain of the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) at the abandonment of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, particularly when there are so many big, meaty constitutional issues to consider in this Parliament. I am sure, however, that he will continue to contribute to the debate, and I know he will have a significant part to play in the ongoing constitutional debates in this House. I wish him well in that.

I warmly welcome the motion that states that, for the first time, the Scottish National party will chair a Select Committee in the House of Commons. It is like the proverbial bus: we wait for decades to secure a Chair of a Select Committee, and then two come along at once. May I congratulate the usual channels on the way in which this is being debated and decided? We are absolutely thrilled to be given the Chair of the Select Committees on Scottish Affairs and on Energy and Climate Change. We will use due diligence and ensure that we approach them consensually and in a way that will be of value to the House. I look forward to being a part of this set-up, and the Scottish National party very much welcomes the opportunity to chair those Committees.

May I briefly turn my attention to a little issue that we are going to have to address—I am grateful that the Chief Whip is in his place—and that is the membership of the Scottish Affairs Committee? It is an issue because I believe that there is an expectation in Scotland that, as usual, the majority of members of the Scottish Affairs Committee should be Members of Parliament from Scotland. That has always happened and I believe that there is an expectation for it to continue. I know that the Government are keen to progress English votes for English laws through the House, so I think that, in return, we have to have Scottish affairs for Scottish Members.

I know that the Chief Whip will have a clear look at that, and I hope he will report back that he agrees that the majority of the members of the Scottish Affairs Committee must be MPs from Scotland. I know it is down to our success, with 56—

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

Yes, I will give way.

[Andrew Percy]

The Health Committee on which I had the privilege to serve in the previous Parliament largely dealt with—indeed, in its last year it only dealt with—matters pertaining to England and the English NHS. Will the SNP be taking its seat on the Health Committee on that basis?

[Pete Wishart]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question, and yes we probably will, because there are massive issues to do with that, but I also say to the hon. Gentleman that we will not be looking for places on the Communities and Local Government Committee, which has nothing to do with Scotland.

One thing the Chief Whip and the Leader of the House can do when we are considering the arithmetical distribution of places across Select Committees is acknowledge that there are some Committees that we might not have an interest in. We will have an interest in the Health Committee, however, because there are big financial consequences to do with the Barnett formula. We will continue to take an interest in that, and it is only fair that we look at some of the financial issues in health measures passing through the House of Commons.

This is a problem, and it has to be addressed. We have been a victim of our own success—56 out of 59.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

On some of the Health Committees on which I served there were issues that were pertinent to Northern Ireland—10 or a dozen—and there will be things relating to the NHS that affect Scotland and its MPs.

[Pete Wishart]

Of course. We are a one nation Parliament, as the Prime Minister tells us, so let us accept that that is the case.

The Government are entitled to their arithmetical majority on the Scottish Affairs Committee, but the question they have to ask themselves in that regard is a legitimacy question, when almost all the Members for Scotland are from one party. I see that both the Chief Whip and Leader of the House are listening carefully to these remarks. There is an expectation in Scotland that this will happen—that there will be a majority of Scottish Members of Parliament on the Scottish Affairs Committee. Every other national Select Committee has such a majority of members, whether it is the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee or the Welsh Affairs Committee, and there has not been a Scottish Affairs Committee that has not had such a majority.

I ask the Leader of the House to address this point in his concluding remarks. Will he give us some comfort that he will at least look at this issue, and make a positive, progressive statement to ensure that we at least come close to, or get, a majority of Scottish Members on the Scottish Affairs Committee?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Menzies]

My point is an important one. SNP Members cannot come to the Chamber and demand a majority. In the last Parliament, when they had a seat on the Committee, they did not exercise that right to speak for Scotland. They cannot have their cake and eat it. If they wanted to be on that Committee in the last Parliament, why did they not exercise their right to take up their seat? Why come to the Chamber tonight and try to pull the wool over people’s eyes?

[Pete Wishart]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mark Menzies]

No. In the good traditions of the SNP, I will not take the hon. Gentleman’s intervention.

As a Scot who represents an English seat, I want to do the right thing by the Scottish Affairs Committee. I say to SNP Members: please do not come here and give us the heavy guilt trip, and say, “If you don’t have a majority of Scots on the Committee, you’re letting Scotland down.” In the last Parliament, they had a seat and did not take it up. Perhaps they were letting Scotland down. I will leave that point to rest.

Business of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 28th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

As a neighbouring MP in Surrey, I well understand both the concerns that my hon. Friend has raised. I have many constituents who raise concerns about the rail service, and of course the question of airports is going to be a very live one for this Parliament. The Transport Secretary is on the Front Bench so will have heard my hon. Friend’s comments. When the time comes for the publication of the Davies report, the Transport Secretary will, I have no doubt, make a statement to this House and address these issues. I can assure all Members there will be plenty of opportunities to raise questions.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

First, may I congratulate you very warmly on your re-election, Mr Speaker? I was one of your initial sponsors so it is particularly gratifying to see you in your place once again.

May I also congratulate the Leader of the House on being appointed to what I think is one of the great roles in this House? He and I entered Parliament together in 2001, and look at what has become of him! It is good to see him in his place. We on the Scottish National party Benches intend to keep in this Session to the good-natured but robust debates we have come to enjoy, and which have characterised business questions for much of the past few years.

Yesterday we found that the Government intend to make progress on their plans for English votes for English laws by changing the Standing Orders of this House. I listened very carefully to your ruling on this issue, Mr Speaker. I have to make an appeal to the Leader of the House: this is no way to discuss something of such constitutional significance. This affects the rights of individual Members of this House, and we have to have a Bill—we have to have legislation. I now hope that, for something as important as this, the right hon. Gentleman will think about it and bring a Bill before this House, so that we as hon. and right hon. Members have the opportunity to properly scrutinise and properly debate something as important as this.

When are we going to get a statement from the Scotland Office on the outcome of the leak inquiry into the botched smearing of Scotland’s First Minister? The former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), has already said that he would have resigned from that position over his role in this nonsense, but surely we must now hear from the Secretary of State himself on the role of the Scotland Office in this attempted smear.

Lastly, the Leader of the House is now clearly seeing that the real Opposition in this House sit on the SNP Benches. Labour, rudderless and leaderless, with its unedifying rush to the right—the Tory-lite right—by the leadership candidates, will not be holding this Government to account; it will be those of us on these Benches who will do so, and it is a job we look forward to.

[Chris Grayling]

First, on the issue of English votes for English laws, let me remind the hon. Gentleman that this is about creating a fair devolution settlement for the whole of the United Kingdom. In 10 days’ time we shall be debating the Second Reading of the Scotland Bill, which extends substantial powers to the Scottish Parliament. He must understand that it is important to make sure that we have a devolution settlement that is seen by all the people of the UK as fair for their interests. That is what we intend to do, and it is right and proper that it is debated in this House, and it will be. It is for this House to change its Standing Orders and it will be done, if it is done, by a vote of all the Members of this House, which is right and proper. If all Members of this House vote for a change, that change will happen.

On the Scotland Office and the leak inquiry, it is important to say that these matters are under careful consideration. There is some speculation at the moment that this may lead to a Standards Committee investigation. I think it is very important that if there is a possibility of further investigation, the person who holds my office does not at this stage comment one way or the other on it. It is clearly not desirable for there to be leaks wherever they happen, but I think the hon. Gentleman will have to wait for any due process that may take place.

Lastly, the hon. Gentleman made a point about how he sees the role of his party. I heard the shadow Leader of the House talk about the issue of who sits where. We shall watch that with interest from this side of the House: it is the first time I have seen anybody play musical chairs without the music.

Procedure of the House

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Thursday 26th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We have already anticipated some of this debate during the urgent question, but I rise to speak to the motions standing in my name and that of my right hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House.

The motions facilitate making decisions on areas which, to have any meaningful usefulness, need to be decided before the early days of the next Parliament. They include matters raised in the Procedure Committee’s latest report “Matters for the Procedure Committee in the 2015 Parliament”, published last week. The report specifically called for a decision of the House before the end of this Parliament on the issue of extending the trial of new arrangements for programming legislation. Let me deal with that motion first.

The House agreed on 8 May last year to the trial of new arrangements with regard to programming legislation, following the Procedure Committee report on the same subject, published in December 2013. The arrangements included bringing forward the deadline for tabling amendments, new clauses and schedules from two days to three days before the day on which the debate takes place. The Procedure Committee agreed to review the operation of the arrangements at the end of the current Session. That review, aided by a memorandum produced by the Public Bill Office, is summarised in last week’s Procedure Committee report. The report noted that the trial had not produced very much evidence on the impact of the change, and therefore recommended that the trial should be continued in the first Session of the next Parliament. The Procedure Committee also recommended that the deadline be extended to cover amendments in Committee of the whole House for all Bills, and on Report for unprogrammed bills.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

If we are having a secret ballot for the position of the Speaker of the House, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that we should have secret ballot for the position of the Leader of the House?

[Mr Hague]

I am talking about the programming of Bills, but I shall come on to the secret ballot issue in a moment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

I am not giving way any more, as I ought to draw my remarks to a conclusion.

I say to Conservative Members that when our procedure was crafted in 2001, we took the view that the re-election of a Speaker at the beginning of a new Parliament was, in effect, a vote of confidence in the Speaker. The Leader of the House suggested that anybody elected to a position of power over the people should be elected by secret ballot. The Prime Minister will also depend on a vote of confidence or a vote of no confidence. If the Leader of the House is to continue with this, his argument must be that a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister should be a secret ballot. Of course it should not. If Conservative Members genuinely believe that hon. Members will be so frightened that they will not be able to own up to the public how they voted on such a motion of confidence or no confidence in the Speaker, frankly, they have no confidence in one another.

The proceedings of this House were secret for centuries. John Wilkes campaigned to be allowed to reveal to the public what went on in this place. What did the majority Government do at the time? They used their majority to chuck him out of Parliament, and what did the voters do? They put him back in. What did the Government then do? They chucked him out. What did the voters do? They chucked him back in. They believed that this House’s proceedings should be in public and should be known to all so that voters could make their decisions.

The Leader of the House has done himself no favours; he has betrayed the confidence of the House today. He tabled his motion at some time about 7.30 last night. He did not notify the Opposition, but let us get over that. He is arguing that we should have a secret ballot for the election of the Chair of the Procedure Committee, yet he has deliberately gone behind the back of the very person who was elected by the whole House in a secret ballot. His argument bears no weight. Moreover, he constructed today’s one-hour debate in such a way as to make it impossible to table an amendment for consideration. It is completely impossible for us to consider a single amendment today. That is not the action of a Leader of the House who respects Parliament. That is why I say to him: in the name of God, go—and I think the people of this country will say the same.

[Pete Wishart]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given the great unhappiness about this process and the way this House has been bounced into considering it, is there any way that this question could not now be put?

[Mr Speaker]

There is, of course, a device of moving the previous question, but it would affect only the first of the motions, which is not the one that has excited the debate. It could be done, but I rather suspect that it would not be effective.