United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Before I call Pete Wishart, I just want to remind everyone that 18 Members still wish to participate in the debate, so please be mindful of that fact when making your contributions.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna Davison). I just love all the new Tory Members of Parliament—they are the best recruiting sergeant we have for the cause of independence anywhere in the House. Their lack of understanding of the devolution settlement is just astounding sometimes. What they are doing with their contributions and how that is assisting our cause is just fantastic for us. We very much enjoy every single contribution they make, and we want to encourage them. Please get up and disparage Scotland! Tell us our democracy does not matter! Tell us no, all the time, because all it does is grow support for independence.

[Dehenna Davison]

I would just like to thank the hon. Member for his mansplaining.

[Pete Wishart]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I have to say that I enjoyed her speech. I just wish that the Conservatives would make more of them, because this is just driving up support for us.

I rise today to oppose totally and utterly clauses 46 and 47 in their absolute entirety. With these clauses, we are now getting into the festering guts of this rotten rogue state Bill, and we are seeing how its entrails will choke the very life out of our Parliament and stifle our Scottish democracy. I hope that paints a vivid enough picture for Conservative Members. These clauses, if passed, would bring a shuddering halt to our Parliament’s exclusive authority over the devolved powers agreed in the Scotland Act 1998.

[David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I tend to eat Tory Back Benchers for breakfast, but if the hon. Gentleman wants, I will let him come in.

[David Simmonds]

I am grateful for his vivid description of the political impact of the Bill, but does he not recognise that the powers that the Bill covers are currently maintained in Brussels and supervised by the Council of Ministers, on which the devolved Administrations have no representation? He and his colleagues will therefore have a greater say over these matters when they are controlled by this House than they have done hitherto.

[Pete Wishart]

It is probably just as well I have eaten, because I would otherwise consume that with no problem at all. Can I just say to the hon. Gentleman that we would take the authority of the EU looking over Scotland any day, rather than rogue state UK. I say that very candidly and sincerely.

[Andrew Bowie]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

No, I won’t. [Interruption.] I might give way later, as the hon. Gentleman is a prize on the Government Benches, and we will of course want to hear from him in time, because I enjoy our little exchanges.

--- Later in debate ---

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

My hon. Friend is making a fine speech and points out the way that devolution has been torn apart by the Conservative party. The answer to that is what is increasingly coming from poll after poll of the Scottish people: the answer is not to continue under the Conservatives. The answer is independence; we go up the road and they can argue the way they want themselves.

[Pete Wishart]

Yes, what they want to do is up to them. Get on with it, for goodness sake, just do not take our country down with you. My hon. Friend is spot on.

What is the Government’s view on all this? I have listened to the speeches in this debate, and some of those from Conservative Members were totally astounding: “There’s nothing to see here. Don’t worry your precious little Jockish heads about what we’re doing. All we are doing is merely copying what the EU does on state aid and structural funding.” However, I say to them that this idea that there is some sort of equivalence between the European Union and the UK is total and utter bunkum and nonsense. Let me explain why to them. The EU is a partnership association made up of member states; it is a rules-based organisation based on the decisions of its members. The United Kingdom, on the other hand, is an incorporating Union that simply subsumes Scotland as a nation and forces us under the sovereignty of this Parliament, even though we agree on the principle of the sovereignty of the people. They could not be more different, but yet again Conservative Members tell us that this is all about an equivalence with the EU, and that is utter, utter bunkum.

[Alan Brown]

My hon. Friend is reminding Conservative Members of that point, and is it not the case that the EU has never forced a single infrastructure project on Scotland, yet clause 46 allows the UK Government to do what they want in Scotland against the wishes of the Scottish Parliament?

[Pete Wishart]

That is exactly the essence of what this is all about—this idea that somehow they know better for Scotland, better than the directly elected representatives of the people in the Scottish Parliament. It is an absurd suggestion. There is no evidence that they know better than the Scottish Parliament, and we will not accept that. I thank my hon. Friend for his thoughts.

The Government have suggested today that we are complaining about extra funding. First, is there any extra funding? Secondly, where does it come from? Thirdly, how much is it going to be? We could have a debate about extra funding if they could answer all those questions. I am looking at the Minister; maybe she could tell us. We have the devolved powers for a particular reason. It is because we want democratic control over the decision makers on everything from education to health to infrastructure to water—all the things that they now want to exercise responsibility over.

[Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Pete Wishart]

I do not have time. I am conscious that other people want to come in.

Before devolution, there was a Scotland Office. It exercised responsibility, authority and powers over all the areas that are now controlled by the Scottish Parliament. The reason devolution came across was to directly express democratic control over those responsibilities. The Government now want to go back to the dark days of the 1980s, under the regime of Michael Forsyth and Malcolm Rifkind. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] They are going “Hear, hear”! I am hearing a “Hear, hear” from the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie). May I just say that the rest of Scotland does not share that ambition? I am pretty certain that when he stands next year for the Scottish Parliament he will find that out.

So that is what the Government are doing—they are attempting to take us back to those days. Extra money is great if there is any; I am just wondering how much it is, and whatever it is, how it will be distributed. But it should be under the democratic control of the Scottish Parliament when it comes to the devolved powers, because that is what it is there to do.

Why are the Government really doing this? Here is my theory; tell me if I am on the right tracks. They can never win an election in Scotland—the Scottish Conservatives have absolutely no chance of winning an election in Scotland. The new ever-cheerful hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) and his belligerent baroness partner are actually taking the Scottish Conservatives further down. They are sinking below 20% in the polls. So they are thinking, “We’re never, ever going to get legislative responsibility and control of the Scottish Government, so we’ll just go round it—we’ll just circumvent it.” That is actually easier for the Scottish Conservatives than winning an election. So that is why they are doing it.

Another thing that they are doing is what I call “slap a jack on it”—the idea that somehow, the Scottish people will learn to love the Conservatives if they see a whole load of projects with Union Jacks on, given by the largesse and generosity of the Great Britain and United Kingdom Parliament. Nothing will irritate the Scottish people more than seeing all that rubbish splattered about our country.

I will just finish with this. Aggressive Unionism is not working for them. I know that they have all these new figures in the Scotland Office. They have the new constitution unit. Surely, with all these great thinkers on the Union, someone must be able to turn round to the Government and say to them, “We’ve tried this. We tried undermining the powers of the Scottish Parliament. We tried ‘slap a jack on it.’ We tried all these things to curtail Scottish democracy, and all that is happening is that support for independence is going up and up and up.” Now, it might just be me, but if you are doing the same thing again and again and it is not working for you, surely you should change it and do something different, to try and ensure that the Union case prevails. It is almost to our benefit that they are continuing with this type of aggressive Unionism, because what we have seen is a rise in support for independence. I give them this advice only because I know that they will never take it: what they are doing is ensuring the Union’s demise.

The day of Scotland being subject to rubbish like this rogue state UK Bill, with the stripping of our powers and the diminishing of our democracy, is a day too long. This issue will be critical in the next Scottish parliamentary election. They are going to get gubbed. There will be a demand from Scotland for independence, and it will be goodbye Westminster—and it cannot come soon enough.

[Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). As I am looking to speak about the Bill’s contents, I will not describe him in the patronising, condescending manner in which he describes me and my colleagues.

Although the coronavirus pandemic has had devastating impacts across many areas of our society, it has been useful in highlighting what is needed to achieve success and stability in the government of our nations—a united and consistent approach, and leadership. Many times in the past few months the governance from Wales has been neither united nor consistent, nor has it demonstrated leadership. The Welsh Government have let down the people of Wales due to its often slow, confusing and divided stance, and then had the audacity to turn the mirror on this House and say that the confusion was caused by the UK Government.

Amendment 33 would cause further division between our four nations and looks to divide our great Union completely. This is not a Bill about politics. It is not a Bill about who get to be the ones writing the cheques or taking the credit for things. This is an economic Bill that will allow more money to be spent in Wales for the benefit of our villages, towns, cities, businesses and residents. Covid has shown us the value of devolved nations working together as a united force, yet when provisions set out in the Bill allow for joint working and support that would benefit individuals across our United Kingdom, those sat on the other side of this House oppose it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

I will speak to clauses 46 and 47, because I am a good, well-behaved Member of this House, but I will make one quick point, which is that I am entirely comfortable with voting for every aspect of the Bill. From what I can see, it gives this country the ability to live entire and whole. If, under certain circumstances, the EU takes the extraordinary step of essentially forming a blockade in Northern Ireland and putting a border down the Irish sea, it gives us the ability, under these extraordinary circumstances, to show strength and to respond in kind. I am proud to support that.

Let me speak specifically to clauses 46 and 47. When it comes to the EU structural funds, I am slightly confused, because when we were in the European Union, Scotland had six MEPs out of 751 and Wales had four MEPs out of 751. That does not sound to me like much of a say, compared with Scotland now having 49 Members in this place and Wales having 40. To be perfectly honest, I think that what we are proposing in the Bill gives Wales and Scotland’s elected representatives far more say over how the money is spent.

[Pete Wishart]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Tom Hunt]

I will not give way. The Bill gives the people of your country far more say over how that money is spent, so it is something to be welcomed. You should stand up for your responsibility to represent your constituents in his place and come here, and when there are opportunities to frame how that money is spent in your areas, use it. That is far from saying, “Actually, no, we don’t want to have a greater influence over how this money is spent; we should send it back to Brussels”—where the money is spent in a most faceless way. Unelected bureaucrats in Brussels make decisions with a little EU flag attached to them. I am sorry, but I do not see the power grab here; it is not a power grab whatsoever.

[Pete Wishart]

We have been around this so many times. The devolved powers are the responsibility of the Scottish Government, and it is up to them to make spending priorities. However, I was interested by something the hon. Gentleman said about Scotland having six MEPs. How many does he think we get when we become an independent nation? Think of Denmark.

[Tom Hunt]

We are talking specifically about clauses 46 and 47. We are talking specifically about this money. My argument is that, under these clauses, the people of Scotland and its representatives will have far more influence over how that money is spent than under the status quo. I am glad you intervened on me, because I wanted to give you some political advice, because you are very good at giving political advice to us—