Scottish-recruited Units

Pete Wishart Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Westminster Hall

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

It feels a bit strange to be standing here once again to address the prospects for the Scottish regiments, which we now have to refer to as the Scottish-recruited units. I remember standing in this self-same spot in the first of two debates that I managed to secure to put the case for Scotland’s historic regiments, when the previous Labour Government introduced their amalgamation plans. I remember some of the fantastic speeches and really passionate contributions from Members on both sides of the House, who recognised the incredible community links and associations that our local then regiments had with all our communities and constituencies.

The regiments brought heritage, culture and traditions to our constituencies and communities. More than anything, people recognised the admiration and respect that we all felt towards our regiments for the almost unimaginable task that they did on our behalf and the pride and respect that we had for them for fulfilling their function and making this the best Army set-up anywhere in the world.

In 2004, the Labour Government were the villains. They pushed through their amalgamations in the face of total and overwhelming opposition. I remember the rallies, the demos—the Edinburgh demonstration in December 2004 and the rally in Dundee. People came together to oppose Labour’s amalgamation plans. There were petitions. Usually, if an MP has a petition and is out on the high street, people are reluctant to sign it, but people were queuing to sign the petition to save their local regiment.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the issue goes back to the 1960s? One of my great-grandfathers was a pipe major in the Gordon Highlanders and one of my grandfathers went through the whole of the first world war in the Highland Light Infantry. Both those cap badges have long since disappeared. They were great regiments with great traditions, but their disappearance was not the end of civilisation as we knew it. We have seen amalgamation and changes to cap badges in the Scottish regiments for nearly 50 years.

[Pete Wishart]

It is with great regret that we have lost some of those fantastic regiments. There are ways to do it. Our regimental system is admired across the world, and we mess with it at our peril. We were not successful in retaining the historic Scottish regiments. They were amalgamated and the Royal Regiment of Scotland appeared. We acknowledge that with much regret.

One thing that we secured, an important concession that everyone recognises as valuable, was the idea of a golden thread that would allow the past to knit to the future and allow the former regiments some sort of identity and home within the Royal Regiment of Scotland.

[Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)]

When my hon. Friend speaks about the golden thread, it is not mere history or sentiment. It is essential to recruitment and retention into those geographically recruited units, such as the Black Watch, when recruits come from that area. It is vital for recruitment and retention into units such as that.

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[Pete Wishart]

My hon. Friend is spot on. It is more than history, tradition and culture; it is about community association and links. He and I share a local regiment—the Black Watch. He and I recognise the value and importance of those community links, which are lost at our great peril.

We were not successful in preventing the amalgamation plans. We had the golden thread. Some of us were sceptical: we feared that it might be lost in the greater tapestry of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and that once it was up and running it would develop a history, tradition and momentum of its own. There was also a very great and real fear that some future Government and new Secretary of State for Defence would come along and decide that the golden thread was not worth keeping and do away with it in a new defence review. We have come close to that in the past few weeks.

We have heard all sorts of remarks from the Defence Secretary. He tried to suggest that the golden thread was not valuable or important and that things such as names, cap badges and other insignia associated with the regiments are not worth what we say they are. He said something important:

“The ancient cap badges have largely gone, they are attached in brackets to some unit names”.

With those remarks, he was attempting to say that the legacy of our former regiments was somehow a burden that needed to be addressed and conveniently disposed of in favour of mere numbers. With one stroke of a Whitehall pen, these famous names would cease to exist and be no more.

I do not think that the Defence Secretary understood or appreciated the attachment that we have to our local regiments in Scotland, but after the furore of the past few weeks, he kens noo, as we say in Perthshire. The proposition that the names, cap badges and insignia should be done away with has been received with overwhelming hostility by every sector in the defence community.

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

It is the same in Angus, which has a strong attachment to the Black Watch. It is about not only the current members of the regiment, but about thousands of my constituents who have family connections with the regiments that they hold very dear. Part of the thread that ties our regiments to our community is threatened.

[Pete Wishart]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I cannot remember the number of veterans we have in Scotland, but it was revealed recently—somewhere in the region of 80,000. There are certainly substantial numbers—all of them determined to protect their former ancient regiments, and quite right too. He is right: the regiments bring history, tradition and culture into the new regiment, and that must be worth maintaining.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is also about national identity? In Wales, we face potentially losing the 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards, which recruits, almost uniformly, from Wales and the borders. A regiment’s national identity is also important in giving a coherent community and regional identity.

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[Pete Wishart]

The hon. Lady is correct; there is national identity. The Scottish regiments are called “the Jocks”—it is an affectionate, not demeaning, term. Maintaining national identity within the regiments is important and we must hold on to it.

My local battalion—my Scottish-raised unit—is the Black Watch. The regimental headquarters are in my constituency in Perth. They are currently being developed, Ms Dorries, and I am sure that you would like to know that we will have a fantastic new museum. Come up and visit us. It is a magnificent place.

The Black Watch has just returned from its tour of duty in Afghanistan. Thankfully, this time round, there were no fatalities or casualties, and we are all grateful for that. When the Black Watch returns to Scotland, all sorts of homecoming parades are organised across the recruiting area. There were parades in Dundee, Forfar, Kirkcaldy in Fife and, of course, a huge one in Perth. The streets were thronged. Hundreds of people turned up to show their admiration and respect for the Black Watch, which had come back safely. We organised a civic reception for it in the evening; I will not tell you what happened after that, Ms Dorries, but I will just say that it was a particularly good evening.

There is a connection between the people of Tayside and Fife and the Black Watch. It is an important and cherished connection that must be maintained. The Black Watch was raised in Aberfeldy in my constituency on the banks of the Tay in 1740 to keep watch on the lawless highlands. Thankfully, it no longer has to fulfil that task—I could refer to the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr Kennedy)—but it had an important task in those days.

It must have been in 2005, when the Black Watch was amalgamated into the new regiment of Scotland, that there was a march through Aberfeldy. It came to the fantastic Black Watch memorial—a kilted soldier looking down on the very place that the regiment was mustered. I remember speaking to an infantryman that day who had served in the Black Watch many decades ago. He gave me the clearest understanding of what it is all about. He said that it is not about Queen and country, important though they are, but about your pals—the pals who you have shared the same town with; the pals who you might have gone to school with; and the pals who you know you can rely on when the going gets tough.

That is the greatest ever description and explanation of why the regimental system works, and it cannot be put any clearer than that. That day, back in 2005, was very poignant. I remember seeing brave serving soldiers crying because it was the end of the Black Watch as an existing regiment.

I have never been a soldier and neither has the Minister. The most dangerous thing that I have ever faced was a sea of excitable fans when I was a rock musician. Listening to the testament of former soldiers and seeing what they have been through is a very important lesson.

I do not need to tell the Minister that these suggestions and proposals have been met with the most incredible hostility and opposition. According to The Sunday Times, even the Prime Minister is opposed to them. What we need to hear from the Minister today is absolute clarification on the matter. When the hon. Member for Dundee West (Jim McGovern) raised a question in the House, all we got was total equivocation from the Prime Minister. We need a clear answer. When the Minister gets to his feet, he must say without any equivocation that regimental names will continue to exist within the Royal Regiment of Scotland and that there will be no diminishing of the golden thread. In fact, he could say, “We value the golden thread; it is important and instead of diminishing it, we will enhance and develop it.”

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and congratulate him on securing this debate. I am also proud to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. Regarding the Black Watch, my mother and sister are today attending a ceremony at the Black Watch memorial at Powrie Brae, just outside Dundee. The hon. Gentleman mentions the British regimental system—and he did say “British”—but given his party’s aspirations, would a Black Watch still exist?

[Pete Wishart]

Without any shadow of a doubt it would continue to exist. We have a firm, clear commitment that the existing battalions will be not only maintained but developed. [Interruption.] If it is an independent Scotland, the battalions are unlikely to be British, but they will be maintained and continued.

[Mrs Moon]

rose—

[Pete Wishart]

I have very little time, so I will take a quick intervention.

[Mrs Moon]

Everything the hon. Gentleman has said in relation to the golden thread applies also in Wales. There have been suggestions that a political decision will be made not to remove the Scottish regiments for fear of influencing the devolution debate. The reverberations of that in Wales would be tremendous. Some 9% of the British Army are recruited in Wales from 3% of the population. I am talking about some 10,000 people.

[Pete Wishart]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. It is good to see that the cause of Scottish independence is securing support and could have an influence on the recruitment of units in Wales.

I hope the Minister will clarify some matters for us today, because that is the intention of this debate. It is unfortunate that the Secretary of State himself is not here today, but I appreciate and respect the fact that we have the Minister here. In even the darkest days of the amalgamation debates of 2004, Geoff Hoon always turned up. He always took the flak and got incredible respect for that. We really needed to have the Secretary of State here today to address our points unequivocally and end this damaging uncertainty.

There has been a suggestion, which has a degree of credibility, that this debate on our names and badges is a smokescreen and masks the Government’s true intention, which is to get on with the job of brutally decimating the Scottish defence footprint.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend mentions the defence footprint. He will be aware that Scotland contributes about £3.3 billion to the defence pot, but only gets back about £2 billion of the spend.

[Pete Wishart]

Those are the points that I want to make. Securing this regimental identity is important, but so too are the boots on the ground. There is this multi-billion pound spending gap between what the taxpayers in Scotland contribute to the Ministry of Defence and what is actually spent on defence in Scotland. I want the Minister to respond to some of this.

All we have left are four regiments in the British Army from the Scotland units. We have the Royal Regiment of Scotland with its five regular battalions and two territorial battalions. There are the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, Scotland’s only remaining cavalry regiment, the Scots Guards and the 19th Regiment Royal Artillery, the Highland Gunners. We lost the 40th Regiment Royal Artillery, the Lowland Gunners, a few weeks ago. We now have only 11,000 service personnel in the Scottish infantry, which is fewer than in Ireland. The Government should be ashamed of that.

Moreover, we have seen a further 600 jobs cut in Scotland. We were grateful to the then Defence Secretary, the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), for conceding to the Scottish Affairs Committee that between 2000 and 2010, the total reduction in service jobs in the UK was 11.6%, and that the reduction in Scotland was a massive 27.9%. That disproportionate cut is incredible. It is equivalent to 10,500 defence jobs and a £5.6 billion underspend in Scotland.

Only four of the 148 major regular Army units are based in Scotland. There is massive under-representation not only in unit numbers but in Army capabilities. At present, there are no regular artillery units, no regular signals units, no regular logistics units, no regular engineering units, no intelligence or special forces and little or no presence of combat services.

On top of that, we have the ridiculous situation, outlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), in which we contribute some £3.3 billion to the defence pot and only secure £2 billion in return. There is a structural multi-billion-pound defence underspend in Scotland, disproportionate base closures and disproportionate cuts to service personnel and to Scottish regiments and battalions.

As all that is happening, we learn that the MOD has given the go-ahead to spend £350 million on designs for the next generation of Trident. Talk about skewed priorities! Spending £350 million on a weapon of mass destruction that will never be used while the regular units are being undermined, diminished and under-resourced shows us everything about the Government’s priorities.

The Scottish people will have a choice to make. They can continue to go down this particular road of underspend and of diminishing the Scottish Army footprint and resource, or they can decide that these decisions can be made in Scotland—by the Scottish people, for the Scottish people. That is the choice they will be presented with in 2014 when we have the independence referendum. I am absolutely certain and confident that when they are presented with information such as this, with the run-down of our regimental units and resources, the Scottish people will make the right choice and we will determine these issues in our own country.

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[Nick Harvey]

Let me say that I fully recognise—as do the Government—the power of that heritage, and the strength of the identity that derives from cap badges, and to think otherwise is to completely misunderstand the piece of work that is being carried out. I will come specifically to one of the questions that the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire put to me. What we are looking at is the future structure of the Army. If it serves to give him any reassurance, I will say that there is no intention as part of that work on Army restructuring to remove from the battalions of the Royal Regiment of Scotland the historic names that form such an important part of their heritage.

[Pete Wishart]

I am very grateful to the Minister for that, because it is a very important statement. Is there anybody within the Royal Regiment of Scotland or within the British Army who is agitating to have such types of insignia—the names and the cap badges—removed? Is there anybody who is asking for that and, if so, who are they?

[Nick Harvey]

I am not aware of anybody agitating to that end. Removing such insignia does not form part of the restructuring work; it is not one of the things that we are considering. We have a great respect for these issues of historical heritage. In the Royal Regiment of Scotland in particular, the historic names bring with them a great tradition that is respected around the world, and not only in Scotland or the rest of the UK. I am very sympathetic to the points about heritage that the hon. Gentleman has made in this debate.