Oral Answers to Questions

Perran Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alex Barros-Curtis (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

8. What steps he is taking to improve energy security.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

12. What steps he is taking to improve energy security.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Ed Miliband)]

Last Friday, we published our landmark clean power action plan, which sets out the route towards our world-leading 2030 clean power mission, including wholesale reform of the grid and planning to make it happen. This is the route to getting off the rollercoaster of fossil fuel markets and delivering energy security, lower bills and good jobs for the British people, as well as tackling the climate crisis.

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend asks a really important question. The whole clean power plan is about benefiting all four nations of the United Kingdom, including Wales, and we work closely with the Welsh Government on these issues. Before this Labour Government came to office, they were actually trailblazers on how we could have publicly owned generation, and that is one of the things that we and GB Energy are working with them on.

[Perran Moon]

Meur ras, ha myttin da, Mr Speaker. We have seen the terrible consequences for households of fossil fuel energy insecurity, and we cannot allow this to happen with the transition to renewables. However, to achieve our net zero goals, we will have to see a massive increase in demand for critical minerals such as tin and lithium, much of the supply and processing of which will be dominated by economically bad actors. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how the Government will be mitigating this clear and present danger?

[Ed Miliband]

I very much enjoyed my trip to my hon. Friend’s constituency before the general election. He is an incredibly powerful advocate for the way his area can source some of the critical minerals we need, including lithium, and he is right about this. The concentration of supply chains, including critical minerals, has taken a generation to arrive, but we must unwind it, and it is one of the many things we are working on as a Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ed Miliband]

We will look at the scheme in the spending review. I believe that it is important not just to Scotland but to the whole UK, but I want to level with the hon. Gentleman and, indeed, the House: it requires significant financial resources. We found the resources for track 1 of carbon capture, usage and storage and we want to find the resources for track 2, but that, as I have said, will be part of the spending review.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

T9. In the Government’s policy paper “Clean Power 2030 Action Plan”, floating offshore wind was labelled a key emerging technology, and developments were promised for future rounds of contracts for difference. Will the Minister please consider going further, and geographically ringfencing contracts for difference funding, to ensure that the massive potential of projects such as floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea is unlocked?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Michael Shanks)]

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that offshore wind, especially floating offshore wind, will play a critical role in our pathway to clean power. We will consider any option to ensure that we get many “test and demonstrate” projects through to delivery, and we will say more in coming weeks about what the next round of contracts for difference will look like.

Floating Offshore Wind: Celtic Sea

Perran Moon Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Westminster Hall

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Efford. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham) on securing this debate on floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mid and South Pembrokeshire (Henry Tufnell) for his passionate words.

My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth identified the opportunity and the challenge at hand, and I am pleased to complement the framework that she set out. I will emphasise the cross-cutting issue of skills, and the importance, right across Cornwall, of developing Falmouth port. The development of floating offshore wind technology in the Celtic sea represents not just a renewable energy opportunity, but a chance to transform Cornwall’s economy and establish the UK as a global leader in clean energy.

In terms of the share of renewables in our total energy mix, fixed offshore wind, supported by contracts for difference, which my hon. Friend the Member for Mid and South Pembrokeshire mentioned, has been and will continue to be crucial, as the recent NESO report pointed out. The UK has been able to capture jobs in the development, operation and maintenance phases of the fixed offshore wind supply chain, but not in the capital phase, such as manufacturing and installation. Most of the parts the UK uses are deployed from mainland European ports, using imported components. Despite the successful roll-out of fixed offshore turbines, we can learn from these issues, as floating offshore wind represents the next generation of technology out in the Celtic sea.

In 2023, Tim Pick from the Clean Power 2030 Advisory Commission published an independent report on offshore wind, in which he highlighted the case of Kincardine floating offshore wind farm. I am taking the debate from the Celtic sea up to Scotland because the report describes how the foundations for new floating offshore wind structures were made in Spain, at great expense, taken to Rotterdam for assembly, using locally sourced components to keep down costs, and finally towed to Scotland and installed. That is indicative of the offshore supply chain, and it means that fixed offshore wind has not captured as many jobs in the UK as it could do.

The Celtic sea floating offshore wind sector has the potential to create about 5,300 jobs across Cornwall, the south-west of England and, yes, Pembrokeshire in south Wales. There remains a real risk that we will not grasp the potential by building up the local workforce. We need to demonstrate that young people and skilled workers do not need to migrate from Cornwall for well-paid employment opportunities in the green economy.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Mid and South Pembrokeshire said, floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea is a relatively nascent industry, which means that its skills and workforce need to be supported, planned and nurtured. If we do not do this, the industry will not be able to recruit the staff needed for these vocational and technical skills.

A reactive, short-term approach to upskilling will be inadequate. We need to look at a long-term strategic approach to workforce development, one that focuses on clear, sustainable career pathways, such as floating platforms assembly, welding and marine licence development. Those are just a few examples of the strong pipeline of talent needed for the floating offshore wind sector and the skills required to populate the vacancies in the supply chain. I am pleased it was announced this week that the Blue Abyss facility near Newquay has received match funding from the Crown Estate’s supply chain accelerator fund.

To make this vision a reality, collaboration is key. We need a collective effort to build workforce capacity in preparation for the opportunity presented by this new sector. Every stakeholder has a role to play, from individual learners engaged in skills training to schools, further education colleges, higher education institutions, independent training providers and the private sector and future employers.

There are several examples in Cornwall, most notably the University of Exeter’s Penryn campus, which hosts the largest number of top 10 climate change scientists in the world and produces world-leading courses. There are apprenticeships at Truro and Penwith college and vocational opportunities at Falmouth marine school and Cornwall college in Camborne and Redruth, which is barely one mile away from South Crofty tin mine, which would be a major beneficiary of a development of Falmouth port.

We know there are structural imbalances when it comes to qualifications. According to Skills England, 38% of people in Cornwall have level 4 qualifications or above, compared with 61% in London. The new growth and skills levy, which will enable employers to access a broader range of high-quality training offers, will be fundamental if applied to this sector. Skills England will act as a vital bridge between industrial strategy, training providers and businesses.

I turn briefly to Falmouth port and the infrastructure in relation to the Celtic sea. As my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth said, we must regenerate Falmouth port to enable the roll-out of floating offshore wind. We must ensure that it becomes a key hub for operations and maintenance. To have the best opportunity to achieve economic growth and increase productivity, we need to build up our supply chain. As turbines increase in size with the proliferation of floating offshore wind, there is a need for larger-scale and better-equipped port facilities in general. That should be partnered with local manufacturing.

Floating offshore wind sub-structures alone can measure up to 80 metres across and weigh thousands of tonnes, with the turbines themselves expected to reach as high as 300 metres. Ports need adequate quays, crane capacity and lay-down space to accommodate these vast engineering structures, so where better to develop than the third-deepest natural harbour in the world at Falmouth?

To echo comments by my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth, we need the Crown Estate to lease more projects in the Celtic sea and we need to ringfence the funding for the Celtic sea at the next auction round. We must work towards building up the capacity at Falmouth port. If we are to realise a just transition, we must ensure that it delivers as much opportunity for UK businesses and communities as possible. Successive Governments have failed to deliver the benefits to communities. The Cornish Celtic tiger can drive the world-leading deployment of floating offshore wind at commercial scale and sow the seed for a cluster of expertise and experience right across the sector.

Electricity Grid Upgrades

Perran Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

My right hon. Friend is completely right. It affects other colleagues, including some present here today representing, for example, Lincolnshire. We know that there are concerns in north Wales, and on the east coast of Scotland in the area represented by my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie), who is representing the Opposition Front Bench. This is a very widespread problem.

Undergrounding HVDC cables is not only technically viable, but the most sensible and sustainable solution for the future of our energy network—that is, if we cannot have it offshore. I acknowledge that quite a lot is going offshore, but it rubs salt in the wound that other areas, from Scotland to north-east England, have the luxury of offshore schemes, but we in East Anglia do not. Our countryside is not worth the investment.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

It is interesting to hear the hon. Member talk about delays and the issues with floating offshore wind. Does he agree that we should look at why we have such delays? After 14 years of Conservative Government, one might have thought that many of the challenges would already have been dealt with. Does he acknowledge that many of the current issues are because of a lack of action over the last 14 years?

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

I accept that the present Government have inherited a planning system and a philosophy of upgrading the national grid that is out of date.

When we were in Government, we were very slow to recognise that such a big, strategic upgrade needed a proper strategy. We started moving towards holistic network design. We commissioned a report from Charles Banner KC to look at streamlining the planning process—I will come on to putting that streamlining in place—and I very much welcome that the Government have commissioned a spatial review of the entire network, which should have been done years ago. I think we were blind to the failings of the structure inherited from the Electricity Act 1989; we should have moved much sooner.

That report should make it easier for the Government to change the out-of-date policy of a presumption in favour of pylons, which we said in our manifesto that we would review. I am very happy for the Minister to blame the previous Government for the difficulties he is facing and to change the policy accordingly, but it will be very odd if he comes to the Dispatch Box to defend what the previous Government were doing, after what the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon) just said—but I suspect that that is what he will do.

I put this issue forward in a bipartisan manner. We should all be able to agree that the great grid upgrade is not going fast enough, and that we need to streamline the planning process and speed up delivery. However, we also need to mend our ideas about how we deliver it, because as I have said, undergrounding high voltage direct current cables is not only technically viable, but the most sensible and sustainable solution for the future of our entire energy network.

Oral Answers to Questions

Perran Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Michael Shanks]

Clearly I cannot speak for National Grid but I can speak for this Government and in four months we have moved as quickly as possible on what a community benefit scheme will look like for network infrastructure as well as for generation projects. The Conservative party had 14 years to put in place a different scheme and did not; in four months we are moving as quickly as we can.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

As Ministers know, the European powerhouse of critical minerals is Cornwall, including its vast quantities of lithium, essential for our transition away from fossil fuels. Will the Ministers agree with the industry’s call for a target of 50,000 tonnes of lithium?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and look forward to meeting him shortly to talk about tin among other things. We are looking at our critical minerals strategy; there is a big role to play in his neck of the woods for lithium and tin, and we will be pushing that as hard as we can.

Great British Energy Bill

Perran Moon Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 29th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Champion]

I appreciate that my hon. Friend has put that on the record. I think that what we need to be doing is reducing our dependency—some might say “stranglehold”—on China for some of our most critical resources.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

I agree with my hon. Friend about China. Does she agree with me that we should be looking at domestic production of critical minerals such as tin, lithium, tungsten and manganese? In Cornwall we have plenty, and we are very hopeful that the Bill will support the opportunities that they offer.

[Sarah Champion]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend, and that, to my mind, is what GB Energy should be doing. It is using its purchasing power around the world to increase human rights and improve working conditions, for example, but it also needs to be supporting British-based businesses, because our businesses need that support more than ever before. What we need to be doing is applying pressure on all our trading partners around the world, not just China, to improve standards. There are allegations of child labour in cobalt mining for EV batteries in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and there is evidence of labour exploitation in nickel processing in Indonesia.

With those examples in mind, I ask the House a simple question: do we turn a blind eye to modern slavery in our energy supply chains, or do we lead the way with a just transition? As the Chancellor outlined in her conference speech, this Government are

“Calling time on the days when government stood back…and turned a blind eye to where things are made and who makes them.”

It is vital that we follow up her words with real, meaningful action, because, as things currently stand, we are a global outlier. In 2021 the United States enacted the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, banning the importation of products from the Uyghur region, including shipments of solar panels with connections to Xinjiang. That has been highly effective, with the market responding with new, ethical supply chains. Canada and Mexico have followed suit with similar regulations, and this year the European Union passed the corporate sustainability due diligence directive, which will ensure that companies prevent and address the adverse human rights impacts of their actions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson]

As I have just said, it cannot be done. What I have said is that a Government should not make a promise if they believe that when the Bill in question is scrutinised, that promise will not be fulfilled—especially here, when it is known that the policy will cost jobs, and unions have already made that point.

I have some sympathy with the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Brighton Pavilion (Siân Berry) in respect of the impacts on nature. I come from one of the most beautiful parts of the United Kingdom—the Antrim coast is famous for tourism—and I am already seeing the impact of net zero policies on the landscape and the flora and fauna of the Antrim plateau. When I look out of my window in the morning, there is the wind farm that has been erected on top of the plateau, which involved stripping off 3 metres of peat and destroying a bird habitat; every year these windmills chew up birds and bats. I have already mentioned the admission that 17 million trees had been cut down in Scottish forests, and the hon. Member for Brighton Pavilion was unfortunate to mention the Sperrins, another beautiful part of Northern Ireland of which I have some knowledge and which has been totally despoiled by hundreds of windmills.

Let us not pretend, then, that the policy of renewables is a green, clean policy, because it is not. Let us be honest: any energy production will require the extraction of fuels and materials from the earth, and that in itself will be destructive, so let us not describe it as nature-friendly or green. Let us just accept that what we need if we are to bring about economic growth and reduce the cost of living for our constituents is the cheapest, most available fuel that we can have. That will drive economic growth and decrease the cost of living, and that is the kind of energy policy that the Government ought to be following.

[Perran Moon]

The Conservatives are generally adamant that there very are few Labour Members with any business experience, so having spent more than 30 years in business—latterly in electric vehicle charging infrastructure—I was reassured to learn while listening to the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Dr Mullan) that there is at least one Conservative who is not a renewable-energy Luddite, and I am glad to see him back in his place. I wish that the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) would spend a bit of time understanding a little more about geothermal energy, which does not require the wind to blow or the sun to shine.

I was honoured to be part of the Committee considering the Great British Energy Bill, a core plank of this Government’s policy programme whose benefits will be felt in every corner of the UK, including my own constituency of Camborne, Redruth and Hayle. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and the Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen (Michael Shanks), for their diligent work on and defence of this transformational Bill. Let me also put on record my thanks not just to my right hon. and hon. Friends who sat on the Committee, but to other Members on both sides of the House who contributed to it.

I will refer to the amendments. In Committee we heard from experts and stakeholders, and we extensively debated the issues, from oversight to community benefit. Opposition Members who were on the Committee know that, because they were there. As I said when I made my maiden speech on Second Reading, my focus will be on using the opportunities of this Bill to unleash the Cornish Celtic tiger.

Renewable energy—onshore wind, offshore wind, geothermal, tidal and solar—and critical minerals such as tin, lithium, tungsten and manganese are fundamental for our transition away from fossil fuels. There is no silver bullet; we need a mix of renewable energy, which will form part of our policy going forward. That is what GB Energy will give us the opportunity to do.

There are few areas of the UK where there is a greater distillation of renewable energy and critical mineral opportunities than in Cornwall. I refer to the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) about human rights and the opportunity to produce domestically an awful lot of the energy and the critical minerals that we currently import from places such as China, Indonesia, Australia and South America. As a result, there are extremely high expectations in Cornwall for local jobs in industries that support community initiatives and domestic supply chains in one of the most deprived areas of northern Europe.

Given the distillation of raw materials and natural resources in Cornwall, the fact that the new Centre for Critical Minerals, which will accelerate the move towards a green economy, opened very recently in Cornwall, and the fact that Exeter University, which has a campus in Penryn, has the largest number of top-100 climate scientists in the world, it will not come as a surprise to the Minister that I ask him to consider opening a satellite office for Great British Energy in Cornwall. They may not want it in Aberdeen, but we want it in Cornwall.

I support the Bill as it is. We discussed the amendments in Committee, and I look forward to the opportunities that this Bill will bring to the people of Camborne, Redruth and Hayle.

Renewable Energy: Cornwall

Perran Moon Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jayne Kirkham]

I thank the hon. Member. That is true particularly around standards on homes, where our local solutions for ground source heating could have been made more of in the past and have obviously now been delayed for that reason.

The feed-in tariffs introduced by the previous Labour Government were reduced several times by the last Government and then finally ended in 2019. Despite that, the community energy sector is resilient and has continued to grow. In my constituency, Ladock won the low carbon communities challenge, and Low Carbon Ladock was given £500,000 under one of the last Governments, which it invested in solar panels on homes, biomass boilers, and ground-source and air-source heat systems. It has been able to put the profits into things for the community, such as safer school crossings, playing fields and more renewables.

The current state of play in Cornwall is that there are 104 wind turbines, 88 solar projects and two operational geothermal sites. Twenty-two projects have been granted planning permission in 2023-24 to date, including one geothermal, one onshore wind, eight battery and 12 solar photovoltaic projects. A further 22 projects have submitted planning applications in 2023-24, three of which are geothermal, four onshore wind, six battery and nine solar.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the time to act in Cornwall is right now? We have the US State Department, which is very interested in our renewable opportunities, and representatives from France coming to Cornwall. It would be a crying shame if our Government did not use the advantages available to make Cornwall a renewable energies cluster.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Kerry McCarthy)]

It is always a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms Vaz. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham) for securing this debate and the other Members for their contributions. It is good to see a clean sweep of new MPs in Cornwall, although my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) is a familiar face from days gone by. The passion of hon. Members for the region shines through, and all six MPs are brilliant advocates for Cornwall’s sheer potential.

I want to note the recent letter from the four Labour MPs in Cornwall to the Minister for Industry, the hon. Member for Croydon West (Sarah Jones), concerning the need for investment in the county. As the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth mentioned, the Minister for Industry and the Secretary of State for Business and Trade have visited the region recently. I know that both are aware of the county’s incredible potential for economic and industrial growth. I understand that the four MPs will be meeting my colleague, the Minister for Industry, very soon to discuss the issues raised in the letter.

My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth will be aware that one of the Prime Minister’s five missions for national renewal is making Britain a clean energy superpower, including delivering clean power by 2030 and accelerating to net zero. As has been mentioned, we have wasted no time in getting started. Within our first 100 days in government, we lifted the onshore wind ban in England, consented to more nationally significant solar projects than had been consented to in the past 14 years, and delivered the most successful renewables auction in British history. Now we are busy setting up Great British Energy, which will drive clean energy deployment, creating jobs, boosting energy independence and ensuring that UK taxpayers, bill payers and communities reap the benefits of clean, secure, home-grown energy. As we heard, Cornwall has a vital role to play in that clean energy mission, and indeed our mission to secure economic growth.

Cornwall may be primarily known as a tourist destination these days, but it has a proud industrial past. It was once known as the mining capital of the world, with tin mining and clay, and was where Richard Trevithick invented the high-pressured steam engine. As much as tourism is welcomed in Cornwall, we know that it puts pressure on the local infrastructure and economy, particularly the housing supply, which then has a knock-on effect on public services in the area.

From meeting local businesses in Cornwall when I went down with the now Chief Secretary to the Treasury last year, I know that there is excitement about the opportunities offered by Cornwall’s huge industrial potential from wind, geothermal, lithium and more. Great work is already being done through the continuing development of a local area energy plan in Cornwall and Isles of Scilly, and the Government are doing what they can to support the region too. Last September, three geothermal projects, all located in Cornwall, were successful in our contracts for difference auction for the first time, with contracts totalling 12 MW of generation. As part of my visit to Cornwall last year, I also went to see some of the exciting work that the Eden Project is doing on geothermal.

Critical minerals have been mentioned as an important area for future industrial development. Cornwall has some of the largest critical mineral deposits, with research showing that the county alone could meet more than half the UK’s 2030 demand for lithium, which is an essential part of the electric vehicle battery supply chain. As we transition to a renewables-based economy, the demand for critical minerals will only grow, and I note the concerns that have been raised about current sourcing and the need to diversify supply. Indeed, Cornwall is home to at least three of the 18 critical minerals, and I hope that local MPs, in the meeting with my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry, can further discuss how we can take advantage of all that Cornwall has to offer on that front.

The county is perfectly placed to take advantage because of its strong mining heritage—I was interested to hear what my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth said about the potential for reopening tin mines—as well as a growing supply chain, skilled workforce and supportive local government. It has the support of national Government too. In 2023, the UK Infrastructure Bank’s first equity deal was an equity investment of approximately £24 million to support Cornish Lithium in the development of the UK’s critical minerals supply chain.

One of the most exciting areas with huge potential is the floating offshore wind that my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth talked about, which would enable turbines to be set up where the seabed is too deep for traditional fixed-bottom turbines. A new report from the floating offshore wind taskforce says that the UK’s floating wind industry will be able to support 97,000 jobs by 2050, contributing £47 billion to our economy, and we want Cornwall to have a proper stake in that via the Celtic sea.

I reassure Members present that we want to do all we can to support floating wind infrastructure and supply chains to develop the Celtic sea, to ensure that we get the floating wind pipeline built and bring jobs and growth to the area. As part of leasing round 5, the Crown Estate has launched a £10 million supply chain accelerator fund, focused on capturing some of the economic opportunities identified by the Celtic sea blueprint. A further £40 million has been earmarked, which could be deployed on further opportunities nationally.

More broadly speaking, Members present will know that last week, the Chancellor announced that the UK Infrastructure Bank is becoming the national wealth fund. Capitalised with £27.8 billion, it will have additional financial capacity and an enhanced risk budget, as well as an expanded remit beyond infrastructure in support of the Government’s industrial strategy. At least £5.8 billion of the national wealth fund’s capital will focus on priority sectors, including ports infrastructure, which I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth will be pleased to hear.

Also last week, we published in a Green Paper our vision for a modern industrial strategy—Invest 2035. That is a credible 10-year plan to deliver the certainty and stability that businesses need to invest in high-growth sectors. It will help us create a pro-business environment and support high-potential clusters across the country. It will channel support to eight growth-driving sectors, including clean energy industries, and it will support those sectors to create high-quality, well paid jobs across the country, backed by employment rights fit for a modern economy.

If the plan is to be a success, it needs to be designed and implemented in lockstep with local and regional leaders. That is particularly important in places such as Cornwall, where we are looking at reindustrialisation to an extent, rather than building on current industrial clusters. We will explore how to build on existing place-based initiatives, how to create the best pro-business environment possible in city regions and high-potential clusters, and how to identify, select and intervene in industrial sites to make them magnets for globally mobile investment.

As I said, unlocking Cornwall’s potential is slightly different from going into other areas. That is absolutely key. Planning was mentioned; we must undo some of the blockages in the planning system. In relation to the grid, I very much remember, from when I visited, the knock-on impact of the fact that the transmission line goes only as far as Indian Queens. Until we create the grid infrastructure to cover the right areas and provide sufficient capacity, we cannot deliver on Cornwall’s potential. I think that one of the things holding the Eden Project back with its geothermal work was that it could not get that broader grid connection. The former chief executive of the Climate Change Committee, Chris Stark, has been put in charge of the mission board, and one of his key tasks is to bring in a more strategic approach to grid planning, speed it up and stop those blockages that mean that projects just do not get off the ground because they are stuck in that system.

Skills are also a very important issue, on which I hope we can have continued engagement. I think I am due to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth next week to follow up on some of these issues. I want to reassure her and colleagues that our doors are always open, in terms of discussing these things, and I will return to my original point that I share the excitement that Cornwall has huge potential. I think we want a more balanced economy—

[Perran Moon]

Looking at Cornwall, we have mentioned floating offshore wind, onshore wind, geothermal, tidal, solar, lithium, tin and manganese. Can the Minister name anywhere else in the UK where there is such a distillation of critical minerals and renewable energy opportunities? I am very excited by what she said about the cluster concept. Would not Cornwall be an ideal place to be an official cluster for renewables and critical minerals?

[Kerry McCarthy]

I am not sure that we quite have an official badge of cluster; we just have clusters, but yes, I think Cornwall is different in terms of the geography and the current use of the land and we have to approach it in a sensitive way, and one in which we might not have to approach areas that currently are perhaps transitioning from traditional fossil fuel industries to the clean industries of the future. This area is bringing something that, to an extent, is genuinely buried in the land—the industrial heritage there. It has so much potential. The question is how we can work across Departments, starting with my own, DESNZ, but also bringing in other Departments that can unlock that potential. I am sure that the brilliant advocates that there are in the region will all be pushing, and I really hope that we can see swift progress, because clean power by 2030 is such an important part of the Government’s mission and I do not think we can do it without Cornwall playing its part.

Question put and agreed to.

Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting)

Perran Moon Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 15th October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Stephen Flynn]

No.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

I am interested in the right hon. Gentleman’s premise. If Scotland is granted this amendment, surely the Welsh and the Cornish—in Cornwall we have onshore wind, offshore wind, geothermal, tidal, solar, tin and lithium, which are all critical to the UK’s move away from fossil fuels—will demand the same thing. The point is that it is GB Energy, not “Scotland Energy”.

[Stephen Flynn]

Would the hon. Gentleman like to clarify to the Committee whether he has just equated the nation of Scotland to Cornwall?

[Perran Moon]

Under national minority status—well, the right hon. Gentleman can draw his own conclusion.

[Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)]

I question whether amendment 3 would be beneficial to Scotland or give Scotland a competitive advantage, as has been claimed. I think it is deeply contrary to Scotland’s interests.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth has pointed out, we are not in separate energy markets. We live in one energy market, and that would not change even if we were divided into separate states, as Cornwall might well one day become. The transmission of energy does not respect borders. It is pretty obvious that it would make no sense to invest only in the national grid north of Berwick, while someone else invested in the national grid south of Berwick.

In my constituency of Na h-Eileanan an Iar, we have the glaring anomaly that the energy companies of other states—Norway, Ireland, France—are investing in renewable generation, but there is no British state energy company. That is what I hope will come into being under the Bill. At one time we had the British National Oil Company, but that fell when Mrs Thatcher came to power—on the back of SNP votes, of course.

The fact that other state energy companies are investing in my constituency points to another glaring inconsistency in the amendment. If we followed its principle, Ireland would invest only in Ireland, France only in France and Norway only in Norway, but we know that that is not how things work. Norway’s sovereign wealth fund does not just invest in Norway; it makes global investments. It is not built just on narrow investment or narrow nationalism within its own borders; Statoil, now Equinor, invests globally. I hope that in due course GB Energy will invest globally so that the profits serve every corner of the United Kingdom, not just one.

I can understand why the right hon. Member for Aberdeen South wants to talk just about hypothetical money and future money. As the shadow Minister pointed out, the Scottish Government have already squandered the money that they raised from renewables. The Scotland licences for offshore wind farming were sold off cheaply by the right hon. Member’s colleagues in Edinburgh, although they still got 10 times more than they thought they could. Astonishingly, the SNP was ready to sell all 14 leases for just £75 million, but fortunately the Crown Estate auction in England and Wales went first and raised more than £1 billion, which gave the Scottish Government pause for thought. They called in the consultants, multiplied the figure by 10 and managed to raise £750 million, which was still too little in comparison with what could have been raised. That £750 million has been frittered away; it has not gone into any sovereign wealth fund or been used for the future benefit of public expenditure on energy infrastructure.

It is all well and good to talk about hypothetical, sealed-off, insular energy markets, but that is just not how it is or how it will be. Scotland, together with the rest of the UK, can have a huge input into GB Energy, which the Bill will set up, and we can all gain through a common effort in the benefits of its evolution.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Shanks]

I think that doubling down on the language is not helpful either, but I will come back to both those points.

I recognise the importance of the point about communities and a more strategic approach to infrastructure to ensure a balance. That is why we have commissioned the National Energy System Operator to look at the strategic spatial energy plan, which is important in how we look at energy in a strategic way. To say that communities are under siege is not the right language. This is nationally important infrastructure.

The Opposition do not support Great British Energy, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar said, Great British Energy is one mechanism whereby communities can benefit from infrastructure where they are not benefiting at the moment.

[Perran Moon]

Does the Minister agree that the people of Cornwall are ready, willing and able to take any renewable energy opportunities we possibly can?

[Michael Shanks]

My hon. Friend never misses an opportunity to mention Cornwall, but let us not relitigate our earlier argument.

There are huge opportunities. The hon. Member for Gordon and Buchan made the important point that there are certain parts of the country, particularly in the north of Scotland, where for obvious reasons there are a number of wind projects, and we need to look at the infrastructure that comes with that. We want to ensure we build the nationally important infrastructure to deal with the connections issue that the shadow Minister rightly raises, but we also need to recognise the need for cohesion in planning to make sure that there are not some of the issues that we have seen in other parts of the UK, where a number of projects have come on stream over time rather than being planned coherently.

Finally, on community involvement, the point about consent in dealings with communities is important. We want to take some of the previous Government’s work on consulting on community benefits—we will say more on this in the coming months—to make sure that there is genuine community benefit in hosting not just energy generation infrastructure, but network infrastructure, which will be critical. Nothing that we have said runs roughshod over the planning and consenting process, which will remain for communities.

Great British Energy Bill (Third sitting)

Perran Moon Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 10th October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Andrew Pakes]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for being kind to me in the first intervention that I have ever taken in this House, but I will stick to my point: that we could achieve so much more in this country. We would be having a fundamentally different conversation about insulation efficiency and renewable energy if we had not gone through the last 14 years, in which budgets were cut. There are young people in my constituency of Peterborough who could have contributed, by moving from blue-collar to green-collar jobs, if we had had a further education system that was functioning and could train them—if we had a home insulation system that had a workforce that could get out and deliver.

Whatever we say in any resolution, motion or primary legislation in this place will not be enacted unless we have a people plan that delivers for it. That is why delivering on this issue should come in a different piece of legislation, even though I have huge empathy with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

Although I entirely agree with the importance of the warm homes plan, I am getting really concerned that we are losing focus. We are looking to create a Bill that allows the scope and flexibility to ensure—I am glad the Minister mentioned this earlier—that the UK taxpayer gets the best bang for their buck. As the expert witnesses consistently testified, one of the key benefits of the Bill is that it is not overly or unnecessarily prescriptive and allows the scope to develop the strategic priorities, referred to in clause 5, that focus on ensuring that we get this right. I look forward to speaking to the Minister in due course about those priorities. GB Energy will work alongside and in partnership with the private sector, but we must avoid trying to be too prescriptive in a specific Bill focused on this area.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The hon. Gentleman is a new Member of Parliament; I have been here a little longer. Those of us who have been here longer always want to ensure that something is in statute—in law—because we parliamentarians are always a little wary of leaving it to a further document that may or may not come. We would like to see some assurances in law to ensure that whatever has been promised will actually happen. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern?

[Perran Moon]

I am absolutely delighted that the Government are already talking about the warm homes plan. We have a plan, and it is coming through; we have talked about it coming through in spring. Today we are talking about the Great British Energy Bill, and it is really important that we retain the focus on ensuring that the Bill has flexibility, so that we can see the strategic priorities delivering on GB Energy specifically.

[Michael Shanks]

The hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire has rightly and passionately outlined the scandal of people living in cold homes and poorly insulated homes. She is right that it is an absolute scandal.

Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting)

Perran Moon Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 10th October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Andrew Bowie]

I do not think so, but the creation of the company is a state intervention in the market. That is one reason we on the Conservative Benches disagree with the Bill. We think that we can drive up investment in renewables and new technologies in this country by allowing companies the freedom to invest and by creating the best environment for private investment in this country. That is what we did when we were in government. That is why we have the first to the fifth-largest offshore wind farms in the world, and that is why we cut emissions faster than any other country in the G7, at the same time as growing the economy. That is a record that I am very proud of, and I worry that this state intervention in the market will have a negative effect.

We are debating the creation of GB Energy and this Bill. As part of that, a reduction in electricity prices should be one of the strategic aims.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

The Conservative party in government—I do not know whether opinion has changed—had little regard for private businesses. On Tuesday, however, we clearly heard expert witnesses from private businesses consistently testify that one of the Bill’s key benefits is that it is not overly and unnecessarily prescriptive, so it allows the scope to develop the strategic priorities that focus on ensuring that we get this right. The amendment is completely unnecessary, because it is yet another example of being overly prescriptive, which is not what businesses asked for on Tuesday.

[Andrew Bowie]

I completely agree that we should not be overly prescriptive of business, but one of the strategic objectives in setting up this company should be to work towards a reduction in wholesale electricity prices. The Bill sets out everything else that the company will seek to do, so why not add that to the Bill as an objective for the company in the long run? I do not know why there would be any disagreement with including that objective in the Bill, given that we all agree that electricity prices and the cost of doing business are far too high in this country. Surely, therefore, GB Energy should be working towards that objective—hence I think the amendment is necessary and we have moved it today.

On the requirement on the Secretary of State to give a specific direction to GB Energy, we think that it should report its progress on the priority of reducing wholesale electricity costs to Parliament. Amendment 19 would also introduce the requirement for GB Energy to report to the Secretary of State within three months of every investment on the projected impact on wholesale energy prices over the next 10 years. It is essential that we in Parliament, Government and Great British Energy take a sufficiently long-term view of the decisions and investments that will impact wholesale electricity prices and, therefore, consumer bills and the cost to industry in the years and decades to come. Those are the reasons for our amendments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bowie]

Well, not quite. We did have an industrial strategy. We had a Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. It is not an industrial strategy. The amendment aims to establish within the strategic priorities of this company a commitment to deliver a UK-based supply chain, which is something that we sought to do while in Government, with the sustainable industry reward scheme that will launch next year with the auction round for the contracts for difference, and through other programmes and investment opportunities that we were seeking to see come to fruition. I am very glad that this Government seem to be taking the challenge in this regard just as seriously as we did.

The transition we are in just now spans our entire energy industry and incorporates the North sea and our homegrown petroleum outputs. As noted by the Climate Change Committee, we will need oil and gas for decades to come, not just as an energy baseload but as a key component in the transition and in the technologies for the transition.

In our electric vehicles and our batteries, we will need lithium. In 2023, Cornish Lithium opened Britain’s first lithium mine in Cornwall, with £53.6 million investment led by the UK Infrastructure Bank, which we established in 2021, to invest in our domestic supply chain, our clean technology supply chain and our energy future.

In our solar panels, we need silver, indium and copper. In our grid systems, we need kilometres and kilometres of copper. In fact, renewable energy will drive 45% of copper demand by 2030. Our reliance on China for low-cost, clean technology and minerals should worry us all. In 2022, we imported 64% of rare earth metals and 49% of lithium batteries from China.

[Perran Moon]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Andrew Bowie]

I would be delighted to give way to the hon. Member for Cornwall.

[Perran Moon]

The hon. Member for Camborne, Redruth and Hayle—but I take the shadow Minister’s point. As he said, it is important to consider that an awful lot of our critical minerals are imported from the other side of the world, from Australasia and China, but that in Cornwall we have massive deposits of tin, lithium and tungsten. Does he agree that one opportunity that might come from GB Energy is to expand British jobs in Cornwall and areas that are extremely deprived? In that respect, might he support GB Energy?

Great British Energy Bill (First sitting)

Perran Moon Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 8th October 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Wera Hobhouse]

Q I have one last question about the timeframes, which are very vague. The Bill states:

“The Secretary of State must prepare a statement of strategic priorities for Great British Energy.”

Do you have any idea of when we can expect that statement to be laid before Parliament?

Juergen Maier: I am not sure of the exact timings. Maybe when you get evidence from the Minister he will be able to put a time on that.

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

Q Mr Maier, you have talked about how local communities will benefit from community energy; you mentioned floating offshore wind off the east coast of the United Kingdom. Down in Cornwall, we are very close to the Celtic sea opportunity, which is between us and Wales. Could you elaborate on the benefits, particularly the social benefits, that may come from the Celtic sea development in an area like Cornwall, which is one of the most deprived in the UK?

Juergen Maier: Indeed. The earlier question was pointed at the north-east and Aberdeen, hence my response, but you are right. As a matter of fact, the two key areas where floating offshore wind will be developed are in the north-east and in the Celtic sea. From a logistics point of view, you could not put them further apart, so it is not exactly ideal—

[The Chair]

Order. We are moving outside the scope of the Bill.

Juergen Maier: Anyway, the answer to your question is the same answer that I gave for Aberdeen. There will be an HQ, a lot of the activities, project management, knowledge and engineering, but obviously when it gets to installation and port-type infrastructure work, there will be significant opportunity in Cornwall and anywhere serving the Celtic sea.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Pakes]

Q Thank you all for coming in. Could you tell us a bit more about how GB Energy might benefit from or support the ecosystem of innovation and research we have? We know the Bill is limited; we have had that discussion. I am interested in your thoughts on how what is in the Bill might stimulate the innovation and research that the three of you represent.

Marc Hedin: I think we can reflect a little bit on the role of Great British Energy here. One of the areas for innovation is around investments in less mature technologies. It is one of the roles that was highlighted in the founding statement, published in July earlier this year. There is a role for that, but I would argue that there is also a possibility for dedicated schemes to deploy capital in less mature technologies. For instance, with regards to long-duration energy storage, we had a consultation earlier this year, generally welcomed by the industry, which looked into implementing a sort of capital flow regime to promote investment into long-duration energy storage. There is a role for GB Energy here, but there are also alternative routes that are potentially less capital-intensive.

The second aspect, touched on earlier, is around supply chain. There is huge scope here for Great British Energy, where, out of all its potential roles, it may provide the best value for money. In GB, the domestic supply chain has not generally benefited that much from the high level of renewable build-out that we have seen in the past decade or so. There is a role for providing visibility to the supply chain, and implementing innovation into the supply chain more generally in the energy sector.

Ravi Gurumurthy: If you think about different barriers to innovation, I think three stand out. One is co-ordination challenges; second is the provision of certain public goods, such as ports infrastructure, which are critical to investment; and third is risk appetite. I think GB Energy can potentially address all those in different ways.

On the risk side, co-investing—particularly in the novel technologies that Marc mentioned—can accelerate that innovation. Secondly, on things such as ports infrastructure, having a body that is trying to do whatever it takes to solve some of the co-ordination issues and the dependencies on public inputs can drive that innovation.

One other thing I would mention is that Government have a role, and have increasingly played a more co-ordinated role, in driving directed R&D through the net zero panel. I think Government can be better at that, if they are more informed, and one of the things I think GB Energy will do is to give a stronger insight into the constraints and opportunities in the market, and therefore potentially inform Government’s ability to drive innovation in a smarter way.

Shaun Spiers: I obviously agree with all that. The really difficult thing about clean power by 2030 is the last 10% or 20%. It is clear that the market on its own, at the moment, will not provide that, and just adding renewables and grid will not provide it. What GB Energy provides is the potential to invest in things like pump hydropower, compressed air and new technologies that we are going to need. That is going to be essential to achieving the 2030 power decarbonisation.

[Perran Moon]

Q My question is primarily to the Green Alliance. Shaun, what difference will GB Energy make to your analysis of the UK’s progress to date to decarbonise power generation?

Shaun Spiers: It is really quite hard to see how the UK will be able to decarbonise power generation, certainly by 2030. By 2035 was really ambitious and by 2030 is even more ambitious, so you do need a vehicle of this sort to crowd in investment and to give a really clear sense of direction to overseas investors and other investors who are looking for places to put their money. This gives a huge impetus to that mission. It is easy to set targets, but unless you have a vehicle to deliver them, they are going to be impossible to achieve. GB Energy is the key vehicle. I would say it is essential.

Ravi Gurumurthy: Nesta and Boehringer co-authored a report that I was part of, which included some of the time and cost savings that we think GB Energy can deliver—for instance, the role of GB Energy as what we call the pre-developer, where the Crown Estate takes on this role of basically preparing the sites, doing the planning consents, doing the grid connection and doing the environmental surveys before having potentially a single auction process rather than the current dual auction process. We thought that would reduce the time of getting offshore wind built by two to four years. We also produced some cost savings from doing that, including some reduction in rents. We think this institution can deliver genuine improvements in terms of time and cost.

I would not just stop at the vantage point of 2030, because although I think this will make some impact on 2030, remember that we have to double electricity capacity in this country if we are going to electrify heating and transport, so the 10 years beyond 2030 are just as important. I think GB Energy is an institution for the long term, not just for the next five years.

[The Chair]

I am being reminded again that we should focus on what is in the Bill; I know we can extrapolate what might happen. Next we go to Olivia Blake.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Flynn]

Q Again, you have spoken very eloquently about the opportunities that may or may not exist under GB Energy, particularly with regard to the risk appetite that needs to be there. You have perhaps delved into some areas in relation to planning and Crown Estate; where they sit within the devolved competency of the Scottish Parliament. I will not ask you to comment on that because that would be deeply unfair, but what you and others have done is delve into the strategic priorities and what you think they could be. Do you think it is helpful or unhelpful that at this juncture we do not have a full understanding of what those strategic priorities are, given that the Bill is going through in its current form?

Shaun Spiers: I think the more that can be done to set out the strategic priorities, the better. I do not think it necessarily needs to be in the Bill. The explanatory statement and the introductions and so on I think do give a reasonably good steer on what the strategic priorities are, but obviously this body is being set up at pace. The more clarity there is on what it is going to do, the better. I would not set unreasonable expectations of a body that is being set up really quickly, with a pretty clear short-term aim of 2030 power decarbonisation and of supporting that. However, in the longer term the priorities clearly need to be set out.

Ravi Gurumurthy: The NESO will be producing its plan in October, and you have then got the next carbon budget in February, so the actual pathway to 2030 and to 2050 will start to become even clearer in the coming months. It will need to be flexible, however. There will be technologies which emerge that shift our sense of what to focus on. You need priorities, but you do need quite a lot of flexibility in this system.

Marc Hedin: I made the point, I think, at the very beginning that we need a very flexible scope because there will be challenges to the energy transition. We need room to adapt. If this vehicle is to facilitate the energy transition, we need that scope to be relatively broad. I did mention a couple of safeguards, more like accountability, and I think that is still reasonable to ask. However, in terms of strategic priorities, I think the scope is broad enough and makes sense.

[Perran Moon]

Q As a proud Cornishman, I am very excited about the reopening of our tin mines and our lithium mines. I was very pleased to hear you mention critical minerals. Can you elaborate a little on how you think GB Energy can support the UK’s domestic critical minerals industry?

Shaun Spiers: By investing in it. It is more a question of the recycling, because there is a big recycling industry elsewhere. When the UK was the pioneer in offshore wind, it was easy to import critical raw materials and then not bother about reusing them and just import more. As the Foreign Secretary was talking about in his speech at Kew, there are now real concerns about the shortage of critical raw materials across the world. Because they are needed for so many technologies, and so many technologies that are essential to the transition, we need a plan for the transition that includes recycling plants. Lithium mining in Cornwall is great, but we also need not be exporting our critical raw materials to be repurposed elsewhere, and then reimporting the repurposed ones. There are 37 recycling plants in the EU, while in China there were 61 waste lithium battery recycling and processing companies two years ago, and it is a growing industry. It has not grown in the UK, it has not had attention, and I think that if GB Energy is committed to long-term energy security, which it is, then it could play a part in getting that industry going in the UK.

[The Chair]

We are straying quite far from the scope of the Bill. It is an interesting discussion, and it could carry on offline afterwards, but it is not within the scope of this Bill. Are there any more questions? If there are no further questions from Committee members, I thank the witnesses for their evidence.

Examination of Witnesses

Dan McGrail and Adam Berman gave evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine Fookes]

Q It is good to see you both. You were not here for the earlier sessions, but there were a lot of questions about whether there is enough detail in the Bill. Before I was an MP, I used to be the CEO of a charity; if the objects of that charity had gone into an incredible amount of detail telling me exactly what to do, it would have been very difficult 10 years down the line, when I joined the charity, to pivot and do what we did. I think you are absolutely right: we are hearing from every single witness that the Bill needs to be general enough to allow the business plan to be developed by the experts running the company. You are chiming with everyone else, which is interesting and good.

My question is about tidal power. I represent a Welsh constituency, Monmouthshire. We have the River Severn in the south of the constituency, which is a tidal river, and we have the Celtic sea. What opportunities will the Bill give to generate more tidal power?

Dan McGrail: The Bill allows space for GB Energy to take quite an activist role in the sector. I am aware of tidal power companies that are already very keen to engage with GB Energy on specific proposals. One thing about tidal power is that we have seen the success of many projects through the CfD auctions. We need to see them come to investment decisions. The more we can see a state actor enabling companies to take decisions, the more it will help to scale up the industry and then the technologies. From the technologies, we can hopefully deliver the kind of supply chain growth and jobs in local communities to which we all aspire.

[Perran Moon]

Q Clause 5(1) requires the Secretary of State to

“prepare a statement of strategic priorities”.

I have been listening carefully to the priorities on skills and innovation from your perspective. Let me ask you both: if you were Secretary of State, what would be your key strategic priorities be for the Bill?

Adam Berman: The first is public value, which goes beyond the ability of GB Energy to create profits and return them to energy bills or whatever mechanism it might come up with. That is not to say that that is not important, but if this is new money—a significant amount of new capital—being made available by the Treasury, it is about how we, as a society and as an economy, can get the most out of those investments. So I would say public value, which is about not just financial returns but broader public benefits.

Secondly, it is about spreading economic activity and about how that links into the industrial strategy. That might be for the supply chain and also for GB Energy, but we should think not just about particular technologies but about particular regions.

A third priority would be the delivery of the UK’s legal objectives—its legally binding climate commitments.

A fourth priority would be the delivery of the National Energy System Operator’s priorities, which links to the strategic spatial energy plan that we have already been talking about, and ensuring that it helps to foster a workable decarbonised power sector. For example, we could see solutions such as GB Energy putting investment into wind or solar in areas with higher constraint costs or lower population centres with higher land use costs, which are not as attractive to private investors at the moment, but which with GB Energy’s lower cost of capital may well still be a profitable enterprise. It is about how we can have a win-win with NESO’s objectives.

Finally, impact on investment cannot be ignored. I recognise that it is not the Government’s intention at all that there be an impact on private sector investment, but we need to ensure, as a founding principle, that there is not a risk that any GB Energy investment could deter or crowd out private sector investment.

Dan McGrail: I would add one thing to that very good summary. There are a number of new institutions being set up at the same time—NESO, mission control, GB Energy. There are also a number of big initiatives such as strategic spatial energy plans and centralised network planning. It would be very helpful for the sector and for industry to understand the interaction of those with the national wealth fund. I almost see an organogram in my mind of how things flow. In my conversations with the sector, there have been questions about where the limit of GB Energy ends and where the National Wealth Fund begins, and so on and so forth. It would be enormously helpful for the sector and for other institutions such as the Scottish National Investment Bank and UKIB to understand how they fit within that matrix.

[The Chair]

If there are no further questions from Members, may I thank the witnesses for their evidence?

That brings us to the end of our morning sitting. We have had four panels with eight witnesses—thanks, everyone. The Committee will meet again in this Committee Room at 2 o’clock, when I will have turned into Sir Roger Gale.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. (Anna Turley.)