Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Money)

Nusrat Ghani Excerpts

Money resolution
Wednesday 22nd January 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

I beg to move,

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:

(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Secretary of State, and

(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under or by virtue of any other Act out of money so provided.

The Government are of the view that the Bill is a matter for Parliament rather than the Government to decide. In order for the Public Bill Committee that is now scrutinising the Bill to consider the clause that would have spending implications, the Government must first table this money resolution. This is purely to allow the Bill to be debated in Committee, and the Government have taken the view that tabling this motion does not act against our commitment to remain neutral. Only the Government can table such motions, so tabling it allows further debate to happen. To assist that debate, the Government will also assess the impacts of the Bill, and we expect to publish the impact assessment before MPs consider the Bill on Report.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister, Dr Kieran Mullan.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Members should keep their contributions within scope. This is about the financial implications of the Bill if it is passed, so let us keep contributions within scope.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

To ensure that as many colleagues as possible can get in during the time allowed, there will be a speaking limit of four minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Brian Mathew (Melksham and Devizes) (LD)]

Let me start by saying that I am in in favour of the motion, so I will vote for it, if it comes to that. However, would the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) and the Minister consider the inclusion of two social workers on the group, made up of two GPs and a High Court judge, that assesses requests for assisted dying?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Your contribution has to be within the scope of what we are discussing, which is the financial organisation of the Bill.

[Brian Mathew]

I was making a point about the added expense.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

You need to get to that point very quickly.

[Brian Mathew]

There would be added expense. Social workers are trained in understanding family dynamics, and need desperately to be involved in these situations.

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[Liz Saville Roberts]

Let us imagine what the public would make of our role in this place if this legislation were to fall at this point.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. We are going to drop the speech limit to three minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Allister]

I would be happy to do so in a moment.

It is quite clear that the measures will impose huge costs on the health and justice budgets. Given the provisions in the Bill, is it impossible for that not to be the consequence, so when the Treasury Minister produces the financial information, will he include current Government expenditure on palliative care and suicide prevention, so that we can look at and balance what we are spending? The Bill invites the Government to move from funding charities to prevent suicide to becoming facilitators and providers of suicide.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. Mr Allister, we must confine our remarks to the money resolution for the Bill.

[Jim Allister]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I was seeking to do that by asking the Treasury Minister to give us a comparison. What is this Bill going to cost our health service and justice system? How does that compare with what we are already spending on palliative care and suicide prevention? Those are pertinent questions and we need the answers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Allister]

I agree. We all have our views on the merits of the Bill, but fundamentally we have a duty to our constituents to handle public money properly. In handling that money, we must know how much the Bill will cost. When it comes to that financial statement, it must not be fudged or opaque; it must be absolutely clear and it must—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. I must now call the Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The right hon. Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) made a comment that I feel impinged upon my integrity. I have spoken to the right hon. Gentleman and he knows what I am referring to. I underlined and highlighted that the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill Committee went into private session; some 15 Members, who support the Bill, voted for the private session and nine Members, who oppose the Bill, voted against the private session. The record must be corrected about what the right hon. Gentleman said about the comments I made about that. Facts are facts; they matter to me, as does my integrity.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Thank you, Mr Shannon, for letting me know you would be making a point of order. The Chair is not responsible for the content of Member’s speeches, but I remind the House of the advice in Erskine May on the importance of good temper and moderation in parliamentary language.

[Kit Malthouse]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. There was no intent in my remarks to undermine the integrity of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I may have misunderstood his remarks, but he implied that the Committee was adopting some kind of veil of secrecy over our affairs and I was pointing out to him that, in my view, that was a misunderstanding of what we were attempting to do yesterday. I am sorry if the hon. Gentleman was offended, as he knows I hold him in great affection and I had no intention to do so.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Thank you, Mr Malthouse. I can see Mr Shannon nodding, so hopefully your apology has been accepted.