Daylight Saving Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Friday 20th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the claim that the provisions would “make the nation happier”. As a result of information that I received from Portugal, it occurred to me yesterday that a measure of happiness might be a country’s divorce rate. So I got my researchers, Christopher Mullins-Silverstein and Xavier Solano, to approach the House of Commons Library and ask for the UK’s divorce rate figures during the trial period from 1968 to 1970. There was a small but significant spike in the divorce rate, which fell back down again after the trial period was over. I am not sure whether the divorce rate is an indicator of happiness—I suppose it could be argued either way—but it certainly went up at that time. Perhaps the morning irritability that I have mentioned was present at the breakfast tables of the United Kingdom, and perhaps it tipped a few people over—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I hate to interfere with the hon. Gentleman’s pursuit of happiness, but I think that we have got the gist of his argument. We understand that he is against the Bill, but I wonder which amendment he is speaking to at the moment.

[Mr MacNeil]

I am speaking to amendment 17, Mr Deputy Speaker. I think it important to set the context of the amendment, and that is what I am doing. Claims are made on one side and claims are made on the other, but I am a reasonable, generous and conciliatory man—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I thank my colleagues for that. I am prepared to inconvenience myself and give a little. I do not have an “all or nothing” mindset, and I have warned the Lighter Later supporters from the outset that if they take an “all or nothing” approach, they are likely to end up getting nothing. The olive branch is still extended.

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[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Will you rule on whether the word—if I may utter it myself—“flipping” is parliamentary?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Do you know, I think that that word is on the cusp—a bit. It offended me, a little, but I must say that in the heat of the moment I have heard a lot worse in this place.

[Mr MacNeil]

If the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who advocated European harmonisation earlier, curbs his enthusiasm and goes to the ROSPA website, he will find that the month of November is the most dangerous month. It is by studying what ROSPA says that I have introduced the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr MacNeil]

While our debate has continued, another issue that I had not considered has been brought to my attention—that the provisions are anti-working mothers. A woman, Mrs Marybell Galbraith, who lived in Glasgow with her children in the ’60s, e-mailed me to say:

“My children and myself suffered from this”—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We are supposed to be debating the amendment tabled by Mr Philip Davies, which has nothing to do with the point that the hon. Gentleman is trying to make.

[Philip Davies]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will press on, as I am sure you and others would wish me to do.

If the intention of my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point and the Minister is to get agreement from Scotland and Wales before a trial goes ahead, I fail to see any possible objection to making that clear in the Bill. The Minister said that he had made progress with the Bill in a way that maximised consensus. As far as I can see, consensus can win out. All it needs is for my hon. Friend and the Minister to say that they will accept my amendment so that

“agreement from the Scottish First Minister and the First Minister of Wales”

is obtained before a trial goes ahead. At that point, I can sit down and allow the Bill to progress. I see no reason why this should be a stumbling block, given that my amendment proposes the intention of my hon. Friend and the Minister in any case.

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[Mr Reid]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am happy to accept the reassurances that the Minister gave me during the debate, and I would therefore like to beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is unable to do that. We are now voting on whether the question be now put, and if the decision of the House is that the question be now put, that is what I will do. If the question is negatived, the hon. Gentleman might have an opportunity later in the debate to withdraw his amendment.

There seems to be some delay in the No Lobby. I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate it.

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The House proceeded to a Division.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Davies]

I beg to move amendment 44, page 4, line 4, leave out paragraph (b).

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 73, page 4, line 6, leave out paragraph (c).

Amendment 74, page 4, line 8, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 75, page 4, line 12, leave out subsection (3).

Amendment 46, page 4, line 12, leave out ‘negative’ and insert ‘the affirmative’.

Amendment 48, page 4, line 23, leave out clause 11.

Amendment 9, in clause 11, page 4, line 24, leave out ‘during’ and insert

‘up to three years after’.

Amendment 20,  page 4, line 28, after ‘Ireland’, insert

‘the Scottish Ministers and the Welsh Ministers’.

Amendment 21,  page 4, line 29, leave out paragraph (b).

Amendment 51,  page 4, line 29, leave out from ‘must’ to end and insert

‘obtain agreement from the Scottish First Minister and the First Minister of Wales.’.

Amendment 15,  page 4, line 29, at end insert—

‘(2A) The Secretary of State may not make an order under this section unless resolutions supporting the order have been passed by the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.’.

[Philip Davies]

I will try again with this group to persuade my hon. Friends of the merits of the amendments, the purpose of which is not to damage the Bill or prevent it from progressing, but to strengthen it. Lest anyone be in any doubt, some of the amendments in this group are similar to amendments in the previous group. I should make it clear that, as with the previous amendment that we have just voted on, if any of my amendments in this group were accepted at this late stage, I would be happy to support the Bill enthusiastically, because my amendments would, without doubt, strengthen the Bill. However, we have to deal with the Bill as it is and not base our decisions on the assurances that we have received from the Minister.

Amendment 44 would delete clause 9(1)(b). The clause relates to the end of the trial, and I have to say in passing that there seems to be a slight contradiction in the wording of the Bill—it may well just be a legalistic point. The clause is entitled “The end of the trial”, but the first sentence beneath the title states:

“The Secretary of State must, during the trial period, do one of the following”.

I was slightly confused about that, because it seems to give the Secretary of State the power to do one of the things listed at any point in the trial period, not just at the end as suggested by the clause title. Perhaps the Minister might be able to explain why that is the case.

Clause 9(1) states that the Secretary of State must do one of the things listed. The first is to make an order to abandon the trial—that makes sense. The second, in paragraph (b), is to make an order during the trial period to advance the time by one hour permanently. Given that the Bill regrettably does not contain the safeguards that I and other hon. Members sought in the previous group of amendments, I wish through amendment 44 to prevent the Secretary of State from making such an order. I do not believe that is appropriate without the safeguards that we have discussed previously, which I will discuss again under this group of amendments.

Amendment 46 relates to clause 9(3), which states:

“An order under subsection (2) is subject to negative resolution procedure.”

All the way through the Bill I have been pleased to see that each provision is subject to the affirmative procedure, but clause 9 appears to me to be the only part of the Bill that is subject to the negative procedure. The amendment is merely intended to change that to the affirmative procedure, which is standard in the rest of the Bill. Given that that procedure has been happily accepted in all other parts of the Bill, I would like to think that the House would be very happy to see it applied to clause 9 too.

The other amendments in this group that relate to clause 9 are amendments 73 to 75, which were tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). I am sure that we all look forward to him speaking at great length about why he introduced them. It seems to me—I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong—that amendment 73 would simply delete clause 9(1)(c). He may well be able to explain why he felt that was so important.

Amendment 74 would delete clause 9(2). I must say that as ever, my hon. Friend was far more alert than me in seeking to do so. It appears to give the Secretary of State wide-ranging powers without any great safeguards. I suspect that is why he has sought to delete that subsection, but of course he may well have had better reasons than that. I am sure he will be able to tell us what they were.

Amendment 75 would delete clause 9(3), which is the subsection setting out that the clause is subject to the negative resolution procedure. My hon. Friend may well have wanted it deleted because he, too, was unhappy with that. I would like to think that my amendment 46 would make his amendment 75 redundant.